Re: Difficulty with everything ..it seems...

[Guest guest]

I found your post quite interesting and amusing. I have a nervous

smile and also when asked opinions in the past I have asked the

person if they wanted the truth and did they want it 'sugar coated'

and how much? :-)

>

> Compounding things for me is that I have a tendency to grin or

laugh

> whilst being honest. Most of the time it's because I know there is

> no real way to tell the other person the truth and I know I'mgoing

to

> get lammed for whatever it is I'm about to say.

>

> I smile out of nervousness, in other words.

>

> Here are some of the varoius responses I've given (and thoughts

I've

> kept to myself) to the question " What do you think? " :

>

> Response Number One:

>

> What I say: Are you looking for a compliment or for you want me to

be

> honest?

>

> What I'm thinking of saying: I think it's the worst idea I've ever

> heard of in my entirelife.

>

> (Or)

>

> It makes you look fat.

>

> Extremely fat.

>

> Like the Hindenburg before it crashed and burned, only fatter.

>

> Response Number Two:

>

> 2) What I say: Do you really want a response or are you just

fishing

> for compliments?

>

> 2) What I'm thinking: Because if you're fishing for compliments,

> you're not going to get them from me.

>

> Response Number Three:

>

> 3) What I say: Do you really want my opinion or are you just

looking

> for someone to confirm what you're already thinking?

>

> 3) What I'm thinking: Because if the answer to the second half of

the

> question is yes, just record your thoughts on a casette tape and

play

> it back as many times as necessary until you're satisfied. And stop

> wastingmy time.

>

> Response Number Four:

>

> 4) What I say: Do you really want my opinion, or do you just want a

> mirror?

>

> 4) What I'm thinking: Why ask my opinion if you're not really

> interested in hearing it, anyway?

>

> I find it very interesting that I can pick up on these little

nuances

> of conversation even though I'm an Aspie and Aspies are supposed to

> lack empathy.

>

> At any rate...now you can all guess why I only have one friend

> besides Inger.

>

>

>

> Tom

>

[Guest guest]

I found your post quite interesting and amusing. I have a nervous

smile and also when asked opinions in the past I have asked the

person if they wanted the truth and did they want it 'sugar coated'

and how much? :-)

>

> Compounding things for me is that I have a tendency to grin or

laugh

> whilst being honest. Most of the time it's because I know there is

> no real way to tell the other person the truth and I know I'mgoing

to

> get lammed for whatever it is I'm about to say.

>

> I smile out of nervousness, in other words.

>

> Here are some of the varoius responses I've given (and thoughts

I've

> kept to myself) to the question " What do you think? " :

>

> Response Number One:

>

> What I say: Are you looking for a compliment or for you want me to

be

> honest?

>

> What I'm thinking of saying: I think it's the worst idea I've ever

> heard of in my entirelife.

>

> (Or)

>

> It makes you look fat.

>

> Extremely fat.

>

> Like the Hindenburg before it crashed and burned, only fatter.

>

> Response Number Two:

>

> 2) What I say: Do you really want a response or are you just

fishing

> for compliments?

>

> 2) What I'm thinking: Because if you're fishing for compliments,

> you're not going to get them from me.

>

> Response Number Three:

>

> 3) What I say: Do you really want my opinion or are you just

looking

> for someone to confirm what you're already thinking?

>

> 3) What I'm thinking: Because if the answer to the second half of

the

> question is yes, just record your thoughts on a casette tape and

play

> it back as many times as necessary until you're satisfied. And stop

> wastingmy time.

>

> Response Number Four:

>

> 4) What I say: Do you really want my opinion, or do you just want a

> mirror?

>

> 4) What I'm thinking: Why ask my opinion if you're not really

> interested in hearing it, anyway?

>

> I find it very interesting that I can pick up on these little

nuances

> of conversation even though I'm an Aspie and Aspies are supposed to

> lack empathy.

>

> At any rate...now you can all guess why I only have one friend

> besides Inger.

>

>

>

> Tom

>

[Guest guest]

,

I have a theory that the reason old people's faces are so wrinkled up

is because they've been overusing their facial muscles whilst forcing

themselves to smile all their lives. 90 years of forced smiles can do

that to you.

