Re: Re: Depression & time to asse

[Guest guest]

SMR training wouldn't ordinarily be a training of choice for someone who is depressed. It seems to me that her energy levels are probably pretty much related to the depression (more depressed: lower energy; less depressed: higher energy, right?) It also seems that her energy levels are fluctuating in a pretty narrow band between less depressed and more depressed. My belief would be that we find out how the depression is programmed into the activation patterns and help start to unwind that.

Again, it's hard to say whether what you are doing is having much of an effect if she is stopping her meds mid-stream, so perhaps what you are doing is working fine. You mentioned " she wasn't drinking either day " kind of in passing. Does she drink or was this just an explanatory comment? If she's drinking at all, that will make it nearly impossible to get a good training result.

If I understood your table properly, based on those two subjective readings, when she sleeps well, she feels lousy; when she doesn't, she feels great. That's kind of interesting.

The point I was making about measuring at different times is that relationships (e.g. alpha/theta, theta/beta, front/back, left/right) don't usually change very much. I think I said that amplitudes are quite likely to change a lot. That's why the TLC works with relationships in the brain: they are stable and they tend to underlie stable behavior and mood states.

Pete

Pete,The protocol I've been using is a 1C one reward (13-15hz) two inhibits (2-10hz, 19-38hz) CZ/A1/g. This protocol wasn't on her TLC plan but after running through the list of options and getting minimal results, I went with intuition and a semi-educated guess and came up with the protocol listed above. After the first session her energy and quality of mood increased enough that every day after she would ask for the same protocol. My plan was to get her energy level stabilized, then go back to the protocols on the TLC plan and target the depression, beginning with T3. The reason I asked about when to assess was because of the difference in her amplitudes and depression from yesterday to today.Here is her info comparing two very different cognitive states. All scales are 1-10, worst-best, self report.

Sleep onset Sleep quality Energy Mood 4 8 2 0 (flat affect) 1/21/08 2 3 8 8.5 1/22/0812-15hz 2-10hz 19-38hz threshold settings 8u 73u 24u 1/21/08 5u 49u 23u 1/22/08

Yesterday she was so down her speech was slightly slurred.Today she is very up & happy & no slurred speech (she wasn't drinking either day)The change in the 2-10hz amplitudes was quite different and caused me to think about when to assess.

.. -- Van Deusen

pvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Hi

What I am finding here in New Zealand unfortunately is that a lot of middle aged woman have been

molested at an early age. The brain covers it up and they suffer depression

because of it. I generally ask clients if they can remember any incident. The last

woman that came to me had no recollection of molestation. She did an assessment

with me and went to a hypnotist that took her back and uncovered the molestation

in early childhood. She stopped coming to me so I assume she feels better. It

allows them to deal with the situation as an adult not a child. So the alpha

theta protocol may be in order as well.

Cheers Tony

Re:

Depression & time to asse

Good info,

No she doesn't drink - I just said it because I thought you might think

she was drunk after I mentioned slurred speech. The slurred speech is

probably from excess muscle relaxers.

The sleeping issue wasn't typical. Usually she feels worse with less

sleep and better with good sleep.

The client is HaTe. I I think I'll trust the master & go back to the

TLC plan.

>

> SMR training wouldn't ordinarily be a training of choice for someone

who is

> depressed. It seems to me that her energy levels are probably pretty

much

> related to the depression (more depressed: lower energy; less

depressed:

> higher energy, right?) It also seems that her energy levels are

fluctuating

> in a pretty narrow band between less depressed and more depressed. My

> belief would be that we find out how the depression is programmed into

the

> activation patterns and help start to unwind that.

>

> Again, it's hard to say whether what you are doing is having much of

an

> effect if she is stopping her meds mid-stream, so perhaps what you are

doing

> is working fine. You mentioned " she wasn't drinking either day "

kind

of in

> passing. Does she drink or was this just an explanatory comment? If

she's

> drinking at all, that will make it nearly impossible to get a good

training

> result.

>

> If I understood your table properly, based on those two subjective

readings,

> when she sleeps well, she feels lousy; when she doesn't, she feels

great.

> That's kind of interesting.

