Question on clabber & whey?

[Guest guest]

We've been trying the, I think this is what it's called, Clabber or Curds &

Whey.

It's where you set out some raw milk for several days without adding

anything to it for several days and it separates into the milk solids and

whey. You then drain the milk solids so you have some kind of cheese and

whey.

Well, our problem is that the last few tries has produced air bubbles and

smells sour (kinda like sourdough and sometimes much more sour). Much so

that we can't even attempt to eat it. It's also molded the last few times

on top! Are we doing something wrong??? Our house isn't a constant

temperature and has gotten chilly the last few weeks at times. The first

time we did forget to leave the lid unscrewed and that batch smelled

terrible!! ;-( We are using goats milk from a doe that's only giving 1c a

milking and her milk tests show she's doing 8% butterfat! So, maybe it's to

high in cream??? This last batch also hasn't separated into the milk fats

and whey, but maybe because there's just to many milk fats with the high

butterfat content???????????

Any ideas anyone???

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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[Guest guest]

Sometimes I get harmless food grade mold on top as well. Just scrape

it off, or mix it in. No harm done. And no matter what it smells

like, I WOULD attempt to eat it, at least taste it. The smell and the

taste can be two entirely different things sometimes with curds and

whey. And no, you can never have too much cream. Clabbered cream is

old-fashioned sour cream.

You're not doing anything wrong. Only thing I might change is perhaps

covering it better to prevent the little mold spot, but other than that

you're doing fine. Eat it an feel the love!

On Oct 28, 2004, at 10:59 AM, RawDairy wrote:

> Message: 11

> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 00:47:58 -0700

>

> Subject: Question on clabber & whey?

>

> We've been trying the, I think this is what it's called, Clabber or

> Curds &

> Whey.

> It's where you set out some raw milk for several days without adding

> anything to it for several days and it separates into the milk solids

> and

> whey. You then drain the milk solids so you have some kind of cheese

> and

> whey.

> Well, our problem is that the last few tries has produced air bubbles

> and

> smells sour (kinda like sourdough and sometimes much more sour). Much

> so

> that we can't even attempt to eat it. It's also molded the last few

> times

> on top! Are we doing something wrong??? Our house isn't a constant

> temperature and has gotten chilly the last few weeks at times. The

> first

> time we did forget to leave the lid unscrewed and that batch smelled

> terrible!! ;-( We are using goats milk from a doe that's only giving

> 1c a

> milking and her milk tests show she's doing 8% butterfat! So, maybe

> it's to

> high in cream??? This last batch also hasn't separated into the milk

> fats

> and whey, but maybe because there's just to many milk fats with the

> high

> butterfat content???????????

> Any ideas anyone???

[Guest guest]

From your description below something is wrong. Do you have an enamel

pot? Stainless steel?

clean, rinsed, boiling water rinsed, upside down air dried, and

vented while the milk/clabber is incubating?

The good bacteria have got to populate & destroy the icky ones.

Hummmmmm maybe you need a starter. Use Mesophillic Starter from

New England Cheesemaking, one packet per one gallon batch, 75 o F and

see if that works, check it every 12 hours. If you have a really

good live culture plain yogurt you could stir one in after 6 hours

just for insurance.

-Sally

> We've been trying the, I think this is what it's called, Clabber or

Curds &

> Whey.

> It's where you set out some raw milk for several days without adding

> anything to it for several days and it separates into the milk

solids and

> whey. You then drain the milk solids so you have some kind of

cheese and

> whey.

> Well, our problem is that the last few tries has produced air

bubbles and

> smells sour (kinda like sourdough and sometimes much more sour).

Much so

> that we can't even attempt to eat it. It's also molded the last

few times

> on top! Are we doing something wrong??? Our house isn't a constant

> temperature and has gotten chilly the last few weeks at times. The

first

> time we did forget to leave the lid unscrewed and that batch smelled

> terrible!! ;-( We are using goats milk from a doe that's only

giving 1c a

> milking and her milk tests show she's doing 8% butterfat! So,

maybe it's to

> high in cream??? This last batch also hasn't separated into the

milk fats

> and whey, but maybe because there's just to many milk fats with the

high

> butterfat content???????????

> Any ideas anyone???

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Guest guest]

At 11:57 AM 10/28/04 -0500, you wrote:

>Sometimes I get harmless food grade mold on top as well. Just scrape

>it off, or mix it in. No harm done. And no matter what it smells

>like, I WOULD attempt to eat it, at least taste it. The smell and the

>taste can be two entirely different things sometimes with curds and

>whey. And no, you can never have too much cream. Clabbered cream is

>old-fashioned sour cream.

