Guest guest Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 I too have thought of that possible switch. I continue to see eCW rated #1 every year by TEPR for best in small practice category. Alteer is great with some parts but weak in others. The updates have all been superficial “fluff” & the monthly “service” fee continues to rise. But, I too have concerns about the painfulness of the data transfer and about the upfront costs all over again (licensing fees, etc). I guess switching EMR’s will become a more scenario in the years to come as more people adopt & then find a better system down the road. EMR Just wanted to say that I had a fantastic time meeting everyone at the Scientific Assembly. Has anyone posted pictures yet? Thanks to all of you who have shown concern for my daughter and her health. She is doing really well presently, and we are very relieved and thankful for this. So many of you have been so supportive of me and encouraging to me through the rough times. Thanks! I have come back from the Assembly all fired up with ideas of how I want to improve my practice for my patients. One thing that I did was to sit down with the Eclinical Works people and find out how it compares with Alteer. I was shocked to see how much more it does! Technology has come so far in the past few years and Alteer is way behind. I am seriously thinking of switching, as Alteer has had no major updates in 2 years and what I am paying per month in " updates " and support is about the same if you bought the ECW subscription plan ( $ 400 a month). ECW has patient registry and even a secure patient portal where you can do virtual office visits. Is anyone using ECW... do you have any cautions with it... any advise to those of us who are thinking of switching EMRs? It will be painful to switch because of the data transfer ( Alteer will charge $7000-10,000 to do this. I will not pay a dime to them for this and will try and figure out a way to do this myself. The longer I wait, the harder it will be. Any advise would be greatly appreciated, especially from those who use ECW. Thanks again to all you IMPers! Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Hi , Does Alteer really think you would pay $10K to migrate data? That’s outrageous…I have considered changing to something cheaper than what I have, but maybe I have been hasty. I am paying $3K/yr for support and upgrades and thought that was steep, but maybe it is pretty middle-of-the-road. When I considered changing, I thought about re-entering data and decided that it was a good opportunity to “prune” charts. Only the active ones must be re-entered. Of course that means I am counting on having a copy of old charts available if ever needed. Does Alteer allow you to keep a static copy of all your data? A4 is a pretty “bells and whistles” sort of system, and not cheap, but let me know if you are interested… I really do love mine and would hate to do without it… Annie EMR Just wanted to say that I had a fantastic time meeting everyone at the Scientific Assembly. Has anyone posted pictures yet? Thanks to all of you who have shown concern for my daughter and her health. She is doing really well presently, and we are very relieved and thankful for this. So many of you have been so supportive of me and encouraging to me through the rough times. Thanks! I have come back from the Assembly all fired up with ideas of how I want to improve my practice for my patients. One thing that I did was to sit down with the Eclinical Works people and find out how it compares with Alteer. I was shocked to see how much more it does! Technology has come so far in the past few years and Alteer is way behind. I am seriously thinking of switching, as Alteer has had no major updates in 2 years and what I am paying per month in " updates " and support is about the same if you bought the ECW subscription plan ( $ 400 a month). ECW has patient registry and even a secure patient portal where you can do virtual office visits. Is anyone using ECW... do you have any cautions with it... any advise to those of us who are thinking of switching EMRs? It will be painful to switch because of the data transfer ( Alteer will charge $7000-10,000 to do this. I will not pay a dime to them for this and will try and figure out a way to do this myself. The longer I wait, the harder it will be. Any advise would be greatly appreciated, especially from those who use ECW. Thanks again to all you IMPers! Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Hi , Does Alteer really think you would pay $10K to migrate data? That’s outrageous…I have considered changing to something cheaper than what I have, but maybe I have been hasty. I am paying $3K/yr for support and upgrades and thought that was steep, but maybe it is pretty middle-of-the-road. When I considered changing, I thought about re-entering data and decided that it was a good opportunity to “prune” charts. Only the active ones must be re-entered. Of course that means I am counting on having a copy of old charts available if ever needed. Does Alteer allow you to keep a static copy of all your data? A4 is a pretty “bells and whistles” sort of system, and not cheap, but let me know if you are interested… I really do love mine and would hate to do without it… Annie EMR Just wanted to say that I had a fantastic time meeting everyone at the Scientific Assembly. Has anyone posted pictures yet? Thanks to all of you who have shown concern for my daughter and her health. She is doing really well presently, and we are very relieved and thankful for this. So many of you have been so supportive of me and encouraging to me through the rough times. Thanks! I have come back from the Assembly all fired up with ideas of how I want to improve my practice for my patients. One thing that I did was to sit down with the Eclinical Works people and find out how it compares with Alteer. I was shocked to see how much more it does! Technology has come so far in the past few years and Alteer is way behind. I am seriously thinking of switching, as Alteer has had no major updates in 2 years and what I am paying per month in " updates " and support is about the same if you bought the ECW subscription plan ( $ 400 a month). ECW has patient registry and even a secure patient portal where you can do virtual office visits. Is anyone using ECW... do you have any cautions with it... any advise to those of us who are thinking of switching EMRs? It will be painful to switch because of the data transfer ( Alteer will charge $7000-10,000 to do this. I will not pay a dime to them for this and will try and figure out a way to do this myself. The longer I wait, the harder it will be. Any advise would be greatly appreciated, especially from those who use ECW. Thanks again to all you IMPers! Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Hi , Does Alteer really think you would pay $10K to migrate data? That’s outrageous…I have considered changing to something cheaper than what I have, but maybe I have been hasty. I am paying $3K/yr for support and upgrades and thought that was steep, but maybe it is pretty middle-of-the-road. When I considered changing, I thought about re-entering data and decided that it was a good opportunity to “prune” charts. Only the active ones must be re-entered. Of course that means I am counting on having a copy of old charts available if ever needed. Does Alteer allow you to keep a static copy of all your data? A4 is a pretty “bells and whistles” sort of system, and not cheap, but let me know if you are interested… I really do love mine and would hate to do without it… Annie EMR Just wanted to say that I had a fantastic time meeting everyone at the Scientific Assembly. Has anyone posted pictures yet? Thanks to all of you who have shown concern for my daughter and her health. She is doing really well presently, and we are very relieved and thankful for this. So many of you have been so supportive of me and encouraging to me through the rough times. Thanks! I have come back from the Assembly all fired up with ideas of how I want to improve my practice for my patients. One thing that I did was to sit down with the Eclinical Works people and find out how it compares with Alteer. I was shocked to see how much more it does! Technology has come so far in the past few years and Alteer is way behind. I am seriously thinking of switching, as Alteer has had no major updates in 2 years and what I am paying per month in " updates " and support is about the same if you bought the ECW subscription plan ( $ 400 a month). ECW has patient registry and even a secure patient portal where you can do virtual office visits. Is anyone using ECW... do you have any cautions with it... any advise to those of us who are thinking of switching EMRs? It will be painful to switch because of the data transfer ( Alteer will charge $7000-10,000 to do this. I will not pay a dime to them for this and will try and figure out a way to do this myself. The longer I wait, the harder it will be. Any advise would be greatly appreciated, especially from those who use ECW. Thanks again to all you IMPers! Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 I was just wondering why Alteer would be the one expected to be responsible for exporting the records to another system when you are contemplating dumping them. I know nothing of Alteer, but if I was them, I don't think I would be all that excited about the project. Why not approach ECW and ask them to come up with a proposal for importing your records from Alteer as a condition of your entering an agreement with them? It would seem like the latter would be more likely to fit in with human nature and motivations. No relation to either of the above. I've never used or even seen either system. Caldwell MD Tulare, CA > > Hi , > > Does Alteer really think you would pay $10K to migrate data? That's > outrageous.I have considered changing to something cheaper than what I > have, but maybe I have