>

> The point I was making about measuring at different times is that

> relationships (e.g. alpha/theta, theta/beta, front/back, left/right)

don't

> usually change very much. I think I said that amplitudes are quite

likely

> to change a lot. That's why the TLC works with relationships in the

brain:

> they are stable and they tend to underlie stable behavior and mood

states.

>

> Pete

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Hi Tony

While that can be true, I tend towards being wary when the previously unremembered is retreived under hypnosis- a lot depends on whether the hypnotised patient is asked leading questions which then raises a false memory possibility.

Mark

RE: Re: Depression & time to asse

Hi

What I am finding here in New Zealand unfortunately is that a lot of middle aged woman have been molested at an early age. The brain covers it up and they suffer depression because of it. I generally ask clients if they can remember any incident. The last woman that came to me had no recollection of molestation. She did an assessment with me and went to a hypnotist that took her back and uncovered the molestation in early childhood. She stopped coming to me so I assume she feels better. It allows them to deal with the situation as an adult not a child. So the alpha theta protocol may be in order as well.

Cheers Tony

-----Original Message-----From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf Of bharney2002Sent: Wednesday, 23 January 2008 1:25 p.m.To: braintrainer Subject: Re: Depression & time to asse

Good info,No she doesn't drink - I just said it because I thought you might thinkshe was drunk after I mentioned slurred speech. The slurred speech isprobably from excess muscle relaxers.The sleeping issue wasn't typical. Usually she feels worse with lesssleep and better with good sleep.The client is HaTe. I I think I'll trust the master & go back to theTLC plan.>> SMR training wouldn't ordinarily be a training of choice for someonewho is> depressed. It seems to me that her energy levels are probably prettymuch> related to the depression (more depressed: lower energy; lessdepressed:> higher energy, right?) It also seems that her energy levels arefluctuating> in a pretty narrow band between less depressed and more depressed. My> belief would be that we find out how the depression is programmed intothe> activation patterns and help start to unwind that.>> Again, it's hard to say whether what you are doing is having much ofan> effect if she is stopping her meds mid-stream, so perhaps what you aredoing> is working fine. You mentioned "she wasn't drinking either day" kindof in> passing. Does she drink or was this just an explanatory comment? Ifshe's> drinking at all, that will make it nearly impossible to get a goodtraining> result.>> If I understood your table properly, based on those two subjectivereadings,> when she sleeps well, she feels lousy; when she doesn't, she feelsgreat.> That's kind of interesting.>> The point I was making about measuring at different times is that> relationships (e.g. alpha/theta, theta/beta, front/back, left/right)don't> usually change very much. I think I said that amplitudes are quitelikely> to change a lot. That's why the TLC works with relationships in thebrain:> they are stable and they tend to underlie stable behavior and moodstates.>> Pete>>

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.6 - Release Date: 1/17/2008 12:00 a.m.

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[Guest guest]

There is quite a bit of research on false memories and how hypnosis can

create them.

For a scholarly review, see " Remembering Trauma " by Harvard's

McNally

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/MCNREM.html

kirk

Mark Baddeley wrote:

>

> Hi Tony

> While that can be true, I tend towards being wary when the previously

> unremembered is retreived under hypnosis- a lot depends on whether the

> hypnotised patient is asked leading questions which then raises a

> false memory possibility.

> Mark

>

> * Re: Depression & time to asse

>

> Good info,

>

> No she doesn't drink - I just said it because I thought you might

> think

> she was drunk after I mentioned slurred speech. The slurred speech is

> probably from excess muscle relaxers.

>

> The sleeping issue wasn't typical. Usually she feels worse with less

> sleep and better with good sleep.

>

> The client is HaTe. I I think I'll trust the master & go back to the

> TLC plan.

>

>

> >

> > SMR training wouldn't ordinarily be a training of choice for someone

> who is

> > depressed. It seems to me that her energy levels are probably pretty

> much

> > related to the depression (more depressed: lower energy; less

> depressed:

> > higher energy, right?) It also seems that her energy levels are

> fluctuating

> > in a pretty narrow band between less depressed and more depressed. My

> > belief would be that we find out how the depression is programmed

> into

> the

> > activation patterns and help start to unwind that.