>

>You're not doing anything wrong. Only thing I might change is perhaps

>covering it better to prevent the little mold spot, but other than that

>you're doing fine. Eat it an feel the love!

>

>

Hey, here's an odd question - even if I think I already know the answer.

How well does clabber cheese freeze? I'm thinking that consistency

etc.-wise, it's probably the same as freezing ricotta or something similar.

But how much flavor loss is there after freezing? I'm thinking not

much, but anyone who can confirm that, much appleciated.

*looking at two gallons of milk gone sour, the first is already in the bowl

separating, and I can't use THAT much cheese in a short time!*

On another note, I agree with Sally - I've been using the " cheese " in

anything casserole-type that would normally call for ricotta, cottage

cheese, etc - everything from lasagna to potatos. YUM!!!!

MFJ

I wanna live! I wanna explore the Universe! And I wanna eat pie!

~Urgo

[Guest guest]

@@@ :

> We've been trying the, I think this is what it's called, Clabber or Curds &

> Whey.

> It's where you set out some raw milk for several days without adding

> anything to it for several days and it separates into the milk solids and

> whey. You then drain the milk solids so you have some kind of cheese and

> whey.

@@@

Hi ,

You've got it right-- " clabber " is the correct term for milk fermented

using the bacteria naturally present in the milk. " curds and whey " is

also an accurate description of the result, but this term is more

general; curds and whey result from just about any kind of milk

ferment, from clabber to yogurt to kefir to cultured buttermilk and

dozens of other possibilities. In other words, the term " curds and

whey " is not specific to clabber.

@@@ :

> Well, our problem is that the last few tries has produced air bubbles and

> smells sour (kinda like sourdough and sometimes much more sour). Much so

> that we can't even attempt to eat it. It's also molded the last few times

> on top! Are we doing something wrong??? Our house isn't a constant

> temperature and has gotten chilly the last few weeks at times. The first

> time we did forget to leave the lid unscrewed and that batch smelled

> terrible!! ;-(

@@@

It sounds like your clabber is just fine. It's almost impossible to

do anything wrong with clabber, short of heating the milk beforehand!

I've made literally hundreds of batches of clabbered milk and there is

a lot of variation in curd consistency, smell, taste, presence of

mold, etc. The variation comes from inherent variation in the milk

itself, variation in temperature during fermenting, variation in air

exposure, variation in what's in the air, etc. Variation is normal.

I've never had a failed batch of clabber. There is absolutely no

need to use starters, whether powders, yogurt, buttermilk or whatever

unless you're aiming for a specific texture or flavor corresponding to

one of these. Clabber is often quite delicilous, but not always, and

often almost as thick as yogurt, but not always. My house varies in

temperature a lot too, and during cold times it can take up to a week

to separate into curds and whey. I make clabber, using skim milk,

to get the whey; I typically throw the curds in the compost bowl, so

the flavor is kind of irrelevant to me, but I have often been unable

to keep from snacking on them because they are often delicious.

I've gotten the white mold plenty of times, but usually only if it

sits out for a bit longer than necessary. Like said, it's

harmless stuff and it's probably best to scrape it off and not worry

if you don't remove all of it. The flavor of the mold is kind of

neutral, but a little bitter; it doesn't enhance the clabber.

It doesn't matter whether you use a lid or not. I find it simpler to

use a lid, and I suppose that might reduce interaction with stuff in

the air, but many times I've had milk clabber without being covered

and it works fine.

As far as smelling or tasting sour, well all fermented milks are

inherently sour! The longer the fermentation, the sourer. There is

really nothing different about clabber compared to yogurt, kefir, etc.

It's just some different species of bacteria being used. Looking at

the big picture, there's very little difference between them.

@@@ :

We are using goats milk from a doe that's only giving 1c a

> milking and her milk tests show she's doing 8% butterfat! So, maybe it's to

> high in cream??? This last batch also hasn't separated into the milk fats

> and whey, but maybe because there's just to many milk fats with the high

> butterfat content???????????

@@@

Like said, you can't be too high in cream. You can clabber

cream by itself, and make delicious sour cream. The phrase

" separated into the milk fats and whey " might reflect a

misunderstanding; milk separates into curds and whey, and the curds

contain much more than milk fats; in fact, they are primarily defined

by the specific type of milk protein (casein) they contain.

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay