Re: Difficulty with everything ..it seems...

[Guest guest]

Today I work part-time teaching. That's abt what I can handle

since teaching doesn't pay very well....I certainly need more

help today than I can afford and it's a dilemma. I might have to

go back to recruiting again (because of the salary) but that would

mean that I won't be

able to help students with AS anymore....

I don't know what will

happen??? I'm in a difficult situation at the moment also struggling

with healtissues (bad spinalproblems and minor heartproblems due to

stress ). I also have severe problems with friendships. I can't

socialize the way I'd like and I dont know how to keep friends

either....and on top of it I dont understand people, beeing AS or not.

I'm probably not the person that should be giving advice at this

moment.

Lotta

> Lotta,

> Thank you so much for sharing all of this information about you and

work etc. When I saw this last part written I had to save it and

reply to this specifically. In a way you have given me a little

reassurance that I am not alone. I seem to be able to manage one job

and that is it. I did best at my work or career when I had a nanny

full time. But when she could not help the kids in the way that only

I could I was not able to manage my career/job any more. I have come

to the conclusion that the only way I could " work " now is if I had

someone else do all the things you mentioned here. I have not yet

figured out a job that pays enough in the short amount of hours I

have per day to cover all the fees for the other things.What is it

exactly that you do now?

> Any advice on potential careers (from anyone) would be greatly

appreciated since I loved my last one but it was physically killing

me I do not think I can go back to that.

> Ruth

>

[Guest guest]

Today I work part-time teaching. That's abt what I can handle

since teaching doesn't pay very well....I certainly need more

help today than I can afford and it's a dilemma. I might have to

go back to recruiting again (because of the salary) but that would

mean that I won't be

able to help students with AS anymore....

I don't know what will

happen??? I'm in a difficult situation at the moment also struggling

with healtissues (bad spinalproblems and minor heartproblems due to

stress ). I also have severe problems with friendships. I can't

socialize the way I'd like and I dont know how to keep friends

either....and on top of it I dont understand people, beeing AS or not.

I'm probably not the person that should be giving advice at this

moment.

Lotta

> Lotta,

> Thank you so much for sharing all of this information about you and

work etc. When I saw this last part written I had to save it and

reply to this specifically. In a way you have given me a little

reassurance that I am not alone. I seem to be able to manage one job

and that is it. I did best at my work or career when I had a nanny

full time. But when she could not help the kids in the way that only

I could I was not able to manage my career/job any more. I have come

to the conclusion that the only way I could " work " now is if I had

someone else do all the things you mentioned here. I have not yet

figured out a job that pays enough in the short amount of hours I

have per day to cover all the fees for the other things.What is it

exactly that you do now?

> Any advice on potential careers (from anyone) would be greatly

appreciated since I loved my last one but it was physically killing

me I do not think I can go back to that.

> Ruth

>

[Guest guest]

Tom,

Thank you very much, Tom. That post ment more to me today than you

could have known....

I have just been verbally attcked by an Aspie-friend

who claims I dont need any help because I used yo have my own

business/employees and shouldn't receive help designed for the truly

disabled

The whole idea was disgusting even applying for it she wrote....(I

mean even my doctor disagrees with that....and thinks I need the

assistance in life)

The sad part is that this is a close friend (or at least I thought

so) that really knows abt my situation. Someone listens and doesn't

disagree...to be that is agreeing....I can't interperet everything

with close friends. Shall I never have a moment of relaxation unless

I avoid all human contact?

What really hurts is that I never see these things coming whether

it's a person with AS or not. Especially if I have any kind of

friendship involved. I'm soo suupernaive, don't read signs and

actually think that everything is fine and than...Boom...I get

slapped again. I'm so unhappy that the ability to read others (when I

know them especially) doesn't seem to increase either.

Makes me wanna dig a hole and ccrawl down there for shelter...

Lotta

> >

> Today I work part-time teaching. That's abt what I can handle

> since teaching doesn't pay very well....I certainly need more

> help today than I can afford and it's a dilemma. I might have to

> go back to recruiting again (because of the salary) but that would

> mean that I won't be able to help students with AS anymore....

>

> I don't know what will happen??? I'm in a difficult situation at

the

> moment also struggling with healtissues (bad spinalproblems and

> minor heartproblems due to stress ). I also have severe problems

> with friendships. I can't socialize the way I'd like and I dont

know

> how to keep friends either....and on top of it I dont understand

> people, beeing AS or not.

>

> I'm probably not the person that should be giving advice at this

> moment.

>

> Lotta

[Guest guest]

Tom,

Thank you very much, Tom. That post ment more to me today than you

could have known....

I have just been verbally attcked by an Aspie-friend

who claims I dont need any help because I used yo have my own

business/employees and shouldn't receive help designed for the truly

disabled

The whole idea was disgusting even applying for it she wrote....(I

mean even my doctor disagrees with that....and thinks I need the

assistance in life)

The sad part is that this is a close friend (or at least I thought

so) that really knows abt my situation. Someone listens and doesn't

disagree...to be that is agreeing....I can't interperet everything

with close friends. Shall I never have a moment of relaxation unless

I avoid all human contact?

