Re: The urn I ordered from Happy Herbalist.

[Guest guest]

I am in Texas too, and the flies being discussed are not the same as the

flies outside in the summer. Fruit flies are the little tiny buggers that

flit around the fruit and veggies that are on our counters. Someone some

time ago suggested brewing in the bathroom where there was less chance of

fruit flies disturbing the work. Since we have two bathrooms that are always

clean and seldom used, we decided to do that. The brew is out of the way, no

one is disturbing or moving it, and there are no fruit flies. Our thanks to

whomever made that suggestion. We are currently brewing four small

containers in one bath and a five-gallon continuous brew in another, and we

have been doing the four containers for several months now. We have very

healthy cultures that seem to be thriving. So far, knock on wood, no mold

and no bugs.

Joyce

Dallas TX

[Guest guest]

, Just for the record, I have been brewing KT for about 6wks.

now and have never had the first problems with any kind of flies or

gnats. I live in the panhandle of FL so it hasn't been super cold or

anything. I don't know if maybe I will have problems later as it gets

warmer temps, but it doesn't seem that flies always come with KT. I

usually let mine brew for around 10 days and only have a dish cloth

lying over the large pyrex bowl it is brewing in. I put tape crossways

on the bowl and lay the dishcloth on top. The tape prevents the cloth

from touching the KT or accidentally falling into it. It easily comes

off when I am ready to bottle up the tea. Just my limited

experience.Hope this helps. Sherry

In original_kombucha , Baker

wrote:

>

>

> >Since I still have not purchased a scoby, I have not started brewing

> >yet...are flies the norm when you are brewing KT in the home?

[Guest guest]

, Just for the record, I have been brewing KT for about 6wks.

now and have never had the first problems with any kind of flies or

gnats. I live in the panhandle of FL so it hasn't been super cold or

anything. I don't know if maybe I will have problems later as it gets

warmer temps, but it doesn't seem that flies always come with KT. I

usually let mine brew for around 10 days and only have a dish cloth

lying over the large pyrex bowl it is brewing in. I put tape crossways

on the bowl and lay the dishcloth on top. The tape prevents the cloth

from touching the KT or accidentally falling into it. It easily comes

off when I am ready to bottle up the tea. Just my limited

experience.Hope this helps. Sherry

In original_kombucha , Baker

wrote:

>

>

> >Since I still have not purchased a scoby, I have not started brewing

> >yet...are flies the norm when you are brewing KT in the home?

[Guest guest]

Hi Sherry, actually that was who was asking about the fruit

flies. But since you are new I'll give you some more information.

>, Just for the record, I have been brewing KT for about 6wks.

>now and have never had the first problems with any kind of flies or

>gnats. I live in the panhandle of FL so it hasn't been super cold or

>anything. I don't know if maybe I will have problems later as it gets

>warmer temps, but it doesn't seem that flies always come with KT.

You almost definitely will see some fruit flies as the temps warm up. They

are killed with any cold at all so if you've had any low temps that's part

of why you haven't seen them. Also, they can take a while to find a

brewer. But, they will inevitably find you.

That doesn't mean you'll have swarms. I have not had any major problems,

but there are a few here over the summer. But here's the thing: Even one

single fly present will get into your brew if it can and lay eggs, which

then hatch into maggots, which then hatch into flies. All human cultures

that brew KT agree that the fruit flies are unacceptable. The maggots are

actually nontoxic, but the flies can track diseases. So you must take

proper precautions.

> I

>usually let mine brew for around 10 days and only have a dish cloth

>lying over the large pyrex bowl it is brewing in. I put tape crossways

>on the bowl and lay the dishcloth on top. The tape prevents the cloth

>from touching the KT or accidentally falling into it. It easily comes

>off when I am ready to bottle up the tea.

