Re: Mom's Dairy

[Guest guest]

All~~~

I pasted the email response from Diane below my message here. Additionally,

when I first heard about this last night, gut instinct was that this is a

set-up (I'm SURE that I don't stand alone in that feeling!). Given the fact

that the Hartmann's are so keenly aware of how they're being watched, they

wouldn't have been careless on any level at any time. While I don't know

what the next steps are to take to aid them in this moment, let's get ready

to back them up to cover their needs and more as the story unfolds. This is

our opportunity to give back as a community and a TFMN family. The

Hartmann's are one of the most giving groups of people that I personally

know. Besides nourishing so many families with their amazing food, each of

them have laid down so much of themselves to come to the aid of others

without expecting anything in return. came to the aid of the Warehouse

multiple times and I could go on and on about his generosity alone. Let's

all be a united front for them...and if you pray, PRAY NOW AND PRAY HARD!

Becca

Hartmann's Response:

" Not sure where to begin. We have had the greatest fear of ours happen.

There is no backing for the shut down of our farm. They claim the problem

started with our milk but no tests confirm that. We know 2 of the families

and have talked to them. The ill children do not drink our milk. Many

sample were taken at the farm Wednesday.

If there was a problem with the milk it would not keep more than 4-5 days.

This was the only way for the Dept of Agriculture to come on our farm. They

have tagged all of our products, not to be taken from the premises.

There will be no delivery today, not sure about the next week. This was

also done prior to a holiday to make it difficult to get our own samples

done and talk to people who can assist with this.

Needless to say, this will be a financial strain on us.

You are always welcome to come to the farm, as that is allowable according

to the Dept. of Ag.

Thank you for your understanding and support,

The Hartmann's "

[Guest guest]

All~~~

I pasted the email response from Diane below my message here. Additionally,

when I first heard about this last night, gut instinct was that this is a

set-up (I'm SURE that I don't stand alone in that feeling!). Given the fact

that the Hartmann's are so keenly aware of how they're being watched, they

wouldn't have been careless on any level at any time. While I don't know

what the next steps are to take to aid them in this moment, let's get ready

to back them up to cover their needs and more as the story unfolds. This is

our opportunity to give back as a community and a TFMN family. The

Hartmann's are one of the most giving groups of people that I personally

know. Besides nourishing so many families with their amazing food, each of

them have laid down so much of themselves to come to the aid of others

without expecting anything in return. came to the aid of the Warehouse

multiple times and I could go on and on about his generosity alone. Let's

all be a united front for them...and if you pray, PRAY NOW AND PRAY HARD!

Becca

Hartmann's Response:

" Not sure where to begin. We have had the greatest fear of ours happen.

There is no backing for the shut down of our farm. They claim the problem

started with our milk but no tests confirm that. We know 2 of the families

and have talked to them. The ill children do not drink our milk. Many

sample were taken at the farm Wednesday.

If there was a problem with the milk it would not keep more than 4-5 days.

This was the only way for the Dept of Agriculture to come on our farm. They

have tagged all of our products, not to be taken from the premises.

There will be no delivery today, not sure about the next week. This was

also done prior to a holiday to make it difficult to get our own samples

done and talk to people who can assist with this.

Needless to say, this will be a financial strain on us.

You are always welcome to come to the farm, as that is allowable according

to the Dept. of Ag.

Thank you for your understanding and support,

The Hartmann's "

[Guest guest]

All~~~

I pasted the email response from Diane below my message here. Additionally,

when I first heard about this last night, gut instinct was that this is a

set-up (I'm SURE that I don't stand alone in that feeling!). Given the fact

that the Hartmann's are so keenly aware of how they're being watched, they

wouldn't have been careless on any level at any time. While I don't know

what the next steps are to take to aid them in this moment, let's get ready

to back them up to cover their needs and more as the story unfolds. This is

our opportunity to give back as a community and a TFMN family. The

Hartmann's are one of the most giving groups of people that I personally

know. Besides nourishing so many families with their amazing food, each of

them have laid down so much of themselves to come to the aid of others

without expecting anything in return. came to the aid of the Warehouse

multiple times and I could go on and on about his generosity alone. Let's

all be a united front for them...and if you pray, PRAY NOW AND PRAY HARD!

Becca

Hartmann's Response:

" Not sure where to begin. We have had the greatest fear of ours happen.

There is no backing for the shut down of our farm. They claim the problem

started with our milk but no tests confirm that. We know 2 of the families

and have talked to them. The ill children do not drink our milk. Many

sample were taken at the farm Wednesday.

If there was a problem with the milk it would not keep more than 4-5 days.

This was the only way for the Dept of Agriculture to come on our farm. They

have tagged all of our products, not to be taken from the premises.

There will be no delivery today, not sure about the next week. This was

also done prior to a holiday to make it difficult to get our own samples

done and talk to people who can assist with this.

Needless to say, this will be a financial strain on us.

You are always welcome to come to the farm, as that is allowable according

to the Dept. of Ag.

Thank you for your understanding and support,

The Hartmann's "

[Guest guest]

Of course, you are right, I agree that anything's possible...

Kathy

[Guest guest]

Of course, you are right, I agree that anything's possible...

Kathy

[Guest guest]

Of course, you are right, I agree that anything's possible...

Kathy

[Guest guest]

Sounds like the best thing would be to make a Memorial Day trip to the farm and

buy as much as possible!

Kathy

[Guest guest]

Sounds like the best thing would be to make a Memorial Day trip to the farm and

buy as much as possible!

Kathy

[Guest guest]

Sounds like the best thing would be to make a Memorial Day trip to the farm and

buy as much as possible!

Kathy

[Guest guest]

I don't post here regularly, though I knew you all would have the other side of

this story, and I appreciate having a place to come to get good information.

I'm wondering if someone can tell me how to get to the Hartmann's Farm or where

it's located. We aren't customers of theirs, but we very much appreciate our

own raw dairy farmer and know that they are taking a risk by being willing to

provide this amazing resource to us. Because of that we would love to provide

some financial support to the Hartmann's. We can't afford much, but if everyone

gives what they can, it seems like it would make a difference, collectively.

Thanks so much for any information that you have.

Scribner-O'Pray

[Guest guest]

I don't post here regularly, though I knew you all would have the other side of

this story, and I appreciate having a place to come to get good information.

I'm wondering if someone can tell me how to get to the Hartmann's Farm or where

it's located. We aren't customers of theirs, but we very much appreciate our

own raw dairy farmer and know that they are taking a risk by being willing to

provide this amazing resource to us. Because of that we would love to provide

some financial support to the Hartmann's. We can't afford much, but if everyone

gives what they can, it seems like it would make a difference, collectively.

Thanks so much for any information that you have.

Scribner-O'Pray

[Guest guest]

I don't post here regularly, though I knew you all would have the other side of

this story, and I appreciate having a place to come to get good information.

I'm wondering if someone can tell me how to get to the Hartmann's Farm or where

it's located. We aren't customers of theirs, but we very much appreciate our

own raw dairy farmer and know that they are taking a risk by being willing to

provide this amazing resource to us. Because of that we would love to provide

some financial support to the Hartmann's. We can't afford much, but if everyone

gives what they can, it seems like it would make a difference, collectively.

Thanks so much for any information that you have.

Scribner-O'Pray

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks for taking the time to explain that,however I was more wondering the

actual facts as to how they determined the connection not the theory of it.

There is a lot of missing info. Do these people know eachother? etc.

I understand that it is possible in the big normal scheme of things for there to

be ecoli in raw milk, but it is highly improbable -- and with the experience of

bogus investigations, its not altogether unwise to assume this is bogus too.

Interesting that Diane said the two toddlers don't drink the milk.

Also the Strib article today says that both of the toddler's parent's didn't

know they were drinking raw milk, one said they didn't know raw milk is

unpasteurized. These don't sound like the educated customers I know.

Ecoli is not good, but maybe we should all refresh our mempoies on what happens

when bad bacteria gets in raw milk -- and how the good guys get the bad guys --

does anyone have a link to the/an article on that?

