Re: free laying hens/ good for chicken broth!

[Guest guest]

Where is your farm located?

>

> We have over 500 old laying hens that need to be retired. These are great for

making chicken broth or chicken soup for this long winter. Also great for making

raw pet food. These hens were raised organically and were happily free-range.

They are between 4-6 years old. We will catch them live for you but then they

are yours. For large orders (at least 50) we can provide you with heated

building and a large plucker for processing. (We may also provide a few helpers,

but bring your crew.) Email for more information. karend@...

>

[Guest guest]

>

> If anyone knows of a buyer that would take these, we are open to suggestions.

Anyone in the cat or dog food making buisness?

What about asking Will? He's always making that cat and dog food from scratch

that he sells at the warehouse.

~Joe

[Guest guest]

Its kind of annoying and insulting to be labeled as a money-grubber when

I am still in danger of losing my entire property, no matter what I

sell at the Warehouse. Becoming a supplier of quality foods to the

Warehouse has slowed but not stopped the the slide towards destitution

that I, like so many others, am on. My farm, like the majority of family

farms, does not support itself.

The " kindness " of others in giving away the same thing that I work so

hard to produce undermines not only the value of what they do but the

value of what I do as well. For those who do not think so, please send

me the money that you get for in exchange for whatever it is you do.

What, YOU can't afford to be that kind?

Craigslist and others like it work wonders for selling off aged poultry,

as well as newspaper ads. My electric coop puts out a monthly news

letter with free advertising for members. There are many avenues

available for marketing farm products.

Another point, if you can afford to give them away but can't afford to

have them processed, why don't you find a charity willing to put up that

cash and then give the processed soup chickens to a food shelf?

I don't see much difference between offering a huge number of free birds

on the TFMN list and the Chinese dumping tons of cashmere fiber on the

market for next to nothing when the Aussies were on the verge of selling

their first marketable crop of it. Consumers didn't worry about Aussie

ranchers going bankrupt, they just were happy that they could get cheap

cashmere sweaters.

I hope the person with these chickens does not see this as an attempt to

attack them. Educate them as to the effects of what they are doing,

which still is a lousy business decision from my point of view. And

challenge the attitude of non-farmers who think that farming is NOT a

business and so its OK for farmers to give away what they work so hard

to produce.

Pat Z.

[Guest guest]

Pat,

I am sorry your farm is not profitable. But I am not understanding why you

are trying to make that 's responsibility.

Seems to me that it would be more productive for you to contact

privately and find out how they manage to run their farm so efficiently that

they can afford to give away their old laying hens.

Greg

On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Pat Zbikowski wrote:

>

>

> Its kind of annoying and insulting to be labeled as a money-grubber when

> I am still in danger of losing my entire property, no matter what I

> sell at the Warehouse. Becoming a supplier of quality foods to the

> Warehouse has slowed but not stopped the the slide towards destitution

> that I, like so many others, am on. My farm, like the majority of family

> farms, does not support itself.

>

> The " kindness " of others in giving away the same thing that I work so

> hard to produce undermines not only the value of what they do but the

> value of what I do as well. For those who do not think so, please send

> me the money that you get for in exchange for whatever it is you do.

> What, YOU can't afford to be that kind?

>

> Craigslist and others like it work wonders for selling off aged poultry,

> as well as newspaper ads. My electric coop puts out a monthly news

> letter with free advertising for members. There are many avenues

> available for marketing farm products.

>

> Another point, if you can afford to give them away but can't afford to

> have them processed, why don't you find a charity willing to put up that

> cash and then give the processed soup chickens to a food shelf?

>

> I don't see much difference between offering a huge number of free birds

> on the TFMN list and the Chinese dumping tons of cashmere fiber on the

> market for next to nothing when the Aussies were on the verge of selling

> their first marketable crop of it. Consumers didn't worry about Aussie

> ranchers going bankrupt, they just were happy that they could get cheap

> cashmere sweaters.

>

> I hope the person with these chickens does not see this as an attempt to

> attack them. Educate them as to the effects of what they are doing,

> which still is a lousy business decision from my point of view. And

> challenge the attitude of non-farmers who think that farming is NOT a

> business and so its OK for farmers to give away what they work so hard

> to produce.

>

> Pat Z.

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, I never expected that I would recieve such harsh comments just for trying

to give away our old chickens. I am sorry if I offended anyone, but I can not

see how my giving away free chickens hurts someone else's buisness. I was trying

to be generous and avoid sending these chickens to the compost pile.

I did also post on craigslist but I wanted to give priority to anyone from this

group. After all, to most people on craigslist these are just old chickens. But

I believed that the people from this group would appreciate the organic,

free-range portion. But to then label me as lazy and tell me I'm undermining

you. Wow, what a wonderful holiday spirit that is! I hardly see how me giving

away 500 chickens is going to have a harsh effect on anyone's buisness. As for

being lazy, please come spend a day with us and you will understand why we

decided not to take on anymore projects and add to the stress! We are already in

over our heads. We do not raise these chicken with the purpose of selling them.

We raise them for the eggs. And since we started over 8 years ago, we have

always given the old chickens away for free. But the group of people we used to

give them to has since moved away and we had to look for another option. I think

in the future, people should be more careful to not judge others so quick. It is

wonderful to use this group to network and expand your buisness, but we should

not be cutting others down for something as simple as giving something away for

free.

On a happier note, all of the chickens have been spoken for. A man is coming

this weekend to pick up the remaining 400. And imagine this... he and his family

and friends are going to get together and spend a few days butchering all these

chickens and then donate them to the food shelf! Now that is true holiday

spirit!

Peace to all,

[Guest guest]

you have my blessings!

>

>

> Wow, I never expected that I would recieve such harsh comments just for

> trying to give away our old chickens. I am sorry if I offended anyone, but I

> can not see how my giving away free chickens hurts someone else's buisness.

> I was trying to be generous and avoid sending these chickens to the compost

> pile.

>

> I did also post on craigslist but I wanted to give priority to anyone from

> this group. After all, to most people on craigslist these are just old

> chickens. But I believed that the people from this group would appreciate

> the organic, free-range portion. But to then label me as lazy and tell me

> I'm undermining you. Wow, what a wonderful holiday spirit that is! I hardly

> see how me giving away 500 chickens is going to have a harsh effect on

> anyone's buisness. As for being lazy, please come spend a day with us and

> you will understand why we decided not to take on anymore projects and add

> to the stress! We are already in over our heads. We do not raise these

> chicken with the purpose of selling them. We raise them for the eggs. And

> since we started over 8 years ago, we have always given the old chickens

> away for free. But the group of people we used to give them to has since

> moved away and we had to look for another option. I think in the future,

> people should be more careful to not judge others so quick. It is wonderful

> to use this group to network and expand your buisness, but we should not be

> cutting others down for something as simple as giving something away for

> free.

>

> On a happier note, all of the chickens have been spoken for. A man is

> coming this weekend to pick up the remaining 400. And imagine this... he and

> his family and friends are going to get together and spend a few days

> butchering all these chickens and then donate them to the food shelf! Now

> that is true holiday spirit!

>

> Peace to all,

>

>

>

>

>

--

Kathy-jo

c.

ebay store: http://stores.ebay.com/Uptown-rags

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/MNBlueSkyGuideExchange/

[Guest guest]

YAY!!!! You've done wonderfully in donating indirectly to the food shelf! The

man who's doing all the 'squawk equity' has true holiday spirit too!!! Thank

you so much for the update! -Sara R

On a happier note, all of the chickens have been spoken for. A man is coming

this weekend to pick up the remaining 400. And imagine this... he and his family

and friends are going to get together and spend a few days butchering all these

chickens and then donate them to the food shelf! Now that is true holiday

spirit!

Peace to all,

[Guest guest]

>I hardly see how me giving away 500 chickens is going to have a harsh

>effect on anyone's buisness.

Obviously, this has a profound effect on Alvin's business, since you are

offering to give away exactly what he sells to the people he sells to.

>It is wonderful to use this group to network and expand your buisness,

>but we should not be cutting others down for something as simple as

>giving something away for free.

Same perception problem. Every action has a positive and equal reaction.

You give birds away to a pool of people that contains Alvin's

customers then they don't buy Alvin's birds.

>We do not raise these chicken with the purpose of selling them. We

>raise them for the eggs. And since we started over 8 years ago, we

have >always given the old chickens away for free.

Any which way you cut it, this is a poor business decision. What other

assets do you give away? How do you NOT regard the birds as valuable?

And why do you hang onto birds so long after they have lost prime

productivity if all you are interested in is producing eggs? We all love

to hate commercial egg production, but the birds there are sold for soup

after about 10 months of laying. Cruel, nasty, cold-hearted but a

calculated business decision that keeps commercial egg producers in

business. I'm not sure, but I think Alvin's souper chickens are

somewheres around 2-3 years of age when he cycles them out. No matter

how you feed them, no matter how you let them run around, you cannot

escape the fact that the birds lose the ability to crank out the eggs

with age. This is a fact of nature that has to be considered when

developing a business plan.

>On a happier note, all of the chickens have been spoken for. A man is

>coming this weekend to pick up the remaining 400. And imagine this...

>he and his family and friends are going to get together and spend a

few >days butchering all these chickens and then donate them to the food

>shelf! Now that is true holiday spirit!

Gee, was this not a suggestion of mine in my last post? Hopefully those

birds do not need to be processed under inspection in order to be given

to the food shelf.

For the people who don't like the points I make, please remember that

its all fairly academic to me, although I do or did have a few packages

of chicken (backs)for soup at the Warehouse. This is, is it not, a

DISCUSSION list? I don't raise birds for the purpose of selling eggs. I

raise birds for meat. But wouldn't I be pretty stupid to throw or give

away the eggs that I don't plan on hatching out? And wouldn't giving

them away to Warehouse customers negatively impact the people who sell

eggs at the Warehouse?

My operation is substantially smaller and substantially more

diversified. I am not a one-crop farmer. This is an old-fashioned family

farm in the old-fashioned sense of the word but without the

old-fashioned 6-10 kids to count on to do the work. Which is why it

does not support me in a modern world. But I keep trying. Greg, your

comments are obviously based on a willful misinterpretation of what you

read, so I won't bother clarifying my last post.

BTW, quail(raised by me) pan fried with sea salt and pepper and then

glazed with maple syrup(made by me) and honey mustard (made by me)tastes

really, really great.

Pat Z.

[Guest guest]

Pat,

Let's not forget that was giving away these chickens LIVE, and would need

to be butchered by the recipient. I honestly don't believe the vast majority of

people who are used to buying chickens from Alvin or yourself are prepared to

butcher these birds, thus they are not and never were in 'competition' with

anyone.

has said her peace. I think her offer was generous, considering there are

people having a hard time right now. You've said your peace as well. Let's let

this topic die.

Cheryl

P.S. I own a not-profitable farm, too. But belittling the competition to a

group of your customers and potential customers is not the thing to do. Sorry,

but that's just my opinion.

[Guest guest]

Alright people, this is enough. If a person chooses to offer a GIFT to people

they should never be condemned for it! Period. A gift is a gift.

When I first started on the TF list here this sort of thing was common. People

bartered, traded, gifted and shared with each other. If they had too much in the

garden they offered it for the picking or maybe for some kombucha, kefir etc.

What has happened to that spirit? Why is it now wrong to give something away?

Yes, even something with great value.

There are many on this list who can not afford to buy the wonderful food so many

of the farmers here produce. I am now in that category myself.

So when an offer like this comes along I jump on it. I need this to survive and

I value the " GIFT " greatly. Now I was not able to take up on her gift, I

so wish I could have but I am a main caretaker right now for my Dad who is home

totally bed ridden with lung cancer. We only have a few days left with him. I am

not able to be gone for more than a couple of hours at a time and then stay very

close to home when I do go out. I am on call 24/7 for mom if she needs

anything. So this is why I was not able to accept this GIFT, otherwise I would

have been there ASAP.

It did my heart so much good to see offer such a wonderful gift to us here

on TF. Seems that there are so few things like this happening on list any more.

I am sure I will get blasted for what I have said. Again I say to , Thank

you, your kindness lightened my heart.

Kimi

*******************************

www.Jremedies.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Life's journey is not to

arrive at the grave safely

in a well preserved body,

but rather to skid in sideways,

totally worn out, shouting

'..holy cow ....what a ride!'

(Unknown)

--- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! --

http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---

[Guest guest]

I would apologize if you all got the wrong idea about my suggesting that any

old hens might be given some credit for having value. This does not concern me

as affecting my market for our old hens. It does concern me that something that

can be given away might soon be looked upon as worth very little. Those that

make soup from these old hens know that the food value is unmistakable and doing

your own processing makes it very satisfying to boot. Just remember that in

reality, it cost well over $5 per hen to grow to the start of egg laying and

that these old hens do indeed have value. So, thank your host/hostess if you

received this gift and call it a day. Alvin

>

> Alright people, this is enough. If a person chooses to offer a GIFT to people

they should never be condemned for it! Period. A gift is a gift.