Sherry, I must warn you this is not adequate protection against the fruit

flies (also sometimes called vinegar flies), and you are also leaving

yourself open to what are called vinegar eels, a nonparasitic nematode that

is considered in many parts of the world normal and natural to vinegar

making, but which most people in Western cultures are not going to find

easy to accept. The way you avoid both these pests is by fastening your

cloth cover on tightly with a large rubber band or a piece of elastic. The

elastic keeps the cloth tight and out of contact with the brew, and you

won't need the tape across the bowl.

I promise you, Sherry, living in Florida you will wind up with maggots or

eels in your brew as time goes on unless you add the rubber band or elastic

to your brewing setup.

We get posts here all the time from people with these pests and what to do

about them. It's easy to avoid if you have the proper setup.

I hope you don't feel I've jumped on you: this really is a serious issue

about which there is no disagreement: rubber band/elastic is mandatory.

wishing you well,

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

Hi Sherry, actually that was who was asking about the fruit

flies. But since you are new I'll give you some more information.

>, Just for the record, I have been brewing KT for about 6wks.

>now and have never had the first problems with any kind of flies or

>gnats. I live in the panhandle of FL so it hasn't been super cold or

>anything. I don't know if maybe I will have problems later as it gets

>warmer temps, but it doesn't seem that flies always come with KT.

You almost definitely will see some fruit flies as the temps warm up. They

are killed with any cold at all so if you've had any low temps that's part

of why you haven't seen them. Also, they can take a while to find a

brewer. But, they will inevitably find you.

That doesn't mean you'll have swarms. I have not had any major problems,

but there are a few here over the summer. But here's the thing: Even one

single fly present will get into your brew if it can and lay eggs, which

then hatch into maggots, which then hatch into flies. All human cultures

that brew KT agree that the fruit flies are unacceptable. The maggots are

actually nontoxic, but the flies can track diseases. So you must take

proper precautions.

> I

>usually let mine brew for around 10 days and only have a dish cloth

>lying over the large pyrex bowl it is brewing in. I put tape crossways

>on the bowl and lay the dishcloth on top. The tape prevents the cloth

>from touching the KT or accidentally falling into it. It easily comes

>off when I am ready to bottle up the tea.

Sherry, I must warn you this is not adequate protection against the fruit

flies (also sometimes called vinegar flies), and you are also leaving

yourself open to what are called vinegar eels, a nonparasitic nematode that

is considered in many parts of the world normal and natural to vinegar

making, but which most people in Western cultures are not going to find

easy to accept. The way you avoid both these pests is by fastening your

cloth cover on tightly with a large rubber band or a piece of elastic. The

elastic keeps the cloth tight and out of contact with the brew, and you

won't need the tape across the bowl.

I promise you, Sherry, living in Florida you will wind up with maggots or

eels in your brew as time goes on unless you add the rubber band or elastic

to your brewing setup.

We get posts here all the time from people with these pests and what to do

about them. It's easy to avoid if you have the proper setup.

I hope you don't feel I've jumped on you: this really is a serious issue

about which there is no disagreement: rubber band/elastic is mandatory.

wishing you well,

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

>, Sorry about addressing my message to the wrong person.

Thanks for the information. I am really new at KT brewing and have

enjoyed it since starting, but I know there will be some bumps in the

road in the days ahead that I haven't encountered yet. I actually

joined the group to learn all I could about the process. Thanks again

for the help and I will definitely try to start using a band around my

cloth. Eels and maggots sound very unappealing to me! Looking forward

to learning much. Sherry

> Hi Sherry, actually that was who was asking about the fruit

> flies. But since you are new I'll give you some more information.

>

..

>

> >

[Guest guest]

>, Sorry about addressing my message to the wrong person.

Thanks for the information. I am really new at KT brewing and have

enjoyed it since starting, but I know there will be some bumps in the

road in the days ahead that I haven't encountered yet. I actually

joined the group to learn all I could about the process. Thanks again

for the help and I will definitely try to start using a band around my

cloth. Eels and maggots sound very unappealing to me! Looking forward

to learning much. Sherry

> Hi Sherry, actually that was who was asking about the fruit

> flies. But since you are new I'll give you some more information.

