Re: Re: help with cortisol test resutls?

[Guest guest]

Adrenal failure......I am wondering if that is what I had a few years ago.

Can your body correct itself, or once you have failure that's it?

I could not get out of bed one morning. I was so extremely dizzy that I could

only lay on one side. (right)

My husband took me to the hospital. They pumped me full of Compazine

(which made me have a panic attack). I have NEVER felt so bad from

anything in my life. I wanted to crawl out of my skin. They tested my

sinuses (I could have told them that wasn't it). They could not find anything

wrong with me.

Now looking back, and now knowing I had untreated thyroid for at least two

years. I am wondering if I had some type of adrenal failure?

What's your thoughts on that?

LYNN

At 02:43 PM 10/14/2004, you wrote:

>Most cortisol tests are designed to find s disease or total

>adrenal failure. Therefore the ranges are quite broad. You could

>have a 24 hour cortisol test, which would be better than a one time

>one, but it wouldn't tell you anything you don't already know.

>

>A real simple home test is to take your blood pressure lying down

>and then stand up and take it. If your blood pressure drops when you

>stand then you do not have enough adrenal hormones. You can also

>shine a bright light in your eyes and the pupil should close down

>and stay that way. If after a minute or less, it opens back up

>dispite the light being there or if it flutters in an attempt to

>stay closed, you do not have enough adrenal hormone levels. Since

>adrenal output needs to be double in the morning from what afternoon

>levels are, you are more likely to test positive on this in the

>morning. Usually in mild adrenal fatigue, the adrenals muster up

>what is needed by afternoon and most adrenally fatigued start to

>feel better by afternoon or evening.

>

>Adrenal fatigue is very common in hypothryoidism because the thyroid

>controls the size and output of the adrenals. So, in long standing

>hypothyroidism and undertreated hypothyroidism, the adrenals will

>become weak and have deminished stores of hormones. This will make

>you hampered in stress and disturbs your circadian rythem just among

>the few of the countless things that can happen.

>

>The enlightened doctors will give low dose cortisol therapy for

>anywhere from 4 months to two years or however long it is needed

>while thyroid therapy is being adjusted and the patient slowly

>recovers. Typically this is 10 to 20 mg of cortisol per day in 4

>evenly divided doses. The healthy adrenals make 35 to 40 mg a day.

>So, this is basically physiologic doses that cannot give any

>symptoms of overdose. The vast majority or regular doctors, a rough

>estimate being about 90%, do not even think of this and often cause

>a lot of trouble for their patients by starting them on thyroid

>therapy without checking for the problem. Thyroid medications all

>have dire warnings in their safety literature on this problem as it

>can send a person to the hospital with an adrenal crisis. But, for

>some reason, doctors don't read their drug material.

>

>You can easily treat this yourself with over the counter or off the

>web adrenal glandulars. Two good ones are IsoCort and Nutri+meds

>adrenal. IsoCort contains 2-1/2 mg per tablet and Nutri+meds has

>about 4 or 5 mg per tablet. This means you will need 4 to 8 IsoCorts

>a day or about 2 to 6 Nutri+ meds. Be regular about taking meds on

>time and do not stop suddenly if you have been on them for 4 weeks

>or more. You will need to taper off slowly over a few weeks if you

>have been on them a while. Plan to need support for a minimum of 4

>weeks and up to 2 years. The adrenals are slow to recover and take

>time and care to avoid stress, get lots of rest, and eat small

>frequent meals. And most importantly, you need to get thyroid doses

>optimized for you or it will never get better.

>

>A good book on the topic is Jeffries " Safe Uses of Cortisol. "

>

>Tish

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Adrenal failure......I am wondering if that is what I had a few years ago.

Can your body correct itself, or once you have failure that's it?

I could not get out of bed one morning. I was so extremely dizzy that I could

only lay on one side. (right)

My husband took me to the hospital. They pumped me full of Compazine

(which made me have a panic attack). I have NEVER felt so bad from

anything in my life. I wanted to crawl out of my skin. They tested my

sinuses (I could have told them that wasn't it). They could not find anything

wrong with me.

Now looking back, and now knowing I had untreated thyroid for at least two

years. I am wondering if I had some type of adrenal failure?

What's your thoughts on that?

LYNN

At 02:43 PM 10/14/2004, you wrote:

>Most cortisol tests are designed to find s disease or total

>adrenal failure. Therefore the ranges are quite broad. You could

>have a 24 hour cortisol test, which would be better than a one time

>one, but it wouldn't tell you anything you don't already know.

>

>A real simple home test is to take your blood pressure lying down

>and then stand up and take it. If your blood pressure drops when you

>stand then you do not have enough adrenal hormones. You can also

>shine a bright light in your eyes and the pupil should close down

>and stay that way. If after a minute or less, it opens back up

>dispite the light being there or if it flutters in an attempt to

>stay closed, you do not have enough adrenal hormone levels. Since

>adrenal output needs to be double in the morning from what afternoon

>levels are, you are more likely to test positive on this in the

>morning. Usually in mild adrenal fatigue, the adrenals muster up

>what is needed by afternoon and most adrenally fatigued start to

>feel better by afternoon or evening.

>

>Adrenal fatigue is very common in hypothryoidism because the thyroid

>controls the size and output of the adrenals. So, in long standing

>hypothyroidism and undertreated hypothyroidism, the adrenals will

>become weak and have deminished stores of hormones. This will make

>you hampered in stress and disturbs your circadian rythem just among

>the few of the countless things that can happen.

>

>The enlightened doctors will give low dose cortisol therapy for

>anywhere from 4 months to two years or however long it is needed

>while thyroid therapy is being adjusted and the patient slowly

>recovers. Typically this is 10 to 20 mg of cortisol per day in 4

>evenly divided doses. The healthy adrenals make 35 to 40 mg a day.

