RE: breathing, HRV questions

[Guest guest]

Jill,

Yes, I understand what you are saying. You are refering to the through the heart breathing, yes? I have found it difficult to teach some people how to not focus on themselves on their head, while they are training. One kid will nod his head but I can kind of see that he doesn't really get it and so he's going to be polite but nothing is going to change. At this point my husband is still somewhat defiant. It ebbs and flows with the training at this point. If someone knows of maybe a CD or something that would guide him that would be a good idea as we do suffer from a wife trying to help a husband thing. I can see I need to do some more reading in this area.

-Nita

From: Glacier Biofeedback <voyagercyberport (DOT) net>Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questionsTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comDate: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d suggest that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and make it a less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s using his diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower automatically if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be able to breathe so that if you

watch his chest, you don’t see any movement. All the movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s real skinny, he may not be able to get all the movement out of his chest, but it’s something to shoot for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s probably trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of anitafainSent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:55 AMTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comSubject: breathing, HRV questions

I am using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues, confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't

count with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a metronome in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this. Any thoughtsNita FainHome Trainer

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[Guest guest]

Yes, I’m referring to the ‘heart breathing’.

It is difficult to teach it to another person. It’s doing two things at once –

visualizing a person, place or thing that you love, and being aware of the

sensations around the heart. It requires that one place his/her attention

within the body, and some people are unaccustomed to that and find it

difficult. There should have been a little book that came with your copy of

the Freeze Framer – it might help. There are other books available on the

HeartMath website – perhaps they have a CD. I don’t really find the music CDs

by Doc Childre very helpful in my practice, but perhaps there may be some other

audio ones by now.

Jill

From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf Of Anita Fain

Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:34

PM

To: braintrainer

Subject: RE:

breathing, HRV questions

Jill,

Yes, I

understand what you are saying. You are refering to the through the

heart breathing, yes? I have found it difficult to teach some people

how to not focus on themselves on their head, while they are training. One

kid will nod his head but I can kind of see that he doesn't really get it and

so he's going to be polite but nothing is going to change. At this

point my husband is still somewhat defiant. It ebbs and flows with the

training at this point. If someone knows of maybe a CD or something

that would guide him that would be a good idea as we do suffer from a wife

trying to help a husband thing. I can see I need to do some more

reading in this area.

-Nita

From:

Glacier Biofeedback <voyagercyberport (DOT) net>

Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questions

To: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com

Date: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It

is the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and

they are always surprised when they can’t get high coherence

ratios. You are right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be

exaggerating the use if he’s getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of

hyperventilation. I’d suggest that he focus on using the diaphragm,

but breathe more slowly and make it a less radical movement (be

gentle!). That said, if he’s using his diaphragm, his respiratory

center will reset his rate to slower automatically if he’s not trying to

adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts, exhale 4

counts, hold 4 counts. He should be able to breathe so that if you

watch his chest, you don’t see any movement. All the movement is in

the abdomen. Of course if he’s real skinny, he may not be able to

get all the movement out of his chest, but it’s something to shoot

for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s probably trying too

hard! Good luck!

Jill

From:

braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of anitafain

Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008

10:55 AM

To: braintrainer@

yahoogroups. com

Subject:

breathing, HRV questions

I

am using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with

anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues,

confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is

responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help

improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with

good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He

is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart

rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's

like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like

this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he

begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very

well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell

him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't count

with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a metronome

in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have

stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very

lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved

while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the

high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this.

Any thoughts

Nita Fain

Home Trainer

Be

a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

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friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

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it now.

[Guest guest]

Jill,

I've not thought to even look at that little book. I'm one of those people who doesn't read directions. It's the little phamplet that comes inside the case? I didn't get anything else with it. I might do some looking around for other stuff. They make a nice kids type thing "The Boy and The Bear" book and a CD that I have used for my youngest. It did teach her how to relax, talks about relaxing the arms, lying on a warm rock... to this day she knows HOW to relax and she didn't before that. Yes, I find it very difficult to explain HOW to get out of your head and into your body. There I am saying think of this... but don't think.... It is indeed a matter of focusing on something else. The Open Focus book has some good descriptions of it but I am more open to all of this than others. I too have not found the music very helpful. Sometimes I use it for the sound in my neurotherapy

because it's calming but that is about it.

Thanks for the help and suggestions. I'll keep looking and see what I can find to help me with this.

-Nita

From: Glacier Biofeedback <voyagercyberport (DOT) net>Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questionsTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comDate: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d suggest that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and make it a less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s using his diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower automatically if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be able to breathe so that if you

watch his chest, you don’t see any movement. All the movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s real skinny, he may not be able to get all the movement out of his chest, but it’s something to shoot for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s probably trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of anitafainSent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:55 AMTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comSubject: breathing, HRV questions

I am using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues, confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't

count with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a metronome in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this. Any thoughtsNita FainHome Trainer

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

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