If I want to smile, I smile. If I don't want to smile, I don't. And

that's why I look younger than my age.

The fact that I too have a nervous smile ought not to need any

explanation. It's just the way I'm built, and the same goes for you.

I think if everyone could function according to how they are built -

and respected for how they function- the world would be a much better

place.

Tom

Date: Sat Apr 2, 2005 3:11 pm

Subject: Re: Difficulty with everything ..it seems...

" I found your post quite interesting and amusing. I have a nervous

smile and also when asked opinions in the past I have asked the

person if they wanted the truth and did they want it 'sugar coated'

and how much? :-) "

From: environmental1st2003

Date: Sat Apr 2, 2005 2:27 pm

Subject: Re: Difficulty with everything ..it seems...

environmental1s...

Compounding things for me is that I have a tendency to grin or laugh

whilst being honest. Most of the time it's because I know there is

no real way to tell the other person the truth and I know I'mgoing to

get lammed for whatever it is I'm about to say.

I smile out of nervousness, in other words.

Here are some of the varoius responses I've given (and thoughts I've

kept to myself) to the question " What do you think? " :

Response Number One:

What I say: Are you looking for a compliment or for you want me to be

honest?

What I'm thinking of saying: I think it's the worst idea I've ever

heard of in my entirelife.

(Or)

It makes you look fat.

Extremely fat.

Like the Hindenburg before it crashed and burned, only fatter.

Response Number Two:

2) What I say: Do you really want a response or are you just fishing

for compliments?

2) What I'm thinking: Because if you're fishing for compliments,

you're not going to get them from me.

Response Number Three:

3) What I say: Do you really want my opinion or are you just looking

for someone to confirm what you're already thinking?

3) What I'm thinking: Because if the answer to the second half of the

question is yes, just record your thoughts on a casette tape and play

it back as many times as necessary until you're satisfied. And stop

wastingmy time.

Response Number Four:

4) What I say: Do you really want my opinion, or do you just want a

mirror?

4) What I'm thinking: Why ask my opinion if you're not really

interested in hearing it, anyway?

I find it very interesting that I can pick up on these little nuances

of conversation even though I'm an Aspie and Aspies are supposed to

lack empathy.

At any rate...now you can all guess why I only have one friend

besides Inger.

Tom

>

I find tact quite difficult too. I dread hearing the words 'what do

you think?' especially if in regards to how something looks.

If it is someone I know well I can be my honest self without any

problems, but an outsider may consider my truthfull honesty blunt and

rude. If I do not know the person as well, I try to be tactfull, but

still cannot lie; I try lines like 'it's not my style, but if you

like it then that's fine'. I suppose it sounds lame, but it's the

nearest I can manage to social politeness. Or if I think it's

absolutely dreadfull I will say 'I'm not sure, I'm not keen on it,

but if you like it then that's fine'. Still I sometimes do not get it

right and just blurt out exactly what I think without any fore

thought.

I really do not want to hurt peoples feelings and I always think if

they like it then that's all that matters really; but it is hard and

if it comes to issues - if I disagree I will say so and why.

[Guest guest]

,

I have a theory that the reason old people's faces are so wrinkled up

is because they've been overusing their facial muscles whilst forcing

themselves to smile all their lives. 90 years of forced smiles can do

that to you.

If I want to smile, I smile. If I don't want to smile, I don't. And

that's why I look younger than my age.

The fact that I too have a nervous smile ought not to need any

explanation. It's just the way I'm built, and the same goes for you.

I think if everyone could function according to how they are built -

and respected for how they function- the world would be a much better

place.

Tom

Date: Sat Apr 2, 2005 3:11 pm

Subject: Re: Difficulty with everything ..it seems...

" I found your post quite interesting and amusing. I have a nervous

smile and also when asked opinions in the past I have asked the

person if they wanted the truth and did they want it 'sugar coated'

and how much? :-) "

From: environmental1st2003

Date: Sat Apr 2, 2005 2:27 pm

Subject: Re: Difficulty with everything ..it seems...

environmental1s...

Compounding things for me is that I have a tendency to grin or laugh

whilst being honest. Most of the time it's because I know there is

no real way to tell the other person the truth and I know I'mgoing to

get lammed for whatever it is I'm about to say.