>So, this is basically physiologic doses that cannot give any

>symptoms of overdose. The vast majority or regular doctors, a rough

>estimate being about 90%, do not even think of this and often cause

>a lot of trouble for their patients by starting them on thyroid

>therapy without checking for the problem. Thyroid medications all

>have dire warnings in their safety literature on this problem as it

>can send a person to the hospital with an adrenal crisis. But, for

>some reason, doctors don't read their drug material.

>

>You can easily treat this yourself with over the counter or off the

>web adrenal glandulars. Two good ones are IsoCort and Nutri+meds

>adrenal. IsoCort contains 2-1/2 mg per tablet and Nutri+meds has

>about 4 or 5 mg per tablet. This means you will need 4 to 8 IsoCorts

>a day or about 2 to 6 Nutri+ meds. Be regular about taking meds on

>time and do not stop suddenly if you have been on them for 4 weeks

>or more. You will need to taper off slowly over a few weeks if you

>have been on them a while. Plan to need support for a minimum of 4

>weeks and up to 2 years. The adrenals are slow to recover and take

>time and care to avoid stress, get lots of rest, and eat small

>frequent meals. And most importantly, you need to get thyroid doses

>optimized for you or it will never get better.

>

>A good book on the topic is Jeffries " Safe Uses of Cortisol. "

>

>Tish

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Adrenal failure......I am wondering if that is what I had a few years ago.

Can your body correct itself, or once you have failure that's it?

I could not get out of bed one morning. I was so extremely dizzy that I could

only lay on one side. (right)

My husband took me to the hospital. They pumped me full of Compazine

(which made me have a panic attack). I have NEVER felt so bad from

anything in my life. I wanted to crawl out of my skin. They tested my

sinuses (I could have told them that wasn't it). They could not find anything

wrong with me.

Now looking back, and now knowing I had untreated thyroid for at least two

years. I am wondering if I had some type of adrenal failure?

What's your thoughts on that?

LYNN

At 02:43 PM 10/14/2004, you wrote:

>Most cortisol tests are designed to find s disease or total

>adrenal failure. Therefore the ranges are quite broad. You could

>have a 24 hour cortisol test, which would be better than a one time

>one, but it wouldn't tell you anything you don't already know.

>

>A real simple home test is to take your blood pressure lying down

>and then stand up and take it. If your blood pressure drops when you

>stand then you do not have enough adrenal hormones. You can also

>shine a bright light in your eyes and the pupil should close down

>and stay that way. If after a minute or less, it opens back up

>dispite the light being there or if it flutters in an attempt to

>stay closed, you do not have enough adrenal hormone levels. Since

>adrenal output needs to be double in the morning from what afternoon

>levels are, you are more likely to test positive on this in the

>morning. Usually in mild adrenal fatigue, the adrenals muster up

>what is needed by afternoon and most adrenally fatigued start to

>feel better by afternoon or evening.

>

>Adrenal fatigue is very common in hypothryoidism because the thyroid

>controls the size and output of the adrenals. So, in long standing

>hypothyroidism and undertreated hypothyroidism, the adrenals will

>become weak and have deminished stores of hormones. This will make

>you hampered in stress and disturbs your circadian rythem just among

>the few of the countless things that can happen.

>

>The enlightened doctors will give low dose cortisol therapy for

>anywhere from 4 months to two years or however long it is needed

>while thyroid therapy is being adjusted and the patient slowly

>recovers. Typically this is 10 to 20 mg of cortisol per day in 4

>evenly divided doses. The healthy adrenals make 35 to 40 mg a day.

>So, this is basically physiologic doses that cannot give any

>symptoms of overdose. The vast majority or regular doctors, a rough

>estimate being about 90%, do not even think of this and often cause

>a lot of trouble for their patients by starting them on thyroid

>therapy without checking for the problem. Thyroid medications all

>have dire warnings in their safety literature on this problem as it

>can send a person to the hospital with an adrenal crisis. But, for

>some reason, doctors don't read their drug material.

>

>You can easily treat this yourself with over the counter or off the

>web adrenal glandulars. Two good ones are IsoCort and Nutri+meds

>adrenal. IsoCort contains 2-1/2 mg per tablet and Nutri+meds has

>about 4 or 5 mg per tablet. This means you will need 4 to 8 IsoCorts

>a day or about 2 to 6 Nutri+ meds. Be regular about taking meds on

>time and do not stop suddenly if you have been on them for 4 weeks

>or more. You will need to taper off slowly over a few weeks if you

>have been on them a while. Plan to need support for a minimum of 4

>weeks and up to 2 years. The adrenals are slow to recover and take

>time and care to avoid stress, get lots of rest, and eat small

>frequent meals. And most importantly, you need to get thyroid doses

>optimized for you or it will never get better.

>

>A good book on the topic is Jeffries " Safe Uses of Cortisol. "

