The Trolls Among Us [was Re: Recent ructions]

[Guest guest]

Tom,

I think you have a point there. It really does not seem that they think about the future, just about momentary gain. However, I do think that they are capable of planning for the future, but mostly related to personal gain at the expense of others. Probably most of the is limited to social maneuvering and scheming to gain a better social position or tear down someone else and keep them from getting ahead of oneself. That seems to be what goes on in the office and other places.

Also, they are capable of scheming to defraud others of money. The world is full of conmen, extortionists and others like them. I recently read about one who thought so far ahead that when she was caught, she claimed not guilty because the was adicted to defrauding senior citizens! (OK, that is your addiction. It also makes you a danger to society so we are going to put you away for a very long time.) Right now I think one of my neighbors is being subjected to just such a scam. I would love to talk about it but since it is very likely to come to trial before long, I don't want to say anything about it.

What I think makes us different is that we may plan for the future in a different way. When I was team leader in that class, I would plan our projects thinking about what would be best for the group. I knew the strengths and weaknesses of each person and what style of presentation we were best at and how we best approached topics. So by the last couple of classes I could put out a rough proposal right off the top of my head that was always received well. As a group we would refine and polish it and put out a good product. Some of the other groups seemed to have more internal divisions and arguments over who would do what and format and such. While we did have discussions, they were always productive and not negative.

So perhaps that is it. Perhaps we take a more constructive view of things than the NTs. Of course, that is not to say we always do. We do have our down times when depression and the blues have hold of us and other times when we are angry. I was speaking overall.

[Guest guest]

Tom,

I am not sure I completly agree or maybe it is too general of a comment. I mean NT's can see things coming and plan for the future and cause and effects in ways that we may not just like we do it in ways they do not. That is why they have all these programs and things to help AS kids. So I am able to see this from their perspective too but not really "get it". Does that make sense? I mean if they generally "could not see long term effects of what they do" then no one would be putting money in retirement accounts or buying insurance or maybe even exercising.

I hope I was able to get my point across.

Ruthenvironmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote:

Happens to me all the time. I was telling Inger that I think NTs do not see the long term effects of what they do. Aspies can think like chess players. We can see the consequences of our actions (or someone else's) six moves down the line, but NTs can apparently only see what is in front of their faces. I do not mean to be insulting at all when I make this statement. It's just the way I see it. And this opinion has been confirmed many times through observation.Tom> Yeah, I'm not surprised anymore to hear about that kind of thing. In> my awful (but educative) corporate days, there were several occasions> where I could see the company heading down the wrong track toward a> washed out bridge, and I seemed to be the only one who saw it. The NTs> were so busy with their tribal binding rituals that they seemed> blinded to anything else going on. And I was almost always right.I would like to frame this and hang it on my wall at work...FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, all female members of FAM Secret Society may join FAM Ladies' Lodge http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMLadiesLodge/ and all males

from Secret Society may join FAM Gentlemen's Guild http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMGentlemensGuild/.

Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web

[Guest guest]

Ken,

that is an interesting comment and I liked to think about it. Thank You. It made me think even deeper about His cry on the cross "forgive them for they know not what they do" or something to that effect, if you want the exact bible reference I am sure I can find it. And even deeper how He must hurt like we do sometimes knowing what we know and no one listens.

Ruthrubenken2000 wrote:

Reading your post, I found myself wondering how Jesus must have feltseeing some of the reactions to what he said and did.Ken> > > Yeah, I'm not surprised anymore to hear about that kind of thing. In> > my awful (but educative) corporate days, there were several occasions> > where I could see the company heading down the wrong track toward a> > washed out bridge, and I

seemed to be the only one who saw it. The NTs> > were so busy with their tribal binding rituals that they seemed> > blinded to anything else going on. And I was almost always right.> > I would like to frame this and hang it on my wall at work...> > > > > > FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. > > Don't forget, all female members of FAM Secret Society may join FAMLadies' Lodge http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMLadiesLodge/ andall males from Secret Society may join FAM Gentlemen's Guildhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMGentlemensGuild/. > > >

[Guest guest]

Tom,

putting it this way I do agree completly. I get really frustrated when people assume I am not smart or dumb even because I do not get what they are talking about but usually it is shallow topics that consist of no real thought. I have to admit I have gotten better at pretending sometimes though.

Ruthenvironmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote:

Aspies appear to be able to extrapoloate based on past experiences. They also hyperfocus on things to the point where cause and effect relationships are reasoned out as a matter of course.Additionally, try and imagine when you buttonhole an NT and begin talking about your favorite subject. They do NOT want to listen to everything you have to say because its overwhelming to them but you may WANT to communicate everything you can think of to facilitate understanding. NT and AS minds work in opposite ways. I just don't see why I should be criticised for trying to keep people from encountering dire consequences, nor do I see why my natural foresight should be the object of ridicule. If anything, I have to strive to "dumb myself down" around NTs whereas they don't even try to stretch or exercise their existing or

potential intelligence to communicate with me or understanding what I am trying to communicate to them.Tom>> Happens to me all the time.>> I was telling Inger that I think NTs do not

see the long term> effects of what they do. Aspies can think like chess players. We> can see the consequences of our actions (or someone else's) six> moves down the line, but NTs can apparently only see what is in> front of their faces. I do not mean to be insulting at all when I> make this statement. It's just the way I see it. And this opinion> has been confirmed many times through observation.>> TomFAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, all female members of FAM Secret Society may join FAM Ladies' Lodge http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMLadiesLodge/ and all males from Secret Society may join FAM Gentlemen's Guild http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMGentlemensGuild/. __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Ken,

I could give you a simply profound opinion on this but it may not be well recieved by everyone including you so I will only do it if you ask.

Ruthrubenken2000 wrote:

I don't know why Jesus keeps coming up today, because I'm a Jewpracticing Hinduism, but what comes to mind is:"Forgive them Father, they know know not what they do."Today is the Hindu celebration of Shivaratri, the new moon dedicatedto the deva, Shiva, the transformative aspect of God (Brahman, theAbsolute). Of the three aspects (creation, sustaining, tranformation),the latter energy predominates today.Ken> >> > Happens to me all the time.> >> > I was telling Inger that I think NTs do not see the long term> > effects of what they do. Aspies can think like chess players. We> > can see the consequences of our actions (or someone else's) six> > moves down the line, but NTs

can apparently only see what is in> > front of their faces. I do not mean to be insulting at all when I> > make this statement. It's just the way I see it. And this opinion> > has been confirmed many times through observation.> >> > TomFAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, all female members of FAM Secret Society may join FAM Ladies' Lodge http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMLadiesLodge/ and all males from Secret Society may join FAM Gentlemen's Guild http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMGentlemensGuild/. __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Ken,

I could give you a simply profound opinion on this but it may not be well recieved by everyone including you so I will only do it if you ask.

Ruthrubenken2000 wrote:

I don't know why Jesus keeps coming up today, because I'm a Jewpracticing Hinduism, but what comes to mind is:"Forgive them Father, they know know not what they do."Today is the Hindu celebration of Shivaratri, the new moon dedicatedto the deva, Shiva, the transformative aspect of God (Brahman, theAbsolute). Of the three aspects (creation, sustaining, tranformation),the latter energy predominates today.Ken> >> > Happens to me all the time.> >> > I was telling Inger that I think NTs do not see the long term> > effects of what they do. Aspies can think like chess players. We> > can see the consequences of our actions (or someone else's) six> > moves down the line, but NTs

can apparently only see what is in> > front of their faces. I do not mean to be insulting at all when I> > make this statement. It's just the way I see it. And this opinion> > has been confirmed many times through observation.> >> > TomFAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, all female members of FAM Secret Society may join FAM Ladies' Lodge http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMLadiesLodge/ and all males from Secret Society may join FAM Gentlemen's Guild http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMGentlemensGuild/. __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Ken,

I could give you a simply profound opinion on this but it may not be well recieved by everyone including you so I will only do it if you ask.

