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Posted
Posted

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze

Framer extensively in my practice. It is the musicians who will tell you that

they know how to breathe, and they are always surprised when they can’t

get high coherence ratios. You are right on with the diaphragm use, but he may

be exaggerating the use if he’s getting lightheaded – that’s

a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d suggest that he focus on using the

diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and make it a less radical movement (be

gentle!). That said, if he’s using his diaphragm, his respiratory center

will reset his rate to slower automatically if he’s not trying to adhere

to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4

counts. He should be able to breathe so that if you watch his chest, you don’t

see any movement. All the movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s

real skinny, he may not be able to get all the movement out of his chest, but

it’s something to shoot for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s

probably trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf Of anitafain

Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:55

AM

To: braintrainer

Subject: breathing,

HRV questions

I am using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has

struggled with

anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues,

confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is

responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help

improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with

good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He

is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart

rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's

like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like

this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he

begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very

well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell

him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't count

with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a metronome

in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have

stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very

lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved

while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the

high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this.

Any thoughts

Nita Fain

Home Trainer

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Posted
Posted

Jill,

I have a swimmer who has similar issues. :-) But I don't train her she simply tried to use the Freeze Framer once and was indeed stunned that her breathing wasn't perfect. Her kids are MUCH better than her. HA!

Yes, I think he was indeed trying much too hard as is his nature. When his breathing was so bad I saw no movement at all in his abdoment, NONE. Then when I mentioned the diaphragm he moved it a lot. Yes, too much I think. This time I tried to make very light of the whole thing, no big deal let's just count and see how we do. Counting is essential for him apparently. I tried to keep busy doing other things to help keep the focus off of him. I praised him when he did well and let him know whenthe tone stopped not to worry it would return to simply just continue to breath. He did seem much more calm this time and reluctantly admitted he wasn't as light headed. He is very adverse to change so I considered this an accomplishment on his part.

Thanks for all the information and support. I tried Gordon but was never able to get Yahoo to take my reply.

-Nita

Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questionsTo: braintrainer Date: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d suggest that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and make it a less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s using his diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower automatically if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be able to breathe so that if you

watch his chest, you don’t see any movement. All the movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s real skinny, he may not be able to get all the movement out of his chest, but it’s something to shoot for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s probably trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of anitafainSent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:55 AMTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comSubject: breathing, HRV questions

I am using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues, confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't

count with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a metronome in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this. Any thoughtsNita FainHome Trainer

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

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Posted
Posted

Jill,

I have a swimmer who has similar issues. :-) But I don't train her she simply tried to use the Freeze Framer once and was indeed stunned that her breathing wasn't perfect. Her kids are MUCH better than her. HA!

Yes, I think he was indeed trying much too hard as is his nature. When his breathing was so bad I saw no movement at all in his abdoment, NONE. Then when I mentioned the diaphragm he moved it a lot. Yes, too much I think. This time I tried to make very light of the whole thing, no big deal let's just count and see how we do. Counting is essential for him apparently. I tried to keep busy doing other things to help keep the focus off of him. I praised him when he did well and let him know whenthe tone stopped not to worry it would return to simply just continue to breath. He did seem much more calm this time and reluctantly admitted he wasn't as light headed. He is very adverse to change so I considered this an accomplishment on his part.

Thanks for all the information and support. I tried Gordon but was never able to get Yahoo to take my reply.

-Nita

Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questionsTo: braintrainer Date: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d suggest that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and make it a less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s using his diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower automatically if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be able to breathe so that if you

watch his chest, you don’t see any movement. All the movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s real skinny, he may not be able to get all the movement out of his chest, but it’s something to shoot for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s probably trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of anitafainSent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:55 AMTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comSubject: breathing, HRV questions

I am using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues, confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't

count with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a metronome in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this. Any thoughtsNita FainHome Trainer

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

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Posted
Posted

Jill,

I have a swimmer who has similar issues. :-) But I don't train her she simply tried to use the Freeze Framer once and was indeed stunned that her breathing wasn't perfect. Her kids are MUCH better than her. HA!

Yes, I think he was indeed trying much too hard as is his nature. When his breathing was so bad I saw no movement at all in his abdoment, NONE. Then when I mentioned the diaphragm he moved it a lot. Yes, too much I think. This time I tried to make very light of the whole thing, no big deal let's just count and see how we do. Counting is essential for him apparently. I tried to keep busy doing other things to help keep the focus off of him. I praised him when he did well and let him know whenthe tone stopped not to worry it would return to simply just continue to breath. He did seem much more calm this time and reluctantly admitted he wasn't as light headed. He is very adverse to change so I considered this an accomplishment on his part.