I smile out of nervousness, in other words.

Here are some of the varoius responses I've given (and thoughts I've

kept to myself) to the question " What do you think? " :

Response Number One:

What I say: Are you looking for a compliment or for you want me to be

honest?

What I'm thinking of saying: I think it's the worst idea I've ever

heard of in my entirelife.

(Or)

It makes you look fat.

Extremely fat.

Like the Hindenburg before it crashed and burned, only fatter.

Response Number Two:

2) What I say: Do you really want a response or are you just fishing

for compliments?

2) What I'm thinking: Because if you're fishing for compliments,

you're not going to get them from me.

Response Number Three:

3) What I say: Do you really want my opinion or are you just looking

for someone to confirm what you're already thinking?

3) What I'm thinking: Because if the answer to the second half of the

question is yes, just record your thoughts on a casette tape and play

it back as many times as necessary until you're satisfied. And stop

wastingmy time.

Response Number Four:

4) What I say: Do you really want my opinion, or do you just want a

mirror?

4) What I'm thinking: Why ask my opinion if you're not really

interested in hearing it, anyway?

I find it very interesting that I can pick up on these little nuances

of conversation even though I'm an Aspie and Aspies are supposed to

lack empathy.

At any rate...now you can all guess why I only have one friend

besides Inger.

Tom

>

I find tact quite difficult too. I dread hearing the words 'what do

you think?' especially if in regards to how something looks.

If it is someone I know well I can be my honest self without any

problems, but an outsider may consider my truthfull honesty blunt and

rude. If I do not know the person as well, I try to be tactfull, but

still cannot lie; I try lines like 'it's not my style, but if you

like it then that's fine'. I suppose it sounds lame, but it's the

nearest I can manage to social politeness. Or if I think it's

absolutely dreadfull I will say 'I'm not sure, I'm not keen on it,

but if you like it then that's fine'. Still I sometimes do not get it

right and just blurt out exactly what I think without any fore

thought.

I really do not want to hurt peoples feelings and I always think if

they like it then that's all that matters really; but it is hard and

if it comes to issues - if I disagree I will say so and why.

[Guest guest]

I have to say that I can relate to all of this. I also have the added problem that people tell me I am "transparent" or "easy to read" meaning that if I really do not like something I guess it shows in my face even before the words can come out. So now what do I do? It is like I am speaking and do not even know it.

Ruthgreebohere wrote:

I find tact quite difficult too. I dread hearing the words 'what do you think?' especially if in regards to how something looks.If it is someone I know well I can be my honest self without any problems, but an outsider may consider my truthfull honesty blunt and rude. If I do not know the person as well, I try to be tactfull, but still cannot lie; I try lines like 'it's not my style, but if you like it then that's fine'. I suppose it sounds lame, but it's the nearest I can manage to social politeness. Or if I think it's absolutely dreadfull I will say 'I'm not sure, I'm not keen on it, but if you like it then that's fine'. Still I sometimes do not get it right and just blurt out exactly what I think without any fore thought.I really do not want to hurt peoples feelings and I always think if they like it then that's

all that matters really; but it is hard and if it comes to issues - if I disagree I will say so and why.> > > You've got me thinking too :-)> > I have been accused of black and white thinking and > intellectualizing> (sp?, sorry it's lateish here) things and yet theoretically I can > also see many shades of grey.> > Yes I think there may be differences amongst those on the spectrum > and also some common ground too. I think this is just down to the > people. Some people are nice, some people are not - that is just > the way it is AS or not. Maybe I am over simplifying things a bit - > I do not

know?> > ***I think that sums it up nicely. APTs are more likely than NTs to > hurt a person's feelings or be rude by accident. However I have > seen both NTs and APTs that are deliberately rude or insulting.*** > > Also as for being honest and blunt, I think people without AS can > be like this, maybe because of their beliefs in being honest, or > maybe some intentionally are blunt, or for other reasons?> > I think with AS it is almost unavoidable - it is like almost > uncontrollable thing. I say 'almost' because I know of people with > AS that have learnt to lie, but that their lie would not hold up > under questioning and I have heard/know of those on the spectrum > that can learn tact - to a degree; but however the 1st and natural > response is to be honest and blunt.> > ***My mom is APT, but has trained herself to