Ruthrubenken2000 wrote:

I don't know why Jesus keeps coming up today, because I'm a Jewpracticing Hinduism, but what comes to mind is:"Forgive them Father, they know know not what they do."Today is the Hindu celebration of Shivaratri, the new moon dedicatedto the deva, Shiva, the transformative aspect of God (Brahman, theAbsolute). Of the three aspects (creation, sustaining, tranformation),the latter energy predominates today.Ken> >> > Happens to me all the time.> >> > I was telling Inger that I think NTs do not see the long term> > effects of what they do. Aspies can think like chess players. We> > can see the consequences of our actions (or someone else's) six> > moves down the line, but NTs

can apparently only see what is in> > front of their faces. I do not mean to be insulting at all when I> > make this statement. It's just the way I see it. And this opinion> > has been confirmed many times through observation.> >> > TomFAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued. Don't forget, all female members of FAM Secret Society may join FAM Ladies' Lodge http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMLadiesLodge/ and all males from Secret Society may join FAM Gentlemen's Guild http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMGentlemensGuild/. __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I'm pretty broad-minded when it comes to religious issues, so I don't

think I'd be offended by anyone questioning my beliefs, which tend to

be all over the map. I wouldn't mind hearing what you have to say,

either by private e-mail or here.

Ken

> > >

> > > Happens to me all the time.

> > >

> > > I was telling Inger that I think NTs do not see the long term

> > > effects of what they do. Aspies can think like chess players. We

> > > can see the consequences of our actions (or someone else's) six

> > > moves down the line, but NTs can apparently only see what is in

> > > front of their faces. I do not mean to be insulting at all when I

> > > make this statement. It's just the way I see it. And this opinion

> > > has been confirmed many times through observation.

> > >

> > > Tom

>

>

>

>

>

> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,

support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

>

> Don't forget, all female members of FAM Secret Society may join FAM

Ladies' Lodge http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMLadiesLodge/ and

all males from Secret Society may join FAM Gentlemen's Guild

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMGentlemensGuild/.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On 8 Mar 2005, environmental1st2003 commented:

> The paltry amount American's put into their IRAs now will not

> sustain them through more than a third of their retirements

> regardless how it's invested. The cost of living increases

> torpedos any real gain in interest on safe investments and the

> tax rate when we retire is likely to be much higher than it is

> now to pay off all the all the debt the US is currently

> accumulating. Social Security will be a pittance also. Healthcare

> expenses will be through the roof and insurance coverages will be

> significantly less than it is now with co-payments and medication

> likely trippled in thirty years.

>

> Ideally, each and every American should buy items like cars and

> homes in cash, put the maximum amount of money allowed into their

> 401Ks, make Roth IRA contributions from the earliest possible age

> (meaning pay full taxes on earnings at a low rate now so as not

> to pay a higher rate on principal and interest during

> retirement), stop using credit cards and avoid borrowing money.

Ya know, I've been wondering about that.

The attraction of 401Ks and such is supposed to be that you

don't pay taxes on the income now, you pay taxes on it later

when taxes are -lower-. Taxes are going to get lower? Oh,

wait, but we'll be -older- then, so of course our tax rates will

be lower...

I'm a Baby Boomer. When I'm 68 or whatever the law requires by

then, most of the US population will be older than me. Most of

the available tax revenues will be from taxing us Old Folks. So

who says taxes when I'm old will be lower? They're about

guaranteed to be significantly higher!

And if putting all my money away now just means I don't get to

use it till I have to pay substantially more taxes on it, why

should I put it in there in the first place? Why not just go

ahead and spend it while I still can? If I invest it in

Substantial Stuff now, maybe -that- will sustain me in my

declining years.

I have serious trouble believing I can count on any retirement

plan that depends on promises from US Gummint politicians.