been hasty. I am paying $3K/yr for support and > upgrades and thought that was steep, but maybe it is pretty > middle-of-the-road. When I considered changing, I thought about > re-entering data and decided that it was a good opportunity to " prune " > charts. Only the active ones must be re-entered. Of course that means > I am counting on having a copy of old charts available if ever needed. > Does Alteer allow you to keep a static copy of all your data? > A4 is a pretty " bells and whistles " sort of system, and not cheap, but > let me know if you are interested. I really do love mine and would hate > to do without it. > Annie > > EMR > > Just wanted to say that I had a fantastic time meeting everyone at the > Scientific Assembly. Has anyone posted pictures yet? > Thanks to all of you who have shown concern for my daughter and her > health. She is doing really well presently, and we are very relieved > and thankful for this. So many of you have been so supportive of me and > encouraging to me through the rough times. > Thanks! > > > I have come back from the Assembly all fired up with ideas of how I want > to improve my practice for my patients. > > One thing that I did was to sit down with the Eclinical Works people and > find out how it compares with Alteer. I was shocked to see how much > more it does! Technology has come so far in the past few years and > Alteer is way behind. I am seriously thinking of switching, as Alteer > has had no major updates in 2 years and what I am paying per month in > " updates " and support is about the same if you bought the ECW > subscription plan ( $ 400 a month). > > ECW has patient registry and even a secure patient portal where you can > do virtual office visits. > Is anyone using ECW... do you have any cautions with it... any advise to > those of us who are thinking of switching EMRs? > > It will be painful to switch because of the data transfer ( Alteer will > charge $7000-10,000 to do this. I will not pay a dime to them for this > and will try and figure out a way to do this myself. The longer I wait, > the harder it will be. > > Any advise would be greatly appreciated, especially from those who use > ECW. > > > Thanks again to all you IMPers! > > Lee > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 That might make sense if they wouldn't charge you to continue to have access to the data. They will cut off your access to the data. Also, it is on their server and they aren't giving up access to it for free. They hold it hostage. Caldwell wrote: I was just wondering why Alteer would be the one expected to beresponsible for exporting the records to another system when you are contemplating dumping them. I know nothing of Alteer, but if I wasthem, I don't think I would be all that excited about the project. Why not approach ECW and ask them to come up with a proposal forimporting your records from Alteer as a condition of your entering anagreement with them? It would seem like the latter would be morelikely to fit in with human nature and motivations. No relation to either of the above. I've never used or even seeneither system. Caldwell MDTulare, CA >> Hi ,> > Does Alteer really think you would pay $10K to migrate data? That's> outrageous.I have considered changing to something cheaper than what I> have, but maybe I have been hasty. I am paying $3K/yr for support and> upgrades and thought that was steep, but maybe it is pretty> middle-of-the-road. When I considered changing, I thought about> re-entering data and decided that it was a good opportunity to "prune"> charts. Only the active ones must be re-entered. Of course that means> I am counting on having a copy of old charts available if ever needed.> Does Alteer allow you to keep a static copy of all your data?> A4 is a pretty "bells and whistles" sort of system, and not cheap, but> let me know if you are interested. I really do love mine and would hate> to do without it.> Annie> > EMR> > Just wanted to say that I had a fantastic time meeting everyone at the> Scientific Assembly. Has anyone posted pictures yet?> Thanks to all of you who have shown concern for my daughter and her> health. She is doing really well presently, and we are very relieved> and thankful for this. So many of you have been so supportive of me and> encouraging to me through the rough times.> Thanks!> > > I have come back from the Assembly all fired up with ideas of how I want> to improve my practice for my patients.> > One thing that I did was to sit down with the Eclinical Works people and> find out how it compares with Alteer. I was shocked to see how much> more it does! Technology has come so far in the past few years and> Alteer is way behind. I am seriously thinking of switching, as Alteer> has had no major updates in 2 years and what I am paying per month in> "updates" and support is about the same if you bought the ECW> subscription plan ( $ 400 a month).