Hand Flapping

[Guest guest]

Hi

Is there any link between biotin deficiency, jaundice and seizures? Jo-anne

has seizures every 17 days (about 4 fairly major types) and during the

preceding week we see plenty off bizarre behaviour with lots of visual

stims. Also her feet become red and bruised looking and she appears to be in

terrible pain.

Any help. She has been chelated and has been treated several times for yeast

etc etc.

Jacqui

Re: [ ] hand flapping

,

I had a question for you about the finger gazing and maybe the flapping,

but it was precipitated today because I had a visual aura-styled migraine

which I might have brought upon myself by taking too mach pantothenic acid

for my own good!

This dropout of vision began this morning while I was reading, and at

first, it was a bit subtle, but some letters just lost their impact, but

they were still there, but just harder to read, so I think the areas

affected were quite smaller than the size of a letter. Gradually, I had

much bigger pieces of my vision drop out, more like the size of a pencil,

with some movement. I've heard some people describe flashing lights, but

mine rarely have such glitz.

I suppose it was from discussions of biotin that I was thinking about how

some people with autism get migraines and my aura headaches create a lot of

visual disturbance, but hardly any pain worth noticing. (On the other hand,

my non-aura headaches which I do get regularly are so painful, that

head-banging might seem to a child like a reasonable way to lessen the

pain....)

Anway, , I was wondering if there was any chance the finger play or

hand stimming might be a way to look at the migraine aura in a special

way. For instance, if you moved your hand across the area where some

vision had dropped out it might be interesting to see your finger disappear

and then reappear. These episodes for me last fifteen or twenty minutes at

most, and then may not come back for a long, long time (years, sometimes).

Another thing that made me think of this was that I know a lady with

schizophrenia who says the medication her doctors put her on make " spots "

in her field of vision. I have never quite understood her explanation of

what that really looks like to her. It is so annoying to her that she

usually does not stay on her medication once she is out of the

hospital. She has described the same phenomenon with ten years at least

intervening, so I think it really must be a real change, and the same

change. By the way, the medication she was put on recently (valproic acid)

really does depress biotin!

Anyway, think about this while you watch your son and see if he might be

fascinated with the interplay of something like a visual aura (which he

cannot control) mixed with the movement which he can control....

And parents, among yourselves, why don't you compare any medications your

children are on with whether or not they begin to have these strange

behaviors. I would include ALA in that list, as it is known to depress

biotin just like some antipsychotics. Also, apparently certain fatty acids

can have effects on the biotin chemistry...MCT's particularly.

(thinking of these sorts of things since long ago when I heard Dr.

Wakefield say that the kids who were cleaned out at the Royal Free often

stopped toe-walking...so that maybe the toe walking was a posture that kept

the pain down, and it was deemed a " behavior " ...)

At 01:44 AM 9/8/2003 +0000, you wrote:

>Hello all,

>For a short while now (2 weeks? maybe more? we've been away), our

>son's habit of flapping his right hand has re-emerged. He will flap

>with any excuse. And it is to the point of really standing out.

>I've even noted some finger gazing, which we haven't seen in a l-o-o-

>o-n-n-g-g time. Finger play was one of his mainstays for many

>years. It disappeared about a year ago, so I am particularly

>disheartened to see it re-emerge. Also, loads of self-chat.

>I increased his Vit. A this week, in hopes of decreasing some of the

>weird eye movements of late (yes, it helped in this regard, also in

>mood(?!) which was very surprising but nice). Also, note that finger

>gazing is distinct from weird eye movements.

>He is on the recommended doses of A, B-complex, C, E, Omega3-6,

>CoQ10. Plus CitraminII, and Houston Enzymes. He has done well on

>all for a long time. The only recent changes have been: Omegas, from

>NOW 3-6-9 blend to ProOmega 3-6; and completed 4th round of ALA about

>3 weeks ago. Both changes occurred at the same time.

>Any ideas?

>Many thanks,

>

>

>

>=======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

My daughter hand flapped when she got over excited. I got her to stop by

saying this simple sentence... " No flapping, Just clapping " I would then take

her

hands and clap them and in my over acting way would say " Yeah!!! " It worked

really well for us. The other thing we broke with her was when she would get

frustrated she would want to claw you, every time I would take her hand, rub it

on my face and say " show mama gentle " she finally stopped.