>

>Tish

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Lynn

I did a crash of this kind, back in April of 1987. See, I even remember the

date. Different stresses for different people, but it's usually going to be

something or some things that are so stressful for that person, that they

just can't recover for a time frame, and once they crash, it is very hard

for them to build back up. Mine was an excruciatingly painful emotional

stressor, on a day when I realized after 18 yrs marriage, that this marriage

was never going to work, and that I had to leave. I'm only giving this as

an example for the reason that it is so similar as to what many people have

gone through before these crashes. I was in shock, you might say, most of

that day. Then, I went to bed that night, and when I opened my eyes, the

fun had started. The pounding heart, the gray outs, couldn't get out of

bed, lost interest in everything, though I tried. Now some people would

describe this only as depression, but I believe that this is actually what

depression is, for the most part. Lost appetite, extreme nervousness, and

almost an inability to breathe in and out at times. This is when I

instinctly started my running program for miles a day (fight or flight,

remember? I had to get ready for the fight I guess, somewhere in the back

of my mind), in an attempt to rid myself of the anxiety and weakness I was

feeling. It did help tremendously, but I was not the same after that, nor

would I have wanted to be. This is where I think that the purpose of these

types of crashes come in, believe it or not. We're doing something we

shouldn't be, either working too hard, worrying too much, being in a

position that we shouldn't be in, etc, etc..... I strongly believe that it

was around a yr before that that I went hyperthyroid, with all the symptoms

of that, including the high weight loss, even while eating a ton of food,

plus many other things. Yes, I believe that it can happen in a day. I

believe that it happened again sometime in 1993, and that's when they

discovered the hypothyroidism, and that was also the yr that I left my

husband for good, but they didn't check the adrenal glands because they just

didn't understand all of this, as I didn't either. ly, my energy and

the way I feel have never been the same since another crash in 1999. I

wasn't doing anything that I should have been doing because I didn't

understand why it was happening or what I was doing to encourage this. We

have to have knowledge in order to change anything. I can literally put a

date on it! I think that I've actually only been in true recovery for the

last yr or so, that is, if I do what I'm supposed to to recover.

Re: Re: help with cortisol test resutls?

>

> Adrenal failure......I am wondering if that is what I had a few years ago.

> Can your body correct itself, or once you have failure that's it?

>

> I could not get out of bed one morning. I was so extremely dizzy that I

could

> only lay on one side. (right)

> My husband took me to the hospital. They pumped me full of Compazine

> (which made me have a panic attack). I have NEVER felt so bad from

> anything in my life. I wanted to crawl out of my skin. They tested my

> sinuses (I could have told them that wasn't it). They could not find

anything

> wrong with me.

>

> Now looking back, and now knowing I had untreated thyroid for at least two

> years. I am wondering if I had some type of adrenal failure?

>

> What's your thoughts on that?

>

> LYNN

[Guest guest]

Tish,

How will you know if you don't need Isocort, or Nuti+meds anymore?

Also, I thought reading on the Texas thyroid group before, that you

may not need as much thyroid medication. Is this while taking the

isocort/nutri+meds or after your optimized?

Are there side-effects to taking either of these two drugs? What type of

reaction does one get? Do you feel like you have more energy after

taking either of these two?

My Dr. had offered to do a ACTH test on me, but I am afraid that it wont

truly show if I have adrenal fatigue. Do Dr's like the saliva tests? I don't

remember my Dr. offering that?

[Guest guest]

Tish,

How will you know if you don't need Isocort, or Nuti+meds anymore?

Also, I thought reading on the Texas thyroid group before, that you

may not need as much thyroid medication. Is this while taking the

isocort/nutri+meds or after your optimized?

Are there side-effects to taking either of these two drugs? What type of

reaction does one get? Do you feel like you have more energy after

taking either of these two?

My Dr. had offered to do a ACTH test on me, but I am afraid that it wont

truly show if I have adrenal fatigue. Do Dr's like the saliva tests? I don't

remember my Dr. offering that?

[Guest guest]

> Do Dr's like

> the saliva tests?

i don't think most of them do. my endo, after

refusing to do further testing on my adrenals, said

that i could go online and get saliva testing done

myself, but that there was no scientific evidence that

they were accurate. i then asked her why on earth i

would want to pay for a test that she didn't consider

accurate and wouldn't treat me based on? i mean,

really! use your head.

rachel.

The new GP I am seeing is actually going to find a place that

does saliva testing for me. Is there a particular on-line lab

that is the most accurate that I could suggest?

I have had blood cortisol and cortisol uptake, and both came

in at the low end of the range, but not dangerously low.

Nevertheless, I still think I have mild to moderate adrenal damage,

but I don't want to start fooling around with taking cortisol until I

have undeniable proof.

Courtenay.

[Guest guest]

> Do Dr's like

> the saliva tests?

i don't think most of them do. my endo, after

refusing to do further testing on my adrenals, said

that i could go online and get saliva testing done

myself, but that there was no scientific evidence that

they were accurate. i then asked her why on earth i

would want to pay for a test that she didn't consider

accurate and wouldn't treat me based on? i mean,

really! use your head.

rachel.

The new GP I am seeing is actually going to find a place that

does saliva testing for me. Is there a particular on-line lab

that is the most accurate that I could suggest?

I have had blood cortisol and cortisol uptake, and both came

in at the low end of the range, but not dangerously low.

Nevertheless, I still think I have mild to moderate adrenal damage,

but I don't want to start fooling around with taking cortisol until I

have undeniable proof.

Courtenay.

[Guest guest]

Hey --

I got the same song and dance. Both of the endos I've seen

really thought I had cortisol issues, and did the morning test, which

came back under 10-- and there was no follow through.

I understand-- adrenals are not something to play with lightly,

especially if you are as reactive as I am, and that's why my current

endo. doesn't want to fool with that. I love my

endocrinologist. But, I've been sick, really non-functional sick

for eight months-- something has gotta give. That's why I'm

seeing the naturopath/sports medicine guy.

Best--

Courtenay.

now that just burns me up!! my

morning came back at

9.6 (range 4 - 22) and my endo said no further testing

was warranted and she wouldn't order them, not even a

pm blood serum!! i'm going to try to find that book.

if i do, i will scan it so that we can put it online

in our files directory.

rachel.

[Guest guest]

Hey --

I got the same song and dance. Both of the endos I've seen

really thought I had cortisol issues, and did the morning test, which

came back under 10-- and there was no follow through.

I understand-- adrenals are not something to play with lightly,

especially if you are as reactive as I am, and that's why my current

endo. doesn't want to fool with that. I love my

endocrinologist. But, I've been sick, really non-functional sick

for eight months-- something has gotta give. That's why I'm

seeing the naturopath/sports medicine guy.

Best--

Courtenay.

now that just burns me up!! my

morning came back at

9.6 (range 4 - 22) and my endo said no further testing

was warranted and she wouldn't order them, not even a

pm blood serum!! i'm going to try to find that book.

if i do, i will scan it so that we can put it online

in our files directory.

rachel.