lie (and act as NT as > possible). Whenever anyone asks her opinion on something it is > always "good" or "very nice." She is in my opinion, not a very > convincing liar. I think that APTs are not as good at telling lies > as NTs, probably because controlling tone or voice and facial > expressions is more difficult. An APT could be percieved as not > being sincer, because they did not "say it like they ment it." This > is especially true if the lie is something that would have an > emotional componet to it, for example "I am so happy you gave me > this beautiful gift" or "I'm really sorry." I personally, am very > bad at faking emotion in a convicing way. I have enough difficulty > with showing my actual emotions, instead of a neutral face/tone. If > an APT has a very limited range of expressions/tones or voice, it is > sometimes

impossible to tell if they are being truthful. My mom is > like this. The problem is that most of the time she smiles, but it > is a very fake looking smile. I think probably her natural > expression would be to always look very serious (like many APTs do), > but she has trained herself to smile. She was telling me to smile, > so I guess she was trying to train me to be like her.> > A funny little story about my mom. A few years ago, I made my first > quilt. I was not able to get all the edges to line up perfectly. > My mom was visiting and I was taking about the quilt. My husband > said, "It wasn't really bad for a first quilt." Then my mom > said, "Oh, yes, it is really very nice for a first quilt." Then I > said, "Mom, you haven't even see the quilt yet." So it is a > little difficult to take my mom's

comments as being truthful.> > It is very difficult to be both tactful and honest, but it can be > done (at least sometimes). Given a choice between being tactful and > honest, I think most NTs will choose a polite lie and most APTs will > choose to be bluntly honest. This is something that is difficult > for me. I sometimes feel like being tactful waters down what I was > trying to say, especially if I feel strongly about something. If I > twist my words to be tactful, it sometimes will sound like I have a > minor disagreement with something when I really have a major issue > with it.> > Ilah***> > Does any of this make any sense? I hope - lack of sleep and schoold > hol's is my excuse/reason if not :-)> > FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect,

friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked "Other FAM Sites." __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I have to say that I can relate to all of this. I also have the added problem that people tell me I am "transparent" or "easy to read" meaning that if I really do not like something I guess it shows in my face even before the words can come out. So now what do I do? It is like I am speaking and do not even know it.

Ruthgreebohere wrote:

I find tact quite difficult too. I dread hearing the words 'what do you think?' especially if in regards to how something looks.If it is someone I know well I can be my honest self without any problems, but an outsider may consider my truthfull honesty blunt and rude. If I do not know the person as well, I try to be tactfull, but still cannot lie; I try lines like 'it's not my style, but if you like it then that's fine'. I suppose it sounds lame, but it's the nearest I can manage to social politeness. Or if I think it's absolutely dreadfull I will say 'I'm not sure, I'm not keen on it, but if you like it then that's fine'. Still I sometimes do not get it right and just blurt out exactly what I think without any fore thought.I really do not want to hurt peoples feelings and I always think if they like it then that's

all that matters really; but it is hard and if it comes to issues - if I disagree I will say so and why.> > > You've got me thinking too :-)> > I have been accused of black and white thinking and > intellectualizing> (sp?, sorry it's lateish here) things and yet theoretically I can > also see many shades of grey.> > Yes I think there may be differences amongst those on the spectrum > and also some common ground too. I think this is just down to the > people. Some people are nice, some people are not - that is just > the way it is AS or not. Maybe I am over simplifying things a bit - > I do not

know?> > ***I think that sums it up nicely. APTs are more likely than NTs to > hurt a person's feelings or be rude by accident. However I have > seen both NTs and APTs that are deliberately rude or insulting.*** > > Also as for being honest and blunt, I think people without AS can > be like this, maybe because of their beliefs in being honest, or > maybe some intentionally are blunt, or for other reasons?> > I think with AS it is almost unavoidable - it is like almost > uncontrollable thing. I say 'almost' because I know of people with > AS that have learnt to lie, but that their lie would not hold up > under questioning and I have heard/know of those on the spectrum > that can learn tact - to a degree; but however the 1st and natural > response is to be honest and blunt.> > ***My mom is APT, but has trained herself to

lie (and act as NT as > possible). Whenever anyone asks her opinion on something it is > always "good" or "very nice." She is in my opinion, not a very > convincing liar. I think that APTs are not as good at telling lies > as NTs, probably because controlling tone or voice and facial > expressions is more difficult. An APT could be percieved as not > being sincer, because they did not "say it like they ment it." This > is especially true if the lie is something that would have an > emotional componet to it, for example "I am so happy you gave me > this beautiful gift" or "I'm really sorry." I personally, am very > bad at faking emotion in a convicing way. I have enough difficulty > with showing my actual emotions, instead of a neutral face/tone. If > an APT has a very limited range of expressions/tones or voice, it is > sometimes

impossible to tell if they are being truthful. My mom is > like this. The problem is that most of the time she smiles, but it > is a very fake looking smile. I think probably her natural > expression would be to always look very serious (like many APTs do), > but she has trained herself to smile. She was telling me to smile, > so I guess she was trying to train me to be like her.> > A funny little story about my mom. A few years ago, I made my first > quilt. I was not able to get all the edges to line up perfectly. > My mom was visiting and I was taking about the quilt. My husband > said, "It wasn't really bad for a first quilt." Then my mom > said, "Oh, yes, it is really very nice for a first quilt." Then I > said, "Mom, you haven't even see the quilt yet." So it is a > little difficult to take my mom's

comments as being truthful.> > It is very difficult to be both tactful and honest, but it can be > done (at least sometimes). Given a choice between being tactful and > honest, I think most NTs will choose a polite lie and most APTs will > choose to be bluntly honest. This is something that is difficult > for me. I sometimes feel like being tactful waters down what I was > trying to say, especially if I feel strongly about something. If I > twist my words to be tactful, it sometimes will sound like I have a > minor disagreement with something when I really have a major issue > with it.> > Ilah***> > Does any of this make any sense? I hope - lack of sleep and schoold > hol's is my excuse/reason if not :-)> > FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect,

friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked "Other FAM Sites." __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I have to say that I can relate to all of this. I also have the added problem that people tell me I am "transparent" or "easy to read" meaning that if I really do not like something I guess it shows in my face even before the words can come out. So now what do I do? It is like I am speaking and do not even know it.

Ruthgreebohere wrote:

I find tact quite difficult too. I dread hearing the words 'what do you think?' especially if in regards to how something looks.If it is someone I know well I can be my honest self without any problems, but an outsider may consider my truthfull honesty blunt and rude. If I do not know the person as well, I try to be tactfull, but still cannot lie; I try lines like 'it's not my style, but if you like it then that's fine'. I suppose it sounds lame, but it's the nearest I can manage to social politeness. Or if I think it's absolutely dreadfull I will say 'I'm not sure, I'm not keen on it, but if you like it then that's fine'. Still I sometimes do not get it right and just blurt out exactly what I think without any fore thought.I really do not want to hurt peoples feelings and I always think if they like it then that's

all that matters really; but it is hard and if it comes to issues - if I disagree I will say so and why.> > > You've got me thinking too :-)> > I have been accused of black and white thinking and > intellectualizing> (sp?, sorry it's lateish here) things and yet theoretically I can > also see many shades of grey.> > Yes I think there may be differences amongst those on the spectrum > and also some common ground too. I think this is just down to the > people. Some people are nice, some people are not - that is just > the way it is AS or not. Maybe I am over simplifying things a bit - > I do not

know?> > ***I think that sums it up nicely. APTs are more likely than NTs to > hurt a person's feelings or be rude by accident. However I have > seen both NTs and APTs that are deliberately rude or insulting.*** > > Also as for being honest and blunt, I think people without AS can > be like this, maybe because of their beliefs in being honest, or > maybe some intentionally are blunt, or for other reasons?> > I think with AS it is almost unavoidable - it is like almost > uncontrollable thing. I say 'almost' because I know of people with > AS that have learnt to lie, but that their lie would not hold up > under questioning and I have heard/know of those on the spectrum > that can learn tact - to a degree; but however the 1st and natural > response is to be honest and blunt.> > ***My mom is APT, but has trained herself to

lie (and act as NT as > possible). Whenever anyone asks her opinion on something it is > always "good" or "very nice." She is in my opinion, not a very > convincing liar. I think that APTs are not as good at telling lies > as NTs, probably because controlling tone or voice and facial > expressions is more difficult. An APT could be percieved as not > being sincer, because they did not "say it like they ment it." This > is especially true if the lie is something that would have an > emotional componet to it, for example "I am so happy you gave me > this beautiful gift" or "I'm really sorry." I personally, am very > bad at faking emotion in a convicing way. I have enough difficulty > with showing my actual emotions, instead of a neutral face/tone. If > an APT has a very limited range of expressions/tones or voice, it is > sometimes

impossible to tell if they are being truthful. My mom is > like this. The problem is that most of the time she smiles, but it > is a very fake looking smile. I think probably her natural > expression would be to always look very serious (like many APTs do), > but she has trained herself to smile. She was telling me to smile, > so I guess she was trying to train me to be like her.> > A funny little story about my mom. A few years ago, I made my first > quilt. I was not able to get all the edges to line up perfectly. > My mom was visiting and I was taking about the quilt. My husband > said, "It wasn't really bad for a first quilt." Then my mom > said, "Oh, yes, it is really very nice for a first quilt." Then I > said, "Mom, you haven't even see the quilt yet." So it is a > little difficult to take my mom's

comments as being truthful.> > It is very difficult to be both tactful and honest, but it can be > done (at least sometimes). Given a choice between being tactful and > honest, I think most NTs will choose a polite lie and most APTs will > choose to be bluntly honest. This is something that is difficult > for me. I sometimes feel like being tactful waters down what I was > trying to say, especially if I feel strongly about something. If I > twist my words to be tactful, it sometimes will sound like I have a > minor disagreement with something when I really have a major issue > with it.> > Ilah***> > Does any of this make any sense? I hope - lack of sleep and schoold > hol's is my excuse/reason if not :-)> > FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect,

friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked "Other FAM Sites." __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

, Ilah, Tom and everyone else on this thread, thanks for great and entertaining descriptions of Aspie honesty. I may quote a few of them; hope that's ok?

I'm more and more sure that my friend is at least part Aspie, despite having above average social skills. Whenever I ask her opinion of something, it's impossible for her to be anything less than 100% sincere. Many times she has taken even me by surprise by her directness. If I ask her what she thinks of my hair, clothes or make-up, or anything else in my life, she will always tell me her real opinion and often point out something that I hadn't noticed myself. But even though it can be a bit disconcerting at times, I still prefer a friend like that to one who will just say what you want to hear. I'd rather have the truth, even if it's uncomfortable.

Inger

[Guest guest]

That's fine. Can't remember exactly what I said - hope it wasn't too

damning :-)

> , Ilah, Tom and everyone else on this thread, thanks for great

and entertaining descriptions of Aspie honesty. I may quote a few of

them; hope that's ok?

>

> I'm more and more sure that my friend is at least part Aspie,

despite

having above average social skills. Whenever I ask her opinion of

something, it's impossible for her to be anything less than 100%

sincere. Many times she has taken even me by surprise by her

directness. If I ask her what she thinks of my hair, clothes or make-

up, or anything else in my life, she will always tell me her real

opinion and often point out something that I hadn't noticed myself.

But

even though it can be a bit disconcerting at times, I still prefer a

friend like that to one who will just say what you want to hear. I'd

rather have the truth, even if it's uncomfortable.

>

> Inger

[Guest guest]

That's fine. Can't remember exactly what I said - hope it wasn't too

damning :-)

> , Ilah, Tom and everyone else on this thread, thanks for great

and entertaining descriptions of Aspie honesty. I may quote a few of

them; hope that's ok?

>

> I'm more and more sure that my friend is at least part Aspie,

despite

having above average social skills. Whenever I ask her opinion of

something, it's impossible for her to be anything less than 100%

sincere. Many times she has taken even me by surprise by her

directness. If I ask her what she thinks of my hair, clothes or make-

up, or anything else in my life, she will always tell me her real

opinion and often point out something that I hadn't noticed myself.

But

even though it can be a bit disconcerting at times, I still prefer a

friend like that to one who will just say what you want to hear. I'd

rather have the truth, even if it's uncomfortable.

>

> Inger