Guest guest Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 > > Hi, I'm new to this list. I am just starting out, got a starter from > Audrey on Saturday. I was just wondering if anyone knows if it is > safe to drink while breastfeeding. I asked some other people and the > only thing the could think of would be the caffeine (which isn't bad, > is just passed to my son via bm). I am hoping someone here will have > a more sure answer. Thanks! > > ~Virginia > Know that you're not alone. I'm breastfeeding and haven't noticed any change in my dd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Hi Virginia and EveryOne, Wonderful that you are Breastfeeding your baby, that is the best way! I sent you a Kombucha thread entitled Kombucha Children and Nursing Mothers via email.....it can also be found in the FILES section of the list homepage on in the folder....Kombucha Threads.. EveryOne should have a look at those Kombucha Threads...they are a compilation of posts to this list from the past compiled by former list owner Bob .... If it was me, I would not start to drink Kombucha tea while pregnant or nursing however, if I was already drinking KT for several months then I would probably continue to do so....the reason being that I would not want the original detox process which Kombucha can create to effect my child in any way. However, there is lots of debate on this issue so in the end you will need to decide what feels best to you. Peace, Love and Harmony, Bev > > Hi, I'm new to this list. I am just starting out, got a starter from > Audrey on Saturday. I was just wondering if anyone knows if it is > safe to drink while breastfeeding. I asked some other people and the > only thing the could think of would be the caffeine (which isn't bad, > is just passed to my son via bm). I am hoping someone here will have > a more sure answer. Thanks! > > ~Virginia > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Hi Virginia and EveryOne, Wonderful that you are Breastfeeding your baby, that is the best way! I sent you a Kombucha thread entitled Kombucha Children and Nursing Mothers via email.....it can also be found in the FILES section of the list homepage on in the folder....Kombucha Threads.. EveryOne should have a look at those Kombucha Threads...they are a compilation of posts to this list from the past compiled by former list owner Bob .... If it was me, I would not start to drink Kombucha tea while pregnant or nursing however, if I was already drinking KT for several months then I would probably continue to do so....the reason being that I would not want the original detox process which Kombucha can create to effect my child in any way. However, there is lots of debate on this issue so in the end you will need to decide what feels best to you. Peace, Love and Harmony, Bev > > Hi, I'm new to this list. I am just starting out, got a starter from > Audrey on Saturday. I was just wondering if anyone knows if it is > safe to drink while breastfeeding. I asked some other people and the > only thing the could think of would be the caffeine (which isn't bad, > is just passed to my son via bm). I am hoping someone here will have > a more sure answer. Thanks! > > ~Virginia > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 IMHO, as I have often expressed on this list there are " cautions " on breastfeeding and drinking Kombucha Tea. It is popularly believed to be safe. Here are some of my concerns. A few are the same concerns that would be expressed for any live and fermented food. Properly prepared for - a healthy adult, live fermented foods presents little concerns. However, my concerns are directed to those in a weakened, unprotected, or a compromised state. One example is diarrhea. Not a major health concern for healthy adults – but is extremely important for infants. Many people use raw honey (incredible healing properties) both in fermenting kombucha tea and as a nutritional food. In one out of five cases of botulism in infants, the infant has eaten raw honey. Kombucha is said to detox the body. A typical warning is to drink enough water to release those toxins from the body. Toxins normally passes through the urine and stool. If one's body is dehydrated then those toxins may be released through the skin, sweat, nose and --- milk. Traditional Chinese Medicine holds that a mother's body (as well as the baby) at this time are in a weaken state and needs to be strengthen – not purged. Kombucha tea does not build the immune system - it does assist the system. A newborn does not have its own immune system as yet and relies on the mothers (and kombucha) until its own is developed. If one continues to give kombucha to the baby then the babies system never gets fully developed as it continues to rely upon kombucha. We must also be mindful that kombucha, as in any other live fermented food, contains wild and airborne yeasts and bacteria. Also present in our air and surroundings are pathogenic yeasts and bacteria like E.Coli, Salmonella, Staph and steph. Any pathogenic mould population when it becomes – visible – is simply thrown out. But what about the time just before visibility?. The Cornel University Food Science Study http://www.happyherbalist.com/analysis_of_kt_cornell.htm " determined that kombucha tea was antipathogenic and may be important in aiding immunity and illness prevention and could lead to better overall health " once the proper acetic acid level was reached. The Kombucha colonies used in this investigation had a tendency to produce about 3.3% total acid, 0.7% acetic acid, 4.8% glucose, and 0.6% ethanol after a nine-day fermentation. Their average pH 2.5 No lactic acid was produced. Therefore is kombucha tea safe is dependent upon what's in your ferment. Not all kombucha's are equal. There are many on this list that have a lacto-ferment and they consider their ferment as interchangeable with an acetic acid kombucha ferment. I do not. Ed Kasper California Licensed Acupuncturist & medicinal herbalist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 Every time this subject arises, certain opinions arise, so here's mine: Ed wrote: >Many people use raw honey >(incredible healing properties) both in fermenting kombucha tea and >as a nutritional food. In one out of five cases of botulism in >infants, the infant has eaten raw honey. Agreed, the KT should not be made with raw honey. >Kombucha is said to detox the body. A typical warning is to drink >enough water to release those toxins from the body. Toxins normally >passes through the urine and stool. If one's body is dehydrated then >those toxins may be released through the skin, sweat, nose and --- >milk. So, be sure to drink enough water. > Traditional Chinese Medicine holds that a mother's body (as well as >the baby) at this time are in a weaken state and needs to be >strengthen not purged. Kombucha tea does not build the immune >system - it does assist the system. I don't agree. My experience is that with drinking KT, my immune system is stronger and my whole system is stronger. Recently my partner stopped drinking KT after a couple of years, and after 3 weeks he got a cold virus. After not being sick for the two years. We both know it was because he didn't have the KT. > A newborn does not have its own >immune system as yet and relies on the mothers (and kombucha) until >its own is developed. If one continues to give kombucha to the baby >then the babies system never gets fully developed as it continues to >rely upon kombucha. I think this is a specious argument. It's like saying, giving a baby top-notch nutrition makes the baby addicted to good nutrition. >We must also be mindful that kombucha, as in any other live fermented >food, contains wild and airborne yeasts and bacteria. Also present in >our air and surroundings are pathogenic yeasts and bacteria like >E.Coli, Salmonella, Staph and steph. Any pathogenic mould population >when it becomes visible is simply thrown out. But what about the >time just before visibility?. Scare tactics. >Therefore is kombucha tea safe is dependent upon what's in your >ferment. Not all kombucha's are equal. There are many on this list >that have a lacto-ferment and they consider their ferment as >interchangeable with an acetic acid kombucha ferment. I do not. This again is your supposition, unproved, going back to the GT's controversy. It really doesn't belong in this discussion. The following is what I've written previously on this subject-- It focuses on pregnancy, but discusses breastfeeding. It contains links to other sources, including an Eastern European website; let's remember that Eastern Europe is has a near-uninterrupted tradition of brewing KT, unlike the USA, the Americas, most of Western Europe, the UK, etc. That website welcomes KT drinking by pregnant women and children. I also provide links to the Midwifery Forums. I began by quoting a post by Margret: >There really is no data that I have ever found that would support >not drinking Kombucha during pregnancy. As far as I have seen it's all >theoretical conjecture. Margret, I so agree with you here. And I'll go on with some further thoughts: Saying that kombucha will make a baby addicted to the immune support of kombucha is like saying that a pregnant woman getting optimum nutrition will make the baby addicted to optimum nutrition. It makes no sense to me, and I strongly feel that that sort of caution against drinking KT during pregnancy is an overthinkification, or to use the correct word, overintellectualization. Kombucha is a food. The alcohol content is the same as fruit juice, so avoiding KT during pregnancy out of fear of alcohol would mean that women shouldn't drink fruit juice during pg? I don't think so. Kombucha is a highly nutritious food that gives the body the building blocks to do with as it pleases. That is the difference between a drug and a food, is that the body chooses what to do with the substance, it is not *told* to do with it. I've read thousands of words on the internet on this subject over the last couple days, and most of the references on the net come from the same very few sources. I read (mostly men) telling women that they shouldn't take vitamins, that they should just " eat a healthy diet " and be in their own skins. The state of things today in the world we live in, one can't even *get* optimum nutrition from food, it's all so denatured from demineralization of the soil and toxics. I indexed a book on fatty acids. When the mother doesn't have enough fatty acids, the baby gets even less. Each generation of humans that doesn't have enough fatty acids, the next generation suffers even more, and the western society diet has been fatty-acid-deficient since the 1940s. Fatty acids determine intelligence and emotional stability, among other nerve and brain functioning. So all pregnant women should supplement for fatty acids. You can't even get enough fatty acids in a diet anymore. You have to supplement (noto bene: hemp seed oil has the Omegas in the correct ratio). And then of course there is the folic acid issue. Point being, telling pg women not to supplement their diets is absurd. Plus, kombucha may detox but it is a *balancer* more than anything. It provides the body with the constituents to balance itself. There are two circumstances I've seen described that I would say merit real consideration. And those are, an already pregnant woman and an already nursing woman, coming to KT for the first time. It's been stated that the release of toxins that the KT may initiate in these first-timers might be harmful. This argument to me has some merit, but the answer does not have to be " don't do it " but, do it with caution. From a link from the Midwifery Forums http://www.midwiferytoday.