Re: The ethics of having a second child (long and deep)

[Guest guest]

My two oldest are technically NT (whatever that is, LOL), and my two youngest

are the ones who show /autism characterisics. The most severe is my

oldest boy. He just started talking (functionally) a bit over a year ago.

(He'll

be nine in Sept.)

I'm with the other mom who said she believes everything happens for a reason.

I'm delighted with my children, as God gave them to me, BUT....that doesn't

mean I won't do everything I can to maximize their potential...as I would for

any of my children, NT or not. So, I guess I'm saying that accepting

/autism is a far cry from giving in to it.

It's a deeply personal decision. I am fortunate that I have been able to

make my children my life. And I guess that's my point. You have to consider

your

personal circumstances, level of tolerance, and fundamental philopsophical

beliefs about why /autism has manifested in so many children.

But then, if someone came up and waved a wand and said I'll make your kids

perfectly normal....yikes, normal is so boring LOL. And, my kids are older now.

Time does change us. I can't believe how much.

Liane Gentry Skye, author

Turn Around, Bright Eyes

coming soon: The Mother's Mafia, A Low Country Yarn of Somewhat Assisted

Divine Retribution

[Guest guest]

Becky,

I've been thinking of similar things myself. My only child turned five last

month and he has been with Dr. G. since October.

Both my husband's and my family have immune system disorders.

As for my pregnancy... I'd always been a big dairy person. My craving during

the summer months was chocolate milk and watermelon- at the same time! Plus I

had UTIs every month so I was on antibiotics regularly. Ammon reacted to the

HepB vaccine given in the hospital and he developed an " unknown viral infection "

at three days old and was hospitalized for several days. He had a low sucking

reflex and wouldn't breast feed (but I wasn't real comfortable with it- the

" " in me, I'm sure) so I gave him the regular cow's milk formula w/iron.

Like your son, Ammon had roseola when he was about 6 months old and many ear

infections. Speech didn't properly develop, he started limiting his food intake

about 1.5 years old, etc- you all know the story.

I'd been wanting a second child about the time Ammon was two. I knew there was

something different about him, but the local ped thought it was just because he

was an only child and told me to get him into play groups and around other kids.

So I decided I'd wait until Ammon was potty trained before adding another baby

to the mix. (I'm still waiting for Ammon to be potty trained! Ha ha!)

And then at the three year check-up the doctor said what I'd been telling her

all along- there is something wrong with him. " Take him to a neurologist. " So

we went through all the " stuff " that the professionals do to make it look like

they know exactly what's going on with your precious child.

Thankfully I started researching myself and declined the medical opinion of the

neurologist and his drug pushing and turned up nose to dietary changes.

I studied " " and followed this group for almost half a year before deciding

to make an appointment. That's now another " coulda-woulda-shoulda " : I SHOULD

have made the appointment sooner. But I can dismiss that thought (see below.)

Anyway... it boils down to two main truths in my life...

Warning: this is my belief system and I know not everyone will agree.

#1- Everything (whether good or bad) happens for a reason and at a certain time.

#2- The Lord knows my limits and will not give me anything I cannot handle.

Many positives have happened since learning about Ammon's condition... they

outweigh the stress and " negatives. "

Now I'm confident in my basic understanding and the preventative practices to

try for another child. Of course, I still ask and worry about the nitty-gritty

things, but that's part of OCD/anxiety.

And if it happens that I have another kid I know it'll most likely be

easier the next time around (knowing the sings, and what to do, etc) and that

the child is here for a purpose.

I've had this mind-set for about a year.

Still no baby.

When time and circumstances are right, I'm sure that opportunity will become a

reality. I'm just thankful someone else knows better than I do. And I trust

His decisions.

- in AL

Reality lies beyond the horizon...

Wonderwegian

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

opinion of the Research Institute.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Guest guest]

Becky~~

You sound like such a thoughtful mom. Thank you for sharing your query with

us. My son with nids/autism is the youngest of my three children. The others

are relatively NT (the first suffers from ADHD). My husband and I laugh saying,

" what would the next one be...an alien? " I guess it's humor that only " special "

mom's can understand. As I'm getting a bit older and really reaching towards

those non-child bearing years, I can only say to trust your heart. I do have a

friend who has an NT daughter being the oldest and two following children with

autism (the first being moderately autistic, the second just slightly). But

with all the knowlede you have, you will make the right decision.

Good Luck~~

Rose

The ethics of having a second child (long and deep)

Hello everyone,

I've been writing this post in my head for the last few months, and

now that I have the house to myself for once, I can finally get it out!

We have been thinking about having a second child. just turned 3

last month, so if we're going to do it, now would be the best time for us.

It is brutally obvious to me (by how many parents I talk to online) that

autism (or , or developmental disorders, or whatever you'd like to call it)

is in some way often genetic or a by-product of something going on with the

mother during pregnancy. There's just too many families with more than 1 child

affected for it to be a coincidence.

Having said that, what business do I have in having a second child?? I

desperately want to, but I'm petrified and loaded with guilt. I don't want

to be an only child. Both my husband and I are, and I hate not having any

siblings. My son is doing really well, was high-functioning before we even

started with Dr. G (never qualified for an autism dx) but is certainly not

" normal " . Our second child could be absolutely fine, or could be much more

severely affected. I realize that no one is guaranteed a perfect child, but I

feel the odds are already stacked against us.

It seems when I read posts from families who have one affected child and

one 'normal' child, the affected child is the youngest. Could this be due to

some change in the mother's health status in between pregnancies? Since

is my first, would I have even higher odds of my second child being affected?

I would love to hear from any of you that have more than one child-- esp.

if you are in my situation, where your 1st was , and to hear how any

subsequent kiddos are doing. I know Dr. G. reccomends staying away from dairy,

whole grains, and other allergens during pregnancy. Is there anything else you

can do, during the pregnance and after?? I had a perfectly wonderful pregnancy

with , but my prenatal diet was honestly about 50% dairy products and about

20% orange juice. Those are now the 2 foods he reacts most severely to, go

figure. was affected from birth with food intolerances and sensory issues,

then went downhill dramatically at about 10-12 mos after having roseola at 9

mos. and starting the nonstop ear infection/amoxicillin cycle which lasted a

year.

Thanks for letting me do some soul-searching in public

This is a huge decision and I don't want to just jump into anything without

giving it as much thought as possible. I don't want to live with the guilt that

I consciously chose to bring a child into the world who has to suffer with

(simply out of my own selfish desire to have another baby) when I could have

adopted one who needs a home. If we do decide to have another and he/she has

, we would obviously be prepared, but I'd at least like to know that I

examined both sides of the coin. I also need to realistically think about how my

life would be with 2 kiddos-- 2 sets of SLP appts, 2 sets of meds, 2 sets

of IEPs, spending the rest of my adult life mixing up Dari-Free...... LOL.

Feel free to email me at beckeric@... if you'd rather post

privately.

Thank you so much for your honest thoughts,

Becky

**************************************

Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

opinion of the Research Institute.

[Guest guest]

Becky,

My wife and I found out she was pregnant with our 2nd in 3/02, four

months before my son was diagnosed with PDD in 7/02, at 18.5

months. y, I don't think I would have had the courage to have

a second child if she wasn't yet pregnant when our son was diagnosed.

That being said, we are following Dr. Goldberg's preventive protocol

to the letter -- and have been since about 3-4 months before our

daughter was born. My almost-nine-month-old daughter is now ahead

of schedule in all developmental areas, with excellent blood results

when we recently had her eosinophils checked just to be sure she

wasn't showing any hidden signs of a problematic immune system.

Nevertheless, I must confess that I suffer from a severe case of

PTND ( " Post-Traumatic Disorder " ) and have made myself sick with

worry when she does something minor, such as fails to respond to her

name when she is busy exploring her new world.

Here's one tip we follow that goes a little above and beyond Dr.

Goldberg's recommendations: Our daughter has been on formula since

she was about 9 weeks old. (My wife tried to nurse her, but she

just preferred the bottle and was losing too much weight.) We have

used Nutramgen exclusively. It is quite expensive (the pre-mixed

cans are almost $8 for 32 oz), but I view it as a small insurance

policy for the 1st year of her life since it is one of the least

allergenic formulas out there.

[Guest guest]

Hi Becky. I admire your courage in sharing your feelings about having another

child. I'm a mom who lost her first child at 36 weeks, and whose other two

children, a boy and a girl, are both kids. For a long period of time I

wondered what in the world had I done to deserve this. Guess we all have at one

time or another, huh? Then I found 29:11, and the part where God says,

" And I know the plans I have for you. Plans to prosper you and not to harm you,

plans to give you hope and a future. " hit home with me. God's got this all

mapped out. He planned for me to have these two beautiful kids and for Brent

and me to enjoy and rejoice over every single small triumph they make. Having

another child is a tough decision on your part. I can only tell you that my

prayers will be with you. This road to recovery with our kids is extremely

tough, but isn't it great that we have comrades in our journey? Take care and

God bless. Shona

> Date: 2003/08/22 Fri PM 10:07:10 EDT

> < >

> Subject: The ethics of having a second child (long and deep)

[Guest guest]

Anyone that has info please jump in on these questions:

-

Is there a reason you use the pre-mixed cans as opposed to the powder formula?

I've often wondered about the powder not mixing properly in the water when done

at home, but never heard the pro v. cons between powder and liquid beyond the

price (powder) and convenience (liquid.)

Caroline-

Is the peanut butter bad even if no one in the family has nut allergies?

Also, what about tomatoes while pregnant? I've given up cheese and might have

nix pb... please leave me some salsa! :0)

Thanks!

-

Reality lies beyond the horizon...

Wonderwegian

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

opinion of the Research Institute.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Guest guest]

Hi Becky

Just my story. I DO know exactly how you feel! I however, didn't get the

diagnosis on my first son until I already had my second son so in my case

there, ignorance was bliss! We had been in the process at the time, of me

starting on my folic acid etc. for 3 months prior to trying to fall pregnant

with our third which I was hoping would be a girl after our two boys. We

made the decision though that we would still try for a third at a later time

as basically " what would be the chances of it happening again " - we had not

at this stage had any access to the internet so did not know about he

statistics of autism and still thought it was a really rare thing! We knew

though, that the timing was not right to go ahead as we had a big job ahead

of us starting our ABA home programme (we didn't actually realise what a big

job it was though until we were in it!!!)

My second son was diagnosed only 3 months after my first as I recognised

the signs having just read so many books on autism once my first son was

diagnosed. This put the nail in the coffin for us as far as trying for a

third child!! However, several years later after finishing both our home

programmes and both our children recovering I just couldn't get over the

emptiness and loss I felt at not having the chance to try for " that girl "

and also to know what it was like to raise a typical child. Friends told

me I was mad, selfish and all sorts of things but it just wouldn't go away!

After a lot of soul searching, reading and praying we decided we would have

a third child. We honestly believed this time it would be okay because of

the extra things we were doing but also felt prepared that if it happened

again, we knew what to do and we would just have to " do it again!! " .

We both went to see a naturopath who treated us for 3 months prior to us

trying (just boosting up vitamins etc. took some remedies to clean up

toxins/vaccines etc.) that sort of thing and also took the Efanatal (fish

oils specally for pregnanacy). I didn't modify my diet as I could only find

one article which recommended that and many others which said they didn't

agree and for me, no milk and bread would have been torture - I would

however, have done it if I could have found more than one article at the

time! - lucky I didn't! so I just kept up on the vitamins and fish oil as

recommended by the naturopath. Once our third son was born I kept up the

fish oils whilst breastfeeding. If I had not been able to feed myself I

would have put it into his bottles but I persevered and was able to feed

until he weened himself at twelve months. I also had him on a

gluten/dairy/soy free diet, just in case and as I had one at home on it

anyway it didn't cause us any drama and I figured even if things did go

wrong down the end, I wouldn't have the hassles I had had with my first

changing over to the diet because he wouldn't have known anything different!

We also did not give him any vaccines at all. This was the hardest part. I

was so paranoid but we just felt that we would not forgive ourselves if we

vaccinated him and it happened again. I also would probably not have

forgiven myself if he had caught anything either! Because of this we did

not put him in any creches etc. and did not start him at playgroup until his

was nearly two.