What really hurts is that I never see these things coming whether

it's a person with AS or not. Especially if I have any kind of

friendship involved. I'm soo suupernaive, don't read signs and

actually think that everything is fine and than...Boom...I get

slapped again. I'm so unhappy that the ability to read others (when I

know them especially) doesn't seem to increase either.

Makes me wanna dig a hole and ccrawl down there for shelter...

Lotta

> >

> Today I work part-time teaching. That's abt what I can handle

> since teaching doesn't pay very well....I certainly need more

> help today than I can afford and it's a dilemma. I might have to

> go back to recruiting again (because of the salary) but that would

> mean that I won't be able to help students with AS anymore....

>

> I don't know what will happen??? I'm in a difficult situation at

the

> moment also struggling with healtissues (bad spinalproblems and

> minor heartproblems due to stress ). I also have severe problems

> with friendships. I can't socialize the way I'd like and I dont

know

> how to keep friends either....and on top of it I dont understand

> people, beeing AS or not.

>

> I'm probably not the person that should be giving advice at this

> moment.

>

> Lotta

[Guest guest]

Tom,

Thank you very much, Tom. That post ment more to me today than you

could have known....

I have just been verbally attcked by an Aspie-friend

who claims I dont need any help because I used yo have my own

business/employees and shouldn't receive help designed for the truly

disabled

The whole idea was disgusting even applying for it she wrote....(I

mean even my doctor disagrees with that....and thinks I need the

assistance in life)

The sad part is that this is a close friend (or at least I thought

so) that really knows abt my situation. Someone listens and doesn't

disagree...to be that is agreeing....I can't interperet everything

with close friends. Shall I never have a moment of relaxation unless

I avoid all human contact?

What really hurts is that I never see these things coming whether

it's a person with AS or not. Especially if I have any kind of

friendship involved. I'm soo suupernaive, don't read signs and

actually think that everything is fine and than...Boom...I get

slapped again. I'm so unhappy that the ability to read others (when I

know them especially) doesn't seem to increase either.

Makes me wanna dig a hole and ccrawl down there for shelter...

Lotta

> >

> Today I work part-time teaching. That's abt what I can handle

> since teaching doesn't pay very well....I certainly need more

> help today than I can afford and it's a dilemma. I might have to

> go back to recruiting again (because of the salary) but that would

> mean that I won't be able to help students with AS anymore....

>

> I don't know what will happen??? I'm in a difficult situation at

the

> moment also struggling with healtissues (bad spinalproblems and

> minor heartproblems due to stress ). I also have severe problems

> with friendships. I can't socialize the way I'd like and I dont

know

> how to keep friends either....and on top of it I dont understand

> people, beeing AS or not.

>

> I'm probably not the person that should be giving advice at this

> moment.

>

> Lotta

[Guest guest]

I feel some times as thought I am in a very tricky spot between

normal and disfunctional. On one side we have " normal " people who

manage to get through day to day activities without much hassle. On

the other side are the people who are unable to do normal things

without assistance and are clearly in need of accomodations. In

between you have people like me who can do day to day things but

with much more difficulty than normal people. I am not entitled to

any accomodations because I have already demonstrated my ability to

do things without assistance. The extra effort that it takes is

largely invisible to other people. The extra effort/stress I go

thorough doesn't seem to count for anything. If I try to explain to

people about how much more difficult it is, they don't believe me.

The only thing that seem to matter is whether I can do things. Once

people realize that I can do things, I don't get cut any slack. If

you demonstrate an ability to do domething, people assume that you

should be able to do it any time they need you to do it.

I found out about AS fairly recently in my life. I went through

life not understanding why thing should be do difficult or why I had

problems with things that should be easy. People refused to accept

that certain things were very difficult or stressful for me. I

suppose it didn't help much that I could not explain why. In the

common way of thinking at the time, the fact that I had demonstrated

proof of being signficantly above average in intelligence, ment that

I could not possibly have a learning disablity. So I pretty much

went through life with everyone around me having the attitude that I

had no excuse at all for my failures and problems.

I wish more could be done for the people like me who fall inbetween,

but I am not sure really what that would be. Nothing special has

been done for me. It is all my efforts learning to compensate,

working extra hard, reading lots of self helf books, trying just

about every anti stress technique I have heard of. Is there a

better way?

I feel a sense of accomplishment for what I have done, even though I

cannot brag about it because in the eyes of most people all I have

done is the same things all people are expected to be able to do for

themselves. I feel jelous sometimes of the admiration that people

with physical difficulties recieve when they overcome their

difficulties to lead normal lives. I wish sometimes I could have

something like that, but instead I am trapped by definitions. If I

am able to overcome my mental limitations and difficulties, that

means that my difficulties are not serious enough to be a disability.

Ilah

> >

> Tom,

>

> Thank you very much, Tom. That post ment more to me today than you

> could have known....

>

> I have just been verbally attcked by an Aspie-friend who claims I

> dont need any help because I used to have my own

business/employees

> and shouldn't receive help designed for the truly disabled.

