Re: doctor's appointment today/ pleased, but confused

August 12, 2004

I swear, if doctors get irritable because they see 20 patients before

2:00 then maybe they shouldn't see so many patients? I see some

arrogance in this guy too. I can see why you're confused.

I used to have panic attacks way back, like 14 or 15 years ago,

before I even knew thyroid disease existed. Now I'm more on the

depressed side, but I still struggle with plenty of anxiety issues.

I think there's a fine line between depression and anxiety. I have

been reading Dr. Broda Barne's book and he talks a lot about the

thyroid/depression/anxiety connection. He, and a lot of other

doctors, have seen depression and anxiety subside as patients are

optimized on their thyroid drugs. And I think Dr.

specifically used Armour. I don't know -- I haven't finished the

book yet. But I really believe that T3 contributes a lot to people

feeling better.

30 mg of Armour might not be enough for you but it's a good place to

start. I think they increased your Levoxyl too fast and/or you are

sensitive to all the T4's, just like I was. I did terrible on T4

alone. Armour is much better. But it takes time.

~

> The more I think about that appointment, the more frustrated I feel.

>

> I didn't start having the panic attacks until the year before I was

> diagnosed. The panic attacks are usually attributed to three

things:

> caffeine, exhaustion or medications that did not respond well with

my

> body (such as decongestants or antidepressants). As you can guess,

I

> no longer do any of the things that should trigger the attacks.

>

> What usually happens when I have a panic attack is that I feel as

> though I cannot swallow properly. Then, my breathing becomes

> irregular and my pulse goes up.

>

> The incident that drove me to Dr. L's office when my doc was out

did

> not follow that pattern. I woke up and did not feel well; I had

not

> been feeling well since I started the .125 mcg dose. I felt

heavily

> drugged and my heartbeat was unusually slow. My chest felt tight.

> The same scenario repeated itself the evening of that wedding,

after

> I'd been off the medication for two days.

>

> Clinical depression runs in my family, so I am familiar with the

> signs and signals of a chemical problem. What frustrates me is

that

> all the doctors I've seen are quick to point to that as the root

> cause of my problems, when I know I'm not depressed in the clinical

> sense. And my current therapist does not believe I'm depressed in

> the clinical sense.

>

> In the environmental sense, of course I'm blue because I've been

sick

> and primarily home-bound for the last seven months. I had to

cancel

> all my teaching engagements from June through December. (I teach at

> the college level.) I have been trying to moderate it with good

> food, interesting books and kind friends-- this has helped a lot.

>

> But since my T3 count has probably been the problem all of this

time,

> who knows....

>

> The doctor prescribed a 30 mg. dose of Armour-- equivalent to the

50

> mcg. dose of Levoxyl I was taking in May.

>

> If you will notice, my TSH was out of range when I was originally

> diagnosed, but my T4 count was normal. They've been giving me a T4

> medication, all of these doctors, without checking my T3-- when

it's

> more likely that was the root problem. And the T4 medication

> actually drove my T4 count down, not up.

>

> Any additional thoughts you might have would be most helpful.

Thanks

> for responding so quickly to my original post.

>

August 13, 2004

Well, I think he was being very careless when he wouldn't test your ferritin

because that type of anemia is SOOOO common in thyroid disease, so this

surprised me, considering what else he did for you. I think it's a mark in

his favor that he's saying that it IS depression, as one of the symptoms,

but only secondary to a chronic illness, which means at least he's " thinking

right " about this part. I hope that the T3 test you get is a Free value,

not the Total, or you won't know how much of that is Free. They ARE anxiety

attacks, also, caused by physical chemistry problems, but not for the reason

that the substitute doctor said, and you know that so many think that we're

all just " hysterical females " , haha! I had so many panic attacks way back

when, and guess what it was----the flip phase, hyper, of Hashi's, and it is

a miserable feeling not to know what's happening to you. It makes me know

that there are unburied things going on with ALL people who have panic

attacks, and that most of it is NOT situationally or emotionally based,

rather physical in nature. I'd get my Free testing on my own from

HealthCheck, so that I could figure out a bigger picture here, if he's not

going to do them.

doctor's appointment today/ pleased, but

confused

> Hi everyone!

>

> I had an appointment today with Menendez, and I wanted to hash

> out some of the details with y'all.

>

> The good news is that he prescribed Armour. The bad news is

> that he said that Armour is made in unclean spaces and that the

> medication is unreliable. Does anyone have any RELIABLE

> MEDICAL RESOURCES I can pass on to him that won't come off

> as rude?

>

> I did not try to refute him, but I did ask some questions that I think

> raised his ire. He's been away on vacation. He saw twenty

> patients before he saw me today, and it was only 2:00.

>

> I also brought in my own written agenda that he didn't even

> glance over throughout our appointment. (See earlier post.)

>

> The reason he prescribed it was simply because I have not been

> responding well to any of the synthetics. I have tried Levoxyl,

> Synthroid and Cytomel. Each one has their own little hellish

> place in my heart for making me feel as though I needed to go to

> the hospital.

>

> He also kept directing many of his answers to my husband. My

> husband thinks he was just being polite, but I felt as though he

> was deferring to him.

>

> His agenda at this point is to try me on 30 mg. of Armour. My lab

> tests will be available by 1:30 tomorrow, so we will converse by

> phone.

>

> He doesn't want to test ferritin, estrogen or anything else until we

> optimize my meds.

>

> I did managed to convince him into testing my thyroid antibodies,

> and T3 in addition to the usual T4/TSH.

>

> Oh, and guess what-- I also got my original lab tests back from

> when I went to my GP, sick as a dog last March and told them to

> test my thyroid. My TSH was 9.452 (Normal 0.350-5.500) and

> my T4 was within normal range. The GP I saw at the time said

> my TSH was " a little " over normal. Hmmmph!

>

> I walked out of Menendez's office feeling pleased that he

> prescribed the Armour despite his own reservations, but I felt as

> though I had not really gotten any of the answers for the

> questions I wanted to ask.

>

> My husband's impression is that he is doing his best to tailor his

> approach to my needs, which I agree with entirely. He has made

> himself available by phone or in person RIGHT AWAY when I

> have needed information or a medication change (due to the

> medication making me sick).

>

> He did talk to the endocrinologist who filled in for him in his

> absence; the traditionalist who took me off Levoxyl because it

> was making me sick. I get the feeling that Dr. L thought my

> symptoms were all related to panic attacks, and related that

> information to Menendez. (No matter what I said, Dr. L thought

> they were panic attacks. And they weren't.)

>

> On the other hand, Menendez said something about a

> " secondary problem of depression " that is " due to the fact that

> I've been so sick for so long. "

>

> So, what do y'all think?

>

> Best wishes--

>

> Courtenay.

>

August 13, 2004

No sense beating around the bush, Jan.

Re: doctor's appointment today/ pleased, but confused

Your doc is ignorant.

August 13, 2004

I've already replied about where to get the Free T3, but I'm going to say it again because I feel a sense of urgency here. I believe that that reading is going to be your particular key to what's going on. I feel like you are having extreme swings in these two hormones. This IS a family illness, and where you look back into a family full of "anxiety" and "depression", I think you're going to see thyroid problems that went for generations undiagnosed. I've got these family ailments also, with a brother whom I believe literally died as an indirect cause of these same problems, undiagnosed, in all those yrs. What he actually directly died of was being hit walking on a freeway, but all that was the result of "bipolar", a wet brain from treating his yrs-on-end of constant "unrest", "anxiety", swings to depression, and then manic, nervous episodes that he knew no other way to calm but with alcohol. He was extremely intelligent, with a very high IQ, yet failed in his attempts in life because of this constant "unrest". I remember his eyes having that "stare" of what I now call hyperthyroidism, but noone ever thought to look there at all. How many people have even killed themselves being in a hypo or hyper state? There IS proof positive of this, as there was a news cap a yr ago about a foreign woman killing herself in her own country because she was in these swinging states of mind and physical misery, and all of it was because she could NOT get treatment in her own country for her thyroid condition. How many people down through generations?

Re: doctor's appointment today/ pleased, but confused

The more I think about that appointment, the more frustrated I feel.

I didn't start having the panic attacks until the year before I was diagnosed. The panic attacks are usually attributed to three things: caffeine, exhaustion or medications that did not respond well with my body (such as decongestants or antidepressants). As you can guess, I no longer do any of the things that should trigger the attacks.

What usually happens when I have a panic attack is that I feel as though I cannot swallow properly. Then, my breathing becomes irregular and my pulse goes up.

The incident that drove me to Dr. L's office when my doc was out did not follow that pattern. I woke up and did not feel well; I had not been feeling well since I started the .125 mcg dose. I felt heavily drugged and my heartbeat was unusually slow. My chest felt tight. The same scenario repeated itself the evening of that wedding, after I'd been off the medication for two days.

Clinical depression runs in my family, so I am familiar with the signs and signals of a chemical problem. What frustrates me is that all the doctors I've seen are quick to point to that as the root cause of my problems, when I know I'm not depressed in the clinical sense. And my current therapist does not believe I'm depressed in the clinical sense.

In the environmental sense, of course I'm blue because I've been sick and primarily home-bound for the last seven months. I had to cancel all my teaching engagements from June through December. (I teach at the college level.) I have been trying to moderate it with good food, interesting books and kind friends-- this has helped a lot.

But since my T3 count has probably been the problem all of this time, who knows....

The doctor prescribed a 30 mg. dose of Armour-- equivalent to the 50 mcg. dose of Levoxyl I was taking in May.

If you will notice, my TSH was out of range when I was originally diagnosed, but my T4 count was normal. They've been giving me a T4 medication, all of these doctors, without checking my T3-- when it's more likely that was the root problem. And the T4 medication actually drove my T4 count down, not up.

Any additional thoughts you might have would be most helpful. Thanks for responding so quickly to my original post

Panic attacks are often thyroid related. While they are most often associated with being hyper, they can also be the result of hypothyroidism or undermedication.

Depression is also a symptom of hypothyroidism, most especially a T3 deficiency.

August 13, 2004

Dear --

Thanks so much for both of your replies-- I was in a really dark

place last night regarding my appointment and its potential outcome.

Also, my husband and I had differing opinions about what

happened, which is understandable-- his whole life has been one big

trauma for the last year. His mother passed away when we were on

our honeymoon. And his stepfather passed away right before I was

diagnosed with hypothyroidism. So he has been grieving, dealing

with difficult family members, executing the estate in Los Angeles,

working and lately-- taking care of me.

We've been through a lot of new territory this year.

What has been particularly sticky about figuring out this

illness, is that my mother is adopted and my parents divorced when I

was four.

My mother's parents' medical history is completely unknown.

She has the potential to be extremely erratic, but she refuses to take

antidepressants. She has suffered from fatigue since her teens.

And her thyroid was tested two years ago, her GP proclaimed her

normal-- she has a really good GP, but I don't think he knows what

he's doing in this situation.

My father is deceased and I didn't know him, or his medical

history. He had undiagnosed mental illness, which manifested in a

drinking/drug problem and erratic behavior. He died young-- 47.

I don't know the cause. It could easily have been thyroid

related, for all I know.

As you can guess, I've carefully monitored my own mental health

since I was a teenager, and I sought therapy when it was needed.

I've had really good mental health care, and as of yet, have not been

diagnosed with a clinical mental illness.

In addition to these issues, my original test results BEFORE I

took any medications showed that I had a normal T4, and an abnormal

TSH. Of course, that means my T3 must have been the conundrum to

start with. But, of course, those jerks gave me a T4 medication,

which, on top of other things, gave me thyroid symptoms that I did not

have previous to diagnosis.

The medications threw my normal T4 out of whack and actually

pushed it downward. So, not only was I missing T3, but I was

also losing T4 too. And my TSH was low. It's no wonder I

felt like somebody pushed me down 20 flights of stairs!

This last appointment I MADE him do a thyroid antibody test

(haven't gotten results for that yet) and a Free T3. (He

was okay with doing both; he just didn't like my responses regarding

Armour.) I have the results, but no lab values, because I got them

over the phone--

They are:

TSH 4.84 (A week ago, it was at .66)

T4 ,8 (Two weeks ago,

it was 1.1)

T3 94 (This is the first free T3 test

I've had, ever.)

I am starting 30 mg. of Armour tomorrow, and I plan to split the

dose and take half in the morning and half in the afternoon.

I have been off all meds for almost two weeks. Despite some

exhaustion, I've actually felt pretty good since the Levoxyl left my

system.

I also spoke with my Endo. today, and he seems much more at ease

than he did yesterday. I remembered something else he said

during the appointment that made me feel good later, " I will keep

trying and trying to fix this, with everything I can. "

I am really, really sorry to hear about your brother. I can

no longer even pretend to understand the greater medical

establishment, especially when I hear stories like this one. I

feel deeply for your suffering and I'm sorry that you and your family

had to go through that experience.

Courtenay.

I've already

replied about where to get the Free T3, but I'm going to say it again

because I feel a sense of urgency here. I believe that that

reading is going to be your particular key to what's going on. I

feel like you are having extreme swings in these two hormones.

This IS a family illness, and where you look back into a family full

of " anxiety " and " depression " , I think you're

going to see thyroid problems that went for generations undiagnosed.

I've got these family ailments also, with a brother whom I believe

literally died as an indirect cause of these same problems,

undiagnosed, in all those yrs. What he actually directly died of

was being hit walking on a freeway, but all that was the result of

" bipolar " , a wet brain from treating his yrs-on-end of

constant " unrest " , " anxiety " , swings to

depression, and then manic, nervous episodes that he knew no other way

to calm but with alcohol. He was extremely intelligent, with a

very high IQ, yet failed in his attempts in life because of this

constant " unrest " . I remember his eyes having that

" stare " of what I now call hyperthyroidism, but noone ever

thought to look there at all. How many people have even killed

themselves being in a hypo or hyper state? There IS proof

positive of this, as there was a news cap a yr ago about a foreign

woman killing herself in her own country because she was in these

swinging states of mind and physical misery, and all of it was because

she could NOT get treatment in her own country for her thyroid

condition. How many people down through

generations?

Re: doctor's

appointment today/ pleased, but confused

The more I think about that appointment, the more

frustrated I feel.

I didn't start having the panic attacks until the year

before I was diagnosed. The panic attacks are usually attributed

to three things: caffeine, exhaustion or medications that did not

respond well with my body (such as decongestants or antidepressants).

As you can guess, I no longer do any of the things that should trigger

the attacks.

What usually happens when I have a panic attack is that I

feel as though I cannot swallow properly. Then, my breathing

becomes irregular and my pulse goes up.

The incident that drove me to Dr. L's office when my doc

was out did not follow that pattern. I woke up and did not feel

well; I had not been feeling well since I started the .125 mcg dose.

I felt heavily drugged and my heartbeat was unusually slow. My

chest felt tight. The same scenario repeated itself the evening

of that wedding, after I'd been off the medication for two

days.

Clinical depression runs in my family, so I am familiar

with the signs and signals of a chemical problem. What

frustrates me is that all the doctors I've seen are quick to point to

that as the root cause of my problems, when I know I'm not depressed

in the clinical sense. And my current therapist does not believe

I'm depressed in the clinical sense.

In the environmental sense, of course I'm blue because

I've been sick and primarily home-bound for the last seven months.

I had to cancel all my teaching engagements from June through

December. (I teach at the college level.) I have been trying to

moderate it with good food, interesting books and kind friends-- this

has helped a lot.

But since my T3 count has probably been the problem all of

this time, who knows....

The doctor prescribed a 30 mg. dose of Armour-- equivalent

to the 50 mcg. dose of Levoxyl I was taking in May.

If you will notice, my TSH was out of range when I was

originally diagnosed, but my T4 count was normal. They've been

giving me a T4 medication, all of these doctors, without checking my

T3-- when it's more likely that was the root problem. And the T4

medication actually drove my T4 count down, not up.

Any additional thoughts you might have would be most

helpful. Thanks for responding so quickly to my original

post

Panic attacks are often thyroid related. While they

are most often associated with being hyper, they can also be the

result of hypothyroidism or undermedication.

Depression is

also a symptom of hypothyroidism, most especially a T3

deficiency.

Yahoo!

Groups Sponsor

August 13, 2004

Dear --

Thanks so much for both of your replies-- I was in a really dark

place last night regarding my appointment and its potential outcome.