[Guest guest]

and Courtenay,

My last endo told me that low levels or levels that

are out of range because the are below normal don't

count!!! So why do they even use a range on the low

end then? LOL.

Debbie

--- Courtenay

wrote:

> >Hey --

>

> I got the same song and dance. Both of the endos

> I've seen really

> thought I had cortisol issues, and did the morning

> test, which came

> back under 10-- and there was no follow through.

>

> I understand-- adrenals are not something to play

> with lightly,

> especially if you are as reactive as I am, and

> that's why my current

> endo. doesn't want to fool with that. I love my

> endocrinologist.

> But, I've been sick, really non-functional sick for

> eight months--

> something has gotta give. That's why I'm seeing the

>

> naturopath/sports medicine guy.

>

> Best--

>

> Courtenay.

>

>

>

> >now that just burns me up!! my morning came back

> at

> >9.6 (range 4 - 22) and my endo said no further

> testing

> >was warranted and she wouldn't order them, not even

> a

> >pm blood serum!! i'm going to try to find that

> book.

> >if i do, i will scan it so that we can put it

> online

> >in our files directory.

> >

> >rachel.

> >

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

and Courtenay,

My last endo told me that low levels or levels that

are out of range because the are below normal don't

count!!! So why do they even use a range on the low

end then? LOL.

Debbie

--- Courtenay

wrote:

> >Hey --

>

> I got the same song and dance. Both of the endos

> I've seen really

> thought I had cortisol issues, and did the morning

> test, which came

> back under 10-- and there was no follow through.

>

> I understand-- adrenals are not something to play

> with lightly,

> especially if you are as reactive as I am, and

> that's why my current

> endo. doesn't want to fool with that. I love my

> endocrinologist.

> But, I've been sick, really non-functional sick for

> eight months--

> something has gotta give. That's why I'm seeing the

>

> naturopath/sports medicine guy.

>

> Best--

>

> Courtenay.

>

>

>

> >now that just burns me up!! my morning came back

> at

> >9.6 (range 4 - 22) and my endo said no further

> testing

> >was warranted and she wouldn't order them, not even

> a

> >pm blood serum!! i'm going to try to find that

> book.

> >if i do, i will scan it so that we can put it

> online

> >in our files directory.

> >

> >rachel.

> >

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I don't know. I am continually baffled by the logic of the

medical community.

Courtenay.

and Courtenay,

My last endo told me that low levels or levels that

are out of range because the are below normal don't

count!!! So why do they even use a range on the low

end then? LOL.

Debbie

[Guest guest]

Once again, I think that the pituitary tumor is at the bottom of this.

Remember, the pituitary and the hypothalamus are actually part of one

system, within spitting distance of each other. This is the one thing that

is sooo obvious and, amazingly, has never been taken care of. I really

cannot believe that one of these doctors has made no suggestion whatsoever

to operate on you to take at least part of that out, or at least do an

exploratory, if they can't do that. The water balance in the body is so

closely associated with this system, the adrenal substances, and the kidney

and potassium in general. I also think it's a mystery as to why your

ferritin is never completely corrected, though you are on the proper thyroid

treatment at this time. Has it ever been found at any time that you had any

kind of occult digestive bleeding, or do you any sort of stomach pain or

intestinal pain? I know it doesn't seem like the same sbjct, but the way

you're feeling, I thought I'd bring this back into the picture again.

Re: help with cortisol test resutls?

>

>

> {{{sigh}}}Endos!!! Most endos when they go to med school most use a

> text book called " Text of Endochrinology " in it is a

> section called " Secondary Adrenal Insufficiency " . In that section -

> it states that a morning blood serium of 10 or less and a pm blood

> serium of 3 is indicative of Secondary Adrenal Insufficiency and a

> ACTH stim should be perform. It also states that after 3 such am/pm

> tests (am fasting) are done then treatment should commence. As the

> hypothamthlus (sp) - pituitary - adrenal axis is not working properly.

>

> Now I have had one - count one am/pm test - done by my PCP as he

> thinks there is a problem. AM was 10.4, pm was 3.? (don't have it in

> front of me. The might P - refuses to do the ACTH test, tells me

> that this does not exist even though I have the section of the text

> copied in front of me & him. Refuses to run another am/pm test as

> not needed. Oh did I mention I have Central Hypothyroidism (and a

> pit tumor)? We already know my hypothamlus doesn't work properly

> with the thyroid-pituitary axis, so is it that big a leap to think

> the adrenal connection is also off???? My PCP, does not feel he

> knows enough about this to treat (cause of the tumor) and recommended

> I find a new endo, if that fails (ie new endo doesn't help) then he

> will research and help me anyway he can. Right now, I am making

> progress with the new endo, no not all solved yet, adrenals not

> addressed " yet " , but as I have many problems on-going - I plan on

> getting there once I get this potassium thing solved and who

> knows " that " may be all tied up in it somehow.

>

> Should have the latest labs in the next few days and we will see

> where we go from there.

>

> Janie

[Guest guest]

Once again, I think that the pituitary tumor is at the bottom of this.

Remember, the pituitary and the hypothalamus are actually part of one

system, within spitting distance of each other. This is the one thing that

is sooo obvious and, amazingly, has never been taken care of. I really

cannot believe that one of these doctors has made no suggestion whatsoever

to operate on you to take at least part of that out, or at least do an

exploratory, if they can't do that. The water balance in the body is so

closely associated with this system, the adrenal substances, and the kidney

and potassium in general. I also think it's a mystery as to why your

ferritin is never completely corrected, though you are on the proper thyroid

treatment at this time. Has it ever been found at any time that you had any

kind of occult digestive bleeding, or do you any sort of stomach pain or

intestinal pain? I know it doesn't seem like the same sbjct, but the way

you're feeling, I thought I'd bring this back into the picture again.

Re: help with cortisol test resutls?