>

> The whole idea was disgusting even applying for it she wrote....(I

> mean even my doctor disagrees with that....and thinks I need the

> assistance in life)

>

> The sad part is that this is a close friend (or at least I thought

> so) that really knows abt my situation. Someone listens and doesn't

> disagree...to be that is agreeing....I can't interperet everything

> with close friends. Shall I never have a moment of relaxation

unless

> I avoid all human contact?

>

> What really hurts is that I never see these things coming whether

> it's a person with AS or not. Especially if I have any kind of

> friendship involved. I'm soo suupernaive, don't read signs and

> actually think that everything is fine and than...Boom...I get

> slapped again. I'm so unhappy that the ability to read others

(when I

> know them especially) doesn't seem to increase either.

>

> Makes me wanna dig a hole and ccrawl down there for shelter...

>

> Lotta

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

I used to have meltdowns and bread down, but haven't again since I know being asperger. As soon as I understood my puzzly-me and figured it all out, I could prevent myself from getting overloaded. Hopefully I will manage to continue keeping myself safe from any overload.

Lida

wrote:Hi,I think I can understand what you have wrote. I have struggled through life and still continue to, but only because there is no option. What most do not see are the 'meltdowns' I experience when alone - I say when alone, because I manage to hold them in for as long as possible and more and more is heaped upon me and I finally break, but I break in private away from eyes. I do not want people to see me, I do not want their emotional responses that I have seen given to others who break down publicly. Hope this makes sense. How many others break down privately? or have meldowns privately?> > I feel some times as thought I am in a very tricky spot between > normal and disfunctional. On one side we have "normal" people who > manage to get through day to day activities without much hassle. On > the other side are the people who are unable to do normal things > without assistance and are clearly in need of accomodations. In > between you have people like me who can do day to day things but > with much more difficulty than normal people. I am not entitled to > any accomodations because I have already demonstrated my ability to > do things without assistance. The extra effort that it takes is > largely invisible to other people. The extra effort/stress I go > thorough doesn't seem to count for anything. If I try to explain to > people about how much more difficult it is, they don't believe me. > The only thing that seem to matter is whether I can do things. Once > people realize that I can do things, I don't get cut any slack. If > you demonstrate an ability to do domething, people assume that you > should be able to do it any time they need you to do it.> > I found out about AS fairly recently in my life. I went through > life not understanding why thing should be do difficult or why I had > problems with things that should be easy. People refused to accept > that certain things were very difficult or stressful for me. I > suppose it didn't help much that I could not explain why. In the > common way of thinking at the time, the fact that I had demonstrated > proof of being signficantly above average in intelligence, ment that > I could not possibly have a learning disablity. So I pretty much > went through life with everyone around me having the attitude that I > had no excuse at all for my failures and problems.> > I wish more could be done for the people like me who fall inbetween, > but I am not sure really what that would be. Nothing special has > been done for me. It is all my efforts learning to compensate, > working extra hard, reading lots of self helf books, trying just > about every anti stress technique I have heard of. Is there a > better way?> > I feel a sense of accomplishment for what I have done, even though I > cannot brag about it because in the eyes of most people all I have > done is the same things all people are expected to be able to do for > themselves. I feel jelous sometimes of the admiration that people > with physical difficulties recieve when they overcome their > difficulties to lead normal lives. I wish sometimes I could have > something like that, but instead I am trapped by definitions. If I > am able to overcome my mental limitations and difficulties, that > means that my difficulties are not serious enough to be a disability.> > Ilah> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked "Other FAM Sites."

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

I used to have meltdowns and bread down, but haven't again since I know being asperger. As soon as I understood my puzzly-me and figured it all out, I could prevent myself from getting overloaded. Hopefully I will manage to continue keeping myself safe from any overload.

Lida

wrote:Hi,I think I can understand what you have wrote. I have struggled through life and still continue to, but only because there is no option. What most do not see are the 'meltdowns' I experience when alone - I say when alone, because I manage to hold them in for as long as possible and more and more is heaped upon me and I finally break, but I break in private away from eyes. I do not want people to see me, I do not want their emotional responses that I have seen given to others who break down publicly. Hope this makes sense. How many others break down privately? or have meldowns privately?> > I feel some times as thought I am in a very tricky spot between > normal and disfunctional. On one side we have "normal" people who > manage to get through day to day activities without much hassle. On > the other side are the people who are unable to do normal things > without assistance and are clearly in need of accomodations. In > between you have people like me who can do day to day things but > with much more difficulty than normal people. I am not entitled to > any accomodations because I have already demonstrated my ability to > do things without assistance. The extra effort that it takes is > largely invisible to other people. The extra effort/stress I go > thorough doesn't seem to count for anything. If I try to explain to > people about how much more difficult it is, they don't believe me. > The only thing that seem to matter is whether I can do things. Once > people realize that I can do things, I don't get cut any slack. If > you demonstrate an ability to do domething, people assume that you > should be able to do it any time they need you to do it.> > I found out about AS fairly recently in my life. I went through > life not understanding why thing should be do difficult or why I had > problems with things that should be easy. People refused to accept > that certain things were very difficult or stressful for me. I > suppose it didn't help much that I could not explain why. In the > common way of thinking at the time, the fact that I had demonstrated > proof of being signficantly above average in intelligence, ment that > I could not possibly have a learning disablity. So I pretty much > went through life with everyone around me having the attitude that I > had no excuse at all for my failures and problems.> > I wish more could be done for the people like me who fall inbetween, > but I am not sure really what that would be. Nothing special has > been done for me. It is all my efforts learning to compensate, > working extra hard, reading lots of self helf books, trying just > about every anti stress technique I have heard of. Is there a > better way?> > I feel a sense of accomplishment for what I have done, even though I > cannot brag about it because in the eyes of most people all I have > done is the same things all people are expected to be able to do for > themselves. I feel jelous sometimes of the admiration that people > with physical difficulties recieve when they overcome their > difficulties to lead normal lives. I wish sometimes I could have > something like that, but instead I am trapped by definitions. If I > am able to overcome my mental limitations and difficulties, that > means that my difficulties are not serious enough to be a disability.> > Ilah> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked "Other FAM Sites."