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7971: > Kombucha is safe in pregnancy, if you begin with tiny amounts and slowly > work up. That assists your liver in dealing with wht you're eating, > instead of detoxing. If you begin it before prregnancy, there is no issue > with continuing. and from another post on that forum: >Kombucha is safe for me because I have been drinking it for several months >prior to the pg. > >I think pg woman with no prior use of kombucha could get good benefits >from slowly adding it -- drinking it like the vinegar water: just a splash >of kombucha in a cup of water. I do that at night because I'm limiting the >kombucha consumption to about 16 oz a day, but I have a " high tolerance " >built up. > >I really feel much better this time around. I started off with the all day >morning sickness but I'm truly able to control it with the kombucha, I >believe. It helps me eat! And I have time periods when I actually feel >good. But who knows why really? > >I'm definitely healthier this time around, and I feel it's because of the >kombucha and the raw milk. I think the liver plays a big role in morning >sickness. In my uneducated opinion it would be better for me to mildly >detox while pregnant than to have an overworked liver contanstly unable to >process poisons, making my entire being feel toxic for the entire pg. Here is another source, Eastern European, that states no problems for pg women, or for children http://w3.datanet.hu/~akvapol/kombucha/english/kombucha.htm: >Children who already consume solid food and pregnant women can also drink >kambucha tea. Pregnant women should avoid pawpaw, but there is no limit >concerning the amount of [kombucha] tea. For children, mixing the tea with >fruit juice or mineral water will create a more appealing taste. Science used to say that *nothing* can cross the placental barrier, and now science seems to want to say that *everything* crosses that barrier, unchanged. A number of people have asserted that KT crosses the placenta unchanged. I say bogus! It's not some single molecule like a drug that goes across, it is many different constituents that will be used by the mother's body and then yes, some things will cross. But to medicalize KT and claim that it goes across the placenta and gives the fetus diarrhea, or is " harsh " on the fetus, is speculation pure and simple and I seriously doubt it. I understand that accredited, licensed herbalists, just like licensed physicians, have to be extremely careful in what they recommend. But I just seriously do not agree with the idea that giving one's body optimal nutrition during pregnancy can be anything other than beneficial for the developing fetus and the lifelong health of the child, and as importantly, for the health and well-being of the pregnant woman and herself postpartum. I have said this before and I will say it again: KT has been being brewed for thousands of years. In tribal times, before people ever knew what was in KT or how it worked exactly scientifically, medicine was highly advanced. People did brain surgery successfully in the stone age, ok? It's called trephination -- Google it and see. We humans may not have had microscopes, but human healers are very capable of sophisticated medicine without the modern science slant. And if anything about KT was bad for humans, or bad for human reproduction, it would have been stamped out and we would not have access to it today because without human nurturance KT could die out completely. Unfortunately, today's medical industry is not governed by what is truly best for society as a whole or the individual, it is first governed by profit. So we can no longer count on the " healers " of our culture to protect us from what is dangerous. But in the case of KT, we know that it has come down to us through the rigorous testing of the ancient tribal healers, and I truly believe that we can trust that. Here is another link on a Mothering forum: http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=431417 that discusses the use of kombucha (starts off as a discussion of apple cider vinegar, kombucha comes in about halfway down the page). Women who are interested, I would suggest you join the midwifery forum and/or the mothering forum and get in contact with those who are knowledgeable and experienced personally on the subject. with best wishes, --V ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~ --A.J. Muste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 Thank you. We joined this list to learn more about how to make our own kombucha, but I am seven weeks pregnant and have been personally debating whether to consume kombucha or not. I had drank it sporadically before finding out I was pregnant, so figured I should stop during pregnancy. But, I've been having problems with digestion, and after a lot of reading and debating, I decided to just have a few ounces a day, and it really seems to help. There's so many decision to make when you're pregnant, so I can see where it could be a very personal issue, and one definitely has to use her own intuition. Tara in land _____ From: original_kombucha [mailto:original_kombucha ] On Behalf Of Baker Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 7:10 AM To: original_kombucha Subject: Re: Re: KT and Breastfeeding Every time this subject arises, certain opinions arise, so here's mine: Ed wrote: >Many people use raw honey >(incredible healing properties) both in fermenting kombucha tea and >as a nutritional food. In one out of five cases of botulism in >infants, the infant has eaten raw honey. Agreed, the KT should not be made with raw honey. >Kombucha is said to detox the body. A typical warning is to drink >enough water to release those toxins from the body. Toxins normally >passes through the urine and stool. If one's body is dehydrated then >those toxins may be released through the skin, sweat, nose and --- >milk. So, be sure to drink enough water. > Traditional Chinese Medicine holds that a mother's body (as well as >the baby) at this time are in a weaken state and needs to be >strengthen - not purged. Kombucha tea does not build the immune >system - it does assist the system. I don't agree. My experience is that with drinking KT, my immune system is stronger and my whole system is stronger. Recently my partner stopped drinking KT after a couple of years, and after 3 weeks he got a cold virus. After not being sick for the two years. We both know it was because he didn't have the KT. > A newborn does not have its own >immune system as yet and relies on the mothers (and kombucha) until >its own is developed. If one continues to give kombucha to the baby >then the babies system never gets fully developed as it continues to >rely upon kombucha. I think this is a specious argument. It's like saying, giving a baby top-notch nutrition makes the baby addicted to good nutrition. >We must also be mindful that kombucha, as in any other live fermented >food, contains wild and airborne yeasts and bacteria. Also present in >our air and surroundings are pathogenic yeasts and bacteria like >E.Coli, Salmonella, Staph and steph. Any pathogenic mould population >when it becomes - visible - is simply thrown out. But what about the >time just before visibility?. Scare tactics. >Therefore is kombucha tea safe is dependent upon what's in your >ferment. Not all kombucha's are equal. There are many on this list >that have a lacto-ferment and they consider their ferment as >interchangeable with an acetic acid kombucha ferment. I do not. This again is your supposition, unproved, going back to the GT's controversy. It really doesn't belong in this discussion. The following is what I've written previously on this subject-- It focuses on pregnancy, but discusses breastfeeding. It contains links to other sources, including an Eastern European website; let's remember that Eastern Europe is has a near-uninterrupted tradition of brewing KT, unlike the USA, the Americas, most of Western Europe, the UK, etc. That website welcomes KT drinking by pregnant women and children. I also provide links to the Midwifery Forums. I began by quoting a post by Margret: >There really is no data that I have ever found that would support >not drinking Kombucha during pregnancy. As far as I have seen it's all >theoretical conjecture. Margret, I so agree with you here. And I'll go on with some further thoughts: Saying that kombucha will make a baby addicted to the immune support of kombucha is like saying that a pregnant woman getting optimum nutrition will make the baby addicted to optimum nutrition. It makes no sense to me, and I strongly feel that that sort of caution against drinking KT during pregnancy is an overthinkification, or to use the correct