Guest guest Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 It is on this planet, dear. ;-) The systems set up by the power elite are there to protect their vested interests. If you want to play their game, you have to play it their way, or find yourself with more obstacles than most Aspies find worth the bother. Inger > Inger, > I do not think it is unrealistic. > RuthInger Lorelei wrote: Stan, thanks for this info.Now, if someone was really smart - and rich - they could find Aspies from all over the world, not focus overly on their official credentials, just on their great ideas, and offer the help to produce, patent and market these ideas and then share the profits. It could actually be like an Aspie co-op where the inventors were also shareholders. Wouldn't that be cool?Inger - dreaming up more unrealistic ideas as usual... *sigh* Re: Re: Aspie inventiveness?> > At that point, I can publish it, and hope that people use it on> > their own.>> If they do, do they have to pay you if you have the patent?If I patent it and they use the system as defined by the patent.Sometimes that's straightforward, meaning the idea and thepatented system or method are the same. There are some caseswhere the basic idea (e.g., a mathematical formula or sometechniques) are either unpatentable or the patent cannot beenforced.> > Most people have the hurdle of convincing a business that> one has the technical credibility to have any idea accepted.>> That's very difficult, isn't it?Yes.> > Simultaneously, in many cases the business wants patent> protection.>> What do you do if you have a really great and revolutionary idea ...> How would you go about selling the idea without someone snatching> it?That's what the patent is for. The idea is to get someone toproduce it, either under license or not. The problem is thatthe patent is costly, and it's very difficult to get someone toproduce it.The way to go about it is to obtain patent protection and havethe product produced. If it is marginally successful, thenperhaps someone in the business may expect to make a profit andwish to produce it.> Would you have to be able to construct a> prototype and exact recipe respectively in order to sell it, or> could you just sell the idea itself and get sort of a royalty on> it or something?The difficult part is to sell the idea. Business don't buyideas from the outside. So you'd have to get it produced anddemonstrate its marketability.> > Probably not an issue for most products as conceived by the> inventor. The inventor usually considers the particular idea> worth the environmental cost.>> I guess I'm atypical, then. :-)I guess I could conceive of some products that would bewasteful, but I don't think I'd be interested in develop them.> That's the problem. I sometimes get ideas for products that I> wouldn't want myself. Or if I do, no one else does. :-(More likely, you're talking about the disconnect betweenengineering and marketing. What seems like a good idea from theengineering standpoint is often not marketable. (Sounds likethe AS/NT thing.)- sFAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.Don't forget, all female members of FAM Secret Society may join FAM Ladies' Lodge http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMLadiesLodge/ and all males from Secret Society may join FAM Gentlemen's Guild http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMGentlemensGuild/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 It is on this planet, dear. ;-) The systems set up by the power elite are there to protect their vested interests. If you want to play their game, you have to play it their way, or find yourself with more obstacles than most Aspies find worth the bother. Inger > Inger, > I do not think it is unrealistic. > RuthInger Lorelei wrote: Stan, thanks for this info.Now, if someone was really smart - and rich - they could find Aspies from all over the world, not focus overly on their official credentials, just on their great ideas, and offer the help to produce, patent and market these ideas and then share the profits. It could actually be like an Aspie co-op where the inventors were also shareholders. Wouldn't that be cool?Inger - dreaming up more unrealistic ideas as usual... *sigh* Re: Re: Aspie inventiveness?> > At that point, I can publish it, and hope that people use it on> > their own.>> If they do, do they have to pay you if you have the patent?If I patent it and they use the system as defined by the patent.Sometimes that's straightforward, meaning the idea and thepatented system or method are the same. There are some caseswhere the basic idea (e.g., a mathematical formula or sometechniques) are either unpatentable or the patent cannot beenforced.> > Most people have the hurdle of convincing a business that> one has the technical credibility to have any idea accepted.>> That's very difficult, isn't it?Yes.> > Simultaneously, in many cases the business wants patent> protection.>> What do you do if you have a really great and revolutionary idea ...> How would you go about selling the idea without someone snatching> it?That's what the patent is for. The idea is to get someone toproduce it, either under license or not. The problem is thatthe patent is costly, and it's very difficult to get someone toproduce it.The way to go about it is to obtain patent protection and havethe product produced. If it is marginally successful, thenperhaps someone in the business may expect to make a profit andwish to produce it.> Would you have to be able to construct a> prototype and exact recipe respectively in order to sell it, or> could you just sell the idea itself and get sort of a royalty on> it or something?The difficult part is to sell the idea. Business don't buyideas from the outside. So you'd have to get it produced anddemonstrate its marketability.> > Probably not an issue for most products as conceived by the> inventor. The inventor usually considers the particular idea> worth the environmental cost.>> I guess I'm atypical, then. :-)I guess I could conceive of some products that would bewasteful, but I don't think I'd be interested in develop them.> That's the problem. I sometimes get ideas for products that I> wouldn't want myself. Or if I do, no one else does. :-(More likely, you're talking about the disconnect betweenengineering and marketing. What seems like a good idea from theengineering standpoint is often not marketable. (Sounds likethe AS/NT thing.)- sFAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.Don't forget, all female members of FAM Secret Society may join FAM Ladies' Lodge http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMLadiesLodge/ and all males from Secret Society may join FAM Gentlemen's Guild http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMGentlemensGuild/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 It is on this planet, dear. ;-) The systems set up by the power elite are there to protect their vested interests. If you want to play their game, you have to play it their way, or find yourself with more obstacles than most Aspies find worth the bother. Inger > Inger, > I do not think it is unrealistic. > RuthInger Lorelei wrote: Stan, thanks for this info.Now, if someone was really smart - and rich - they could find Aspies from all over the world, not focus overly on their official credentials, just on their great ideas, and offer the help to produce, patent and market these ideas and then share the profits. It could actually be like an Aspie co-op where the inventors were also shareholders. Wouldn't that be cool?Inger - dreaming up more unrealistic ideas as usual... *sigh* Re: Re: Aspie inventiveness?