I think Dehorning/ Debudding is CRAZY

[Guest guest]

We raise dairy goats and dairy goats are now raised under more intense

management situations. You may argue that is not natural, but it's a

fact that it is so!-We breed for milk-in other words-working girls and

horns have no place in a dairy, no matter how beautiful they may

look.-Horns cause harm to the animals that have them , they break off

and cause intense bleeding and they are used often to injure others in

the herd. I have heard many stories about does losing kids due to

horns. So the decision to disbud is not a cosmetic one, like in docking

a tail, but a practical one. I don't know any breeder who would buy a

horned goat anymore.-On the dark side-a few years ago I was naive

enough to post an ad for an all black buck I had -and I recieved many

calls all the way from the East coast and the one question was:Does he

have horns? And when they found that out he did not , they lost

interest! The type of folks who look often for horned goats use them

for animal sacrifice-and Will, I hate to talk about this-but they skin

them alive.-One reason no animal of mine is leaving our farm with

horns, I would turn in my grave knowing they could end up that way.

Elke

Will Winter wrote:

God gave ruminant animals horns so they can draw down the cosmic energy

they need to be vital. They also use their horns as weapons to protect

their

young (while you are sawing logs in your warm bed) and to help

determine

alpha dominance.

When you go to a BIODYNAMIC farm (they ALL have to have livestock as do

all SUSTAINABLE farms) you will see GREEN COPPER residue that is

painted onto the horns to facilitate the conductance of energy. Go that

way

instead of depriving your beautiful beasts.

I think all arguments for dehorning, debeaking (poultry), tail docking

(pigs,

dogs), cropping ears, tail-bobbing (horses), declawing (cats, wild

animals),

de-fanging (wild animals in captivity), nose-ringing (hogs) and other

mutilations (I hate big floppy ear tags and notching too) are not only

an

excuse for poor management, they are a bad habit holdover from a

Capricornian era, and, more importantly, they are a crime against

MOTHER

NATURE.

There are all sorts of other energy collectors on farms that bring

energy into

the land and when they don't exist you can build them (that's what all

those

cylindrical towers are in Ireland). You can now buy new energy towers

(see

acresusa.com) and install them yourself. Like magic, but they work for

Muggles too!

Back to horns, one of the main principles of BIODYNAMIC farming

involves

burying special items such as manure, ground crystal quartz, moss and

other

substances in a cow horn and pointing it towards the moon for a season.

It's

highly technical and scientific. The resulting "prep" can be used to

homeopathically fertilize the land and plants. BD farmers will travel

all over to

get the right kind of horn (size, color, angle, and thickness) for prep

making.

Cosmic energy is also part of what holds a plant vertical (in addition

to

mineral ratios). A wheat straw is 400:1 height to width, a stand-alone

ratio no

man can reproduce in a structure such as an antenna or building without

guy

wires. Think about it, and factor in wind, storms, and rain.

When procedures such as dehorning (and so many more) that denature

animal's vitality are blythly used on the farm, then one gets into

questions like

my e-mail is now full of: "Hey, whattaya got for (fill-in-the-blank)

parasite?".

Cripes, if you don't want horns, get a polled breed! Let's farm for

real.

Will Winter

PS The only "dehorning" work I've done in the last decades is

correcting

BOTCHED dehorning jobs (horn remnants growing back into the head) As I

said yesterday, I've seen rednecks and hillbillies (Hey,give me a

break, these

are my relatives too!!) whacking off horns of ADULT animals with all

sorts of

crude tools that make the swiftness of a chainsaw look HUMANE! I

always

use LOCAL ANESTHETIC and proper restraint when correcting botch jobs

and that's all the anesthetic I ever need, no sedatives even. I also do

acupressure and T-Tellington Touch.

PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

..

[Guest guest]

We raise dairy goats and dairy goats are now raised under more intense

management situations. You may argue that is not natural, but it's a

fact that it is so!-We breed for milk-in other words-working girls and

horns have no place in a dairy, no matter how beautiful they may

look.-Horns cause harm to the animals that have them , they break off

and cause intense bleeding and they are used often to injure others in

the herd. I have heard many stories about does losing kids due to

horns. So the decision to disbud is not a cosmetic one, like in docking

a tail, but a practical one. I don't know any breeder who would buy a

horned goat anymore.-On the dark side-a few years ago I was naive

enough to post an ad for an all black buck I had -and I recieved many

calls all the way from the East coast and the one question was:Does he

have horns? And when they found that out he did not , they lost

interest! The type of folks who look often for horned goats use them

for animal sacrifice-and Will, I hate to talk about this-but they skin

them alive.-One reason no animal of mine is leaving our farm with

horns, I would turn in my grave knowing they could end up that way.

Elke

Will Winter wrote:

God gave ruminant animals horns so they can draw down the cosmic energy

they need to be vital. They also use their horns as weapons to protect

their

young (while you are sawing logs in your warm bed) and to help

determine

alpha dominance.

When you go to a BIODYNAMIC farm (they ALL have to have livestock as do

all SUSTAINABLE farms) you will see GREEN COPPER residue that is

painted onto the horns to facilitate the conductance of energy. Go that

way

instead of depriving your beautiful beasts.

