Re: Acid reflux in 6 year old

[Guest guest]

I agree with Darla about the Zycarb, has made a lot of difference to s reflux, still there from time to time but nothing like before.

Vit C is not tolerated at all by , maybe it makes his reflux worse, never considered that before.

Vicky

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I typed a response, then I think I accidentally deleted it (or it

was sent but I can't find it anywhere!!!)

Just to say that for me, Vit C definitely exacerbates the reflux, in

fact, any and all supplements make my reflux worse when it is

flaring up. When it's not flaring up I can tolerate the magnesium

and calcium.

The only supplement that I've found that helps is HNI ZyCarb. I

haven't taken it consistently but it definitely helps with the

reflux if I take it just after a meal.

Also, our son has reflux (still at 4 1/2) and it is always much

worse after GI illness. When he was younger it was chronically bad

and the paediatrician told us that any sickness can exacerbate it,

particularly GI illnesses (such as rotavirus), because they slow the

entire GI tract down. It would sometimes take him months to recover

his reflux flare up after a bout of illness. Even when he gets a

cold the reflux flares up. We just use the Gaviscon Infant right

now. When I took him off of the PPI (Omeprazole) he made a huge

developmental leap so I'm trying to keep him off of it.

I'm sorry I don't have any good news or really helpful suggestions

but I would be cautious with giving lots of Vit C to someone with

reflux.

All the best,

Darla

>

> Hi all,

>

> Since daughter had winter vomiting virus in December she has been

in a

> lot of discomfort from acid. feeling 'burny' in the chest area.

She

> describes it as a burning and scraping on her chest muscles.

Doctor

> gave her Pepsin for short term relief but lately pain was getting

bad

> and she was spitting up acid after exercise. Now been prescrived

> Ranitidine which is an antacid and told to take a spoon before

meals.

>

> Does anyone know if this would interfere with her digestive

enzymes (

> or vice versa ) that she takes before meals ?

>

> She has also been having regular stomach pain again so I have

upped her

> Vit C / Mag to try and get her bowel moving better. However, I am

now

> worrying that it may be the acid upsetting her tummy - could this

cause

> a stomach ulcer ?

>

> Would appreciate any thoughts / advices.

>

> Thanks as always

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I typed a response, then I think I accidentally deleted it (or it

was sent but I can't find it anywhere!!!)

Just to say that for me, Vit C definitely exacerbates the reflux, in

fact, any and all supplements make my reflux worse when it is

flaring up. When it's not flaring up I can tolerate the magnesium

and calcium.

The only supplement that I've found that helps is HNI ZyCarb. I

haven't taken it consistently but it definitely helps with the

reflux if I take it just after a meal.

Also, our son has reflux (still at 4 1/2) and it is always much

worse after GI illness. When he was younger it was chronically bad

and the paediatrician told us that any sickness can exacerbate it,

particularly GI illnesses (such as rotavirus), because they slow the

entire GI tract down. It would sometimes take him months to recover

his reflux flare up after a bout of illness. Even when he gets a

cold the reflux flares up. We just use the Gaviscon Infant right

now. When I took him off of the PPI (Omeprazole) he made a huge

developmental leap so I'm trying to keep him off of it.

I'm sorry I don't have any good news or really helpful suggestions

but I would be cautious with giving lots of Vit C to someone with

reflux.

All the best,

Darla

>

> Hi all,

>

> Since daughter had winter vomiting virus in December she has been

in a

> lot of discomfort from acid. feeling 'burny' in the chest area.

She

> describes it as a burning and scraping on her chest muscles.

Doctor

> gave her Pepsin for short term relief but lately pain was getting

bad

> and she was spitting up acid after exercise. Now been prescrived

> Ranitidine which is an antacid and told to take a spoon before

meals.

>

> Does anyone know if this would interfere with her digestive

enzymes (

> or vice versa ) that she takes before meals ?

>

> She has also been having regular stomach pain again so I have

upped her

> Vit C / Mag to try and get her bowel moving better. However, I am

now

> worrying that it may be the acid upsetting her tummy - could this

cause

> a stomach ulcer ?

>

> Would appreciate any thoughts / advices.

>

> Thanks as always

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I typed a response, then I think I accidentally deleted it (or it

was sent but I can't find it anywhere!!!)

Just to say that for me, Vit C definitely exacerbates the reflux, in

fact, any and all supplements make my reflux worse when it is

flaring up. When it's not flaring up I can tolerate the magnesium

and calcium.

The only supplement that I've found that helps is HNI ZyCarb. I

haven't taken it consistently but it definitely helps with the

reflux if I take it just after a meal.

Also, our son has reflux (still at 4 1/2) and it is always much

worse after GI illness. When he was younger it was chronically bad

and the paediatrician told us that any sickness can exacerbate it,

particularly GI illnesses (such as rotavirus), because they slow the

entire GI tract down. It would sometimes take him months to recover

his reflux flare up after a bout of illness. Even when he gets a

cold the reflux flares up. We just use the Gaviscon Infant right

now. When I took him off of the PPI (Omeprazole) he made a huge

developmental leap so I'm trying to keep him off of it.

I'm sorry I don't have any good news or really helpful suggestions

but I would be cautious with giving lots of Vit C to someone with

reflux.

All the best,

Darla

>

> Hi all,

>

> Since daughter had winter vomiting virus in December she has been

in a

> lot of discomfort from acid. feeling 'burny' in the chest area.

She

> describes it as a burning and scraping on her chest muscles.

Doctor

> gave her Pepsin for short term relief but lately pain was getting

bad

> and she was spitting up acid after exercise. Now been prescrived

> Ranitidine which is an antacid and told to take a spoon before

meals.

>

> Does anyone know if this would interfere with her digestive

enzymes (

> or vice versa ) that she takes before meals ?

>

> She has also been having regular stomach pain again so I have

upped her

> Vit C / Mag to try and get her bowel moving better. However, I am

now

> worrying that it may be the acid upsetting her tummy - could this

cause

> a stomach ulcer ?

>

> Would appreciate any thoughts / advices.

>

> Thanks as always

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Darla, will ease up on the vitamins to see if that brings some

relief.

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > Since daughter had winter vomiting virus in December she has been

> in a

> > lot of discomfort from acid. feeling 'burny' in the chest area.

> She

> > describes it as a burning and scraping on her chest muscles.

> Doctor

> > gave her Pepsin for short term relief but lately pain was getting

> bad

> > and she was spitting up acid after exercise. Now been prescrived

> > Ranitidine which is an antacid and told to take a spoon before

> meals.

> >

> > Does anyone know if this would interfere with her digestive

> enzymes (

> > or vice versa ) that she takes before meals ?

> >

> > She has also been having regular stomach pain again so I have

> upped her

> > Vit C / Mag to try and get her bowel moving better. However, I

am

> now

> > worrying that it may be the acid upsetting her tummy - could this

> cause

> > a stomach ulcer ?

> >

> > Would appreciate any thoughts / advices.

> >

> > Thanks as always

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Darla, will ease up on the vitamins to see if that brings some

relief.

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > Since daughter had winter vomiting virus in December she has been

> in a

> > lot of discomfort from acid. feeling 'burny' in the chest area.

> She

> > describes it as a burning and scraping on her chest muscles.

> Doctor

> > gave her Pepsin for short term relief but lately pain was getting

> bad

> > and she was spitting up acid after exercise. Now been prescrived

> > Ranitidine which is an antacid and told to take a spoon before

> meals.

> >

> > Does anyone know if this would interfere with her digestive

> enzymes (

> > or vice versa ) that she takes before meals ?

> >

> > She has also been having regular stomach pain again so I have

> upped her

> > Vit C / Mag to try and get her bowel moving better. However, I

am

> now

> > worrying that it may be the acid upsetting her tummy - could this

> cause

> > a stomach ulcer ?

> >

> > Would appreciate any thoughts / advices.

> >

> > Thanks as always

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Darla, will ease up on the vitamins to see if that brings some

relief.

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > Since daughter had winter vomiting virus in December she has been

> in a

> > lot of discomfort from acid. feeling 'burny' in the chest area.

> She

> > describes it as a burning and scraping on her chest muscles.

> Doctor

> > gave her Pepsin for short term relief but lately pain was getting

> bad

> > and she was spitting up acid after exercise. Now been prescrived

> > Ranitidine which is an antacid and told to take a spoon before

> meals.

> >

> > Does anyone know if this would interfere with her digestive

> enzymes (

> > or vice versa ) that she takes before meals ?

> >

> > She has also been having regular stomach pain again so I have

> upped her

> > Vit C / Mag to try and get her bowel moving better. However, I

am

> now

> > worrying that it may be the acid upsetting her tummy - could this

> cause

> > a stomach ulcer ?

> >

> > Would appreciate any thoughts / advices.

> >

> > Thanks as always

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My daughter cannot swallow capsules - could I open the ZyCarb and mis it with a little pear puree ? She already takes the 3 Houston enzymes before meals in this form - is there something different in the ZyCarb that specifically targets the acid do you think?

>>Yes you can do that. If you are already using Zyme Prime then you could substitute the ZyCarb for that to keep number and cost down. I can always send you some samples. Several folks have found it helpful in reflux now, I asked Devin Houston why he thought that was but he didn't know

Sometimes things are just because!

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

Vicky,

My daughter cannot swallow capsules - could I open the ZyCarb and

mis it with a little pear puree ? She already takes the 3 Houston

enzymes before meals in this form - is there something different in

the ZyCarb that specifically targets the acid do you think?

Also, do you think I'm panicking too much about the possibility of a

stomach ulcer ? I just worry about that acid floating about her

body.

>

> I agree with Darla about the Zycarb, has made a lot of difference

to s

> reflux, still there from time to time but nothing like before.

> Vit C is not tolerated at all by , maybe it makes his reflux

worse,

> never considered that before.

> Vicky

>

[Guest guest]

It targets Carbs and starches which are hard to digest, without it

can't have carbs at all, and is refluxing all night. You can

open the capsules, I put them in a spoonful of water. The other thing

you might want to look at is the reflux diet, can post a link for you

later if you want.

Vicky In Autism-Biomedical-

Europe , " clebutterfly2 " wrote:

>

> Vicky,

>

> My daughter cannot swallow capsules - could I open the ZyCarb and

> mis it with a little pear puree ? She already takes the 3 Houston

> enzymes before meals in this form - is there something different in

> the ZyCarb that specifically targets the acid do you think?

>

> Also, do you think I'm panicking too much about the possibility of

a

> stomach ulcer ? I just worry about that acid floating about her

> body.

