Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 HI there and could you please forward me Dr. Adam's lyme protocol. Thanks, White, ND, -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dr KSent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:50 AMTo: Subject: Babesia Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better...Thanks so much!~ McElveen, NDBare MedicineSpringvale, MEhttp://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 HI there and could you please forward me Dr. Adam's lyme protocol. Thanks, White, ND, -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dr KSent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:50 AMTo: Subject: Babesia Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better...Thanks so much!~ McElveen, NDBare MedicineSpringvale, MEhttp://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 HI here and homeopathic Ledum at perhaps 30C BID might be helpful. Ledum is a miracle worker for Lyme disease. WhiteND -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dr KSent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:50 AMTo: Subject: Babesia Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better...Thanks so much!~ McElveen, NDBare MedicineSpringvale, MEhttp://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 HI here and homeopathic Ledum at perhaps 30C BID might be helpful. Ledum is a miracle worker for Lyme disease. WhiteND -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dr KSent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:50 AMTo: Subject: Babesia Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better...Thanks so much!~ McElveen, NDBare MedicineSpringvale, MEhttp://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 If you could post the Dr. Adam's protocol to the group that would be great! N.D.N.field, RI401*597*0477 To: Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 10:17:37 AMSubject: Re: Babesia me tothanks Zieve MD HI there and could you please forward me Dr. Adam's lyme protocol. Thanks, White, ND, -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dr KSent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:50 AMTo: Subject: Babesia Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better...Thanks so much!~ McElveen, NDBare MedicineSpringvale, MEhttp://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 If you could post the Dr. Adam's protocol to the group that would be great! N.D.N.field, RI401*597*0477 To: Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 10:17:37 AMSubject: Re: Babesia me tothanks Zieve MD HI there and could you please forward me Dr. Adam's lyme protocol. Thanks, White, ND, -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dr KSent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:50 AMTo: Subject: Babesia Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better...Thanks so much!~ McElveen, NDBare MedicineSpringvale, MEhttp://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 Hi .In addition to the treatments you mention here, I use Artemis Plus by Natura as a Babesia treatment, 2-3 bidIt has both whole herb and extract, which I feel works better than artemisinin extract aloneAnd it has to be pulsed so patient is on it 1 week on and 1 week off, or a similar rhythm, because being on it all the time will lower blood levelsBabesis is hard to detect by labAlso, I have success with cryptolepsis tincture from woodland essence (woodlandessence.com), a malarial specificand red root tincture from HerbPharm, a lot of itBoneset tea is good also for the relapsing fever and night sweats Zieve Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better... Thanks so much! ~ McElveen, ND Bare Medicine Springvale, ME http://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 Hi .In addition to the treatments you mention here, I use Artemis Plus by Natura as a Babesia treatment, 2-3 bidIt has both whole herb and extract, which I feel works better than artemisinin extract aloneAnd it has to be pulsed so patient is on it 1 week on and 1 week off, or a similar rhythm, because being on it all the time will lower blood levelsBabesis is hard to detect by labAlso, I have success with cryptolepsis tincture from woodland essence (woodlandessence.com), a malarial specificand red root tincture from HerbPharm, a lot of itBoneset tea is good also for the relapsing fever and night sweats Zieve Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better... Thanks so much! ~ McElveen, ND Bare Medicine Springvale, ME http://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 I would consider A-Bab form Bioresource. Its a Byron White formula and very effective. You only start with drop dosages. Artemisinin will help too but not fabulous. I have no problem trying to decrease microbial burden a little bit even if the drainage concepts and deeper stuff are the priorities. I guess I haven't seen as great of results as some of you just using drainage with these chronic infection patients. I still have to use antimicrobials, but usu focus on parasitic stuff first, which Bab is one of. My practice is pretty much soley Lyme and chronic infection but I have to admit I do not follow Dr. Adam's protocol. Not for lack of interest but my own healing quest has taken me other directions. Kim saxe ND, milwaukee, wi PS hopefully his protocol addresses biofilms- I find to be the greatest obstacle, next to emotional work! Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 07:17:37 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia me tothanks Zieve MD HI there and could you please forward me Dr. Adam's lyme protocol. Thanks, White, ND, -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dr KSent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:50 AMTo: Subject: Babesia Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better...Thanks so much!~ McElveen, NDBare MedicineSpringvale, MEhttp://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 I would consider A-Bab form Bioresource. Its a Byron White formula and very effective. You only start with drop dosages. Artemisinin will help too but not fabulous. I have no problem trying to decrease microbial burden a little bit even if the drainage concepts and deeper stuff are the priorities. I guess I haven't seen as great of results as some of you just using drainage with these chronic infection patients. I still have to use antimicrobials, but usu focus on parasitic stuff first, which Bab is one of. My practice is pretty much soley Lyme and chronic infection but I have to admit I do not follow Dr. Adam's protocol. Not for lack of interest but my own healing quest has taken me other directions. Kim saxe ND, milwaukee, wi PS hopefully his protocol addresses biofilms- I find to be the greatest obstacle, next to emotional work! Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 07:17:37 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia me tothanks Zieve MD HI there and could you please forward me Dr. Adam's lyme protocol. Thanks, White, ND, -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dr KSent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:50 AMTo: Subject: Babesia Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better...Thanks so much!~ McElveen, NDBare MedicineSpringvale, MEhttp://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 me tothanks Zieve MD HI there and could you please forward me Dr. Adam's lyme protocol. Thanks, White, ND, -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dr KSent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:50 AMTo: Subject: Babesia Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better...Thanks so much!~ McElveen, NDBare MedicineSpringvale, MEhttp://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 me tothanks Zieve MD HI there and could you please forward me Dr. Adam's lyme protocol. Thanks, White, ND, -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dr KSent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:50 AMTo: Subject: Babesia Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better...Thanks so much!~ McElveen, NDBare MedicineSpringvale, MEhttp://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 I completely agree with the Alinia . A great med and I use that pharmacy as well. Nice to hear your experience with it. Kim saxe nd. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 08:16:47 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia I too also use antimicrobials in these cases at timesI have used the antiparasitic Alinia, which crosses blood brain barrier, and works well with lyme cysts and babesia, sometimes at beginningIt is very expensive but can be gotten from Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Vancouver BC for $90 or o, which is 1/10 of the price in USA and it worksI have several patients that this moves the case along well, who are also on drainage and herbsOthers I know use Mepron in babesia, I have no experience with this and it is quite expensiveI also think that the Artemisinin people use does not work that well because many doc's keep patients on it continuouslly, and doing this the blood levels go down as the herb has factors in it that lead to this if continuous dose Zieve MD I would consider A-Bab form Bioresource. Its a Byron White formula and very effective. You only start with drop dosages. Artemisinin will help too but not fabulous. I have no problem trying to decrease microbial burden a little bit even if the drainage concepts and deeper stuff are the priorities. I guess I haven't seen as great of results as some of you just using drainage with these chronic infection patients. I still have to use antimicrobials, but usu focus on parasitic stuff first, which Bab is one of. My practice is pretty much soley Lyme and chronic infection but I have to admit I do not follow Dr. Adam's protocol. Not for lack of interest but my own healing quest has taken me other directions. Kim saxe ND, milwaukee, wi PS hopefully his protocol addresses biofilms- I find to be the greatest obstacle, next to emotional work! Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 07:17:37 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia me tothanks Zieve MD HI there and could you please forward me Dr. Adam's lyme protocol. Thanks, White, ND, -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dr KSent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:50 AMTo: Subject: Babesia Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better...Thanks so much!~ McElveen, NDBare MedicineSpringvale, MEhttp://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 I completely agree with the Alinia . A great med and I use that pharmacy as well. Nice to hear your experience with it. Kim saxe nd. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 08:16:47 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia I too also use antimicrobials in these cases at timesI have used the antiparasitic Alinia, which crosses blood brain barrier, and works well with lyme cysts and babesia, sometimes at beginningIt is very expensive but can be gotten from Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Vancouver BC for $90 or o, which is 1/10 of the price in USA and it worksI have several patients that this moves the case along well, who are also on drainage and herbsOthers I know use Mepron in babesia, I have no experience with this and it is quite expensiveI also think that the Artemisinin people use does not work that well because many doc's keep patients on it continuouslly, and doing this the blood levels go down as the herb has factors in it that lead to this if continuous dose Zieve MD I would consider A-Bab form Bioresource. Its a Byron White formula and very effective. You only start with drop dosages. Artemisinin will help too but not fabulous. I have no problem trying to decrease microbial burden a little bit even if the drainage concepts and deeper stuff are the priorities. I guess I haven't seen as great of results as some of you just using drainage with these chronic infection patients. I still have to use antimicrobials, but usu focus on parasitic stuff first, which Bab is one of. My practice is pretty much soley Lyme and chronic infection but I have to admit I do not follow Dr. Adam's protocol. Not for lack of interest but my own healing quest has taken me other directions. Kim saxe ND, milwaukee, wi PS hopefully his protocol addresses biofilms- I find to be the greatest obstacle, next to emotional work! Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 07:17:37 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia me tothanks Zieve MD HI there and could you please forward me Dr. Adam's lyme protocol. Thanks, White, ND, -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dr KSent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:50 AMTo: Subject: Babesia Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better...Thanks so much!~ McElveen, NDBare MedicineSpringvale, MEhttp://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 Well, I can't prescribe in WI but the docs I work with do and do like it. It works. But Klinghardt turned me on to Alinia for many reasons. I will contact you directly cuz I'd like to chat more about some Lyme stuff and bee venom. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 08:30:15 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia Do you use Mepron, Kim? I completely agree with the Alinia . A great med and I use that pharmacy as well. Nice to hear your experience with it. Kim saxe nd. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 08:16:47 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia I too also use antimicrobials in these cases at timesI have used the antiparasitic Alinia, which crosses blood brain barrier, and works well with lyme cysts and babesia, sometimes at beginningIt is very expensive but can be gotten from Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Vancouver BC for $90 or o, which is 1/10 of the price in USA and it worksI have several patients that this moves the case along well, who are also on drainage and herbsOthers I know use Mepron in babesia, I have no experience with this and it is quite expensiveI also think that the Artemisinin people use does not work that well because many doc's keep patients on it continuouslly, and doing this the blood levels go down as the herb has factors in it that lead to this if continuous dose Zieve MD I would consider A-Bab form Bioresource. Its a Byron White formula and very effective. You only start with drop dosages. Artemisinin will help too but not fabulous. I have no problem trying to decrease microbial burden a little bit even if the drainage concepts and deeper stuff are the priorities. I guess I haven't seen as great of results as some of you just using drainage with these chronic infection patients. I still have to use antimicrobials, but usu focus on parasitic stuff first, which Bab is one of. My practice is pretty much soley Lyme and chronic infection but I have to admit I do not follow Dr. Adam's protocol. Not for lack of interest but my own healing quest has taken me other directions. Kim saxe ND, milwaukee, wi PS hopefully his protocol addresses biofilms- I find to be the greatest obstacle, next to emotional work! Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 07:17:37 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia me tothanks Zieve MD HI there and could you please forward me Dr. Adam's lyme protocol. Thanks, White, ND, -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dr KSent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:50 AMTo: Subject: Babesia Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better...Thanks so much!~ McElveen, NDBare MedicineSpringvale, MEhttp://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 Well, I can't prescribe in WI but the docs I work with do and do like it. It works. But Klinghardt turned me on to Alinia for many reasons. I will contact you directly cuz I'd like to chat more about some Lyme stuff and bee venom. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 08:30:15 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia Do you use Mepron, Kim? I completely agree with the Alinia . A great med and I use that pharmacy as well. Nice to hear your experience with it. Kim saxe nd. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 08:16:47 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia I too also use antimicrobials in these cases at timesI have used the antiparasitic Alinia, which crosses blood brain barrier, and works well with lyme cysts and babesia, sometimes at beginningIt is very expensive but can be gotten from Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Vancouver BC for $90 or o, which is 1/10 of the price in USA and it worksI have several patients that this moves the case along well, who are also on drainage and herbsOthers I know use Mepron in babesia, I have no experience with this and it is quite expensiveI also think that the Artemisinin people use does not work that well because many doc's keep patients on it continuouslly, and doing this the blood levels go down as the herb has factors in it that lead to this if continuous dose Zieve MD I would consider A-Bab form Bioresource. Its a Byron White formula and very effective. You only start with drop dosages. Artemisinin will help too but not fabulous. I have no problem trying to decrease microbial burden a little bit even if the drainage concepts and deeper stuff are the priorities. I guess I haven't seen as great of results as some of you just using drainage with these chronic infection patients. I still have to use antimicrobials, but usu focus on parasitic stuff first, which Bab is one of. My practice is pretty much soley Lyme and chronic infection but I have to admit I do not follow Dr. Adam's protocol. Not for lack of interest but my own healing quest has taken me other directions. Kim saxe ND, milwaukee, wi PS hopefully his protocol addresses biofilms- I find to be the greatest obstacle, next to emotional work! Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 07:17:37 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia me tothanks Zieve MD HI there and could you please forward me Dr. Adam's lyme protocol. Thanks, White, ND, -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dr KSent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:50 AMTo: Subject: Babesia Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better...Thanks so much!~ McElveen, NDBare MedicineSpringvale, MEhttp://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 I too also use antimicrobials in these cases at timesI have used the antiparasitic Alinia, which crosses blood brain barrier, and works well with lyme cysts and babesia, sometimes at beginningIt is very expensive but can be gotten from Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Vancouver BC for $90 or o, which is 1/10 of the price in USA and it worksI have several patients that this moves the case along well, who are also on drainage and herbsOthers I know use Mepron in babesia, I have no experience with this and it is quite expensiveI also think that the Artemisinin people use does not work that well because many doc's keep patients on it continuouslly, and doing this the blood levels go down as the herb has factors in it that lead to this if continuous dose Zieve MD I would consider A-Bab form Bioresource. Its a Byron White formula and very effective. You only start with drop dosages. Artemisinin will help too but not fabulous. I have no problem trying to decrease microbial burden a little bit even if the drainage concepts and deeper stuff are the priorities. I guess I haven't seen as great of results as some of you just using drainage with these chronic infection patients. I still have to use antimicrobials, but usu focus on parasitic stuff first, which Bab is one of. My practice is pretty much soley Lyme and chronic infection but I have to admit I do not follow Dr. Adam's protocol. Not for lack of interest but my own healing quest has taken me other directions. Kim saxe ND, milwaukee, wi PS hopefully his protocol addresses biofilms- I find to be the greatest obstacle, next to emotional work! Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 07:17:37 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia me tothanks Zieve MD HI there and could you please forward me Dr. Adam's lyme protocol. Thanks, White, ND, -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dr KSent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:50 AMTo: Subject: Babesia Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better...Thanks so much!~ McElveen, NDBare MedicineSpringvale, MEhttp://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 I too also use antimicrobials in these cases at timesI have used the antiparasitic Alinia, which crosses blood brain barrier, and works well with lyme cysts and babesia, sometimes at beginningIt is very expensive but can be gotten from Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Vancouver BC for $90 or o, which is 1/10 of the price in USA and it worksI have several patients that this moves the case along well, who are also on drainage and herbsOthers I know use Mepron in babesia, I have no experience with this and it is quite expensiveI also think that the Artemisinin people use does not work that well because many doc's keep patients on it continuouslly, and doing this the blood levels go down as the herb has factors in it that lead to this if continuous dose Zieve MD I would consider A-Bab form Bioresource. Its a Byron White formula and very effective. You only start with drop dosages. Artemisinin will help too but not fabulous. I have no problem trying to decrease microbial burden a little bit even if the drainage concepts and deeper stuff are the priorities. I guess I haven't seen as great of results as some of you just using drainage with these chronic infection patients. I still have to use antimicrobials, but usu focus on parasitic stuff first, which Bab is one of. My practice is pretty much soley Lyme and chronic infection but I have to admit I do not follow Dr. Adam's protocol. Not for lack of interest but my own healing quest has taken me other directions. Kim saxe ND, milwaukee, wi PS hopefully his protocol addresses biofilms- I find to be the greatest obstacle, next to emotional work! Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 07:17:37 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia me tothanks Zieve MD HI there and could you please forward me Dr. Adam's lyme protocol. Thanks, White, ND, -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dr KSent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:50 AMTo: Subject: Babesia Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better...Thanks so much!~ McElveen, NDBare MedicineSpringvale, MEhttp://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 Do you use Mepron, Kim? I completely agree with the Alinia . A great med and I use that pharmacy as well. Nice to hear your experience with it. Kim saxe nd. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 08:16:47 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia I too also use antimicrobials in these cases at timesI have used the antiparasitic Alinia, which crosses blood brain barrier, and works well with lyme cysts and babesia, sometimes at beginningIt is very expensive but can be gotten from Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Vancouver BC for $90 or o, which is 1/10 of the price in USA and it worksI have several patients that this moves the case along well, who are also on drainage and herbsOthers I know use Mepron in babesia, I have no experience with this and it is quite expensiveI also think that the Artemisinin people use does not work that well because many doc's keep patients on it continuouslly, and doing this the blood levels go down as the herb has factors in it that lead to this if continuous dose Zieve MD I would consider A-Bab form Bioresource. Its a Byron White formula and very effective. You only start with drop dosages. Artemisinin will help too but not fabulous. I have no problem trying to decrease microbial burden a little bit even if the drainage concepts and deeper stuff are the priorities. I guess I haven't seen as great of results as some of you just using drainage with these chronic infection patients. I still have to use antimicrobials, but usu focus on parasitic stuff first, which Bab is one of. My practice is pretty much soley Lyme and chronic infection but I have to admit I do not follow Dr. Adam's protocol. Not for lack of interest but my own healing quest has taken me other directions. Kim saxe ND, milwaukee, wi PS hopefully his protocol addresses biofilms- I find to be the greatest obstacle, next to emotional work! Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 07:17:37 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia me tothanks Zieve MD HI there and could you please forward me Dr. Adam's lyme protocol. Thanks, White, ND, -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dr KSent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:50 AMTo: Subject: Babesia Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better...Thanks so much!