Guest guest Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Hi ! I'm afraid that I have not read this particular book and so am not quite sure what defences you are referring to. It sounds like it is a wonderful book though. e Defences Hi, seems really quiet on the boards at the moment. I've finished reading Donna book 'Like Colour To The Blind' and in it she goes on quite a bit about defences. From what I can gather her defences stopped her doing a lot of things and made her, compelled her to do other things and all the time her defences pretended that it was what she really wanted - hope this makes sense. I can understand defences somewhat and reading this book has made me aware of just how many I have got; my defences tell me that they have my best interests at heart and they're to protect me - keep people out and by default me in. Now I am beginning to question my defences. Just wondered if anyone else had defences and how do they manifest? Do they stop you doing things, or compel you to do things and what reasons do they give? FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked " Other FAM Sites. " ________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Hi ! I'm afraid that I have not read this particular book and so am not quite sure what defences you are referring to. It sounds like it is a wonderful book though. e Defences Hi, seems really quiet on the boards at the moment. I've finished reading Donna book 'Like Colour To The Blind' and in it she goes on quite a bit about defences. From what I can gather her defences stopped her doing a lot of things and made her, compelled her to do other things and all the time her defences pretended that it was what she really wanted - hope this makes sense. I can understand defences somewhat and reading this book has made me aware of just how many I have got; my defences tell me that they have my best interests at heart and they're to protect me - keep people out and by default me in. Now I am beginning to question my defences. Just wondered if anyone else had defences and how do they manifest? Do they stop you doing things, or compel you to do things and what reasons do they give? FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked " Other FAM Sites. " ________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Hi ! I'm afraid that I have not read this particular book and so am not quite sure what defences you are referring to. It sounds like it is a wonderful book though. e Defences Hi, seems really quiet on the boards at the moment. I've finished reading Donna book 'Like Colour To The Blind' and in it she goes on quite a bit about defences. From what I can gather her defences stopped her doing a lot of things and made her, compelled her to do other things and all the time her defences pretended that it was what she really wanted - hope this makes sense. I can understand defences somewhat and reading this book has made me aware of just how many I have got; my defences tell me that they have my best interests at heart and they're to protect me - keep people out and by default me in. Now I am beginning to question my defences. Just wondered if anyone else had defences and how do they manifest? Do they stop you doing things, or compel you to do things and what reasons do they give? FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked " Other FAM Sites. " ________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Sure I have defenses. You raise a complex issue. My father, who I now see was an Aspie, hid behind his defenses and minimized interaction with the world. He also considered himself a failure, and was ashamed of that. I tried to become the anti-father and do a great many things. I accomplished a fair amount academically, in science, and in business to a degree. I had three relationships, two of them pretty long term. But I don't know if this was the right path for me. I think I've ended up somewhat embittered by a history of things working out in the short term and then falling apart. I still hold resentment against many of the people who either didn't understand me or acted against my interests. Now I need to find ways to forgive them and myself. If I had it to do all over again, I'd seek more balance and respect my defenses more. I would try to use my intuition to tell me when to when to venture out or stay back. Ken > > Hi, > > seems really quiet on the boards at the moment. > > I've finished reading Donna book 'Like Colour To The Blind' > and in it she goes on quite a bit about defences. From what I can > gather her defences stopped her doing a lot of things and made her, > compelled her to do other things and all the time her defences > pretended that it was what she really wanted - hope this makes sense. > > I can understand defences somewhat and reading this book has made me > aware of just how many I have got; my defences tell me that they have > my best interests at heart and they're to protect me - keep people > out > and by default me in. Now I am beginning to question my defences. > > Just wondered if anyone else had defences and how do they manifest? > Do > they stop you doing things, or compel you to do things and what > reasons > do they give? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Sure I have defenses. You raise a complex issue. My father, who I now see was an Aspie, hid behind his defenses and minimized interaction with the world. He also considered himself a failure, and was ashamed of that. I tried to become the anti-father and do a great many things. I accomplished a fair amount academically, in science, and in business to a degree. I had three relationships, two of them pretty long term. But I don't know if this was the right path for me. I think I've ended up somewhat embittered by a history of things working out in the short term and then falling apart. I still hold resentment against many of the people who either didn't understand me or acted against my interests. Now I need to find ways to forgive them and myself. If I had it to do all over again, I'd seek more balance and respect my defenses more. I would try to use my intuition to tell me when to when to venture out or stay back. Ken > > Hi, > > seems really quiet on the boards at the moment. > > I've finished reading Donna book 'Like Colour To The Blind' > and in it she goes on quite a bit about defences. From what I can > gather her defences stopped her doing a lot of things and made her, > compelled her to do other things and all the time her defences > pretended that it was what she really wanted - hope this makes sense. > > I can understand defences somewhat and reading this book has made me > aware of just how many I have got; my defences tell me that they have > my best interests at heart and they're to protect me - keep people > out > and by default me in. Now I am beginning to question my defences. > > Just wondered if anyone else had defences and how do they manifest? > Do > they stop you doing things, or compel you to do things and what > reasons > do they give? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 , I haven't read the book either. The only thing I can say is that defenses are a natural thing given to all animals and because people have been given them, it must be natural to have them. How they ought to be use is the quandry. Like any capability, I should think it ought to be used in moderation, and the for the purposes which it was designed for. If an animal attacks, you might defend youself. If someone shouts at you, you might shout back, etc. Putting yourself behind a wall is also acceptable sometimes when you feel attacked by life or various aspects of it. But when an attack becomes backhanded, or something akin to passive resistentce, or a veiled attack, or hateful or spiteful, etc., then a line has probably been crossed somewhere and one needs to think about what one is doing when defending onesself. In my opinion, a defense ought to be there to fend off an attack, but neither a shield to hide behind to launch attacks, or a wall to hide behind to forever retreat from the world. 1) When getting hit with an argument, I defend myself with logic. 2) When getting hit with verbal abuse I defend myself by leaving the room. 3) When getting hit physically, I defend myself by fighting back and then running. Fortunately, I have not had to do number three since my sophomore or junior year in high school. Tom > Hi, seems really quiet on the boards at the moment. I've finished reading Donna book 'Like Colour To The Blind' and in it she goes on quite a bit about defences. From what I can gather her defences stopped her doing a lot of things and made her, compelled her to do other things and all the time her defences pretended that it was what she really wanted - hope this makes sense. I can understand defences somewhat and reading this book has made me aware of just how many I have got; my defences tell me that they have my best interests at heart and they're to protect me - keep people out and by default me in. Now I am beginning to question my defences. Just wondered if anyone else had defences and how do they manifest? Do they stop you doing things, or compel you to do things and what reasons do they give? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 Ken, you put into words just what I wanted to say. Sometimes our defences are there for good reason. I too have beaten myself up about mine and spent almost half my life trying to force myself to be more active and outgoing than I really am inside. It first started when I read some pop-psychology stuff in magazines as a teen in which it was made clear that being shy, sensitive and introvert was not as good as being outgoing and active. Another thing that really screwed it up for me even in my 30's, was a line in Shakti Gawain's book Creative Visualisation. She said that our true intuition will always lead us to expand and move outwards. Unfortunately, I believed that she knew what she was talking about and consequently ignored MY intuition which told me to withdraw and pay more attention to my inner self (with a health- and mental breakdown as a result of trusting others' advice more than my own feeling). I now realize that her " truth " may well be true for innately extrovert people like herself, but not necessarily for introverts like me. And I now know that it's perfectly fine to be introverted & sensitive, and see no reason to not be kind to myself and let me be as I am. Inger > Sure I have defenses. You raise a complex issue. My father, who I now see was an Aspie, hid behind his defenses and minimized interaction with the world. He also considered himself a failure, and was ashamed of that. > I tried to become the anti-father and do a great many things. I accomplished a fair amount academically, in science, and in business to a degree. I had three relationships, two of them pretty long term. > But I don't know if this was the right path for me. I think I've ended up somewhat embittered by a history of things working out in the short term and then falling apart. I still hold resentment against many of the people who either didn't understand me or acted against my interests. Now I need to find ways to forgive them and myself. If I had it to do all over again, I'd seek more balance and respect my defenses more. I would try to use my intuition to tell me when to when to venture out or stay back. Ken > > Hi, > > seems really quiet on the boards at the moment. > > I've finished reading Donna book 'Like Colour To The Blind' > and in it she goes on quite a bit about defences. From what I can > gather her defences stopped her doing a lot of things and made her, > compelled her to do other things and all the time her defences > pretended that it was what she really wanted - hope this makes sense. > > I can understand defences somewhat and reading this book has made me > aware of just how many I have got; my defences tell me that they have > my best interests at heart and they're to protect me - keep people > out > and by default me in. Now I am beginning to question my defences. > > Just wondered if anyone else had defences and how do they manifest? > Do > they stop you doing things, or compel you to do things and what > reasons > do they give? > > FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked " Other FAM Sites. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Ruth, many Aspies seem to have arrived into this world without any defences whatsoever. Almost as if we came from some friendlier time, dimension or planet where none was needed. :-) Eventually, most of us are brutally woken up to the fact that here in this time and place, you really do need them! :-( Then we may become what www.bullyonline.com calls hypervigilant instead, and start suspecting attacks even in things that are truly not meant to be. This is an environmentally induced damage to our original trust and innocense. That many of us suck at figuring out when it is appropriate to be defensive or not (because we've been so screwed with in our lives), I think is more indicative of the low level of tolerance, understanding & compassion of others, than of any fault in us. Though we still need to practice fine-tuning our sensors so as to be able to tell a true friend from someone who can't be trusted to have our best interest at heart. This can take half a life-time or more to learn. Let's have patience and compassion with ourselves for being slow learners in this regard. Inger > I like how you explain the defenses Tom. I did not read the book either so I am not sure what her point was. But I was skimming these posts I was also recently told I seem "less defensive" by someone and I thought that was a very interesting comment and still am not exactly sure what she means. I am somewhat aware of it and because of that was able to agree to a small degree. Knowing this though makes me want to ponder this even more and i will so thanks for bringing it up. What I am trying to say is that before I was given the accurate diagnosis of AS I was also given (not easily either) the diagnosis of post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and that was interesting and made some sense. for myself I realize that I am "defensive" at times I do not need to be and that I am not when I should be. I realize that many of the natural defenses we have and physical reactions I have to defend myself have not alwys worked in the way they seem they should. Is it something like this? Ruthenvironmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: ,I haven't read the book either. The only thing I can say is that defenses are a natural thing given to all animals and because people have been given them, it must be natural to have them.How they ought to be use is the quandry. Like any capability, I should think it ought to be used in moderation, and the for the purposes which it was designed for. If an animal attacks, you might defend youself. If someone shouts at you, you might shout back, etc.Putting yourself behind a wall is also acceptable sometimes when you feel attacked by life or various aspects of it.But when an attack becomes backhanded, or something akin to passive resistentce, or a veiled attack, or hateful or spiteful, etc., then a line has probably been crossed somewhere and one needs to think about what one is doing when defending onesself. In my opinion, a defense ought to be there to fend off an attack, but neither a shield to hide behind to launch attacks, or a wall to hide behind to forever retreat from the world.1) When getting hit with an argument, I defend myself with logic.2) When getting hit with verbal abuse I defend myself by leaving the room.3) When getting hit physically, I defend myself by fighting back and then running.Fortunately, I have not had to do number three since my sophomore or junior year in high school.Tom> Hi,seems really quiet on the boards at the moment.I've finished reading Donna book 'Like Colour To The Blind'and in it she goes on quite a bit about defences. From what I cangather her defences stopped her doing a lot of things and made her,compelled her to do other things and all the time her defencespretended that it was what she really wanted - hope this makes sense.I can understand defences somewhat and reading this book has made meaware of just how many I have got; my defences tell me that they havemy best interests at heart and they're to protect me - keep peopleout and by default me in. Now I am beginning to question my defences.Just wondered if anyone else had defences and how do they manifest?Do they stop you doing things, or compel you to do things and whatreasons do they give?FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked "Other FAM Sites." Yahoo! MessengerShow us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun. FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked "Other FAM Sites." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Ruth, many Aspies seem to have arrived into this world without any defences whatsoever. Almost as if we came from some friendlier time, dimension or planet where none was needed. :-) Eventually, most of us are brutally woken up to the fact that here in this time and place, you really do need them! :-( Then we may become what www.bullyonline.com calls hypervigilant instead, and start suspecting attacks even in things that are truly not meant to be. This is an environmentally induced damage to our original trust and innocense. That many of us suck at figuring out when it is appropriate to be defensive or not (because we've been so screwed with in our lives), I think is more indicative of the low level of tolerance, understanding & compassion of others, than of any fault in us. Though we still need to practice fine-tuning our sensors so as to be able to tell a true friend from someone who can't be trusted to have our best interest at heart. This can take half a life-time or more to learn. Let's have patience and compassion with ourselves for being slow learners in this regard. Inger > I like how you explain the defenses Tom. I did not read the book either so I am not sure what her point was. But I was skimming these posts I was also recently told I seem "less defensive" by someone and I thought that was a very interesting comment and still am not exactly sure what she means. I am somewhat aware of it and because of that was able to agree to a small degree. Knowing this though makes me want to ponder this even more and i will so thanks for bringing it up. What I am trying to say is that before I was given the accurate diagnosis of AS I was also given (not easily either) the diagnosis of post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and that was interesting and made some sense. for myself I realize that I am "defensive" at times I do not need to be and that I am not when I should be. I realize that many of the natural defenses we have and physical reactions I have to defend myself have not alwys worked in the way they seem they should. Is it something like this? Ruthenvironmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: ,I haven't read the book either. The only thing I can say is that defenses are a natural thing given to all animals and because people have been given them, it must be natural to have them.How they ought to be use is the quandry. Like any capability, I should think it ought to be used in moderation, and the for the purposes which it was designed for. If an animal attacks, you might defend youself. If someone shouts at you, you might shout back, etc.Putting yourself behind a wall is also acceptable sometimes when you feel attacked by life or various aspects of it.But when an attack becomes backhanded, or something akin to passive resistentce, or a veiled attack, or hateful or spiteful, etc., then a line has probably been crossed somewhere and one needs to think about what one is doing when defending onesself. In my opinion, a defense ought to be there to fend off an attack, but neither a shield to hide behind to launch attacks, or a wall to hide behind to forever retreat from the world.1) When getting hit with an argument, I defend myself with logic.2) When getting hit with verbal abuse I defend myself by leaving the room.3) When getting hit physically, I defend myself by fighting back and then running.Fortunately, I have not had to do number three since my sophomore or junior year in high school.Tom> Hi,seems really quiet on the boards at the moment.I've finished reading Donna book 'Like Colour To The Blind'and in it she goes on quite a bit about defences. From what I cangather her defences stopped her doing a lot of things and made her,compelled her to do other things and all the time her defencespretended that it was what she really wanted - hope this makes sense.I can understand defences somewhat and reading this book has made meaware of just how many I have got; my defences tell me that they havemy best interests at heart and they're to protect me - keep peopleout and by default me in. Now I am beginning to question my defences.Just wondered if anyone else had defences and how do they manifest?Do they stop you doing things, or compel you to do things and whatreasons do they give?FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked "Other FAM Sites." Yahoo! MessengerShow us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun. FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in the folder marked "Other FAM Sites." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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