>

> When I first started on the TF list here this sort of thing was common. People

bartered, traded, gifted and shared with each other. If they had too much in the

garden they offered it for the picking or maybe for some kombucha, kefir etc.

What has happened to that spirit? Why is it now wrong to give something away?

Yes, even something with great value.

>

> There are many on this list who can not afford to buy the wonderful food so

many of the farmers here produce. I am now in that category myself.

>

> So when an offer like this comes along I jump on it. I need this to survive

and I value the " GIFT " greatly. Now I was not able to take up on her gift,

I so wish I could have but I am a main caretaker right now for my Dad who is

home totally bed ridden with lung cancer. We only have a few days left with him.

I am not able to be gone for more than a couple of hours at a time and then stay

very close to home when I do go out. I am on call 24/7 for mom if she needs

anything. So this is why I was not able to accept this GIFT, otherwise I would

have been there ASAP.

>

> It did my heart so much good to see offer such a wonderful gift to us

here on TF. Seems that there are so few things like this happening on list any

more.

>

> I am sure I will get blasted for what I have said. Again I say to ,

Thank you, your kindness lightened my heart.

>

>

> Kimi

> *******************************

> www.Jremedies.com

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Life's journey is not to

> arrive at the grave safely

> in a well preserved body,

> but rather to skid in sideways,

> totally worn out, shouting

> '..holy cow ....what a ride!'

> (Unknown)

>

>

> --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! --

http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Pat,

Any which way you cut it, this is a poor business decision. What other

> assets do you give away? How do you NOT regard the birds as valuable?

>

The value we give to any particular item is a personal and subjective thing.

Just because you feel 's hens have value and should be sold rather than

given away does not imply that everyone else values them the same way, or

that your interpretation is the only correct one.

> Gee, was this not a suggestion of mine in my last post? Hopefully those

> birds do not need to be processed under inspection in order to be given

> to the food shelf.

>

So it's OK if a food shelf gives away these hens, but it's not OK for

to give them away directly? What is the difference?

> But wouldn't I be pretty stupid to throw or give

>

away the eggs that I don't plan on hatching out?

>

I don't think you would be stupid to throw or give away your eggs. They are

yours to do with as you see fit.

> And wouldn't giving

> them away to Warehouse customers negatively impact the people who sell

> eggs at the Warehouse?

>

Giving away the eggs would positively impact Warehouse customers. Positively

impacting customers is something that successful sellers are interested in.

> My operation is substantially smaller and substantially more

> diversified. I am not a one-crop farmer. This is an old-fashioned family

> farm in the old-fashioned sense of the word but without the

> old-fashioned 6-10 kids to count on to do the work. Which is why it

> does not support me in a modern world. But I keep trying.

>

It's clear that you are working very hard at something that is truly a labor

of love. I have a great deal of admiration for all small farmers who are

bucking the factory food system.

> Greg, your

> comments are obviously based on a willful misinterpretation of what you

> read, so I won't bother clarifying my last post.

>

Please explain what you mean by the accusation of 'willful

misinterpretation'. It is not obvious to me.

Greg

[Guest guest]

I'm shocked that an individual is under scrutiny for offering free hens and I

personally feel angry that vendors on this list feel it is appropriate to

" dissect " the quality of the decision publicly. Someone offered free hens to a

food group discussion list. End of topic. Why is it necessary (or even

appropriate) to evaluate the quality of the hens or the business decision

surrounding the hens? The fact that this " attack " is occurring on a yahoo list,

suggests to me there may be a possible conflict of interest beginning to emerge

on this group that should be addressed.

Has this yahoo group become a marketing channel for vendors? Or is it a list

for people to share resources/information about nutrient dense foods?

Personally I appreciate reading the going ons and offerings of our local vendors

on this list, but not if vendors are going to smother the non-commercial and

giving spirit of the group. At what point will individuals feel uncomfortable

offering up mothers or keifer grains when they have a surplus? Are we soon

going to get in trouble if we sell our " surplus " at cost and don't place a

" market rate " price on the items?

Occasionally I post items on another local yahoo group where I give items away

for free or substantially less than what I would ask for them on craigslist.

Should I be attacked because of my " poor " business decision in not selling my

" goods " at fair market value? Why do I do it? Because I am grateful to be in a

local community where it's not all about making money, where I can feel part of

a group of like-minded individuals who share a similar philosophy and truly

appreciate what I am offering. I feel grateful to be able to purchase/receive

for free items way below market price just as I love to give back by doing the

same when I can afford to do so. It also clears items out of the house faster

and with less effort!