Thanks for all the information and support. I tried Gordon but was never able to get Yahoo to take my reply.

-Nita

Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questionsTo: braintrainer Date: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d suggest that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and make it a less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s using his diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower automatically if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be able to breathe so that if you

watch his chest, you don’t see any movement. All the movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s real skinny, he may not be able to get all the movement out of his chest, but it’s something to shoot for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s probably trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of anitafainSent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:55 AMTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comSubject: breathing, HRV questions

I am using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues, confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't

count with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a metronome in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this. Any thoughtsNita FainHome Trainer

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

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Posted
Posted

simply can not afford a capnometer. As for an update... I trained my husband again last night. His anxiety was evident. After 25 minutes of symmetry neurotherapy I did the HRV training for 10 minutes. He did better by a noticeable amount than the previous times. He spent about 60% of his time in the lower tone range, good, and even 5% in the excellent range. His graph is beginning to show more of a wave pattern, still small but it's there. He was lightheaded but not nearly as much as before. I continue to be surprised that he must force himself to count every breath or he will immediately return to his worm graph. I will be curious to see if continued training reduces his migraines. They started in his early 30's when he was working on his masters. He said that yes he did learn to overbreath as it is

part of playing a brass instrument. He did many hours of practice everyday for years.

-Nita

Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questionsTo: braintrainer Date: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d suggest that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and make it a less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s using his diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower automatically if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be able to breathe so that if you

watch his chest, you don’t see any movement. All the movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s real skinny, he may not be able to get all the movement out of his chest, but it’s something to shoot for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s probably trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of anitafainSent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:55 AMTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comSubject: breathing, HRV questions

I am using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues, confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't

count with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a metronome in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this. Any thoughtsNita FainHome Trainer

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

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Posted
Posted

simply can not afford a capnometer. As for an update... I trained my husband again last night. His anxiety was evident. After 25 minutes of symmetry neurotherapy I did the HRV training for 10 minutes. He did better by a noticeable amount than the previous times. He spent about 60% of his time in the lower tone range, good, and even 5% in the excellent range. His graph is beginning to show more of a wave pattern, still small but it's there. He was lightheaded but not nearly as much as before. I continue to be surprised that he must force himself to count every breath or he will immediately return to his worm graph. I will be curious to see if continued training reduces his migraines. They started in his early 30's when he was working on his masters. He said that yes he did learn to overbreath as it is

part of playing a brass instrument. He did many hours of practice everyday for years.

-Nita

Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questionsTo: braintrainer Date: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d suggest that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and make it a less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s using his diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower automatically if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be able to breathe so that if you

watch his chest, you don’t see any movement. All the movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s real skinny, he may not be able to get all the movement out of his chest, but it’s something to shoot for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s probably trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of anitafainSent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:55 AMTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comSubject: breathing, HRV questions

I am using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues, confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't

count with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a metronome in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this. Any thoughtsNita FainHome Trainer

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Link to comment
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Posted
Posted

Nita,

You may know this but a woman on this list gave me wonderful

advice on treating migraines.  Reduce low alpha in the back of the head. 

I was increasing alpha in the back of my head and giving myself

migraines.  I changed the reward to 10-12 and they are gone.

I don’t remember who it was but she said she treated to inhibit

8-10.

She was right on! 

Connie

From:

braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf

Of Anita Fain

Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:57 PM

To: braintrainer

Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questions

simply can not afford a capnometer. As for an

update... I trained my husband again last night. His anxiety was

evident. After 25 minutes of symmetry neurotherapy I did the HRV

training for 10 minutes. He did better by a noticeable amount than the

previous times. He spent about 60% of his time in the lower tone range,

good, and even 5% in the excellent range. His graph is beginning to

show more of a wave pattern, still small but it's there. He was lightheaded

but not nearly as much as before. I continue to be surprised that he

must force himself to count every breath or he will immediately return to his

worm graph. I will be curious to see if continued training reduces his

migraines. They started in his early 30's when he was working on his

masters. He said that yes he did learn to overbreath as it is part of

playing a brass instrument. He did many hours of practice everyday for

years.

-Nita

From: Glacier Biofeedback

Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questions

To: braintrainer

Date: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi

Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is

the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are

always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are

right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s

getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d suggest

that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and make it a

less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s using his

diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower automatically

if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4 counts, hold 4

counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be able to breathe so

that if you watch his chest, you don’t see any movement. All the movement

is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s real skinny, he may not be able to

get all the movement out of his chest, but it’s something to shoot for.