word, overintellectualization. Kombucha is a food. The alcohol content is the same as fruit juice, so avoiding KT during pregnancy out of fear of alcohol would mean that women shouldn't drink fruit juice during pg? I don't think so. Kombucha is a highly nutritious food that gives the body the building blocks to do with as it pleases. That is the difference between a drug and a food, is that the body chooses what to do with the substance, it is not *told* to do with it. I've read thousands of words on the internet on this subject over the last couple days, and most of the references on the net come from the same very few sources. I read (mostly men) telling women that they shouldn't take vitamins, that they should just " eat a healthy diet " and be in their own skins. The state of things today in the world we live in, one can't even *get* optimum nutrition from food, it's all so denatured from demineralization of the soil and toxics. I indexed a book on fatty acids. When the mother doesn't have enough fatty acids, the baby gets even less. Each generation of humans that doesn't have enough fatty acids, the next generation suffers even more, and the western society diet has been fatty-acid-deficient since the 1940s. Fatty acids determine intelligence and emotional stability, among other nerve and brain functioning. So all pregnant women should supplement for fatty acids. You can't even get enough fatty acids in a diet anymore. You have to supplement (noto bene: hemp seed oil has the Omegas in the correct ratio). And then of course there is the folic acid issue. Point being, telling pg women not to supplement their diets is absurd. Plus, kombucha may detox but it is a *balancer* more than anything. It provides the body with the constituents to balance itself. There are two circumstances I've seen described that I would say merit real consideration. And those are, an already pregnant woman and an already nursing woman, coming to KT for the first time. It's been stated that the release of toxins that the KT may initiate in these first-timers might be harmful. This argument to me has some merit, but the answer does not have to be " don't do it " but, do it with caution. From a link from the Midwifery Forums http://www.midwifer <http://www.midwiferytoday.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7971:> ytoday.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7971: > Kombucha is safe in pregnancy, if you begin with tiny amounts and slowly > work up. That assists your liver in dealing with wht you're eating, > instead of detoxing. If you begin it before prregnancy, there is no issue > with continuing. and from another post on that forum: >Kombucha is safe for me because I have been drinking it for several months >prior to the pg. > >I think pg woman with no prior use of kombucha could get good benefits >from slowly adding it -- drinking it like the vinegar water: just a splash >of kombucha in a cup of water. I do that at night because I'm limiting the >kombucha consumption to about 16 oz a day, but I have a " high tolerance " >built up. > >I really feel much better this time around. I started off with the all day >morning sickness but I'm truly able to control it with the kombucha, I >believe. It helps me eat! And I have time periods when I actually feel >good. But who knows why really? > >I'm definitely healthier this time around, and I feel it's because of the >kombucha and the raw milk. I think the liver plays a big role in morning >sickness. In my uneducated opinion it would be better for me to mildly >detox while pregnant than to have an overworked liver contanstly unable to >process poisons, making my entire being feel toxic for the entire pg. Here is another source, Eastern European, that states no problems for pg women, or for children http://w3.datanet. <http://w3.datanet.hu/~akvapol/kombucha/english/kombucha.htm:> hu/~akvapol/kombucha/english/kombucha.htm: >Children who already consume solid food and pregnant women can also drink >kambucha tea. Pregnant women should avoid pawpaw, but there is no limit >concerning the amount of [kombucha] tea. For children, mixing the tea with >fruit juice or mineral water will create a more appealing taste. Science used to say that *nothing* can cross the placental barrier, and now science seems to want to say that *everything* crosses that barrier, unchanged. A number of people have asserted that KT crosses the placenta unchanged. I say bogus! It's not some single molecule like a drug that goes across, it is many different constituents that will be used by the mother's body and then yes, some things will cross. But to medicalize KT and claim that it goes across the placenta and gives the fetus diarrhea, or is " harsh " on the fetus, is speculation pure and simple and I seriously doubt it. I understand that accredited, licensed herbalists, just like licensed physicians, have to be extremely careful in what they recommend. But I just seriously do not agree with the idea that giving one's body optimal nutrition during pregnancy can be anything other than beneficial for the developing fetus and the lifelong health of the child, and as importantly, for the health and well-being of the pregnant woman and herself postpartum. I have said this before and I will say it again: KT has been being brewed for thousands of years. In tribal times, before people ever knew what was in KT or how it worked exactly scientifically, medicine was highly advanced. People did brain surgery successfully in the stone age, ok? It's called trephination -- Google it and see. We humans may not have had microscopes, but human healers are very capable of sophisticated medicine without the modern science slant. And if anything about KT was bad for humans, or bad for human reproduction, it would have been stamped out and we would not have access to it today because without human nurturance KT could die out completely. Unfortunately, today's medical industry is not governed by what is truly best for society as a whole or the individual, it is first governed by profit. So we can no longer count on the " healers " of our culture to protect us from what is dangerous. But in the case of KT, we know that it has come down to us through the rigorous testing of the ancient tribal healers, and I truly believe that we can trust that. Here is another link on a Mothering forum: http://www.motherin <http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=431417> g.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=431417 that discusses the use of kombucha (starts off as a discussion of apple cider vinegar, kombucha comes in about halfway down the page). Women who are interested, I would suggest you join the midwifery forum and/or the mothering forum and get in contact with those who are knowledgeable and experienced personally on the subject. with best wishes, --V ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~ --A.J. Muste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 So... what are you saying exactly? My son is 15 mos old and still nursing. In your opinion, would ME drinking KT be safe? If I detoxify thru my urine, then it wouldn't affect my son right, except possible caffeine? I know there is no sure answer. But I know little about this, just started my first batch on Monday night so I'm looking for some guidance. Thanks! ~Virginia " Traditional Chinese Medicine holds that a mother's body (as well as the baby) at this time are in a weaken state and needs to be strengthen – not purged. Kombucha tea does not build the immune system - it does assist the system. A newborn does not have its own immune system as yet and relies on the mothers (and kombucha) until its own is developed. If one continues to give kombucha to the baby then the babies system never gets fully developed as it continues to rely upon kombucha. " _________________________________________________________________ Dave vs. Carl: The Insignificant Championship Series. Who will win? http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://davevsc\ arl.spaces.live.com/?icid=T001MSN38C07001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 Hi Virginia and EveryOne, There is no sure-fire answer about whether or not Pregnant or Nursing Mothers should drink Kombucha, in the end, it is your call... In addition to the opinions just expressed on this list in the last few days, you will find a " Kombucha Thread " in the FILES section of the list homepage called: " Children and Nursing Mothers " . http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/original_kombucha/files/Kombucha%20Threads/\ Kombucha%20Threads/ That file includes a lot of the previous discussions that have been held on the same subject on this list in the past....again no final agreement is reached. It is all a matter of opinion!!! No scientific studies have been done that prove one way or the other. Read all the information and make your own best informed decision. This debate will not be settled here and now, or any time soon, so each person must decide for themselves. Wishing you and your family the best of health and happiness. Peace, Love and Harmony, Bev -- In original_kombucha , " Virginia " wrote: > > So... what are you saying exactly? My son is 15 mos old and still nursing. > In your opinion, would ME drinking KT be safe? If I detoxify thru my urine, > then it wouldn't affect my son right, except possible caffeine? > > I know there is no sure answer. But I know little about this, just started > my first batch on Monday night so I'm looking for some guidance. Thanks! > > ~Virginia > > > " Traditional Chinese Medicine holds that a mother's body (as well as > the baby) at this time are in a weaken state and needs to be > strengthen – not purged. Kombucha tea does not build the immune > system - it does assist the system. A newborn does not have its own > immune system as yet and relies on the mothers (and kombucha) until > its own is developed. If one continues to give kombucha to the baby > then the babies system never gets fully developed as it continues to > rely upon kombucha. " > > _________________________________________________________________ > Dave vs. Carl: The Insignificant Championship Series. Who will win? > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://davevsc\ arl.spaces.live.com/?icid=T001MSN38C07001 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 I am not a dr. and can't say from a true medical opinion, but I believe common sense would say don't start anything NEW while pregnant or breastfeeding. If you have never exercised, don't start while pregnant. Puts an added strain on your body. -- You can start while breastfeeding. If you have never had a massage, you might not want to have your first one while pregnant. It releases built up toxins in the muscles and could impact your fetus. If you are pregnant, or exclusively breastfeeding (the first 6 months or so....) and have NEVER had KT, I wouldn't start then. You don't know what YOUR body's reaction to the drink will be, much less your unborn baby's. That being said, if you have been drinking it successfully for years, the odds are you already HAVE detoxed and should be OK continuing to drink it. But pregnancy and bfeeding are no time to experiment with your body. It could have a serious! impact. Good luck!! Vee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 I advise against drinking KT while breastfeeding. According to Roussin kombucha-research.com study repeated by Cornel University Food Study KT does not contain nutritional food in any value. So why do it. Slight side effects reported to me by mothers were dizziness and faintness. Others have reported those as well. Overall KT is still safe but " First Do No Harm " supposed to be the physician's motto. Ed Kasper LAc. California licensed health care profeesional > > So... what are you saying exactly? My son is 15 mos old and still nursing. > In your opinion, would ME drinking KT be safe? If I detoxify thru my urine, > then it wouldn't affect my son right, except possible caffeine? > > I know there is no sure answer. But I know little about this, just started > my first batch on Monday night so I'm looking for some guidance. Thanks! > > ~Virginia > > > " Traditional Chinese Medicine holds that a mother's body (as well as > the baby) at this time are in a weaken state and needs to be > strengthen – not purged. Kombucha tea does not build the immune > system - it does assist the system. A newborn does not have its own > immune system as yet and relies on the mothers (and kombucha) until > its own is developed. If one continues to give kombucha to the baby > then the babies system never gets fully developed as it continues to > rely upon kombucha. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 you totally misunderstood me. Raw honey is healthy and beneficial. It is OK and healthy to make KT with raw honey unless ... raw honey may contain Clostridium botulinum spores which has resulted in infant botulism - a serious disorder requiring hospitalization. Adults with a more developed immune system will not be affected. KT made with raw honey for healthy people is safe. Ed Kasper LAc. > >Many people use raw honey > >(incredible healing properties) both in fermenting kombucha tea and > >as a nutritional food. In one out of five cases of botulism in > >infants, the infant has eaten raw honey. > > Agreed, the KT should not be made with raw honey. > > >Kombucha is said to detox the body. A typical warning is to drink > >enough water to release those toxins from the body. Toxins normally > >passes through the urine and stool. If one's body is dehydrated then > >those toxins may be released through the skin, sweat, nose and --- > >milk. > > So, be sure to drink enough water. > > > Traditional Chinese Medicine holds that a mother's body (as well as > >the baby) at this time are in a weaken state and needs to be > >strengthen not purged. Kombucha tea does not build the immune > >system - it does assist the system. > > I don't agree. My experience is that with drinking KT, my immune system is > stronger and my whole system is stronger. Recently my partner stopped > drinking KT after a couple of years, and after 3 weeks he got a cold > virus. After not being sick for the two years. We both know it was > because he didn't have the KT. > > > A newborn does not have its own > >immune system as yet and relies on the mothers (and kombucha) until > >its own is developed. If one continues to give kombucha to the baby > >then the babies system never gets fully developed as it continues to > >rely upon kombucha. > > I think this is a specious argument. It's like saying, giving a baby > top-notch nutrition makes the baby addicted to good nutrition. > > >We must also be mindful that kombucha, as in any other live fermented > >food, contains wild and airborne yeasts and bacteria. Also present in > >our air and surroundings are pathogenic yeasts and bacteria like > >E.Coli, Salmonella, Staph and steph. Any pathogenic mould population > >when it becomes visible is simply thrown out. But what about the > >time just before visibility?. > > Scare tactics. > > >Therefore is kombucha tea safe is dependent upon what's in your > >ferment. Not all kombucha's are equal. There are many on this list > >that have a lacto-ferment and they consider their ferment as > >interchangeable with an acetic acid kombucha ferment. I do not. > > This again is your supposition, unproved, going back to the GT's > controversy. It really doesn't belong in this discussion. > > The following is what I've written previously on this subject-- It focuses > on pregnancy, but discusses breastfeeding. It contains links to other > sources, including an Eastern European website; let's remember that Eastern > Europe is has a near-uninterrupted tradition of brewing KT, unlike the USA, > the Americas, most of Western Europe, the UK, etc. That website welcomes > KT drinking by pregnant women and children. I also provide links to the > Midwifery Forums. > > I began by quoting a post by Margret: > >There really is no data that I have ever found that would support > >not drinking Kombucha during pregnancy. As far as I have seen it's all > >theoretical conjecture. > > Margret, I so agree with you here. And I'll go on with some further thoughts: > > Saying that kombucha will make a baby addicted to the immune support of > kombucha is like saying that a pregnant woman getting optimum nutrition > will make the baby addicted to optimum nutrition. It makes no sense to me, > and I strongly feel that that sort of caution against drinking KT during > pregnancy is an overthinkification, or to use the correct word, > overintellectualization. > > Kombucha is a food. The alcohol content is the same as fruit juice, so > avoiding KT during pregnancy out of fear of alcohol would mean that women > shouldn't drink fruit juice during pg? I don't think so. > > Kombucha is a highly nutritious food that gives the body the building > blocks to do with as it pleases. That is the difference between a drug and > a food, is that the body chooses what to do with the substance, it is not > *told* to do with it. > > I've read thousands of words on the internet on this subject over the last > couple days, and most of the references on the net come from the same very > few sources. > > I read (mostly men) telling women that they shouldn't take vitamins, that > they should just " eat a healthy diet " and be in their own skins. The state > of things today in the world we live in, one can't even *get* optimum > nutrition from food, it's all so denatured from demineralization of the > soil and toxics. I indexed a book on fatty acids. When the mother doesn't > have enough fatty acids, the baby gets even less. Each generation of > humans that doesn't have enough fatty acids, the next generation suffers > even more, and the western society diet has been fatty-acid- deficient since > the 1940s. Fatty acids determine intelligence and emotional stability, > among other nerve and brain functioning. So all pregnant women should > supplement for fatty acids. You can't even get enough fatty acids in a diet > anymore. You have to supplement (noto bene: hemp seed oil has the Omegas > in the correct ratio). And then of course there is the folic acid issue. > > Point being, telling pg women not to supplement their diets is absurd. > > Plus, kombucha may detox but it is a *balancer* more than anything. It > provides the body with the constituents to balance itself. > > There are two circumstances I've seen described that I would say merit real > consideration. And those are, an already pregnant woman and an already > nursing woman, coming to KT for the first time. It's been stated that the > release of toxins that the KT may initiate in these first-timers might be > harmful. This argument to me has some merit, but the answer does not have > to be " don't do it " but, do it with caution. From a link from the > Midwifery Forums http://www.midwiferytoday.com/forums/topic.asp? TOPIC_ID=7971: > > > Kombucha is safe in pregnancy, if you begin with tiny amounts and slowly > > work up. That assists your liver in dealing with wht you're eating, > > instead of detoxing. If you begin it before prregnancy, there is no issue > > with continuing. > > and from another post on that forum: > >Kombucha is safe for me because I have been drinking it for several months > >prior to the pg. > > > >I think pg woman with no prior use of kombucha could get good benefits > >from slowly adding it -- drinking it like the vinegar water: just a splash > >of kombucha in a cup of water. I do that at night because I'm limiting the > >kombucha consumption to about 16 oz a day, but I have a " high tolerance " > >built up. > > > >I really feel much better this time around. I started off with the all day > >morning sickness but I'm truly able to control it with the kombucha, I > >believe. It helps me eat! And I have time periods when I actually feel > >good. But who knows why really? > > > >I'm definitely healthier this time around, and I feel it's because of the > >kombucha and the raw milk. I think the liver plays a big role in morning > >sickness. In my uneducated opinion it would be better for me to mildly > >detox while pregnant than to have an overworked liver contanstly unable to > >process poisons, making my entire being feel toxic for the entire pg. > > Here is another source, Eastern European, that states no problems for pg > women, or for children > http://w3.datanet.hu/~akvapol/kombucha/english/kombucha.htm: > >Children who already consume solid food and pregnant women can also drink > >kambucha tea. Pregnant women should avoid pawpaw, but there is no limit > >concerning the amount of [kombucha] tea. For children, mixing the tea with > >fruit juice or mineral water will create a more appealing taste. > > Science used to say that *nothing* can cross the placental barrier, and now > science seems to want to say that *everything* crosses that barrier, > unchanged. A number of people have asserted that KT crosses the placenta > unchanged. I say bogus! It's not some single molecule like a drug that > goes across, it is many different constituents that will be used by the > mother's body and then yes, some things will cross. But to medicalize KT > and claim that it goes across the placenta and gives the fetus diarrhea, or > is " harsh " on the fetus, is speculation pure and simple and I seriously > doubt it. > > I understand that accredited, licensed herbalists, just like licensed > physicians, have to be extremely careful in what they recommend. But I > just seriously do not agree with the idea that giving one's body optimal > nutrition during pregnancy can be anything other than beneficial for the > developing fetus and the lifelong health of the child, and as importantly, > for the health and well-being of the pregnant woman and herself postpartum. > > I have said this before and I will say it again: KT has been being brewed > for thousands of years. In tribal times, before people ever knew what was > in KT or how it worked exactly scientifically, medicine was highly > advanced. People did brain surgery successfully in the stone age, > ok? It's called trephination -- Google it and see. We humans may not have > had microscopes, but human healers are very capable of sophisticated > medicine without the modern science slant. And if anything about KT was > bad for humans, or bad for human reproduction, it would have been stamped > out and we would not have access to it today because without human > nurturance KT could die out completely. > > Unfortunately, today's medical industry is not governed by what is truly > best for society as a whole or the individual, it is first governed by > profit. So we can no longer count on the " healers " of our culture to > protect us from what is dangerous. But in the case of KT, we know that it > has come down to us through the rigorous testing of the ancient tribal > healers, and I truly believe that we can trust that. > > Here is another link on a Mothering > forum: http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php? t=431417 that > discusses the use of kombucha (starts off as a discussion of apple cider > vinegar, kombucha comes in about halfway down the page). Women who are > interested, I would suggest you join the midwifery forum and/or the > mothering forum and get in contact with those who are knowledgeable and > experienced personally on the subject. > > with best wishes, > --V > > > > > ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~ > --A.J. Muste > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 > you totally misunderstood me. No I didn't. I was agreeing that KT made with raw honey would be inappropriate for infants. Of course, no one is proposing giving it to infants under 1 year anyway. That's why focusing on raw honey in relation to a question about breastfeeding seems rather pointless. >Raw honey is healthy and beneficial. It is OK and healthy to make KT >with raw honey unless ... raw honey may contain Clostridium botulinum >spores which has resulted in infant botulism - a serious disorder >requiring hospitalization. Adults with a more developed immune system >will not be affected. > >KT made with raw honey for healthy people is safe. > >Ed Kasper LAc. > ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~ --A.J. Muste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 >I advise against drinking KT while breastfeeding. >According to Roussin kombucha-research.com study repeated by >Cornel University Food Study KT does not contain nutritional food in >any value. So why do it. This argument that KT has no nutritive value is absurd, on its face. I don't care how many scientists have united to speak against it, including yourself. Scientists say that celery has no nutritive value as well, but they are only going to find what they are testing for. It is now known that celery has many valuable (micro)nutrients and is really good for people, especially the stringy parts, the parts that some " nutritionists " and " scientists " have advised people to remove because they " might " be capable of causing indigestion. bogus >Slight side effects reported to me by mothers were dizziness and >faintness. Others have reported those as well. Overall KT is still >safe but " First Do No Harm " supposed to be the physician's motto. And yet others have breastfed with no side effects or discomfort whatsoever. You've said your piece, I've said mine, others have said theirs. To insinuate that mothers are harming their children by drinking kombucha is not borne out by experience. Women need to make educated choices and listen to other women's experiences. I posted some links the other day that include those from the Midwifery Forums. If we listened to the voice of SCIENCE, none of us would be drinking KT at all. --V ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~ --A.J. Muste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 you do not understand the components of kombucha. Kombucha is not " top-notch nutrition " According to research (kombucha-research.com and Cornell University Food study) kombucha contains vitamins and minerals in insufficient amounts to be considered as food or as having nutritional value. Other than a pleasant drink it works in other ways than a simple food. Kombucha is great just not a great food! It is _not_ scare tactics to be mindful that kombucha is a live biological active organism and shxx happens. Kombucha tea is safe and antipathogenic _when_ properly fermented. When I speak of kombucha I am speaking as it applies to acetic acid ferments. Lacto-ferments have different values. Studies on thousands of " kombucha " in the United States (see above) state they found " no lactic acid " in their ferments. This point is important. If you are relying upon the health benefits of a lacto-ferment saying that that it is healthy and has no ill affects does that apply to my kombucha (acetic acid ferment that does not have lactic acid)? , in order to make an informed choice one does have to know what is in their ferment! What's in yours? We could in fact be talking about two different things. As a health care professional I stand by my recommendation not to drink kombucha tea while pregnant or while nursing, or to give to infants and babies. And again, raw honey is fine for kombucha, fine for healthy individuals but not for babies. Ed Kasper LAc. http://happyherbalist.com/analysis_of_kombucha.htm > >Many people use raw honey > >(incredible healing properties) both in fermenting kombucha tea and > >as a nutritional food. In one out of five cases of botulism in > >infants, the infant has eaten raw honey. > > Agreed, the KT should not be made with raw honey. > > >Kombucha is said to detox the body. A typical warning is to drink > >enough water to release those toxins from the body. Toxins normally > >passes through the urine and stool. If one's body is dehydrated then > >those toxins may be released through the skin, sweat, nose and --- > >milk. > > So, be sure to drink enough water. > > > Traditional Chinese Medicine holds that a mother's body (as well as > >the baby) at this time are in a weaken state and needs to be > >strengthen not purged. Kombucha tea does not build the immune > >system - it does assist the system. > > I don't agree. My experience is that with drinking KT, my immune system is > stronger and my whole system is stronger. Recently my partner stopped > drinking KT after a couple of years, and after 3 weeks he got a cold > virus. After not being sick for the two years. We both know it was > because he didn't have the KT. > > > A newborn does not have its own > >immune system as yet and relies on the mothers (and kombucha) until > >its own is developed. If one continues to give kombucha to the baby > >then the babies system never gets fully developed as it continues to > >rely upon kombucha. > > I think this is a specious argument. It's like saying, giving a baby > top-notch nutrition makes the baby addicted to good nutrition. > > >We must also be mindful that kombucha, as in any other live fermented > >food, contains wild and airborne yeasts and bacteria. Also present in > >our air and surroundings are pathogenic yeasts and bacteria like > >E.Coli, Salmonella, Staph and steph. Any pathogenic mould population > >when it becomes visible is simply thrown out. But what about the > >time just before visibility?. > > Scare tactics. > > >Therefore is kombucha tea safe is dependent upon what's in your > >ferment. Not all kombucha's are equal. There are many on this list > >that have a lacto-ferment and they consider their ferment as > >interchangeable with an acetic acid kombucha ferment. I do not. > > This again is your supposition, unproved, going back to the GT's > controversy. It really doesn't belong in this discussion. > > The following is what I've written previously on this subject-- It focuses > on pregnancy, but discusses breastfeeding. It contains links to other > sources, including an Eastern European website; let's remember that Eastern > Europe is has a near-uninterrupted tradition of brewing KT, unlike the USA, > the Americas, most of Western Europe, the UK, etc. That website welcomes > KT drinking by pregnant women and children. I also provide links to the > Midwifery Forums. > > I began by quoting a post by Margret: > >There really is no data that I have ever found that would support > >not drinking Kombucha during pregnancy. As far as I have seen it's all > >theoretical conjecture. > > Margret, I so agree with you here. And I'll go on with some further thoughts: > > Saying that kombucha will make a baby addicted to the immune support of > kombucha is like