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks for taking the time to explain that,however I was more wondering the

actual facts as to how they determined the connection not the theory of it.

There is a lot of missing info. Do these people know eachother? etc.

I understand that it is possible in the big normal scheme of things for there to

be ecoli in raw milk, but it is highly improbable -- and with the experience of

bogus investigations, its not altogether unwise to assume this is bogus too.

Interesting that Diane said the two toddlers don't drink the milk.

Also the Strib article today says that both of the toddler's parent's didn't

know they were drinking raw milk, one said they didn't know raw milk is

unpasteurized. These don't sound like the educated customers I know.

Ecoli is not good, but maybe we should all refresh our mempoies on what happens

when bad bacteria gets in raw milk -- and how the good guys get the bad guys --

does anyone have a link to the/an article on that?

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks for taking the time to explain that,however I was more wondering the

actual facts as to how they determined the connection not the theory of it.

There is a lot of missing info. Do these people know eachother? etc.

I understand that it is possible in the big normal scheme of things for there to

be ecoli in raw milk, but it is highly improbable -- and with the experience of

bogus investigations, its not altogether unwise to assume this is bogus too.

Interesting that Diane said the two toddlers don't drink the milk.

Also the Strib article today says that both of the toddler's parent's didn't

know they were drinking raw milk, one said they didn't know raw milk is

unpasteurized. These don't sound like the educated customers I know.

Ecoli is not good, but maybe we should all refresh our mempoies on what happens

when bad bacteria gets in raw milk -- and how the good guys get the bad guys --

does anyone have a link to the/an article on that?

[Guest guest]

VERY interesting Sara, thanks for researching that!

[Guest guest]

VERY interesting Sara, thanks for researching that!

[Guest guest]

VERY interesting Sara, thanks for researching that!

[Guest guest]

>

> From what I have read, this particular E.Coli (if that is in fact the one

present in the victims) forms only in an acidic rumen.  Grass-fed animals do not

have an acidic rumen so the organism cannot form or survive there.  Feeding

excessive grain changes the pH of the cow's rumen toward acidic, and this is

when the bacteria start proliferating.  That is why it is so bad for humans,

because the organism can survive a trip through our acidic stomach.

As I said, it doesn't matter. It can come from other sources, even if

it's not coming from a cow's digestive tract, although there is

evidence that it can survive in grass-fed cow's stomachs as well.

http://www.slate.com/id/2242290

In any event, it may appeal to our sense of social responsibility an

desire to show solidarity to buy and consume raw milk products from

this particular farm, but I would caution against consuming it raw

without making sure that it's not contaminated, and for that we cannot

rely upon our hopes alone.

- Tipper

[Guest guest]

>

> From what I have read, this particular E.Coli (if that is in fact the one

present in the victims) forms only in an acidic rumen.  Grass-fed animals do not

have an acidic rumen so the organism cannot form or survive there.  Feeding

excessive grain changes the pH of the cow's rumen toward acidic, and this is

when the bacteria start proliferating.  That is why it is so bad for humans,

because the organism can survive a trip through our acidic stomach.

As I said, it doesn't matter. It can come from other sources, even if

it's not coming from a cow's digestive tract, although there is

evidence that it can survive in grass-fed cow's stomachs as well.

http://www.slate.com/id/2242290

In any event, it may appeal to our sense of social responsibility an

desire to show solidarity to buy and consume raw milk products from

this particular farm, but I would caution against consuming it raw

without making sure that it's not contaminated, and for that we cannot

rely upon our hopes alone.

- Tipper

[Guest guest]

>

> From what I have read, this particular E.Coli (if that is in fact the one

present in the victims) forms only in an acidic rumen.  Grass-fed animals do not

have an acidic rumen so the organism cannot form or survive there.  Feeding

excessive grain changes the pH of the cow's rumen toward acidic, and this is

when the bacteria start proliferating.  That is why it is so bad for humans,

because the organism can survive a trip through our acidic stomach.

As I said, it doesn't matter. It can come from other sources, even if

it's not coming from a cow's digestive tract, although there is

evidence that it can survive in grass-fed cow's stomachs as well.

http://www.slate.com/id/2242290

In any event, it may appeal to our sense of social responsibility an

desire to show solidarity to buy and consume raw milk products from

this particular farm, but I would caution against consuming it raw

without making sure that it's not contaminated, and for that we cannot

rely upon our hopes alone.

- Tipper

[Guest guest]

> I understand that it is possible in the big normal scheme of things for there

to be ecoli in raw milk, but it is highly improbable -- and with the experience

of bogus investigations, its not altogether unwise to assume this is bogus too.

Sounds like a lot of effort and money to go toward shutting down one

farm. I'm not buying into the conspiracy theory at the moment.

> Interesting that Diane said the two toddlers don't drink the milk.

E. coli is highly contagious, but it's not always going to be obvious

that you've been infected, as we all have different immune systems and

tolerances. It's possible that the parents consumed it and had mild

symptoms, but infected their children indirectly (such as not washing

hands well before preparing food that the children ate).

- Tipper

[Guest guest]

> I understand that it is possible in the big normal scheme of things for there

to be ecoli in raw milk, but it is highly improbable -- and with the experience

of bogus investigations, its not altogether unwise to assume this is bogus too.

Sounds like a lot of effort and money to go toward shutting down one

farm. I'm not buying into the conspiracy theory at the moment.

> Interesting that Diane said the two toddlers don't drink the milk.

E. coli is highly contagious, but it's not always going to be obvious

that you've been infected, as we all have different immune systems and

tolerances. It's possible that the parents consumed it and had mild

symptoms, but infected their children indirectly (such as not washing

hands well before preparing food that the children ate).

- Tipper

[Guest guest]

> I understand that it is possible in the big normal scheme of things for there

to be ecoli in raw milk, but it is highly improbable -- and with the experience

of bogus investigations, its not altogether unwise to assume this is bogus too.

Sounds like a lot of effort and money to go toward shutting down one

farm. I'm not buying into the conspiracy theory at the moment.

> Interesting that Diane said the two toddlers don't drink the milk.

E. coli is highly contagious, but it's not always going to be obvious

that you've been infected, as we all have different immune systems and

tolerances. It's possible that the parents consumed it and had mild

symptoms, but infected their children indirectly (such as not washing

hands well before preparing food that the children ate).

- Tipper

[Guest guest]

It is unfortunate that we all do not have our facts. The truth is they have been

trying to shut them down- but if you knew the Hartmann's or anything about

selling raw milk you would know why they have not been shutdown. I would

encourage you to make a trip to Hartmann's and learn about the farm and

the farmers before you make any comments! That to me would be an educated

consumer- knowing both sides of the story.

Duskwind Farm

>

> > The state has been trying to shut down Hartmann Dairy for at least 10 years.

> >  It's not a conspiracy, the state would like to ban raw milk sales, and the

> > Hartmann's are probably the most vocal and visible raw milk dairy farmers in

> > MN.

>

> If they wanted to shut them down, for real, it would take a lot less

> than 10 years, and a lot less than a few people becoming infected with

> E. coli. It's the very definition of a conspiracy theory to make a

> jump from this E. coli outbreak to " the government is trying to shut

> them down. "

>

> > Reread the strib article. There is no reference to any statement like 'we

> > tested the milk and found it contaminated'.

> > The article is about how Hartmann Dairy is 'linked' to an outbreak. What

> > does 'linked mean? It is not defined.

>

> " Linked " implies that they linked it to that particular dairy. They

> linked it by comparing the DNA of the E. coli in the individuals and

> the food they had in common, which was apparently raw milk from this

> dairy. No article needs to spell this out explicitly.

>

> > Until I see some hard evidence of an issue at the farm, my conclusion is

> > that this is just the latest chapter in the harassment saga.

>

> OK. I invite anyone who goes out and buys raw milk from them to report

> back about any symptoms they experience. Keep us in the loop.

>

> - Tipper

>