> >

> > Again, it's hard to say whether what you are doing is having much of

> an

> > effect if she is stopping her meds mid-stream, so perhaps what

> you are

> doing

> > is working fine. You mentioned " she wasn't drinking either day " kind

> of in

> > passing. Does she drink or was this just an explanatory comment? If

> she's

> > drinking at all, that will make it nearly impossible to get a good

> training

> > result.

> >

> > If I understood your table properly, based on those two subjective

> readings,

> > when she sleeps well, she feels lousy; when she doesn't, she feels

> great.

> > That's kind of interesting.

> >

> > The point I was making about measuring at different times is that

> > relationships (e.g. alpha/theta, theta/beta, front/back, left/right)

> don't

> > usually change very much. I think I said that amplitudes are quite

> likely

> > to change a lot. That's why the TLC works with relationships in the

> brain:

> > they are stable and they tend to underlie stable behavior and mood

> states.

> >

> > Pete

> >

> >

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.6 - Release Date:

> 1/17/2008 12:00 a.m.

>

>

> No virus found in this outgoing message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.6 - Release Date:

> 1/17/2008 12:00 a.m.

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.9/1237 - Release Date: 1/22/2008

11:04 AM

>

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[Guest guest]

There is quite a bit of research on false memories and how hypnosis can

create them.

For a scholarly review, see " Remembering Trauma " by Harvard's

McNally

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/MCNREM.html

kirk

Mark Baddeley wrote:

>

> Hi Tony

> While that can be true, I tend towards being wary when the previously

> unremembered is retreived under hypnosis- a lot depends on whether the

> hypnotised patient is asked leading questions which then raises a

> false memory possibility.

> Mark

>

> * Re: Depression & time to asse

>

> Good info,

>

> No she doesn't drink - I just said it because I thought you might

> think

> she was drunk after I mentioned slurred speech. The slurred speech is

> probably from excess muscle relaxers.

>

> The sleeping issue wasn't typical. Usually she feels worse with less

> sleep and better with good sleep.

>

> The client is HaTe. I I think I'll trust the master & go back to the

> TLC plan.

>

>

> >

> > SMR training wouldn't ordinarily be a training of choice for someone

> who is

> > depressed. It seems to me that her energy levels are probably pretty

> much

> > related to the depression (more depressed: lower energy; less

> depressed:

> > higher energy, right?) It also seems that her energy levels are

> fluctuating

> > in a pretty narrow band between less depressed and more depressed. My

> > belief would be that we find out how the depression is programmed

> into

> the

> > activation patterns and help start to unwind that.

> >

> > Again, it's hard to say whether what you are doing is having much of

> an

> > effect if she is stopping her meds mid-stream, so perhaps what

> you are

> doing

> > is working fine. You mentioned " she wasn't drinking either day " kind

> of in

> > passing. Does she drink or was this just an explanatory comment? If

> she's

> > drinking at all, that will make it nearly impossible to get a good

> training

> > result.

> >

> > If I understood your table properly, based on those two subjective

> readings,

> > when she sleeps well, she feels lousy; when she doesn't, she feels

> great.

> > That's kind of interesting.

> >

> > The point I was making about measuring at different times is that

> > relationships (e.g. alpha/theta, theta/beta, front/back, left/right)

> don't

> > usually change very much. I think I said that amplitudes are quite

> likely

> > to change a lot. That's why the TLC works with relationships in the

> brain:

> > they are stable and they tend to underlie stable behavior and mood

> states.

> >

> > Pete

> >

> >

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.6 - Release Date:

> 1/17/2008 12:00 a.m.

>

>

> No virus found in this outgoing message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.6 - Release Date:

> 1/17/2008 12:00 a.m.

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.9/1237 - Release Date: 1/22/2008

11:04 AM

>

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[Guest guest]

Hi folks,

I like to consider training T3-T4 when depression is present, maybe before and after train frontal, depending on the TLC assessment findings. The reason is because definitely a depression origin (Tone issue) could be hidden beneath the temporal lobes in the emotional brain or limbic system.