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

I used to have meltdowns and bread down, but haven't again since I know being asperger. As soon as I understood my puzzly-me and figured it all out, I could prevent myself from getting overloaded. Hopefully I will manage to continue keeping myself safe from any overload.

Lida

wrote:Hi,I think I can understand what you have wrote. I have struggled through life and still continue to, but only because there is no option. What most do not see are the 'meltdowns' I experience when alone - I say when alone, because I manage to hold them in for as long as possible and more and more is heaped upon me and I finally break, but I break in private away from eyes. I do not want people to see me, I do not want their emotional responses that I have seen given to others who break down publicly. Hope this makes sense. How many others break down privately? or have meldowns privately?> > I feel some times as thought I am in a very tricky spot between > normal and disfunctional. On one side we have "normal" people who > manage to get through day to day activities without much hassle. On > the other side are the people who are unable to do normal things > without assistance and are clearly in need of accomodations. In > between you have people like me who can do day to day things but > with much more difficulty than normal people. I am not entitled to > any accomodations because I have already demonstrated my ability to > do things without assistance. The extra effort that it takes is > largely invisible to other people. The extra effort/stress I go > thorough doesn't seem to count for anything. If I try to explain to > people about how much more difficult it is, they don't believe me. > The only thing that seem to matter is whether I can do things. Once > people realize that I can do things, I don't get cut any slack. If > you demonstrate an ability to do domething, people assume that you > should be able to do it any time they need you to do it.> > I found out about AS fairly recently in my life. I went through > life not understanding why thing should be do difficult or why I had > problems with things that should be easy. People refused to accept > that certain things were very difficult or stressful for me. I > suppose it didn't help much that I could not explain why. In the > common way of thinking at the time, the fact that I had demonstrated > proof of being signficantly above average in intelligence, ment that > I could not possibly have a learning disablity. So I pretty much > went through life with everyone around me having the attitude that I > had no excuse at all for my failures and problems.> > I wish more could be done for the people like me who fall inbetween, > but I am not sure really what that would be. Nothing special has > been done for me. It is all my efforts learning to compensate, > working extra hard, reading lots of self helf books, trying just > about every anti stress technique I have heard of. Is there a > better way?> > I feel a sense of accomplishment for what I have done, even though I > cannot brag about it because in the eyes of most people all I have > done is the same things all people are expected to be able to do for > themselves. I feel jelous sometimes of the admiration that people > with physical difficulties recieve when they overcome their > difficulties to lead normal lives. I wish sometimes I could have > something like that, but instead I am trapped by definitions. If I > am able to overcome my mental limitations and difficulties, that > means that my difficulties are not serious enough to be a disability.> > Ilah> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked "Other FAM Sites."

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

I guess I do something like the 'protecting shield' thing that has been mentioned on this board as well. I still need to coop with things I have no control over such as unexpected or undesired changes et cetera, but I am not as 'hard' as I used to be for myself. I forgive myself for things I can not do. That makes me more relaxed. I also feel much less as a failure as I felt befor. All the opposite: I think for a person with asperger - meaning: being different in a mostly NT-world - I manage not bad at all.

What is in my advantage I think, is that I have never wanted to make myself fit in this mostly-strange world. Not befor I knew being asperger and certainly not now, being aware of it. I also am a person who tries to just bother about essential things. I refuse to spend my time and energy on things that are not essential to me. If people around me accept that, well, that's nice. If some don't accept that... well, that is their problem, not mine.

I don't know. For me it helps to go through my life in the best way for me.

Lida

wrote:

I wish I could avoid the things that cause meltdowns, but it seems I have no choice. The things I have no choice in are things such as meetings concerning my son's education and I suppose there are others too. Things I have no control over, unexpected change etc.Oh hum.> Hello ,> > I used to have meltdowns and bread down, but haven't again since I know being asperger. As soon as I understood my puzzly-me and figured it all out, I could prevent myself from getting overloaded. HopefullyI will manage to continue keeping myself safe from any overload. > > Lida> > FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked "Other FAM Sites."