Also, my husband and I had differing opinions about what

happened, which is understandable-- his whole life has been one big

trauma for the last year. His mother passed away when we were on

our honeymoon. And his stepfather passed away right before I was

diagnosed with hypothyroidism. So he has been grieving, dealing

with difficult family members, executing the estate in Los Angeles,

working and lately-- taking care of me.

We've been through a lot of new territory this year.

What has been particularly sticky about figuring out this

illness, is that my mother is adopted and my parents divorced when I

was four.

My mother's parents' medical history is completely unknown.

She has the potential to be extremely erratic, but she refuses to take

antidepressants. She has suffered from fatigue since her teens.

And her thyroid was tested two years ago, her GP proclaimed her

normal-- she has a really good GP, but I don't think he knows what

he's doing in this situation.

My father is deceased and I didn't know him, or his medical

history. He had undiagnosed mental illness, which manifested in a

drinking/drug problem and erratic behavior. He died young-- 47.

I don't know the cause. It could easily have been thyroid

related, for all I know.

As you can guess, I've carefully monitored my own mental health

since I was a teenager, and I sought therapy when it was needed.

I've had really good mental health care, and as of yet, have not been

diagnosed with a clinical mental illness.

In addition to these issues, my original test results BEFORE I

took any medications showed that I had a normal T4, and an abnormal

TSH. Of course, that means my T3 must have been the conundrum to

start with. But, of course, those jerks gave me a T4 medication,

which, on top of other things, gave me thyroid symptoms that I did not

have previous to diagnosis.

The medications threw my normal T4 out of whack and actually

pushed it downward. So, not only was I missing T3, but I was

also losing T4 too. And my TSH was low. It's no wonder I

felt like somebody pushed me down 20 flights of stairs!

This last appointment I MADE him do a thyroid antibody test

(haven't gotten results for that yet) and a Free T3. (He

was okay with doing both; he just didn't like my responses regarding

Armour.) I have the results, but no lab values, because I got them

over the phone--

They are:

TSH 4.84 (A week ago, it was at .66)

T4 ,8 (Two weeks ago,

it was 1.1)

T3 94 (This is the first free T3 test

I've had, ever.)

I am starting 30 mg. of Armour tomorrow, and I plan to split the

dose and take half in the morning and half in the afternoon.

I have been off all meds for almost two weeks. Despite some

exhaustion, I've actually felt pretty good since the Levoxyl left my

system.

I also spoke with my Endo. today, and he seems much more at ease

than he did yesterday. I remembered something else he said

during the appointment that made me feel good later, " I will keep

trying and trying to fix this, with everything I can. "

I am really, really sorry to hear about your brother. I can

no longer even pretend to understand the greater medical

establishment, especially when I hear stories like this one. I

feel deeply for your suffering and I'm sorry that you and your family

had to go through that experience.

Courtenay.

I've already

replied about where to get the Free T3, but I'm going to say it again

because I feel a sense of urgency here. I believe that that

reading is going to be your particular key to what's going on. I

feel like you are having extreme swings in these two hormones.

This IS a family illness, and where you look back into a family full

of " anxiety " and " depression " , I think you're

going to see thyroid problems that went for generations undiagnosed.

I've got these family ailments also, with a brother whom I believe

literally died as an indirect cause of these same problems,

undiagnosed, in all those yrs. What he actually directly died of

was being hit walking on a freeway, but all that was the result of

" bipolar " , a wet brain from treating his yrs-on-end of

constant " unrest " , " anxiety " , swings to

depression, and then manic, nervous episodes that he knew no other way

to calm but with alcohol. He was extremely intelligent, with a

very high IQ, yet failed in his attempts in life because of this

constant " unrest " . I remember his eyes having that

" stare " of what I now call hyperthyroidism, but noone ever

thought to look there at all. How many people have even killed

themselves being in a hypo or hyper state? There IS proof

positive of this, as there was a news cap a yr ago about a foreign

woman killing herself in her own country because she was in these

swinging states of mind and physical misery, and all of it was because

she could NOT get treatment in her own country for her thyroid

condition. How many people down through

generations?

Re: doctor's

appointment today/ pleased, but confused

The more I think about that appointment, the more

frustrated I feel.

I didn't start having the panic attacks until the year

before I was diagnosed. The panic attacks are usually attributed

to three things: caffeine, exhaustion or medications that did not

respond well with my body (such as decongestants or antidepressants).

As you can guess, I no longer do any of the things that should trigger

the attacks.

What usually happens when I have a panic attack is that I

feel as though I cannot swallow properly. Then, my breathing

becomes irregular and my pulse goes up.

The incident that drove me to Dr. L's office when my doc

was out did not follow that pattern. I woke up and did not feel

well; I had not been feeling well since I started the .125 mcg dose.

I felt heavily drugged and my heartbeat was unusually slow. My

chest felt tight. The same scenario repeated itself the evening

of that wedding, after I'd been off the medication for two

days.

Clinical depression runs in my family, so I am familiar

with the signs and signals of a chemical problem. What

frustrates me is that all the doctors I've seen are quick to point to

that as the root cause of my problems, when I know I'm not depressed

in the clinical sense. And my current therapist does not believe

I'm depressed in the clinical sense.

In the environmental sense, of course I'm blue because

I've been sick and primarily home-bound for the last seven months.

I had to cancel all my teaching engagements from June through

December. (I teach at the college level.) I have been trying to

moderate it with good food, interesting books and kind friends-- this

has helped a lot.

But since my T3 count has probably been the problem all of

this time, who knows....

The doctor prescribed a 30 mg. dose of Armour-- equivalent

to the 50 mcg. dose of Levoxyl I was taking in May.

If you will notice, my TSH was out of range when I was

originally diagnosed, but my T4 count was normal. They've been

giving me a T4 medication, all of these doctors, without checking my

T3-- when it's more likely that was the root problem. And the T4

medication actually drove my T4 count down, not up.

Any additional thoughts you might have would be most

helpful. Thanks for responding so quickly to my original

post

Panic attacks are often thyroid related. While they

are most often associated with being hyper, they can also be the

result of hypothyroidism or undermedication.

Depression is

also a symptom of hypothyroidism, most especially a T3

deficiency.

Yahoo!

Groups Sponsor

August 13, 2004

Dear --

Thanks so much for both of your replies-- I was in a really dark

place last night regarding my appointment and its potential outcome.

Also, my husband and I had differing opinions about what

happened, which is understandable-- his whole life has been one big

trauma for the last year. His mother passed away when we were on

our honeymoon. And his stepfather passed away right before I was

diagnosed with hypothyroidism. So he has been grieving, dealing

with difficult family members, executing the estate in Los Angeles,

working and lately-- taking care of me.

We've been through a lot of new territory this year.

What has been particularly sticky about figuring out this

illness, is that my mother is adopted and my parents divorced when I

was four.

My mother's parents' medical history is completely unknown.

She has the potential to be extremely erratic, but she refuses to take

antidepressants. She has suffered from fatigue since her teens.

And her thyroid was tested two years ago, her GP proclaimed her

normal-- she has a really good GP, but I don't think he knows what

he's doing in this situation.

My father is deceased and I didn't know him, or his medical

history. He had undiagnosed mental illness, which manifested in a

drinking/drug problem and erratic behavior. He died young-- 47.

I don't know the cause. It could easily have been thyroid

related, for all I know.

As you can guess, I've carefully monitored my own mental health

since I was a teenager, and I sought therapy when it was needed.

I've had really good mental health care, and as of yet, have not been

diagnosed with a clinical mental illness.

In addition to these issues, my original test results BEFORE I

took any medications showed that I had a normal T4, and an abnormal

TSH. Of course, that means my T3 must have been the conundrum to

start with. But, of course, those jerks gave me a T4 medication,

which, on top of other things, gave me thyroid symptoms that I did not

have previous to diagnosis.

The medications threw my normal T4 out of whack and actually

pushed it downward. So, not only was I missing T3, but I was

also losing T4 too. And my TSH was low. It's no wonder I

felt like somebody pushed me down 20 flights of stairs!

This last appointment I MADE him do a thyroid antibody test

(haven't gotten results for that yet) and a Free T3. (He

was okay with doing both; he just didn't like my responses regarding

Armour.) I have the results, but no lab values, because I got them

over the phone--

They are:

TSH 4.84 (A week ago, it was at .66)

T4 ,8 (Two weeks ago,

it was 1.1)

T3 94 (This is the first free T3 test

I've had, ever.)

I am starting 30 mg. of Armour tomorrow, and I plan to split the

dose and take half in the morning and half in the afternoon.

I have been off all meds for almost two weeks. Despite some

exhaustion, I've actually felt pretty good since the Levoxyl left my

system.

I also spoke with my Endo. today, and he seems much more at ease

than he did yesterday. I remembered something else he said

during the appointment that made me feel good later, " I will keep

trying and trying to fix this, with everything I can. "

I am really, really sorry to hear about your brother. I can

no longer even pretend to understand the greater medical

establishment, especially when I hear stories like this one. I

feel deeply for your suffering and I'm sorry that you and your family

had to go through that experience.

Courtenay.

I've already

replied about where to get the Free T3, but I'm going to say it again

because I feel a sense of urgency here. I believe that that

reading is going to be your particular key to what's going on. I

feel like you are having extreme swings in these two hormones.

This IS a family illness, and where you look back into a family full

of " anxiety " and " depression " , I think you're

going to see thyroid problems that went for generations undiagnosed.

I've got these family ailments also, with a brother whom I believe

literally died as an indirect cause of these same problems,

undiagnosed, in all those yrs. What he actually directly died of

was being hit walking on a freeway, but all that was the result of

" bipolar " , a wet brain from treating his yrs-on-end of

constant " unrest " , " anxiety " , swings to

depression, and then manic, nervous episodes that he knew no other way

to calm but with alcohol. He was extremely intelligent, with a

very high IQ, yet failed in his attempts in life because of this

constant " unrest " . I remember his eyes having that

" stare " of what I now call hyperthyroidism, but noone ever

thought to look there at all. How many people have even killed

themselves being in a hypo or hyper state? There IS proof

positive of this, as there was a news cap a yr ago about a foreign

woman killing herself in her own country because she was in these

swinging states of mind and physical misery, and all of it was because

she could NOT get treatment in her own country for her thyroid

condition. How many people down through

generations?

Re: doctor's

appointment today/ pleased, but confused

The more I think about that appointment, the more

frustrated I feel.

I didn't start having the panic attacks until the year

before I was diagnosed. The panic attacks are usually attributed

to three things: caffeine, exhaustion or medications that did not

respond well with my body (such as decongestants or antidepressants).

As you can guess, I no longer do any of the things that should trigger

the attacks.

What usually happens when I have a panic attack is that I

feel as though I cannot swallow properly. Then, my breathing

becomes irregular and my pulse goes up.

The incident that drove me to Dr. L's office when my doc

was out did not follow that pattern. I woke up and did not feel

well; I had not been feeling well since I started the .125 mcg dose.

I felt heavily drugged and my heartbeat was unusually slow. My

chest felt tight. The same scenario repeated itself the evening

of that wedding, after I'd been off the medication for two

days.

Clinical depression runs in my family, so I am familiar

with the signs and signals of a chemical problem. What

frustrates me is that all the doctors I've seen are quick to point to

that as the root cause of my problems, when I know I'm not depressed

in the clinical sense. And my current therapist does not believe

I'm depressed in the clinical sense.

In the environmental sense, of course I'm blue because

I've been sick and primarily home-bound for the last seven months.

I had to cancel all my teaching engagements from June through

December. (I teach at the college level.) I have been trying to

moderate it with good food, interesting books and kind friends-- this

has helped a lot.

But since my T3 count has probably been the problem all of

this time, who knows....

The doctor prescribed a 30 mg. dose of Armour-- equivalent

to the 50 mcg. dose of Levoxyl I was taking in May.

If you will notice, my TSH was out of range when I was

originally diagnosed, but my T4 count was normal. They've been

giving me a T4 medication, all of these doctors, without checking my

T3-- when it's more likely that was the root problem. And the T4

medication actually drove my T4 count down, not up.

Any additional thoughts you might have would be most

helpful. Thanks for responding so quickly to my original

post

Panic attacks are often thyroid related. While they

are most often associated with being hyper, they can also be the

result of hypothyroidism or undermedication.

Depression is

also a symptom of hypothyroidism, most especially a T3

deficiency.

Yahoo!

Groups Sponsor

August 13, 2004

Hi --

I hope you're having a good evening. And I thank you for

your support-- it means a great deal to me during times like

these.

As far as the panic attacks go, I do one of two things 1)

meditation/creative visualization, or if it's gone too far, 2) I take

my clonazepam, which I carry with me everywhere. I've really

tried hard to remove unnecessary stressors from my life, which has

really helped. But, occasionally... it happens anyway.

I will be starting on Armour tomorrow, and what was most exciting

is that my nearby grocery store/pharmacy actually had it in stock!

The name brand and the right dosage, which I plan to split and take

half in the morning, half in the afternoon.

What I discovered from my original lab tests, the ones before I

was put on Levoxyl is that my T4 actually fell within a normal range.

My TSH was above 9. And yet they still gave me a T4 medication,

which makes no sense to me in retrospect.

I am really hoping Armour is the answer, but I am also willing to

accept the time involved with dosing and the possibility that this may

not be " the one " . Still, I am hoping against hope, as

is my family.

Best wishes--

Courtenay.

I swear, if doctors get irritable

because they see 20 patients before

2:00 then maybe they shouldn't see so many patients? I see

some

arrogance in this guy too. I can see why you're confused.

I used to have panic attacks way back, like 14 or 15 years ago,

before I even knew thyroid disease existed. Now I'm more on

the

depressed side, but I still struggle with plenty of anxiety

issues.

I think there's a fine line between depression and anxiety. I

have

been reading Dr. Broda Barne's book and he talks a lot about the

thyroid/depression/anxiety connection. He, and a lot of

other

doctors, have seen depression and anxiety subside as patients are

optimized on their thyroid drugs. And I think Dr.

specifically used Armour. I don't know -- I haven't finished

the

book yet. But I really believe that T3 contributes a lot to

people

feeling better.

30 mg of Armour might not be enough for you but it's a good place

to

start. I think they increased your Levoxyl too fast and/or you

are

sensitive to all the T4's, just like I was. I did terrible on

T4

alone. Armour is much better. But it takes time.

~

> The more I think about that appointment, the more frustrated I

feel.

>

> I didn't start having the panic attacks until the year before I

was

> diagnosed. The panic attacks are usually attributed to

three

things:

> caffeine, exhaustion or medications that did not respond well

with

my

> body (such as decongestants or antidepressants). As you can

guess,

I

> no longer do any of the things that should trigger the

attacks.

>

> What usually happens when I have a panic attack is that I feel

as

> though I cannot swallow properly. Then, my breathing

becomes

> irregular and my pulse goes up.

>

> The incident that drove me to Dr. L's office when my doc was

out

did

> not follow that pattern. I woke up and did not feel well; I

had

not

> been feeling well since I started the .125 mcg dose. I

felt

heavily

> drugged and my heartbeat was unusually slow. My chest felt

tight.

> The same scenario repeated itself the evening of that

wedding,

after

> I'd been off the medication for two days.

>

> Clinical depression runs in my family, so I am familiar with

the

> signs and signals of a chemical problem. What frustrates me

is

that

> all the doctors I've seen are quick to point to that as the

root

> cause of my problems, when I know I'm not depressed in the

clinical

> sense. And my current therapist does not believe I'm

depressed in

> the clinical sense.

>

> In the environmental sense, of course I'm blue because I've

been

sick

> and primarily home-bound for the last seven months. I had

to

cancel

> all my teaching engagements from June through December. (I teach

at

> the college level.) I have been trying to moderate it with

good

> food, interesting books and kind friends-- this has helped a

lot.

>

> But since my T3 count has probably been the problem all of

this

time,

> who knows....

>

> The doctor prescribed a 30 mg. dose of Armour-- equivalent to

the

50

> mcg. dose of Levoxyl I was taking in May.

>

> If you will notice, my TSH was out of range when I was

originally

> diagnosed, but my T4 count was normal. They've been giving

me a T4

> medication, all of these doctors, without checking my T3--

when

it's

> more likely that was the root problem. And the T4

medication

> actually drove my T4 count down, not up.

>

> Any additional thoughts you might have would be most

helpful.

Thanks

> for responding so quickly to my original post.

>

Yahoo!

Groups Sponsor

August 13, 2004

Hi --

I hope you're having a good evening. And I thank you for

your support-- it means a great deal to me during times like

these.

As far as the panic attacks go, I do one of two things 1)

meditation/creative visualization, or if it's gone too far, 2) I take

my clonazepam, which I carry with me everywhere. I've really

tried hard to remove unnecessary stressors from my life, which has

really helped. But, occasionally... it happens anyway.

I will be starting on Armour tomorrow, and what was most exciting

is that my nearby grocery store/pharmacy actually had it in stock!

The name brand and the right dosage, which I plan to split and take

half in the morning, half in the afternoon.

What I discovered from my original lab tests, the ones before I

was put on Levoxyl is that my T4 actually fell within a normal range.

My TSH was above 9. And yet they still gave me a T4 medication,

which makes no sense to me in retrospect.

I am really hoping Armour is the answer, but I am also willing to

accept the time involved with dosing and the possibility that this may

not be " the one " . Still, I am hoping against hope, as

is my family.

Best wishes--

Courtenay.

I swear, if doctors get irritable

because they see 20 patients before

2:00 then maybe they shouldn't see so many patients? I see

some

arrogance in this guy too. I can see why you're confused.

I used to have panic attacks way back, like 14 or 15 years ago,

before I even knew thyroid disease existed. Now I'm more on

the

depressed side, but I still struggle with plenty of anxiety

issues.

I think there's a fine line between depression and anxiety. I

have

been reading Dr. Broda Barne's book and he talks a lot about the

thyroid/depression/anxiety connection. He, and a lot of

other

doctors, have seen depression and anxiety subside as patients are

optimized on their thyroid drugs. And I think Dr.

specifically used Armour. I don't know -- I haven't finished

the

book yet. But I really believe that T3 contributes a lot to

people

feeling better.

30 mg of Armour might not be enough for you but it's a good place

to

start. I think they increased your Levoxyl too fast and/or you

are

sensitive to all the T4's, just like I was. I did terrible on

T4

alone. Armour is much better. But it takes time.

~

> The more I think about that appointment, the more frustrated I

feel.

>

> I didn't start having the panic attacks until the year before I

was

> diagnosed. The panic attacks are usually attributed to

three

things:

> caffeine, exhaustion or medications that did not respond well

with

my

> body (such as decongestants or antidepressants). As you can

guess,

I

> no longer do any of the things that should trigger the

attacks.

>

> What usually happens when I have a panic attack is that I feel

as

> though I cannot swallow properly. Then, my breathing

becomes

> irregular and my pulse goes up.

>

> The incident that drove me to Dr. L's office when my doc was

out

did

> not follow that pattern. I woke up and did not feel well; I

had

not

> been feeling well since I started the .125 mcg dose. I

felt

heavily

> drugged and my heartbeat was unusually slow. My chest felt

tight.

> The same scenario repeated itself the evening of that

wedding,

after

> I'd been off the medication for two days.

>

> Clinical depression runs in my family, so I am familiar with

the

> signs and signals of a chemical problem. What frustrates me

is

that

> all the doctors I've seen are quick to point to that as the

root

> cause of my problems, when I know I'm not depressed in the

clinical

> sense. And my current therapist does not believe I'm

depressed in

> the clinical sense.

>

> In the environmental sense, of course I'm blue because I've

been

sick

> and primarily home-bound for the last seven months. I had

to

cancel

> all my teaching engagements from June through December. (I teach

at

> the college level.) I have been trying to moderate it with

good

> food, interesting books and kind friends-- this has helped a

lot.

>

> But since my T3 count has probably been the problem all of

this

time,

> who knows....

>

> The doctor prescribed a 30 mg. dose of Armour-- equivalent to

the

50

> mcg. dose of Levoxyl I was taking in May.

>

> If you will notice, my TSH was out of range when I was

originally

> diagnosed, but my T4 count was normal. They've been giving

me a T4

> medication, all of these doctors, without checking my T3--

when

it's

> more likely that was the root problem. And the T4

medication

> actually drove my T4 count down, not up.

>

> Any additional thoughts you might have would be most

helpful.

Thanks

> for responding so quickly to my original post.

>

Yahoo!

Groups Sponsor

August 13, 2004

Hi --

I hope you're having a good evening. And I thank you for

your support-- it means a great deal to me during times like

these.

As far as the panic attacks go, I do one of two things 1)

meditation/creative visualization, or if it's gone too far, 2) I take

my clonazepam, which I carry with me everywhere. I've really

tried hard to remove unnecessary stressors from my life, which has

really helped. But, occasionally... it happens anyway.

I will be starting on Armour tomorrow, and what was most exciting

is that my nearby grocery store/pharmacy actually had it in stock!

The name brand and the right dosage, which I plan to split and take

half in the morning, half in the afternoon.

What I discovered from my original lab tests, the ones before I

was put on Levoxyl is that my T4 actually fell within a normal range.

My TSH was above 9. And yet they still gave me a T4 medication,

which makes no sense to me in retrospect.

I am really hoping Armour is the answer, but I am also willing to

accept the time involved with dosing and the possibility that this may

not be " the one " . Still, I am hoping against hope, as

is my family.

Best wishes--

Courtenay.

I swear, if doctors get irritable

because they see 20 patients before

2:00 then maybe they shouldn't see so many patients? I see

some

arrogance in this guy too. I can see why you're confused.

I used to have panic attacks way back, like 14 or 15 years ago,

before I even knew thyroid disease existed. Now I'm more on

the

depressed side, but I still struggle with plenty of anxiety

issues.

I think there's a fine line between depression and anxiety. I

have

been reading Dr. Broda Barne's book and he talks a lot about the

thyroid/depression/anxiety connection. He, and a lot of

other

doctors, have seen depression and anxiety subside as patients are

optimized on their thyroid drugs. And I think Dr.

specifically used Armour. I don't know -- I haven't finished

the

book yet. But I really believe that T3 contributes a lot to

people

feeling better.

30 mg of Armour might not be enough for you but it's a good place

to

start. I think they increased your Levoxyl too fast and/or you

are

sensitive to all the T4's, just like I was. I did terrible on

T4

alone. Armour is much better. But it takes time.

~

> The more I think about that appointment, the more frustrated I

feel.

>

> I didn't start having the panic attacks until the year before I

was

> diagnosed. The panic attacks are usually attributed to

three

things:

> caffeine, exhaustion or medications that did not respond well

with

my

> body (such as decongestants or antidepressants). As you can

guess,

I

> no longer do any of the things that should trigger the

attacks.

>

> What usually happens when I have a panic attack is that I feel

as

> though I cannot swallow properly. Then, my breathing

becomes

> irregular and my pulse goes up.

>

> The incident that drove me to Dr. L's office when my doc was

out

did

> not follow that pattern. I woke up and did not feel well; I

had

not

> been feeling well since I started the .125 mcg dose. I

felt

heavily

> drugged and my heartbeat was unusually slow. My chest felt

tight.

> The same scenario repeated itself the evening of that

wedding,

after

> I'd been off the medication for two days.

>

> Clinical depression runs in my family, so I am familiar with

the

> signs and signals of a chemical problem. What frustrates me

is

that

> all the doctors I've seen are quick to point to that as the

root

> cause of my problems, when I know I'm not depressed in the

clinical

> sense. And my current therapist does not believe I'm

depressed in

> the clinical sense.

>

> In the environmental sense, of course I'm blue because I've

been

sick

> and primarily home-bound for the last seven months. I had

to

cancel

> all my teaching engagements from June through December. (I teach

at

> the college level.) I have been trying to moderate it with

good

> food, interesting books and kind friends-- this has helped a

lot.

>

> But since my T3 count has probably been the problem all of

this

time,

> who knows....

>

> The doctor prescribed a 30 mg. dose of Armour-- equivalent to

the

50

> mcg. dose of Levoxyl I was taking in May.

>

> If you will notice, my TSH was out of range when I was

originally

> diagnosed, but my T4 count was normal. They've been giving

me a T4

> medication, all of these doctors, without checking my T3--

when

it's

> more likely that was the root problem. And the T4

medication

> actually drove my T4 count down, not up.

>

> Any additional thoughts you might have would be most

helpful.

Thanks

> for responding so quickly to my original post.

>

Yahoo!

Groups Sponsor

August 14, 2004

I am so glad that you had those antibodies tests run because they are the other major key. When you said that your TSH was going up, but the T4 was still normal, I had another thought, though just supposing. I'm wondering if your pituitary was urging your thyroid on to produce hormone that it COULD produce, at least at that time. I'm wondering if, as time went on, could it have turned int HYPERthyroidism, with a normally working gland, at the time. Did the doctor run BOTH antibodies, the antithyroidperoxidase AND the antithyroglobulin antibodies? Sometimes part of the problem can be both with a pituitary or hypothalamus that is out of control AND a gland that won't produce hormone, but I'm wondering if, at that point in time, could it have been the gland that was normal, but rather the hypothalamus driving the pituitary to produce more TSH, or both both the hypothalamus and the pituitary. I know, it's confusing, but in a normal gland, hormone WILL be produced in response to an out of control pituitary, that is, until the gland goes caput and is driven into a diseased state. Might want to ask Jan about this one, but there are other antibodies that denote Grave's Disease also, especially the ones to what, the TSH receptors? Grave's patients also have the antithyroidperoxidase antibody, I'm thinking. I have both of the first two mentioned in extremely high #s, in the thousands, but have never had the antibody tested for the Grave's antibodies. When the thyroid is "put to sleep" before any of these things are determined, it sometimes seems to be a "what if" situation. This is why I just don't give doctors any excuses when they go to treat this disease, because our lives, literally, are in their hands, and it is NOT simple, as many say. It affects your whole future. I am NOT going to be dismal though, because there is hope, and it's all been a learning experience that I never would have had, therefore, not sharing with other people and helping them.

Re: doctor's appointment today/ pleased, but confused

Dear --

Thanks so much for both of your replies-- I was in a really dark place last night regarding my appointment and its potential outcome.

Also, my husband and I had differing opinions about what happened, which is understandable-- his whole life has been one big trauma for the last year. His mother passed away when we were on our honeymoon. And his stepfather passed away right before I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism. So he has been grieving, dealing with difficult family members, executing the estate in Los Angeles, working and lately-- taking care of me.

We've been through a lot of new territory this year.

What has been particularly sticky about figuring out this illness, is that my mother is adopted and my parents divorced when I was four.

My mother's parents' medical history is completely unknown. She has the potential to be extremely erratic, but she refuses to take antidepressants. She has suffered from fatigue since her teens. And her thyroid was tested two years ago, her GP proclaimed her normal-- she has a really good GP, but I don't think he knows what he's doing in this situation.

My father is deceased and I didn't know him, or his medical history. He had undiagnosed mental illness, which manifested in a drinking/drug problem and erratic behavior. He died young-- 47. I don't know the cause. It could easily have been thyroid related, for all I know.

As you can guess, I've carefully monitored my own mental health since I was a teenager, and I sought therapy when it was needed. I've had really good mental health care, and as of yet, have not been diagnosed with a clinical mental illness.

In addition to these issues, my original test results BEFORE I took any medications showed that I had a normal T4, and an abnormal TSH. Of course, that means my T3 must have been the conundrum to start with. But, of course, those jerks gave me a T4 medication, which, on top of other things, gave me thyroid symptoms that I did not have previous to diagnosis.

The medications threw my normal T4 out of whack and actually pushed it downward. So, not only was I missing T3, but I was also losing T4 too. And my TSH was low. It's no wonder I felt like somebody pushed me down 20 flights of stairs!

This last appointment I MADE him do a thyroid antibody test (haven't gotten results for that yet) and a Free T3. (He was okay with doing both; he just didn't like my responses regarding Armour.) I have the results, but no lab values, because I got them over the phone--

They are:

TSH 4.84 (A week ago, it was at .66)

T4 ,8 (Two weeks ago, it was 1.1)

T3 94 (This is the first free T3 test I've had, ever.)

I am starting 30 mg. of Armour tomorrow, and I plan to split the dose and take half in the morning and half in the afternoon.

I have been off all meds for almost two weeks. Despite some exhaustion, I've actually felt pretty good since the Levoxyl left my system.

I also spoke with my Endo. today, and he seems much more at ease than he did yesterday. I remembered something else he said during the appointment that made me feel good later, "I will keep trying and trying to fix this, with everything I can."

I am really, really sorry to hear about your brother. I can no longer even pretend to understand the greater medical establishment, especially when I hear stories like this one. I feel deeply for your suffering and I'm sorry that you and your family had to go through that experience.

Courtenay.

August 14, 2004

I am so glad that you had those antibodies tests run because they are the other major key. When you said that your TSH was going up, but the T4 was still normal, I had another thought, though just supposing. I'm wondering if your pituitary was urging your thyroid on to produce hormone that it COULD produce, at least at that time. I'm wondering if, as time went on, could it have turned int HYPERthyroidism, with a normally working gland, at the time. Did the doctor run BOTH antibodies, the antithyroidperoxidase AND the antithyroglobulin antibodies? Sometimes part of the problem can be both with a pituitary or hypothalamus that is out of control AND a gland that won't produce hormone, but I'm wondering if, at that point in time, could it have been the gland that was normal, but rather the hypothalamus driving the pituitary to produce more TSH, or both both the hypothalamus and the pituitary. I know, it's confusing, but in a normal gland, hormone WILL be produced in response to an out of control pituitary, that is, until the gland goes caput and is driven into a diseased state. Might want to ask Jan about this one, but there are other antibodies that denote Grave's Disease also, especially the ones to what, the TSH receptors? Grave's patients also have the antithyroidperoxidase antibody, I'm thinking. I have both of the first two mentioned in extremely high #s, in the thousands, but have never had the antibody tested for the Grave's antibodies. When the thyroid is "put to sleep" before any of these things are determined, it sometimes seems to be a "what if" situation. This is why I just don't give doctors any excuses when they go to treat this disease, because our lives, literally, are in their hands, and it is NOT simple, as many say. It affects your whole future. I am NOT going to be dismal though, because there is hope, and it's all been a learning experience that I never would have had, therefore, not sharing with other people and helping them.

Re: doctor's appointment today/ pleased, but confused

Dear --

Thanks so much for both of your replies-- I was in a really dark place last night regarding my appointment and its potential outcome.

Also, my husband and I had differing opinions about what happened, which is understandable-- his whole life has been one big trauma for the last year. His mother passed away when we were on our honeymoon. And his stepfather passed away right before I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism. So he has been grieving, dealing with difficult family members, executing the estate in Los Angeles, working and lately-- taking care of me.

We've been through a lot of new territory this year.

What has been particularly sticky about figuring out this illness, is that my mother is adopted and my parents divorced when I was four.

My mother's parents' medical history is completely unknown. She has the potential to be extremely erratic, but she refuses to take antidepressants. She has suffered from fatigue since her teens. And her thyroid was tested two years ago, her GP proclaimed her normal-- she has a really good GP, but I don't think he knows what he's doing in this situation.

My father is deceased and I didn't know him, or his medical history. He had undiagnosed mental illness, which manifested in a drinking/drug problem and erratic behavior. He died young-- 47. I don't know the cause. It could easily have been thyroid related, for all I know.

As you can guess, I've carefully monitored my own mental health since I was a teenager, and I sought therapy when it was needed. I've had really good mental health care, and as of yet, have not been diagnosed with a clinical mental illness.

In addition to these issues, my original test results BEFORE I took any medications showed that I had a normal T4, and an abnormal TSH. Of course, that means my T3 must have been the conundrum to start with. But, of course, those jerks gave me a T4 medication, which, on top of other things, gave me thyroid symptoms that I did not have previous to diagnosis.

The medications threw my normal T4 out of whack and actually pushed it downward. So, not only was I missing T3, but I was also losing T4 too. And my TSH was low. It's no wonder I felt like somebody pushed me down 20 flights of stairs!

This last appointment I MADE him do a thyroid antibody test (haven't gotten results for that yet) and a Free T3. (He was okay with doing both; he just didn't like my responses regarding Armour.) I have the results, but no lab values, because I got them over the phone--

They are:

TSH 4.84 (A week ago, it was at .66)

T4 ,8 (Two weeks ago, it was 1.1)

T3 94 (This is the first free T3 test I've had, ever.)

I am starting 30 mg. of Armour tomorrow, and I plan to split the dose and take half in the morning and half in the afternoon.

I have been off all meds for almost two weeks. Despite some exhaustion, I've actually felt pretty good since the Levoxyl left my system.

I also spoke with my Endo. today, and he seems much more at ease than he did yesterday. I remembered something else he said during the appointment that made me feel good later, "I will keep trying and trying to fix this, with everything I can."

I am really, really sorry to hear about your brother. I can no longer even pretend to understand the greater medical establishment, especially when I hear stories like this one. I feel deeply for your suffering and I'm sorry that you and your family had to go through that experience.

Courtenay.

August 14, 2004

Dear --

I'm not even sure which antibodies test he ran, but I will find

out on Monday during our regularly scheduled phone call. It's a

testament to how little I actually know yet-- I knew to ask for the

antibodies test but did not specify for Hashi's/Graves, nor did

I even know the appropriate medical terminology.

This hasn't been discussed with anyone yet, but my weight

yo-yoed for many years-- not due to dieting. Seemingly

within weeks, I could and would drop or gain ten pounds without

noticing. My body could go from 90 to 110 and back to 90 in no

time. That all slowed in my late twenties, and I associated the

change with better eating habits. Now, I wonder....

Okay, just to clarify: the hypothalamus is located where?

What's it's function? And the pituitary gland is located where?

And what does it normally control?

Thanks for all your help.

I knew I should have taken anatomy in college instead of science

for artists.

Best wishes--

Courtenay.

I am so glad

that you had those antibodies tests run because they are the other

major key. When you said that your TSH was going up, but the T4

was still normal, I had another thought, though just supposing.

I'm wondering if your pituitary was urging your thyroid on to produce

hormone that it COULD produce, at least at that time. I'm

wondering if, as time went on, could it have turned int

HYPERthyroidism, with a normally working gland, at the time. Did

the doctor run BOTH antibodies, the antithyroidperoxidase AND the

antithyroglobulin antibodies? Sometimes part of the problem can

be both with a pituitary or hypothalamus that is out of control AND a

gland that won't produce hormone, but I'm wondering if, at that point

in time, could it have been the gland that was normal, but rather the

hypothalamus driving the pituitary to produce more TSH, or both both

the hypothalamus and the pituitary. I know, it's confusing, but

in a normal gland, hormone WILL be produced in response to an out of

control pituitary, that is, until the gland goes caput and is driven

into a diseased state. Might want to ask Jan about this one, but

there are other antibodies that denote Grave's Disease also,

especially the ones to what, the TSH receptors? Grave's patients

also have the antithyroidperoxidase antibody, I'm thinking. I

have both of the first two mentioned in extremely high #s, in the

thousands, but have never had the antibody tested for the Grave's

antibodies. When the thyroid is " put to sleep " before

any of these things are determined, it sometimes seems to be a

" what if " situation. This is why I just don't give

doctors any excuses when they go to treat this disease, because our

lives, literally, are in their hands, and it is NOT simple, as many

say. It affects your whole future. I am NOT going to be

dismal though, because there is hope, and it's all been a learning

experience that I never would have had, therefore, not sharing with

other people and helping them.

Re: doctor's

appointment today/ pleased, but confused

Dear --

Thanks so much for both of your replies-- I was in a

really dark place last night regarding my appointment and its

potential outcome.

Also, my husband and I had differing opinions about what

happened, which is understandable-- his whole life has been one big

trauma for the last year. His mother passed away when we were on

our honeymoon. And his stepfather passed away right before I was

diagnosed with hypothyroidism. So he has been grieving, dealing

with difficult family members, executing the estate in Los Angeles,

working and lately-- taking care of me.

We've been through a lot of new territory this

year.

What has been particularly sticky about figuring out this

illness, is that my mother is adopted and my parents divorced when I

was four.

My mother's parents' medical history is completely

unknown. She has the potential to be extremely erratic, but she

refuses to take antidepressants. She has suffered from fatigue

since her teens. And her thyroid was tested two years ago, her

GP proclaimed her normal-- she has a really good GP, but I don't think

he knows what he's doing in this situation.

My father is deceased and I didn't know him, or his

medical history. He had undiagnosed mental illness, which manifested

in a drinking/drug problem and erratic behavior. He died young--

47. I don't know the cause. It could easily have been

thyroid related, for all I know.

As you can guess, I've carefully monitored my own mental

health since I was a teenager, and I sought therapy when it was

needed. I've had really good mental health care, and as of yet,

have not been diagnosed with a clinical mental illness.

In addition to these issues, my original test results

BEFORE I took any medications showed that I had a normal T4, and an

abnormal TSH. Of course, that means my T3 must have been the

conundrum to start with. But, of course, those jerks gave me a

T4 medication, which, on top of other things, gave me thyroid symptoms

that I did not have previous to diagnosis.

The medications threw my normal T4 out of whack and

actually pushed it downward. So, not only was I missing T3, but

I was also losing T4 too. And my TSH was low. It's no

wonder I felt like somebody pushed me down 20 flights of

stairs!

This last appointment I MADE him do a thyroid antibody

test (haven't gotten results for that yet) and a Free T3.

(He was okay with doing both; he just didn't like my responses

regarding Armour.) I have the results, but no lab values, because I

got them over the phone--

They are:

TSH 4.84 (A week ago, it was at

..66)

T4 ,8 (Two weeks

ago, it was 1.1)

T3 94 (This is the first free T3

test I've had, ever.)

I am starting 30 mg. of Armour tomorrow, and I plan to

split the dose and take half in the morning and half in the

afternoon.

I have been off all meds for almost two weeks.

Despite some exhaustion, I've actually felt pretty good since the

Levoxyl left my system.

I also spoke with my Endo. today, and he seems much more

at ease than he did yesterday. I remembered something else he

said during the appointment that made me feel good later, " I will

keep trying and trying to fix this, with everything I

can. "

I am really, really sorry to hear about your brother.

I can no longer even pretend to understand the greater medical

establishment, especially when I hear stories like this one. I

feel deeply for your suffering and I'm sorry that you and your family

had to go through that experience.

Courtenay.

Yahoo!

Groups Sponsor

August 14, 2004

I have arachniphobia (sp?), so I'd prefer to think of them like on the former Pac Man board, hehe!

Re: doctor's appointment today/ pleased, but confused

The hypothalamus is part of the brain and it drives the pituitary, which controls all of the other glands.. . .which swallowed the spider that caught the fly. . .and lives in the house that Jack built. . . uh. . . .or wuz it the old lady who swallowed the fly?

August 14, 2004

I don't have much padding in my brain, but what IS that above what I wrote!!??

Re: doctor's appointment today/ pleased, but confused

I sort of remember the brain part, but the word "hypothalamus" always reminds me of the word "pachyderm". The elephant of the brain?

Your explanation makes loads more sense. Hee-hee.

The hypothalamus is part of the brain and it drives the pituitary, which controls all of the other glands.. . .which swallowed the spider that caught the fly. . .and lives in the house that Jack built. . . uh. . . .or wuz it the old lady who swallowed the fly?

wrote:

BLOCKQUOTE { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } DL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } UL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } OL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } LI { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px }

I am so glad that you had those antibodies tests run because they are the other major key. When you said that your TSH was going up, but the T4 was still normal, I had another thought, though just supposing. I'm wondering if your pituitary was urging your thyroid on to produce hormone that it COULD produce, at least at that time. I'm wondering if, as time went on, could it have turned int HYPERthyroidism, with a normally working gland, at the time. Did the doctor run BOTH antibodies, the antithyroidperoxidase AND the antithyroglobulin antibodies? Sometimes part of the problem can be both with a pituitary or hypothalamus that is out of control AND a gland that won't produce hormone, but I'm wondering if, at that point in time, could it have been the gland that was normal, but rather the hypothalamus driving the pituitary to produce more TSH, or both both the hypothalamus and the pituitary. I know, it's confusing, but in a normal gland, hormone WILL be produced in response to an out of control pituitary, that is, until the gland goes caput and is driven into a diseased state. Might want to ask Jan about this one, but there are other antibodies that denote Grave's Disease also, especially the ones to what, the TSH receptors? Grave's patients also have the antithyroidperoxidase antibody, I'm thinking. I have both of the first two mentioned in extremely high #s, in the thousands, but have never had the antibody tested for the Grave's antibodies. When the thyroid is "put to sleep" before any of these things are determined, it sometimes seems to be a "what if" situation. This is why I just don't give doctors any excuses when they go to treat this disease, because our lives, literally, are in their hands, and it is NOT simple, as many say. It affects your whole future. I am NOT going to be dismal though, because there is hope, and it's all been a learning experience that I never would have had, therefore, not sharing with other people and helping them.

August 14, 2004

I don't have much padding in my brain, but what IS that above what I wrote!!??

Re: doctor's appointment today/ pleased, but confused

I sort of remember the brain part, but the word "hypothalamus" always reminds me of the word "pachyderm". The elephant of the brain?

Your explanation makes loads more sense. Hee-hee.

The hypothalamus is part of the brain and it drives the pituitary, which controls all of the other glands.. . .which swallowed the spider that caught the fly. . .and lives in the house that Jack built. . . uh. . . .or wuz it the old lady who swallowed the fly?

wrote:

BLOCKQUOTE { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } DL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } UL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } OL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } LI { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px }

I am so glad that you had those antibodies tests run because they are the other major key. When you said that your TSH was going up, but the T4 was still normal, I had another thought, though just supposing. I'm wondering if your pituitary was urging your thyroid on to produce hormone that it COULD produce, at least at that time. I'm wondering if, as time went on, could it have turned int HYPERthyroidism, with a normally working gland, at the time. Did the doctor run BOTH antibodies, the antithyroidperoxidase AND the antithyroglobulin antibodies? Sometimes part of the problem can be both with a pituitary or hypothalamus that is out of control AND a gland that won't produce hormone, but I'm wondering if, at that point in time, could it have been the gland that was normal, but rather the hypothalamus driving the pituitary to produce more TSH, or both both the hypothalamus and the pituitary. I know, it's confusing, but in a normal gland, hormone WILL be produced in response to an out of control pituitary, that is, until the gland goes caput and is driven into a diseased state. Might want to ask Jan about this one, but there are other antibodies that denote Grave's Disease also, especially the ones to what, the TSH receptors? Grave's patients also have the antithyroidperoxidase antibody, I'm thinking. I have both of the first two mentioned in extremely high #s, in the thousands, but have never had the antibody tested for the Grave's antibodies. When the thyroid is "put to sleep" before any of these things are determined, it sometimes seems to be a "what if" situation. This is why I just don't give doctors any excuses when they go to treat this disease, because our lives, literally, are in their hands, and it is NOT simple, as many say. It affects your whole future. I am NOT going to be dismal though, because there is hope, and it's all been a learning experience that I never would have had, therefore, not sharing with other people and helping them.

August 14, 2004

Maybe a hypothalamus reminds you of a hippopotamus? How about a hypotenuse? Or a hippocampus. . . . which is not a fat farm. . . . wrote:

I don't have much padding in my brain, but what IS that above what I wrote!!??

Re: doctor's appointment today/ pleased, but confused

I sort of remember the brain part, but the word "hypothalamus" always reminds me of the word "pachyderm". The elephant of the brain?

Your explanation makes loads more sense. Hee-hee.

The hypothalamus is part of the brain and it drives the pituitary, which controls all of the other glands.. . .which swallowed the spider that caught the fly. . .and lives in the house that Jack built. . . uh. . . .or wuz it the old lady who swallowed the fly?

wrote:

BLOCKQUOTE { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } DL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } UL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } OL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } LI { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px }__________________________________________________

August 14, 2004

Maybe a hypothalamus reminds you of a hippopotamus? How about a hypotenuse? Or a hippocampus. . . . which is not a fat farm. . . . wrote:

I don't have much padding in my brain, but what IS that above what I wrote!!??

Re: doctor's appointment today/ pleased, but confused

I sort of remember the brain part, but the word "hypothalamus" always reminds me of the word "pachyderm". The elephant of the brain?

Your explanation makes loads more sense. Hee-hee.

The hypothalamus is part of the brain and it drives the pituitary, which controls all of the other glands.. . .which swallowed the spider that caught the fly. . .and lives in the house that Jack built. . . uh. . . .or wuz it the old lady who swallowed the fly?

wrote:

BLOCKQUOTE { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } DL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } UL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } OL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } LI { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px }__________________________________________________

August 14, 2004

I recognize hippocampus, hehe! But what is that block-padding whatcha ma call it down there? Oh yes, and what is a hypotenuse, or dare I ask?

Maybe a hypothalamus reminds you of a hippopotamus? How about a hypotenuse? Or a hippocampus. . . . which is not a fat farm. . . . wrote:

I don't have much padding in my brain, but what IS that above what I wrote!!??

Re: doctor's appointment today/ pleased, but confused

I sort of remember the brain part, but the word "hypothalamus" always reminds me of the word "pachyderm". The elephant of the brain?

Your explanation makes loads more sense. Hee-hee.

The hypothalamus is part of the brain and it drives the pituitary, which controls all of the other glands.. . .which swallowed the spider that caught the fly. . .and lives in the house that Jack built. . . uh. . . .or wuz it the old lady who swallowed the fly?

wrote:

BLOCKQUOTE { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } DL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } UL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } OL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } LI { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px }

August 14, 2004

I recognize hippocampus, hehe! But what is that block-padding whatcha ma call it down there? Oh yes, and what is a hypotenuse, or dare I ask?

Maybe a hypothalamus reminds you of a hippopotamus? How about a hypotenuse? Or a hippocampus. . . . which is not a fat farm. . . . wrote:

I don't have much padding in my brain, but what IS that above what I wrote!!??

Re: doctor's appointment today/ pleased, but confused

I sort of remember the brain part, but the word "hypothalamus" always reminds me of the word "pachyderm". The elephant of the brain?

Your explanation makes loads more sense. Hee-hee.

The hypothalamus is part of the brain and it drives the pituitary, which controls all of the other glands.. . .which swallowed the spider that caught the fly. . .and lives in the house that Jack built. . . uh. . . .or wuz it the old lady who swallowed the fly?

wrote:

BLOCKQUOTE { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } DL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } UL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } OL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } LI { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px }

August 14, 2004

Uh, maybe Arachnyendochronicititus, or maybe Agoraendoindaoffice, or Howtotakelegalactiononyourdoctor. Or Imsickofpayingyouforknowingnothingitis.

Re: doctor's appointment today/ pleased, but confused

Gee, , I have endophobia. Maybe we could have a support group for multiple phobias. wrote:

I have arachniphobia (sp?), so I'd prefer to think of them like on the former Pac Man board, hehe!

August 14, 2004

Uh, maybe Arachnyendochronicititus, or maybe Agoraendoindaoffice, or Howtotakelegalactiononyourdoctor. Or Imsickofpayingyouforknowingnothingitis.

Re: doctor's appointment today/ pleased, but confused

Gee, , I have endophobia. Maybe we could have a support group for multiple phobias. wrote:

I have arachniphobia (sp?), so I'd prefer to think of them like on the former Pac Man board, hehe!

August 16, 2004

Jan,

I had the Barium Swallow Test before they removed my thyroid... it

wasn't bad enough that they wanted me to swallow the nasty stuff,

they actually tilted me almost upside down, and wanted me to swallow

it that way!! Gross. Then had the nerve to tell me I had no room

left to swallow... doh!! No kidding, why not ask me, I could have

told you that.

Where do I join this support group??

Cathryn

> This is not unlike the postcard found in Arizona rest stop cafes

with the photo of the " jackalope. " You know, the jack rabbit with

antlers glued on. . . .

>

> But what I need right now is a support group for those suffering

from hideous diagnostic procedures. . . .The CT scan was not bad. It

only took 15 minutes. The barium swallow, however, reminded me of

those fraternity initiations in which a new member died as a result

of being forced to drink too much alcohol or swallow quantities of

raw liver. . . .After the Hideous Diagnostic Survivors Group, the

Managed Care Victims Group will meet in the same room to compare

disallowed services. . . .Hey, this is convenient. It is the same

folks for both groups! We can just call this the Hideously Managed

Procedures Group, which has many of the same issues as those who were

abducted by Aliens. . . .

>

> The only cure for endophobia is a good alternative doc. . . .

August 16, 2004