saying that a pregnant woman getting optimum nutrition > will make the baby addicted to optimum nutrition. It makes no sense to me, > and I strongly feel that that sort of caution against drinking KT during > pregnancy is an overthinkification, or to use the correct word, > overintellectualization. > > Kombucha is a food. The alcohol content is the same as fruit juice, so > avoiding KT during pregnancy out of fear of alcohol would mean that women > shouldn't drink fruit juice during pg? I don't think so. > > Kombucha is a highly nutritious food that gives the body the building > blocks to do with as it pleases. That is the difference between a drug and > a food, is that the body chooses what to do with the substance, it is not > *told* to do with it. > > I've read thousands of words on the internet on this subject over the last > couple days, and most of the references on the net come from the same very > few sources. > > I read (mostly men) telling women that they shouldn't take vitamins, that > they should just " eat a healthy diet " and be in their own skins. The state > of things today in the world we live in, one can't even *get* optimum > nutrition from food, it's all so denatured from demineralization of the > soil and toxics. I indexed a book on fatty acids. When the mother doesn't > have enough fatty acids, the baby gets even less. Each generation of > humans that doesn't have enough fatty acids, the next generation suffers > even more, and the western society diet has been fatty-acid- deficient since > the 1940s. Fatty acids determine intelligence and emotional stability, > among other nerve and brain functioning. So all pregnant women should > supplement for fatty acids. You can't even get enough fatty acids in a diet > anymore. You have to supplement (noto bene: hemp seed oil has the Omegas > in the correct ratio). And then of course there is the folic acid issue. > > Point being, telling pg women not to supplement their diets is absurd. > > Plus, kombucha may detox but it is a *balancer* more than anything. It > provides the body with the constituents to balance itself. > > There are two circumstances I've seen described that I would say merit real > consideration. And those are, an already pregnant woman and an already > nursing woman, coming to KT for the first time. It's been stated that the > release of toxins that the KT may initiate in these first-timers might be > harmful. This argument to me has some merit, but the answer does not have > to be " don't do it " but, do it with caution. From a link from the > Midwifery Forums http://www.midwiferytoday.com/forums/topic.asp? TOPIC_ID=7971: > > > Kombucha is safe in pregnancy, if you begin with tiny amounts and slowly > > work up. That assists your liver in dealing with wht you're eating, > > instead of detoxing. If you begin it before prregnancy, there is no issue > > with continuing. > > and from another post on that forum: > >Kombucha is safe for me because I have been drinking it for several months > >prior to the pg. > > > >I think pg woman with no prior use of kombucha could get good benefits > >from slowly adding it -- drinking it like the vinegar water: just a splash > >of kombucha in a cup of water. I do that at night because I'm limiting the > >kombucha consumption to about 16 oz a day, but I have a " high tolerance " > >built up. > > > >I really feel much better this time around. I started off with the all day > >morning sickness but I'm truly able to control it with the kombucha, I > >believe. It helps me eat! And I have time periods when I actually feel > >good. But who knows why really? > > > >I'm definitely healthier this time around, and I feel it's because of the > >kombucha and the raw milk. I think the liver plays a big role in morning > >sickness. In my uneducated opinion it would be better for me to mildly > >detox while pregnant than to have an overworked liver contanstly unable to > >process poisons, making my entire being feel toxic for the entire pg. > > Here is another source, Eastern European, that states no problems for pg > women, or for children > http://w3.datanet.hu/~akvapol/kombucha/english/kombucha.htm: > >Children who already consume solid food and pregnant women can also drink > >kambucha tea. Pregnant women should avoid pawpaw, but there is no limit > >concerning the amount of [kombucha] tea. For children, mixing the tea with > >fruit juice or mineral water will create a more appealing taste. > > Science used to say that *nothing* can cross the placental barrier, and now > science seems to want to say that *everything* crosses that barrier, > unchanged. A number of people have asserted that KT crosses the placenta > unchanged. I say bogus! It's not some single molecule like a drug that > goes across, it is many different constituents that will be used by the > mother's body and then yes, some things will cross. But to medicalize KT > and claim that it goes across the placenta and gives the fetus diarrhea, or > is " harsh " on the fetus, is speculation pure and simple and I seriously > doubt it. > > I understand that accredited, licensed herbalists, just like licensed > physicians, have to be extremely careful in what they recommend. But I > just seriously do not agree with the idea that giving one's body optimal > nutrition during pregnancy can be anything other than beneficial for the > developing fetus and the lifelong health of the child, and as importantly, > for the health and well-being of the pregnant woman and herself postpartum. > > I have said this before and I will say it again: KT has been being brewed > for thousands of years. In tribal times, before people ever knew what was > in KT or how it worked exactly scientifically, medicine was highly > advanced. People did brain surgery successfully in the stone age, > ok? It's called trephination -- Google it and see. We humans may not have > had microscopes, but human healers are very capable of sophisticated > medicine without the modern science slant. And if anything about KT was > bad for humans, or bad for human reproduction, it would have been stamped > out and we would not have access to it today because without human > nurturance KT could die out completely. > > Unfortunately, today's medical industry is not governed by what is truly > best for society as a whole or the individual, it is first governed by > profit. So we can no longer count on the " healers " of our culture to > protect us from what is dangerous. But in the case of KT, we know that it > has come down to us through the rigorous testing of the ancient tribal > healers, and I truly believe that we can trust that. > > Here is another link on a Mothering > forum: http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php? t=431417 that > discusses the use of kombucha (starts off as a discussion of apple cider > vinegar, kombucha comes in about halfway down the page). Women who are > interested, I would suggest you join the midwifery forum and/or the > mothering forum and get in contact with those who are knowledgeable and > experienced personally on the subject. > > with best wishes, > --V > > > > > ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~ > --A.J. Muste > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Ed, through many years you have guided us wisely and diligently in the course of KT. As a care giver you have never in my opinion steered us wrong. As a Medicinal Herbalist I know you practice homeopathy and are a member of SOHNA, the Society Of Homotoxicology of North America. I have always been impressed with the fact that if you did not have the answer yourself, you researched for us and always came to a responsible decision to share with us as well as listing your resources. Therefor, I tend to agree with your evaluation of this subject. Why would one even consider taking a chance with the life of a newborn? I am not saying here that it should not be done but why do it if there is the remotest chance that it could in any way harm an infant? Strictly just my opinion, Myrna > > >Many people use raw honey > > >(incredible healing properties) both in fermenting kombucha tea and > > >as a nutritional food. In one out of five cases of botulism in > > >infants, the infant has eaten raw honey. > > > > Agreed, the KT should not be made with raw honey. > > > > >Kombucha is said to detox the body. A typical warning is to drink > > >enough water to release those toxins from the body. Toxins normally > > >passes through the urine and stool. If one's body is dehydrated > then > > >those toxins may be released through the skin, sweat, nose and -- - > > >milk. > > > > So, be sure to drink enough water. > > > > > Traditional Chinese Medicine holds that a mother's body (as well > as > > >the baby) at this time are in a weaken state and needs to be > > >strengthen not purged. Kombucha tea does not build the immune > > >system - it does assist the system. > > > > I don't agree. My experience is that with drinking KT, my immune > system is > > stronger and my whole system is stronger. Recently my partner > stopped > > drinking KT after a couple of years, and after 3 weeks he got a > cold > > virus. After not being sick for the two years. We both know it > was > > because he didn't have the KT. > > > > > A newborn does not have its own > > >immune system as yet and relies on the mothers (and kombucha) until > > >its own is developed. If one continues to give kombucha to the baby > > >then the babies system never gets fully developed as it continues > to > > >rely upon kombucha. > > > > I think this is a specious argument. It's like saying, giving a > baby > > top-notch nutrition makes the baby addicted to good nutrition. > > > > >We must also be mindful that kombucha, as in any other live > fermented > > >food, contains wild and airborne yeasts and bacteria. Also present > in > > >our air and surroundings are pathogenic yeasts and bacteria like > > >E.Coli, Salmonella, Staph and steph. Any pathogenic mould > population > > >when it becomes visible is simply thrown out. But what about the > > >time just before visibility?. > > > > Scare tactics. > > > > >Therefore is kombucha tea safe is dependent upon what's in your > > >ferment. Not all kombucha's are equal. There are