IIMHO, makes a lot of sense that a depressed person may feel better without a good sleeping, because the brain activity doesn't let the mind go to subconscious material that could trigger the depression. I believe that when you go to a deep sleep, the mind goes through an oniric process. Then it will compensate the emotional experience lived and if everything is ok, you wake up just fine; but if something is happening ,your thoughts doesn't stop until you take care of business.

Re: Re: Depression & time to asse

SMR training wouldn't ordinarily be a training of choice for someone who is depressed. It seems to me that her energy levels are probably pretty much related to the depression (more depressed: lower energy; less depressed: higher energy, right?) It also seems that her energy levels are fluctuating in a pretty narrow band between less depressed and more depressed. My belief would be that we find out how the depression is programmed into the activation patterns and help start to unwind that.

Again, it's hard to say whether what you are doing is having much of an effect if she is stopping her meds mid-stream, so perhaps what you are doing is working fine. You mentioned "she wasn't drinking either day" kind of in passing. Does she drink or was this just an explanatory comment? If she's drinking at all, that will make it nearly impossible to get a good training result.

If I understood your table properly, based on those two subjective readings, when she sleeps well, she feels lousy; when she doesn't, she feels great. That's kind of interesting.

The point I was making about measuring at different times is that relationships (e.g. alpha/theta, theta/beta, front/back, left/right) don't usually change very much. I think I said that amplitudes are quite likely to change a lot. That's why the TLC works with relationships in the brain: they are stable and they tend to underlie stable behavior and mood states.

Pete

On Jan 22, 2008 7:31 PM, bharney2002 <bharney2002@ yahoo.com> wrote:

Pete,The protocol I've been using is a 1C one reward (13-15hz) two inhibits (2-10hz, 19-38hz) CZ/A1/g. This protocol wasn't on her TLC plan but after running through the list of options and getting minimal results, I went with intuition and a semi-educated guess and came up with the protocol listed above. After the first session her energy and quality of mood increased enough that every day after she would ask for the same protocol. My plan was to get her energy level stabilized, then go back to the protocols on the TLC plan and target the depression, beginning with T3. The reason I asked about when to assess was because of the difference in her amplitudes and depression from yesterday to today.Here is her info comparing two very different cognitive states. All scales are 1-10, worst-best, self report. Sleep onset Sleep quality Energy Mood

4 8 2 0 (flat affect) 1/21/08 2 3 8 8.5

1/22/0812-15hz 2-10hz 19-38hz threshold settings 8u 73u 24u 1/21/08 5u 49u 23u 1/22/08 Yesterday she was so down her speech was slightly slurred.Today she is very up & happy & no slurred speech (she wasn't drinking either day)The change in the 2-10hz amplitudes was quite different and caused me to think about when to assess.

.. -- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmail (DOT) comhttp://www.brain- trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Hi folks,

I like to consider training T3-T4 when depression is present, maybe before and after train frontal, depending on the TLC assessment findings. The reason is because definitely a depression origin (Tone issue) could be hidden beneath the temporal lobes in the emotional brain or limbic system.

IIMHO, makes a lot of sense that a depressed person may feel better without a good sleeping, because the brain activity doesn't let the mind go to subconscious material that could trigger the depression. I believe that when you go to a deep sleep, the mind goes through an oniric process. Then it will compensate the emotional experience lived and if everything is ok, you wake up just fine; but if something is happening ,your thoughts doesn't stop until you take care of business.

Re: Re: Depression & time to asse

SMR training wouldn't ordinarily be a training of choice for someone who is depressed. It seems to me that her energy levels are probably pretty much related to the depression (more depressed: lower energy; less depressed: higher energy, right?) It also seems that her energy levels are fluctuating in a pretty narrow band between less depressed and more depressed. My belief would be that we find out how the depression is programmed into the activation patterns and help start to unwind that.

Again, it's hard to say whether what you are doing is having much of an effect if she is stopping her meds mid-stream, so perhaps what you are doing is working fine. You mentioned "she wasn't drinking either day" kind of in passing. Does she drink or was this just an explanatory comment? If she's drinking at all, that will make it nearly impossible to get a good training result.

If I understood your table properly, based on those two subjective readings, when she sleeps well, she feels lousy; when she doesn't, she feels great. That's kind of interesting.