~ McElveen, NDBare MedicineSpringvale, MEhttp://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 Do you use Mepron, Kim? I completely agree with the Alinia . A great med and I use that pharmacy as well. Nice to hear your experience with it. Kim saxe nd. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 08:16:47 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia I too also use antimicrobials in these cases at timesI have used the antiparasitic Alinia, which crosses blood brain barrier, and works well with lyme cysts and babesia, sometimes at beginningIt is very expensive but can be gotten from Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Vancouver BC for $90 or o, which is 1/10 of the price in USA and it worksI have several patients that this moves the case along well, who are also on drainage and herbsOthers I know use Mepron in babesia, I have no experience with this and it is quite expensiveI also think that the Artemisinin people use does not work that well because many doc's keep patients on it continuouslly, and doing this the blood levels go down as the herb has factors in it that lead to this if continuous dose Zieve MD I would consider A-Bab form Bioresource. Its a Byron White formula and very effective. You only start with drop dosages. Artemisinin will help too but not fabulous. I have no problem trying to decrease microbial burden a little bit even if the drainage concepts and deeper stuff are the priorities. I guess I haven't seen as great of results as some of you just using drainage with these chronic infection patients. I still have to use antimicrobials, but usu focus on parasitic stuff first, which Bab is one of. My practice is pretty much soley Lyme and chronic infection but I have to admit I do not follow Dr. Adam's protocol. Not for lack of interest but my own healing quest has taken me other directions. Kim saxe ND, milwaukee, wi PS hopefully his protocol addresses biofilms- I find to be the greatest obstacle, next to emotional work! Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 07:17:37 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia me tothanks Zieve MD HI there and could you please forward me Dr. Adam's lyme protocol. Thanks, White, ND, -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dr KSent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:50 AMTo: Subject: Babesia Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better...Thanks so much!~ McElveen, NDBare MedicineSpringvale, MEhttp://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 Hi guys,I too primarily focus on chronic infectious diseases at my clinic and treat quite a lot of lyme. Like Kim and , I try to combine therapies that address drainage, antimicrobials, antibiofilm and other adjuvent components. For babesia, I also like the sarcode from bioresource. Artemesinin does work well when pulsed 1-2 wks on/1 off taken with grapefruit juice. Some evidence of benefit with GSE. I also use Alinia quite a bit and, in those patients we can get insurance coverage, Mepron and/or Malarone. These are both typically combined with a macrolide. Interesting evidence out there about using heparin/lovenox with mepron to improve the effects of these medications in resistant strains. In patients who do not want or tolerate ABX therapies, mesosilver is showing promise along with some of the ozonated oils known as Rizols. Cory Tichauer, ND Naturopathic PhysicianBear Creek Naturopathic Clinic, LLC1012 E. St.Medford, Oregon 97504 www.bearcreekclinic.com "We have not wings we cannot soar; but, we have feet to scale and climb, by slow degrees, by more and more, the cloudy summits of our time." - Henry W. Longfellow (1819-1892)To: Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 8:30:15 AMSubject: Re: Babesia Do you use Mepron, Kim? I completely agree with the Alinia . A great med and I use that pharmacy as well. Nice to hear your experience with it. Kim saxe nd. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 08:16:47 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia I too also use antimicrobials in these cases at timesI have used the antiparasitic Alinia, which crosses blood brain barrier, and works well with lyme cysts and babesia, sometimes at beginningIt is very expensive but can be gotten from Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Vancouver BC for $90 or o, which is 1/10 of the price in USA and it worksI have several patients that this moves the case along well, who are also on drainage and herbsOthers I know use Mepron in babesia, I have no experience with this and it is quite expensiveI also think that the Artemisinin people use does not work that well because many doc's keep patients on it continuouslly, and doing this the blood levels go down as the herb has factors in it that lead to this if continuous dose Zieve MD I would consider A-Bab form Bioresource. Its a Byron White formula and very effective. You only start with drop dosages. Artemisinin will help too but not fabulous. I have no problem trying to decrease microbial burden a little bit even if the drainage concepts and deeper stuff are the priorities. I guess I haven't seen as great of results as some of you just using drainage with these chronic infection patients. I still have to use antimicrobials, but usu focus on parasitic stuff first, which Bab is one of. My practice is pretty much soley Lyme and chronic infection but I have to admit I do not follow Dr. Adam's protocol. Not for lack of interest but my own healing quest has taken me other directions. Kim saxe ND, milwaukee, wi PS hopefully his protocol addresses biofilms- I find to be the greatest obstacle, next to emotional work! Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 07:17:37 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia me tothanks Zieve MD HI there and could you please forward me Dr. Adam's lyme protocol. Thanks, White, ND, -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dr KSent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:50 AMTo: Subject: Babesia Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better...Thanks so much!~ McElveen, NDBare MedicineSpringvale, MEhttp://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 Hi guys,I too primarily focus on chronic infectious diseases at my clinic and treat quite a lot of lyme. Like Kim and , I try to combine therapies that address drainage, antimicrobials, antibiofilm and other adjuvent components. For babesia, I also like the sarcode from bioresource. Artemesinin does work well when pulsed 1-2 wks on/1 off taken with grapefruit juice. Some evidence of benefit with GSE. I also use Alinia quite a bit and, in those patients we can get insurance coverage, Mepron and/or Malarone. These are both typically combined with a macrolide. Interesting evidence out there about using heparin/lovenox with mepron to improve the effects of these medications in resistant strains. In patients who do not want or tolerate ABX therapies, mesosilver is showing promise along with some of the ozonated oils known as Rizols. Cory Tichauer, ND Naturopathic PhysicianBear Creek Naturopathic Clinic, LLC1012 E. St.Medford, Oregon 97504 www.bearcreekclinic.com "We have not wings we cannot soar; but, we have feet to scale and climb, by slow degrees, by more and more, the cloudy summits of our time." - Henry W. Longfellow (1819-1892)To: Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 8:30:15 AMSubject: Re: Babesia Do you use Mepron, Kim? I completely agree with the Alinia . A great med and I use that pharmacy as well. Nice to hear your experience with it. Kim saxe nd. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 08:16:47 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia I too also use antimicrobials in these cases at timesI have used the antiparasitic Alinia, which crosses blood brain barrier, and works well with lyme cysts and babesia, sometimes at beginningIt is very expensive but can be gotten from Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Vancouver BC for $90 or o, which is 1/10 of the price in USA and it worksI have several patients that this moves the case along well, who are also on drainage and herbsOthers I know use Mepron in babesia, I have no experience with this and it is quite expensiveI also think that the Artemisinin people use does not work that well because many doc's keep patients on it continuouslly, and doing this the blood levels go down as the herb has factors in it that lead to this if continuous dose Zieve MD I would consider A-Bab form Bioresource. Its a Byron White formula and very effective. You only start with drop dosages. Artemisinin will help too but not fabulous. I have no problem trying to decrease microbial burden a little bit even if the drainage concepts and deeper stuff are the priorities. I guess I haven't seen as great of results as some of you just using drainage with these chronic infection patients. I still have to use antimicrobials, but usu focus on parasitic stuff first, which Bab is one of. My practice is pretty much soley Lyme and chronic infection but I have to admit I do not follow Dr. Adam's protocol. Not for lack of interest but my own healing quest has taken me other directions. Kim saxe ND, milwaukee, wi PS hopefully his protocol addresses biofilms- I find to be the greatest obstacle, next to emotional work! Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 07:17:37 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia me tothanks Zieve MD HI there and could you please forward me Dr. Adam's lyme protocol. Thanks, White, ND, -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dr KSent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:50 AMTo: Subject: Babesia Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better...Thanks so much!~ McElveen, NDBare MedicineSpringvale, MEhttp://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 Hi ,I also will measure QDD and fibrinogen in all the chronic infectious patients; and, as you said, they frequently show elevations. Natto or Lumbro is ALWAYS done in my patients and, occassionaly, also heparin. At the latest ILADS conference, a research team at the University of Connecticut that is continuing the work of Alan Mc, MD showed (with flouroscopy) that the biofilms created by lyme and coinfections are rendering standard beta-lactam antibiotics anywhere from 1-3000!!! times less effective. The message behind this study: Fibrinolytics like natto and lumbro are as or more important in treating these infections than the antimicrobials. There may also be a roll for EDTA and enzymes high in muccopolysacharide disrupters (interfase) in treating the biofilms as well.... As for the rizols, I still use biopure but am definetly open to any other companies making quality product .... know any?Cory Naturopathic PhysicianBear Creek Naturopathic Clinic, LLC1012 E. St.Medford, Oregon 97504 www.bearcreekclinic.com "We have not wings we cannot soar; but, we have feet to scale and climb, by slow degrees, by more and more, the cloudy summits of our time." - Henry W. Longfellow (1819-1892)To: Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 2:58:04 PMSubject: Re: Babesia Interesting, CoryI measure fibrinogen and quantitative D-dimers on everyone with chronic disease and many if not most have significantly alterned coag pathwaysMinimum of using nattokinase or lumbrokinase, or heparin if more severeWhere do you get your rizols? Biopure or somewhere else? Hi guys,I too primarily focus on chronic infectious diseases at my clinic and treat quite a lot of lyme. Like Kim and , I try to combine therapies that address drainage, antimicrobials, antibiofilm and other adjuvent components. For babesia, I also like the sarcode from bioresource. Artemesinin does work well when pulsed 1-2 wks on/1 off taken with grapefruit juice. Some evidence of benefit with GSE. I also use Alinia quite a bit and, in those patients we can get insurance coverage, Mepron and/or Malarone. These are both typically combined with a macrolide. Interesting evidence out there about using heparin/lovenox with mepron to improve the effects of these medications in resistant strains. In patients who do not want or tolerate ABX therapies, mesosilver is showing promise along with some of the ozonated oils known as Rizols. Cory Tichauer, ND Naturopathic PhysicianBear Creek Naturopathic Clinic, LLC1012 E. St.Medford, Oregon 97504 www.bearcreekclinic.com "We have not wings we cannot soar; but, we have feet to scale and climb, by slow degrees, by more and more, the cloudy summits of our time." - Henry W. Longfellow (1819-1892)To: Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 8:30:15 AMSubject: Re: Babesia Do you use Mepron, Kim? I completely agree with the Alinia . A great med and I use that pharmacy as well. Nice to hear your experience with it. Kim saxe nd. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 08:16:47 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia I too also use antimicrobials in these cases at timesI have used the antiparasitic Alinia, which crosses blood brain barrier, and works well with lyme cysts and babesia, sometimes at beginningIt is very expensive but can be gotten from Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Vancouver BC for $90 or o, which is 1/10 of the price in USA and it worksI have several patients that this moves the case along well, who are also on drainage and herbsOthers I know use Mepron in babesia, I have no experience with this and it is quite expensiveI also think that the Artemisinin people use does not work that well because many doc's keep patients on it continuouslly, and doing this the blood levels go down as the herb has factors in it that lead to this if continuous dose Zieve MD I would consider A-Bab form Bioresource. Its a Byron White formula and very effective. You only start with drop dosages. Artemisinin will help too but not fabulous. I have no problem trying to decrease microbial burden a little bit even if the drainage concepts and deeper stuff are the priorities. I guess I haven't seen as great of results as some of you just using drainage with these chronic infection patients. I still have to use antimicrobials, but usu focus on parasitic stuff first, which Bab is one of. My practice is pretty much soley Lyme and chronic infection but I have to admit I do not follow Dr. Adam's protocol. Not for lack of interest but my own healing quest has taken me other directions. Kim saxe ND, milwaukee, wi PS hopefully his protocol addresses biofilms- I find to be the greatest obstacle, next to emotional work! Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 07:17:37 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia me tothanks Zieve MD HI there and could you please forward me Dr. Adam's lyme protocol. Thanks, White, ND, -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dr KSent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:50 AMTo: Subject: Babesia Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better...Thanks so much!~ McElveen, NDBare MedicineSpringvale, MEhttp://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 Interesting, CoryI measure fibrinogen and quantitative D-dimers on everyone with chronic disease and many if not most have significantly alterned coag pathwaysMinimum of using nattokinase or lumbrokinase, or heparin if more severeWhere do you get your rizols? Biopure or somewhere else? Hi guys,I too primarily focus on chronic infectious diseases at my clinic and treat quite a lot of lyme. Like Kim and , I try to combine therapies that address drainage, antimicrobials, antibiofilm and other adjuvent components. For babesia, I also like the sarcode from bioresource. Artemesinin does work well when pulsed 1-2 wks on/1 off taken with grapefruit juice. Some evidence of benefit with GSE. I also use Alinia quite a bit and, in those patients we can get insurance coverage, Mepron and/or Malarone. These are both typically combined with a macrolide. Interesting evidence out there about using heparin/lovenox with mepron to improve the effects of these medications in resistant strains. In patients who do not want or tolerate ABX therapies, mesosilver is showing promise along with some of the ozonated oils known as Rizols. Cory Tichauer, ND Naturopathic PhysicianBear Creek Naturopathic Clinic, LLC1012 E. St.Medford, Oregon 97504 www.bearcreekclinic.com "We have not wings we cannot soar; but, we have feet to scale and climb, by slow degrees, by more and more, the cloudy summits of our time." - Henry W. Longfellow (1819-1892)To: Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 8:30:15 AMSubject: Re: Babesia Do you use Mepron, Kim? I completely agree with the Alinia . A great med and I use that pharmacy as well. Nice to hear your experience with it. Kim saxe nd. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 08:16:47 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia I too also use antimicrobials in these cases at timesI have used the antiparasitic Alinia, which crosses blood brain barrier, and works well with lyme cysts and babesia, sometimes at beginningIt is very expensive but can be gotten from Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Vancouver BC for $90 or o, which is 1/10 of the price in USA and it worksI have several patients that this moves the case along well, who are also on drainage and herbsOthers I know use Mepron in babesia, I have no experience with this and it is quite expensiveI also think that the Artemisinin people use does not work that well because many doc's keep patients on it continuouslly, and doing this the blood levels go down as the herb has factors in it that lead to this if continuous dose Zieve MD I would consider A-Bab form Bioresource. Its a Byron White formula and very effective. You only start with drop dosages. Artemisinin will help too but not fabulous. I have no problem trying to decrease microbial burden a little bit even if the drainage concepts and deeper stuff are the priorities. I guess I haven't seen as great of results as some of you just using drainage with these chronic infection patients. I still have to use antimicrobials, but usu focus on parasitic stuff first, which Bab is one of. My practice is pretty much soley Lyme and chronic infection but I have to admit I do not follow Dr. Adam's protocol. Not for lack of interest but my own healing quest has taken me other directions. Kim saxe ND, milwaukee, wi PS hopefully his protocol addresses biofilms- I find to be the greatest obstacle, next to emotional work! Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 07:17:37 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia me tothanks Zieve MD HI there and could you please forward me Dr. Adam's lyme protocol. Thanks, White, ND, -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dr KSent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:50 AMTo: Subject: Babesia Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better...Thanks so much!~ McElveen, NDBare MedicineSpringvale, MEhttp://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 Hi ,I also will measure QDD and fibrinogen in all the chronic infectious patients; and, as you said, they frequently show elevations. Natto or Lumbro is ALWAYS done in my patients and, occassionaly, also heparin. At the latest ILADS conference, a research team at the University of Connecticut that is continuing the work of Alan Mc, MD showed (with flouroscopy) that the biofilms created by lyme and coinfections are rendering standard beta-lactam antibiotics anywhere from 1-3000!!! times less effective. The message behind this study: Fibrinolytics like natto and lumbro are as or more important in treating these infections than the antimicrobials. There may also be a roll for EDTA and enzymes high in muccopolysacharide disrupters (interfase) in treating the biofilms as well.... As for the rizols, I still use biopure but am definetly open to any other companies making quality product .... know any?Cory Naturopathic PhysicianBear Creek Naturopathic Clinic, LLC1012 E. St.Medford, Oregon 97504 www.bearcreekclinic.com "We have not wings we cannot soar; but, we have feet to scale and climb, by slow degrees, by more and more, the cloudy summits of our time." - Henry W. Longfellow (1819-1892)To: Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 2:58:04 PMSubject: Re: Babesia Interesting, CoryI measure fibrinogen and quantitative D-dimers on everyone with chronic disease and many if not most have significantly alterned coag pathwaysMinimum of using nattokinase or lumbrokinase, or heparin if more severeWhere do you get your rizols? Biopure or somewhere else? Hi guys,I too primarily focus on chronic infectious diseases at my clinic and treat quite a lot of lyme. Like Kim and , I try to combine therapies that address drainage, antimicrobials, antibiofilm and other adjuvent components. For babesia, I also like the sarcode from bioresource. Artemesinin does work well when pulsed 1-2 wks on/1 off taken with grapefruit juice. Some evidence of benefit with GSE. I also use Alinia quite a bit and, in those patients we can get insurance coverage, Mepron and/or Malarone. These are both typically combined with a macrolide. Interesting evidence out there about using heparin/lovenox with mepron to improve the effects of these medications in resistant strains. In patients who do not want or tolerate ABX therapies, mesosilver is showing promise along with some of the ozonated oils known as Rizols. Cory Tichauer, ND Naturopathic PhysicianBear Creek Naturopathic Clinic, LLC1012 E. St.Medford, Oregon 97504 www.bearcreekclinic.com "We have not wings we cannot soar; but, we have feet to scale and climb, by slow degrees, by more and more, the cloudy summits of our time." - Henry W. Longfellow (1819-1892)To: Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 8:30:15 AMSubject: Re: Babesia Do you use Mepron, Kim? I completely agree with the Alinia . A great med and I use that pharmacy as well. Nice to hear your experience with it. Kim saxe nd. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 08:16:47 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia I too also use antimicrobials in these cases at timesI have used the antiparasitic Alinia, which crosses blood brain barrier, and works well with lyme cysts and babesia, sometimes at beginningIt is very expensive but can be gotten from Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Vancouver BC for $90 or o, which is 1/10 of the price in USA and it worksI have several patients that this moves the case along well, who are also on drainage and herbsOthers I know use Mepron in babesia, I have no experience with this and it is quite expensiveI also think that the Artemisinin people use does not work that well because many doc's keep patients on it continuouslly, and doing this the blood levels go down as the herb has factors in it that lead to this if continuous dose Zieve MD I would consider A-Bab form Bioresource. Its a Byron White formula and very effective. You only start with drop dosages. Artemisinin will help too but not fabulous. I have no problem trying to decrease microbial burden a little bit even if the drainage concepts and deeper stuff are the priorities. I guess I haven't seen as great of results as some of you just using drainage with these chronic infection patients. I still have to use antimicrobials, but usu focus on parasitic stuff first, which Bab is one of. My practice is pretty much soley Lyme and chronic infection but I have to admit I do not follow Dr. Adam's protocol. Not for lack of interest but my own healing quest has taken me other directions. Kim saxe ND, milwaukee, wi PS hopefully his protocol addresses biofilms- I find to be the greatest obstacle, next to emotional work! Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® Sender: Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 07:17:37 -0800To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: Babesia me tothanks Zieve MD HI there and could you please forward me Dr. Adam's lyme protocol. Thanks, White, ND, -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Dr KSent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 8:50 AMTo: Subject: Babesia Hello all! I have a 64 yo male with 20+ years of chronic joint/muscle pain, sweats (day and night) and headaches. I tested him for Lyme and it was barely positive, but he wasn't able to afford the co-infections panel, and with his malaria-like symptoms, I'm very confident he may have Babesia (his wife was definitely positive for chronic Lyme and I'm treating her successfully with Dr ' Gemmo protocol). He also has a significant exposure history to all kinds of chemical exposures while in the army. I've been doing general drainage for 2 months, and am about to start him on Gemmos for Lyme/Babesia, but he's still feeling like crap all the time. Any thoughts on palliative care while we're treating the chronic infections/toxicities other than the obvious COPs, BTGs? I also have him on Phytogreens to help absorb any toxins moved with drainage treatment. I really feel like there are so many layers to his symptoms and therefore believe doing antimicrobial rxs won't address nearly as much as UNDAs/gemmos, but he's getting a bit impatient and just wants to feel better...Thanks so much!~ McElveen, NDBare MedicineSpringvale, MEhttp://www.baremedicine.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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