If anxiety is his pattern, he’s probably trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@

yahoogroups. com [mailto: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of anitafain

Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:55 AM

To: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com

Subject: breathing, HRV questions

I am using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with

anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues,

confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is

responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help

improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with

good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He

is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart

rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's

like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like

this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he

begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very

well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell

him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't count

with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a metronome

in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have

stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very

lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved

while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the

high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this.

Any thoughts

Nita Fain

Home Trainer

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!

Mobile. Try

it now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Nita,

You may know this but a woman on this list gave me wonderful

advice on treating migraines.  Reduce low alpha in the back of the head. 

I was increasing alpha in the back of my head and giving myself

migraines.  I changed the reward to 10-12 and they are gone.

I don’t remember who it was but she said she treated to inhibit

8-10.

She was right on! 

Connie

From:

braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf

Of Anita Fain

Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:57 PM

To: braintrainer

Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questions

simply can not afford a capnometer. As for an

update... I trained my husband again last night. His anxiety was

evident. After 25 minutes of symmetry neurotherapy I did the HRV

training for 10 minutes. He did better by a noticeable amount than the

previous times. He spent about 60% of his time in the lower tone range,

good, and even 5% in the excellent range. His graph is beginning to

show more of a wave pattern, still small but it's there. He was lightheaded

but not nearly as much as before. I continue to be surprised that he

must force himself to count every breath or he will immediately return to his

worm graph. I will be curious to see if continued training reduces his

migraines. They started in his early 30's when he was working on his

masters. He said that yes he did learn to overbreath as it is part of

playing a brass instrument. He did many hours of practice everyday for

years.

-Nita

From: Glacier Biofeedback

Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questions

To: braintrainer

Date: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi

Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is

the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are

always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are

right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s

getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d suggest

that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and make it a

less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s using his

diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower automatically

if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4 counts, hold 4

counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be able to breathe so

that if you watch his chest, you don’t see any movement. All the movement

is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s real skinny, he may not be able to

get all the movement out of his chest, but it’s something to shoot for.

If anxiety is his pattern, he’s probably trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@

yahoogroups. com [mailto: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of anitafain

Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:55 AM

To: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com

Subject: breathing, HRV questions

I am using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with

anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues,

confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is

responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help

improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with

good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He

is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart

rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's

like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like

this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he

begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very

well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell

him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't count

with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a metronome

in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have

stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very

lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved

while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the

high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this.

Any thoughts

Nita Fain

Home Trainer

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!

Mobile. Try

it now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Great Work, Anita! I think you’re right –

it IS an accomplishment, for both of you! The calmer he gets, the less

light-headed he’ll be. Did his coherence ratio build a little?

Jill

From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf Of Anita Fain

Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:52

AM

To: braintrainer

Subject: RE:

breathing, HRV questions

Jill,

I have

a swimmer who has similar issues. :-) But I don't train her she

simply tried to use the Freeze Framer once and was indeed stunned that her

breathing wasn't perfect. Her kids are MUCH better than her. HA!

Yes, I

think he was indeed trying much too hard as is his nature. When his

breathing was so bad I saw no movement at all in his abdoment, NONE.

Then when I mentioned the diaphragm he moved it a lot. Yes, too much I

think. This time I tried to make very light of the whole thing, no big

deal let's just count and see how we do. Counting is essential for him

apparently. I tried to keep busy doing other things to help keep the

focus off of him. I praised him when he did well and let him know

whenthe tone stopped not to worry it would return to simply just continue to

breath. He did seem much more calm this time and reluctantly admitted

he wasn't as light headed. He is very adverse to change so I considered

this an accomplishment on his part.

Thanks

for all the information and support. I tried Gordon but was never

able to get Yahoo to take my reply.

-Nita

From: Glacier

Biofeedback <voyagercyberport (DOT) net>

Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questions

To: braintrainer

Date: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is

the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are

always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are

right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s

getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d suggest

that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and make it a

less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s using his

diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower automatically

if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4 counts, hold 4

counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be able to breathe so

that if you watch his chest, you don’t see any movement. All the

movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s real skinny, he may not

be able to get all the movement out of his chest, but it’s something to shoot

for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s probably trying too hard!

Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com

[mailto: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On

Behalf Of anitafain

Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008

10:55 AM

To: braintrainer@ yahoogroups.

com

Subject:

breathing, HRV questions

I am

using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with

anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues,

confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is

responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help

improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with

good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He

is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart

rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's

like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like

this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he

begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very

well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell

him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't count

with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a metronome

in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have

stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very

lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved

while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the

high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this.

Any thoughts

Nita Fain

Home Trainer

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it now.

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Posted
Posted

Great Work, Anita! I think you’re right –

it IS an accomplishment, for both of you! The calmer he gets, the less

light-headed he’ll be. Did his coherence ratio build a little?