>

..

>

> >

[Guest guest]

>, Sorry about addressing my message to the wrong person.

Thanks for the information. I am really new at KT brewing and have

enjoyed it since starting, but I know there will be some bumps in the

road in the days ahead that I haven't encountered yet. I actually

joined the group to learn all I could about the process. Thanks again

for the help and I will definitely try to start using a band around my

cloth. Eels and maggots sound very unappealing to me! Looking forward

to learning much. Sherry

> Hi Sherry, actually that was who was asking about the fruit

> flies. But since you are new I'll give you some more information.

>

..

>

> >

[Guest guest]

Do you think the plastic spigot is something to worry about? In the

one from Happy Herbalist?

Connie

>

>

> >V- do you have a vessel that you can recommend that has a spigot?

I

> >do not want one that the cloth or rubber band easily pops or slips

> >off...just one more thing for me to worry about. Thanks,

>

> I don't use one. Bev does, and she may have the link. It's made

of glass.

>

> I use the Anchor Hocking cookie jars in the 2-gal size. I have not

yet

> done a continuous brew, mine are all the brew-and-decant type.

>

> The jars with spigot are for continuous brewing. But I've really

been

> wondering lately why you couldn't just stir the continuous brew and

ladle

> it out a glass at a time. Sure, the spigot is convenient, but I

haven't

> been able to reconcile myself with the plastic.

>

> Anyway, Bev may have a link for you.

>

> --V

>

>

>

> ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

> --A.J. Muste

>

[Guest guest]

Do you think the plastic spigot is something to worry about? In the

one from Happy Herbalist?

Connie

>

>

> >V- do you have a vessel that you can recommend that has a spigot?

I

> >do not want one that the cloth or rubber band easily pops or slips

> >off...just one more thing for me to worry about. Thanks,

>

> I don't use one. Bev does, and she may have the link. It's made

of glass.

>

> I use the Anchor Hocking cookie jars in the 2-gal size. I have not

yet

> done a continuous brew, mine are all the brew-and-decant type.

>

> The jars with spigot are for continuous brewing. But I've really

been

> wondering lately why you couldn't just stir the continuous brew and

ladle

> it out a glass at a time. Sure, the spigot is convenient, but I

haven't

> been able to reconcile myself with the plastic.

>

> Anyway, Bev may have a link for you.

>

> --V

>

>

>

> ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

> --A.J. Muste

>

[Guest guest]

Do you think the plastic spigot is something to worry about? In the

one from Happy Herbalist?

Connie

>

>

> >V- do you have a vessel that you can recommend that has a spigot?

I

> >do not want one that the cloth or rubber band easily pops or slips

> >off...just one more thing for me to worry about. Thanks,

>

> I don't use one. Bev does, and she may have the link. It's made

of glass.

>

> I use the Anchor Hocking cookie jars in the 2-gal size. I have not

yet

> done a continuous brew, mine are all the brew-and-decant type.

>

> The jars with spigot are for continuous brewing. But I've really

been

> wondering lately why you couldn't just stir the continuous brew and

ladle

> it out a glass at a time. Sure, the spigot is convenient, but I

haven't

> been able to reconcile myself with the plastic.

>

> Anyway, Bev may have a link for you.

>

> --V

>

>

>

> ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

> --A.J. Muste

>

[Guest guest]

>Do you think the plastic spigot is something to worry about? In the

>one from Happy Herbalist?

>Connie

I worry about it. Others don't. The jury is still out on it. I would say

that the spigot on a glass or ceramic vessel is less concern than actually

brewing in plastic. One thing for certain: Someone posted recently about

using some kind of goop to hold their spigot in. This is definitely not

safe practice and that goop will definitely leach into the kombucha. The

only way that spigots should be held in should be with a rubber washer or

O-ring.

We have been told that a couple who brewed for years in 5-gal plastic (food

grade) buckets, the wife wound up with an serious disease related to

plastic in her body parts. I don't know the details, I'm not even sure

it's true. But I already avoid plastic wherever possible in my life so I'm

wary of adding it to kombucha, which is highly acidic.

There's actually been an ongoing controversy about ceramic containers. I

started off brewing in a 1-gal ceramic crock, the heavy old-fashioned ones

made for pickling. Then I added glass vessels, and I find that my brews go

faster in the glass. But our listowner Bev had a ceramic vessel made by a

friend of hers who is a potter, and eventually it leaked KT through, even

though it was glazed inside and out. Others have posted that they have

asked potters they know, and they've said that for highly acidic, 24/7

holding situations, they'd recommend glass.

Obviously Ed doesn't agree as he sells the ceramic vessels. But people

should realize these things are not 100% known as to the safety over time

with the KT being so acidic.

It has been pointed out in the past that there are plastic vessels used in

labs that are known to be safe for acids, but they are very expensive, not

generally available to the public, and still not certain they are safe for

food.

Glass is the only brewing vessel believed to be 100% safe by all who brew

kombucha.

I generally stay out of the plastic controversy because my mind is already

made up. But, our listowner, who is very dedicated to glass vessels, does

have a continuous brewing vessel with a plastic spigot, so I know that very

conscientious brewers do use the plastic spigots. So to the question, is

the plastic spigot safe, the answer is, a lot of people think so.

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

>Do you think the plastic spigot is something to worry about? In the

>one from Happy Herbalist?

>Connie

I worry about it. Others don't. The jury is still out on it. I would say

that the spigot on a glass or ceramic vessel is less concern than actually

brewing in plastic. One thing for certain: Someone posted recently about

using some kind of goop to hold their spigot in. This is definitely not

safe practice and that goop will definitely leach into the kombucha. The

only way that spigots should be held in should be with a rubber washer or

O-ring.

We have been told that a couple who brewed for years in 5-gal plastic (food

grade) buckets, the wife wound up with an serious disease related to

plastic in her body parts. I don't know the details, I'm not even sure

it's true. But I already avoid plastic wherever possible in my life so I'm

wary of adding it to kombucha, which is highly acidic.

There's actually been an ongoing controversy about ceramic containers. I

started off brewing in a 1-gal ceramic crock, the heavy old-fashioned ones

made for pickling. Then I added glass vessels, and I find that my brews go

faster in the glass. But our listowner Bev had a ceramic vessel made by a

friend of hers who is a potter, and eventually it leaked KT through, even

though it was glazed inside and out. Others have posted that they have

asked potters they know, and they've said that for highly acidic, 24/7

holding situations, they'd recommend glass.

Obviously Ed doesn't agree as he sells the ceramic vessels. But people

should realize these things are not 100% known as to the safety over time

with the KT being so acidic.

It has been pointed out in the past that there are plastic vessels used in

labs that are known to be safe for acids, but they are very expensive, not

generally available to the public, and still not certain they are safe for

food.

Glass is the only brewing vessel believed to be 100% safe by all who brew

kombucha.

I generally stay out of the plastic controversy because my mind is already

made up. But, our listowner, who is very dedicated to glass vessels, does

have a continuous brewing vessel with a plastic spigot, so I know that very

conscientious brewers do use the plastic spigots. So to the question, is

the plastic spigot safe, the answer is, a lot of people think so.

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

>Do you think the plastic spigot is something to worry about? In the

>one from Happy Herbalist?

>Connie

I worry about it. Others don't. The jury is still out on it. I would say

that the spigot on a glass or ceramic vessel is less concern than actually

brewing in plastic. One thing for certain: Someone posted recently about

using some kind of goop to hold their spigot in. This is definitely not

safe practice and that goop will definitely leach into the kombucha. The

only way that spigots should be held in should be with a rubber washer or

O-ring.

We have been told that a couple who brewed for years in 5-gal plastic (food

grade) buckets, the wife wound up with an serious disease related to

plastic in her body parts. I don't know the details, I'm not even sure

it's true. But I already avoid plastic wherever possible in my life so I'm

wary of adding it to kombucha, which is highly acidic.

There's actually been an ongoing controversy about ceramic containers. I

started off brewing in a 1-gal ceramic crock, the heavy old-fashioned ones

made for pickling. Then I added glass vessels, and I find that my brews go

faster in the glass. But our listowner Bev had a ceramic vessel made by a

friend of hers who is a potter, and eventually it leaked KT through, even

though it was glazed inside and out. Others have posted that they have

asked potters they know, and they've said that for highly acidic, 24/7

holding situations, they'd recommend glass.

Obviously Ed doesn't agree as he sells the ceramic vessels. But people

should realize these things are not 100% known as to the safety over time

with the KT being so acidic.

It has been pointed out in the past that there are plastic vessels used in

labs that are known to be safe for acids, but they are very expensive, not

generally available to the public, and still not certain they are safe for

food.

Glass is the only brewing vessel believed to be 100% safe by all who brew

kombucha.

I generally stay out of the plastic controversy because my mind is already

made up. But, our listowner, who is very dedicated to glass vessels, does

have a continuous brewing vessel with a plastic spigot, so I know that very

conscientious brewers do use the plastic spigots. So to the question, is

the plastic spigot safe, the answer is, a lot of people think so.

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the advice. I have replaced the cheese cloth with a double layer of

T-shirt material that was rinsed well with vinegar and clean water. The rubber

band does stay in place a lot better with it. Everything still looks good in

the brew and the taste is excellent, so I'm happy. .

---------------------------------

Get your own web address.

Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the advice. I have replaced the cheese cloth with a double layer of

T-shirt material that was rinsed well with vinegar and clean water. The rubber

band does stay in place a lot better with it. Everything still looks good in

the brew and the taste is excellent, so I'm happy. .

---------------------------------

Get your own web address.

Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

I'm new to this list but wanted to share a way of keep fruit flies

under control (sorry, not for the squeamish)...

We had a huge problem with fruit flies that got into our kitchen with

a batch of apples picked from a wild orchard. There were literally

hundred of the things - anytime I got near the fruit bowl, a black

cloud would lift off. I had never seen them before and didn't know

that it was the apples, so it took me a few days to figure out what

caused the invasion.

In the end, what I did was leave my vacuum cleaner in the kitchen and

every morning, when it was still a bit cool and the flies were

sluggish, I would vacuum up whichever flies I could see. Within 3

days, they were all gone. After that, it only took a cursory look

around the kitchen and vacuum up any stragglers. Thankfully, they

never came back and if they did, the vacuum cleaner took care of them

quickly.

I was doing the same in the summer with fruit flies sneaking in to get

to my KT and again, they were gone quickly and didn't come back!

Regards, n

>

> I am in Texas too, and the flies being discussed are not the same as the

> flies outside in the summer. Fruit flies are the little tiny buggers

that

> flit around the fruit and veggies that are on our counters. Someone some

> time ago suggested brewing in the bathroom where there was less

chance of

> fruit flies disturbing the work. Since we have two bathrooms that

are always

> clean and seldom used, we decided to do that. The brew is out of the

way, no

> one is disturbing or moving it, and there are no fruit flies. Our

thanks to

> whomever made that suggestion. We are currently brewing four small

> containers in one bath and a five-gallon continuous brew in another,

and we

> have been doing the four containers for several months now. We have very

> healthy cultures that seem to be thriving. So far, knock on wood, no

mold

> and no bugs.

>

> Joyce

> Dallas TX

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Do you really need a double layer of t-shirt? I was just using one side for

fear that my 'bucha wasn't getting enough air with two.

Also -- I've been using clean shirts, from my drawer that were washed, do

I really need to rinse them with vinegar and water before putting them on

the

top of my jar?

>

> Thanks for the advice. I have replaced the cheese cloth with a double

> layer of T-shirt material that was rinsed well with vinegar and clean water.

> The rubber band does stay in place a lot better with it. Everything still

> looks good in the brew and the taste is excellent, so I'm happy. .

>

> ---------------------------------

> Get your own web address.

> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 11:21 AM 2/6/2007, you wrote:

>Do you really need a double layer of t-shirt? I was just using one side for

>fear that my 'bucha wasn't getting enough air with two.

>

>Also -- I've been using clean shirts, from my drawer that were washed, do

>I really need to rinse them with vinegar and water before putting them on

>the

>top of my jar?

Lots of people use laundered cloth covers. However, machine laundering

often leaves detergent and other chemical residues which are harmful to the

KT culture. So, the safest method is to dedicate a couple cloths to each

vessel, and handwash one while the other is on the vessel (a simple rinse

in cheap vinegar is a good wash).

However, if trying to do the " safest " method means you either can't keep up

with the kombucha or don't change the cloth at all, then machine washing is

a better option for you, even with the risk of the chemical residues.

We all have to make the choices that best guarantee a steady supply of

kombucha for our health. I do know that small problems can add up over

time to reduced vigor in the culture, so I think people should know all the

considerations, but be able to make choices based on what they can

realistically handle.

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

At 11:21 AM 2/6/2007, you wrote:

>Do you really need a double layer of t-shirt? I was just using one side for

>fear that my 'bucha wasn't getting enough air with two.

>

>Also -- I've been using clean shirts, from my drawer that were washed, do

>I really need to rinse them with vinegar and water before putting them on

>the

>top of my jar?

Lots of people use laundered cloth covers. However, machine laundering

often leaves detergent and other chemical residues which are harmful to the

KT culture. So, the safest method is to dedicate a couple cloths to each

vessel, and handwash one while the other is on the vessel (a simple rinse

in cheap vinegar is a good wash).

However, if trying to do the " safest " method means you either can't keep up

with the kombucha or don't change the cloth at all, then machine washing is

a better option for you, even with the risk of the chemical residues.

We all have to make the choices that best guarantee a steady supply of

kombucha for our health. I do know that small problems can add up over

time to reduced vigor in the culture, so I think people should know all the

considerations, but be able to make choices based on what they can

realistically handle.

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

I use single-layer sections of clean t-shirts. I don't re-wash them in vinegar.

In more than a year and hundreds of gallons of KT, I've never had any problems

(no mold, no eels, no contamination) and my tea tastes fantastic!

Dennis

micah milano wrote:

Do you really need a double layer of t-shirt? I was just using one

side for

fear that my 'bucha wasn't getting enough air with two.

Also -- I've been using clean shirts, from my drawer that were washed, do

I really need to rinse them with vinegar and water before putting them on

the

top of my jar?

>

> Thanks for the advice. I have replaced the cheese cloth with a double

> layer of T-shirt material that was rinsed well with vinegar and clean water.

> The rubber band does stay in place a lot better with it. Everything still

> looks good in the brew and the taste is excellent, so I'm happy. .

>

> ---------------------------------

> Get your own web address.

> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I use single-layer sections of clean t-shirts. I don't re-wash them in vinegar.

In more than a year and hundreds of gallons of KT, I've never had any problems

(no mold, no eels, no contamination) and my tea tastes fantastic!

Dennis

micah milano wrote:

Do you really need a double layer of t-shirt? I was just using one

side for

fear that my 'bucha wasn't getting enough air with two.

Also -- I've been using clean shirts, from my drawer that were washed, do

I really need to rinse them with vinegar and water before putting them on

the

top of my jar?

>

> Thanks for the advice. I have replaced the cheese cloth with a double

> layer of T-shirt material that was rinsed well with vinegar and clean water.

> The rubber band does stay in place a lot better with it. Everything still

> looks good in the brew and the taste is excellent, so I'm happy. .

>

> ---------------------------------

> Get your own web address.

> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

>

>