Joni

[Guest guest]

Wow! It's kinda scary but your daughter sounds like

my son in the flapping when he's really excited or

wound up & he does have a tendency to want to

scratch/claw you when he doesn't like something. How

old is your daughter now & at what age did you start

implementing your clapping & face rubbing? Was she

verbal when you started & /or is she now? I really

appreciate your information. Makes me feel that I'm

not alone in this.

--- Jandjatindy@... wrote:

> My daughter hand flapped when she got over excited.

> I got her to stop by

> saying this simple sentence... " No flapping, Just

> clapping " I would then take her

> hands and clap them and in my over acting way would

> say " Yeah!!! " It worked

> really well for us. The other thing we broke with

> her was when she would get

> frustrated she would want to claw you, every time I

> would take her hand, rub it

> on my face and say " show mama gentle " she finally

> stopped.

> Joni

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

, She is now 17, but was a child who always had about 10 words until

age 3 when she stopped gaining any more until age 5. She always kept the 10

words though. She was very loving hugging and kissing family and friends. When

she

wanted to know what something new was, she would point to it and say " UH? " I

really think the clawing came from pure frustration at not being able to talk.

Although, by age 3, she could spell out sentences with her magnetic letters,

which we would spend hours on the floor doing with her because she would love

it so.

Joni

[Guest guest]

Joni-

Do you have any recommendations on things to try with

my son to help minimize the flapping? My guy is

nonverbal... he let's us know what he wants by pulling

us to what he wants or by giving us, say his cup when

he's thirsty. I'm interested in reducing the

flapping, but more interested in helping him speak.

It's just so hard to know what to do. He's 3 years

old.

Thanks-

--- Jandjatindy@... wrote:

> , She is now 17, but was a child who always

> had about 10 words until

> age 3 when she stopped gaining any more until age 5.

> She always kept the 10

> words though. She was very loving hugging and

> kissing family and friends. When she

> wanted to know what something new was, she would

> point to it and say " UH? " I

> really think the clawing came from pure frustration

> at not being able to talk.

> Although, by age 3, she could spell out sentences

> with her magnetic letters,

> which we would spend hours on the floor doing with

> her because she would love

> it so.

> Joni

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I hope it's ok to reply to your message. My son started talking last summer,

when he was 3+. He had his second set of ear tubes put in in June (which

helped clear his chronic fluid/infection problem), then in July we started

Pivotal Response Training (with a grad student I hired from UCSD) and he

started talking that week. PRT is a cross between Floortime and ABA and

focuses on language. Both UCSD and UCSB have programs (they jointly

developed it), so you could contact either one for more info, if you need

it. The # for UCSD is 858-534-6144 - http://psy.ucsd.edu/autism/. The

student worked with him for ~2 hours a day, 4-5 days a week at our home, and

it was the only therapy he was getting at the time.

Best of luck,

Kristy

Re: Hand Flapping

Joni-

Do you have any recommendations on things to try with

my son to help minimize the flapping? My guy is

nonverbal... he let's us know what he wants by pulling

us to what he wants or by giving us, say his cup when

he's thirsty. I'm interested in reducing the

flapping, but more interested in helping him speak.

It's just so hard to know what to do. He's 3 years

old.

Thanks-

--- Jandjatindy@... wrote:

> , She is now 17, but was a child who always

> had about 10 words until

> age 3 when she stopped gaining any more until age 5.

> She always kept the 10

> words though. She was very loving hugging and

> kissing family and friends. When she

> wanted to know what something new was, she would

> point to it and say " UH? " I

> really think the clawing came from pure frustration

> at not being able to talk.

> Although, by age 3, she could spell out sentences

> with her magnetic letters,

> which we would spend hours on the floor doing with

> her because she would love

> it so.

> Joni

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

, Sorry I didn't get back to you before, deleted the post and couldn't

remember your name. You had ask me what we did other than saying " no flapping,

just clapping " and clapping her hands. Against family advice of " if you do

that she will never talk " in 1990, we taught her sign language. It really helped

take the focus off everyone always looking at her mouth saying " say________. "

It also took away some frustration. She took off after that at around age 4.

To this day I will look at her in a crowded room and sign something and we

will both laugh!!

Joni

[Guest guest]

Hi. I am new here but I was excited to see you used sign language. My daughter

is 5 and non verbal except for maybe 30 words. Her doctor said to try signing

but the school system seems to be against it. I have taught her a few words and

the doc and I agree she is responding well to it. IAny advice on getting school

systems to agree with it or success stories pertaining to signing would help

me.You guys are a wealth of knowledge!

Jandjatindy@... wrote: , Sorry I didn't get back to you before,

deleted the post and couldn't

remember your name. You had ask me what we did other than saying " no flapping,

just clapping " and clapping her hands. Against family advice of " if you do

that she will never talk " in 1990, we taught her sign language. It really helped

take the focus off everyone always looking at her mouth saying " say________. "

It also took away some frustration. She took off after that at around age 4.

To this day I will look at her in a crowded room and sign something and we

will both laugh!!

Joni

[Guest guest]

My son also started talking like crazy around 4 or so.

Before that he had 3 words, but i knew he understood

so much more. To this day, he is very verbal but

quite a.d.d.

--- Jandjatindy@... wrote:

> , Sorry I didn't get back to you before,

> deleted the post and couldn't

> remember your name. You had ask me what we did other

> than saying " no flapping,

> just clapping " and clapping her hands. Against

> family advice of " if you do

> that she will never talk " in 1990, we taught her

> sign language. It really helped

> take the focus off everyone always looking at her

> mouth saying " say________. "

> It also took away some frustration. She took off

> after that at around age 4.

> To this day I will look at her in a crowded room and

> sign something and we

> will both laugh!!

> Joni

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

Barb Katsaros

barbkatsaros@...

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

What seemed to spark his talking? Did you do specific

therapies or what? Did some medication seem to help?

--- Barb Katsaros <barbkatsaros@...> wrote:

> My son also started talking like crazy around 4 or

> so.

> Before that he had 3 words, but i knew he

> understood

> so much more. To this day, he is very verbal but

> quite a.d.d.

>

> --- Jandjatindy@... wrote:

>

> > , Sorry I didn't get back to you before,

> > deleted the post and couldn't

> > remember your name. You had ask me what we did

> other

> > than saying " no flapping,

> > just clapping " and clapping her hands. Against

> > family advice of " if you do

> > that she will never talk " in 1990, we taught her

> > sign language. It really helped

> > take the focus off everyone always looking at her

> > mouth saying " say________. "

> > It also took away some frustration. She took off

> > after that at around age 4.

> > To this day I will look at her in a crowded room

> and

> > sign something and we

> > will both laugh!!

> > Joni

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

>

>

> Barb Katsaros

> barbkatsaros@...

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

When he was 2 1/2 i took him to dsc for an eval, and

he was approved for speech 2x per week, ot once, play

therapy once, and i also put him in a very good

preschool for 3 hours in the a.m. when he turned 3,

he was eligible for the school district preschool

program. they had a program which coordinated thru

headstart, so he actually got a whole day of a lot of

interaction, speech and ot. other than not talking,

he progressed quite well and on schedule. but he was

sick a lot. around 4 1/2 things started kicking in

for him neurologically. i think in his case, early

intervention was very helpful. i knew to do this,

because my older son had speech issues also, altho not

as bad. he received intervention more around 3 1/2.

we used no meds at the time. they have been with dr.

Goldberg now for 3 plus years, so they are on meds

now.

my youngest developed normally until he was 13 mos. or

so and then lost all language. he was very frustrated

and acted out quite a bit--anger fits and biting. we

never did sign language, but now when i look back, i

wish we had. it would have given him an avenue of

communication.

--- Curtis and Hackler <thehacks@...>

wrote:

> What seemed to spark his talking? Did you do

> specific

> therapies or what? Did some medication seem to

> help?

>

> --- Barb Katsaros <barbkatsaros@...> wrote:

>

> > My son also started talking like crazy around 4 or

> > so.

> > Before that he had 3 words, but i knew he

> > understood

> > so much more. To this day, he is very verbal but

> > quite a.d.d.

> >

> > --- Jandjatindy@... wrote:

> >

> > > , Sorry I didn't get back to you before,

> > > deleted the post and couldn't

> > > remember your name. You had ask me what we did

> > other

> > > than saying " no flapping,

> > > just clapping " and clapping her hands. Against

> > > family advice of " if you do

> > > that she will never talk " in 1990, we taught her

> > > sign language. It really helped

> > > take the focus off everyone always looking at

> her

> > > mouth saying " say________. "

> > > It also took away some frustration. She took off

> > > after that at around age 4.

> > > To this day I will look at her in a crowded room

> > and

> > > sign something and we

> > > will both laugh!!

> > > Joni

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > removed]

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > Barb Katsaros

> > barbkatsaros@...

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >