Guest guest Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 I don't agree that anti-soy statements are solely the product of disgruntled meat industries. >Aye, the problem is that so much is out there, but the multi-billion dollar >beef industry, milk industry, chicken industry are all against Soy because >it represents a threat to them. The fact soy has made it as far as it has it >pretty remarkable. I think there is reason to be concerned about soy, particularly since all soy, unless it is organically grown, is genetically modified now. But mostly, there are a lot of different estrogen-mimickers in the environment now. The worst offenders are detergents and plasticizers, which are of course ubiquitous. So if one is concerned about the overall load of these estrogen-mimickers, one needs to control it where one can. Estrogen-mimickers are not a manufactured or false issue-- it is the gravest issue facing our species and the world in terms of our genetic health. I'm not saying soy is the gravest issue, I'm saying that the estrogen mimickers in soy are part of an overall environment in which these mimickers are wreaking havoc. Feminization of males and lowered sperm counts are some of the most obvious problems. There is tempeh (5 grain is fabulous, still has some soy but a mix of grains) and seitan (wheat gluten) as other nonmeat protein sources. In our household we used to drink a lot of soymilk. We changed to oatmilk, and my partner, who loves real milk, has gone very happily back to organic, locally produced milk. We're fortunate to live in a dairy county in which the largest producers are changing to organic. For people who are vegans, there's a lot to consider. But, I disagree that the information suggesting that soy is not the be-all and end-all to the issue of protein intake is all coming from meat producers. Locally, the owner of our natural-foods store was sounding the alarm about massive eating of soy 7 years ago, and he didn't have anything to gain from it. --V ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~ --A.J. Muste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 I don't eat animal products for ethical reasons. I limit soy for health reasons. I believe studies prove that the lower the diet in animal products, the greater the health, but I do believe that soy should be kept minimal. There are a lot of junky vegan diets out there. I'd rather see people eat/drink soy any day of the week, though. ;-) Fortunately, FRESH ALMOND MILK is INCREDIBLE and easy and sooo healthy, and I can drink that up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Whoa, testosterone was falling long before Soy was found pretty much anywhere in the west, you are associating a problem with a cause that wasn't there until later. And no, you still don't need meat nor soy for your protein, that has always been a big lie, you can get it happily from veggies and fruits, plenty to live off of. But you're right wheat gluten and 5-grain tempeh(mmmm) are good as well for high protein sources. It is possible to switch to more natural detergents, at least for your own household, and I've felt better since doing that(less tired, although work seems to cancel that out recently!) but you're right the rest of it is simply everywhere. Also consider the estrogen coming from meat, as well as that found in Milk, with all of the growth hormones (increased estrogen is required for increased milk production) as well as that soybeans are one of the top foodcrops for cattle and other animals, and a lot of that " bad stuff " is passed back down. Phytoestrogen is a weak substitute for real estrogen found in meats and dairy. But yeah, massive amounts of anything is bad, moderation is the key to a happy long life. Best, --ph > > > I don't agree that anti-soy statements are solely the product of > disgruntled meat industries. > > >Aye, the problem is that so much is out there, but the multi-billion > dollar > >beef industry, milk industry, chicken industry are all against Soy > because > >it represents a threat to them. The fact soy has made it as far as it has > it > >pretty remarkable. > > I think there is reason to be concerned about soy, particularly since all > soy, unless it is organically grown, is genetically modified now. But > mostly, there are a lot of different estrogen-mimickers in the environment > > now. The worst offenders are detergents and plasticizers, which are of > course ubiquitous. So if one is concerned about the overall load of these > estrogen-mimickers, one needs to control it where one > can. Estrogen-mimickers are not a manufactured or false issue-- it is the > gravest issue facing our species and the world in terms of our genetic > health. I'm not saying soy is the gravest issue, I'm saying that the > estrogen mimickers in soy are part of an overall environment in which > these > mimickers are wreaking havoc. Feminization of males and lowered sperm > counts are some of the most obvious problems. > > There is tempeh (5 grain is fabulous, still has some soy but a mix of > grains) and seitan (wheat gluten) as other nonmeat protein sources. In our > > household we used to drink a lot of soymilk. We changed to oatmilk, and my > > partner, who loves real milk, has gone very happily back to organic, > locally produced milk. We're fortunate to live in a dairy county in which > the largest producers are changing to organic. > > For people who are vegans, there's a lot to consider. But, I disagree that > > the information suggesting that soy is not the be-all and end-all to the > issue of protein intake is all coming from meat producers. Locally, the > owner of our natural-foods store was sounding the alarm about massive > eating of soy 7 years ago, and he didn't have anything to gain from it. > > --V > > ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~ > --A.J. Muste > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Whoa, testosterone was falling long before Soy was found pretty much anywhere in the west, you are associating a problem with a cause that wasn't there until later. And no, you still don't need meat nor soy for your protein, that has always been a big lie, you can get it happily from veggies and fruits, plenty to live off of. But you're right wheat gluten and 5-grain tempeh(mmmm) are good as well for high protein sources. It is possible to switch to more natural detergents, at least for your own household, and I've felt better since doing that(less tired, although work seems to cancel that out recently!) but you're right the rest of it is simply everywhere. Also consider the estrogen coming from meat, as well as that found in Milk, with all of the growth hormones (increased estrogen is required for increased milk production) as well as that soybeans are one of the top foodcrops for cattle and other animals, and a lot of that " bad stuff " is passed back down. Phytoestrogen is a weak substitute for real estrogen found in meats and dairy. But yeah, massive amounts of anything is bad, moderation is the key to a happy long life. Best, --ph > > > I don't agree that anti-soy statements are solely the product of > disgruntled meat industries. > > >Aye, the problem is that so much is out there, but the multi-billion > dollar > >beef industry, milk industry, chicken industry are all against Soy > because > >it represents a threat to them. The fact soy has made it as far as it has > it > >pretty remarkable. > > I think there is reason to be concerned about soy, particularly since all > soy, unless it is organically grown, is genetically modified now. But > mostly, there are a lot of different estrogen-mimickers in the environment > > now. The worst offenders are detergents and plasticizers, which are of > course ubiquitous. So if one is concerned about the overall load of these > estrogen-mimickers, one needs to control it where one > can. Estrogen-mimickers are not a manufactured or false issue-- it is the > gravest issue facing our species and the world in terms of our genetic > health. I'm not saying soy is the gravest issue, I'm saying that the > estrogen mimickers in soy are part of an overall environment in which > these > mimickers are wreaking havoc. Feminization of males and lowered sperm > counts are some of the most obvious problems. > > There is tempeh (5 grain is fabulous, still has some soy but a mix of > grains) and seitan (wheat gluten) as other nonmeat protein sources. In our > > household we used to drink a lot of soymilk. We changed to oatmilk, and my > > partner, who loves real milk, has gone very happily back to organic, > locally produced milk. We're fortunate to live in a dairy county in which > the largest producers are changing to organic. > > For people who are vegans, there's a lot to consider. But, I disagree that > > the information suggesting that soy is not the be-all and end-all to the > issue of protein intake is all coming from meat producers. Locally, the > owner of our natural-foods store was sounding the alarm about massive > eating of soy 7 years ago, and he didn't have anything to gain from it. > > --V > > ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~ > --A.J. Muste > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 >Whoa, testosterone was falling long before Soy was found pretty much >anywhere in the west, you are associating a problem with a cause that wasn't >there until later. No I'm not. I'm stating that, just as I have long minimized my exposures to pesticides coming from all sources, it is important for people to think about minimizing their exposures to the endocrine disruptors like estrogen-mimics. I've seen enough information coming from sources I trust that I decided drinking soy milk was not the right direction for our family. Others can make different choices. People who do eat meat and dairy should make sure they are choosing organically produced products, because it is the factory farmed stuff that has added hormones. There is no single diet that works for all humans. --V ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~ --A.J. Muste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 >Whoa, testosterone was falling long before Soy was found pretty much >anywhere in the west, you are associating a problem with a cause that wasn't >there until later. No I'm not. I'm stating that, just as I have long minimized my exposures to pesticides coming from all sources, it is important for people to think about minimizing their exposures to the endocrine disruptors like estrogen-mimics. I've seen enough information coming from sources I trust that I decided drinking soy milk was not the right direction for our family. Others can make different choices. People who do eat meat and dairy should make sure they are choosing organically produced products, because it is the factory farmed stuff that has added hormones. There is no single diet that works for all humans. --V ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~ --A.J. Muste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 I decided drinking soy milk was not the right direction for our > family. - This is good, Vi. Soy gives negative estrogens UNLESS it is sprouted or fermented. These 2 processes change the negative estrogens into positive stuff. Soy bean sprouts, miso and tempeh are super foods for the body. Soy milk is out. rusty Re: OT: Tea, No Milk > >>Whoa, testosterone was falling long before Soy was found pretty much >>anywhere in the west, you are associating a problem with a cause that >>wasn't >>there until later. > > No I'm not. I'm stating that, just as I have long minimized my exposures > to pesticides coming from all sources, it is important for people to think > about minimizing their exposures to the endocrine disruptors like > estrogen-mimics. I've seen enough information coming from sources I trust > that I decided drinking soy milk was not the right direction for our > family. Others can make different choices. > > People who do eat meat and dairy should make sure they are choosing > organically produced products, because it is the factory farmed stuff that > has added hormones. > > There is no single diet that works for all humans. > > --V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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