Jill

From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf Of Anita Fain

Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:52

AM

To: braintrainer

Subject: RE:

breathing, HRV questions

Jill,

I have

a swimmer who has similar issues. :-) But I don't train her she

simply tried to use the Freeze Framer once and was indeed stunned that her

breathing wasn't perfect. Her kids are MUCH better than her. HA!

Yes, I

think he was indeed trying much too hard as is his nature. When his

breathing was so bad I saw no movement at all in his abdoment, NONE.

Then when I mentioned the diaphragm he moved it a lot. Yes, too much I

think. This time I tried to make very light of the whole thing, no big

deal let's just count and see how we do. Counting is essential for him

apparently. I tried to keep busy doing other things to help keep the

focus off of him. I praised him when he did well and let him know

whenthe tone stopped not to worry it would return to simply just continue to

breath. He did seem much more calm this time and reluctantly admitted

he wasn't as light headed. He is very adverse to change so I considered

this an accomplishment on his part.

Thanks

for all the information and support. I tried Gordon but was never

able to get Yahoo to take my reply.

-Nita

From: Glacier

Biofeedback <voyagercyberport (DOT) net>

Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questions

To: braintrainer

Date: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is

the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are

always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are

right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s

getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d suggest

that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and make it a

less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s using his

diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower automatically

if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4 counts, hold 4

counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be able to breathe so

that if you watch his chest, you don’t see any movement. All the

movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s real skinny, he may not

be able to get all the movement out of his chest, but it’s something to shoot

for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s probably trying too hard!

Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com

[mailto: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On

Behalf Of anitafain

Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008

10:55 AM

To: braintrainer@ yahoogroups.

com

Subject:

breathing, HRV questions

I am

using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with

anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues,

confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is

responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help

improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with

good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He

is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart

rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's

like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like

this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he

begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very

well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell

him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't count

with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a metronome

in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have

stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very

lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved

while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the

high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this.

Any thoughts

Nita Fain

Home Trainer

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try

it now.

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Share on other sites
Guest guest

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Posted
Posted

Thanks Jill. Yes it did increase a little. I was beginning to wonder if I was on the right track but last nights work increased my confidence. Thanks for the encouragement.

Ok, so that raises a question. One of my other trainers once said she thought that the neurotherapy helped her do better on her breathing. So if I am training to decrease her anxiety, high beta and symmetry issues this will also improve her coherence ratio?.

-Nita

From: Glacier Biofeedback <voyagercyberport (DOT) net>Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questionsTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comDate: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d suggest that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and make it a less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s using his diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower automatically if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be able to breathe so that if you

watch his chest, you don’t see any movement. All the movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s real skinny, he may not be able to get all the movement out of his chest, but it’s something to shoot for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s probably trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of anitafainSent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:55 AMTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comSubject: breathing, HRV questions

I am using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues, confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't

count with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a metronome in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this. Any thoughtsNita FainHome Trainer

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

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Posted
Posted

Thanks Jill. Yes it did increase a little. I was beginning to wonder if I was on the right track but last nights work increased my confidence. Thanks for the encouragement.

Ok, so that raises a question. One of my other trainers once said she thought that the neurotherapy helped her do better on her breathing. So if I am training to decrease her anxiety, high beta and symmetry issues this will also improve her coherence ratio?.

-Nita

From: Glacier Biofeedback <voyagercyberport (DOT) net>Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questionsTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comDate: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d suggest that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and make it a less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s using his diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower automatically if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be able to breathe so that if you

watch his chest, you don’t see any movement. All the movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s real skinny, he may not be able to get all the movement out of his chest, but it’s something to shoot for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s probably trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of anitafainSent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:55 AMTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comSubject: breathing, HRV questions

I am using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues, confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't

count with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a metronome in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this. Any thoughtsNita FainHome Trainer

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

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Posted
Posted

Thanks Jill. Yes it did increase a little. I was beginning to wonder if I was on the right track but last nights work increased my confidence. Thanks for the encouragement.

Ok, so that raises a question. One of my other trainers once said she thought that the neurotherapy helped her do better on her breathing. So if I am training to decrease her anxiety, high beta and symmetry issues this will also improve her coherence ratio?.

-Nita

From: Glacier Biofeedback <voyagercyberport (DOT) net>Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questionsTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comDate: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d suggest that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and make it a less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s using his diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower automatically if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be able to breathe so that if you

watch his chest, you don’t see any movement. All the movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s real skinny, he may not be able to get all the movement out of his chest, but it’s something to shoot for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s probably trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of anitafainSent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:55 AMTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comSubject: breathing, HRV questions

I am using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues, confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't

count with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a metronome in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this. Any thoughtsNita FainHome Trainer

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Posted
Posted

Thanks Connie. I have read some things like that and I'm sure the message you are talking about is one I read. At the time I had not convinced my husband that training was worth his time so I was trying to ignore what I read. :-) He was quite addicted to Immitrex and caffeine. I did get him off of both of those so the migraines have become more manageable. At this time I am working on his anxiety as it causes him daily problems. I've read many times where Pete encourages sticking to one protocol at a time. What are your thoughts on adding this protocol to his training or waiting until I am further along with his anxiety work. His Alpha is not high in his frontal regions but I do not remember if this was the case in the back of the head.

-Nita

From: Glacier Biofeedback <voyagercyberport (DOT) net>Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questionsTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comDate: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d suggest that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and make it a less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s using his diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower automatically if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be able to breathe so that if you watch his chest, you don’t see any movement.

All the movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s real skinny, he may not be able to get all the movement out of his chest, but it’s something to shoot for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s probably trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of anitafainSent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:55 AMTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comSubject: breathing, HRV questions

I am using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues, confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't count with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a

metronome in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this. Any thoughtsNita FainHome Trainer

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Posted
Posted

Thanks Connie. I have read some things like that and I'm sure the message you are talking about is one I read. At the time I had not convinced my husband that training was worth his time so I was trying to ignore what I read. :-) He was quite addicted to Immitrex and caffeine. I did get him off of both of those so the migraines have become more manageable. At this time I am working on his anxiety as it causes him daily problems. I've read many times where Pete encourages sticking to one protocol at a time. What are your thoughts on adding this protocol to his training or waiting until I am further along with his anxiety work. His Alpha is not high in his frontal regions but I do not remember if this was the case in the back of the head.

-Nita

From: Glacier Biofeedback <voyagercyberport (DOT) net>Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questionsTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comDate: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d suggest that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and make it a less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s using his diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower automatically if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be able to breathe so that if you watch his chest, you don’t see any movement.

All the movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s real skinny, he may not be able to get all the movement out of his chest, but it’s something to shoot for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s probably trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of anitafainSent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:55 AMTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comSubject: breathing, HRV questions

I am using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues, confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't count with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a

metronome in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this. Any thoughtsNita FainHome Trainer

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Posted
Posted

Thanks Connie. I have read some things like that and I'm sure the message you are talking about is one I read. At the time I had not convinced my husband that training was worth his time so I was trying to ignore what I read. :-) He was quite addicted to Immitrex and caffeine. I did get him off of both of those so the migraines have become more manageable. At this time I am working on his anxiety as it causes him daily problems. I've read many times where Pete encourages sticking to one protocol at a time. What are your thoughts on adding this protocol to his training or waiting until I am further along with his anxiety work. His Alpha is not high in his frontal regions but I do not remember if this was the case in the back of the head.

-Nita

From: Glacier Biofeedback <voyagercyberport (DOT) net>Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questionsTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comDate: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d suggest that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and make it a less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s using his diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower automatically if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be able to breathe so that if you watch his chest, you don’t see any movement.

All the movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s real skinny, he may not be able to get all the movement out of his chest, but it’s something to shoot for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s probably trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of anitafainSent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:55 AMTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comSubject: breathing, HRV questions

I am using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues, confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't count with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a

metronome in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this. Any thoughtsNita FainHome Trainer

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Posted
Posted

Nita,  that depends. 

I do multiple protocols at one time but I am just starting and I

am not the one to give advise against what Pete would say.

Maybe the woman who gave me the advice in the first place will

chime in here.  She may know if adding this protocol  would be advisable.

I am working with anxiety and getting marvelous results.    I

started with P4 alpha up in back because I did not have much alpha.  I now do

the alpha up in back with the 2c windowed squash t3, t4 open 6-15.  Both were based

on the TLC.

I am a new woman. 

Connie

From:

braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf

Of Anita Fain

Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:20 PM

To: braintrainer

Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questions

Thanks Connie. I have read some things like that and I'm sure the

message you are talking about is one I read. At the time I had not

convinced my husband that training was worth his time so I was trying to

ignore what I read. :-) He was quite addicted to Immitrex and

caffeine. I did get him off of both of those so the migraines have

become more manageable. At this time I am working on his anxiety as it

causes him daily problems. I've read many times where Pete encourages

sticking to one protocol at a time. What are your thoughts on adding

this protocol to his training or waiting until I am further along with his

anxiety work. His Alpha is not high in his frontal regions but I do not

remember if this was the case in the back of the head.