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

I guess I do something like the 'protecting shield' thing that has been mentioned on this board as well. I still need to coop with things I have no control over such as unexpected or undesired changes et cetera, but I am not as 'hard' as I used to be for myself. I forgive myself for things I can not do. That makes me more relaxed. I also feel much less as a failure as I felt befor. All the opposite: I think for a person with asperger - meaning: being different in a mostly NT-world - I manage not bad at all.

What is in my advantage I think, is that I have never wanted to make myself fit in this mostly-strange world. Not befor I knew being asperger and certainly not now, being aware of it. I also am a person who tries to just bother about essential things. I refuse to spend my time and energy on things that are not essential to me. If people around me accept that, well, that's nice. If some don't accept that... well, that is their problem, not mine.

I don't know. For me it helps to go through my life in the best way for me.

Lida

wrote:

I wish I could avoid the things that cause meltdowns, but it seems I have no choice. The things I have no choice in are things such as meetings concerning my son's education and I suppose there are others too. Things I have no control over, unexpected change etc.Oh hum.> Hello ,> > I used to have meltdowns and bread down, but haven't again since I know being asperger. As soon as I understood my puzzly-me and figured it all out, I could prevent myself from getting overloaded. HopefullyI will manage to continue keeping myself safe from any overload. > > Lida> > FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked "Other FAM Sites."

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

I guess I do something like the 'protecting shield' thing that has been mentioned on this board as well. I still need to coop with things I have no control over such as unexpected or undesired changes et cetera, but I am not as 'hard' as I used to be for myself. I forgive myself for things I can not do. That makes me more relaxed. I also feel much less as a failure as I felt befor. All the opposite: I think for a person with asperger - meaning: being different in a mostly NT-world - I manage not bad at all.

What is in my advantage I think, is that I have never wanted to make myself fit in this mostly-strange world. Not befor I knew being asperger and certainly not now, being aware of it. I also am a person who tries to just bother about essential things. I refuse to spend my time and energy on things that are not essential to me. If people around me accept that, well, that's nice. If some don't accept that... well, that is their problem, not mine.

I don't know. For me it helps to go through my life in the best way for me.

Lida

wrote:

I wish I could avoid the things that cause meltdowns, but it seems I have no choice. The things I have no choice in are things such as meetings concerning my son's education and I suppose there are others too. Things I have no control over, unexpected change etc.Oh hum.> Hello ,> > I used to have meltdowns and bread down, but haven't again since I know being asperger. As soon as I understood my puzzly-me and figured it all out, I could prevent myself from getting overloaded. HopefullyI will manage to continue keeping myself safe from any overload. > > Lida> > FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked "Other FAM Sites."

[Guest guest]

Tom:

> The key to living is to TRY to look outside the box, even if we can't

> always get the flaps open to do it.

LOL! That would make a great tagline! :-)

Inger

[Guest guest]

Tom:

> The key to living is to TRY to look outside the box, even if we can't

> always get the flaps open to do it.

LOL! That would make a great tagline! :-)

Inger

[Guest guest]

Tom:

> The key to living is to TRY to look outside the box, even if we can't

> always get the flaps open to do it.

LOL! That would make a great tagline! :-)

Inger

[Guest guest]

Hello,

To me it is very much alike. I also can imagine or even empathise with persons although I do not at the same time agree with them.

I have even noticed that if someone tries to explain me something about themselves and I do not agree with them, I can still say 'I can imagine that'. That normally has a good effect: the person feels understood and doesn't have to defend him/herself and I don't need to agree or disagree.

Probably some times the oter person thinks that 'I can imagine' means 'I agree'. When it is crucial that they do not think that, I say 'I can imagine, but I don't agree.'

Lida

Inger wrote:

>I think I've always been more of a "shades" person myself. I can usually empathise even with people who do things that harm others, including crimials of every type. That doesn't mean I accept their behavior. Just that I can imagine how they got to be the way they are. And I can't help but feel sorry for them since I know that they will either have suffered a lot earlier in life and/or will suffer in the future as a consequence of their actions.

[Guest guest]

Hello,

To me it is very much alike. I also can imagine or even empathise with persons although I do not at the same time agree with them.

I have even noticed that if someone tries to explain me something about themselves and I do not agree with them, I can still say 'I can imagine that'. That normally has a good effect: the person feels understood and doesn't have to defend him/herself and I don't need to agree or disagree.

Probably some times the oter person thinks that 'I can imagine' means 'I agree'. When it is crucial that they do not think that, I say 'I can imagine, but I don't agree.'

Lida

Inger wrote:

>I think I've always been more of a "shades" person myself. I can usually empathise even with people who do things that harm others, including crimials of every type. That doesn't mean I accept their behavior. Just that I can imagine how they got to be the way they are. And I can't help but feel sorry for them since I know that they will either have suffered a lot earlier in life and/or will suffer in the future as a consequence of their actions.

[Guest guest]

Lida:

> To me it is very much alike. I also can imagine or even empathise with persons although I do not at the same time agree with them.

Right. I also don't have to like a person to see that their ideas may have merit.

