F3 F4 Alpha/Beta assymetry for left hander

September 22, 2007

Can one proceed with the usual traing of alpha and beta ratios at F3 F4 for a left handed person with depression?

Mark

September 22, 2007

May wish to peruse Chapter 3, Measuring Sidedness, in The Left-Hander Syndrome by Stanley Coren for hints.

Other options include occluding the blood supply to one side of the brain momentarily to see what is affected. Some do a similar thing by injecting anesthesia laterally to see what gets shut down. I do not advocate or recommend any of the above, but they have been done.//Peder

September 22, 2007

At ISNR a couple of weeks ago, I heard Kaiser refer to Hiscock's work on determining hemispheric dominance for language. An interesting article, for example, is the one below. I believe the idea would be to take baseline finger tapping rates with each hand, and then collect finger tapping rates while the client reads (

i.e., performs a dual or interference task). The hand which shows the most interference by reading would then be contralateral to the hemisphere that is dominant for language.

Kosaka, B., Hiscock, M., Strauss, E., Wada, J. et al. (1993). Dual task performance by patients with left or right speech dominance as determinted by carotid amytal test. Neuropsychologia, 31, 12-136.

Abstract: 22 patients (a group composed of epileptics with medically refractory seizures) who had their speech dominance determined by carotid Amytal testing were evaluated with a dual task procedure consisting of reading and finger tapping. The 18 Ss with left hemisphere speech tended to show greater interference in the right hand whereas the 4 Ss with right hemisphere speech showed greater interference in the left hand. Since the right hemisphere dominant Ss were also right-handed, the results suggest that interference effects are more closely linked to speech than to motor dominance.

Dear in Berlin:Ashtung:I don't know how you do the evaluation of left handiness in righthanded person, what method you use I did not seen any one mentioningbefore here. I'm new in this area still learning from you experts

guys. I have not even been initiated in the training but after readingall the posts I'm getting more courage.So the method I use to identify handiness is by clapping hands Procedure ask the client to sit back relax hands on the laps

Then at the count of 3 clap one hand over the other Count one two three CLAP And the hand that is on top is the dominating handOr the way I understand is the one closest to brain reaction.It works for me Really like to know if testing the brain at same time what section ofthe brains reacts better.Please let me know what happen while the client is wired up and claps..Kindly Chripczuk From Paradise Gold Coast Australia

>> Hi Mark and Pete,> > I recently gave an Alpha Beta Symmetry session (F3/F4) to a femalepatient. The LENS > treatment had taken care of her panic attacks and depression and I

wanted to give her a > couple safe and sound NFB sessions for further enlightenment andease in life. And what's > nicer for that than a bit of Alpha Beta Symmetry ( I thought ).> > The next day she called and reported a severe panic attack at night

! Oh, fuck.> > Perhaps I should have paid a tiny bit more attention to the facts that> 1. she was a mixed-hander ( so probably a left-hander, who wastrained to use the nice > hand rather than the naughty one )

> 2. the thermoscopy of her pre-frontal cortex showed a " cooler area " on the right, around > Fp2 (in depressed right-handers one would expect that on the left,around Fp1 !), an > indication, that she is a real leftie.

> > She forgave me, we did the same session again with the channelsswapped and she was > happy then. At least we know now and I've learnt my lesson.> > In case someone knows a reliable test how to identify real lefties

(to my knowledge, most > left-handers are still the " right " way round in the brain), pleaselet me know.> > in Berlin>

-- R. , Ph.D., C.Psych., ABPPPsychologist and Adjunct ProfessorApplied Disability Studies ProgramBrock University78 Bond Street NorthHamilton, OntarioL8S 3W5

September 22, 2007

,

Thanks! That's a very helpful piece of information!

, as you noted, the issue of handedness wasn't necessarily what caused the problem in your client. As I wrote previously, to the best of my knowledge there's no indication that even those reversed for language are reversed in terms of their approach/avoidance laterality. Looking at the EEG BEFORE training, rather than afterwards, would be a good approach in terms of avoiding this sort of thing in the future (though I understand that you German guys do tend to at the end of the sentence your verbs to write.)

If you want to do a relatively safe NF session, I'd suggest maybe alpha synchrony at P3/A1 and P4/A2 (link the references) rather than alpha beta symmetry.

Pete

At ISNR a couple of weeks ago, I heard Kaiser refer to Hiscock's work on determining hemispheric dominance for language. An interesting article, for example, is the one below. I believe the idea would be to take baseline finger tapping rates with each hand, and then collect finger tapping rates while the client reads ( i.e., performs a dual or interference task). The hand which shows the most interference by reading would then be contralateral to the hemisphere that is dominant for language.

Kosaka, B., Hiscock, M., Strauss, E., Wada, J. et al. (1993). Dual task performance by patients with left or right speech dominance as determinted by carotid amytal test. Neuropsychologia, 31, 12-136.

Abstract: 22 patients (a group composed of epileptics with medically refractory seizures) who had their speech dominance determined by carotid Amytal testing were evaluated with a dual task procedure consisting of reading and finger tapping. The 18 Ss with left hemisphere speech tended to show greater interference in the right hand whereas the 4 Ss with right hemisphere speech showed greater interference in the left hand. Since the right hemisphere dominant Ss were also right-handed, the results suggest that interference effects are more closely linked to speech than to motor dominance.

On 9/22/07, <peterch@...

> wrote:

Dear in Berlin:Ashtung:I don't know how you do the evaluation of left handiness in righthanded person, what method you use I did not seen any one mentioningbefore here. I'm new in this area still learning from you experts guys. I have not even been initiated in the training but after readingall the posts I'm getting more courage.So the method I use to identify handiness is by clapping hands Procedure ask the client to sit back relax hands on the laps Then at the count of 3 clap one hand over the other Count one two three CLAP And the hand that is on top is the dominating handOr the way I understand is the one closest to brain reaction.It works for me Really like to know if testing the brain at same time what section ofthe brains reacts better.Please let me know what happen while the client is wired up and claps..Kindly Chripczuk From Paradise Gold Coast Australia >> Hi Mark and Pete,> > I recently gave an Alpha Beta Symmetry session (F3/F4) to a femalepatient. The LENS > treatment had taken care of her panic attacks and depression and I wanted to give her a > couple safe and sound NFB sessions for further enlightenment andease in life. And what's > nicer for that than a bit of Alpha Beta Symmetry ( I thought ).> > The next day she called and reported a severe panic attack at night ! Oh, fuck.> > Perhaps I should have paid a tiny bit more attention to the facts that> 1. she was a mixed-hander ( so probably a left-hander, who wastrained to use the nice > hand rather than the naughty one ) > 2. the thermoscopy of her pre-frontal cortex showed a " cooler area " on the right, around > Fp2 (in depressed right-handers one would expect that on the left,around Fp1 !), an > indication, that she is a real leftie. > > She forgave me, we did the same session again with the channelsswapped and she was > happy then. At least we know now and I've learnt my lesson.> > In case someone knows a reliable test how to identify real lefties (to my knowledge, most > left-handers are still the " right " way round in the brain), pleaselet me know.> > in Berlin>

-- R. , Ph.D., C.Psych., ABPPPsychologist and Adjunct Professor

Applied Disability Studies ProgramBrock University78 Bond Street NorthHamilton, OntarioL8S 3W5 -- Van Deusen

pvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

September 23, 2007

,

Fantastic! what other gem did you pick up at ISNR?

Celine

September 23, 2007

Hey there, Celine!

I got to shake Karl Pribram's hand and chat with him for a few minutes! What a charming man.

I'm now working with 3 ABI participants in Niagara, and preparing a show-and-tell presentation for the agency there.

It's so much information, but some of it is starting to sink in.

I met Steve Stockdale who is with Deymed and knows Janet MacMillan, your neighbor, who has a Deymed QEEG device. Carmichael is another person I met; he's a psychologist from Kamloops and was elected to be a member at large for ISNR. A very nice man.

I'm still trying to figure out the bipolar montage thing, though. I guess Sue Othmer uses it pretty exclusively.

I've been meaning to ask you and what type of HEG device you have. I spoke with Hershel Toomim, but didn't quite follow much of what he said, and couldn't get much information from him about research results with his nIR HEG. Milstead at bio-medical.com does say that there is a way to get the nIR to work with the ProComp Infiniti, but it may be that the pIR is what would be best. I'm a little foggy about what Pete said about one increasing coherence and the other decreasing coherence. I guess since you can get problems with frontal hyper- or hypo-coherence one might want each type of device. Then there's a pIR device that EEG Info sells that's about twice what Carmen's costs, but has 3 sensors. I'm not sure if any pIR HEG is connectable to the Thought Tech equipment.

I did get a DAVID PAL device, hearing several people commenting that it really is a useful adjunct to neurofeedback, and remembering that you find it helpful.

How are you and and your roof? All snug and ready for a hopefully more snowy winter, I hope.

,

Fantastic! what other gem did you pick up at ISNR?

Celine

-- R. , Ph.D., C.Psych., ABPPPsychologist and Adjunct ProfessorApplied Disability Studies ProgramBrock University78 Bond Street NorthHamilton, OntarioL8S 3W5

September 24, 2007

Hershel sells a device and software suite compatible with Infinity.

Mark

Re: Re: F3 F4 Alpha/Beta assymetry for left hander