Guest guest Posted October 7, 2006 Report Share Posted October 7, 2006 Hi, I have a Kobucha brew going and my culture seems ok. But it has been over a week and the smell is kind of like rotting citrus but it hasn't gotten any worse. However, there is no new baby forming, just little spots of it on the surface. Can anyone tell me what's going on? Nessa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Liz,When I do this type of training I use audio and tactile feedback while the client is engaged in the other activity. I had one client who had excessive parietal alpha with visual tasks. I had him looking at I Spy and Where's Waldo books while training alpha down at p3 and p4. Hidden picture puzzles from kids magazines are great as well. I have a few small puzzles that need minor manipulation to solve. I have used those for kids with frustration tolerance and attention issues. I generally do the tasks that seem matched to a problem a client has while training the indicated sites, I know that Marvin Sams has many of his clients play Tetris during session while receiving audio feedback. georgemartin@...www.northstarneurofeedback.com Hi, I'm very curious about how you relate the games to the areas of thebrain and also to the actual neurofeedback.I can understand that if you want to train certain areas, say, up, youwould give tasks that use those areas of the brain. But then theneurofeedback itself is also training that area of the brain, right?So...I'm a little confused, in that you are now giving the person twosets of feedback simultaneously, right? the feedback from yourneurofeedback machine (like the tone, if you're just doing audio) andthe feedback from the, e.g., Nintendo DS). Do you connect those in anyway, or are you just doing that to sort of "activate" or "focus" thebrain more in that area? I am probably overthinking this? Also I guess you would not give gamesif you are trying to increase the brain's ability to relax, decreaseanxiety, etc.?thanks (post about using handheld devices etc. for games and tasks while training with just audio feedback)------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Liz,When I do this type of training I use audio and tactile feedback while the client is engaged in the other activity. I had one client who had excessive parietal alpha with visual tasks. I had him looking at I Spy and Where's Waldo books while training alpha down at p3 and p4. Hidden picture puzzles from kids magazines are great as well. I have a few small puzzles that need minor manipulation to solve. I have used those for kids with frustration tolerance and attention issues. I generally do the tasks that seem matched to a problem a client has while training the indicated sites, I know that Marvin Sams has many of his clients play Tetris during session while receiving audio feedback. georgemartin@...www.northstarneurofeedback.com Hi, I'm very curious about how you relate the games to the areas of thebrain and also to the actual neurofeedback.I can understand that if you want to train certain areas, say, up, youwould give tasks that use those areas of the brain. But then theneurofeedback itself is also training that area of the brain, right?So...I'm a little confused, in that you are now giving the person twosets of feedback simultaneously, right? the feedback from yourneurofeedback machine (like the tone, if you're just doing audio) andthe feedback from the, e.g., Nintendo DS). Do you connect those in anyway, or are you just doing that to sort of "activate" or "focus" thebrain more in that area? I am probably overthinking this? Also I guess you would not give gamesif you are trying to increase the brain's ability to relax, decreaseanxiety, etc.?thanks (post about using handheld devices etc. for games and tasks while training with just audio feedback)------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Liz,When I do this type of training I use audio and tactile feedback while the client is engaged in the other activity. I had one client who had excessive parietal alpha with visual tasks. I had him looking at I Spy and Where's Waldo books while training alpha down at p3 and p4. Hidden picture puzzles from kids magazines are great as well. I have a few small puzzles that need minor manipulation to solve. I have used those for kids with frustration tolerance and attention issues. I generally do the tasks that seem matched to a problem a client has while training the indicated sites, I know that Marvin Sams has many of his clients play Tetris during session while receiving audio feedback. georgemartin@...www.northstarneurofeedback.com Hi, I'm very curious about how you relate the games to the areas of thebrain and also to the actual neurofeedback.I can understand that if you want to train certain areas, say, up, youwould give tasks that use those areas of the brain. But then theneurofeedback itself is also training that area of the brain, right?So...I'm a little confused, in that you are now giving the person twosets of feedback simultaneously, right? the feedback from yourneurofeedback machine (like the tone, if you're just doing audio) andthe feedback from the, e.g., Nintendo DS). Do you connect those in anyway, or are you just doing that to sort of "activate" or "focus" thebrain more in that area? I am probably overthinking this? Also I guess you would not give gamesif you are trying to increase the brain's ability to relax, decreaseanxiety, etc.?thanks (post about using handheld devices etc. for games and tasks while training with just audio feedback)------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 I thought that, while the client is not " trying " to achieve a goal during neurofeedback, s/he is supposed to be paying attention. So I'm wondering what the effects are of splitting that attention. Or do you not concern yourself at all with attention to the neurofeedback stimuli? thanks liz > >> > >> (post about using handheld devices etc. for games and tasks while > > training with just audio feedback) > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 I thought that, while the client is not " trying " to achieve a goal during neurofeedback, s/he is supposed to be paying attention. So I'm wondering what the effects are of splitting that attention. Or do you not concern yourself at all with attention to the neurofeedback stimuli? thanks liz > >> > >> (post about using handheld devices etc. for games and tasks while > > training with just audio feedback) > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 I