> > ECW has patient registry and even a secure patient portal where you can> do virtual office visits. > Is anyone using ECW... do you have any cautions with it... any advise to> those of us who are thinking of switching EMRs? > > It will be painful to switch because of the data transfer ( Alteer will> charge $7000-10,000 to do this. I will not pay a dime to them for this> and will try and figure out a way to do this myself. The longer I wait,> the harder it will be.> > Any advise would be greatly appreciated, especially from those who use> ECW.> > > Thanks again to all you IMPers!> > Lee> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Gosh, that's kind of nasty of them! Caldwell > > > > Hi , > > > > Does Alteer really think you would pay $10K to migrate data? That's > > outrageous.I have considered changing to something cheaper than what I > > have, but maybe I have been hasty. I am paying $3K/yr for support and > > upgrades and thought that was steep, but maybe it is pretty > > middle-of-the-road. When I considered changing, I thought about > > re-entering data and decided that it was a good opportunity to " prune " > > charts. Only the active ones must be re-entered. Of course that means > > I am counting on having a copy of old charts available if ever needed. > > Does Alteer allow you to keep a static copy of all your data? > > A4 is a pretty " bells and whistles " sort of system, and not cheap, but > > let me know if you are interested. I really do love mine and would hate > > to do without it. > > Annie > > > > EMR > > > > Just wanted to say that I had a fantastic time meeting everyone at the > > Scientific Assembly. Has anyone posted pictures yet? > > Thanks to all of you who have shown concern for my daughter and her > > health. She is doing really well presently, and we are very relieved > > and thankful for this. So many of you have been so supportive of me and > > encouraging to me through the rough times. > > Thanks! > > > > > > I have come back from the Assembly all fired up with ideas of how I want > > to improve my practice for my patients. > > > > One thing that I did was to sit down with the Eclinical Works people and > > find out how it compares with Alteer. I was shocked to see how much > > more it does! Technology has come so far in the past few years and > > Alteer is way behind. I am seriously thinking of switching, as Alteer > > has had no major updates in 2 years and what I am paying per month in > > " updates " and support is about the same if you bought the ECW > > subscription plan ( $ 400 a month). > > > > ECW has patient registry and even a secure patient portal where you can > > do virtual office visits. > > Is anyone using ECW... do you have any cautions with it... any advise to > > those of us who are thinking of switching EMRs? > > > > It will be painful to switch because of the data transfer ( Alteer will > > charge $7000-10,000 to do this. I will not pay a dime to them for this > > and will try and figure out a way to do this myself. The longer I wait, > > the harder it will be. > > > > Any advise would be greatly appreciated, especially from those who use > > ECW. > > > > > > Thanks again to all you IMPers! > > > > Lee > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Right, but I see what he was saying. Why can’t eCW pay or somehow otherwise take it as their responsibility to obtain & import the data if you would decide to go with them? As long as you continue to pay the Alteer monthly fee you should still have full acess to the data. Of course, it would be pure torture but you could print off each & every page of every chart & scan them into the new EMR, right? EMR > > Just wanted to say that I had a fantastic time meeting everyone at the > Scientific Assembly. Has anyone posted pictures yet? > Thanks to all of you who have shown concern for my daughter and her > health. She is doing really well presently, and we are very relieved > and thankful for this. So many of you have been so supportive of me and > encouraging to me through the rough times. > Thanks! > > > I have come back from the Assembly all fired up with ideas of how I want > to improve my practice for my patients. > > One thing that I did was to sit down with the Eclinical Works people and > find out how it compares with Alteer. I was shocked to see how much > more it does! Technology has come so far in the past few years and > Alteer is way behind. I am seriously thinking of switching, as Alteer > has had no major updates in 2 years and what I am paying per month in > " updates " and support is about the same if you bought the ECW > subscription plan ( $ 400 a month). > > ECW has patient registry and even a secure patient portal where you can > do virtual office visits. > Is anyone using ECW... do you have any cautions with it... any advise to > those of us who are thinking of switching EMRs? > > It will be painful to switch because of the data transfer ( Alteer will > charge $7000-10,000 to do this. I will not pay a dime to them for this > and will try and figure out a way to do this myself. The