Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 Wow , That's kind of a big can of worms you just opened! No, my psychiatrist does not (to my knowledge) believe that OCD is 100% neurological. I suspect she believes, as I do, that it is a problem with brain chemistry (or structure even - my daughter's OCD began when her basal ganglia were " irritated " by encephalitis, they say), but I don't think anyone understands where the line between the mind and the brain is. Psychotherapy in the form of cognitive behavioral therapy is still the gold standard for treating OCD, with medication added if CBT alone doesn't do the job. The theory is that CBT (specifically exposure / response prevention) changes the neurological pathways in the brain, and can cause permanent changes. Medication causes temporary relief, but no permanent changes. If you want to really get lost in this subject, there's a fascinating book called The Mind and The Brain : Neuroplasticity and the Power of Mental Force by Schwartz, M.D. (He is the guy who discovered that the results of ERP could be seen on brain scans of OCD patients). This book is about the power of the mind to shape the brain in areas other than OCD (like ADHD). It has me wondering whether I really CAN teach my ADHD daughter to hang up her bath towel if we repeat the procedure about 15,000 more times!! Maybe there IS hope! As far as discipline is concerned, it's true you can't punish OCD behaviors and expect them to change. That's one of the hardest parts of parenting a child with OCD. But you can set limits. You can't punish your child for washing his hands 100 times, but you can say no to providing clean towels each time, for example. The psychotherapy that works for OCD doesn't help by punishing, or lecturing, but by teaching the patient that the anxiety caused by not doing a compulsion is not fatal, and will fade with each new exposure. And finally (this is getting really long, I know) psychotherapy helps with all the surrounding issues that arise along with OCD - the anger, the family tension, the discipline issues, etc. I suppose there are CBT practitioners who don't address these issues, but ours does, and it is incredibly helpful, especially as my daughter is now a pre-teen with all the attitude and problems that go along with it! Does that help clarify things? Best wishes, in NV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 Wow , That's kind of a big can of worms you just opened! No, my psychiatrist does not (to my knowledge) believe that OCD is 100% neurological. I suspect she believes, as I do, that it is a problem with brain chemistry (or structure even - my daughter's OCD began when her basal ganglia were " irritated " by encephalitis, they say), but I don't think anyone understands where the line between the mind and the brain is. Psychotherapy in the form of cognitive behavioral therapy is still the gold standard for treating OCD, with medication added if CBT alone doesn't do the job. The theory is that CBT (specifically exposure / response prevention) changes the neurological pathways in the brain, and can cause permanent changes. Medication causes temporary relief, but no permanent changes. If you want to really get lost in this subject, there's a fascinating book called The Mind and The Brain : Neuroplasticity and the Power of Mental Force by Schwartz, M.D. (He is the guy who discovered that the results of ERP could be seen on brain scans of OCD patients). This book is about the power of the mind to shape the brain in areas other than OCD (like ADHD). It has me wondering whether I really CAN teach my ADHD daughter to hang up her bath towel if we repeat the procedure about 15,000 more times!! Maybe there IS hope! As far as discipline is concerned, it's true you can't punish OCD behaviors and expect them to change. That's one of the hardest parts of parenting a child with OCD. But you can set limits. You can't punish your child for washing his hands 100 times, but you can say no to providing clean towels each time, for example. The psychotherapy that works for OCD doesn't help by punishing, or lecturing, but by teaching the patient that the anxiety caused by not doing a compulsion is not fatal, and will fade with each new exposure. And finally (this is getting really long, I know) psychotherapy helps with all the surrounding issues that arise along with OCD - the anger, the family tension, the discipline issues, etc. I suppose there are CBT practitioners who don't address these issues, but ours does, and it is incredibly helpful, especially as my daughter is now a pre-teen with all the attitude and problems that go along with it! Does that help clarify things? Best wishes, in NV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 , Yes, that clarifies it well. I guess when I say " neurological " , I am thinking of brain chemistry, basal ganglia, etc. I think that's what my doc thinks, too. Anyway, I understand the need for multidirectional approach to the problem. I just wondered how much the psychotherapy really does in helping the root of the problem or does it just help one deal with the current fear or obsession/compulsion only to be replaced with a new one. That's how my son had described it to me-that each time we did the therapy, it would help with the one " thought " , but he would move onto another........ in So IL Re: - new/is this ocd Wow , That's kind of a big can of worms you just opened! No, my psychiatrist does not (to my knowledge) believe that OCD is 100% neurological. I suspect she believes, as I do, that it is a problem with brain chemistry (or structure even - my daughter's OCD began when her basal ganglia were " irritated " by encephalitis, they say), but I don't think anyone understands where the line between the mind and the brain is. Psychotherapy in the form of cognitive behavioral therapy is still the gold standard for treating OCD, with medication added if CBT alone doesn't do the job. The theory is that CBT (specifically exposure / response prevention) changes the neurological pathways in the brain, and can cause permanent changes. Medication causes temporary relief, but no permanent changes. If you want to really get lost in this subject, there's a fascinating book called The Mind and The Brain : Neuroplasticity and the Power of Mental Force by Schwartz, M.D. (He is the guy who discovered that the results of ERP could be seen on brain scans of OCD patients). This book is about the power of the mind to shape the brain in areas other than OCD (like ADHD). It has me wondering whether I really CAN teach my ADHD daughter to hang up her bath towel if we repeat the procedure about 15,000 more times!! Maybe there IS hope! As far as discipline is concerned, it's true you can't punish OCD behaviors and expect them to change. That's one of the hardest parts of parenting a child with OCD. But you can set limits. You can't punish your child for washing his hands 100 times, but you can say no to providing clean towels each time, for example. The psychotherapy that works for OCD doesn't help by punishing, or lecturing, but by teaching the patient that the anxiety caused by not doing a compulsion is not fatal, and will fade with each new exposure. And finally (this is getting really long, I know) psychotherapy helps with all the surrounding issues that arise along with OCD - the anger, the family tension, the discipline issues, etc. I suppose there are CBT practitioners who don't address these issues, but ours does, and it is incredibly helpful, especially as my daughter is now a pre-teen with all the attitude and problems that go along with it! Does that help clarify things? Best wishes, in NV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 , Yes, that clarifies it well. I guess when I say " neurological " , I am thinking of brain chemistry, basal ganglia, etc. I think that's what my doc thinks, too. Anyway, I understand the need for multidirectional approach to the problem. I just wondered how much the psychotherapy really does in helping the root of the problem or does it just help one deal with the current fear or obsession/compulsion only to be replaced with a new one. That's how my son had described it to me-that each time we did the therapy, it would help with the one " thought " , but he would move onto another........ in So IL Re: - new/is this ocd Wow , That's kind of a big can of worms you just opened! No, my psychiatrist does not (to my knowledge) believe that OCD is 100% neurological. I suspect she believes, as I do, that it is a problem with brain chemistry (or structure even - my daughter's OCD began when her basal ganglia were " irritated " by encephalitis, they say), but I don't think anyone understands where the line between the mind and the brain is. Psychotherapy in the form of cognitive behavioral therapy is still the gold standard for treating OCD, with medication added if CBT alone doesn't do the job. The theory is that CBT (specifically exposure / response prevention) changes the neurological pathways in the brain, and can cause permanent changes. Medication causes temporary relief, but no permanent changes. If you want to really get lost in this subject, there's a fascinating book called The Mind and The Brain : Neuroplasticity and the Power of Mental Force by Schwartz, M.D. (He is the guy who discovered that the results of ERP could be seen on brain scans of OCD patients). This book is about the power of the mind to shape the brain in areas other than OCD (like ADHD). It has me wondering whether I really CAN teach my ADHD daughter to hang up her bath towel if we repeat the procedure about 15,000 more times!! Maybe there IS hope! As far as discipline is concerned, it's true you can't punish OCD behaviors and expect them to change. That's one of the hardest parts of parenting a child with OCD. But you can set limits. You can't punish your child for washing his hands 100 times, but you can say no to providing clean towels each time, for example. The psychotherapy that works for OCD doesn't help by punishing, or lecturing, but by teaching the patient that the anxiety caused by not doing a compulsion is not fatal, and will fade with each new exposure. And finally (this is getting really long, I know) psychotherapy helps with all the surrounding issues that arise along with OCD - the anger, the family tension, the discipline issues, etc. I suppose there are CBT practitioners who don't address these issues, but ours does, and it is incredibly helpful, especially as my daughter is now a pre-teen with all the attitude and problems that go along with it! Does that help clarify things? Best wishes, in NV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 , Yes, that clarifies it well. I guess when I say " neurological " , I am thinking of brain chemistry, basal ganglia, etc. I think that's what my doc thinks, too. Anyway, I understand the need for multidirectional approach to the problem. I just wondered how much the psychotherapy really does in helping the root of the problem or does it just help one deal with the current fear or obsession/compulsion only to be replaced with a new one. That's how my son had described it to me-that each time we did the therapy, it would help with the one " thought " , but he would move onto another........ in So IL Re: - new/is this ocd Wow , That's kind of a big can of worms you just opened! No, my psychiatrist does not (to my knowledge) believe that OCD is 100% neurological. I suspect she believes, as I do, that it is a problem with brain chemistry (or structure even - my daughter's OCD began when her basal ganglia were " irritated " by encephalitis, they say), but I don't think anyone understands where the line between the mind and the brain is. Psychotherapy in the form of cognitive behavioral therapy is still the gold standard for treating OCD, with medication added if CBT alone doesn't do the job. The theory is that CBT (specifically exposure / response prevention) changes the neurological pathways in the brain, and can cause permanent changes. Medication causes temporary relief, but no permanent changes. If you want to really get lost in this subject, there's a fascinating book called The Mind and The Brain : Neuroplasticity and the Power of Mental Force by Schwartz, M.D. (He is the guy who discovered that the results of ERP could be seen on brain scans of OCD patients). This book is about the power of the mind to shape the brain in areas other than OCD (like ADHD). It has me wondering whether I really CAN teach my ADHD daughter to hang up her bath towel if we repeat the procedure about 15,000 more times!! Maybe there IS hope! As far as discipline is concerned, it's true you can't punish OCD behaviors and expect them to change. That's one of the hardest parts of parenting a child with OCD. But you can set limits. You can't punish your child for washing his hands 100 times, but you can say no to providing clean towels each time, for example. The psychotherapy that works for OCD doesn't help by punishing, or lecturing, but by teaching the patient that the anxiety caused by not doing a compulsion is not fatal, and will fade with each new exposure. And finally (this is getting really long, I know) psychotherapy helps with all the surrounding issues that arise along with OCD - the anger, the family tension, the discipline issues, etc. I suppose there are CBT practitioners who don't address these issues, but ours does, and it is incredibly helpful, especially as my daughter is now a pre-teen with all the attitude and problems that go along with it! Does that help clarify things? Best wishes, in NV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 In a message dated 9/13/2004 9:00:53 AM Pacific Standard Time, laloba661@... writes: That's how my son had described it to me-that each time we did the therapy, it would help with the one " thought " , but he would move onto another........ Hi , Well, it's true that one obsession is quickly replaced by another! But in our experience the new ones are quickly disposed of, probably because they have had less time to become entrenched. It is the earliest, original obsessions that we are still fighting! And learning to squelch one obsession means you know how to squelch them all. My daughter often says things like " I had an OCD thing about that for a while, but it's gone " or " this is becoming an OCD thing " but then I never hear about it again - she deals with it. Mention someone vomiting though, and she is pale and shaky in half a second! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 In a message dated 9/13/2004 9:00:53 AM Pacific Standard Time, laloba661@... writes: That's how my son had described it to me-that each time we did the therapy, it would help with the one " thought " , but he would move onto another........ Hi , Well, it's true that one obsession is quickly replaced by another! But in our experience the new ones are quickly disposed of, probably because they have had less time to become entrenched. It is the earliest, original obsessions that we are still fighting! And learning to squelch one obsession means you know how to squelch them all. My daughter often says things like " I had an OCD thing about that for a while, but it's gone " or " this is becoming an OCD thing " but then I never hear about it again - she deals with it. Mention someone vomiting though, and she is pale and shaky in half a second! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Hi , jumping in here...CBT/ERP does both reduce/eliminate specific obsessions/compulsions, but also generalizes to others that have not been specifically worked on. Your son is right, we used to joke on this list about our kids playing " Whack a Mole " with specific compulsions, the kids beat one down in therapy, just to have a couple of new ones pop up. But eventually the " moles " stop popping up, or slow down and lose steam, plus all that bossing back practice helps kids recognize a new symptom getting started and apply ERP right away before it gets out of hand. Around our house ERP is practically a way of life, for all of us not just the OCDer. I'm not sure where he got it, but our therapist spoke of paths in the woods, and how if they are not used much they get grown up and weedy and hard to walk on. In therapy the idea is to stop using OCD " paths " in the brain, let them get grown over and weedy, while laying down new, functional non-OCD paths that are clear and easy to navigate. Our brains change functionally and chemically with every new experience or bit of information, throughout out lives it's now known. CBT/ERP changes the brain to function in a more " normal " and less OCD fashion. It's this functional change following CBT/ERP that can be seen in " before " and " after " therapy brain scans and correlates with lowered symptoms. Kathy R. in Indiana ----- Original Message ----- > , > Yes, that clarifies it well. I guess when I say " neurological " , I am thinking of brain chemistry, basal ganglia, etc. I think that's what my doc thinks, too. Anyway, I understand the need for multidirectional approach to the problem. I just wondered how much the psychotherapy really does in helping the root of the problem or does it just help one deal with the current fear or obsession/compulsion only to be replaced with a new one. That's how my son had described it to me-that each time we did the therapy, it would help with the one " thought " , but he would move onto another........ > > in So IL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.