many on this list > > >that have a lacto-ferment and they consider their ferment as > > >interchangeable with an acetic acid kombucha ferment. I do not. > > > > This again is your supposition, unproved, going back to the GT's > > controversy. It really doesn't belong in this discussion. > > > > The following is what I've written previously on this subject-- It > focuses > > on pregnancy, but discusses breastfeeding. It contains links to > other > > sources, including an Eastern European website; let's remember that > Eastern > > Europe is has a near-uninterrupted tradition of brewing KT, unlike > the USA, > > the Americas, most of Western Europe, the UK, etc. That website > welcomes > > KT drinking by pregnant women and children. I also provide links > to the > > Midwifery Forums. > > > > I began by quoting a post by Margret: > > >There really is no data that I have ever found that would support > > >not drinking Kombucha during pregnancy. As far as I have seen > it's all > > >theoretical conjecture. > > > > Margret, I so agree with you here. And I'll go on with some > further thoughts: > > > > Saying that kombucha will make a baby addicted to the immune > support of > > kombucha is like saying that a pregnant woman getting optimum > nutrition > > will make the baby addicted to optimum nutrition. It makes no > sense to me, > > and I strongly feel that that sort of caution against drinking KT > during > > pregnancy is an overthinkification, or to use the correct word, > > overintellectualization. > > > > Kombucha is a food. The alcohol content is the same as fruit > juice, so > > avoiding KT during pregnancy out of fear of alcohol would mean that > women > > shouldn't drink fruit juice during pg? I don't think so. > > > > Kombucha is a highly nutritious food that gives the body the > building > > blocks to do with as it pleases. That is the difference between a > drug and > > a food, is that the body chooses what to do with the substance, it > is not > > *told* to do with it. > > > > I've read thousands of words on the internet on this subject over > the last > > couple days, and most of the references on the net come from the > same very > > few sources. > > > > I read (mostly men) telling women that they shouldn't take > vitamins, that > > they should just " eat a healthy diet " and be in their own skins. > The state > > of things today in the world we live in, one can't even *get* > optimum > > nutrition from food, it's all so denatured from demineralization of > the > > soil and toxics. I indexed a book on fatty acids. When the mother > doesn't > > have enough fatty acids, the baby gets even less. Each generation > of > > humans that doesn't have enough fatty acids, the next generation > suffers > > even more, and the western society diet has been fatty-acid- > deficient since > > the 1940s. Fatty acids determine intelligence and emotional > stability, > > among other nerve and brain functioning. So all pregnant women > should > > supplement for fatty acids. You can't even get enough fatty acids > in a diet > > anymore. You have to supplement (noto bene: hemp seed oil has the > Omegas > > in the correct ratio). And then of course there is the folic acid > issue. > > > > Point being, telling pg women not to supplement their diets is > absurd. > > > > Plus, kombucha may detox but it is a *balancer* more than > anything. It > > provides the body with the constituents to balance itself. > > > > There are two circumstances I've seen described that I would say > merit real > > consideration. And those are, an already pregnant woman and an > already > > nursing woman, coming to KT for the first time. It's been stated > that the > > release of toxins that the KT may initiate in these first-timers > might be > > harmful. This argument to me has some merit, but the answer does > not have > > to be " don't do it " but, do it with caution. From a link from the > > Midwifery Forums http://www.midwiferytoday.com/forums/topic.asp? > TOPIC_ID=7971: > > > > > Kombucha is safe in pregnancy, if you begin with tiny amounts > and slowly > > > work up. That assists your liver in dealing with wht you're > eating, > > > instead of detoxing. If you begin it before prregnancy, there is > no issue > > > with continuing. > > > > and from another post on that forum: > > >Kombucha is safe for me because I have been drinking it for > several months > > >prior to the pg. > > > > > >I think pg woman with no prior use of kombucha could get good > benefits > > >from slowly adding it -- drinking it like the vinegar water: just > a splash > > >of kombucha in a cup of water. I do that at night because I'm > limiting the > > >kombucha consumption to about 16 oz a day, but I have a " high > tolerance " > > >built up. > > > > > >I really feel much better this time around. I started off with > the all day > > >morning sickness but I'm truly able to control it with the > kombucha, I > > >believe. It helps me eat! And I have time periods when I actually > feel > > >good. But who knows why really? > > > > > >I'm definitely healthier this time around, and I feel it's > because of the > > >kombucha and the raw milk. I think the liver plays a big role in > morning > > >sickness. In my uneducated opinion it would be better for me to > mildly > > >detox while pregnant than to have an overworked liver contanstly > unable to > > >process poisons, making my entire being feel toxic for the entire > pg. > > > > Here is another source, Eastern European, that states no problems > for pg > > women, or for children > > http://w3.datanet.hu/~akvapol/kombucha/english/kombucha.htm: > > >Children who already consume solid food and pregnant women can > also drink > > >kambucha tea. Pregnant women should avoid pawpaw, but there is no > limit > > >concerning the amount of [kombucha] tea. For children, mixing the > tea with > > >fruit juice or mineral water will create a more appealing taste. > > > > Science used to say that *nothing* can cross the placental barrier, > and now > > science seems to want to say that *everything* crosses that barrier, > > unchanged. A number of people have asserted that KT crosses the > placenta > > unchanged. I say bogus! It's not some single molecule like a drug > that > > goes across, it is many different constituents that will be used by > the > > mother's body and then yes, some things will cross. But to > medicalize KT > > and claim that it goes across the placenta and gives the fetus > diarrhea, or > > is " harsh " on the fetus, is speculation pure and simple and I > seriously > > doubt it. > > > > I understand that accredited, licensed herbalists, just like > licensed > > physicians, have to be extremely careful in what they recommend. > But I > > just seriously do not agree with the idea that giving one's body > optimal > > nutrition during pregnancy can be anything other than beneficial > for the > > developing fetus and the lifelong health of the child, and as > importantly, > > for the health and well-being of the pregnant woman and herself > postpartum. > > > > I have said this before and I will say it again: KT has been being > brewed > > for thousands of years. In tribal times, before people ever knew > what was > > in KT or how it worked exactly scientifically, medicine was highly > > advanced. People did brain surgery successfully in the stone age, > > ok? It's called trephination -- Google it and see. We humans may > not have > > had microscopes, but human healers are very capable of sophisticated > > medicine without the modern science slant. And if anything about > KT was > > bad for humans, or bad for human reproduction, it would have been > stamped > > out and we would not have access to it today because without human > > nurturance KT could die out completely. > > > > Unfortunately, today's medical industry is not governed by what is > truly > > best for society as a whole or the individual, it is first governed > by > > profit. So we can no longer count on the " healers " of our culture > to > > protect us from what is dangerous. But in the case of KT, we know > that it > > has come down to us through the rigorous testing of the ancient > tribal > > healers, and I truly believe that we can trust that. > > > > Here is another link on a Mothering > > forum: http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php? > t=431417 that > > discusses the use of kombucha (starts off as a discussion of apple > cider > > vinegar, kombucha comes in about halfway down the page). Women who > are > > interested, I would suggest you join the midwifery forum and/or the > > mothering forum and get in contact with those who are knowledgeable > and > > experienced personally on the subject. > > > > with best wishes, > > --V > > > > > > > > > > ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~ > > --A.J. Muste > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Ed, through many years you have guided us wisely and diligently in the course of KT. As a care giver you have never in my opinion steered us wrong. As a Medicinal Herbalist I know you practice homeopathy and are a member of SOHNA, the Society Of Homotoxicology of North America. I have always been impressed with the fact that if you did not have the answer yourself, you researched for us and always came to a responsible decision to share with us as well as listing your resources. Therefor, I tend to agree with your evaluation of this subject. Why would one even consider taking a chance with the life of a newborn? I am not saying here that it should not be done but why do it if there is the remotest chance that it could in any way harm an infant? Strictly just my opinion, Myrna > > >Many people use raw honey > > >(incredible healing properties) both in fermenting kombucha tea and > > >as a nutritional food. In one out of five cases of botulism in > > >infants, the infant has eaten raw honey. > > > > Agreed, the KT should not be made with raw honey. > > > > >Kombucha is said to detox the body. A typical warning is to drink > > >enough water to release those toxins from the body. Toxins normally > > >passes through the urine and stool. If one's body is dehydrated > then > > >those toxins may be released through the skin, sweat, nose and -- - > > >milk. > > > > So, be