thought that, while the client is not " trying " to achieve a goal during neurofeedback, s/he is supposed to be paying attention. So I'm wondering what the effects are of splitting that attention. Or do you not concern yourself at all with attention to the neurofeedback stimuli? thanks liz > >> > >> (post about using handheld devices etc. for games and tasks while > > training with just audio feedback) > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Shirley, , etc. How do you have the client read or do games, etc. without having artifact? Do you just not worry about it and the training will take care of itself? --Melody King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Shirley, , etc. How do you have the client read or do games, etc. without having artifact? Do you just not worry about it and the training will take care of itself? --Melody King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Hi Liz, this is Connie This is off topic a bit but I only trained my son for 10 minutes 2 times a week for about 40 sessions and he has greatly improved. I trained him with very uninteresting feedback but for 10 minutes it was ok. After getting the correct protocol, he never had a late assignment. His grades have improved greatly and he is much more involved with other kids. It does not have to be much to work. Also, once he sees the improvement, he may keep coming. When we were trying to find the correct protocol, one was good for school but he could not sleep. We changed the protocol to help for sleep and the school benefit went away. He was so upset that he told me, “I don’t need to sleep anyway.” We were able to get one that helped with sleep and with school and we were on our way. He did come to me when he was very upset about something and said he needed help with depression and was willing to do another round but felt better and did not want to do it anymore. You may not have an issue. From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf Of lizmargoshes Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 3:04 PM To: braintrainer Subject: Re:need advice OK, so...if the client is playing a game that has audio involved, the tone, let's say, from the neurofeedback will still " get through " in some way? I'm presuming here that it would NOT be a wonderful idea to train my 15-year-old son while he is playing Grand Theft Auto IV, correct? Because I think the stimuli of the game would totally overwhelm the little tone of the neurofeedback software. (not to mention the other aspects of the game...) How do you deal with the two auditory " tracks " , that of the NFB and that of the game? Sorry to ask for such literal and specific advice -- I'd like to present NFB to my son in as palatable a form as possible. So far I have been training my husband (my first " customer " ), who is not nearly as, um, demanding. It sounds very interesting, to be able to present a game, say, for the DS, which my son owns, as an incentive to do the neurofeedback. I imagine my son (with ADHD and other issues, including Adolescence)will become bored with the single task involved on the neurofeedback screens. He'd definitely do it once for novelty's sake, but then I foresee an uphill battle to get him to come back for more training. If he were to do the training with an accompanying game, that would be a completely different animal! THANKS Liz > >>>> > >>>> (post about using handheld devices etc. for games and tasks while > >>> training with just audio feedback) > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Hi Liz, this is Connie This is off topic a bit but I only trained my son for 10 minutes 2 times a week for about 40 sessions and he has greatly improved. I trained him with very uninteresting feedback but for 10 minutes it was ok. After getting the correct protocol, he never had a late assignment. His grades have improved greatly and he is much more involved with other kids. It does not have to be much to work. Also, once he sees the improvement, he may keep coming. When we were trying to find the correct protocol, one was good for school but he could not sleep. We changed the protocol to help for sleep and the school benefit went away. He was so upset that he told me, “I don’t need to sleep anyway.” We were able to get one that helped with sleep and with school and we were on our way. He did come to me when he was very upset about something and said he needed help with depression and was willing to do another round but felt better and did not want to do it anymore. You may not have an issue. From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf Of lizmargoshes Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 3:04 PM To: braintrainer Subject: Re:need advice OK, so...if the client is playing a game that has audio involved, the tone, let's say, from the neurofeedback will still " get through " in some way? I'm presuming here that it would NOT be a wonderful idea to train my 15-year-old son while he is playing Grand Theft Auto IV, correct? Because I think the stimuli of the game would totally overwhelm the little tone of the neurofeedback software. (not to mention the other aspects of the game...) How do you deal with the two auditory " tracks " , that of the NFB and that of the game? Sorry to ask for such literal and specific advice -- I'd like to present NFB to my son in as palatable a form as possible. So far I have been training my husband (my first " customer " ), who is not nearly as, um, demanding. It sounds very interesting, to be able to present a game, say, for the DS, which my son owns, as an incentive to do the neurofeedback. I imagine my son (with ADHD and other issues, including Adolescence)will become bored with the single task involved on the neurofeedback screens. He'd definitely do it once for novelty's sake, but then I foresee an uphill battle to get him to come back for more training. If he were to do the training with an accompanying game, that would be a completely different animal! THANKS Liz > >>>> > >>>> (post about using handheld devices etc. for games and tasks while > >>> training with just audio feedback) > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Connie What were the different protocols you used and what ones did you find efective? Mark RE: Re:need advice Hi Liz, this is Connie This is off topic a bit but I only trained my son for 10 minutes 2 times a week for about 40 sessions and he has greatly improved. I trained him with very uninteresting feedback but for 10 minutes it was ok. After getting the correct protocol, he never had a late assignment. His grades have improved greatly and he is much more involved with other kids. It does not have to be much to work. Also, once he sees the improvement, he may keep coming. When we were trying to find the correct protocol, one was good for school but he could not sleep. We changed the protocol to help for sleep and the school benefit went away. He was so upset that he told me, “I don’t need to sleep anyway.” We were able to get one that helped with sleep and with school and we were on our way. He did come to me when he was very upset about something and said he needed help with depression and was willing to do another round but felt better and did not want to do it anymore. You may not have an issue. From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf Of lizmargoshesSent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 3:04 PMTo: braintrainer Subject: Re:need advice OK, so...if the client is playing a game that has audio involved, thetone, let's say, from the neurofeedback will still "get through" insome way?I'm presuming here that it would NOT be a wonderful idea to train my15-year-old son while he is playing Grand Theft Auto IV, correct?Because I think the stimuli of the game would totally overwhelm thelittle tone of the neurofeedback software. (not to mention the otheraspects of the game...)How do you deal with the two auditory "tracks", that of the NFB andthat of the game? Sorry to ask for such literal and specific advice -- I'd like topresent NFB to my son in as palatable a form as possible. So far Ihave been training my husband (my first "customer"), who is not nearlyas, um, demanding. It sounds very interesting, to be able to present agame, say, for the DS, which my son owns, as an incentive to do theneurofeedback. I imagine my son (with ADHD and other issues, includingAdolescence)will become bored with the single task involved on theneurofeedback screens. He'd definitely do it once for novelty's sake,but then I foresee an uphill battle to get him to come back for moretraining. If he were to do the training with an accompanying game,that would be a completely different animal!THANKSLiz> >>>>> >>>> (post about using handheld devices etc. for games and tasks while> >>> training with just audio feedback)> >>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------> >>>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Connie What were the different protocols you used and what ones did you find efective? Mark RE: Re:need advice Hi Liz, this is Connie This is off topic a bit but I only trained my son for 10 minutes 2 times a week for about 40 sessions and he has greatly improved. I trained him with very uninteresting feedback but for 10 minutes it was ok. After getting the correct protocol, he never had a late assignment. His grades have improved greatly and he is much more involved with other kids. It does not have to be much to work. Also, once he sees the improvement, he may keep coming. When we were trying to find the correct protocol, one was good for school but he could not sleep. We changed the protocol to help for sleep and the school benefit went away. He was so upset that he told me, “I don’t need to sleep anyway.” We were able to get one that helped with sleep and with school and we were on our way. He did come to me when he was very upset about something and said he needed help with depression and was willing to do another round but felt better and did not want to do it anymore. You may not have an issue. From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf Of lizmargoshesSent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 3:04 PMTo: braintrainer Subject: Re:need advice OK, so...if the client is playing a game that has audio involved, thetone, let's say, from the neurofeedback will still "get through" insome way?I'm presuming here that it would NOT be a wonderful idea to train my15-year-old son while he is playing Grand Theft Auto IV, correct?Because I think the stimuli of the game would totally overwhelm thelittle tone of the neurofeedback software. (not to mention the otheraspects of the game...)How do you deal with the two auditory "tracks", that of the NFB andthat of the game? Sorry to ask for such literal and specific advice -- I'd like topresent NFB to my son in as palatable a form as possible. So far Ihave been training my husband (my first "customer"), who is not nearlyas, um, demanding. It sounds very interesting, to be able to present agame, say, for the DS, which my son owns, as an incentive to do theneurofeedback. I imagine my son (with ADHD and other issues, includingAdolescence)will become bored with the single task involved on theneurofeedback screens. He'd definitely do it once for novelty's sake,but then I foresee an uphill battle to get him to come back for moretraining. If he were to do the training with an accompanying game,that would be a completely different animal!THANKSLiz> >>>>> >>>> (post about using handheld devices etc. for games and tasks while> >>> training with just audio feedback)> >>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------> >>>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Connie What were the different protocols you used and what ones did you find efective? Mark RE: Re:need advice Hi Liz, this is Connie This is off topic a bit but I only trained my son for 10 minutes 2 times a week for about 40 sessions and he has greatly improved. I trained him with very uninteresting feedback but for 10 minutes it was ok. After getting the correct protocol, he never had a late assignment. His grades have improved greatly and he is much more involved with other kids. It does not have to be much to work. Also, once he sees the improvement, he may keep coming. When we were trying to find the correct protocol, one was good for school but he could not sleep. We changed the protocol to help for sleep and the school benefit went away. He was so upset that he told me, “I don’t need to sleep anyway.” We were able to get one that helped with sleep and with school and we were on our way. He did come to me when he was very upset about something and said he needed help with depression and was willing to do another round but felt better and did not want to do it anymore. You may not have an issue. From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf Of lizmargoshesSent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 3:04 PMTo: braintrainer Subject: Re:need advice OK, so...if the client is playing a game