Re: Fibromyalgia and Fatigue Center, Dallas, TX

[Guest guest]

Hi Sara, and Welcome!

Many of us believe that these two " diseases " are actually " symptoms " of

thyroid disease. Many have proved it in their recoveries from these two,

when properly treated with the right med and amt of thyroid hormone.

Fibromyalgia and Fatigue Center, Dallas, TX

> Has anyone gone to the Fibromyalgia and Fatigue Center in Dallas, TX? I

> would like to know what you thought of your evaulation, blood work, and

> follow up consultation, plus any details or opinions you'd care to share

about

> physicians at this location, treatments, etc. Thanks! --Sara

[Guest guest]

Hi Sara, and Welcome!

Many of us believe that these two " diseases " are actually " symptoms " of

thyroid disease. Many have proved it in their recoveries from these two,

when properly treated with the right med and amt of thyroid hormone.

Fibromyalgia and Fatigue Center, Dallas, TX

> Has anyone gone to the Fibromyalgia and Fatigue Center in Dallas, TX? I

> would like to know what you thought of your evaulation, blood work, and

> follow up consultation, plus any details or opinions you'd care to share

about

> physicians at this location, treatments, etc. Thanks! --Sara

[Guest guest]

Hi Sara, and Welcome!

Many of us believe that these two " diseases " are actually " symptoms " of

thyroid disease. Many have proved it in their recoveries from these two,

when properly treated with the right med and amt of thyroid hormone.

Fibromyalgia and Fatigue Center, Dallas, TX

> Has anyone gone to the Fibromyalgia and Fatigue Center in Dallas, TX? I

> would like to know what you thought of your evaulation, blood work, and

> follow up consultation, plus any details or opinions you'd care to share

about

> physicians at this location, treatments, etc. Thanks! --Sara

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Jan. Here's some info for Roll Call and my health history:

I'm 55 years old, married, doing part time work in two businesses I'm

partner

in, no children. Mom and dad died when I was young, I was a late in

life baby,

no siblings, no one left with cognitive ability to ask about family

health history.

But I do remember my mom took med for thyroid. I was blessed with

great

health until mid-40s. Light smoker off and on from college to '84 and

quit.

Used to have maybe 6 glasses of wine a year at most, but caffeine

junkie for

sure. Personal and financial stresses took their toll in early 90s,

had

pneumonia, breast cysts, breast infections, and developed panic

disorder all

in '94-'95. Weighed 130s in my 30s, 140s and 150s in my 40s, then

ballooned

to 180s by 1995. Went through tranxene, xanax, paxil and

amitriptyline in

1995-1997 via HMO docs. Paxil was a nightmare experience that scared

me

and my husband to death so quit it, ended up withdrawing from xanax

and

just staying on amitriptyline for sleep. Panic disorder got better

over the years,

but I grew more drained and tired and couldn't exercise, dropped out

socially,

did less work. Had quit working in '95 and slowly re-entered in 1996

and back

to full time by 1997. Stayed fat and showed edema from meds, I

thought. Slept

10+ hours a night but didn't care, as long as I slept. Couldn't

sustain exercise.

Felt stressed continually. Dropped out socially, even vacations were

not worth

it. Was with HMO until 1997 - begged them to run hormone tests but

they

refused saying that since I was still menstruating and had no night

sweats,

there was no indication to do so. Was told to quit working so hard

and

exercise and diet. Finally had enough income in 1997 to quit HMO and

go to

private female doc. She ran TSH in '98 and saw thyroid problem.

Started

levoxyl but felt too revved up at 88mcg (sensitive to this if you

have panic

disorder!). Lowered it down to 50mcg. Got back up to 69mcg by 2000

since I

was still tired. Got off amitriptyline in late 2000 but had fibroid

tumor in uterus

in 2000, had hysteroscopy, got very anxious about surgery and started

clonazepam which really helped my panic disorder. Was on clonazepam

at

..50mg and 69 mcg levoxyl until sleep disturbances occurred in '02

after trip to

see friends in mountains in Colorado. Doc put me on

Pamelor/nortriptyline

and Vivelle Dot .0375 + Prometrium, as I needed to get some sleep

asap,

going crazy. Went up to 1.0 mg of clonazepam. Thought nortriptyline

was

taking care of sleep, so decided to slowly come off patch and see

what

happened. Got so tired I was on floor whimpering. Went back on .0375

patch

and felt much better. But still can't exercise, and get tired if I

try to do too much

work or running errands, etc. Going to store or Home Depot can just

wipe me

out. Have to take off some afternoons and just lay on the floor and

listen to

music. Becoming more house bound. Not agoraphobic, just tired of the

hassle

in getting around Dallas. Sleep has gone fairly well except when

stressed

from business issues. Health fortunately holding steady for now

except

continued weight problems (in the 190s now), incredible sweets

cravings,

right arm pain from computer work that won't heal, and ongoing

tiredness. My

blood pressure and heart rate went up with the nortriptyline (has

anyone else

had these reactions?) My doc is nice, but I think she's giving up on

me. So

when I saw an ad for the Fibro and Fatigue Center, I thought I'd get

evaluated.

Intensive 27 page questionnaire. First visit was a disappointment, I

felt. Ended

up getting supplements, and I hadn't even gotten my blood work back.

Didn't

feel they listened to me, nor read my ?aire much when the doc gave me

" energy " supplements. I told him not a great idea with panic

disorder! I will

await bloodwork and their follow up consult, and then consult with my

doc

before I do anything. Very worried about elevated cholesterol, bp and

heart

rate over last two years.

(fyi - I'm a statistical " outlier " per my gyn, as I am still having

infrequent periods

at 55. From age 11 to about age 50 I was regular as clockwork.)

I am currently going to Dr. Ellen Bluntzer, whom I like very

much, and I

think she's dogged in her desire to see what's wrong with you. But I

don't

know if she's really supporting me as much as I'd like about the

tiredness and

other issues - she just tells me I need to diet and get more

exercise, heart rate

will come down, rate in the 90s not worrisome to her right now. I

can't seem to

get through to her that I'm too tired to do it!!

You have a very informative group here and I look forward to reading

the

posts and learning.

I will let you know my F & F results and advice, and what Dr. Bluntzer

and I

decide to do. I will hopefully have a plan put together by August.

Sorry if I rambled on too much. Good luck to all -

[Guest guest]

Jan --

Sorry, forgot to say that when diagnosed with hypothyroid condition

in '98, my

TSH was about 4.85. I've been in the 1.50 range and now a little over

2.00.

I'm not very knowledgeable about the T3 and T4 issues. My doc doesn't

explain much.

Sara

[Guest guest]

No, never told of either. Maybe info will be on Fibro and Fatigue

Center blood

work. I see 48 tests ordered on my blood including TSH Ultrasens, T4

free, T3

free, Reverse T3, TSH Receptor AB, Throid Peroxidase AB, Throglubulin

AB.

Anything else you think I need to look for on the list?

Only see TSH number on old blood work through Lab Corps.

Sara

[Guest guest]

I take it that you had been to the Fibro Fatigue center and were not helped?rgrprop wrote:

No, never told of either. Maybe info will be on Fibro and FatigueCenter blood work. I see 48 tests ordered on my blood including TSH Ultrasens, T4free, T3 free, Reverse T3, TSH Receptor AB, Throid Peroxidase AB, ThroglubulinAB. Anything else you think I need to look for on the list?Only see TSH number on old blood work through Lab Corps.Sara__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I take it that you had been to the Fibro Fatigue center and were not helped?rgrprop wrote:

No, never told of either. Maybe info will be on Fibro and FatigueCenter blood work. I see 48 tests ordered on my blood including TSH Ultrasens, T4free, T3 free, Reverse T3, TSH Receptor AB, Throid Peroxidase AB, ThroglubulinAB. Anything else you think I need to look for on the list?Only see TSH number on old blood work through Lab Corps.Sara__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Just got started with them. They gave me supplements in the first

consult, a

diary to log my nutrition, moods, pain, tiredness levels, sleep, etc.

and a

handbook full of info. I've been preoccupied with our business and

haven't

started the diary or the handbook. I won't start supplements or any

meds until I

see my main doc. I still have blood work being done by F & F, and I go

back on

7/13 for follow up review and consult. My doc was pretty skeptical of

diagnosing off a questionnaire, and I was uncomfortable with their

pushing

supplements on me. I am very uncomfortable being told to take things

when

they haven't even gotten my labs back. It will be interesting to see

what the

follow up is all about. I didn't feel they spent nearly enough time

with me in the

first visit. The RN spent about 15 minutes asking me some of the same

questions that I had answered in the questionnaire, while the doc

reviewed it

in his office (why couldn't I have mailed it in so he would have had

more time

to read it??). The doc spoke with me about 20 minutes, it seemed,

then went

away to gather the supplements. He spent 10 minutes explaining the

supplements and then I paid and left. Their paperwork about the

supplements

doesn't seem thorough enough -- no real explanations of what the meds

are

supposed to do - very limited. Right now I am not satisfied at their

level of

medical professionalism, but I will wait to see what the labs come up

with and

the final consult. Then I will take the labs to my doc and see what

she thinks

about their findings and recommendations. If she wants, she can do

her own

labs and we'll compare. The F & F just opened in January I understand.

-- Sara

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just got started with them. They gave me supplements in the first

consult, a

diary to log my nutrition, moods, pain, tiredness levels, sleep, etc.

and a

handbook full of info. I've been preoccupied with our business and

haven't

started the diary or the handbook. I won't start supplements or any

meds until I

see my main doc. I still have blood work being done by F & F, and I go

back on

7/13 for follow up review and consult. My doc was pretty skeptical of

diagnosing off a questionnaire, and I was uncomfortable with their

pushing

supplements on me. I am very uncomfortable being told to take things

when

they haven't even gotten my labs back. It will be interesting to see

what the

follow up is all about. I didn't feel they spent nearly enough time

with me in the

first visit. The RN spent about 15 minutes asking me some of the same

questions that I had answered in the questionnaire, while the doc

reviewed it

in his office (why couldn't I have mailed it in so he would have had

more time

to read it??). The doc spoke with me about 20 minutes, it seemed,

then went

away to gather the supplements. He spent 10 minutes explaining the

supplements and then I paid and left. Their paperwork about the

supplements

doesn't seem thorough enough -- no real explanations of what the meds

are

supposed to do - very limited. Right now I am not satisfied at their

level of

medical professionalism, but I will wait to see what the labs come up

with and

the final consult. Then I will take the labs to my doc and see what

she thinks

about their findings and recommendations. If she wants, she can do

her own

labs and we'll compare. The F & F just opened in January I understand.

-- Sara

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jan and board - I had my 2nd consult with Fibro & Fatigue Center in Dallas =

Wednesday and got results of labs. Here are the main readings: (excuse the =

long post but didn't want to leave out anything.) Let me know if you want t=

o

look at any other reading.

• I think the biggest standout of all was my " thyroid peroxidase antibodies=

"

result which was 46, when normal is shown as <2 IU/ML. He said this showed =

Hashimoto's.

• My thyroglobulin antibodies value was high at 10 with the normal <2. He

said it's showing that my body is attacking the " bus " that carries the good=

thryoid stuff to the cells.

• the lab screwed up and didn't run the reverse T3 test, so I had another b=

lood

draw and they will get it back next week. I will post when I have it.

• Free T4 was 1.1 (.8-1.8) and he wanted to see 1.5

• Vit B12 was a tad low at 510 (200-1100)

• Free T3 was 260 (230-420) and he said it was 100 pts low from his target

• my TSH has gone from 6.73 in April '00 (prior to any meds) to 1.41 in Apr=

il

'02 (.75mcg levoxyl) to 2.05 (.69 mcg) last summer to now 3.84 (.40 - 5.5),=

so I

guess I'm in hypo territory again for me .

• it appears my Quaker Oats oatmeal for breakfast test worked well. I had

been eating 1-1/2 cups of oatmeal for 99% of my breakfasts since February, =

and my total cholesterol went down since last summer from 229 to 201 (<

200), and my LDL went down from 155 to 118 (<130) and my HDL dropped

just a tad from 47 to 46 (> or = 40). Only bad reading was my triglycerides=

which went from 132 to 184 which is very high (<150). He said with better d=

iet

and more fiber and exercise I could help this. My CHOL/HDLC ratio was 4.4

which is right on the cusp where they want it less than 4.4, so hopefully w=

ith

diet changes and supplements I can get this lower.

• Immunoglobulin M was high at 317 (48-271), and he said possibly

something was going on with a low grade infection but he wasn't worried.

Could be my terrible dentist avoidance for years or my ongoing vaginal

discharge is what it's reading. Discharge was described as a strep variety =

and

doc's wouldn't do anything more after trying various things. He said the yu=

gurt

douche might help and I will look into it.

• DHEA S was a little low at 89 (39-183 for my age)

• Pregnenolone (he said it's another " precursor " like DHEA but I forgot wha=

t

he said that meant) was a little low at 16 (10-230 for female)

• FSH was 44.6 which he said was a little high, LH was 25.9 which he though=

t

was high, progesterone was 4.0 which he thought a tad low, and total

testosterone was a little low at 14 (he prefers 40-50), free testosterone w=

as

low at 2.6 and he wanted at 6.0. Didn't really know what to make of all thi=

s, as

reference ranges are confusing and he went through them pretty fast.

Estradiol was a little low at 16. I am on lowest dose patch and lowest dose=

progestin. Will talk to regular doc in a couple of weeks to discuss.

• cortisols - total 15.1 (8-10am, 5-21) and free 1.22 (8-10am, .40-1.92) we=

re

fine

• lipoproteins were high at 71 (< or = 30) which he was concerned about, sa=

id

that leads to more cell clotting, but I can improve with fish oil and bette=

r diet

• sedimentation rate was high at 27 (< or = 20), and he said I was having a=

lot

of inflammation going on with heart and clotting of cells, need fish oils

• my " cardio CRP " was very high and he had concern. It was 6.6 (high=3.1-

10.0) which put me in High Cardiovascular Risk range. Recommended fish oil =

and diet adjustment, as well as exercise, hopefully, when I get thyroid iss=

ues

addressed and can get back to walking again. Diet has been bad except for

breakfast, and I'm sure the anxiety disorder I've had for 13 years has stre=

ssed

my system. At least I can change the diet for now.

Blood pressure is still high at 150/75-80 (in any doc's office), but they o=

nly

took one reading. I get anxious at dr's visits. BP on auto cuff at home thi=

s

spring ranged from 119/70 to 140s/80s at home, depending on stress and

time of day. If I take 3 readings a couple of minutes apart, the bp falls t=

o better

ranges. Husband took our cuff to doc's office to check it for him and it wa=

s

reading way higher than hers. She told us to throw out auto cuff bp device =

and

get mercury device. Will calibrate in her office when I see her.

I have concern over rapid pulse versus two years ago. I used to be in 72-78=

range resting and good recovery rate after walking. Then after I started

nortriptyline in '02, I've been in 90s during day, and in 100 to 112 in doc=

's

offices. Can only get into low 80s if extremely relaxed or first thing in m=

orning

before I get out of bed. I'm concerned about taking more thyroid med while =

pulse is still this high. My primary doc thinks I need to exercise more and=

still

doesn't " get it " that I'm too tired to do it. Frustrated with her about thi=

s. Anyone

else with higher pulse rate on these sorts of meds?

Weight increased from 140s to 150s in the 1980s and then shot up to 180s by=

1991. (I am 5' 4-1/2 " and 56 yrs old) I've stayed in 180s for a long time, =

except

for drop to 155 within 30 days when very sick with anxiety disorder and too=

k

Paxil in 1995. Dipped to 172 on diet for 3 months in 2002, then back to 180=

s.

Have ballooned from 181 to 200 since last November. Sweets cravings

became insane, and I've just not cared about fixing or eating proper food. =

Lots

of take out. Feel " stupefied " by meds and have lost control. Only felt good=

when I had a pint of Hagen Daz, popcorn, and a good movie on a weekend

night. But blood work results have scared me back on track for now.

I'd like to know more about Hashimoto's Thyroiditis versus the plain

hypothyroidism that my doc has treated until now. Can you lead me to any

particular posts in the TX Thyroid Group or a link to good information? I'v=

e

only been treated with the levoxyl (and soon a new generic which I just got=

--

anyone on it yet?). What I found on some websites didn't say much about

treatment for Hashi's other than taking what I'm on. Very confusing. Doc at=

F &

F said there were other meds that deal with T4 and T3 to address the

Hashimoto's. He does not like Armour. I hadn't even asked him but he told m=

e

up front. (Do they want to push their own meds at the Center? He kept

mentioning the supps and meds they have...hmmmm) I would appreciate

anyone's knowledge of this, as I don't remember doc's lecture on how thyroi=

d

works and his little diagram. I am waiting on the reverse T3 results (what =

might this show?) and will be going to my regular doc with these labs to se=

e if

she wants to run anything again with her lab to double check.

I'd like to know how any of you folks with Hashi's have been treated, with =

what

meds, and if I can possibly look forward to getting this disease managed an=

d

feel better again - is there a decent success rate? How long does it take? =

I'm

hoping the nortriptyline, clonazepam, and HRT meds are just treating the

symptoms of the thyroid problems and I can get rid of all of them. Want to =

get

out and walk and walk and walk and get this horrid weight off. And have my =

regular brain back -- well, not all of it... :-)

I am thankful that at least with current meds I am not feeling depressed, I=

can

sleep (too much), I can do some work, and I can get out and enjoy some

recreation at a low level. But this is so far from where I was 15 years ago=

..

Many thanks for this site....you all are very courageous and giving of your=

time......Sara

Jan - went through all the July posts and read about your ordeal. I hope yo=

u

are doing ok for now while you wait. Appreciate your devotion to all of us =

in

the midst of what your facing. You're a true Iron Woman!

You can see the post I made just before this. =

I

don't have the blood

> work back.

[Guest guest]

I will tell you upfront that I think that you either need the Armour or T3

added to your T4. I'm going to lean more t'wd the Armour because of what

you said about inflammation, etc.....i.e., you may be alllergic to something

in the synthetic fillers, especially if you are sensitive to other things

also (the IgM he did). T3 is known to thin the blood in a healthy manner,

and it looks evident to me that you're not working on much T3 in your cells.

Where you talked about the pregnenolone and other adrenal substances

(progesterone, estrogens, all except the cortisol), yes, pregnenolone is the

vast precursor for many of these things, as well as progesterone. You

probably need both. I am very wary of estrogen, as we do continue to make

it all our lives, and, even though it may be low, it is STILL estrogen

dominance without progesterone to balance it out. Blood tests for these are

also only a " snapshot in time " , as opposed to saliva tests, which show the

tissue concentrations and what your body is actually doing with the blood

serum values. You need to test for nutrient deficiencies also, as in my

case, with the B12, Folic Acid, B5, B6, and possibly some others. The

former ones are sometimes the ones we're most short on in chronic thyroid

disease. Ferritin also. Why does this doc not like the Armour? It looks

like, from your lab values, that it would be perfect for you, unLESS you're

allergic to port products. Have you been tested for AntiDNA antibodies

(lupus)? The ANA may be negative, but is not that specific for lupus. The

high sedamentation rate is the one I'm referring to on this one. Many docs

do not know that this one (AntiDNA) is more specific for lupus, though it

may not be the only autoimmune disease to consider with an abnormal reading

on this.

Re: Fibromyalgia and Fatigue Center, Dallas,

TX

> Jan and board - I had my 2nd consult with Fibro & Fatigue Center in Dallas

=

>

> Wednesday and got results of labs. Here are the main readings: (excuse the

=

>

> long post but didn't want to leave out anything.) Let me know if you want

t=

> o

> look at any other reading.

>

> . I think the biggest standout of all was my " thyroid peroxidase

antibodies=

> "

> result which was 46, when normal is shown as <2 IU/ML. He said this showed

=

>

> Hashimoto's.

> . My thyroglobulin antibodies value was high at 10 with the normal <2. He

> said it's showing that my body is attacking the " bus " that carries the

good=

>

> thryoid stuff to the cells.

> . the lab screwed up and didn't run the reverse T3 test, so I had another

b=

> lood

> draw and they will get it back next week. I will post when I have it.

> . Free T4 was 1.1 (.8-1.8) and he wanted to see 1.5

> . Vit B12 was a tad low at 510 (200-1100)

> . Free T3 was 260 (230-420) and he said it was 100 pts low from his target

> . my TSH has gone from 6.73 in April '00 (prior to any meds) to 1.41 in

Apr=

> il

> '02 (.75mcg levoxyl) to 2.05 (.69 mcg) last summer to now 3.84 (.40 -

5.5),=

> so I

> guess I'm in hypo territory again for me .

> . it appears my Quaker Oats oatmeal for breakfast test worked well. I had

> been eating 1-1/2 cups of oatmeal for 99% of my breakfasts since February,

=

>

> and my total cholesterol went down since last summer from 229 to 201 (<

> 200), and my LDL went down from 155 to 118 (<130) and my HDL dropped

> just a tad from 47 to 46 (> or = 40). Only bad reading was my

triglycerides=

>

> which went from 132 to 184 which is very high (<150). He said with better

d=

> iet

> and more fiber and exercise I could help this. My CHOL/HDLC ratio was 4.4

> which is right on the cusp where they want it less than 4.4, so hopefully

w=

> ith

> diet changes and supplements I can get this lower.

> . Immunoglobulin M was high at 317 (48-271), and he said possibly

> something was going on with a low grade infection but he wasn't worried.

> Could be my terrible dentist avoidance for years or my ongoing vaginal

> discharge is what it's reading. Discharge was described as a strep variety

=

> and

> doc's wouldn't do anything more after trying various things. He said the

yu=

> gurt

> douche might help and I will look into it.

> . DHEA S was a little low at 89 (39-183 for my age)

> . Pregnenolone (he said it's another " precursor " like DHEA but I forgot

wha=

> t

> he said that meant) was a little low at 16 (10-230 for female)

> . FSH was 44.6 which he said was a little high, LH was 25.9 which he

though=

> t

> was high, progesterone was 4.0 which he thought a tad low, and total

> testosterone was a little low at 14 (he prefers 40-50), free testosterone

w=

> as

> low at 2.6 and he wanted at 6.0. Didn't really know what to make of all

thi=

> s, as

> reference ranges are confusing and he went through them pretty fast.

> Estradiol was a little low at 16. I am on lowest dose patch and lowest

dose=

>

> progestin. Will talk to regular doc in a couple of weeks to discuss.

> . cortisols - total 15.1 (8-10am, 5-21) and free 1.22 (8-10am, .40-1.92)

we=

> re

> fine

> . lipoproteins were high at 71 (< or = 30) which he was concerned about,

sa=

> id

> that leads to more cell clotting, but I can improve with fish oil and

bette=

> r diet

> . sedimentation rate was high at 27 (< or = 20), and he said I was having

a=

> lot

> of inflammation going on with heart and clotting of cells, need fish oils

> . my " cardio CRP " was very high and he had concern. It was 6.6 (high=3.1-

> 10.0) which put me in High Cardiovascular Risk range. Recommended fish oil

=

>

> and diet adjustment, as well as exercise, hopefully, when I get thyroid

iss=

> ues

> addressed and can get back to walking again. Diet has been bad except for

> breakfast, and I'm sure the anxiety disorder I've had for 13 years has

stre=

> ssed

> my system. At least I can change the diet for now.

>

> Blood pressure is still high at 150/75-80 (in any doc's office), but they

o=

> nly

> took one reading. I get anxious at dr's visits. BP on auto cuff at home

thi=

> s

> spring ranged from 119/70 to 140s/80s at home, depending on stress and

> time of day. If I take 3 readings a couple of minutes apart, the bp falls

t=

> o better

> ranges. Husband took our cuff to doc's office to check it for him and it

wa=

> s

> reading way higher than hers. She told us to throw out auto cuff bp device

=

> and

> get mercury device. Will calibrate in her office when I see her.

>

> I have concern over rapid pulse versus two years ago. I used to be in

72-78=

>

> range resting and good recovery rate after walking. Then after I started

> nortriptyline in '02, I've been in 90s during day, and in 100 to 112 in

doc=

> 's

> offices. Can only get into low 80s if extremely relaxed or first thing in

m=

> orning

> before I get out of bed. I'm concerned about taking more thyroid med while

=

>

> pulse is still this high. My primary doc thinks I need to exercise more

and=

> still

> doesn't " get it " that I'm too tired to do it. Frustrated with her about

thi=

> s. Anyone

> else with higher pulse rate on these sorts of meds?

>

> Weight increased from 140s to 150s in the 1980s and then shot up to 180s

by=

>

> 1991. (I am 5' 4-1/2 " and 56 yrs old) I've stayed in 180s for a long time,

=

> except

> for drop to 155 within 30 days when very sick with anxiety disorder and

too=

> k

> Paxil in 1995. Dipped to 172 on diet for 3 months in 2002, then back to

180=

> s.

> Have ballooned from 181 to 200 since last November. Sweets cravings

> became insane, and I've just not cared about fixing or eating proper food.

=

> Lots

> of take out. Feel " stupefied " by meds and have lost control. Only felt

good=

>

> when I had a pint of Hagen Daz, popcorn, and a good movie on a weekend

> night. But blood work results have scared me back on track for now.

>

> I'd like to know more about Hashimoto's Thyroiditis versus the plain

> hypothyroidism that my doc has treated until now. Can you lead me to any

> particular posts in the TX Thyroid Group or a link to good information?

I'v=

> e

> only been treated with the levoxyl (and soon a new generic which I just

got=

> --

> anyone on it yet?). What I found on some websites didn't say much about

> treatment for Hashi's other than taking what I'm on. Very confusing. Doc

at=

> F &

> F said there were other meds that deal with T4 and T3 to address the

> Hashimoto's. He does not like Armour. I hadn't even asked him but he told

m=

> e

> up front. (Do they want to push their own meds at the Center? He kept

> mentioning the supps and meds they have...hmmmm) I would appreciate

> anyone's knowledge of this, as I don't remember doc's lecture on how

thyroi=

> d

> works and his little diagram. I am waiting on the reverse T3 results (what

=

>

> might this show?) and will be going to my regular doc with these labs to

se=

> e if

> she wants to run anything again with her lab to double check.

>

> I'd like to know how any of you folks with Hashi's have been treated, with

=

> what

> meds, and if I can possibly look forward to getting this disease managed

an=

> d

> feel better again - is there a decent success rate? How long does it take?

=

> I'm

> hoping the nortriptyline, clonazepam, and HRT meds are just treating the

> symptoms of the thyroid problems and I can get rid of all of them. Want to

=

> get

> out and walk and walk and walk and get this horrid weight off. And have my

=

>

> regular brain back -- well, not all of it... :-)

>

> I am thankful that at least with current meds I am not feeling depressed,

I=

> can

> sleep (too much), I can do some work, and I can get out and enjoy some

> recreation at a low level. But this is so far from where I was 15 years

ago=

> .

>

> Many thanks for this site....you all are very courageous and giving of

your=

>

> time......Sara

>

> Jan - went through all the July posts and read about your ordeal. I hope y

o=

> u

> are doing ok for now while you wait. Appreciate your devotion to all of us

=

> in

> the midst of what your facing. You're a true Iron Woman!

[Guest guest]

I will tell you upfront that I think that you either need the Armour or T3

added to your T4. I'm going to lean more t'wd the Armour because of what

you said about inflammation, etc.....i.e., you may be alllergic to something

in the synthetic fillers, especially if you are sensitive to other things

also (the IgM he did). T3 is known to thin the blood in a healthy manner,

and it looks evident to me that you're not working on much T3 in your cells.

Where you talked about the pregnenolone and other adrenal substances

(progesterone, estrogens, all except the cortisol), yes, pregnenolone is the

vast precursor for many of these things, as well as progesterone. You

probably need both. I am very wary of estrogen, as we do continue to make

it all our lives, and, even though it may be low, it is STILL estrogen

dominance without progesterone to balance it out. Blood tests for these are

also only a " snapshot in time " , as opposed to saliva tests, which show the

tissue concentrations and what your body is actually doing with the blood

serum values. You need to test for nutrient deficiencies also, as in my

case, with the B12, Folic Acid, B5, B6, and possibly some others. The

former ones are sometimes the ones we're most short on in chronic thyroid

disease. Ferritin also. Why does this doc not like the Armour? It looks

like, from your lab values, that it would be perfect for you, unLESS you're

allergic to port products. Have you been tested for AntiDNA antibodies

(lupus)? The ANA may be negative, but is not that specific for lupus. The

high sedamentation rate is the one I'm referring to on this one. Many docs

do not know that this one (AntiDNA) is more specific for lupus, though it

may not be the only autoimmune disease to consider with an abnormal reading

on this.

Re: Fibromyalgia and Fatigue Center, Dallas,

TX

> Jan and board - I had my 2nd consult with Fibro & Fatigue Center in Dallas

=

>

> Wednesday and got results of labs. Here are the main readings: (excuse the

=

>

> long post but didn't want to leave out anything.) Let me know if you want

t=

> o

> look at any other reading.

>

> . I think the biggest standout of all was my " thyroid peroxidase

antibodies=

> "

> result which was 46, when normal is shown as <2 IU/ML. He said this showed

=

>

> Hashimoto's.

> . My thyroglobulin antibodies value was high at 10 with the normal <2. He

> said it's showing that my body is attacking the " bus " that carries the

good=

>

> thryoid stuff to the cells.

> . the lab screwed up and didn't run the reverse T3 test, so I had another

b=

> lood

> draw and they will get it back next week. I will post when I have it.

> . Free T4 was 1.1 (.8-1.8) and he wanted to see 1.5

> . Vit B12 was a tad low at 510 (200-1100)

> . Free T3 was 260 (230-420) and he said it was 100 pts low from his target

> . my TSH has gone from 6.73 in April '00 (prior to any meds) to 1.41 in

Apr=

> il

> '02 (.75mcg levoxyl) to 2.05 (.69 mcg) last summer to now 3.84 (.40 -

5.5),=

> so I

> guess I'm in hypo territory again for me .

> . it appears my Quaker Oats oatmeal for breakfast test worked well. I had

> been eating 1-1/2 cups of oatmeal for 99% of my breakfasts since February,

=

>

> and my total cholesterol went down since last summer from 229 to 201 (<

> 200), and my LDL went down from 155 to 118 (<130) and my HDL dropped

> just a tad from 47 to 46 (> or = 40). Only bad reading was my

triglycerides=

>

> which went from 132 to 184 which is very high (<150). He said with better

d=

> iet

> and more fiber and exercise I could help this. My CHOL/HDLC ratio was 4.4

> which is right on the cusp where they want it less than 4.4, so hopefully

w=

> ith

> diet changes and supplements I can get this lower.

> . Immunoglobulin M was high at 317 (48-271), and he said possibly

> something was going on with a low grade infection but he wasn't worried.

> Could be my terrible dentist avoidance for years or my ongoing vaginal

> discharge is what it's reading. Discharge was described as a strep variety

=

> and

> doc's wouldn't do anything more after trying various things. He said the

yu=

> gurt

> douche might help and I will look into it.

> . DHEA S was a little low at 89 (39-183 for my age)

> . Pregnenolone (he said it's another " precursor " like DHEA but I forgot

wha=

> t

> he said that meant) was a little low at 16 (10-230 for female)

> . FSH was 44.6 which he said was a little high, LH was 25.9 which he

though=

> t

> was high, progesterone was 4.0 which he thought a tad low, and total

> testosterone was a little low at 14 (he prefers 40-50), free testosterone

w=

> as

> low at 2.6 and he wanted at 6.0. Didn't really know what to make of all

thi=

> s, as

> reference ranges are confusing and he went through them pretty fast.

> Estradiol was a little low at 16. I am on lowest dose patch and lowest

dose=

>

> progestin. Will talk to regular doc in a couple of weeks to discuss.

> . cortisols - total 15.1 (8-10am, 5-21) and free 1.22 (8-10am, .40-1.92)

we=

> re

> fine

> . lipoproteins were high at 71 (< or = 30) which he was concerned about,

sa=

> id

> that leads to more cell clotting, but I can improve with fish oil and

bette=

> r diet

> . sedimentation rate was high at 27 (< or = 20), and he said I was having

a=

> lot

> of inflammation going on with heart and clotting of cells, need fish oils

> . my " cardio CRP " was very high and he had concern. It was 6.6 (high=3.1-

> 10.0) which put me in High Cardiovascular Risk range. Recommended fish oil

=

>

> and diet adjustment, as well as exercise, hopefully, when I get thyroid

iss=

> ues

> addressed and can get back to walking again. Diet has been bad except for

> breakfast, and I'm sure the anxiety disorder I've had for 13 years has

stre=

> ssed

> my system. At least I can change the diet for now.

>

> Blood pressure is still high at 150/75-80 (in any doc's office), but they

o=

> nly

> took one reading. I get anxious at dr's visits. BP on auto cuff at home

thi=

> s

> spring ranged from 119/70 to 140s/80s at home, depending on stress and

> time of day. If I take 3 readings a couple of minutes apart, the bp falls

t=

> o better

> ranges. Husband took our cuff to doc's office to check it for him and it

wa=

> s

> reading way higher than hers. She told us to throw out auto cuff bp device

=

> and

> get mercury device. Will calibrate in her office when I see her.

>

> I have concern over rapid pulse versus two years ago. I used to be in

72-78=

>

> range resting and good recovery rate after walking. Then after I started

> nortriptyline in '02, I've been in 90s during day, and in 100 to 112 in

doc=

> 's

> offices. Can only get into low 80s if extremely relaxed or first thing in

m=

> orning

> before I get out of bed. I'm concerned about taking more thyroid med while

=

>

> pulse is still this high. My primary doc thinks I need to exercise more

and=

> still

> doesn't " get it " that I'm too tired to do it. Frustrated with her about

thi=

> s. Anyone

> else with higher pulse rate on these sorts of meds?

>

> Weight increased from 140s to 150s in the 1980s and then shot up to 180s

by=

>

> 1991. (I am 5' 4-1/2 " and 56 yrs old) I've stayed in 180s for a long time,

=

> except

> for drop to 155 within 30 days when very sick with anxiety disorder and

too=

> k

> Paxil in 1995. Dipped to 172 on diet for 3 months in 2002, then back to

180=

> s.

> Have ballooned from 181 to 200 since last November. Sweets cravings

> became insane, and I've just not cared about fixing or eating proper food.

=

> Lots

> of take out. Feel " stupefied " by meds and have lost control. Only felt

good=

>

> when I had a pint of Hagen Daz, popcorn, and a good movie on a weekend

> night. But blood work results have scared me back on track for now.

>

> I'd like to know more about Hashimoto's Thyroiditis versus the plain

> hypothyroidism that my doc has treated until now. Can you lead me to any

> particular posts in the TX Thyroid Group or a link to good information?

I'v=

> e

> only been treated with the levoxyl (and soon a new generic which I just

got=

> --

> anyone on it yet?). What I found on some websites didn't say much about

> treatment for Hashi's other than taking what I'm on. Very confusing. Doc

at=

> F &

> F said there were other meds that deal with T4 and T3 to address the

> Hashimoto's. He does not like Armour. I hadn't even asked him but he told

m=

> e

> up front. (Do they want to push their own meds at the Center? He kept

> mentioning the supps and meds they have...hmmmm) I would appreciate

> anyone's knowledge of this, as I don't remember doc's lecture on how

thyroi=

> d

> works and his little diagram. I am waiting on the reverse T3 results (what

=

>

> might this show?) and will be going to my regular doc with these labs to

se=

> e if

> she wants to run anything again with her lab to double check.

>

> I'd like to know how any of you folks with Hashi's have been treated, with

=

> what

> meds, and if I can possibly look forward to getting this disease managed

an=

> d

> feel better again - is there a decent success rate? How long does it take?

=

> I'm

> hoping the nortriptyline, clonazepam, and HRT meds are just treating the

> symptoms of the thyroid problems and I can get rid of all of them. Want to

=

> get

> out and walk and walk and walk and get this horrid weight off. And have my

=

>

> regular brain back -- well, not all of it... :-)

>

> I am thankful that at least with current meds I am not feeling depressed,

I=

> can

> sleep (too much), I can do some work, and I can get out and enjoy some

> recreation at a low level. But this is so far from where I was 15 years

ago=

> .

>

> Many thanks for this site....you all are very courageous and giving of

your=

>

> time......Sara

>

> Jan - went through all the July posts and read about your ordeal. I hope y

o=

> u

> are doing ok for now while you wait. Appreciate your devotion to all of us

=

> in

> the midst of what your facing. You're a true Iron Woman!

[Guest guest]

I will tell you upfront that I think that you either need the Armour or T3

added to your T4. I'm going to lean more t'wd the Armour because of what

you said about inflammation, etc.....i.e., you may be alllergic to something

in the synthetic fillers, especially if you are sensitive to other things

also (the IgM he did). T3 is known to thin the blood in a healthy manner,

and it looks evident to me that you're not working on much T3 in your cells.

Where you talked about the pregnenolone and other adrenal substances

(progesterone, estrogens, all except the cortisol), yes, pregnenolone is the

vast precursor for many of these things, as well as progesterone. You

probably need both. I am very wary of estrogen, as we do continue to make

it all our lives, and, even though it may be low, it is STILL estrogen

dominance without progesterone to balance it out. Blood tests for these are

also only a " snapshot in time " , as opposed to saliva tests, which show the

tissue concentrations and what your body is actually doing with the blood

serum values. You need to test for nutrient deficiencies also, as in my

case, with the B12, Folic Acid, B5, B6, and possibly some others. The

former ones are sometimes the ones we're most short on in chronic thyroid

disease. Ferritin also. Why does this doc not like the Armour? It looks

like, from your lab values, that it would be perfect for you, unLESS you're

allergic to port products. Have you been tested for AntiDNA antibodies

(lupus)? The ANA may be negative, but is not that specific for lupus. The

high sedamentation rate is the one I'm referring to on this one. Many docs

do not know that this one (AntiDNA) is more specific for lupus, though it

may not be the only autoimmune disease to consider with an abnormal reading

on this.

Re: Fibromyalgia and Fatigue Center, Dallas,

TX

> Jan and board - I had my 2nd consult with Fibro & Fatigue Center in Dallas

=

>

> Wednesday and got results of labs. Here are the main readings: (excuse the

=

>

> long post but didn't want to leave out anything.) Let me know if you want

t=

> o

> look at any other reading.

>

> . I think the biggest standout of all was my " thyroid peroxidase

antibodies=

> "

> result which was 46, when normal is shown as <2 IU/ML. He said this showed

=

>

> Hashimoto's.

> . My thyroglobulin antibodies value was high at 10 with the normal <2. He

> said it's showing that my body is attacking the " bus " that carries the

good=

>

> thryoid stuff to the cells.

> . the lab screwed up and didn't run the reverse T3 test, so I had another

b=

> lood

> draw and they will get it back next week. I will post when I have it.

> . Free T4 was 1.1 (.8-1.8) and he wanted to see 1.5

> . Vit B12 was a tad low at 510 (200-1100)

> . Free T3 was 260 (230-420) and he said it was 100 pts low from his target

> . my TSH has gone from 6.73 in April '00 (prior to any meds) to 1.41 in

Apr=

> il

> '02 (.75mcg levoxyl) to 2.05 (.69 mcg) last summer to now 3.84 (.40 -

5.5),=

> so I

> guess I'm in hypo territory again for me .

> . it appears my Quaker Oats oatmeal for breakfast test worked well. I had

> been eating 1-1/2 cups of oatmeal for 99% of my breakfasts since February,

=

>

> and my total cholesterol went down since last summer from 229 to 201 (<

> 200), and my LDL went down from 155 to 118 (<130) and my HDL dropped

> just a tad from 47 to 46 (> or = 40). Only bad reading was my

triglycerides=

>

> which went from 132 to 184 which is very high (<150). He said with better

d=

> iet

> and more fiber and exercise I could help this. My CHOL/HDLC ratio was 4.4

> which is right on the cusp where they want it less than 4.4, so hopefully

w=

> ith

> diet changes and supplements I can get this lower.

> . Immunoglobulin M was high at 317 (48-271), and he said possibly

> something was going on with a low grade infection but he wasn't worried.

> Could be my terrible dentist avoidance for years or my ongoing vaginal

> discharge is what it's reading. Discharge was described as a strep variety

=

> and

> doc's wouldn't do anything more after trying various things. He said the

yu=

> gurt

> douche might help and I will look into it.

> . DHEA S was a little low at 89 (39-183 for my age)

> . Pregnenolone (he said it's another " precursor " like DHEA but I forgot

wha=

> t

> he said that meant) was a little low at 16 (10-230 for female)

> . FSH was 44.6 which he said was a little high, LH was 25.9 which he

though=

> t

> was high, progesterone was 4.0 which he thought a tad low, and total

> testosterone was a little low at 14 (he prefers 40-50), free testosterone

w=

> as

> low at 2.6 and he wanted at 6.0. Didn't really know what to make of all

thi=

> s, as

> reference ranges are confusing and he went through them pretty fast.

> Estradiol was a little low at 16. I am on lowest dose patch and lowest

dose=

>

> progestin. Will talk to regular doc in a couple of weeks to discuss.

> . cortisols - total 15.1 (8-10am, 5-21) and free 1.22 (8-10am, .40-1.92)

we=

> re

> fine

> . lipoproteins were high at 71 (< or = 30) which he was concerned about,

sa=

> id

> that leads to more cell clotting, but I can improve with fish oil and

bette=

> r diet

> . sedimentation rate was high at 27 (< or = 20), and he said I was having

a=

> lot

> of inflammation going on with heart and clotting of cells, need fish oils

> . my " cardio CRP " was very high and he had concern. It was 6.6 (high=3.1-

> 10.0) which put me in High Cardiovascular Risk range. Recommended fish oil

=

>

> and diet adjustment, as well as exercise, hopefully, when I get thyroid

iss=

> ues

> addressed and can get back to walking again. Diet has been bad except for

> breakfast, and I'm sure the anxiety disorder I've had for 13 years has

stre=

> ssed

> my system. At least I can change the diet for now.

>

> Blood pressure is still high at 150/75-80 (in any doc's office), but they

o=

> nly

> took one reading. I get anxious at dr's visits. BP on auto cuff at home

thi=

> s

> spring ranged from 119/70 to 140s/80s at home, depending on stress and

> time of day. If I take 3 readings a couple of minutes apart, the bp falls

t=

> o better

> ranges. Husband took our cuff to doc's office to check it for him and it

wa=

> s

> reading way higher than hers. She told us to throw out auto cuff bp device

=

> and

> get mercury device. Will calibrate in her office when I see her.

>

> I have concern over rapid pulse versus two years ago. I used to be in

72-78=

>

> range resting and good recovery rate after walking. Then after I started

> nortriptyline in '02, I've been in 90s during day, and in 100 to 112 in

doc=

> 's

> offices. Can only get into low 80s if extremely relaxed or first thing in

m=

> orning

> before I get out of bed. I'm concerned about taking more thyroid med while

=

>

> pulse is still this high. My primary doc thinks I need to exercise more

and=

> still

> doesn't " get it " that I'm too tired to do it. Frustrated with her about

thi=

> s. Anyone

> else with higher pulse rate on these sorts of meds?

>

> Weight increased from 140s to 150s in the 1980s and then shot up to 180s

by=

>

> 1991. (I am 5' 4-1/2 " and 56 yrs old) I've stayed in 180s for a long time,

=

> except

> for drop to 155 within 30 days when very sick with anxiety disorder and

too=

> k

> Paxil in 1995. Dipped to 172 on diet for 3 months in 2002, then back to

180=

> s.

> Have ballooned from 181 to 200 since last November. Sweets cravings

> became insane, and I've just not cared about fixing or eating proper food.

=

> Lots

> of take out. Feel " stupefied " by meds and have lost control. Only felt

good=

>

> when I had a pint of Hagen Daz, popcorn, and a good movie on a weekend

> night. But blood work results have scared me back on track for now.

>

> I'd like to know more about Hashimoto's Thyroiditis versus the plain

> hypothyroidism that my doc has treated until now. Can you lead me to any

> particular posts in the TX Thyroid Group or a link to good information?

I'v=

> e

> only been treated with the levoxyl (and soon a new generic which I just

got=

> --

> anyone on it yet?). What I found on some websites didn't say much about

> treatment for Hashi's other than taking what I'm on. Very confusing. Doc

at=

> F &

> F said there were other meds that deal with T4 and T3 to address the

> Hashimoto's. He does not like Armour. I hadn't even asked him but he told

m=

> e

> up front. (Do they want to push their own meds at the Center? He kept

> mentioning the supps and meds they have...hmmmm) I would appreciate

> anyone's knowledge of this, as I don't remember doc's lecture on how

thyroi=

> d

> works and his little diagram. I am waiting on the reverse T3 results (what

=

>

> might this show?) and will be going to my regular doc with these labs to

se=

> e if

> she wants to run anything again with her lab to double check.

>

> I'd like to know how any of you folks with Hashi's have been treated, with

=

> what

> meds, and if I can possibly look forward to getting this disease managed

an=

> d

> feel better again - is there a decent success rate? How long does it take?

=

> I'm

> hoping the nortriptyline, clonazepam, and HRT meds are just treating the

> symptoms of the thyroid problems and I can get rid of all of them. Want to

=

> get

> out and walk and walk and walk and get this horrid weight off. And have my

=

>

> regular brain back -- well, not all of it... :-)

>

> I am thankful that at least with current meds I am not feeling depressed,

I=

> can

> sleep (too much), I can do some work, and I can get out and enjoy some

> recreation at a low level. But this is so far from where I was 15 years

ago=

> .

>

> Many thanks for this site....you all are very courageous and giving of

your=

>

> time......Sara

>

> Jan - went through all the July posts and read about your ordeal. I hope y

o=

> u

> are doing ok for now while you wait. Appreciate your devotion to all of us

=

> in

> the midst of what your facing. You're a true Iron Woman!

[Guest guest]

Many thanks to you Jan, and also to . I will report on what my

primary

physician says in response to my blood work and F & F recommendations.

I

will get details on the med he is suggesting for the T3. I will ask

about the

hydrocortisone also.So glad to hear that my readings and symptoms

might

improve with new med regime.....Sara

> It appears that the doc in question has the right idea about the

Free Ts

needing to be a little higher. With all of your antibodies, you might

need them

even higher than he suggests to feel right.

>

> Your cholesterol should go down as your thyroid meds are optimized.

HDL/

LDL ratios are linked more to exercise than to diet.

>

> Your triglycerides will go down as your thyroid meds are optimized.

They

are not alarmingly high. A small elevation can be the result of what

you ate in

the last 24 hours.

>

> Your progesterone may be low despite your taking a progestin,

because

progestin is not progesterone. Only bio-equivalent progesterone and

estrogen shows up on the tests. And they are the only ones that

really help

your body.

>

> Testosterone is important, too. Having it optimized will help with

energy

levels and muscle tone as well as your sex life.

>

> DHEA is a precursor to testosterone and some other hormones.

> My doc would prescribe hydrocortisone for you with a morning

cortisol of

less than 20. He goes on the assumption that it will drop during the

day.

>

> With thyroid meds optimized, you should be able to drop the

antidepressants and other drugs, but not the HRT at your age. I would

strongly recommend to you switch to strictly bio-equivalent estrogen

and

progesterone, however.

>

[Guest guest]

Many thanks to you Jan, and also to . I will report on what my

primary

physician says in response to my blood work and F & F recommendations.

I

will get details on the med he is suggesting for the T3. I will ask

about the

hydrocortisone also.So glad to hear that my readings and symptoms

might

improve with new med regime.....Sara

> It appears that the doc in question has the right idea about the

Free Ts

needing to be a little higher. With all of your antibodies, you might

need them

even higher than he suggests to feel right.

>

> Your cholesterol should go down as your thyroid meds are optimized.

HDL/

LDL ratios are linked more to exercise than to diet.

>

> Your triglycerides will go down as your thyroid meds are optimized.

They

are not alarmingly high. A small elevation can be the result of what

you ate in

the last 24 hours.

>

> Your progesterone may be low despite your taking a progestin,

because

progestin is not progesterone. Only bio-equivalent progesterone and

estrogen shows up on the tests. And they are the only ones that

really help

your body.

>

> Testosterone is important, too. Having it optimized will help with

energy

levels and muscle tone as well as your sex life.

>

> DHEA is a precursor to testosterone and some other hormones.

> My doc would prescribe hydrocortisone for you with a morning

cortisol of

less than 20. He goes on the assumption that it will drop during the

day.

>

> With thyroid meds optimized, you should be able to drop the

antidepressants and other drugs, but not the HRT at your age. I would

strongly recommend to you switch to strictly bio-equivalent estrogen

and

progesterone, however.

>

[Guest guest]

Many thanks to you Jan, and also to . I will report on what my

primary

physician says in response to my blood work and F & F recommendations.

I

will get details on the med he is suggesting for the T3. I will ask

about the

hydrocortisone also.So glad to hear that my readings and symptoms

might

improve with new med regime.....Sara

> It appears that the doc in question has the right idea about the

Free Ts

needing to be a little higher. With all of your antibodies, you might

need them

even higher than he suggests to feel right.

>

> Your cholesterol should go down as your thyroid meds are optimized.

HDL/

LDL ratios are linked more to exercise than to diet.

>

> Your triglycerides will go down as your thyroid meds are optimized.

They

are not alarmingly high. A small elevation can be the result of what

you ate in

the last 24 hours.

>

> Your progesterone may be low despite your taking a progestin,

because

progestin is not progesterone. Only bio-equivalent progesterone and

estrogen shows up on the tests. And they are the only ones that

really help

your body.

>

> Testosterone is important, too. Having it optimized will help with

energy

levels and muscle tone as well as your sex life.

>

> DHEA is a precursor to testosterone and some other hormones.

> My doc would prescribe hydrocortisone for you with a morning

cortisol of

less than 20. He goes on the assumption that it will drop during the

day.

>

> With thyroid meds optimized, you should be able to drop the

antidepressants and other drugs, but not the HRT at your age. I would

strongly recommend to you switch to strictly bio-equivalent estrogen

and

progesterone, however.

>

[Guest guest]

and Jan - I got my Reverse T3 result back and it was 119 in a

range of

90-350. F & F Center doc said it was ok. He is recommending a T4+T3

combo

starting at .50 grain/10 days?, then .75/10, then 1.0/10 and then I

guess I'll see

how I do. He's still recommending that I start very slowly on a

testosterone

supplement in some sort of dose that goes under the tongue and

dissolves.

He said it could be divided into very small doses. My testosterone is

at the

very bottom of the range. If it helps with engergy and stamina, I'm

very

interested! My gp sort of thought about it in 5/02, when I was at 18,

but she

said she really didn't want to " go down that road " at that time. I

was having lots

of sleep issues and anxiety was building up, and I guess she didn't

want to

exacerbate anything until I was sleeping well via nortriptyline. We

didn't

discuss it again. But with my extremely low reading now, maybe she'll

go

along with it.

I've had to reschedule with her due to a personal emergency on her

part, so

am not going to have her opinion on the F & F Center's recommendations

until

the 19th. I sent her copies of everything on the blood work, and gave

her a

summary of my doc's recommendations. The F & F wouldn't write up the

" plan "

and send it to her, I guess due to their past experiences with others

taking

their customized plans. I didn't see anything that detailed or

special, but I

guess they can be paranoid if they want to.

The litany re the Armour is still that they view it as potentially

risky, possible

trans species problems, etc. They sort of likened it to the fears

about mad cow

disease, and " we just don't know what's going on yet. " They swore

they are

not affiliated with the compounding lab in Denver where I'd get the

T4/T3

meds, so I don't get the idea that they are trying to hand onto

profits. But one

never knows.....

If you want to review my lab results, I put them in post #6165.

Yes, I was a bit low on B12 per the doc.

No, I haven't been tested for the antiDNA antibodies for lupus. He

never

mentioned that he suspected that.

No, I'm not allergic to pork. Nothing that I've known causes me

allergies

except poison ivy, which I became allergic to over the last few

years. Didn't

bother me at all before. Not severe reaction, but I need to take Olux

foam to

get rid of it.

I would like to know how many of you started on synthetic T3 added to

your T4

and then switched to Armour. How long did it take to feel improvement

with

the syn T3 vs. Armour?

And to all, re testosterone, what have your experiences been with it,

if you had

really low readings like mine (14)? Do you have any suggestions on

what not

to do? I really am worried about getting " ramped up " on it,

considering my

past experience with anxiety disorder. I've been feeling a lot better

in that

arena lately, and hate to upset my system again.

One last question - how do I get on the list for any thyroid related

conferences

or meetings in Texas, North Texas in particular? Thanks - Sara

> I will tell you upfront that I think that you either need the

Armour or T3

> added to your T4. I'm going to lean more t'wd the Armour because

of what

> you said about inflammation, etc.....i.e., you may be alllergic to

something

> in the synthetic fillers, especially if you are sensitive to other

things

> also (the IgM he did). T3 is known to thin the blood in a healthy

manner,

> and it looks evident to me that you're not working on much T3 in

your cells.

> Where you talked about the pregnenolone and other adrenal substances

> (progesterone, estrogens, all except the cortisol), yes,

pregnenolone is the

> vast precursor for many of these things, as well as progesterone.

You

> probably need both. I am very wary of estrogen, as we do continue

to make

> it all our lives, and, even though it may be low, it is STILL

estrogen

> dominance without progesterone to balance it out. Blood tests for

these are

> also only a " snapshot in time " , as opposed to saliva tests, which

show the

> tissue concentrations and what your body is actually doing with the

blood

> serum values. You need to test for nutrient deficiencies also, as

in my

> case, with the B12, Folic Acid, B5, B6, and possibly some others.

The

> former ones are sometimes the ones we're most short on in chronic

thyroid

> disease. Ferritin also. Why does this doc not like the Armour?

It looks

> like, from your lab values, that it would be perfect for you,

unLESS you're

> allergic to port products. Have you been tested for AntiDNA

antibodies

> (lupus)? The ANA may be negative, but is not that specific for

lupus. The

> high sedamentation rate is the one I'm referring to on this one.

Many docs

> do not know that this one (AntiDNA) is more specific for lupus,

though it

> may not be the only autoimmune disease to consider with an abnormal

reading

> on this.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

and Jan - I got my Reverse T3 result back and it was 119 in a

range of

90-350. F & F Center doc said it was ok. He is recommending a T4+T3

combo

starting at .50 grain/10 days?, then .75/10, then 1.0/10 and then I

guess I'll see

how I do. He's still recommending that I start very slowly on a

testosterone

supplement in some sort of dose that goes under the tongue and

dissolves.

He said it could be divided into very small doses. My testosterone is

at the

very bottom of the range. If it helps with engergy and stamina, I'm

very

interested! My gp sort of thought about it in 5/02, when I was at 18,

but she

said she really didn't want to " go down that road " at that time. I

was having lots

of sleep issues and anxiety was building up, and I guess she didn't

want to

exacerbate anything until I was sleeping well via nortriptyline. We

didn't

discuss it again. But with my extremely low reading now, maybe she'll

go

along with it.

I've had to reschedule with her due to a personal emergency on her

part, so

am not going to have her opinion on the F & F Center's recommendations

until

the 19th. I sent her copies of everything on the blood work, and gave

her a

summary of my doc's recommendations. The F & F wouldn't write up the

" plan "

and send it to her, I guess due to their past experiences with others

taking

their customized plans. I didn't see anything that detailed or

special, but I

guess they can be paranoid if they want to.

The litany re the Armour is still that they view it as potentially

risky, possible

trans species problems, etc. They sort of likened it to the fears

about mad cow

disease, and " we just don't know what's going on yet. " They swore

they are

not affiliated with the compounding lab in Denver where I'd get the

T4/T3

meds, so I don't get the idea that they are trying to hand onto

profits. But one

never knows.....

If you want to review my lab results, I put them in post #6165.

Yes, I was a bit low on B12 per the doc.

No, I haven't been tested for the antiDNA antibodies for lupus. He

never

mentioned that he suspected that.

No, I'm not allergic to pork. Nothing that I've known causes me

allergies

except poison ivy, which I became allergic to over the last few

years. Didn't

bother me at all before. Not severe reaction, but I need to take Olux

foam to

get rid of it.

I would like to know how many of you started on synthetic T3 added to

your T4

and then switched to Armour. How long did it take to feel improvement

with

the syn T3 vs. Armour?

And to all, re testosterone, what have your experiences been with it,

if you had

really low readings like mine (14)? Do you have any suggestions on

what not

to do? I really am worried about getting " ramped up " on it,

considering my

past experience with anxiety disorder. I've been feeling a lot better

in that

arena lately, and hate to upset my system again.

One last question - how do I get on the list for any thyroid related

conferences

or meetings in Texas, North Texas in particular? Thanks - Sara

> I will tell you upfront that I think that you either need the

Armour or T3

> added to your T4. I'm going to lean more t'wd the Armour because

of what

> you said about inflammation, etc.....i.e., you may be alllergic to

something

> in the synthetic fillers, especially if you are sensitive to other

things

> also (the IgM he did). T3 is known to thin the blood in a healthy

manner,

> and it looks evident to me that you're not working on much T3 in

your cells.

> Where you talked about the pregnenolone and other adrenal substances

> (progesterone, estrogens, all except the cortisol), yes,

pregnenolone is the

> vast precursor for many of these things, as well as progesterone.

You

> probably need both. I am very wary of estrogen, as we do continue

to make

> it all our lives, and, even though it may be low, it is STILL

estrogen

> dominance without progesterone to balance it out. Blood tests for

these are

> also only a " snapshot in time " , as opposed to saliva tests, which

show the

> tissue concentrations and what your body is actually doing with the

blood

> serum values. You need to test for nutrient deficiencies also, as

in my

> case, with the B12, Folic Acid, B5, B6, and possibly some others.

The

> former ones are sometimes the ones we're most short on in chronic

thyroid

> disease. Ferritin also. Why does this doc not like the Armour?

It looks

> like, from your lab values, that it would be perfect for you,

unLESS you're

> allergic to port products. Have you been tested for AntiDNA

antibodies

> (lupus)? The ANA may be negative, but is not that specific for

lupus. The

> high sedamentation rate is the one I'm referring to on this one.

Many docs

> do not know that this one (AntiDNA) is more specific for lupus,

though it

> may not be the only autoimmune disease to consider with an abnormal

reading

> on this.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Jan, sent email to you.

Don't know ratio. What is a good one? I don't want to get jacked up

too fast. I

will ask him via message before I order anything and post his answer

here.

I've been on 69mcg Levoxyl for a couple of years and TSH rose from

2.04 to

3.85 over past year. Have been feeling better since I quit trying to

walk for

exercise and just settled for riding in golf cart with husband for

sunshine a

couple times a week, and curbed travel and social life. Also things

are a lot

better with our business situation, so I'm less stressed. I'm still

sleeping well,

even with lowering my nortrip from 40 to 30 mg over 3 months, because

I

couldn't think well enough to get through a day. Worst fear is

starting up

something too fast and having sleep disturbance again. Am taking

thyroid

med in evening right now. Maybe better to switch to morning?

Anxiety and panic attacks started in 1991 at low level, years before

I had any

tests done for thyroid. Gained a lot of weight 1988 to 1992. Attacks

peaked in

1995, several years before I ever got labs for TSH. I was with HMO,

which I

would gladly burn down if it was still in existence with same docs

inside. Was

handed over to psychiatric section and given antidepressants. I

begged for

hormone tests, but was refused since I was still menstruating and had

no hot

flashes. My mother had thyroid problems and they ignored it. Bottom

line,

make the HMO president rich, you know. Sorry, I'm still very bitter.

Levoxyl by

2000 with new doc and private insurance made me feel better, but I've

been

up and down in feeling good. I'm still way overweight, sluggish and

tired if I try

any exercise. Panic attacks not an issue now, thank goodness. I try

to manage

my energy drain and stress better now. And clonzepam helped

tremendously.

I'll look forward to any North Texas meetings coming up. Thanks. Sara

> The doses sound appropriate. What ratio of T4:T3 is he using?

>

> Testosterone can be a good thing for libido, energy,muscle tone,

and even

mood.

>

> Anxiety can be the result of over or undermedication.

>

> To be on the offline list, send me an email at txthyroid@y... .

Include first and

last name, email address that you want to appear on the list,

location and

phone number. Any meetings will be announced on our site, both as a

post

and at the end of the group description on the home page.

>

> Cathryn (Catwalk) is planning a Dallas meeting some time . . .

..When I get

my own health issues under control, we will have a meeting in

,

and maybe one in ville.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Jan, sent email to you.

Don't know ratio. What is a good one? I don't want to get jacked up

too fast. I

will ask him via message before I order anything and post his answer

here.

I've been on 69mcg Levoxyl for a couple of years and TSH rose from

2.04 to

3.85 over past year. Have been feeling better since I quit trying to

walk for

exercise and just settled for riding in golf cart with husband for

sunshine a

couple times a week, and curbed travel and social life. Also things

are a lot

better with our business situation, so I'm less stressed. I'm still

sleeping well,

even with lowering my nortrip from 40 to 30 mg over 3 months, because

I

couldn't think well enough to get through a day. Worst fear is

starting up

something too fast and having sleep disturbance again. Am taking

thyroid

med in evening right now. Maybe better to switch to morning?

Anxiety and panic attacks started in 1991 at low level, years before

I had any

tests done for thyroid. Gained a lot of weight 1988 to 1992. Attacks

peaked in

1995, several years before I ever got labs for TSH. I was with HMO,

which I

would gladly burn down if it was still in existence with same docs

inside. Was

handed over to psychiatric section and given antidepressants. I

begged for

hormone tests, but was refused since I was still menstruating and had

no hot

flashes. My mother had thyroid problems and they ignored it. Bottom

line,

make the HMO president rich, you know. Sorry, I'm still very bitter.

Levoxyl by

2000 with new doc and private insurance made me feel better, but I've

been

up and down in feeling good. I'm still way overweight, sluggish and

tired if I try

any exercise. Panic attacks not an issue now, thank goodness. I try

to manage

my energy drain and stress better now. And clonzepam helped

tremendously.

I'll look forward to any North Texas meetings coming up. Thanks. Sara

> The doses sound appropriate. What ratio of T4:T3 is he using?

>

> Testosterone can be a good thing for libido, energy,muscle tone,

and even

mood.

>

> Anxiety can be the result of over or undermedication.

>

> To be on the offline list, send me an email at txthyroid@y... .

Include first and

last name, email address that you want to appear on the list,

location and

phone number. Any meetings will be announced on our site, both as a

post

and at the end of the group description on the home page.

>

> Cathryn (Catwalk) is planning a Dallas meeting some time . . .

..When I get

my own health issues under control, we will have a meeting in

,

and maybe one in ville.

>

[Guest guest]

As a matter-of-fact, I am looking at the and Noble on

Northwest Highway at Central, or the Half Price Books on Northwest

Highway, just the other side of Central. They both have little cafe

areas. I am hoping the Dallas area people could meet sometime near

the end of August.

Guess this is as good a time as any to ask. How about a few

opinions? Weekend? Or weekday evening? What works best for you

gals? Guys welcomed, also. I think it's time we got together for a

little face to face time.

Cathryn

> The doses sound appropriate. What ratio of T4:T3 is he using?

>

> Testosterone can be a good thing for libido, energy,muscle tone,

and even mood.

>

> Anxiety can be the result of over or undermedication.

>

> To be on the offline list, send me an email at txthyroid@y... .

Include first and last name, email address that you want to appear on

the list, location and phone number. Any meetings will be announced

on our site, both as a post and at the end of the group description

on the home page.

>

> Cathryn (Catwalk) is planning a Dallas meeting some

time . . . .When I get my own health issues under control, we will

have a meeting in , and maybe one in ville.

>

[Guest guest]

As a matter-of-fact, I am looking at the and Noble on

Northwest Highway at Central, or the Half Price Books on Northwest

Highway, just the other side of Central. They both have little cafe

areas. I am hoping the Dallas area people could meet sometime near

the end of August.

Guess this is as good a time as any to ask. How about a few

opinions? Weekend? Or weekday evening? What works best for you

gals? Guys welcomed, also. I think it's time we got together for a

little face to face time.

Cathryn

> The doses sound appropriate. What ratio of T4:T3 is he using?

>

> Testosterone can be a good thing for libido, energy,muscle tone,

and even mood.

>

> Anxiety can be the result of over or undermedication.

>

> To be on the offline list, send me an email at txthyroid@y... .

Include first and last name, email address that you want to appear on

the list, location and phone number. Any meetings will be announced

on our site, both as a post and at the end of the group description

on the home page.

>

> Cathryn (Catwalk) is planning a Dallas meeting some

time . . . .When I get my own health issues under control, we will

have a meeting in , and maybe one in ville.

>

[Guest guest]

Either is fine with me. Will be out of town Aug. 22 to eve of 25th.

Weekday

evenings preferred. Thanks. --Sara

> As a matter-of-fact, I am looking at the and Noble on

> Northwest Highway at Central, or the Half Price Books on Northwest

> Highway, just the other side of Central. They both have little

cafe

> areas. I am hoping the Dallas area people could meet sometime near

> the end of August.

>

> Guess this is as good a time as any to ask. How about a few

> opinions? Weekend? Or weekday evening? What works best for you

> gals? Guys welcomed, also. I think it's time we got together for

a

> little face to face time.

>

> Cathryn

>

[Guest guest]

lol... okay, maybe next time... it probably would be a little much

for a first meeting. Now, for a second meeting...

Can you send me the offline list, please? I can poll them, as well

as inform them of the meeting once it is set up.

Thanks

Cathryn

> I am in favor of a quiet place. The book stores look like a good

option.

>