> > At that point, I can publish it, and hope that people use it on> > their own.>> If they do, do they have to pay you if you have the patent?If I patent it and they use the system as defined by the patent.Sometimes that's straightforward, meaning the idea and thepatented system or method are the same. There are some caseswhere the basic idea (e.g., a mathematical formula or sometechniques) are either unpatentable or the patent cannot beenforced.> > Most people have the hurdle of convincing a business that> one has the technical credibility to have any idea accepted.>> That's very difficult, isn't it?Yes.> > Simultaneously, in many cases the business wants patent> protection.>> What do you do if you have a really great and revolutionary idea ...> How would you go about selling the idea without someone snatching> it?That's what the patent is for. The idea is to get someone toproduce it, either under license or not. The problem is thatthe patent is costly, and it's very difficult to get someone toproduce it.The way to go about it is to obtain patent protection and havethe product produced. If it is marginally successful, thenperhaps someone in the business may expect to make a profit andwish to produce it.> Would you have to be able to construct a> prototype and exact recipe respectively in order to sell it, or> could you just sell the idea itself and get sort of a royalty on> it or something?The difficult part is to sell the idea. Business don't buyideas from the outside. So you'd have to get it produced anddemonstrate its marketability.> > Probably not an issue for most products as conceived by the> inventor. The inventor usually considers the particular idea> worth the environmental cost.>> I guess I'm atypical, then. :-)I guess I could conceive of some products that would bewasteful, but I don't think I'd be interested in develop them.> That's the problem. I sometimes get ideas for products that I> wouldn't want myself. Or if I do, no one else does. :-(More likely, you're talking about the disconnect betweenengineering and marketing. What seems like a good idea from theengineering standpoint is often not marketable. (Sounds likethe AS/NT thing.)- sFAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.Don't forget, all female members of FAM Secret Society may join FAM Ladies' Lodge http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMLadiesLodge/ and all males from Secret Society may join FAM Gentlemen's Guild http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMGentlemensGuild/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Inger wrote: > Now, if someone was really smart - and rich - they could find > Aspies from all over the world, not focus overly on their > official credentials, just on their great ideas, and offer > the help to produce, patent and market these ideas and > then share the profits. It could actually be like > an Aspie co-op where the inventors were also > [be] shareholders. Wouldn't that be cool? Definitely cool, but does not address the basic issues of how to produce and market the ideas. Significantly, the hard part is the engineering and development. So for the most part, businesses specialise in particular industrial niches. A semiconductor company will focus on a particular type of IC circuit, such a processors and SRAMs (Intel), signal processing (Cirrus Logic), or circuit arrays such as memory (Micron). There are models for what you suggest. Edison and others developed an array of new ideas. Energy Conversion Devices/Ovonics founded by Stan Ovshinsky, Sarnoff Labs (RCA Sarnoff Labs) and a few other companies are in the new technology development business. Most or all of these companies focus on the credentials because the substance of development is taking the idea from the raw idea stage to a functional prototype which can be sold to industry. So an " idea " company which simply generates ideas would not be able to develop enough viable products to sustain itself. That leaves consulting firms and think tanks. But these definitely base their credibility on the credentials of their employees. - s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Inger wrote: > Now, if someone was really smart - and rich - they could find > Aspies from all over the world, not focus overly on their > official credentials, just on their great ideas, and offer > the help to produce, patent and market these ideas and > then share the profits. It could actually be like > an Aspie co-op where the inventors were also > [be] shareholders. Wouldn't that be cool? Definitely cool, but does not address the basic issues of how to produce and market the ideas. Significantly, the hard part is the engineering and development. So for the most part, businesses specialise in particular industrial niches. A semiconductor company will focus on a particular type of IC circuit, such a processors and SRAMs (Intel), signal processing (Cirrus Logic), or circuit arrays such as memory (Micron). There are models for what you suggest. Edison and others developed an array of new ideas. Energy Conversion Devices/Ovonics founded by Stan Ovshinsky, Sarnoff Labs (RCA Sarnoff Labs) and a few other companies are in the new technology development business. Most or all of these companies focus on the credentials because the substance of development is taking the idea from the raw idea stage to a functional prototype which can be sold to industry. So an " idea " company which simply generates ideas would not be able to develop enough viable products to sustain itself. That leaves consulting firms and think tanks. But these definitely base their credibility on the credentials of their employees. - s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 <boring text warning> Inger wrote: > What do you do if you have a really great and revolutionary > idea, say something that could replace the keyboard for your > computer, or a new soft drink taste that no one has ever > thought of before. How would you go about selling the idea > without someone snatching it? And to whom? Would you have > to be able to construct a prototype and exact recipe > respectively in order to sell it, or could you just sell > the idea itself and get sort of a royalty on it or something? There are actually a few questions here. 1) how to get the idea recognized; 2) how to sell the idea to industry; 3) how to protect the idea. 1) Getting the idea recognized is the biggie. If your name isn't Microsoft or Nestle SA, you don't have the marketing clout to introduce an idea and have it accepted. Actually, Microsoft and Nestle SA don't either -- they have large marketing departments. And sometimes these marketing departments don't get it right. There are a numerous examples of businesses who used marketing studies to put themselves out of business. Also, just because you see the thing as a good idea doesn't mean others will. Either it isn't an issue for the population as a whole, the average user doesn't appreciate the inventive function, or the average person doesn't care. Elaborating.. not an issue for the population as a whole - monitor flicker http://www.scn.org/help/monitor.html - when I wrote it, I had no idea most people weren't affected by this and didn't even know about AS. average user doesn't appreciate the inventive function - an aircraft mechanic friend patented a good pocket screwdriver, but people who aren't aircraft mechanics would not appreciate the tool's advantage without explanation. average person doesn't care - Inger mentioned a soft drink. It's not hard to conceive of a good soft drink formula. The problem is that the general interest would either be low or the manufacture and distribution costs would be too high. 2) Selling the idea to industry takes either a proven market, proven business, or recognition of the inventor as an industry " expert " consultant. The proven market means that essentially you must have the product or idea in use. Even though unprofitable, if you can show sales or the equivalent, a business can analyze this. 3) Protecting the idea depends on the nature of the idea. This can be a patent to the invention, to a key feature of the invention, or a different form of intellectual property protection (e.g, copyright for a work of art). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 <boring text warning> Inger wrote: > What do you do if you have a really great and revolutionary > idea, say something that could replace the keyboard for your > computer, or a new soft drink taste that no one has ever > thought of before. How would you go about selling the idea > without someone snatching it? And to whom? Would you have > to be able to construct a prototype and exact recipe > respectively in order to sell it, or could you just sell > the idea itself and get sort of a royalty on it or something? There are actually a few questions here. 1) how to get the idea recognized; 2) how to sell the idea to industry; 3) how to protect the idea. 1) Getting the idea recognized is the biggie. If your name isn't Microsoft or Nestle SA, you don't have the marketing clout to introduce an idea and have it accepted. Actually, Microsoft and Nestle SA don't either -- they have large marketing departments. And sometimes these marketing departments don't get it right. There are a numerous examples of businesses who used marketing studies to put themselves out of business. Also, just because you see the thing as a good idea doesn't mean others will. Either it isn't an issue for the population as a whole, the average user doesn't appreciate the inventive function, or the average person doesn't care. Elaborating.. not an issue for the population as a whole - monitor flicker http://www.scn.org/help/monitor.html - when I wrote it, I had no idea most people weren't affected by this and didn't even know about AS. average user doesn't appreciate the inventive function - an aircraft mechanic friend patented a good pocket screwdriver, but people who aren't aircraft mechanics would not appreciate the tool's advantage without explanation. average person doesn't care - Inger mentioned a soft drink. It's not hard to conceive of a good soft drink formula. The problem is that the general interest would either be low or the manufacture and distribution costs would be too high. 2) Selling the idea to industry takes either a proven market, proven business, or recognition of the inventor as an industry " expert " consultant. The proven market means that essentially you must have the product or idea in use. Even though unprofitable, if you can show sales or the equivalent, a business can analyze this. 3) Protecting the idea depends on the nature of the idea. This can be a patent to the invention, to a key feature of the invention, or a different form of intellectual property protection (e.g, copyright for a work of art). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 <boring text warning> Inger wrote: > What do you do if you have a really great and revolutionary > idea, say something that could replace the keyboard for your > computer, or a new soft drink taste that no one has ever > thought of before. How would you go about selling the idea > without someone snatching it? And to whom? Would you have > to be able to construct a prototype and exact recipe > respectively in order to sell it, or could you just sell > the idea itself and get sort of a royalty on it or something? There are actually a few questions here. 1) how to get the idea recognized; 2) how to sell the idea to industry; 3) how to protect the idea. 1) Getting the idea recognized is the biggie. If your name isn't Microsoft or Nestle SA, you don't have the marketing clout to introduce an idea and have it accepted. Actually, Microsoft and Nestle SA don't either -- they have large marketing departments. And sometimes these marketing departments don't get it right. There are a numerous examples of businesses who used marketing studies to put themselves out of business. Also, just because you see the thing as a good idea doesn't mean others will. Either it isn't an issue for the population as a whole, the average user doesn't appreciate the inventive function, or the average person doesn't care. Elaborating.. not an issue for the population as a whole - monitor flicker http://www.scn.org/help/monitor.html - when I wrote it, I had no idea most people weren't affected by this and didn't even know about AS. average user doesn't appreciate the inventive function - an aircraft mechanic friend patented a good pocket screwdriver, but people who aren't aircraft mechanics would not appreciate the tool's advantage without explanation. average person doesn't care - Inger mentioned a soft drink. It's not hard to conceive of a good soft drink formula. The problem is that the general interest would either be low or the manufacture and distribution costs would be too high. 2) Selling the idea to industry takes either a proven market, proven business, or recognition of the inventor as an industry " expert " consultant. The proven market means that essentially you must have the product or idea in use. Even though unprofitable, if you can show sales or the equivalent, a business can analyze this. 3) Protecting the idea depends on the nature of the idea. This can be a patent to the invention, to a key feature of the invention, or a different form of intellectual property protection (e.g, copyright for a work of art). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Sigh. Just as I suspected then. The good news though, is that there ARE a lot of Aspies out there who do have the necessary credentials and are employed as engineers etc. Yourself included, I assume. Inger Re: Aspie inventiveness? Inger wrote:> Now, if someone was really smart - and rich - they could find> Aspies from all over the world, not focus overly on their> official credentials, just on their great ideas, and offer> the help to produce, patent and market these ideas and> then share the profits. It could actually be like> an Aspie co-op where the inventors were also> [be] shareholders. Wouldn't that be cool?Definitely cool, but does not address the basic issues of how to produce and market the ideas.Significantly, the hard part is the engineering and development. So for the most part, businesses specialise in particular industrial niches. A semiconductor company will focus on a particular type of IC circuit, such a processors and SRAMs (Intel), signal processing (Cirrus Logic), or circuit arrays such as memory (Micron).There are models for what you suggest. Edison and others developed an array of new ideas. Energy Conversion Devices/Ovonics founded by Stan Ovshinsky, Sarnoff Labs (RCA Sarnoff Labs) and a few other companies are in the new technology development business. Most or all of these companies focus on the credentials because the substance of development is taking the idea from the raw idea stage to a functional prototype which can be sold to industry.So an "idea" company which simply generates ideas would not be able to develop enough viable products to sustain itself.That leaves consulting firms and think tanks. But these definitely base their credibility on the credentials of their employees.- sFAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, all female members of FAM Secret Society may join FAM Ladies' Lodge http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMLadiesLodge/ and all males from Secret Society may join FAM Gentlemen's Guild http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMGentlemensGuild/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Thanks for the info, Stan. That was fascinating reading, not boring at all! So what you recommend is that the two Aspies I had dinner with, who had an ingenious soft drink taste and a very innovative computer idea (he is a computer expert with a proper degree) respectively, should just forget those and not quit their day job? What about a really cool design for an umbrella? Inger <boring text warning>Inger wrote:> What do you do if you have a really great and revolutionary> idea, say something that could replace the keyboard for your> computer, or a new soft drink taste that no one has ever> thought of before. How would you go about selling the idea> without someone snatching it? And to whom? Would you have> to be able to construct a prototype and exact recipe> respectively in order to sell it, or could you just sell> the idea itself and get sort of a royalty on it or something?There are actually a few questions here.1) how to get the idea recognized;2) how to sell the idea to industry;3) how to protect the idea.1)Getting the idea recognized is the biggie. If your name isn't Microsoft or Nestle SA, you don't have the marketing clout to introduce an idea and have it accepted. Actually, Microsoft and Nestle SA don't either -- they have large marketing departments. And sometimes these marketing departments don't get it right. There are a numerous examples of businesses who used marketing studies to put themselves out of business.Also, just because you see the thing as a good idea doesn't mean others will. Either it isn't an issue for the population as a whole, the average user doesn't appreciate the inventive function, or the average person doesn't care.Elaborating..not an issue for the population as a whole - monitor flicker http://www.scn.org/help/monitor.html - when I wrote it, I had no idea most people weren't affected by this and didn't even know about AS.average user doesn't appreciate the inventive function - an aircraft mechanic friend patented a good pocket screwdriver, but people who aren't aircraft mechanics would not appreciate the tool's advantage without explanation.average person doesn't care - Inger mentioned a soft drink. It's not hard to conceive of a good soft drink formula. The problem is that the general interest would either be low or the manufacture and distribution costs would be too high. 2)Selling the idea to industry takes either a proven market, proven business, or recognition of the inventor as an industry "expert" consultant.The proven market means that essentially you must have the product or idea in use. Even though unprofitable, if you can show sales or the equivalent, a business can analyze this.3)Protecting the idea depends on the nature of the idea. This can be a patent to the invention, to a key feature of the invention, or a different form of intellectual property protection (e.g, copyright for a work of art).FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, all female members of FAM Secret Society may join FAM Ladies' Lodge http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMLadiesLodge/ and all males from Secret Society may join FAM Gentlemen's Guild http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMGentlemensGuild/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Thanks for the info, Stan. That was fascinating reading, not boring at all! So what you recommend is that the two Aspies I had dinner with, who had an ingenious soft drink taste and a very innovative computer idea (he is a computer expert with a proper degree) respectively, should just forget those and not quit their day job? What about a really cool design for an umbrella? Inger <boring text warning>Inger wrote:> What do you do if you have a really great and revolutionary> idea, say something that could replace the keyboard for your> computer, or a new soft drink taste that no one has ever> thought of before. How would you go about selling the idea> without someone snatching it? And to whom? Would you have> to be able to construct a prototype and exact recipe> respectively in order to sell it, or could you just sell> the idea itself and get sort of a royalty on it or something?There are actually a few questions here.1) how to get the idea recognized;2) how to sell the idea to industry;3) how to protect the idea.1)Getting the idea recognized is the biggie. If your name isn't Microsoft or Nestle SA, you don't have the marketing clout to introduce an idea and have it accepted. Actually, Microsoft and Nestle SA don't either -- they have large marketing departments. And sometimes these marketing departments don't get it right. There are a numerous examples of businesses who used marketing studies to put themselves out of business.Also, just because you see the thing as a good idea doesn't mean others will. Either it isn't an issue for the population as a whole, the average user doesn't appreciate the inventive function, or the average person doesn't care.Elaborating..not an issue for the population as a whole - monitor flicker http://www.scn.org/help/monitor.html - when I wrote it, I had no idea most people weren't affected by this and didn't even know about AS.average user doesn't appreciate the inventive function - an aircraft mechanic friend patented a good pocket screwdriver, but people who aren't aircraft mechanics would not appreciate the tool's advantage without explanation.average person doesn't care - Inger mentioned a soft drink. It's not hard to conceive of a good soft drink formula. The problem is that the general interest would either be low or the manufacture and distribution costs would be too high. 2)Selling the idea to industry takes either a proven market, proven business, or recognition of the inventor as an industry "expert" consultant.The proven market means that essentially you must have the product or idea in use. Even though unprofitable, if you can show sales or the equivalent, a business can analyze this.3)Protecting the idea depends on the nature of the idea. This can be a patent to the invention, to a key feature of the invention, or a different form of intellectual property protection (e.g, copyright for a work of art).FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, all female members of FAM Secret Society may join FAM Ladies' Lodge http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMLadiesLodge/ and all males from Secret Society may join FAM Gentlemen's Guild http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMGentlemensGuild/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Thanks for the info, Stan. That was fascinating reading, not boring at all! So what you recommend is that the two Aspies I had dinner with, who had an ingenious soft drink taste and a very innovative computer idea (he is a computer expert with a proper degree) respectively, should just forget those and not quit their day job? What about a really cool design for an umbrella? Inger <boring text warning>Inger wrote:> What do you do if you have a really great and revolutionary> idea, say something that could replace the keyboard for your> computer, or a new soft drink taste that no one has ever> thought of before. How would you go about selling the idea> without someone snatching it? And to whom? Would you have> to be able to construct a prototype and exact recipe> respectively in order to sell it, or could you just sell> the idea itself and get sort of a royalty on it or something?There are actually a few questions here.1) how to get the idea recognized;2) how to sell the idea to industry;3) how to protect the idea.1)Getting the idea recognized is the biggie. If your name isn't Microsoft or Nestle SA, you don't have the marketing clout to introduce an idea and have it accepted. Actually, Microsoft and Nestle SA don't either -- they have large marketing departments. And sometimes these marketing departments don't get it right. There are a numerous examples of businesses who used marketing studies to put themselves out of business.Also, just because you see the thing as a good idea doesn't mean others will. Either it isn't an issue for the population as a whole, the average user doesn't appreciate the inventive function, or the average person doesn't care.Elaborating..not an issue for the population as a whole - monitor flicker http://www.scn.org/help/monitor.html - when I wrote it, I had no idea most people weren't affected by this and didn't even know about AS.average user doesn't appreciate the inventive function - an aircraft mechanic friend patented a good pocket screwdriver, but people who aren't aircraft mechanics would not appreciate the tool's advantage without explanation.average person doesn't care - Inger mentioned a soft drink. It's not hard to conceive of a good soft drink formula. The problem is that the general interest would either be low or the manufacture and distribution costs would be too high. 2)Selling the idea to industry takes either a proven market, proven business, or recognition of the inventor as an industry "expert" consultant.The proven market means that essentially you must have the product or idea in use. Even though unprofitable, if you can show sales or the equivalent, a business can analyze this.3)Protecting the idea depends on the nature of the idea. This can be a patent to the invention, to a key feature of the invention, or a different form of intellectual property protection (e.g, copyright for a work of art).FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, all female members of FAM Secret Society may join FAM Ladies' Lodge http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMLadiesLodge/ and all males from Secret Society may join FAM Gentlemen's Guild http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMGentlemensGuild/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 I'm curious about the umbrella - I have a thing for umbrellas :-) > > > What do you do if you have a really great and revolutionary > > idea, say something that could replace the keyboard for your > > computer, or a new soft drink taste that no one has ever > > thought of before. How would you go about selling the idea > > without someone snatching it? And to whom? Would you have > > to be able to construct a prototype and exact recipe > > respectively in order to sell it, or could you just sell > > the idea itself and get sort of a royalty on it or something? > > There are actually a few questions here. > 1) how to get the idea recognized; > 2) how to sell the idea to industry; > 3) how to protect the idea. > > 1) > Getting the idea recognized is the biggie. If your name isn't > Microsoft or Nestle SA, you don't have the marketing clout to > introduce an idea and have it accepted. Actually, Microsoft and > Nestle SA don't either -- they have large marketing departments. > And sometimes these marketing departments don't get it right. > There are a numerous examples of businesses who used marketing > studies to put themselves out of business. > > Also, just because you see the thing as a good idea doesn't mean > others will. Either it isn't an issue for the population as a > whole, the average user doesn't appreciate the inventive > function, or the average person doesn't care. > > Elaborating.. > not an issue for the population as a whole - monitor flicker > http://www.scn.org/help/monitor.html - when I wrote it, I had no > idea most people weren't affected by this and didn't even know > about AS. > > average user doesn't appreciate the inventive function - an > aircraft mechanic friend patented a good pocket screwdriver, but > people who aren't aircraft mechanics would not appreciate the > tool's advantage without explanation. > > average person doesn't care - Inger mentioned a soft drink. > It's not hard to conceive of a good soft drink formula. The > problem is that the general interest would either be low or the > manufacture and distribution costs would be too high. > > 2) > Selling the idea to industry takes either a proven market, > proven business, or recognition of the inventor as an industry > " expert " consultant. > > The proven market means that essentially you must have the > product or idea in use. Even though unprofitable, if you can > show sales or the equivalent, a business can analyze this. > > 3) > Protecting the idea depends on the nature of the idea. This can > be a patent to > the invention, to a key feature of the invention, or a different > form of > intellectual property protection (e.g, copyright for a work of > art). > > > > > FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. > > Don't forget, all female members of FAM Secret Society may join FAM Ladies' Lodge http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMLadiesLodge/ and all males from Secret Society may join FAM Gentlemen's Guild http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMGentlemensGuild/. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 > Thanks... > So what you recommend is that the two Aspies I had dinner with, > who had an ingenious soft drink taste and a very innovative > computer idea (he is a computer expert with a proper degree) > respectively, should just forget those and not quit their day > job? The examples make it easier to explain. The soft drink .. If it can be economically produced, and if the market is there for the idea, then it's possible to do this. One has arrange for the components to be made and the product bottled. This can be done under a confidentiality agreement. If patent protection is an option, that would help, but that's pricey. The best way is to stay under the radar of the large manufacturers. Fortunately, there's an institutionalized bias against certain things, like use of fructose instead of sugar (in the US), use of processes that don't require preservatives, etc. But there's also the difficulty of getting the word out to consumers and getting the product distributed. Case in point -- orange soda can be made without preservatives or sugar, but requires higher cost processes and ingredients. Will people pay the retail cost of this? Alternatively, would people go through the trouble to make it themselves from seltzer (carbonated water) and frozen juice? In countries where orange soda is popular, a similar non-preserved drink is usually already on the market. > a very innovative computer idea Straightforward enough, since most computer devices can be prototyped with new and used computers and computer parts. Patent, produce and sell, or promote a prototype, keeping within the no-disclosure restrictions for patent filing. The problem is again getting the product recognized as valuable. If he's a computer expert, he should have an understanding of the business, at least from an engineer's standpoint. > should just forget those and not quit their day job? no. yes. With a project like that, the only reason to quit the day job is if the project " takes on a life of its own " . If that's the case, there's a good chance of seeing success. Also, it is possible that the employer, upon discussing this, may accept a leave of absence, " long enough to let me prove to myself the idea won't work. " - s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 > Thanks... > So what you recommend is that the two Aspies I had dinner with, > who had an ingenious soft drink taste and a very innovative > computer idea (he is a computer expert with a proper degree) > respectively, should just forget those and not quit their day > job? The examples make it easier to explain. The soft drink .. If it can be economically produced, and if the market is there for the idea, then it's possible to do this. One has arrange for the components to be made and the product bottled. This can be done under a confidentiality agreement. If patent protection is an option, that would help, but that's pricey. The best way is to stay under the radar of the large manufacturers. Fortunately, there's an institutionalized bias against certain things, like use of fructose instead of sugar (in the US), use of processes that don't require preservatives, etc. But there's also the difficulty of getting the word out to consumers and getting the product distributed. Case in point -- orange soda can be made without preservatives or sugar, but requires higher cost processes and ingredients. Will people pay the retail cost of this? Alternatively, would people go through the trouble to make it themselves from seltzer (carbonated water) and frozen juice? In countries where orange soda is popular, a similar non-preserved drink is usually already on the market. > a very innovative computer idea Straightforward enough, since most computer devices can be prototyped with new and used computers and computer parts. Patent, produce and sell, or promote a prototype, keeping within the no-disclosure restrictions for patent filing. The problem is again getting the product recognized as valuable. If he's a computer expert, he should have an understanding of the business, at least from an engineer's standpoint. > should just forget those and not quit their day job? no. yes. With a project like that, the only reason to quit the day job is if the project " takes on a life of its own " . If that's the case, there's a good chance of seeing success. Also, it is possible that the employer, upon discussing this, may accept a leave of absence, " long enough to let me prove to myself the idea won't work. " - s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 > I'm curious about the umbrella - I have a thing for umbrellas :-) We have a popular configuation in the eastern US for " golf " umbrellas, which are constructed of two pieces but look conventional. I have perhaps the first version of one of those, in which the upper panel is mounted on spring bows. When a strong wind hits, the upper panel flips up and acts as an aerodynamic spoiler. " Golf " umbrellas are just large diameter umbrellas, perhaps 140cm. Except my understanding of golf is that one does not use an umbrella while playing golf. I don't know if they're still sold, but Totes made a folding umbrella which would automatically opens when pressing a button. And then automatically _collapses_ when pressing the same button. The center shaft stays extended like a conventional umbrella and must be collapsed manually. Collapsing the center resets the mechanism. _-T-_ | - s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 > I'm curious about the umbrella - I have a thing for umbrellas :-) We have a popular configuation in the eastern US for " golf " umbrellas, which are constructed of two pieces but look conventional. I have perhaps the first version of one of those, in which the upper panel is mounted on spring bows. When a strong wind hits, the upper panel flips up and acts as an aerodynamic spoiler. " Golf " umbrellas are just large diameter umbrellas, perhaps 140cm. Except my understanding of golf is that one does not use an umbrella while playing golf. I don't know if they're still sold, but Totes made a folding umbrella which would automatically opens when pressing a button. And then automatically _collapses_ when pressing the same button. The center shaft stays extended like a conventional umbrella and must be collapsed manually. Collapsing the center resets the mechanism. _-T-_ | - s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 I have heard that there is a umbrella on the market that is not meant to blow inside out - is this what you are referring to? > > > I'm curious about the umbrella - I have a thing for umbrellas :-) > > We have a popular configuation in the eastern US for " golf " > umbrellas, which are constructed of two pieces but look > conventional. I have perhaps the first version of one of those, > in which the upper panel is mounted on spring bows. When a > strong wind hits, the upper panel flips up and acts as an > aerodynamic spoiler. " Golf " umbrellas are just large diameter > umbrellas, perhaps 140cm. > > Except my understanding of golf is that one does not use an > umbrella while playing golf. > > I don't know if they're still sold, but Totes made a folding > umbrella which would automatically opens when pressing a button. > And then automatically _collapses_ when pressing the same > button. The center shaft stays extended like a conventional > umbrella and must be collapsed manually. Collapsing the center > resets the mechanism. > > _-T-_ > | > - s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 > It's actually not the function that is new, just the design of > the umbrella. It's really cool, I'm sure you'd love it ! > > So, Stan, how would I go about protecting and selling this > design? Inger <boring text warning again -- mostly patent stuff> *If* you want to protect the idea, you must have intellectual property protection. That becomes quite costly. The patent must be applied for prior to public disclosure. The US grants a 1 year period after disclosure, but most other countries go according to " absolute novelty " . That means that you must apply for the patent before going public with it. Patent protection is national, so even with an international patent (PCT through WIPO) or an European patent (EP through the EPO), you still need to have the patent issue at the national stage. Most businesses choose a few countries with major markets, such as the US and a few European countries, or choose a few manufacturing countries. Incidentally, the filing date in the first country is valid for most other countries, provided that you file in the secondary countries within a year. (So theoretically you could file in Sweden even if the patent would be invalid in Sweden because of public disclosure, but use that patent application as a basis for a US patent application if the disclosure was less than a year before the Swedish application.) It is possible to discuss these ideas in confidence with a business prior to disclosure, but the rules vary from country to country. I mentioned the US with a 1 year " bar " date. Several countries permit general business discussions during a 1/2 year grace period. All of this depends on whether you can obtain reasonable protection at all. Just because you hadn't seen the umbrella doesn't mean it hasn't been designed and made public. Usually the patent systems are good at finding this kind of " prior art " , so there's not a lot of risk of having patented concepts which should be in the public domain. On the other hand, you can start producing the device and sell it, and not worry that others are doing the same. - stan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Stan, thanks for this info. Can I forward it to the two Aspies in question? Inger ----------------------------------- > Thanks... > So what you recommend is that the two Aspies I had dinner with, > who had an ingenious soft drink taste and a very innovative > computer idea (he is a computer expert with a proper degree) > respectively, should just forget those and not quit their day > job? The examples make it easier to explain. The soft drink .. If it can be economically produced, and if the market is there for the idea, then it's possible to do this. One has arrange for the components to be made and the product bottled. This can be done under a confidentiality agreement. If patent protection is an option, that would help, but that's pricey. The best way is to stay under the radar of the large manufacturers. Fortunately, there's an institutionalized bias against certain things, like use of fructose instead of sugar (in the US), use of processes that don't require preservatives, etc. But there's also the difficulty of getting the word out to consumers and getting the product distributed. Case in point -- orange soda can be made without preservatives or sugar, but requires higher cost processes and ingredients. Will people pay the retail cost of this? Alternatively, would people go through the trouble to make it themselves from seltzer (carbonated water) and frozen juice? In countries where orange soda is popular, a similar non-preserved drink is usually already on the market. > a very innovative computer idea Straightforward enough, since most computer devices can be prototyped with new and used computers and computer parts. Patent, produce and sell, or promote a prototype, keeping within the no-disclosure restrictions for patent filing. The problem is again getting the product recognized as valuable. If he's a computer expert, he should have an understanding of the business, at least from an engineer's standpoint. > should just forget those and not quit their day job? no. yes. With a project like that, the only reason to quit the day job is if the project " takes on a life of its own " . If that's the case, there's a good chance of seeing success. Also, it is possible that the employer, upon discussing this, may accept a leave of absence, " long enough to let me prove to myself the idea won't work. " - s FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, all female members of FAM Secret Society may join FAM Ladies' Lodge http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMLadiesLodge/ and all males from Secret Society may join FAM Gentlemen's Guild http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMGentlemensGuild/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Stan, thanks for this info. Can I forward it to the two Aspies in question? Inger ----------------------------------- > Thanks... > So what you recommend is that the two Aspies I had dinner with, > who had an ingenious soft drink taste and a very innovative > computer idea (he is a computer expert with a proper degree) > respectively, should just forget those and not quit their day > job? The examples make it easier to explain. The soft drink .. If it can be economically produced, and if the market is there for the idea, then it's possible to do this. One has arrange for the components to be made and the product bottled. This can be done under a confidentiality agreement. If patent protection is an option, that would help, but that's pricey. The best way is to stay under the radar of the large manufacturers. Fortunately, there's an institutionalized bias against certain things, like use of fructose instead of sugar (in the US), use of processes that don't require preservatives, etc. But there's also the difficulty of getting the word out to consumers and getting the product distributed. Case in point -- orange soda can be made without preservatives or sugar, but requires higher cost processes and ingredients. Will people pay the retail cost of this? Alternatively, would people go through the trouble to make it themselves from seltzer (carbonated water) and frozen juice? In countries where orange soda is popular, a similar non-preserved drink is usually already on the market. > a very innovative computer idea Straightforward enough, since most computer devices can be prototyped with new and used computers and computer parts. Patent, produce and sell, or promote a prototype, keeping within the no-disclosure restrictions for patent filing. The problem is again getting the product recognized as valuable. If he's a computer expert, he should have an understanding of the business, at least from an engineer's standpoint. > should just forget those and not quit their day job? no. yes. With a project like that, the only reason to quit the day job is if the project " takes on a life of its own " . If that's the case, there's a good chance of seeing success. Also, it is possible that the employer, upon discussing this, may accept a leave of absence, " long enough to let me prove to myself the idea won't work. " - s FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, all female members of FAM Secret Society may join FAM Ladies' Lodge http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMLadiesLodge/ and all males from Secret Society may join FAM Gentlemen's Guild http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMGentlemensGuild/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Stan, thanks for this info. Can I forward it to the two Aspies in question? Inger ----------------------------------- > Thanks... > So what you recommend is that the two Aspies I had dinner with, > who had an ingenious soft drink taste and a very innovative > computer idea (he is a computer expert with a proper degree) > respectively, should just forget those and not quit their day > job? The examples make it easier to explain. The soft drink .. If it can be economically produced, and if the market is there for the idea, then it's possible to do this. One has arrange for the components to be made and the product bottled. This can be done under a confidentiality agreement. If patent protection is an option, that would help, but that's pricey. The best way is to stay under the radar of the large manufacturers. Fortunately, there's an institutionalized bias against certain things, like use of fructose instead of sugar (in the US), use of processes that don't require preservatives, etc. But there's also the difficulty of getting the word out to consumers and getting the product distributed. Case in point -- orange soda can be made without preservatives or sugar, but requires higher cost processes and ingredients. Will people pay the retail cost of this? Alternatively, would people go through the trouble to make it themselves from seltzer (carbonated water) and frozen juice? In countries where orange soda is popular, a similar non-preserved drink is