that has audio involved, thetone, let's say, from the neurofeedback will still "get through" insome way?I'm presuming here that it would NOT be a wonderful idea to train my15-year-old son while he is playing Grand Theft Auto IV, correct?Because I think the stimuli of the game would totally overwhelm thelittle tone of the neurofeedback software. (not to mention the otheraspects of the game...)How do you deal with the two auditory "tracks", that of the NFB andthat of the game? Sorry to ask for such literal and specific advice -- I'd like topresent NFB to my son in as palatable a form as possible. So far Ihave been training my husband (my first "customer"), who is not nearlyas, um, demanding. It sounds very interesting, to be able to present agame, say, for the DS, which my son owns, as an incentive to do theneurofeedback. I imagine my son (with ADHD and other issues, includingAdolescence)will become bored with the single task involved on theneurofeedback screens. He'd definitely do it once for novelty's sake,but then I foresee an uphill battle to get him to come back for moretraining. If he were to do the training with an accompanying game,that would be a completely different animal!THANKSLiz> >>>>> >>>> (post about using handheld devices etc. for games and tasks while> >>> training with just audio feedback)> >>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------> >>>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 Oh how I hear ya!! I would get teased all the time when i first started NFB that if you come into my house don't sit down too long "She'll hook you up!" Well this is my esponse and this is just theory, so this is not the facts, you'lll have to ask Pete for that! Let's just say that your son plays Grand Theft Auto without the sound or the sound low. What does his brain do when he is on that game? Is it getting over stimulated? Is he producing ridiculous amounts of HiBeta or even large amplitudes of Theta. There is an incredible game in Europe. My dream game. There is a huge air hockey looking table with a puck in the middle and one person is at one end and the other at the other end of the table but instead of padddles they have electrodes on their head. They are sitting and they are getting rewarded for being calm, focused, probably lobeta would be my guess and their rewad is that the puck moves in the oponents direction. Did I also ad that there are tons of people around watching this whole event occur? So normally with this kind of pressure what would the brain do. Personally before NFb I don't know that I would have done so well. But because of the NFB now the people that play this can remain cool calm and collected and m ove the puck in the opposite direction. So back to the Grand Theft Auto - what do you want your son't braint to do while heis playing such a violent game? Do you want his brain to be in that HiBeta hypervigilant exciteable freaky place or would you like his brain to be in a cool calm collected place. How much more challenging could you get by giving the brain an objective like that. Okay one more point - When I first started NFb I use to use a headset on each person and would struggle terribly with the signal and interference, blah blah This woman said that she doesn't use the head sets. I said well I have multiple people inthe room how could that possibly work? Well the brain knows what signal it is producing. The brain is just amazing and it can determine what signal is its own. I have three people in my office most of the time all without headsets and I get wonderful results. Besides if you think about it if you are in the room and you are istening to the rewards that the other person is getting why aren't you walking around with a twitch!!!! I know I would be with all the Fb rewards I hear every day!!!!! ANd for that matter look at Pete, if his brain responded to all the rewards he has heard ov er theyears, well then maybe he would have been found with one of those cute little huggy jackets years ago!! Hope this helps rather than confuses more. BTW- I heard that Grand Theft Auto you get points for raping a woman and killing people very violently. Is this true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 Oh how I hear ya!! I would get teased all the time when i first started NFB that if you come into my house don't sit down too long "She'll hook you up!" Well this is my esponse and this is just theory, so this is not the facts, you'lll have to ask Pete for that! Let's just say that your son plays Grand Theft Auto without the sound or the sound low. What does his brain do when he is on that game? Is it getting over stimulated? Is he producing ridiculous amounts of HiBeta or even large amplitudes of Theta. There is an incredible game in Europe. My dream game. There is a huge air hockey looking table with a puck in the middle and one person is at one end and the other at the other end of the table but instead of padddles they have electrodes on their head. They are sitting and they are getting rewarded for being calm, focused, probably lobeta would be my guess and their rewad is that the puck moves in the oponents direction. Did I also ad that there are tons of people around watching this whole event occur? So normally with this kind of pressure what would the brain do. Personally before NFb I don't know that I would have done so well. But because of the NFB now the people that play this can remain cool calm and collected and m ove the puck in the opposite direction. So back to the Grand Theft Auto - what do you want your son't braint to do while heis playing such a violent game? Do you want his brain to be in that HiBeta hypervigilant exciteable freaky place or would you like his brain to be in a cool calm collected place. How much more challenging could you get by giving the brain an objective like that. Okay one more point - When I first started NFb I use to use a headset on each person and would struggle terribly with the signal and interference, blah blah This woman said that she doesn't use the head sets. I said well I have multiple people inthe room how could that possibly work? Well the brain knows what signal it is producing. The brain is just amazing and it can determine what signal is its own. I have three people in my office most of the time all without headsets and I get wonderful results. Besides if you think about it if you are in the room and you are istening to the rewards that the other person is getting why aren't you walking around with a twitch!!!! I know I would be with all the Fb rewards I hear every day!!!!! ANd for that matter look at Pete, if his brain responded to all the rewards he has heard ov er theyears, well then maybe he would have been found with one of those cute little huggy jackets years ago!! Hope this helps rather than confuses more. BTW- I heard that Grand Theft Auto you get points for raping a woman and killing people very violently. Is this true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 Melody I believe we are talking about games that are small, quiet and hand-held for the most part. Keep in mind nobody could ever sit so still that there is absolutely No artifact at all. In fact the first five minutes some of my youngest clients come in are some of the wiggliest (is that a word?) times. Then once the NFB kicks in they settle right down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 Melody I believe we are talking about games that are small, quiet and hand-held for the most part. Keep in mind nobody could ever sit so still that there is absolutely No artifact at all. In fact the first five minutes some of my youngest clients come in are some of the wiggliest (is that a word?) times. Then once the NFB kicks in they settle right down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 Sharrie, Thanks for your replies. This is very interesting. As for the rape in Grand Theft Auto, I will ask my son. I know there's violence. This probably sounds like b**sh*t but my son is a very empathic and insightful guy whom I don't see getting " into " the violence in a way that disturbs me. If it did I wouldn't permit it. His ADHD is the distractible type. Your comments about having the brain focused in a certain way while certain tasks are performed that might initially seem counterintuitive is fascinating and has given me a lot to think about! Connie, thank you also for your comment about the ten minutes twice a day. Liz > > Oh how I hear ya!! I would get teased all the time when i first started NFB that if you come into my house don't sit down too long " She'll hook you up! " > Well this is my esponse and this is just theory, so this is not the facts, you'lll have to ask Pete for that! > Let's just say that your son plays Grand Theft Auto without the sound or the sound low. What does his brain do when he is on that game? Is it getting over stimulated? Is he producing ridiculous amounts of HiBeta or even large amplitudes of Theta. > There is an incredible game in Europe. My dream game. There is a huge air hockey looking table with a puck in the middle and one person is at one end and the other at the other end of the table but instead of padddles they have electrodes on their head. They are sitting and they are getting rewarded for being calm, focused, probably lobeta would be my guess and their rewad is that the puck moves in the oponents direction. Did I also ad that there are tons of people around watching this whole event occur? So normally with this kind of pressure what would the brain do. Personally before NFb I don't know that I would have done so well. But because of the NFB now the people that play this can remain cool calm and collected and m ove the puck in the opposite direction. So back to the Grand Theft Auto - what do you want your son't braint to do while heis playing such a violent game? Do you want his brain to be in that HiBeta hypervigilant exciteable freaky > place or would you like his brain to be in a cool calm collected place. How much more challenging could you get by giving the brain an objective like that. > Okay one more point - When I first started NFb I use to use a headset on each person and would struggle terribly with the signal and interference, blah blah > This woman said that she doesn't use the head sets. I said well I have multiple people inthe room how could that possibly work? Well the brain knows what signal it is producing. The brain is just amazing and it can determine what signal is its own. I have three people in my office most of the time all without headsets and I get wonderful results. Besides if you think about it if you are in the room and you are istening to the rewards that the other person is getting why aren't you walking around with a twitch!!!! > I know I would be with all the Fb rewards I hear every day!!!!! > ANd for that matter look at Pete, if his brain responded to all the rewards he has heard ov er theyears, well then maybe he would have been found with one of those cute little huggy jackets years ago!! > Hope this helps rather than confuses more. > BTW- I heard that Grand Theft Auto you get points for raping a woman and killing people very violently. Is this true? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 Mark, I worked with a counselor who used the TLC and that is how I got affiliated with Pete. We actually started with C4 inhibit all but 13-15. This made him sleep constantly. Then we went to C3 inhibit all but 15-18 and he could not sleep but his attention went up, we tried a few others and returned to C3 inhibit all but 14-17 and eventually, I rewarded 14-17. I then held steady for 40 10 minute sessions. I wish I could post his report card to show the changes. However, I would caution that you would need to do the TLC first. C3, C4 are old stand by’s but the TLC can give you better insight as to which way to go. Best of luck, Connie From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf Of Mark Baddeley Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 7:09 PM To: braintrainer Subject: Re: Re:need advice Connie What were the different protocols you used and what ones did you find efective? Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Connie Welsh To: braintrainer Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 8:06 AM Subject: RE: Re:need advice Hi Liz, this is Connie This is off topic a bit but I only trained my son for 10 minutes 2 times a week for about 40 sessions and he has greatly improved. I trained him with very uninteresting feedback but for 10 minutes it was ok. After getting the correct protocol, he never had a late assignment. His grades have improved greatly and he is much more involved with other kids. It does not have to be much to work. Also, once he sees the improvement, he may keep coming. When we were trying to find the correct protocol, one was good for school but he could not sleep. We changed the protocol to help for sleep and the school benefit went away. He was so upset that he told me, “I don’t need to sleep anyway.” We were able to get one that helped with sleep and with school and we were on our way. He did come to me when he was very upset about something and said he needed help with depression and was willing to do another round but felt better and did not want to do it anymore. You may not have an issue. From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf Of lizmargoshes Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 3:04 PM To: braintrainer Subject: Re:need advice OK, so...if the client is playing a game that has audio involved, the tone, let's say, from the neurofeedback will still " get through " in some way? I'm presuming here that it would NOT be a wonderful idea to train my 15-year-old son while he is playing Grand Theft Auto IV, correct? Because I think the stimuli of the game would totally overwhelm the little tone of the neurofeedback software. (not to mention the other aspects of the game...) How do you deal with the two auditory " tracks " , that of the NFB and that of the game? Sorry to ask for such literal and specific advice -- I'd like to present NFB to my son in as palatable a form as possible. So far I have been training my husband (my first " customer " ), who is not nearly as, um, demanding. It sounds very interesting, to be able to present a game, say, for the DS, which my son owns, as an incentive to do the neurofeedback. I imagine my son (with ADHD and other issues, including Adolescence)will become bored with the single task involved on the neurofeedback screens. He'd definitely do it once for novelty's sake, but then I foresee an uphill battle to get him to come back for more training. If he were to do the training with an accompanying game, that would be a completely different animal! THANKS Liz > >>>> > >>>> (post about using handheld devices etc. for games and tasks while > >>> training with just audio feedback) > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 Mark, I worked with a counselor who used the TLC and that is how I got affiliated with Pete. We actually started with C4 inhibit all but 13-15. This made him sleep constantly. Then we went to C3 inhibit all but 15-18 and he could not sleep but his attention went up, we tried a few others and returned to C3 inhibit all but 14-17 and eventually, I rewarded 14-17. I then held steady for 40 10 minute sessions. I wish I could post his report card to show the changes. However, I would caution that you would need to do the TLC first. C3, C4 are old stand by’s but the TLC can give you better insight as to which way to go. Best of luck, Connie From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf Of Mark Baddeley Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 7:09 PM To: braintrainer Subject: Re: Re:need advice Connie What were the different protocols you used and what ones did you find efective? Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Connie Welsh To: braintrainer Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 8:06 AM Subject: RE: Re:need advice Hi Liz, this is Connie This is off topic a bit but I only trained my son for 10 minutes 2 times a week for about 40 sessions and he has greatly improved. I trained him with very uninteresting feedback but for 10 minutes it was ok. After getting the correct protocol, he never had a late assignment. His grades have improved greatly and he is much more involved with other kids. It does not have to be much to work. Also, once he sees the improvement, he may keep coming. When we were trying to find the correct protocol, one was good for school but he could not sleep. We changed the protocol to help for sleep and the school benefit went away. He was so upset that he told me, “I don’t need to sleep anyway.” We were able to get one that helped with sleep and with school and we were on our way. He did come to me when he was very upset about something and said he needed help with depression and was willing to do another round but felt better and did not want to do it anymore. You may not have an issue. From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf Of lizmargoshes Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 3:04 PM To: braintrainer Subject: Re:need advice OK, so...if the client is playing a game that has audio involved, the tone, let's say, from the neurofeedback will still " get through " in some way? I'm presuming here that it would NOT be a wonderful idea to train my 15-year-old son while he is playing Grand Theft Auto IV, correct? Because I think the stimuli of the game would totally overwhelm the little tone of the neurofeedback software. (not to mention the other aspects of the game...) How do you deal with the two auditory " tracks " , that of the NFB and that of the game? Sorry to ask for such literal and specific advice -- I'd like to present NFB to my son in as palatable a form as possible. So far I have been training my husband (my first " customer " ), who is not nearly as, um, demanding. It sounds very interesting, to be able to present a game, say, for the DS, which my son owns, as an incentive to do the neurofeedback. I imagine my son (with ADHD and other issues, including Adolescence)will become bored with the single task involved on the neurofeedback screens. He'd definitely do it once for novelty's sake, but then I foresee an uphill battle to get him to come back for more training. If he were to do the training with an accompanying game, that would be a completely different animal! THANKS Liz > >>>> > >>>> (post about using handheld devices etc. for games and tasks while > >>> training with just audio feedback) > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 Liz, If I said twice a day, I meant twice a week! Connie From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf Of lizmargoshes Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 9:29 AM To: braintrainer Subject: Re:need advice Sharrie, Thanks for your replies. This is very interesting. As for the rape in Grand Theft Auto, I will ask my son. I know there's violence. This probably sounds like b**sh*t but my son is a very empathic and insightful guy whom I don't see getting " into " the violence in a way that disturbs me. If it did I wouldn't permit it. His ADHD is the distractible type. Your comments about having the brain focused in a certain way while certain tasks are performed that might initially seem counterintuitive is fascinating and has given me a lot to think about! Connie, thank you also for your comment about the ten minutes twice a day. Liz > > Oh how I hear ya!! I would get teased all the time when i