> I have even noticed that if someone tries to explain me something about themselves and I do not agree with them, I can still say 'I can imagine that'. That normally has a good effect: the person feels understood and doesn't have to defend him/herself and I don't need to agree or disagree.

Great that you have discovered this. I don't think I would have ever figured it out without the help of Marshall Rosenberg (as part of Nonviolent Communication http://www.cnvc.org/nvc.htm); that if one can show understanding for the other person's feelings or POV, they often feel better, even if one doesn't share their opinion or is willing to do what they wish.

Feeling seen and understood must be one of the most basic human needs there is. I think this is also one which we Aspies find hardest in this world. Not only do we suffer alot, but when we try to explain it, no one understands. And that is often the most painful of all. That's why it is often such a relief to find others who understand because they have had similar experiences themselves. Even just finding ONE person who understands can make all the difference.

> Probably some times the oter person thinks that 'I can imagine' means 'I agree'. When it is crucial that they do not think that, I say 'I can imagine, but I don't agree.'

Clever! I'll have to remember that.

Inger

Inger wrote:

>I think I've always been more of a "shades" person myself. I can usually empathise even with people who do things that harm others, including crimials of every type. That doesn't mean I accept their behavior. Just that I can imagine how they got to be the way they are. And I can't help but feel sorry for them since I know that they will either have suffered a lot earlier in life and/or will suffer in the future as a consequence of their actions.

FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked "Other FAM Sites."

[Guest guest]

Lida:

> To me it is very much alike. I also can imagine or even empathise with persons although I do not at the same time agree with them.

Right. I also don't have to like a person to see that their ideas may have merit.

> I have even noticed that if someone tries to explain me something about themselves and I do not agree with them, I can still say 'I can imagine that'. That normally has a good effect: the person feels understood and doesn't have to defend him/herself and I don't need to agree or disagree.

Great that you have discovered this. I don't think I would have ever figured it out without the help of Marshall Rosenberg (as part of Nonviolent Communication http://www.cnvc.org/nvc.htm); that if one can show understanding for the other person's feelings or POV, they often feel better, even if one doesn't share their opinion or is willing to do what they wish.

Feeling seen and understood must be one of the most basic human needs there is. I think this is also one which we Aspies find hardest in this world. Not only do we suffer alot, but when we try to explain it, no one understands. And that is often the most painful of all. That's why it is often such a relief to find others who understand because they have had similar experiences themselves. Even just finding ONE person who understands can make all the difference.

> Probably some times the oter person thinks that 'I can imagine' means 'I agree'. When it is crucial that they do not think that, I say 'I can imagine, but I don't agree.'

Clever! I'll have to remember that.

Inger

Inger wrote:

>I think I've always been more of a "shades" person myself. I can usually empathise even with people who do things that harm others, including crimials of every type. That doesn't mean I accept their behavior. Just that I can imagine how they got to be the way they are. And I can't help but feel sorry for them since I know that they will either have suffered a lot earlier in life and/or will suffer in the future as a consequence of their actions.

FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked "Other FAM Sites."

[Guest guest]

Lida:

> To me it is very much alike. I also can imagine or even empathise with persons although I do not at the same time agree with them.

Right. I also don't have to like a person to see that their ideas may have merit.

> I have even noticed that if someone tries to explain me something about themselves and I do not agree with them, I can still say 'I can imagine that'. That normally has a good effect: the person feels understood and doesn't have to defend him/herself and I don't need to agree or disagree.

Great that you have discovered this. I don't think I would have ever figured it out without the help of Marshall Rosenberg (as part of Nonviolent Communication http://www.cnvc.org/nvc.htm); that if one can show understanding for the other person's feelings or POV, they often feel better, even if one doesn't share their opinion or is willing to do what they wish.

Feeling seen and understood must be one of the most basic human needs there is. I think this is also one which we Aspies find hardest in this world. Not only do we suffer alot, but when we try to explain it, no one understands. And that is often the most painful of all. That's why it is often such a relief to find others who understand because they have had similar experiences themselves. Even just finding ONE person who understands can make all the difference.

> Probably some times the oter person thinks that 'I can imagine' means 'I agree'. When it is crucial that they do not think that, I say 'I can imagine, but I don't agree.'

Clever! I'll have to remember that.

Inger

Inger wrote:

>I think I've always been more of a "shades" person myself. I can usually empathise even with people who do things that harm others, including crimials of every type. That doesn't mean I accept their behavior. Just that I can imagine how they got to be the way they are. And I can't help but feel sorry for them since I know that they will either have suffered a lot earlier in life and/or will suffer in the future as a consequence of their actions.

FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked "Other FAM Sites."

[Guest guest]

I have been fortunate in that the people I attracted tend to think like I do on many issues. It is also fortunate that most of the people I work with also think more or less like I do on many issues.

Interestingly, I am also do believe in absolutes. I see things mostly as black and white with just a little grey right on the border between them. So, as long as my friends and all agreed on the major points, then different views on the peripheral issues didn't matter. The best example that comes to mind was one of my good friends in high school. He's Catholic and I'm Baptist. We talked religion a few times and we agreed on all the basics and important stuff, but the details about Catholicism or Protestantism didn't matter. Its that way on other issues as well.