>

>

> {{{sigh}}}Endos!!! Most endos when they go to med school most use a

> text book called " Text of Endochrinology " in it is a

> section called " Secondary Adrenal Insufficiency " . In that section -

> it states that a morning blood serium of 10 or less and a pm blood

> serium of 3 is indicative of Secondary Adrenal Insufficiency and a

> ACTH stim should be perform. It also states that after 3 such am/pm

> tests (am fasting) are done then treatment should commence. As the

> hypothamthlus (sp) - pituitary - adrenal axis is not working properly.

>

> Now I have had one - count one am/pm test - done by my PCP as he

> thinks there is a problem. AM was 10.4, pm was 3.? (don't have it in

> front of me. The might P - refuses to do the ACTH test, tells me

> that this does not exist even though I have the section of the text

> copied in front of me & him. Refuses to run another am/pm test as

> not needed. Oh did I mention I have Central Hypothyroidism (and a

> pit tumor)? We already know my hypothamlus doesn't work properly

> with the thyroid-pituitary axis, so is it that big a leap to think

> the adrenal connection is also off???? My PCP, does not feel he

> knows enough about this to treat (cause of the tumor) and recommended

> I find a new endo, if that fails (ie new endo doesn't help) then he

> will research and help me anyway he can. Right now, I am making

> progress with the new endo, no not all solved yet, adrenals not

> addressed " yet " , but as I have many problems on-going - I plan on

> getting there once I get this potassium thing solved and who

> knows " that " may be all tied up in it somehow.

>

> Should have the latest labs in the next few days and we will see

> where we go from there.

>

> Janie

[Guest guest]

Yeh, it " doesn't count " , especially if they don't know what the hell they're

doing, that's for sure, duh! Sort of like hypnosis. You don't see that,

you don't see that, you don't see

that.......................bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. You're getting very

sleepy.........bzzzzzzzz..........I don't know what I'm doing, so you're

getting veeerrrryyyy sleeeeeppyyy.............I need to go on vacation

again...........You're getting sleeepppieeerrrr............

Re: Re: help with cortisol test resutls?

>

> and Courtenay,

>

> My last endo told me that low levels or levels that

> are out of range because the are below normal don't

> count!!! So why do they even use a range on the low

> end then? LOL.

>

> Debbie

[Guest guest]

Yeh, it " doesn't count " , especially if they don't know what the hell they're

doing, that's for sure, duh! Sort of like hypnosis. You don't see that,

you don't see that, you don't see

that.......................bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. You're getting very

sleepy.........bzzzzzzzz..........I don't know what I'm doing, so you're

getting veeerrrryyyy sleeeeeppyyy.............I need to go on vacation

again...........You're getting sleeepppieeerrrr............

Re: Re: help with cortisol test resutls?

>

> and Courtenay,

>

> My last endo told me that low levels or levels that

> are out of range because the are below normal don't

> count!!! So why do they even use a range on the low

> end then? LOL.

>

> Debbie

[Guest guest]

Yeh, it " doesn't count " , especially if they don't know what the hell they're

doing, that's for sure, duh! Sort of like hypnosis. You don't see that,

you don't see that, you don't see

that.......................bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. You're getting very

sleepy.........bzzzzzzzz..........I don't know what I'm doing, so you're

getting veeerrrryyyy sleeeeeppyyy.............I need to go on vacation

again...........You're getting sleeepppieeerrrr............

Re: Re: help with cortisol test resutls?

>

> and Courtenay,

>

> My last endo told me that low levels or levels that

> are out of range because the are below normal don't

> count!!! So why do they even use a range on the low

> end then? LOL.

>

> Debbie

[Guest guest]

With your stomach problems, is it possible that you have lactose intolerance or celiac disease?janieskipper wrote:

I too always felt that the tumor was more in "play" then they do, but they always dismiss it. It isn't causing Cushings and my Prolatin isn't sky high and I don't have agrogmly (sp? gaintism), so it isn't a problem is their thinking.I knew something is out of whack - but getting them to take me serious - As for the stomach thing - I am always slightly nauses (sp?) and I have gas, and my um..er.. bowels swing from consipation to loose or very loose (that may be causing the posstasium problem). I can't take vitamins or supplements of any kind as they all make me vomit. I have different ones, at different times of day and they all make me sick. I have told the doctors this and it is blown off. I have tried to get nutrients by diet, but I have little appeitate, yet I gain weight

(20+lbs this year). I force myself to eat. Just brushing my teeth will make me throw up. I really don't have stomach pain, but I do have a consistant back ache - it never goes away. I have mentioned it. Once the tumor was shrunk by taking Premax from 5 mm to 2 mm they completely dismiss it. I can't win. JanieP.S. The new endo is more thorough then the mighty P, she has run a complete Pit Panel twice in 3 months, I should have the last results soon. I tend to be low normal on the hormones, with the exception of Prolactin - just over range now and TSH suppressed.> Once again, I think that the pituitary tumor is at the bottom of this.> Remember, the pituitary and the hypothalamus are actually part of one> system, within spitting distance of each

other. This is the one thing that> is sooo obvious and, amazingly, has never been taken care of. I really> cannot believe that one of these doctors has made no suggestion whatsoever> to operate on you to take at least part of that out, or at least do an> exploratory, if they can't do that. The water balance in the body is so> closely associated with this system, the adrenal substances, and the kidney> and potassium in general. I also think it's a mystery as to why your> ferritin is never completely corrected, though you are on the proper thyroid> treatment at this time. Has it ever been found at any time that you had any> kind of occult digestive bleeding, or do you any sort of stomach pain or> intestinal pain? I know it doesn't seem like the same sbjct, but the way> you're feeling, I thought I'd bring this back into the picture

again.> > > > Re: help with cortisol test resutls?> > > >> >> > {{{sigh}}}Endos!!! Most endos when they go to med school most use a> > text book called " Text of Endochrinology" in it is a> > section called "Secondary Adrenal Insufficiency". In that section -> > it states that a morning blood serium of 10 or less and a pm blood> > serium of 3 is indicative of Secondary Adrenal Insufficiency and a> > ACTH stim should be perform. It also states that after 3 such am/pm> > tests (am fasting) are done then treatment should commence. As the> > hypothamthlus (sp) -

pituitary - adrenal axis is not working properly.> >> > Now I have had one - count one am/pm test - done by my PCP as he> > thinks there is a problem. AM was 10.4, pm was 3.? (don't have it in> > front of me. The might P - refuses to do the ACTH test, tells me> > that this does not exist even though I have the section of the text> > copied in front of me & him. Refuses to run another am/pm test as> > not needed. Oh did I mention I have Central Hypothyroidism (and a> > pit tumor)? We already know my hypothamlus doesn't work properly> > with the thyroid-pituitary axis, so is it that big a leap to think> > the adrenal connection is also off???? My PCP, does not feel he> > knows enough about this to treat (cause of the tumor) and recommended> > I find a new endo, if that fails (ie new endo doesn't help) then

he> > will research and help me anyway he can. Right now, I am making> > progress with the new endo, no not all solved yet, adrenals not> > addressed "yet", but as I have many problems on-going - I plan on> > getting there once I get this potassium thing solved and who> > knows "that" may be all tied up in it somehow.> >> > Should have the latest labs in the next few days and we will see> > where we go from there.> >> > Janie__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

With your stomach problems, is it possible that you have lactose intolerance or celiac disease?janieskipper wrote:

I too always felt that the tumor was more in "play" then they do, but they always dismiss it. It isn't causing Cushings and my Prolatin isn't sky high and I don't have agrogmly (sp? gaintism), so it isn't a problem is their thinking.I knew something is out of whack - but getting them to take me serious - As for the stomach thing - I am always slightly nauses (sp?) and I have gas, and my um..er.. bowels swing from consipation to loose or very loose (that may be causing the posstasium problem). I can't take vitamins or supplements of any kind as they all make me vomit. I have different ones, at different times of day and they all make me sick. I have told the doctors this and it is blown off. I have tried to get nutrients by diet, but I have little appeitate, yet I gain weight

(20+lbs this year). I force myself to eat. Just brushing my teeth will make me throw up. I really don't have stomach pain, but I do have a consistant back ache - it never goes away. I have mentioned it. Once the tumor was shrunk by taking Premax from 5 mm to 2 mm they completely dismiss it. I can't win. JanieP.S. The new endo is more thorough then the mighty P, she has run a complete Pit Panel twice in 3 months, I should have the last results soon. I tend to be low normal on the hormones, with the exception of Prolactin - just over range now and TSH suppressed.> Once again, I think that the pituitary tumor is at the bottom of this.> Remember, the pituitary and the hypothalamus are actually part of one> system, within spitting distance of each

other. This is the one thing that> is sooo obvious and, amazingly, has never been taken care of. I really> cannot believe that one of these doctors has made no suggestion whatsoever> to operate on you to take at least part of that out, or at least do an> exploratory, if they can't do that. The water balance in the body is so> closely associated with this system, the adrenal substances, and the kidney> and potassium in general. I also think it's a mystery as to why your> ferritin is never completely corrected, though you are on the proper thyroid> treatment at this time. Has it ever been found at any time that you had any> kind of occult digestive bleeding, or do you any sort of stomach pain or> intestinal pain? I know it doesn't seem like the same sbjct, but the way> you're feeling, I thought I'd bring this back into the picture

again.> > > > Re: help with cortisol test resutls?> > > >> >> > {{{sigh}}}Endos!!! Most endos when they go to med school most use a> > text book called " Text of Endochrinology" in it is a> > section called "Secondary Adrenal Insufficiency". In that section -> > it states that a morning blood serium of 10 or less and a pm blood> > serium of 3 is indicative of Secondary Adrenal Insufficiency and a> > ACTH stim should be perform. It also states that after 3 such am/pm> > tests (am fasting) are done then treatment should commence. As the> > hypothamthlus (sp) -

pituitary - adrenal axis is not working properly.> >> > Now I have had one - count one am/pm test - done by my PCP as he> > thinks there is a problem. AM was 10.4, pm was 3.? (don't have it in> > front of me. The might P - refuses to do the ACTH test, tells me> > that this does not exist even though I have the section of the text> > copied in front of me & him. Refuses to run another am/pm test as> > not needed. Oh did I mention I have Central Hypothyroidism (and a> > pit tumor)? We already know my hypothamlus doesn't work properly> > with the thyroid-pituitary axis, so is it that big a leap to think> > the adrenal connection is also off???? My PCP, does not feel he> > knows enough about this to treat (cause of the tumor) and recommended> > I find a new endo, if that fails (ie new endo doesn't help) then

he> > will research and help me anyway he can. Right now, I am making> > progress with the new endo, no not all solved yet, adrenals not> > addressed "yet", but as I have many problems on-going - I plan on> > getting there once I get this potassium thing solved and who> > knows "that" may be all tied up in it somehow.> >> > Should have the latest labs in the next few days and we will see> > where we go from there.> >> > Janie__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Good point Jan,

My husband has lactose intolerance. His Dr. told him to drink a

glass of milk and see what

happens! He goes from being very constipated to just the

opposite. You REALLY have to

read the labels. If there is any whey on their, you can't have it

without taking a Lactaid.

The problem with my husband, although he takes the Lactaid, he stills has

problems, just

not as bad.

Did Dr. P test you for Celiac? He did me. Said that 8 out of

10 people that are from Irish

decent have that problem. (Thank goodness I got the Italian

digestive side!)

My two cents!

LYNN

At 02:42 PM 10/21/2004, you wrote:

With

your stomach problems, is it possible that you have lactose intolerance

or celiac disease?

janieskipper

wrote:

I too always felt that the tumor was more in " play " then they do, but

they always dismiss it. It isn't causing Cushings and my Prolatin

isn't sky high and I don't have agrogmly (sp? gaintism), so it isn't

a problem is their thinking.