first started NFB that if you come into my house don't sit down too long " She'll hook you up! " > Well this is my esponse and this is just theory, so this is not the facts, you'lll have to ask Pete for that! > Let's just say that your son plays Grand Theft Auto without the sound or the sound low. What does his brain do when he is on that game? Is it getting over stimulated? Is he producing ridiculous amounts of HiBeta or even large amplitudes of Theta. > There is an incredible game in Europe. My dream game. There is a huge air hockey looking table with a puck in the middle and one person is at one end and the other at the other end of the table but instead of padddles they have electrodes on their head. They are sitting and they are getting rewarded for being calm, focused, probably lobeta would be my guess and their rewad is that the puck moves in the oponents direction. Did I also ad that there are tons of people around watching this whole event occur? So normally with this kind of pressure what would the brain do. Personally before NFb I don't know that I would have done so well. But because of the NFB now the people that play this can remain cool calm and collected and m ove the puck in the opposite direction. So back to the Grand Theft Auto - what do you want your son't braint to do while heis playing such a violent game? Do you want his brain to be in that HiBeta hypervigilant exciteable freaky > place or would you like his brain to be in a cool calm collected place. How much more challenging could you get by giving the brain an objective like that. > Okay one more point - When I first started NFb I use to use a headset on each person and would struggle terribly with the signal and interference, blah blah > This woman said that she doesn't use the head sets. I said well I have multiple people inthe room how could that possibly work? Well the brain knows what signal it is producing. The brain is just amazing and it can determine what signal is its own. I have three people in my office most of the time all without headsets and I get wonderful results. Besides if you think about it if you are in the room and you are istening to the rewards that the other person is getting why aren't you walking around with a twitch!!!! > I know I would be with all the Fb rewards I hear every day!!!!! > ANd for that matter look at Pete, if his brain responded to all the rewards he has heard ov er theyears, well then maybe he would have been found with one of those cute little huggy jackets years ago!! > Hope this helps rather than confuses more. > BTW- I heard that Grand Theft Auto you get points for raping a woman and killing people very violently. Is this true? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 Liz, If I said twice a day, I meant twice a week! Connie From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf Of lizmargoshes Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 9:29 AM To: braintrainer Subject: Re:need advice Sharrie, Thanks for your replies. This is very interesting. As for the rape in Grand Theft Auto, I will ask my son. I know there's violence. This probably sounds like b**sh*t but my son is a very empathic and insightful guy whom I don't see getting " into " the violence in a way that disturbs me. If it did I wouldn't permit it. His ADHD is the distractible type. Your comments about having the brain focused in a certain way while certain tasks are performed that might initially seem counterintuitive is fascinating and has given me a lot to think about! Connie, thank you also for your comment about the ten minutes twice a day. Liz > > Oh how I hear ya!! I would get teased all the time when i first started NFB that if you come into my house don't sit down too long " She'll hook you up! " > Well this is my esponse and this is just theory, so this is not the facts, you'lll have to ask Pete for that! > Let's just say that your son plays Grand Theft Auto without the sound or the sound low. What does his brain do when he is on that game? Is it getting over stimulated? Is he producing ridiculous amounts of HiBeta or even large amplitudes of Theta. > There is an incredible game in Europe. My dream game. There is a huge air hockey looking table with a puck in the middle and one person is at one end and the other at the other end of the table but instead of padddles they have electrodes on their head. They are sitting and they are getting rewarded for being calm, focused, probably lobeta would be my guess and their rewad is that the puck moves in the oponents direction. Did I also ad that there are tons of people around watching this whole event occur? So normally with this kind of pressure what would the brain do. Personally before NFb I don't know that I would have done so well. But because of the NFB now the people that play this can remain cool calm and collected and m ove the puck in the opposite direction. So back to the Grand Theft Auto - what do you want your son't braint to do while heis playing such a violent game? Do you want his brain to be in that HiBeta hypervigilant exciteable freaky > place or would you like his brain to be in a cool calm collected place. How much more challenging could you get by giving the brain an objective like that. > Okay one more point - When I first started NFb I use to use a headset on each person and would struggle terribly with the signal and interference, blah blah > This woman said that she doesn't use the head sets. I said well I have multiple people inthe room how could that possibly work? Well the brain knows what signal it is producing. The brain is just amazing and it can determine what signal is its own. I have three people in my office most of the time all without headsets and I get wonderful results. Besides if you think about it if you are in the room and you are istening to the rewards that the other person is getting why aren't you walking around with a twitch!!!! > I know I would be with all the Fb rewards I hear every day!!!!! > ANd for that matter look at Pete, if his brain responded to all the rewards he has heard ov er theyears, well then maybe he would have been found with one of those cute little huggy jackets years ago!! > Hope this helps rather than confuses more. > BTW- I heard that Grand Theft Auto you get points for raping a woman and killing people very violently. Is this true? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 Liz, If I said twice a day, I meant twice a week! Connie From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf Of lizmargoshes Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 9:29 AM To: braintrainer Subject: Re:need advice Sharrie, Thanks for your replies. This is very interesting. As for the rape in Grand Theft Auto, I will ask my son. I know there's violence. This probably sounds like b**sh*t but my son is a very empathic and insightful guy whom I don't see getting " into " the violence in a way that disturbs me. If it did I wouldn't permit it. His ADHD is the distractible type. Your comments about having the brain focused in a certain way while certain tasks are performed that might initially seem counterintuitive is fascinating and has given me a lot to think about! Connie, thank you also for your comment about the ten minutes twice a day. Liz > > Oh how I hear ya!! I would get teased all the time when i first started NFB that if you come into my house don't sit down too long " She'll hook you up! " > Well this is my esponse and this is just theory, so this is not the facts, you'lll have to ask Pete for that! > Let's just say that your son plays Grand Theft Auto without the sound or the sound low. What does his brain do when he is on that game? Is it getting over stimulated? Is he producing ridiculous amounts of HiBeta or even large amplitudes of Theta. > There is an incredible game in Europe. My dream game. There is a huge air hockey looking table with a puck in the middle and one person is at one end and the other at the other end of the table but instead of padddles they have electrodes on their head. They are sitting and they are getting rewarded for being calm, focused, probably lobeta would be my guess and their rewad is that the puck moves in the oponents direction. Did I also ad that there are tons of people around watching this whole event occur? So normally with this kind of pressure what would the brain do. Personally before NFb I don't know that I would have done so well. But because of the NFB now the people that play this can remain cool calm and collected and m ove the puck in the opposite direction. So back to the Grand Theft Auto - what do you want your son't braint to do while heis playing such a violent game? Do you want his brain to be in that HiBeta hypervigilant exciteable freaky > place or would you like his brain to be in a cool calm collected place. How much more challenging could you get by giving the brain an objective like that. > Okay one more point - When I first started NFb I use to use a headset on each person and would struggle terribly with the signal and interference, blah blah > This woman said that she doesn't use the head sets. I said well I have multiple people inthe room how could that possibly work? Well the brain knows what signal it is producing. The brain is just amazing and it can determine what signal is its own. I have three people in my office most of the time all without headsets and I get wonderful results. Besides if you think about it if you are in the room and you are istening to the rewards that the other person is getting why aren't you walking around with a twitch!!!! > I know I would be with all the Fb rewards I hear every day!!!!! > ANd for that matter look at Pete, if his brain responded to all the rewards he has heard ov er theyears, well then maybe he would have been found with one of those cute little huggy jackets years ago!! > Hope this helps rather than confuses more. > BTW- I heard that Grand Theft Auto you get points for raping a woman and killing people very violently. Is this true? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 Connie, My bad! Distractible here. Liz > > > > Oh how I hear ya!! I would get teased all the time when i first > started NFB that if you come into my house don't sit down too long > " She'll hook you up! " > > Well this is my esponse and this is just theory, so this is not the > facts, you'lll have to ask Pete for that! > > Let's just say that your son plays Grand Theft Auto without the > sound or the sound low. What does his brain do when he is on that > game? Is it getting over stimulated? Is he producing ridiculous > amounts of HiBeta or even large amplitudes of Theta. > > There is an incredible game in Europe. My dream game. There is a > huge air hockey looking table with a puck in the middle and one person > is at one end and the other at the other end of the table but instead > of padddles they have electrodes on their head. They are sitting and > they are getting rewarded for being calm, focused, probably lobeta > would be my guess and their rewad is that the puck moves in the > oponents direction. Did I also ad that there are tons of people around > watching this whole event occur? So normally with this kind of > pressure what would the brain do. Personally before NFb I don't know > that I would have done so well. But because of the NFB now the people > that play this can remain cool calm and collected and m ove the puck > in the opposite direction. So back to the Grand Theft Auto - what do > you want your son't braint to do while heis playing such a violent > game? Do you want his brain to be in that HiBeta hypervigilant > exciteable freaky > > place or would you like his brain to be in a cool calm collected > place. How much more challenging could you get by giving the brain an > objective like that. > > Okay one more point - When I first started NFb I use to use a > headset on each person and would struggle terribly with the signal and > interference, blah blah > > This woman said that she doesn't use the head sets. I said > well I have multiple people inthe room how could that possibly work? > Well the brain knows what signal it is producing. The brain is just > amazing and it can determine what signal is its own. I have three > people in my office most of the time all without headsets and I get > wonderful results. Besides if you think about it if you are in the > room and you are istening to the rewards that the other person is > getting why aren't you walking around with a twitch!!!! > > I know I would be with all the Fb rewards I hear every day!!!!! > > ANd for that matter look at Pete, if his brain responded to all the > rewards he has heard ov er theyears, well then maybe he would have > been found with one of those cute little huggy jackets years ago!! > > Hope this helps rather than confuses more. > > BTW- I heard that Grand Theft Auto you get points for raping a woman > and killing people very violently. Is this true? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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