longer I wait, > the harder it will be. > > Any advise would be greatly appreciated, especially from those who use > ECW. > > > Thanks again to all you IMPers! > > Lee > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 It was very nasty, and they are not my friends anymore! Caldwell wrote: Gosh, that's kind of nasty of them! Caldwell> >> > Hi ,> > > > Does Alteer really think you would pay $10K to migrate data? That's> > outrageous.I have considered changing to something cheaper than what I> > have, but maybe I have been hasty. I am paying $3K/yr for support and> > upgrades and thought that was steep, but maybe it is pretty> > middle-of-the-road. When I considered changing, I thought about> > re-entering data and decided that it was a good opportunity to "prune"> > charts. Only the active ones must be re-entered. Of course that means> > I am counting on having a copy of old charts available if ever needed.> > Does Alteer allow you to keep a static copy of all your data?> > A4 is a pretty "bells and whistles" sort of system, and not cheap, but> > let me know if you are interested. I really do love mine and wouldhate> > to do without it.> > Annie> > > > EMR> > > > Just wanted to say that I had a fantastic time meeting everyone at the> > Scientific Assembly. Has anyone posted pictures yet?> > Thanks to all of you who have shown concern for my daughter and her> > health. She is doing really well presently, and we are very relieved> > and thankful for this. So many of you have been so supportive ofme and> > encouraging to me through the rough times.> > Thanks!> > > > > > I have come back from the Assembly all fired up with ideas of howI want> > to improve my practice for my patients.> > > > One thing that I did was to sit down with the Eclinical Workspeople and> > find out how it compares with Alteer. I was shocked to see how much> > more it does! Technology has come so far in the past few years and> > Alteer is way behind. I am seriously thinking of switching, as Alteer> > has had no major updates in 2 years and what I am paying per month in> > "updates" and support is about the same if you bought the ECW> > subscription plan ( $ 400 a month).> > > > ECW has patient registry and even a secure patient portal whereyou can> > do virtual office visits. > > Is anyone using ECW... do you have any cautions with it... anyadvise to> > those of us who are thinking of switching EMRs? > > > > It will be painful to switch because of the data transfer ( Alteerwill> > charge $7000-10,000 to do this. I will not pay a dime to them for this> > and will try and figure out a way to do this myself. The longer Iwait,> > the harder it will be.> > > > Any advise would be greatly appreciated, especially from those who use> > ECW.> > > > > > Thanks again to all you IMPers!> > > > Lee> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 What is TEPR? A. Eads, M.D. Pinnacle Family Medicine, PLLC phone fax P.O. Box 7275 Woodland Park, CO 80863 From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Brock DO Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 7:08 AM To: Subject: RE: EMR I too have thought of that possible switch. I continue to see eCW rated #1 every year by TEPR for best in small practice category. Alteer is great with some parts but weak in others. The updates have all been superficial “fluff” & the monthly “service” fee continues to rise. But, I too have concerns about the painfulness of the data transfer and about the upfront costs all over again (licensing fees, etc). I guess switching EMR’s will become a more scenario in the years to come as more people adopt & then find a better system down the road. -----Original Message----- From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Leeclan Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 6:55 AM To: Subject: EMR Just wanted to say that I had a fantastic time meeting everyone at the Scientific Assembly. Has anyone posted pictures yet? Thanks to all of you who have shown concern for my daughter and her health. She is doing really well presently, and we are very relieved and thankful for this. So many of you have been so supportive of me and encouraging to me through the rough times. Thanks! I have come back from the Assembly all fired up with ideas of how I want to improve my practice for my patients. One thing that I did was to sit down with the Eclinical Works people and find out how it compares with Alteer. I was shocked to see how much more it does! Technology has come so far in the past few years and Alteer is way behind. I am seriously thinking of switching, as Alteer has had no major updates in 2 years and what I am paying per month in " updates " and support is about the same if you bought the ECW subscription plan ( $ 400 a month). ECW has patient registry and even a secure patient portal where you can do virtual office visits. Is anyone using ECW... do you have any cautions with it... any advise to those of us who are thinking of switching EMRs? It will be painful to switch because of the data transfer ( Alteer will charge $7000-10,000 to do this. I will not pay a dime to them for this and will try and figure out a way to do this myself. The longer I wait, the harder it will be. Any advise would be greatly appreciated, especially from those who use ECW. Thanks again to all you IMPers! Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 TEPR = Towards an Electronic Patient Record. They do things EMR related, pick “best in class” each year, etc. Try to Google “TEPR” & you should be able to find it. EMR Just wanted to say that I had a fantastic time meeting everyone at the Scientific Assembly. Has anyone posted pictures yet? Thanks to all of you who have shown concern for my daughter and her health. She is doing really well presently, and we are very relieved and thankful for this. So many of you have been so supportive of me and encouraging to me through the rough times. Thanks! I have come back from the Assembly all fired up with ideas of how I want to improve my practice for my patients. One thing that I did was to sit down with the Eclinical Works people and find out how it compares with Alteer. I was shocked to see how much more it does! Technology has come so far in the past few years and Alteer is way behind. I am seriously thinking of switching, as Alteer has had no major updates in 2 years and what I am paying per month in " updates " and support is about the same if you bought the ECW subscription plan ( $ 400 a month). ECW has patient registry and even a secure patient portal where you can do virtual office visits. Is anyone using ECW... do you have any cautions with it... any advise to those of us who are thinking of switching EMRs? It will be painful to switch because of the data transfer ( Alteer will charge $7000-10,000 to do this. I will not pay a dime to them for this and will try and figure out a way to do this myself. The longer I wait, the harder it will be. Any advise would be greatly appreciated, especially from those who use ECW. Thanks again to all you IMPers! Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2006 Report Share Posted October 7, 2006 towards the electronic patient record. Big EMR/ health IT conference held every year this past year was ?Baltimore, next year dallas. > >Reply-To: >To: < > >Subject: RE: EMR >Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 20:54:57 -0600 > >What is TEPR? > > > > A. Eads, M.D. > >Pinnacle Family Medicine, PLLC > > phone fax > >P.O. Box 7275 > >Woodland Park, CO 80863 > > _____ > >From: >[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Brock DO >Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 7:08 AM >To: >Subject: RE: EMR > > > >I too have thought of that possible switch. I continue to see eCW rated #1 >every year by TEPR for best in small practice category. Alteer is great >with some parts but weak in others. The updates have all been superficial > " fluff " & the monthly " service " fee continues to rise. But, I too have >concerns about the painfulness of the data transfer and about the upfront >costs all over again (licensing fees, etc). I guess switching EMR's will >become a more scenario in the years to come as more people adopt & then >find >a better system down the road. > > > > > > > > EMR > > > >Just wanted to say that I had a fantastic time meeting everyone at the >Scientific Assembly. Has anyone posted pictures yet? > >Thanks to all of you who have shown concern for my daughter and her health. >She is doing really well presently, and we are very relieved and thankful >for this. So many of you have been so supportive of me and encouraging to >me through the rough times. > >Thanks! > > > > > >I have come back from the Assembly all fired up with ideas of how I want to >improve my practice for my patients. > > > >One thing that I did was to sit down with the Eclinical Works people and >find out how it compares with Alteer. I was shocked to see how much more >it >does! Technology has come so far in the past few years and Alteer is way >behind. I am seriously thinking of switching, as Alteer has had no major >updates in 2 years and what I am paying per month in " updates " and support >is about the same if you bought the ECW subscription plan ( $ 400 a >month). > > > >ECW has patient registry and even a secure patient portal where you can do >virtual office visits. > >Is anyone using ECW... do you have any cautions with it... any advise to >those of us who are thinking of switching EMRs? > > > >It will be painful to switch because of the data transfer ( Alteer will >charge $7000-10,000 to do this. I will not pay a dime to them for this and >will try and figure out a way to do this myself. The longer I wait, the >harder it will be. > > > >Any advise would be greatly appreciated, especially from those who use >ECW. > > > > > >Thanks again to all you IMPers! > > > > Lee > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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