>

>

> >

> > I agree with Darla about the Zycarb, has made a lot of difference

> to s

> > reflux, still there from time to time but nothing like before.

> > Vit C is not tolerated at all by , maybe it makes his reflux

> worse,

> > never considered that before.

> > Vicky

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much everyone for your replies - not in the least

patronising, as always very very helpful. Will sleep a little easier

tonight " Action is the antidote to despair " and all that !

Any info on a refluz diet would be great.

Butterfly x

[Guest guest]

I think all reflux is not the same!

We buy Thorne Research B and B from Nutricentre.

I should have added, sorry, that Tom's reflux was not serious, I believe.

Sara

Darla wrote:

>

> Yes, I've heard this before in Natasha do-dah's book (what's her

> name?) Where did you buy the B and P Sara? I tried the vinegar,

> lemon thingy (to give more acid) and it just made me so much worse so

> I didn't try it with . D x

>

> 2009/2/6 Sara Moroza- <Moroza-@...

> >

>

> Can I add as well please that sometimes reflux is caused by

> insuffiecient stomach acid and that the use of antacids and

> anti-reflux

> drugs will exacerbate the situation. Tom had reflux and we seem to

> have

> cured it by giving Betaine and Pepsin before every meal. B and P

> encourages stomach acid production. My husband has also cured his

> reflux

> with B and P and now so has Tom's therapist. Pretty impressive, I

> think.

> Sara

>

> Darla wrote:

> > Hi,

> > Just to let you know, it is not excess acid that is causing the

> reflux

> > and excess acid won't cause a stomach ulcer. A stomach ulcer is

> > caused by the lining of the stomach being somehow compromised (by a

> > bacteria, spicy food, NSAIDs) and the acid coming into contact with

> > the unlined stomach tissue. This can happen even with low levels of

> > stomach acid. The reflux is simply (what could be normal levels of

> > acid) coming back up into the esophagus. I experience mine as

> stomach

> > pain (and it is bloody bloody painful) but it is actually in the

> > esophagus.

> >

> > You may be able to get a prescription for Omeprazole which can

> inhibit

> > the production of stomach acid. It is a short-acting medication so

> > your daughter would have immediate relief. It did help for a

> > long time and it helped me as well but then it started giving me

> > horrible stomach aches when I was on it long term. I find that

> taking

> > it intermittently helps me.

> >

> > Another thing, when my reflux is bad any NSAID causes me

> horrible pain

> > and I find exactly the same with . So try to restrict your

> use of

> > neurofen if you can.

> >

> > Anyway, hope I'm not patronising you by telling you all this...

> > Take care,

> > Darla x

> >

> >

> >

> > 2009/2/6 clebutterfly2 <clebutterfly2@...

> <mailto:clebutterfly2%40btinternet.com>

> > <mailto:clebutterfly2@...

> <mailto:clebutterfly2%40btinternet.com>>>

> >

> > Vicky,

> >

> > My daughter cannot swallow capsules - could I open the ZyCarb and

> > mis it with a little pear puree ? She already takes the 3 Houston

> > enzymes before meals in this form - is there something different in

> > the ZyCarb that specifically targets the acid do you think?

> >

> > Also, do you think I'm panicking too much about the possibility of a

> > stomach ulcer ? I just worry about that acid floating about her

> > body.

> >

> >

> > >

> > > I agree with Darla about the Zycarb, has made a lot of difference

> > to s

> > > reflux, still there from time to time but nothing like before.

> > > Vit C is not tolerated at all by , maybe it makes his reflux

> > worse,

> > > never considered that before.

> > > Vicky

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry for jumping in here, I'm also be interested in looking at the

reflux diet you mentioned earlier Vicky.

I do worry if there are negative effects with long term use of

Omeprazole. Haven't tried the HNI Zycarb, I'll definitely give it a

try.

Also there's websites that advertise a cure for reflux, claiming some

simple grocery items in the home will get rid of/cure reflux. Are they

just false? as it seems you have to part with money to be able to get

access to their recommendations. Any experiences of these anyone?

emily

>

> was dx as a baby that the flap[don't know the medical word] was

not

> closing and so letting food back up, they wanted him to have an op at

the RF, we

> refused as he was so premmie and there was a high percentage of cases

where

> it righted itself in time, this may be why he still has some reflux,

but I am

> only guessing because interventions have reduced it at least 75%.

> Vicky

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

I haven't found any long term adverse effects from Omeprazole, in

fact I have found it the only med that makes a difference. It

doesn't stop stomach contents coming up which can feel horrible but

it cuts out the pain and the tissue damage by cutting the acid.

Adam has had reflux since birth and he's 15 now. Loads of early meds

including cisapride and ranitidine.

He has had surgery twice to correct this, Nissen Fundoplication,

they make a new one way valve to stop stomach contents coming back

up. Under surgery the first time they found that his oesophagus

was badly distended and ulcerated, flesh stripped off it, but you

would not have know from his behaviour. He learned to blank out

pain. The first surgery was open, so massive op. The second, repeat,

was keyhole, and much quicker recovery. The op is great, to be med

free and reflux free, but can slacken off over time and need repeat.

Adam is having bad reflux again and has been reviewed over the past

year for it. Back on Omeprazole. If i forget even one dose he is in

pain by the evening. However, GOS is reluctant to re-op without

investigations to confirm diagnosis (they of course don't believe a

non-verbal child with autism) so he is back as inpatient this week

for gastroscopy and 24 hr Ph probe (under light anaesthetic). I

think they will redo Nissan, unless they find something else which I

hope not!!! The NIssan changed Adam's life for the better and I

think for kids severely effected it is a good procedure. Better than

PAIN all the time.

The other thing that helps is Gaviscon liquid, it helps it stop

coming up by forming a skin on top of stomach contents - it does

increase constipation though and I have to counterbalance with

more laxatives.

Don't know if this is helpful, I hope so. So busy fighting the

bloody LA at present don't have time to read posts usually. Adam

still getting no education, will be 3 years in March.

Celia.

- In Autism-Biomedical-Europe , " Scorer "

wrote:

>

>

> Sorry for jumping in here, I'm also be interested in looking at the

> reflux diet you mentioned earlier Vicky.

>

> I do worry if there are negative effects with long term use of

> Omeprazole. Haven't tried the HNI Zycarb, I'll definitely give it a

> try.

>

> Also there's websites that advertise a cure for reflux, claiming

some

> simple grocery items in the home will get rid of/cure reflux. Are

they

> just false? as it seems you have to part with money to be able to

get

> access to their recommendations. Any experiences of these anyone?

>

> emily

>

>

>

>

> >

> > was dx as a baby that the flap[don't know the medical word]

was

> not

> > closing and so letting food back up, they wanted him to have an

op at

> the RF, we

> > refused as he was so premmie and there was a high percentage of

cases

> where

> > it righted itself in time, this may be why he still has some

reflux,

> but I am

> > only guessing because interventions have reduced it at least 75%.

> > Vicky

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I think though Darla it starts with food in many cases because the constant bringing up of food weakens the flap and so it becomes a bigger problem.

The reflux diet mostly is about avoidance of fatty food, fried food, onions, citrus fruits, tomatoes and others but when I find the link to advice and recipes I will post it here, think I may have done this already not so long ago.

There are differences in individuals though, lots of people advise carbs and starches to soak up excess acid but in s case these make matters worse because they are so hard to digest, not to say they wont work for someone else, but again mindful of this being an autism list and the problems many have with carbs it wouldn't be something I would suggest.

's started with projectile vomitting as a baby and was dx with the flap problem, but milk is a no no if you suffer from reflux despite the fact that many people still think a sip of milk will cool the heartburn [which it does initially].

was on formula as a baby but milk has been a big problem right up till present day, including Soya so not sure how far this problem extends.

Vicky

[Guest guest]

Sorry, I'm confused - doesn't ALL reflux (no matter what the aetiology) come down to a malfunctioning flap? Gastric reflux (there is also urinary reflux) comes down to two factors - a malfunctioning flap (allowing the contents of the stomach to go back up into the esophagus and mouth and sometimes Eustachian tubes, lungs, etc) and the consequent stomach acid burning the tissues on which it was never physiologically meant to come into contact (the esophagus, mouth, ears, sometimes lungs, etc).

There is, of course, the issue of diminished gastric mobility which means the contents of the stomach remain in the stomach for too long and forces the flap open and the acid goes into the esophagus. So I guess this technically could mean the flap is functioning properly but the pressure from undigested food forces it to malfunction. But it is the acid, in both cases which causes the problem - the burning, etc. Right?

When was put on Omeprazole he still had food coming back up into his esophagus and mouth but it had so much less acid in it that it did not hurt as much.

There are a lot of things that can cause both the malfunctioning flap and the delayed gastric emptying so therefore, lots of causes (such as the delayed gastric emptying caused by the residual effects of a gastric bug, diet, alcohol relaxing the muscle, thyroyid problems) of reflux.

Is there some other function that happens that I don't understand? I'd like to know because we are still both fighting reflux.

Thanks,

Darla x

2009/2/7 Neno/Natasa

Reflux also can be purely mechanical, not linked to acid at all. there was a paper on it posted here last week, it was discussing how reflux was caused by malfunctioning thyroid, and how this seemed to happen because thyroid was 'sending wrong signals' to the muscles of esoph, which then contracted more than they should, causing reflux.

natasa

I think all reflux is not the same!We buy Thorne Research B and B from Nutricentre.I should have added, sorry, that Tom's reflux was not serious, I believe.SaraDarla wrote:

>> Yes, I've heard this before in Natasha do-dah's book (what's her > name?) Where did you buy the B and P Sara? I tried the vinegar, > lemon thingy (to give more acid) and it just made me so much worse so

> I didn't try it with . D x>> 2009/2/6 Sara Moroza- <Moroza-@... <mailto:Moroza-%40tiscali.co.uk>

> <mailto:Moroza-@... <mailto:Moroza-%40tiscali.co.uk> >>

>> Can I add as well please that sometimes reflux is caused by> insuffiecient stomach acid and that the use of antacids and> anti-reflux> drugs will exacerbate the situation. Tom had reflux and we seem to

> have> cured it by giving Betaine and Pepsin before every meal. B and P> encourages stomach acid production. My husband has also cured his> reflux> with B and P and now so has Tom's therapist. Pretty impressive, I

> think.> Sara>> Darla wrote:> > Hi,> > Just to let you know, it is not excess acid that is causing the> reflux> > and excess acid won't cause a stomach ulcer. A stomach ulcer is

> > caused by the lining of the stomach being somehow compromised (by a> > bacteria, spicy food, NSAIDs) and the acid coming into contact with> > the unlined stomach tissue. This can happen even with low levels of