Anyhow, he is about to turn 4 and is just perfect. Not the little girl I

was hoping for but I wouldn't swap him for the world. We feel totally

blessed and it has been so wonderful to have had the chance to raise a child

" the normal way " and it's made us realise all the more what an outstanding

achievement our other sons have made to have overcome the obstacles that

were in their paths. The elder boys just love him so much and he has put

such a different dynamic to our family that I just couldn't imagine it any

other way.

My personal feeling Becky is that you deserve to have another child and

deserves to have a sibling. You just have to take a few more

precautions than some one who hasn't had autism in their family.

The ethics of having a second child (long and deep)

Hello everyone,

I've been writing this post in my head for the last few months, and

now that I have the house to myself for once, I can finally get it out!

We have been thinking about having a second child. just turned 3

last month, so if we're going to do it, now would be the best time for us.

It is brutally obvious to me (by how many parents I talk to online) that

autism (or , or developmental disorders, or whatever you'd like to call

it) is in some way often genetic or a by-product of something going on with

the mother during pregnancy. There's just too many families with more than 1

child affected for it to be a coincidence.

Having said that, what business do I have in having a second child?? I

desperately want to, but I'm petrified and loaded with guilt. I don't want

to be an only child. Both my husband and I are, and I hate not having

any siblings. My son is doing really well, was high-functioning before we

even started with Dr. G (never qualified for an autism dx) but is certainly

not " normal " . Our second child could be absolutely fine, or could be much

more severely affected. I realize that no one is guaranteed a perfect

child, but I feel the odds are already stacked against us.

It seems when I read posts from families who have one affected child and

one 'normal' child, the affected child is the youngest. Could this be due

to some change in the mother's health status in between pregnancies? Since

is my first, would I have even higher odds of my second child being

affected?

I would love to hear from any of you that have more than one child-- esp.

if you are in my situation, where your 1st was , and to hear how any

subsequent kiddos are doing. I know Dr. G. reccomends staying away from

dairy, whole grains, and other allergens during pregnancy. Is there

anything else you can do, during the pregnance and after?? I had a

perfectly wonderful pregnancy with , but my prenatal diet was honestly

about 50% dairy products and about 20% orange juice. Those are now the 2

foods he reacts most severely to, go figure. was affected from birth

with food intolerances and sensory issues, then went downhill dramatically

at about 10-12 mos after having roseola at 9 mos. and starting the nonstop

ear infection/amoxicillin cycle which lasted a year.

Thanks for letting me do some soul-searching in public

This is a huge decision and I don't want to just jump into anything without

giving it as much thought as possible. I don't want to live with the guilt

that I consciously chose to bring a child into the world who has to suffer

with (simply out of my own selfish desire to have another baby) when I

could have adopted one who needs a home. If we do decide to have another and

he/she has , we would obviously be prepared, but I'd at least like to

know that I examined both sides of the coin. I also need to realistically

think about how my life would be with 2 kiddos-- 2 sets of SLP appts, 2

sets of meds, 2 sets of IEPs, spending the rest of my adult life mixing up

Dari-Free...... LOL.

Feel free to email me at beckeric@... if you'd rather post

privately.

Thank you so much for your honest thoughts,

Becky

______________________________

``````````````````````````````

Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

opinion of the Research Institute.

``````````````````````````````````````

[Guest guest]

Becky,

Sounds like your son's NiDS onset was similar to ours. He turned 8 in June.

His little sister turned 5 last week - she is fine. Today they had an

argument about how to spell " happy " as in Birthday as my daughter's little

girlfriend didn't get the second 'p' right on her card - it looked more like

a big " i " . He proved his point by spelling it out and then pointed to the

" happy birthday decorations still hanging in the house!

She was born before we had a real dx on our son, and no precautions were

taken with pre-natal diet etc, and none with post. The only thing we did

after our son was DX and we starred - he was over 4 by this time and

she had had her first round of shots, was to delay the MMR until she was

over 2.

Because you know what you are dealing with, you can check a new born's

immune system status, you can delay vaccinations, you can work diet - I

believe Dr Goldberg has good advice for mum's to be.

Because her language is now so highly developed, it really pushes her

brother - it is a very interesting time - especially when he starts to tease

her as big brothers do - he loves the reactions!!

best

The ethics of having a second child (long and deep)

Hello everyone,

I've been writing this post in my head for the last few months, and

now that I have the house to myself for once, I can finally get it out!

We have been thinking about having a second child. just turned 3

last month, so if we're going to do it, now would be the best time for us.

=== message truncated ===

______________________________

``````````````````````````````

Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

opinion of the Research Institute.

[Guest guest]

Since we're talking ideologies, does anyone else beileve that things just

happen? I mean, it's all well and good that I learn whatever lessons I need to

from life, but watching my son physically and mentally struggle each

day...what's the lesson for him?

Just thinking out loud~~

Rose

Re: The ethics of having a second child (long and deep)

My two oldest are technically NT (whatever that is, LOL), and my two youngest

are the ones who show /autism characterisics. The most severe is my

oldest boy. He just started talking (functionally) a bit over a year ago.

(He'll

be nine in Sept.)

I'm with the other mom who said she believes everything happens for a reason.

I'm delighted with my children, as God gave them to me, BUT....that doesn't

mean I won't do everything I can to maximize their potential...as I would for

any of my children, NT or not. So, I guess I'm saying that accepting

/autism is a far cry from giving in to it.

It's a deeply personal decision. I am fortunate that I have been able to

make my children my life. And I guess that's my point. You have to consider

your

personal circumstances, level of tolerance, and fundamental philopsophical

beliefs about why /autism has manifested in so many children.

But then, if someone came up and waved a wand and said I'll make your kids

perfectly normal....yikes, normal is so boring LOL. And, my kids are older

now.

Time does change us. I can't believe how much.

Liane Gentry Skye, author

Turn Around, Bright Eyes

coming soon: The Mother's Mafia, A Low Country Yarn of Somewhat Assisted

Divine Retribution

_____________________________

`````````````````````````````

Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

opinion of the Research Institute.

[Guest guest]

Good for you .

Rose

PS~~Who would ever tell you that you were selfish?

Re: The ethics of having a second child (long and deep)

Hi Becky

Just my story. I DO know exactly how you feel! I however, didn't get the

diagnosis on my first son until I already had my second son so in my case

there, ignorance was bliss! We had been in the process at the time, of me

starting on my folic acid etc. for 3 months prior to trying to fall pregnant

with our third which I was hoping would be a girl after our two boys. We

made the decision though that we would still try for a third at a later time

as basically " what would be the chances of it happening again "

//message truncated due to space allocations//

______________________________

``````````````````````````````

Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

opinion of the Research Institute.

``````````````````````````````````````

[Guest guest]

Becky,

I can completely understand where you are coming from. Unfortunately, our

situation was a little different. I was 8 months pregnant with my second child

when we were told our son was autistic (almost 2 at the time). The matter was

taken out of our hands because I was due in a month. We had a perfectly healthy

daughter and she is now almost 2 herself. She is bright, social, fun and a

total joy. As parents, we watched everything, waiting for the smallest hint of

'autism' to be displayed in our daughter. But, so far so good. She is the

exact opposit of our son in health. My son had constant ear infections, poor

immune health, etc. My daughter has had two colds, easily rectified, nothing

else. She can eat anything. My son reacts to foods easily. When we found a new

pediatrician the differences in them both was really brought home to me. It

took me almost an hour to fill out my sons pre-health questionnaire. It took me

5 minutes to do my daughters.

But, I can understand what a predicament you are in. My husband and I are

starting to talk about having a third child. We are just as torn. We know that

autism runs in families, we know plenty that have multiple children, if not all

children that have autism. We know we would be rolling the dice. We don't know

if it is fair to our two children, or to the child, to risk it. We feel selfish

for even thinking of it, but I also look at the benefit. Our daughter could

have a playmate that she could interact with on the same level. Our son (the

oldest) would be able to learn from another child, especially in seeing their

social interaction. But, it is a see-saw. We think it's a good idea, that we

think it is a bad idea. We can't seem to make a decision. We are facing just

the same amount of guilt about it as you.

Good luck in your decision.

Zoeann

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

the original author, and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

opinion of the Research Institute.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~