I'm also friends with people who's views are very different from my own. That is handled very simply by not talking about those issues.

[Guest guest]

I have been fortunate in that the people I attracted tend to think like I do on many issues. It is also fortunate that most of the people I work with also think more or less like I do on many issues.

Interestingly, I am also do believe in absolutes. I see things mostly as black and white with just a little grey right on the border between them. So, as long as my friends and all agreed on the major points, then different views on the peripheral issues didn't matter. The best example that comes to mind was one of my good friends in high school. He's Catholic and I'm Baptist. We talked religion a few times and we agreed on all the basics and important stuff, but the details about Catholicism or Protestantism didn't matter. Its that way on other issues as well.

I'm also friends with people who's views are very different from my own. That is handled very simply by not talking about those issues.

[Guest guest]

You've got me thinking too :-)

I have been accused of black and white thinking and

intellectualizing

(sp?, sorry it's lateish here) things and yet theoretically I can

also see many shades of grey.

Yes I think there may be differences amongst those on the spectrum

and also some common ground too. I think this is just down to the

people. Some people are nice, some people are not - that is just

the way it is AS or not. Maybe I am over simplifying things a bit -

I do not know?

***I think that sums it up nicely. APTs are more likely than NTs to

hurt a person's feelings or be rude by accident. However I have

seen both NTs and APTs that are deliberately rude or insulting.***

Also as for being honest and blunt, I think people without AS can

be like this, maybe because of their beliefs in being honest, or

maybe some intentionally are blunt, or for other reasons?

I think with AS it is almost unavoidable - it is like almost

uncontrollable thing. I say 'almost' because I know of people with

AS that have learnt to lie, but that their lie would not hold up

under questioning and I have heard/know of those on the spectrum

that can learn tact - to a degree; but however the 1st and natural

response is to be honest and blunt.

***My mom is APT, but has trained herself to lie (and act as NT as

possible). Whenever anyone asks her opinion on something it is

always " good " or " very nice. " She is in my opinion, not a very

convincing liar. I think that APTs are not as good at telling lies

as NTs, probably because controlling tone or voice and facial

expressions is more difficult. An APT could be percieved as not

being sincer, because they did not " say it like they ment it. " This

is especially true if the lie is something that would have an

emotional componet to it, for example " I am so happy you gave me

this beautiful gift " or " I'm really sorry. " I personally, am very

bad at faking emotion in a convicing way. I have enough difficulty

with showing my actual emotions, instead of a neutral face/tone. If

an APT has a very limited range of expressions/tones or voice, it is

sometimes impossible to tell if they are being truthful. My mom is

like this. The problem is that most of the time she smiles, but it

is a very fake looking smile. I think probably her natural

expression would be to always look very serious (like many APTs do),

but she has trained herself to smile. She was telling me to smile,

so I guess she was trying to train me to be like her.

A funny little story about my mom. A few years ago, I made my first

quilt. I was not able to get all the edges to line up perfectly.

My mom was visiting and I was taking about the quilt. My husband

said, " It wasn't really bad for a first quilt. " Then my mom

said, " Oh, yes, it is really very nice for a first quilt. " Then I

said, " Mom, you haven't even see the quilt yet. " So it is a

little difficult to take my mom's comments as being truthful.

It is very difficult to be both tactful and honest, but it can be

done (at least sometimes). Given a choice between being tactful and

honest, I think most NTs will choose a polite lie and most APTs will

choose to be bluntly honest. This is something that is difficult

for me. I sometimes feel like being tactful waters down what I was

trying to say, especially if I feel strongly about something. If I

twist my words to be tactful, it sometimes will sound like I have a

minor disagreement with something when I really have a major issue

with it.

Ilah***

Does any of this make any sense? I hope - lack of sleep and schoold

hol's is my excuse/reason if not :-)

[Guest guest]

I find tact quite difficult too. I dread hearing the words 'what do

you think?' especially if in regards to how something looks.

If it is someone I know well I can be my honest self without any

problems, but an outsider may consider my truthfull honesty blunt and

rude. If I do not know the person as well, I try to be tactfull, but

still cannot lie; I try lines like 'it's not my style, but if you

like it then that's fine'. I suppose it sounds lame, but it's the

nearest I can manage to social politeness. Or if I think it's

absolutely dreadfull I will say 'I'm not sure, I'm not keen on it,

but if you like it then that's fine'. Still I sometimes do not get it

right and just blurt out exactly what I think without any fore

thought.

I really do not want to hurt peoples feelings and I always think if

they like it then that's all that matters really; but it is hard and

if it comes to issues - if I disagree I will say so and why.

>

>

> You've got me thinking too :-)

>

> I have been accused of black and white thinking and

> intellectualizing

> (sp?, sorry it's lateish here) things and yet theoretically I can

> also see many shades of grey.

>

> Yes I think there may be differences amongst those on the spectrum

> and also some common ground too. I think this is just down to the

> people. Some people are nice, some people are not - that is just

> the way it is AS or not. Maybe I am over simplifying things a bit -

> I do not know?