> > stomach acid. The reflux is simply (what could be normal levels of> > acid) coming back up into the esophagus. I experience mine as> stomach> > pain (and it is bloody bloody painful) but it is actually in the

> > esophagus.> >> > You may be able to get a prescription for Omeprazole which can> inhibit> > the production of stomach acid. It is a short-acting medication so

> > your daughter would have immediate relief. It did help for a> > long time and it helped me as well but then it started giving me> > horrible stomach aches when I was on it long term. I find that

> taking> > it intermittently helps me.> >> > Another thing, when my reflux is bad any NSAID causes me> horrible pain> > and I find exactly the same with . So try to restrict your

> use of> > neurofen if you can.> >> > Anyway, hope I'm not patronising you by telling you all this...> > Take care,> > Darla x> >

> >> >> > 2009/2/6 clebutterfly2 <clebutterfly2@... <mailto:clebutterfly2%40btinternet.com>

> <mailto:clebutterfly2%40btinternet.com>> > <mailto:clebutterfly2@... <mailto:clebutterfly2%40btinternet.com>

> <mailto:clebutterfly2%40btinternet.com>>>> >> > Vicky,> >> > My daughter cannot swallow capsules - could I open the ZyCarb and

> > mis it with a little pear puree ? She already takes the 3 Houston> > enzymes before meals in this form - is there something different in> > the ZyCarb that specifically targets the acid do you think?

> >> > Also, do you think I'm panicking too much about the possibility of a> > stomach ulcer ? I just worry about that acid floating about her> > body.> >

> > > > >> > > I agree with Darla about the Zycarb, has made a lot of difference

> > to s> > > reflux, still there from time to time but nothing like before.> > > Vit C is not tolerated at all by , maybe it makes his reflux> > worse,

> > > never considered that before.> > > Vicky> > >> >> >> >>>>

[Guest guest]

Sorry, I'm confused - doesn't ALL reflux (no matter what the aetiology) come down to a malfunctioning flap? Gastric reflux (there is also urinary reflux) comes down to two factors - a malfunctioning flap (allowing the contents of the stomach to go back up into the esophagus and mouth and sometimes Eustachian tubes, lungs, etc) and the consequent stomach acid burning the tissues on which it was never physiologically meant to come into contact (the esophagus, mouth, ears, sometimes lungs, etc).

There is, of course, the issue of diminished gastric mobility which means the contents of the stomach remain in the stomach for too long and forces the flap open and the acid goes into the esophagus. So I guess this technically could mean the flap is functioning properly but the pressure from undigested food forces it to malfunction. But it is the acid, in both cases which causes the problem - the burning, etc. Right?

When was put on Omeprazole he still had food coming back up into his esophagus and mouth but it had so much less acid in it that it did not hurt as much.

There are a lot of things that can cause both the malfunctioning flap and the delayed gastric emptying so therefore, lots of causes (such as the delayed gastric emptying caused by the residual effects of a gastric bug, diet, alcohol relaxing the muscle, thyroyid problems) of reflux.

Is there some other function that happens that I don't understand? I'd like to know because we are still both fighting reflux.

Thanks,

Darla x

2009/2/7 Neno/Natasa

Reflux also can be purely mechanical, not linked to acid at all. there was a paper on it posted here last week, it was discussing how reflux was caused by malfunctioning thyroid, and how this seemed to happen because thyroid was 'sending wrong signals' to the muscles of esoph, which then contracted more than they should, causing reflux.

natasa

I think all reflux is not the same!We buy Thorne Research B and B from Nutricentre.I should have added, sorry, that Tom's reflux was not serious, I believe.SaraDarla wrote:

>> Yes, I've heard this before in Natasha do-dah's book (what's her > name?) Where did you buy the B and P Sara? I tried the vinegar, > lemon thingy (to give more acid) and it just made me so much worse so

> I didn't try it with . D x>> 2009/2/6 Sara Moroza- <Moroza-@... <mailto:Moroza-%40tiscali.co.uk>

> <mailto:Moroza-@... <mailto:Moroza-%40tiscali.co.uk> >>

>> Can I add as well please that sometimes reflux is caused by> insuffiecient stomach acid and that the use of antacids and> anti-reflux> drugs will exacerbate the situation. Tom had reflux and we seem to

> have> cured it by giving Betaine and Pepsin before every meal. B and P> encourages stomach acid production. My husband has also cured his> reflux> with B and P and now so has Tom's therapist. Pretty impressive, I

> think.> Sara>> Darla wrote:> > Hi,> > Just to let you know, it is not excess acid that is causing the> reflux> > and excess acid won't cause a stomach ulcer. A stomach ulcer is

> > caused by the lining of the stomach being somehow compromised (by a> > bacteria, spicy food, NSAIDs) and the acid coming into contact with> > the unlined stomach tissue. This can happen even with low levels of

> > stomach acid. The reflux is simply (what could be normal levels of> > acid) coming back up into the esophagus. I experience mine as> stomach> > pain (and it is bloody bloody painful) but it is actually in the

> > esophagus.> >> > You may be able to get a prescription for Omeprazole which can> inhibit> > the production of stomach acid. It is a short-acting medication so

> > your daughter would have immediate relief. It did help for a> > long time and it helped me as well but then it started giving me> > horrible stomach aches when I was on it long term. I find that