usually already on the market. > a very innovative computer idea Straightforward enough, since most computer devices can be prototyped with new and used computers and computer parts. Patent, produce and sell, or promote a prototype, keeping within the no-disclosure restrictions for patent filing. The problem is again getting the product recognized as valuable. If he's a computer expert, he should have an understanding of the business, at least from an engineer's standpoint. > should just forget those and not quit their day job? no. yes. With a project like that, the only reason to quit the day job is if the project " takes on a life of its own " . If that's the case, there's a good chance of seeing success. Also, it is possible that the employer, upon discussing this, may accept a leave of absence, " long enough to let me prove to myself the idea won't work. " - s FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, all female members of FAM Secret Society may join FAM Ladies' Lodge http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMLadiesLodge/ and all males from Secret Society may join FAM Gentlemen's Guild http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMGentlemensGuild/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Thanks for this too, Stan. Seems like a lot of hassle then, so I think the world may have to do without my extremely cool umbrella design. And what do I know, it may already exist somewhere. It's such a self-obvious idea that someone surely must have thought of it. Inger > It's actually not the function that is new, just the design of> the umbrella. It's really cool, I'm sure you'd love it ! > > So, Stan, how would I go about protecting and selling this> design? Inger<boring text warning again -- mostly patent stuff>*If* you want to protect the idea, you must have intellectual property protection. That becomes quite costly. The patent must be applied for prior to public disclosure. The US grants a 1 year period after disclosure, but most other countries go according to "absolute novelty". That means that you must apply for the patent before going public with it.Patent protection is national, so even with an international patent (PCT through WIPO) or an European patent (EP through the EPO), you still need to have the patent issue at the national stage. Most businesses choose a few countries with major markets, such as the US and a few European countries, or choose a few manufacturing countries.Incidentally, the filing date in the first country is valid for most other countries, provided that you file in the secondary countries within a year. (So theoretically you could file in Sweden even if the patent would be invalid in Sweden because of public disclosure, but use that patent application as a basis for a US patent application if the disclosure was less than a year before the Swedish application.)It is possible to discuss these ideas in confidence with a business prior to disclosure, but the rules vary from country to country. I mentioned the US with a 1 year "bar" date. Several countries permit general business discussions during a 1/2 year grace period.All of this depends on whether you can obtain reasonable protection at all. Just because you hadn't seen the umbrella doesn't mean it hasn't been designed and made public. Usually the patent systems are good at finding this kind of "prior art", so there's not a lot of risk of having patented concepts which should be in the public domain.On the other hand, you can start producing the device and sell it, and not worry that others are doing the same.- stanFAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, all female members of FAM Secret Society may join FAM Ladies' Lodge http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMLadiesLodge/ and all males from Secret Society may join FAM Gentlemen's Guild http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMGentlemensGuild/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Thanks for this too, Stan. Seems like a lot of hassle then, so I think the world may have to do without my extremely cool umbrella design. And what do I know, it may already exist somewhere. It's such a self-obvious idea that someone surely must have thought of it. Inger > It's actually not the function that is new, just the design of> the umbrella. It's really cool, I'm sure you'd love it ! > > So, Stan, how would I go about protecting and selling this> design? Inger<boring text warning again -- mostly patent stuff>*If* you want to protect the idea, you must have intellectual property protection. That becomes quite costly. The patent must be applied for prior to public disclosure. The US grants a 1 year period after disclosure, but most other countries go according to "absolute novelty". That means that you must apply for the patent before going public with it.Patent protection is national, so even with an international patent (PCT through WIPO) or an European patent (EP through the EPO), you still need to have the patent issue at the national stage. Most businesses choose a few countries with major markets, such as the US and a few European countries, or choose a few manufacturing countries.Incidentally, the filing date in the first country is valid for most other countries, provided that you file in the secondary countries within a year. (So theoretically you could file in Sweden even if the patent would be invalid in Sweden because of public disclosure, but use that patent application as a basis for a US patent application if the disclosure was less than a year before the Swedish application.)It is possible to discuss these ideas in confidence with a business prior to disclosure, but the rules vary from country to country. I mentioned the US with a 1 year "bar" date. Several countries permit general business discussions during a 1/2 year grace period.All of this depends on whether you can obtain reasonable protection at all. Just because you hadn't seen the umbrella doesn't mean it hasn't been designed and made public. Usually the patent systems are good at finding this kind of "prior art", so there's not a lot of risk of having patented concepts which should be in the public domain.On the other hand, you can start producing the device and sell it, and not worry that others are doing the same.- stanFAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, all female members of FAM Secret Society may join FAM Ladies' Lodge http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMLadiesLodge/ and all males from Secret Society may join FAM Gentlemen's Guild http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMGentlemensGuild/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 On 10 Mar 2005, Stan commented: > Elaborating.. > not an issue for the population as a whole - monitor flicker > http://www.scn.org/help/monitor.html - when I wrote it, I had no > idea most people weren't affected by this and didn't even know > about AS. True enough, most people aren't effected. However, there is a small but significant chance of a reaction to such flicker by epileptics as well AS folks. And this could be marketed to employers or educators based on reduced liability risks. Monitors in use where a seizure could have severe consequences coul be a potential market. Likewise monitors for use in social services or medical environments could be a target market. A monitor with reduced emissions -and- reduced flicker would be an even better fit for these markets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.