>

> ***I think that sums it up nicely. APTs are more likely than NTs

to

> hurt a person's feelings or be rude by accident. However I have

> seen both NTs and APTs that are deliberately rude or insulting.***

>

> Also as for being honest and blunt, I think people without AS can

> be like this, maybe because of their beliefs in being honest, or

> maybe some intentionally are blunt, or for other reasons?

>

> I think with AS it is almost unavoidable - it is like almost

> uncontrollable thing. I say 'almost' because I know of people with

> AS that have learnt to lie, but that their lie would not hold up

> under questioning and I have heard/know of those on the spectrum

> that can learn tact - to a degree; but however the 1st and natural

> response is to be honest and blunt.

>

> ***My mom is APT, but has trained herself to lie (and act as NT as

> possible). Whenever anyone asks her opinion on something it is

> always " good " or " very nice. " She is in my opinion, not a very

> convincing liar. I think that APTs are not as good at telling lies

> as NTs, probably because controlling tone or voice and facial

> expressions is more difficult. An APT could be percieved as not

> being sincer, because they did not " say it like they ment it. "

This

> is especially true if the lie is something that would have an

> emotional componet to it, for example " I am so happy you gave me

> this beautiful gift " or " I'm really sorry. " I personally, am very

> bad at faking emotion in a convicing way. I have enough difficulty

> with showing my actual emotions, instead of a neutral face/tone.

If

> an APT has a very limited range of expressions/tones or voice, it

is

> sometimes impossible to tell if they are being truthful. My mom is

> like this. The problem is that most of the time she smiles, but it

> is a very fake looking smile. I think probably her natural

> expression would be to always look very serious (like many APTs

do),

> but she has trained herself to smile. She was telling me to smile,

> so I guess she was trying to train me to be like her.

>

> A funny little story about my mom. A few years ago, I made my

first

> quilt. I was not able to get all the edges to line up perfectly.

> My mom was visiting and I was taking about the quilt. My husband

> said, " It wasn't really bad for a first quilt. " Then my mom

> said, " Oh, yes, it is really very nice for a first quilt. " Then I

> said, " Mom, you haven't even see the quilt yet. " So it is a

> little difficult to take my mom's comments as being truthful.

>

> It is very difficult to be both tactful and honest, but it can be

> done (at least sometimes). Given a choice between being tactful

and

> honest, I think most NTs will choose a polite lie and most APTs

will

> choose to be bluntly honest. This is something that is difficult

> for me. I sometimes feel like being tactful waters down what I was

> trying to say, especially if I feel strongly about something. If I

> twist my words to be tactful, it sometimes will sound like I have a

> minor disagreement with something when I really have a major issue

> with it.

>

> Ilah***

>

> Does any of this make any sense? I hope - lack of sleep and

schoold

> hol's is my excuse/reason if not :-)

>

>

[Guest guest]

Compounding things for me is that I have a tendency to grin or laugh

whilst being honest. Most of the time it's because I know there is

no real way to tell the other person the truth and I know I'mgoing to

get lammed for whatever it is I'm about to say.

I smile out of nervousness, in other words.

Here are some of the varoius responses I've given (and thoughts I've

kept to myself) to the question " What do you think? " :

Response Number One:

What I say: Are you looking for a compliment or for you want me to be

honest?

What I'm thinking of saying: I think it's the worst idea I've ever

heard of in my entirelife.

(Or)

It makes you look fat.

Extremely fat.

Like the Hindenburg before it crashed and burned, only fatter.

Response Number Two:

2) What I say: Do you really want a response or are you just fishing

for compliments?

2) What I'm thinking: Because if you're fishing for compliments,

you're not going to get them from me.

Response Number Three:

3) What I say: Do you really want my opinion or are you just looking

for someone to confirm what you're already thinking?

3) What I'm thinking: Because if the answer to the second half of the

question is yes, just record your thoughts on a casette tape and play

it back as many times as necessary until you're satisfied. And stop

wastingmy time.

Response Number Four:

4) What I say: Do you really want my opinion, or do you just want a

mirror?

4) What I'm thinking: Why ask my opinion if you're not really

interested in hearing it, anyway?

I find it very interesting that I can pick up on these little nuances

of conversation even though I'm an Aspie and Aspies are supposed to

lack empathy.

At any rate...now you can all guess why I only have one friend

besides Inger.

Tom

>

I find tact quite difficult too. I dread hearing the words 'what do

you think?' especially if in regards to how something looks.

If it is someone I know well I can be my honest self without any

problems, but an outsider may consider my truthfull honesty blunt and

rude. If I do not know the person as well, I try to be tactfull, but

still cannot lie; I try lines like 'it's not my style, but if you

like it then that's fine'. I suppose it sounds lame, but it's the

nearest I can manage to social politeness. Or if I think it's

absolutely dreadfull I will say 'I'm not sure, I'm not keen on it,

but if you like it then that's fine'. Still I sometimes do not get it

right and just blurt out exactly what I think without any fore

thought.

I really do not want to hurt peoples feelings and I always think if

they like it then that's all that matters really; but it is hard and

if it comes to issues - if I disagree I will say so and why.