> taking> > it intermittently helps me.> >> > Another thing, when my reflux is bad any NSAID causes me> horrible pain> > and I find exactly the same with . So try to restrict your

> use of> > neurofen if you can.> >> > Anyway, hope I'm not patronising you by telling you all this...> > Take care,> > Darla x> >

> >> >> > 2009/2/6 clebutterfly2 <clebutterfly2@... <mailto:clebutterfly2%40btinternet.com>

> <mailto:clebutterfly2%40btinternet.com>> > <mailto:clebutterfly2@... <mailto:clebutterfly2%40btinternet.com>

> <mailto:clebutterfly2%40btinternet.com>>>> >> > Vicky,> >> > My daughter cannot swallow capsules - could I open the ZyCarb and

> > mis it with a little pear puree ? She already takes the 3 Houston> > enzymes before meals in this form - is there something different in> > the ZyCarb that specifically targets the acid do you think?

> >> > Also, do you think I'm panicking too much about the possibility of a> > stomach ulcer ? I just worry about that acid floating about her> > body.> >

> > > > >> > > I agree with Darla about the Zycarb, has made a lot of difference

> > to s> > > reflux, still there from time to time but nothing like before.> > > Vit C is not tolerated at all by , maybe it makes his reflux> > worse,

> > > never considered that before.> > > Vicky> > >> >> >> >>>>

[Guest guest]

Sorry, I'm confused - doesn't ALL reflux (no matter what the aetiology) come down to a malfunctioning flap? Gastric reflux (there is also urinary reflux) comes down to two factors - a malfunctioning flap (allowing the contents of the stomach to go back up into the esophagus and mouth and sometimes Eustachian tubes, lungs, etc) and the consequent stomach acid burning the tissues on which it was never physiologically meant to come into contact (the esophagus, mouth, ears, sometimes lungs, etc).

There is, of course, the issue of diminished gastric mobility which means the contents of the stomach remain in the stomach for too long and forces the flap open and the acid goes into the esophagus. So I guess this technically could mean the flap is functioning properly but the pressure from undigested food forces it to malfunction. But it is the acid, in both cases which causes the problem - the burning, etc. Right?

When was put on Omeprazole he still had food coming back up into his esophagus and mouth but it had so much less acid in it that it did not hurt as much.

There are a lot of things that can cause both the malfunctioning flap and the delayed gastric emptying so therefore, lots of causes (such as the delayed gastric emptying caused by the residual effects of a gastric bug, diet, alcohol relaxing the muscle, thyroyid problems) of reflux.

Is there some other function that happens that I don't understand? I'd like to know because we are still both fighting reflux.

Thanks,

Darla x

2009/2/7 Neno/Natasa

Reflux also can be purely mechanical, not linked to acid at all. there was a paper on it posted here last week, it was discussing how reflux was caused by malfunctioning thyroid, and how this seemed to happen because thyroid was 'sending wrong signals' to the muscles of esoph, which then contracted more than they should, causing reflux.

natasa

I think all reflux is not the same!We buy Thorne Research B and B from Nutricentre.I should have added, sorry, that Tom's reflux was not serious, I believe.SaraDarla wrote:

>> Yes, I've heard this before in Natasha do-dah's book (what's her > name?) Where did you buy the B and P Sara? I tried the vinegar, > lemon thingy (to give more acid) and it just made me so much worse so

> I didn't try it with . D x>> 2009/2/6 Sara Moroza- <Moroza-@... <mailto:Moroza-%40tiscali.co.uk>

> <mailto:Moroza-@... <mailto:Moroza-%40tiscali.co.uk> >>

>> Can I add as well please that sometimes reflux is caused by> insuffiecient stomach acid and that the use of antacids and> anti-reflux> drugs will exacerbate the situation. Tom had reflux and we seem to

> have> cured it by giving Betaine and Pepsin before every meal. B and P> encourages stomach acid production. My husband has also cured his> reflux> with B and P and now so has Tom's therapist. Pretty impressive, I

> think.> Sara>> Darla wrote:> > Hi,> > Just to let you know, it is not excess acid that is causing the> reflux> > and excess acid won't cause a stomach ulcer. A stomach ulcer is

> > caused by the lining of the stomach being somehow compromised (by a> > bacteria, spicy food, NSAIDs) and the acid coming into contact with> > the unlined stomach tissue. This can happen even with low levels of

> > stomach acid. The reflux is simply (what could be normal levels of> > acid) coming back up into the esophagus. I experience mine as> stomach> > pain (and it is bloody bloody painful) but it is actually in the

> > esophagus.> >> > You may be able to get a prescription for Omeprazole which can> inhibit> > the production of stomach acid. It is a short-acting medication so

> > your daughter would have immediate relief. It did help for a> > long time and it helped me as well but then it started giving me> > horrible stomach aches when I was on it long term. I find that

> taking> > it intermittently helps me.> >> > Another thing, when my reflux is bad any NSAID causes me> horrible pain> > and I find exactly the same with . So try to restrict your

> use of> > neurofen if you can.> >> > Anyway, hope I'm not patronising you by telling you all this...> > Take care,> > Darla x> >

> >> >> > 2009/2/6 clebutterfly2 <clebutterfly2@... <mailto:clebutterfly2%40btinternet.com>

> <mailto:clebutterfly2%40btinternet.com>> > <mailto:clebutterfly2@... <mailto:clebutterfly2%40btinternet.com>

> <mailto:clebutterfly2%40btinternet.com>>>> >> > Vicky,> >> > My daughter cannot swallow capsules - could I open the ZyCarb and

> > mis it with a little pear puree ? She already takes the 3 Houston> > enzymes before meals in this form - is there something different in> > the ZyCarb that specifically targets the acid do you think?

> >> > Also, do you think I'm panicking too much about the possibility of a> > stomach ulcer ? I just worry about that acid floating about her> > body.> >

> > > > >> > > I agree with Darla about the Zycarb, has made a lot of difference

> > to s> > > reflux, still there from time to time but nothing like before.> > > Vit C is not tolerated at all by , maybe it makes his reflux> > worse,

> > > never considered that before.> > > Vicky> > >> >> >> >>>>

[Guest guest]

,

The only long term side-effect that I ever remember reading about from Omeprazole was pathogenic bacterial overgrowth in the stomach (obviously stopping all the acid production to the stomach will alter the bacterial balance in the gut). This overgrowth, however, seems to be reversible once the medication is stopped and can also be treated using antibiotics.

Our son was on 20 mgs of Omeprazole from 4 MONTHS old until 4 years old (can't exactly remember when we stopped it) and showed no permanent side effects of having been on it. It was, like Celia, the only medication that actually worked for him, it was either that or a feeding tube because he was so food aversive due to the pain following eating. Now that he's bigger he still has reflux but it is usually caused by obvious reasons (such as gorging himself before going to bed, viruses, colds, etc).

Also, when he stopped the Omeprazole, he made a huge developmental leap. I had thought it had somewhat of a sedating effect on him but we just didn't have any choice. It's not a horrible medicine, it's not the greatest choice but the pain from reflux and associated risks of long term reflux being untreated are very severe and the medication seemed to us to be the lesser of the evils.

Best wishes,

Darla

2009/2/7 Scorer

Sorry for jumping in here, I'm also be interested in looking at thereflux diet you mentioned earlier Vicky.I do worry if there are negative effects with long term use ofOmeprazole. Haven't tried the HNI Zycarb, I'll definitely give it a

try.Also there's websites that advertise a cure for reflux, claiming somesimple grocery items in the home will get rid of/cure reflux. Are theyjust false? as it seems you have to part with money to be able to get

access to their recommendations. Any experiences of these anyone?emily >> was dx as a baby that the flap[don't know the medical word] was

not> closing and so letting food back up, they wanted him to have an op atthe RF, we> refused as he was so premmie and there was a high percentage of caseswhere> it righted itself in time, this may be why he still has some reflux,

but I am> only guessing because interventions have reduced it at least 75%.> Vicky>

[Guest guest]

Celia and Darla, thank you so much for your replies. I'm sad to hear about the pain that Adam and all our kids have to endure, sometimes in silence. I've seen and share your experiences on how awful this reflux thing is. In our case the omeprazole has helped but has not totally controlled it and my suspicion is that this contributes to ds's sleep problems. When do you give the Omeprazole, is it before or after a meal?

My worries about the long term use arose from reading up somewhere that it could

"cause the body to produce an extra amount of the hormone called gastrin. Gastrin is the substance that tells your stomach to make more acid. There are gastrin receptors on the esophageal, pancreatic, and gastric cancer cells, and over-production of gastrin can cause these cancer cells to grow too large, thus greatly increasing the risk of getting cancer in these areas."

I'm not sure on the accuracy of this but obviously first and foremost the reflux has to be treated before worrying about this and I'm glad to hear from you both, that you have not had long term adverse effects.

I've also come across mention of PPI's (can't remember if it was just Omeprazole) affecting absorption of Vit B12 and that treatment with PPI's in severely affected children requires checking Vit B12 levels.

Celia, the Nissen sounds very positive and life changing hope it all goes well with the gastroscopy at GOS and Adam gets the Nissen redone. So sorry to hear about the continuing LA battles, very sad to hear that 3yrs and nothing being done.

emily x

> > >> > > was dx as a baby that the flap[don't know the medical word] > was> > not> > > closing and so letting food back up, they wanted him to have an > op at> > the RF, we> > > refused as he was so premmie and there was a high percentage of > cases> > where> > > it righted itself in time, this may be why he still has some > reflux,> > but I am> > > only guessing because interventions have reduced it at least 75%.> > > Vicky> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Just one further point on this - given 's recent GI problems, the paediatric gastronenterologist has referred him for further blood tests, interestingly, one that he specifically requested was B12. We haven't actually seen the Paed GI yet so I don't know why this was requested but it would be interesting to know if it was due to long term use of PPI. (He also has low ferritin levels and is going to be tested for coeliac, folate, coagulation problems and FBC, etc.)

anyway, will let you know if it is of any relevance.

Darla

2009/2/9 Scorer

Celia and Darla, thank you so much for your replies. I'm sad to hear about the pain that Adam and all our kids have to endure, sometimes in silence. I've seen and share your experiences on how awful this reflux thing is. In our case the omeprazole has helped but has not totally controlled it and my suspicion is that this contributes to ds's sleep problems. When do you give the Omeprazole, is it before or after a meal?

My worries about the long term use arose from reading up somewhere that it could

" cause the body to produce an extra amount of the hormone called gastrin. Gastrin is the substance that tells your stomach to make more acid. There are gastrin receptors on the esophageal, pancreatic, and gastric cancer cells, and over-production of gastrin can cause these cancer cells to grow too large, thus greatly increasing the risk of getting cancer in these areas. "

I'm not sure on the accuracy of this but obviously first and foremost the reflux has to be treated before worrying about this and I'm glad to hear from you both, that you have not had long term adverse effects.

I've also come across mention of PPI's (can't remember if it was just Omeprazole) affecting absorption of Vit B12 and that treatment with PPI's in severely affected children requires checking Vit B12 levels.

Celia, the Nissen sounds very positive and life changing hope it all goes well with the gastroscopy at GOS and Adam gets the Nissen redone. So sorry to hear about the continuing LA battles, very sad to hear that 3yrs and nothing being done.

emily x

> > >> > > was dx as a baby that the flap[don't know the medical word]

> was> > not> > > closing and so letting food back up, they wanted him to have an > op at> > the RF, we> > > refused as he was so premmie and there was a high percentage of

> cases> > where> > > it righted itself in time, this may be why he still has some > reflux,> > but I am> > > only guessing because interventions have reduced it at least 75%.

> > > Vicky> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Just one further point on this - given 's recent GI problems, the paediatric gastronenterologist has referred him for further blood tests, interestingly, one that he specifically requested was B12. We haven't actually seen the Paed GI yet so I don't know why this was requested but it would be interesting to know if it was due to long term use of PPI. (He also has low ferritin levels and is going to be tested for coeliac, folate, coagulation problems and FBC, etc.)

anyway, will let you know if it is of any relevance.

Darla

2009/2/9 Scorer

Celia and Darla, thank you so much for your replies. I'm sad to hear about the pain that Adam and all our kids have to endure, sometimes in silence. I've seen and share your experiences on how awful this reflux thing is. In our case the omeprazole has helped but has not totally controlled it and my suspicion is that this contributes to ds's sleep problems. When do you give the Omeprazole, is it before or after a meal?

My worries about the long term use arose from reading up somewhere that it could

" cause the body to produce an extra amount of the hormone called gastrin. Gastrin is the substance that tells your stomach to make more acid. There are gastrin receptors on the esophageal, pancreatic, and gastric cancer cells, and over-production of gastrin can cause these cancer cells to grow too large, thus greatly increasing the risk of getting cancer in these areas. "

I'm not sure on the accuracy of this but obviously first and foremost the reflux has to be treated before worrying about this and I'm glad to hear from you both, that you have not had long term adverse effects.

I've also come across mention of PPI's (can't remember if it was just Omeprazole) affecting absorption of Vit B12 and that treatment with PPI's in severely affected children requires checking Vit B12 levels.

Celia, the Nissen sounds very positive and life changing hope it all goes well with the gastroscopy at GOS and Adam gets the Nissen redone. So sorry to hear about the continuing LA battles, very sad to hear that 3yrs and nothing being done.

emily x

> > >> > > was dx as a baby that the flap[don't know the medical word]

> was> > not> > > closing and so letting food back up, they wanted him to have an > op at> > the RF, we> > > refused as he was so premmie and there was a high percentage of

> cases> > where> > > it righted itself in time, this may be why he still has some > reflux,> > but I am> > > only guessing because interventions have reduced it at least 75%.

> > > Vicky> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Just one further point on this - given 's recent GI problems, the paediatric gastronenterologist has referred him for further blood tests, interestingly, one that he specifically requested was B12. We haven't actually seen the Paed GI yet so I don't know why this was requested but it would be interesting to know if it was due to long term use of PPI. (He also has low ferritin levels and is going to be tested for coeliac, folate, coagulation problems and FBC, etc.)

anyway, will let you know if it is of any relevance.

Darla

2009/2/9 Scorer

Celia and Darla, thank you so much for your replies. I'm sad to hear about the pain that Adam and all our kids have to endure, sometimes in silence. I've seen and share your experiences on how awful this reflux thing is. In our case the omeprazole has helped but has not totally controlled it and my suspicion is that this contributes to ds's sleep problems. When do you give the Omeprazole, is it before or after a meal?

My worries about the long term use arose from reading up somewhere that it could

" cause the body to produce an extra amount of the hormone called gastrin. Gastrin is the substance that tells your stomach to make more acid. There are gastrin receptors on the esophageal, pancreatic, and gastric cancer cells, and over-production of gastrin can cause these cancer cells to grow too large, thus greatly increasing the risk of getting cancer in these areas. "

I'm not sure on the accuracy of this but obviously first and foremost the reflux has to be treated before worrying about this and I'm glad to hear from you both, that you have not had long term adverse effects.

I've also come across mention of PPI's (can't remember if it was just Omeprazole) affecting absorption of Vit B12 and that treatment with PPI's in severely affected children requires checking Vit B12 levels.

Celia, the Nissen sounds very positive and life changing hope it all goes well with the gastroscopy at GOS and Adam gets the Nissen redone. So sorry to hear about the continuing LA battles, very sad to hear that 3yrs and nothing being done.

emily x

> > >> > > was dx as a baby that the flap[don't know the medical word]

> was> > not> > > closing and so letting food back up, they wanted him to have an > op at> > the RF, we> > > refused as he was so premmie and there was a high percentage of

> cases> > where> > > it righted itself in time, this may be why he still has some > reflux,> > but I am> > > only guessing because interventions have reduced it at least 75%.

> > > Vicky> > >> >>