-Nita

From: Glacier Biofeedback <voyagercyberport (DOT) net>

Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questions

To: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com

Date: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is

the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are

always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are

right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s

getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d

suggest that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and

make it a less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s

using his diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower

automatically if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4

counts, hold 4 counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be

able to breathe so that if you watch his chest, you don’t see any

movement. All the movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s

real skinny, he may not be able to get all the movement out of his chest,

but it’s something to shoot for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s

probably trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:

braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of anitafain

Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:55 AM

To: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com

Subject: breathing, HRV questions

I am using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with

anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues,

confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is

responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help

improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with

good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He

is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart

rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's

like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like

this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he

begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very

well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell

him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't count

with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a metronome

in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have

stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very

lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved

while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the

high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this.

Any thoughts

Nita Fain

Home Trainer

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a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

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Posted
Posted

Nita,  that depends. 

I do multiple protocols at one time but I am just starting and I

am not the one to give advise against what Pete would say.

Maybe the woman who gave me the advice in the first place will

chime in here.  She may know if adding this protocol  would be advisable.

I am working with anxiety and getting marvelous results.    I

started with P4 alpha up in back because I did not have much alpha.  I now do

the alpha up in back with the 2c windowed squash t3, t4 open 6-15.  Both were based

on the TLC.

I am a new woman. 

Connie

From:

braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf

Of Anita Fain

Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:20 PM

To: braintrainer

Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questions

Thanks Connie. I have read some things like that and I'm sure the

message you are talking about is one I read. At the time I had not

convinced my husband that training was worth his time so I was trying to

ignore what I read. :-) He was quite addicted to Immitrex and

caffeine. I did get him off of both of those so the migraines have

become more manageable. At this time I am working on his anxiety as it

causes him daily problems. I've read many times where Pete encourages

sticking to one protocol at a time. What are your thoughts on adding

this protocol to his training or waiting until I am further along with his

anxiety work. His Alpha is not high in his frontal regions but I do not

remember if this was the case in the back of the head.

-Nita

From: Glacier Biofeedback <voyagercyberport (DOT) net>

Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questions

To: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com

Date: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is

the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are

always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are

right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s

getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d

suggest that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and

make it a less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s

using his diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower

automatically if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4

counts, hold 4 counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be

able to breathe so that if you watch his chest, you don’t see any

movement. All the movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s

real skinny, he may not be able to get all the movement out of his chest,

but it’s something to shoot for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s

probably trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:

braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of anitafain

Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:55 AM

To: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com

Subject: breathing, HRV questions

I am using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with

anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues,

confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is

responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help

improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with

good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He

is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart

rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's

like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like

this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he

begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very

well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell

him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't count

with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a metronome

in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have

stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very

lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved

while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the

high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this.

Any thoughts

Nita Fain

Home Trainer

Be

a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!

Mobile. Try

it now.

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Posted
Posted

Nita,  that depends. 

I do multiple protocols at one time but I am just starting and I

am not the one to give advise against what Pete would say.

Maybe the woman who gave me the advice in the first place will

chime in here.  She may know if adding this protocol  would be advisable.

I am working with anxiety and getting marvelous results.    I

started with P4 alpha up in back because I did not have much alpha.  I now do

the alpha up in back with the 2c windowed squash t3, t4 open 6-15.  Both were based

on the TLC.

I am a new woman. 

Connie

From:

braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf

Of Anita Fain

Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:20 PM

To: braintrainer

Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questions

Thanks Connie. I have read some things like that and I'm sure the

message you are talking about is one I read. At the time I had not

convinced my husband that training was worth his time so I was trying to

ignore what I read. :-) He was quite addicted to Immitrex and

caffeine. I did get him off of both of those so the migraines have

become more manageable. At this time I am working on his anxiety as it

causes him daily problems. I've read many times where Pete encourages

sticking to one protocol at a time. What are your thoughts on adding

this protocol to his training or waiting until I am further along with his

anxiety work. His Alpha is not high in his frontal regions but I do not

remember if this was the case in the back of the head.

-Nita

From: Glacier Biofeedback <voyagercyberport (DOT) net>

Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questions

To: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com

Date: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is

the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are

always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are

right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s

getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d

suggest that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and

make it a less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s

using his diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower

automatically if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4

counts, hold 4 counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be

able to breathe so that if you watch his chest, you don’t see any

movement. All the movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s

real skinny, he may not be able to get all the movement out of his chest,

but it’s something to shoot for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s

probably trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:

braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of anitafain

Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:55 AM

To: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com

Subject: breathing, HRV questions

I am using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with

anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues,

confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is

responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help

improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with

good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He

is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart

rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's

like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like

this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he

begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very

well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell

him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't count

with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a metronome

in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have

stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very

lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved

while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the

high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this.