For a long time I've felt a conflict of interest has been developing on this

list. And I suppose that's the question I'm raising... When do we reach the

tipping point? At what point are there so many vendors on this list trying to

sell something that it becomes the email we DON " T open as soon as we see it

arrive in our inbox?

I am not trying to downplay the challenges our vendors have trying to make a

profit. But I am questioning whether this yahoo group is a suitable avenue for

them to voice their frustrations. We have a wonderful community of like-minded

people who should never have to second guess whether they will come under attack

for offering something for free. It is this sense of giving that makes me feel

a little less over-commercialized at the end of the day; a quality I truly

appreciate on a daily basis.

Respectfully submitted.

Regards,

[Guest guest]

I never intended or believed that my original post would turn into this! I have

to agree completely with when she said:

" Has this yahoo group become a marketing channel for vendors? Or is it a list

for people to share resources/information about nutrient dense foods?

Personally I appreciate reading the going ons and offerings of our local vendors

on this list, but not if vendors are going to smother the non-commercial and

giving spirit of the group. At what point will individuals feel uncomfortable

offering up mothers or keifer grains when they have a surplus? Are we soon going

to get in trouble if we sell our " surplus " at cost and don't place a " market

rate " price on the items? "

Even though I am not a regular poster here, I still enjoy reading and having the

ability to buy or receive things from others on this group. I do not want

anybody to hesitate posting something they want to sell/ barter/ or give away.

We should be supporting each other, no matter if you agree with their business

decisions or not! Maybe my decision to give away my chickens is a bad decision

in others eyes, but it is MY decision and I have my reasons. A friend of our

used to be in the egg business and he also did not sell his old hens. But this

was before 'craigslist' so his chickens had a much worse fate. Sometimes they

were given to a mink farm and sometimes they were used as target practice. Sad

and such as waste, but what was the other option? It sounds easy to just say

sell them but there is much more involved. Someone needs to butcher them (time /

money involved), freezer space is required (money involved), you need to have

customers (time / money involved), and you need to get the chickens to your

customers (more time / money involved). If this causes you to have no time to

spend with your family, leaves you broke, and completely stressed out, is this

still a good business decision??

This is the holiday season, so I hope we can move on and get back onto happier

things. My old chickens are all gone -leaving me with much less work- giving me

more time to spend with family- that is something to be happy about!!

Peace to all,

[Guest guest]

I just want to say I also agree with and as to what has happened

to this group? It use to be a lot of I have extra ..... Will give away, trade or

barter for ..... What happen to that?

I know I have a jar full of kombucha cultures and I have not offered them on

list. Why, cuz others here sell them. I feel if I offer them free for the pick

up some one will pipe in saying why not bring them to sell at the warehouse or

why not sell them??? I have seen this sort of thing happen a lot since the

opening of the warehouse.

I do not like to charge for something that was gifted to me in the first place.

That is just me, but when I was gifted kefir grains, I choose to mainly give

them away other than the cost of postage. Why, because they are a gift of health

given to me. I just feel I want to pass it along. Same with the kombucha

culture.

So I ask what do we want this list to be from here on out? What do people want

here? What is the goal of our list? Has it changed from what it was in the

beginning? If so we need to have that clarified.

Kimi

*******************************

www.Jremedies.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Life's journey is not to

arrive at the grave safely

in a well preserved body,

but rather to skid in sideways,

totally worn out, shouting

'..holy cow ....what a ride!'

(Unknown)

--- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! --

http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---

[Guest guest]

Agreed --

's numerous points and observations are astute.

I also think Cheryl is correct in the fact that we should live and let die;

however, I would say it is a good idea to pursue the clarification of our

group's purpose and direction. I know I'm curious.

And honestly, I would rather have like-minded cohorts vs. a seller's network.

There can be room for both, but community should trump commerce.

For what it's worth,

a

p.s. After my first chicken butchering experience this fall and seeing 's

initial " free hen " announcement, my immediate reaction was, " What a lot of

work! " Especially for the majority of the population, who are used to getting

their nice and tidy, plucked and eviscerated, packaged, whole chicken. What a

good opportunity for people who want a greater appreciation of how their meat

gets to them.

>

> The fact that this " attack " is occurring on a yahoo list, suggests to me there

may be a possible conflict of interest beginning to emerge on this group that

should be addressed.

>

> >

> Respectfully submitted.

>

> Regards,

>

>