Re: is this OCD or something else?

[Guest guest]

Dear PAH:

I have experienced incidents with my OCD son that sounds VERY similar to

what you describe with your daughter. I attribute the aggression to his anger

that I won't do what in his mind will take care of the anxiety for him. To

him it seems so simple - if I just move the " contaminated " Gatorade bottle away

from him (for example), the anxiety will go away, and everything will be

just fine for him. If I refuse, it becomes my fault for prolonging the anxiety

and he becomes angry and aggressive towards me. I am suddenly responsible

for the anxiety. The scene in the parking lot you describe could easily be one

out of our lives. I think the " controlled " aggression comes from the small

part of him that is recognizing that what he is doing is unreasonable, and he

is still got a tiny bit of control that hasn't melted away. I can't tell you

the number of times I have been shoved, pulled, lightly kicked etc. It's

not until the anxiety becomes so large that the control completely dissipates

that he becomes truly violent.

As for the complete " rebound " your daughter did - my son often does this

too. It's as if once the anxiety provoking thing is taken care of, it all

washes away. He remembers the incident, but is often embarrassed by his

behavior

or worried that I won't love him anymore. He doesn't want to talk about it

right then, and wants to change the subject so he can forget momentarily.

Have you talked with your daughter about it since then? My son will often

process with me several hours or even a day or two later after one of these

incidents. He says it feels like his head will explode if I don't do the thing

he

wants/OCD " NEEDS " me to do.

It is very scary to watch my child in the grips of an OCD panic attack. He

looks possessed, and in a way, he is not present. My younger son (age 5)

says it is like OCD stole his brother's brain for a while. It feels like

someone has stolen my child and replaced him with some kind of ugly monster. I

know from talking with him after wards it is very scary for him too. The brain

makes him feel like he is truly in danger and he reacts accordingly...If

your psych. tells you it's anything other than OCD, I'd be interested to hear

it, as it would send me back to the books and our doc as well.

Hang in there!! - in MI

[Guest guest]

I also would not start my child on Depakote based on a nurse practitioner's

judgement. Bipolar disorder is both very serious and quite rare, whereas OCD

is not at all rare and much easier to treat. I would have an experienced

child psychiatrist diagnose her if there is any doubt as to whether she has

bipolar disorder or not, even if means driving a ways and waiting for an

appointment. If she does have bipolar disorder she should not be on Zoloft

without a

mood stabilizer being on board first. That alone makes me wonder what the

nurse practitioner is doing!

We have a wonderful psychiatric nurse practitioner here whom I really

like and trust, but I wouldn't feel comfortable having her diagnose my child.

Once diagnosed, I'd trust her to treat the child, unless it was a complicated

case. I chose not to have her treat my daughter because she has OCD, ADHD and

TS and I felt that when more than one drug was involved, I really wanted an

expert.

This is all just my opinion, of course. I hope it helps!

Good luck,

in NV

[Guest guest]

,

It was so good to hear from a mother who is experiencing the exact

type of problem. OCD kids are so very different. Yes, I did talk to

my daughter and she told me the exact thing your son said. She tells

me that her head will explode. She will not talk to me right after

the incident because she wants to act as if it never happened because

she is embarrassed and sorry, but it happens again and again. She

says she does not know why and cries because she feels so bad. She

needs to erase the present OCD thoughts with anyone around her

repeating what they were doing at the time of the thought--like a

time machine. If I don't go back in time to help her erase the acts

then her head will explode. That's when she goes into the rage.

I did get an appointment not with the psychiatrist but with his

nurse practioner. She said " I think your daughter has bipolar

disorder. " and she wants her to start Depakote. I am uncomfortable

with this right now. Does this nurse practioner really know enough

about OCD to make this medicine decision? I have faxed the

psychiatrist to review my daughter's record to see if he agress with

the NP's recommendation.

I will keep you informed. What is your son on? My daughter is on

200mg of Zoloft.

> Dear PAH:

>

> I have experienced incidents with my OCD son that sounds VERY

similar to

> what you describe with your daughter. I attribute the aggression

to his anger

> that I won't do what in his mind will take care of the anxiety for

him. To

> him it seems so simple - if I just move the " contaminated "

Gatorade bottle away

> from him (for example), the anxiety will go away, and everything

will be

> just fine for him. If I refuse, it becomes my fault for

prolonging the anxiety

> and he becomes angry and aggressive towards me. I am suddenly

responsible

> for the anxiety. The scene in the parking lot you describe could

easily be one

> out of our lives. I think the " controlled " aggression comes from

the small

> part of him that is recognizing that what he is doing is

unreasonable, and he

> is still got a tiny bit of control that hasn't melted away. I

can't tell you

> the number of times I have been shoved, pulled, lightly kicked

etc. It's

> not until the anxiety becomes so large that the control completely

dissipates

> that he becomes truly violent.

>

> As for the complete " rebound " your daughter did - my son often

does this

> too. It's as if once the anxiety provoking thing is taken care of,

it all

> washes away. He remembers the incident, but is often embarrassed by

his behavior

> or worried that I won't love him anymore. He doesn't want to talk

about it

> right then, and wants to change the subject so he can forget

momentarily.

> Have you talked with your daughter about it since then? My son

will often

> process with me several hours or even a day or two later after one

of these

> incidents. He says it feels like his head will explode if I don't

do the thing he

> wants/OCD " NEEDS " me to do.

>

> It is very scary to watch my child in the grips of an OCD panic

attack. He

> looks possessed, and in a way, he is not present. My younger son

(age 5)

> says it is like OCD stole his brother's brain for a while. It

feels like

> someone has stolen my child and replaced him with some kind of

ugly monster. I

> know from talking with him after wards it is very scary for him

too. The brain

> makes him feel like he is truly in danger and he reacts

accordingly...If

> your psych. tells you it's anything other than OCD, I'd be

interested to hear

> it, as it would send me back to the books and our doc as well.

>

> Hang in there!! - in MI

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear PAH:

I just wanted to echo the others replies. If it were my child, I would NOT

start her on the Depakote based on the NP's diagnosis. What is she basing

this on? How much experience does she have in treating children your daughter's

age for both OCD and bipolar? I have often described my son's reactions/rages

to our pdoc, and he has never once suggested this is anything other than

OCD.

I know 3 weeks seems like an eternity to wait, but wait is exactly what I

would do until you see the psychiatrist himself. In the meantime, I would

scour the internet and/or book stores and read everything you can about

childhood bipolar disorder to see if you feel like it fits for your daughter. I

know

for us, everything started making sense after we got the OCD diagnosis. For

about 9 months prior my son was diagnosed GAD, and it just didn't seem right.

When it was changed to OCD and I started reading and learning more about

the disorder, I could recognize him to a tee. You know your daughter best -

trust your instincts.

Has she ever tried another SSRI besides Zoloft? Maybe another might be more

helpful? Is she in therapy? After learning CBT/ERP, my son (on his really

good days), has actually been overheard " bossing back " OCD on his own (in a

store - " I don't HAVE to buy anything! You can't make me OCD!) On harder days,

he can still often tell me " Mom, OCD is bothering me again. What should I

do? " He still gives in to compulsions and rages now and again,(especially when

he's tired) but much farther and fewer between than pre therapy.

Would your daughter post on the kids OCD support group while you await your

appt.? I know this has been very helpful for many of our kids. Keep us

posted on how she is doing. - in MI