I think all arguments for dehorning, debeaking (poultry), tail docking

(pigs,

dogs), cropping ears, tail-bobbing (horses), declawing (cats, wild

animals),

de-fanging (wild animals in captivity), nose-ringing (hogs) and other

mutilations (I hate big floppy ear tags and notching too) are not only

an

excuse for poor management, they are a bad habit holdover from a

Capricornian era, and, more importantly, they are a crime against

MOTHER

NATURE.

There are all sorts of other energy collectors on farms that bring

energy into

the land and when they don't exist you can build them (that's what all

those

cylindrical towers are in Ireland). You can now buy new energy towers

(see

acresusa.com) and install them yourself. Like magic, but they work for

Muggles too!

Back to horns, one of the main principles of BIODYNAMIC farming

involves

burying special items such as manure, ground crystal quartz, moss and

other

substances in a cow horn and pointing it towards the moon for a season.

It's

highly technical and scientific. The resulting "prep" can be used to

homeopathically fertilize the land and plants. BD farmers will travel

all over to

get the right kind of horn (size, color, angle, and thickness) for prep

making.

Cosmic energy is also part of what holds a plant vertical (in addition

to

mineral ratios). A wheat straw is 400:1 height to width, a stand-alone

ratio no

man can reproduce in a structure such as an antenna or building without

guy

wires. Think about it, and factor in wind, storms, and rain.

When procedures such as dehorning (and so many more) that denature

animal's vitality are blythly used on the farm, then one gets into

questions like

my e-mail is now full of: "Hey, whattaya got for (fill-in-the-blank)

parasite?".

Cripes, if you don't want horns, get a polled breed! Let's farm for

real.

Will Winter

PS The only "dehorning" work I've done in the last decades is

correcting

BOTCHED dehorning jobs (horn remnants growing back into the head) As I

said yesterday, I've seen rednecks and hillbillies (Hey,give me a

break, these

are my relatives too!!) whacking off horns of ADULT animals with all

sorts of

crude tools that make the swiftness of a chainsaw look HUMANE! I

always

use LOCAL ANESTHETIC and proper restraint when correcting botch jobs

and that's all the anesthetic I ever need, no sedatives even. I also do

acupressure and T-Tellington Touch.

PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

..

[Guest guest]

This is true among cattle as well. I had a sweet, loving Highland with those beautiful long horns that everyone said not to mess with. When Margie's calf was 2 days old, the Highland came over with her horns and flipped him and was going back for more. I had to step in and smack her horns with a board in order to shock her enough to get the calf away from her. She never bothered any other calf before so I was really upset about this. It was all I could do to get Margie and the calf back into the corral while avoiding those horns as the Highland really wanted a piece of that calf. Just don't understand that behavior because it was totally out of the blue.

Since I won't have animals here that will hurt each other, she was sold with her son to the man who had the Mini Black Baldy that I traded Margie calf for. He had a vet come in who banded the horns and they came off with no blood at all.

Like you said, it is a matter of safety for all and a necessity in certain circumstances.

K.C.

Re: I think Dehorning/ Debudding is CRAZY

I have heard many stories about does losing kids due to horns. So the decision to disbud is not a cosmetic one, like in docking a tail, but a practical one.

PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/. PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

[Guest guest]

This is true among cattle as well. I had a sweet, loving Highland with those beautiful long horns that everyone said not to mess with. When Margie's calf was 2 days old, the Highland came over with her horns and flipped him and was going back for more. I had to step in and smack her horns with a board in order to shock her enough to get the calf away from her. She never bothered any other calf before so I was really upset about this. It was all I could do to get Margie and the calf back into the corral while avoiding those horns as the Highland really wanted a piece of that calf. Just don't understand that behavior because it was totally out of the blue.

Since I won't have animals here that will hurt each other, she was sold with her son to the man who had the Mini Black Baldy that I traded Margie calf for. He had a vet come in who banded the horns and they came off with no blood at all.

Like you said, it is a matter of safety for all and a necessity in certain circumstances.

K.C.

Re: I think Dehorning/ Debudding is CRAZY

I have heard many stories about does losing kids due to horns. So the decision to disbud is not a cosmetic one, like in docking a tail, but a practical one.

PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/. PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

[Guest guest]

This is true among cattle as well. I had a sweet, loving Highland with those beautiful long horns that everyone said not to mess with. When Margie's calf was 2 days old, the Highland came over with her horns and flipped him and was going back for more. I had to step in and smack her horns with a board in order to shock her enough to get the calf away from her. She never bothered any other calf before so I was really upset about this. It was all I could do to get Margie and the calf back into the corral while avoiding those horns as the Highland really wanted a piece of that calf. Just don't understand that behavior because it was totally out of the blue.

Since I won't have animals here that will hurt each other, she was sold with her son to the man who had the Mini Black Baldy that I traded Margie calf for. He had a vet come in who banded the horns and they came off with no blood at all.

Like you said, it is a matter of safety for all and a necessity in certain circumstances.

K.C.

Re: I think Dehorning/ Debudding is CRAZY

I have heard many stories about does losing kids due to horns. So the decision to disbud is not a cosmetic one, like in docking a tail, but a practical one.

PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/. PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

[Guest guest]

Thank you Harry Potter for such an entertaining post.