Any thoughts

Nita Fain

Home Trainer

Be

a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

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Posted
Posted

Connie,

Thanks for the thoughts. I suspect your head is similar to my husbands in this area. :-) Did your TLC assessment not who any symmetry issues? Just curious. As always I'm trying to get the most bang up front so he gets some relief. How often do you train?

-Nita

From: Glacier Biofeedback <voyagercyberport (DOT) net>Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questionsTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comDate: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d suggest that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and make it a less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s using his diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower automatically if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be able to breathe so that if you watch his chest, you don’t see any movement.

All the movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s real skinny, he may not be able to get all the movement out of his chest, but it’s something to shoot for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s probably trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of anitafainSent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:55 AMTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comSubject: breathing, HRV questions

I am using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues, confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't count with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a

metronome in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this. Any thoughtsNita FainHome Trainer

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

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Posted
Posted

Connie,

Thanks for the thoughts. I suspect your head is similar to my husbands in this area. :-) Did your TLC assessment not who any symmetry issues? Just curious. As always I'm trying to get the most bang up front so he gets some relief. How often do you train?

-Nita

From: Glacier Biofeedback <voyagercyberport (DOT) net>Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questionsTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comDate: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d suggest that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and make it a less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s using his diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower automatically if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be able to breathe so that if you watch his chest, you don’t see any movement.

All the movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s real skinny, he may not be able to get all the movement out of his chest, but it’s something to shoot for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s probably trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of anitafainSent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:55 AMTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comSubject: breathing, HRV questions

I am using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues, confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't count with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a

metronome in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this. Any thoughtsNita FainHome Trainer

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

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Posted
Posted

Connie,

Thanks for the thoughts. I suspect your head is similar to my husbands in this area. :-) Did your TLC assessment not who any symmetry issues? Just curious. As always I'm trying to get the most bang up front so he gets some relief. How often do you train?

-Nita

From: Glacier Biofeedback <voyagercyberport (DOT) net>Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questionsTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comDate: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d suggest that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and make it a less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s using his diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower automatically if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be able to breathe so that if you watch his chest, you don’t see any movement.

All the movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s real skinny, he may not be able to get all the movement out of his chest, but it’s something to shoot for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s probably trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of anitafainSent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:55 AMTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comSubject: breathing, HRV questions

I am using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues, confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't count with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a

metronome in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this. Any thoughtsNita FainHome Trainer

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

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Posted
Posted

Well, isn’t that the question of the

year! Of course, theoretically yes. Especially if you’ve doing NF in the

sensory motor strip. If you’re doing prefrontal cortex, that might be a

stretch. If you’re doing NF for calming, yes. If you’re doing it at F7 F8 to

improve memory, maybe not. If the NF is correcting an issue of overarousal, it

should help her to do better on the coherence ratio.

One must not lose sight of the ‘quick

coherence’ training advocated by Doc Childre in his books. Focusing on the

area of the chest over the heart while doing diaphragmatic breathing is really

the effective technique. If the brain is overaroused and focused on something

else, the coherence ratio will suffer. I don’t know if this is clear – let me

know.

Jill

From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf Of Anita Fain

Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:09

PM

To: braintrainer

Subject: RE:

breathing, HRV questions

Thanks

Jill. Yes it did increase a little. I was beginning to wonder if

I was on the right track but last nights work increased my confidence.

Thanks for the encouragement.

Ok, so

that raises a question. One of my other trainers once said she thought

that the neurotherapy helped her do better on her breathing. So if I am

training to decrease her anxiety, high beta and symmetry issues this will

also improve her coherence ratio?.

-Nita

From:

Glacier Biofeedback <voyagercyberport (DOT) net>

Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questions

To: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com

Date: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is

the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are

always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are

right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s

getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d

suggest that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and

make it a less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s

using his diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower

automatically if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4

counts, hold 4 counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be

able to breathe so that if you watch his chest, you don’t see any

movement. All the movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s

real skinny, he may not be able to get all the movement out of his chest,

but it’s something to shoot for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s probably

trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com

[mailto: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On

Behalf Of anitafain

Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008

10:55 AM

To: braintrainer@ yahoogroups.

com

Subject:

breathing, HRV questions

I am

using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with

anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues,

confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is

responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help

improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with

good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He

is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart

rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's

like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like

this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he

begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very

well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell

him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't count

with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a metronome

in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have

stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very

lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved

while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the

high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this.

Any thoughts

Nita Fain

Home Trainer

Be a better

friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try

it now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Well, isn’t that the question of the

year! Of course, theoretically yes. Especially if you’ve doing NF in the

sensory motor strip. If you’re doing prefrontal cortex, that might be a

stretch. If you’re doing NF for calming, yes. If you’re doing it at F7 F8 to

improve memory, maybe not. If the NF is correcting an issue of overarousal, it

should help her to do better on the coherence ratio.

One must not lose sight of the ‘quick

coherence’ training advocated by Doc Childre in his books. Focusing on the

area of the chest over the heart while doing diaphragmatic breathing is really

the effective technique. If the brain is overaroused and focused on something

else, the coherence ratio will suffer. I don’t know if this is clear – let me

know.

Jill

From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf Of Anita Fain

Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:09

PM

To: braintrainer

Subject: RE:

breathing, HRV questions

Thanks

Jill. Yes it did increase a little. I was beginning to wonder if

I was on the right track but last nights work increased my confidence.

Thanks for the encouragement.

Ok, so

that raises a question. One of my other trainers once said she thought

that the neurotherapy helped her do better on her breathing. So if I am

training to decrease her anxiety, high beta and symmetry issues this will

also improve her coherence ratio?.

-Nita

From:

Glacier Biofeedback <voyagercyberport (DOT) net>

Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questions

To: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com

Date: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is

the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are

always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are

right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s

getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d

suggest that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and

make it a less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s

using his diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower

automatically if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4

counts, hold 4 counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be

able to breathe so that if you watch his chest, you don’t see any

movement. All the movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s

real skinny, he may not be able to get all the movement out of his chest,

but it’s something to shoot for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s probably

trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com

[mailto: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On

Behalf Of anitafain

Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008

10:55 AM

To: braintrainer@ yahoogroups.

com

Subject:

breathing, HRV questions

I am

using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with

anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues,

confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is

responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help

improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with

good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He

is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart

rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's

like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like

this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he

begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very

well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell

him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't count

with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a metronome

in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have

stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very

lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved

while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the

high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this.

Any thoughts

Nita Fain

Home Trainer

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Jill,

Yes, I understand what you are saying. You are refering to the through the heart breathing, yes? I have found it difficult to teach some people how to not focus on themselves on their head, while they are training. One kid will nod his head but I can kind of see that he doesn't really get it and so he's going to be polite but nothing is going to change. At this point my husband is still somewhat defiant. It ebbs and flows with the training at this point. If someone knows of maybe a CD or something that would guide him that would be a good idea as we do suffer from a wife trying to help a husband thing. I can see I need to do some more reading in this area.

-Nita

From: Glacier Biofeedback <voyagercyberport (DOT) net>Subject: RE: breathing, HRV questionsTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comDate: Friday, April 18, 2008, 5:36 PM

Hi Anita,

I have also used the Freeze Framer extensively in my practice. It is the musicians who will tell you that they know how to breathe, and they are always surprised when they can’t get high coherence ratios. You are right on with the diaphragm use, but he may be exaggerating the use if he’s getting lightheaded – that’s a symptom of hyperventilation. I’d suggest that he focus on using the diaphragm, but breathe more slowly and make it a less radical movement (be gentle!). That said, if he’s using his diaphragm, his respiratory center will reset his rate to slower automatically if he’s not trying to adhere to a rigid pattern e.g. inhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts, exhale 4 counts, hold 4 counts. He should be able to breathe so that if you

watch his chest, you don’t see any movement. All the movement is in the abdomen. Of course if he’s real skinny, he may not be able to get all the movement out of his chest, but it’s something to shoot for. If anxiety is his pattern, he’s probably trying too hard! Good luck!

Jill

From: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of anitafainSent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:55 AMTo: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comSubject: breathing, HRV questions

I am using FreezeFramer for my husband. He has struggled with anxiety for as long as he can remember. He has sleeping issues, confidence issues... I am using neurofeedback training and he is responding. Along with that I am using the FreezeFramer to help improve his breathing, HRV. I have used this on many people with good success. I have not seen anything like his results however. He is a musician so he feels he has excellent breathing, BTW. His heart rate varies no more than 1 or 2 bpm if I just watch him breath. It's like the picture of a dying worm. None of my other trainers are like this. I was stunned. His bmp is around 59. I have insisted he begin breathing from his diaphram which he does know how to do very well. I have insisted he count and 2 counts is not enough I tell him. He is now having a bmp change of maybe 5. If I don't

count with him he is back to the dying worm graph. I have set a metronome in with us to use but he will ignore it given a choice. I have stretched his count to something close to normal and he gets very lightheaded and complains of dizziness. However, his HRV is improved while he is doing this. He'll get the medium and occasionally the high tones on the FreezeFramer. I am not sure what to make of this. Any thoughtsNita FainHome Trainer

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

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