I knew something is out of whack - but getting them to take me

serious -

As for the stomach thing - I am always slightly nauses (sp?) and I

have gas, and my um..er.. bowels swing from consipation to loose or

very loose (that may be causing the posstasium problem). I can't

take vitamins or supplements of any kind as they all make me vomit.

I have different ones, at different times of day and they all make me

sick. I have told the doctors this and it is blown off. I have

tried to get nutrients by diet, but I have little appeitate, yet I

gai! n weight (20+lbs this year). I force myself to eat. Just

brushing my teeth will make me throw up. I really don't have stomach

pain, but I do have a consistant back ache - it never goes away. I

have mentioned it.

Once the tumor was shrunk by taking Premax from 5 mm to 2 mm they

completely dismiss it.

I can't win.

Janie

P.S. The new endo is more thorough then the mighty P, she has run a

complete Pit Panel twice in 3 months, I should have the last results

soon. I tend to be low normal on the hormones, with the exception of

Prolactin - just over range now and TSH suppressed.

> Once again, I think that the pituitary tumor is at the bottom of

this.

> Remember, the pituitary and the hypothalamus are actually part of

one

> system, within spitting distance of ! each other. This is the one

thing that

> is sooo obvious and, amazingly, has never been taken care of. I

really

> cannot believe that one of these doctors has made no suggestion

whatsoever

> to operate on you to take at least part of that out, or at least do

an

> exploratory, if they can't do that. The water balance in the body

is so

> closely associated with this system, the adrenal substances, and

the kidney

> and potassium in general. I also think it's a mystery as to why

your

> ferritin is never completely corrected, though you are on the

proper thyroid

> treatment at this time. Has it ever been found at any time that

you had any

> kind of occult digestive bleeding, or do you any sort of stomach

pain or

> intestinal pain? I know it doesn't seem like the same sbjct, but

the way

> you're feeling, I thought I'd bring this back into th! e picture

again.

>

>

>

> Re: help with cortisol test resutls?

>

>

> >

> >

> > {{{sigh}}}Endos!!! Most endos when they go to med school most

use a

> > text book called " Text of Endochrinology " in it is a

> > section called " Secondary Adrenal Insufficiency " . In that

section -

> > it states that a morning blood serium of 10 or less and a pm blood

> > serium of 3 is indicative of Secondary Adrenal Insufficiency and a

> > ACTH stim should be perform. It also states that after 3 such

am/pm

> > tests (am fasting) are done then treatment should commence. As

the

> > hypothamthlu! s (sp) - pituitary - adrenal axis is not working

properly.

> >

> > Now I have had one - count one am/pm test - done by my PCP as he

> > thinks there is a problem. AM was 10.4, pm was 3.? (don't have

it in

> > front of me. The might P - refuses to do the ACTH test, tells me

> > that this does not exist even though I have the section of the

text

> > copied in front of me & him. Refuses to run another am/pm test as

> > not needed. Oh did I mention I have Central Hypothyroidism (and a

> > pit tumor)? We already know my hypothamlus doesn't work properly

> > with the thyroid-pituitary axis, so is it that big a leap to think

> > the adrenal connection is also off???? My PCP, does not feel he

> > knows enough about this to treat (cause of the tumor) and

recommended

> > I find a new endo, if that fails (ie new endo doesn't help) t! hen

he

> > will research and help me anyway he can. Right now, I am making

> > progress with the new endo, no not all solved yet, adrenals not

> > addressed " yet " , but as I have many problems on-going - I plan on

> > getting there once I get this potassium thing solved and who

> > knows " that " may be all tied up in it somehow.

> >

> > Should have the latest labs in the next few days and we will see

> > where we go from there.

> >

> > Janie

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Good point Jan,

My husband has lactose intolerance. His Dr. told him to drink a

glass of milk and see what

happens! He goes from being very constipated to just the

opposite. You REALLY have to

read the labels. If there is any whey on their, you can't have it

without taking a Lactaid.

The problem with my husband, although he takes the Lactaid, he stills has

problems, just

not as bad.

Did Dr. P test you for Celiac? He did me. Said that 8 out of

10 people that are from Irish

decent have that problem. (Thank goodness I got the Italian

digestive side!)

My two cents!

LYNN

At 02:42 PM 10/21/2004, you wrote:

With

your stomach problems, is it possible that you have lactose intolerance

or celiac disease?

janieskipper

wrote:

I too always felt that the tumor was more in " play " then they do, but

they always dismiss it. It isn't causing Cushings and my Prolatin

isn't sky high and I don't have agrogmly (sp? gaintism), so it isn't

a problem is their thinking.

I knew something is out of whack - but getting them to take me

serious -

As for the stomach thing - I am always slightly nauses (sp?) and I

have gas, and my um..er.. bowels swing from consipation to loose or

very loose (that may be causing the posstasium problem). I can't

take vitamins or supplements of any kind as they all make me vomit.

I have different ones, at different times of day and they all make me

sick. I have told the doctors this and it is blown off. I have

tried to get nutrients by diet, but I have little appeitate, yet I

gai! n weight (20+lbs this year). I force myself to eat. Just

brushing my teeth will make me throw up. I really don't have stomach

pain, but I do have a consistant back ache - it never goes away. I

have mentioned it.

Once the tumor was shrunk by taking Premax from 5 mm to 2 mm they

completely dismiss it.

I can't win.

Janie

P.S. The new endo is more thorough then the mighty P, she has run a

complete Pit Panel twice in 3 months, I should have the last results

soon. I tend to be low normal on the hormones, with the exception of

Prolactin - just over range now and TSH suppressed.

> Once again, I think that the pituitary tumor is at the bottom of

this.