The point I was making about measuring at different times is that relationships (e.g. alpha/theta, theta/beta, front/back, left/right) don't usually change very much. I think I said that amplitudes are quite likely to change a lot. That's why the TLC works with relationships in the brain: they are stable and they tend to underlie stable behavior and mood states.

Pete

On Jan 22, 2008 7:31 PM, bharney2002 <bharney2002@ yahoo.com> wrote:

Pete,The protocol I've been using is a 1C one reward (13-15hz) two inhibits (2-10hz, 19-38hz) CZ/A1/g. This protocol wasn't on her TLC plan but after running through the list of options and getting minimal results, I went with intuition and a semi-educated guess and came up with the protocol listed above. After the first session her energy and quality of mood increased enough that every day after she would ask for the same protocol. My plan was to get her energy level stabilized, then go back to the protocols on the TLC plan and target the depression, beginning with T3. The reason I asked about when to assess was because of the difference in her amplitudes and depression from yesterday to today.Here is her info comparing two very different cognitive states. All scales are 1-10, worst-best, self report. Sleep onset Sleep quality Energy Mood

4 8 2 0 (flat affect) 1/21/08 2 3 8 8.5

1/22/0812-15hz 2-10hz 19-38hz threshold settings 8u 73u 24u 1/21/08 5u 49u 23u 1/22/08 Yesterday she was so down her speech was slightly slurred.Today she is very up & happy & no slurred speech (she wasn't drinking either day)The change in the 2-10hz amplitudes was quite different and caused me to think about when to assess.

.. -- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmail (DOT) comhttp://www.brain- trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Kirk

Thanks for the reference. I'm sure the whole issue has not been decisively concluded. A cursory llok leads me to think that McNally may not have considered the process of dissociation or brain imaging but I am open to correction.

Mark

* Re: Depression & time to asse>> Good info,>> No she doesn't drink - I just said it because I thought you might> think> she was drunk after I mentioned slurred speech. The slurred speech is> probably from excess muscle relaxers.>> The sleeping issue wasn't typical. Usually she feels worse with less> sleep and better with good sleep.>> The client is HaTe. I I think I'll trust the master & go back to the> TLC plan.>> > >> > SMR training wouldn't ordinarily be a training of choice for someone> who is> > depressed. It seems to me that her energy levels are probably pretty> much> > related to the depression (more depressed: lower energy; less> depressed:> > higher energy, right?) It also seems that her energy levels are> fluctuating> > in a pretty narrow band between less depressed and more depressed. My> > belief would be that we find out how the depression is programmed> into> the> > activation patterns and help start to unwind that.> >> > Again, it's hard to say whether what you are doing is having much of> an> > effect if she is stopping her meds mid-stream, so perhaps what> you are> doing> > is working fine. You mentioned "she wasn't drinking either day" kind> of in> > passing. Does she drink or was this just an explanatory comment? If> she's> > drinking at all, that will make it nearly impossible to get a good> training> > result.> >> > If I understood your table properly, based on those two subjective> readings,> > when she sleeps well, she feels lousy; when she doesn't, she feels> great.> > That's kind of interesting.> >> > The point I was making about measuring at different times is that> > relationships (e.g. alpha/theta, theta/beta, front/back, left/right)> don't> > usually change very much. I think I said that amplitudes are quite> likely> > to change a lot. That's why the TLC works with relationships in the> brain:> > they are stable and they tend to underlie stable behavior and mood> states.> >> > Pete> >> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG Free Edition.> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.6 - Release Date:> 1/17/2008 12:00 a.m.>>> No virus found in this outgoing message.> Checked by AVG Free Edition.> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.6 - Release Date:> 1/17/2008 12:00 a.m.>> > ---------------------------------------------------------->> No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.9/1237 - Release Date: 1/22/2008 11:04 AM>

[Guest guest]

Tony,

Usually, if you look at the assessment, you'll see patterns indicative of old trauma where it is present. Training to unwind these first is generally a good idea (if the client can deal with it). Alpha Theta with someone who has this kind of hidden material can be a bad experience in some cases if done before you have dealt with the patterns blocking the memory material. I'll be interested to hear what the long term response is for this lady you worked with. I've worked with a lot of folks who've done major uncovering work (including hypnosis), and after the initial relief they often find that the pattern is still present. That's where NF can be very powerful.

Knowing that you have a reason to be hypervigilant doesn't necessarily change the hypervigilance pattern.

Pete

What I am finding here in

New Zealand unfortunately is that a lot of middle aged woman have been molested at an early age. The brain covers it up and they suffer depression because of it. I generally ask clients if they can remember any incident. The last woman that came to me had no recollection of molestation. She did an assessment with me and went to a hypnotist that took her back and uncovered the molestation in early childhood. She stopped coming to me so I assume she feels better. It allows them to deal with the situation as an adult not a child. So the alpha theta protocol may be in order as well

.. -- Van Deusen

pvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Tony,

Usually, if you look at the assessment, you'll see patterns indicative of old trauma where it is present. Training to unwind these first is generally a good idea (if the client can deal with it). Alpha Theta with someone who has this kind of hidden material can be a bad experience in some cases if done before you have dealt with the patterns blocking the memory material. I'll be interested to hear what the long term response is for this lady you worked with. I've worked with a lot of folks who've done major uncovering work (including hypnosis), and after the initial relief they often find that the pattern is still present. That's where NF can be very powerful.

Knowing that you have a reason to be hypervigilant doesn't necessarily change the hypervigilance pattern.

Pete

What I am finding here in

New Zealand unfortunately is that a lot of middle aged woman have been molested at an early age. The brain covers it up and they suffer depression because of it. I generally ask clients if they can remember any incident. The last woman that came to me had no recollection of molestation. She did an assessment with me and went to a hypnotist that took her back and uncovered the molestation in early childhood. She stopped coming to me so I assume she feels better. It allows them to deal with the situation as an adult not a child. So the alpha theta protocol may be in order as well

.. -- Van Deusen

pvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Jack,

I'm encouraged that the school thought it so important to teach you

critical thinking around this issue that they created an entire class

for it. It is something that seems to engender very strong reactions

given how much is at stake. While wearing my clinician's hat, it is of

no consequence the historical " facts " or " truth " of the story, only the

theme or schema of what survives for the individual in the moment they

are with me.

Kirk

bharney2002 wrote:

>

> Kirk,

>

> I took a class on creating false memories and recovering repressed

> memories. We read most of the books and research covering the topic.

> What I remember the most is what Mark mentioned, leading questions. We

> watched videos of specialists working with children who created very

> elaborate memories in children that were later proven false. The

> clinicians were video recording their session and didn't realize how

> little it took to create a memory that didn't exist.

>

> Loftus conducted experiments in which she created such

> strong false memories in adults that once they were told of the

> experiment they would argue, no I remember his plaid shirt and the way

> he smelled. Really interesting stuff.

>

> Jack

>

>

> > > >

> > > > SMR training wouldn't ordinarily be a training of choice for someone

> > > who is

> > > > depressed. It seems to me that her energy levels are probably pretty

> > > much

> > > > related to the depression (more depressed: lower energy; less

> > > depressed:

> > > > higher energy, right?) It also seems that her energy levels are

> > > fluctuating

> > > > in a pretty narrow band between less depressed and more

> depressed. My

> > > > belief would be that we find out how the depression is programmed

> > > into

> > > the

> > > > activation patterns and help start to unwind that.

> > > >

> > > > Again, it's hard to say whether what you are doing is having much of

> > > an

> > > > effect if she is stopping her meds mid-stream, so perhaps what

> > > you are

> > > doing

> > > gt; is working fine. You mentioned " she wasn't drinking either

> day " kind

> > > of in

> > > > passing. Does she drink or was this just an explanatory comment? If

> > > she's

> > > > drinking at all, that will make it nearly impossible to get a good

> > > training

> > > > result.

> > > >

> > > > If I understood your table properly, based on those two subjective

> > > readings,

> > > > when she sleeps well, she feels lousy; when she doesn't, she feels

> > > great.

> > > > That's kind of interesting.

> > > >

> > > > The point I was making about measuring at different times is that

> > > > relationships (e.g. alpha/theta, theta/beta, front/back, left/right)

> > > don't

> > > > usually change very much. I think I said that amplitudes are quite

> > > likely

> > > > to chang a lot. That's why the TLC works with relationships in the

> > > brain:

> > > > they are stable and they tend to underlie stable behavior and mood

> > > states.

> > > >

> > > > Pete

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > No virus found in this incoming message.

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> > >

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> 1/22/2008 11:04 AM

> > >

> >

>

>

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10:24 AM

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Attachment: vcard [not shown]

[Guest guest]

Hi all

Thanks to this discussion I have a better

understanding. Mark your response about the false memories brings to mind a

child molestation case here some years ago where the whole case was proven to

be built on false memories due to people asking leading questions and mass

hysteria followed. Pete I havn’t yet seen this

woman to ask her how she is going and I have no feedback as to wether she is off her medication etc. Yes from the TLC I

saw she had hot temporals so would have addressed the

results of the TLC before going into alpha/ theta work.

Thanks All

Tony

Re: Re:

Depression & time to asse

Jack,

I'm encouraged that the school thought it so important to teach you

critical thinking around this issue that they created an entire class

for it. It is something that seems to engender very strong reactions

given how much is at stake. While wearing my clinician's hat, it is of

no consequence the historical " facts " or " truth " of the

story, only the

theme or schema of what survives for the individual in the moment they

are with me.

Kirk

bharney2002 wrote:

>

> Kirk,

>

> I took a class on creating false memories and recovering repressed

> memories. We read most of the books and research covering the topic.

> What I remember the most is what Mark mentioned, leading questions. We

> watched videos of specialists working with children who created very

> elaborate memories in children that were later proven false. The

> clinicians were video recording their session and didn't realize how

> little it took to create a memory that didn't exist.

>

> Loftus conducted experiments in which she created such

> strong false memories in adults that once they were told of the

> experiment they would argue, no I remember his plaid shirt and the way

> he smelled. Really interesting stuff.

>

> Jack

>

>

> > > >

> > > > SMR training wouldn't ordinarily be a training of choice

for someone

> > > who is

> > > > depressed. It seems to me that her energy levels are

probably pretty

> > > much

> > > > related to the depression (more depressed: lower energy;

less

> > > depressed:

> > > > higher energy, right?) It also seems that her energy levels

are

> > > fluctuating

> > > > in a pretty narrow band between less depressed and more

> depressed. My

> > > > belief would be that we find out how the depression is

programmed

> > > into

> > > the

> > > > activation patterns and help start to unwind that.

> > > >

> > > > Again, it's hard to say whether what you are doing is

having much of

> > > an

> > > > effect if she is stopping her meds mid-stream, so perhaps

what

> > > you are

> > > doing

> > > gt; is working fine. You mentioned " she wasn't drinking

either

> day " kind

> > > of in

> > > > passing. Does she drink or was this just an explanatory

comment? If

> > > she's

> > > > drinking at all, that will make it nearly impossible to get

a good

> > > training

> > > > result.

> > > >

> > > > If I understood your table properly, based on those two

subjective

> > > readings,

> > > > when she sleeps well, she feels lousy; when she doesn't,

she feels

> > > great.

> > > > That's kind of interesting.

> > > >

> > > > The point I was making about measuring at different times

is that

> > > > relationships (e.g. alpha/theta, theta/beta, front/back,

left/right)

> > > don't

> > > > usually change very much. I think I said that amplitudes

are quite

> > > likely

> > > > to chang a lot. That's why the TLC works with relationships

in the

> > > brain:

> > > > they are stable and they tend to underlie stable behavior

and mood

> > > states.

> > > >

> > > > Pete

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.6 - Release Date:

> > > 1/17/2008 12:00 a.m.

> > >

> > >

> > > No virus found in this outgoing message.

> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.6 - Release Date:

> > > 1/17/2008 12:00 a.m.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> ----------------------------------------------------------

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> > > Checked by AVGFree Edition.

> > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.9/1237 - Release Date:

> 1/22/2008 11:04 AM

> > >

> >

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.9/1239 - Release Date: 1/23/2008

10:24 AM

>

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.6 - Release Date: 1/17/2008 12:00 a.m.

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.6 - Release Date: 1/17/2008 12:00 a.m.