> Remember, the pituitary and the hypothalamus are actually part of

one

> system, within spitting distance of ! each other. This is the one

thing that

> is sooo obvious and, amazingly, has never been taken care of. I

really

> cannot believe that one of these doctors has made no suggestion

whatsoever

> to operate on you to take at least part of that out, or at least do

an

> exploratory, if they can't do that. The water balance in the body

is so

> closely associated with this system, the adrenal substances, and

the kidney

> and potassium in general. I also think it's a mystery as to why

your

> ferritin is never completely corrected, though you are on the

proper thyroid

> treatment at this time. Has it ever been found at any time that

you had any

> kind of occult digestive bleeding, or do you any sort of stomach

pain or

> intestinal pain? I know it doesn't seem like the same sbjct, but

the way

> you're feeling, I thought I'd bring this back into th! e picture

again.

>

>

>

> Re: help with cortisol test resutls?

>

>

> >

> >

> > {{{sigh}}}Endos!!! Most endos when they go to med school most

use a

> > text book called " Text of Endochrinology " in it is a

> > section called " Secondary Adrenal Insufficiency " . In that

section -

> > it states that a morning blood serium of 10 or less and a pm blood

> > serium of 3 is indicative of Secondary Adrenal Insufficiency and a

> > ACTH stim should be perform. It also states that after 3 such

am/pm

> > tests (am fasting) are done then treatment should commence. As

the

> > hypothamthlu! s (sp) - pituitary - adrenal axis is not working

properly.

> >

> > Now I have had one - count one am/pm test - done by my PCP as he

> > thinks there is a problem. AM was 10.4, pm was 3.? (don't have

it in

> > front of me. The might P - refuses to do the ACTH test, tells me

> > that this does not exist even though I have the section of the

text

> > copied in front of me & him. Refuses to run another am/pm test as

> > not needed. Oh did I mention I have Central Hypothyroidism (and a

> > pit tumor)? We already know my hypothamlus doesn't work properly

> > with the thyroid-pituitary axis, so is it that big a leap to think

> > the adrenal connection is also off???? My PCP, does not feel he

> > knows enough about this to treat (cause of the tumor) and

recommended

> > I find a new endo, if that fails (ie new endo doesn't help) t! hen

he

> > will research and help me anyway he can. Right now, I am making

> > progress with the new endo, no not all solved yet, adrenals not

> > addressed " yet " , but as I have many problems on-going - I plan on

> > getting there once I get this potassium thing solved and who

> > knows " that " may be all tied up in it somehow.

> >

> > Should have the latest labs in the next few days and we will see

> > where we go from there.

> >

> > Janie

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Yes, you will win, and the more you give a description of things, the more

this sounds like cortisol doing it's little tricks. I went through the

nausea, unsettled thing last yr, before I made my transition to Armour, and

I strongly believe that cortisol had something to do with that. It's like

EVERYthing made me vomit, including brushing my teeth, as you said. This

was also the time that I slowly put fat on my midriff area, so I highly

suspect it, but, as usual, still haven't tested it. And the hypothalamus

produces some of these hormones, as well as the pituitary. They are so

closely coupled in the same area that, if there's been any growth at all, I

don't see how they both would not be affected.

Re: help with cortisol test resutls?

> >

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > {{{sigh}}}Endos!!! Most endos when they go to med school most

> use a

> > > text book called " Text of Endochrinology " in it is a

> > > section called " Secondary Adrenal Insufficiency " . In that

> section -

> > > it states that a morning blood serium of 10 or less and a pm blood

> > > serium of 3 is indicative of Secondary Adrenal Insufficiency and a

> > > ACTH stim should be perform. It also states that after 3 such

> am/pm

> > > tests (am fasting) are done then treatment should commence. As

> the

> > > hypothamthlus (sp) - pituitary - adrenal axis is not working

> properly.

> > >

> > > Now I have had one - count one am/pm test - done by my PCP as he

> > > thinks there is a problem. AM was 10.4, pm was 3.? (don't have

> it in

> > > front of me. The might P - refuses to do the ACTH test, tells me

> > > that this does not exist even though I have the section of the

> text

> > > copied in front of me & him. Refuses to run another am/pm test as

> > > not needed. Oh did I mention I have Central Hypothyroidism (and a

> > > pit tumor)? We already know my hypothamlus doesn't work properly

> > > with the thyroid-pituitary axis, so is it that big a leap to think

> > > the adrenal connection is also off???? My PCP, does not feel he

> > > knows enough about this to treat (cause of the tumor) and

> recommended

> > > I find a new endo, if that fails (ie new endo doesn't help) then

> he

> > > will research and help me anyway he can. Right now, I am making

> > > progress with the new endo, no not all solved yet, adrenals not

> > > addressed " yet " , but as I have many problems on-going - I plan on

> > > getting there once I get this potassium thing solved and who

> > > knows " that " may be all tied up in it somehow.

> > >

> > > Should have the latest labs in the next few days and we will see

> > > where we go from there.

> > >

> > > Janie

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This

>was also the time that I slowly put fat on my midriff area,

>

>

I was complaining to the Dr. about not fitting into my clothes. I haven't

gained

any weight, well, maybe 1 or 2 pounds in a year, but my middle section in

getting huge and has been since I moved one year ago.

I haven't changed a thing. Still run 9-10 miles a week, still eat the same

things.

Dr. P had ordered an ACTH test for me, but I am afraid that it will not

show anything.

I am thinking of asking my GP to run the saliva test instead???

Any thoughts?

LYNN

[Guest guest]

This

>was also the time that I slowly put fat on my midriff area,

>

>

I was complaining to the Dr. about not fitting into my clothes. I haven't

gained

any weight, well, maybe 1 or 2 pounds in a year, but my middle section in

getting huge and has been since I moved one year ago.

I haven't changed a thing. Still run 9-10 miles a week, still eat the same

things.

Dr. P had ordered an ACTH test for me, but I am afraid that it will not

show anything.

I am thinking of asking my GP to run the saliva test instead???

Any thoughts?

LYNN