sure to drink enough water. > > > > > Traditional Chinese Medicine holds that a mother's body (as well > as > > >the baby) at this time are in a weaken state and needs to be > > >strengthen not purged. Kombucha tea does not build the immune > > >system - it does assist the system. > > > > I don't agree. My experience is that with drinking KT, my immune > system is > > stronger and my whole system is stronger. Recently my partner > stopped > > drinking KT after a couple of years, and after 3 weeks he got a > cold > > virus. After not being sick for the two years. We both know it > was > > because he didn't have the KT. > > > > > A newborn does not have its own > > >immune system as yet and relies on the mothers (and kombucha) until > > >its own is developed. If one continues to give kombucha to the baby > > >then the babies system never gets fully developed as it continues > to > > >rely upon kombucha. > > > > I think this is a specious argument. It's like saying, giving a > baby > > top-notch nutrition makes the baby addicted to good nutrition. > > > > >We must also be mindful that kombucha, as in any other live > fermented > > >food, contains wild and airborne yeasts and bacteria. Also present > in > > >our air and surroundings are pathogenic yeasts and bacteria like > > >E.Coli, Salmonella, Staph and steph. Any pathogenic mould > population > > >when it becomes visible is simply thrown out. But what about the > > >time just before visibility?. > > > > Scare tactics. > > > > >Therefore is kombucha tea safe is dependent upon what's in your > > >ferment. Not all kombucha's are equal. There are many on this list > > >that have a lacto-ferment and they consider their ferment as > > >interchangeable with an acetic acid kombucha ferment. I do not. > > > > This again is your supposition, unproved, going back to the GT's > > controversy. It really doesn't belong in this discussion. > > > > The following is what I've written previously on this subject-- It > focuses > > on pregnancy, but discusses breastfeeding. It contains links to > other > > sources, including an Eastern European website; let's remember that > Eastern > > Europe is has a near-uninterrupted tradition of brewing KT, unlike > the USA, > > the Americas, most of Western Europe, the UK, etc. That website > welcomes > > KT drinking by pregnant women and children. I also provide links > to the > > Midwifery Forums. > > > > I began by quoting a post by Margret: > > >There really is no data that I have ever found that would support > > >not drinking Kombucha during pregnancy. As far as I have seen > it's all > > >theoretical conjecture. > > > > Margret, I so agree with you here. And I'll go on with some > further thoughts: > > > > Saying that kombucha will make a baby addicted to the immune > support of > > kombucha is like saying that a pregnant woman getting optimum > nutrition > > will make the baby addicted to optimum nutrition. It makes no > sense to me, > > and I strongly feel that that sort of caution against drinking KT > during > > pregnancy is an overthinkification, or to use the correct word, > > overintellectualization. > > > > Kombucha is a food. The alcohol content is the same as fruit > juice, so > > avoiding KT during pregnancy out of fear of alcohol would mean that > women > > shouldn't drink fruit juice during pg? I don't think so. > > > > Kombucha is a highly nutritious food that gives the body the > building > > blocks to do with as it pleases. That is the difference between a > drug and > > a food, is that the body chooses what to do with the substance, it > is not > > *told* to do with it. > > > > I've read thousands of words on the internet on this subject over > the last > > couple days, and most of the references on the net come from the > same very > > few sources. > > > > I read (mostly men) telling women that they shouldn't take > vitamins, that > > they should just " eat a healthy diet " and be in their own skins. > The state > > of things today in the world we live in, one can't even *get* > optimum > > nutrition from food, it's all so denatured from demineralization of > the > > soil and toxics. I indexed a book on fatty acids. When the mother > doesn't > > have enough fatty acids, the baby gets even less. Each generation > of > > humans that doesn't have enough fatty acids, the next generation > suffers > > even more, and the western society diet has been fatty-acid- > deficient since > > the 1940s. Fatty acids determine intelligence and emotional > stability, > > among other nerve and brain functioning. So all pregnant women > should > > supplement for fatty acids. You can't even get enough fatty acids > in a diet > > anymore. You have to supplement (noto bene: hemp seed oil has the > Omegas > > in the correct ratio). And then of course there is the folic acid > issue. > > > > Point being, telling pg women not to supplement their diets is > absurd. > > > > Plus, kombucha may detox but it is a *balancer* more than > anything. It > > provides the body with the constituents to balance itself. > > > > There are two circumstances I've seen described that I would say > merit real > > consideration. And those are, an already pregnant woman and an > already > > nursing woman, coming to KT for the first time. It's been stated > that the > > release of toxins that the KT may initiate in these first-timers > might be > > harmful. This argument to me has some merit, but the answer does > not have > > to be " don't do it " but, do it with caution. From a link from the > > Midwifery Forums http://www.midwiferytoday.com/forums/topic.asp? > TOPIC_ID=7971: > > > > > Kombucha is safe in pregnancy, if you begin with tiny amounts > and slowly > > > work up. That assists your liver in dealing with wht you're > eating, > > > instead of detoxing. If you begin it before prregnancy, there is > no issue > > > with continuing. > > > > and from another post on that forum: > > >Kombucha is safe for me because I have been drinking it for > several months > > >prior to the pg. > > > > > >I think pg woman with no prior use of kombucha could get good > benefits > > >from slowly adding it -- drinking it like the vinegar water: just > a splash > > >of kombucha in a cup of water. I do that at night because I'm > limiting the > > >kombucha consumption to about 16 oz a day, but I have a " high > tolerance " > > >built up. > > > > > >I really feel much better this time around. I started off with > the all day > > >morning sickness but I'm truly able to control it with the > kombucha, I > > >believe. It helps me eat! And I have time periods when I actually > feel > > >good. But who knows why really? > > > > > >I'm definitely healthier this time around, and I feel it's > because of the > > >kombucha and the raw milk. I think the liver plays a big role in > morning > > >sickness. In my uneducated opinion it would be better for me to > mildly > > >detox while pregnant than to have an overworked liver contanstly > unable to > > >process poisons, making my entire being feel toxic for the entire > pg. > > > > Here is another source, Eastern European, that states no problems > for pg > > women, or for children > > http://w3.datanet.hu/~akvapol/kombucha/english/kombucha.htm: > > >Children who already consume solid food and pregnant women can > also drink > > >kambucha tea. Pregnant women should avoid pawpaw, but there is no > limit > > >concerning the amount of [kombucha] tea. For children, mixing the > tea with > > >fruit juice or mineral water will create a more appealing taste. > > > > Science used to say that *nothing* can cross the placental barrier, > and now > > science seems to want to say that *everything* crosses that barrier, > > unchanged. A number of people have asserted that KT crosses the > placenta > > unchanged. I say bogus! It's not some single molecule like a drug > that > > goes across, it is many different constituents that will be used by > the > > mother's body and then yes, some things will cross. But to > medicalize KT > > and claim that it goes across the placenta and gives the fetus > diarrhea, or > > is " harsh " on the fetus, is speculation pure and simple and I > seriously > > doubt it. > > > > I understand that accredited, licensed herbalists, just like > licensed > > physicians, have to be extremely careful in what they recommend. > But I > > just seriously do not agree with the idea that giving one's body > optimal > > nutrition during pregnancy can be anything other than beneficial > for the > > developing fetus and the lifelong health of the child, and as > importantly, > > for the health and well-being of the pregnant woman and herself > postpartum. > > > > I have said this before and I will say it again: KT has been being > brewed > > for thousands of years. In tribal times, before people ever knew > what was > > in KT or how it worked exactly scientifically, medicine was highly > > advanced. People did brain surgery successfully in the stone age, > > ok? It's called trephination -- Google it and see. We humans may > not have > > had microscopes, but human healers are very capable of sophisticated > > medicine without the modern science slant. And if anything about > KT was > > bad for humans, or bad for human reproduction, it would have been > stamped > > out and we would not have access to it today because without human > > nurturance KT could die out completely. > > > > Unfortunately, today's medical industry is not governed by what is > truly > > best for society as a whole or the individual, it is first governed > by > > profit. So we can no longer count on the " healers " of our culture > to > > protect us from what is dangerous. But in the case of KT, we know > that it > > has come down to us through the rigorous testing of the ancient > tribal > > healers, and I truly believe that we can trust that. > > > > Here is another link on a Mothering > > forum: http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php? > t=431417 that > > discusses the use of kombucha (starts off as a discussion of apple > cider > > vinegar, kombucha comes in about halfway down the page). Women who > are > > interested, I would suggest you join the midwifery forum and/or the > > mothering forum and get in contact with those who are knowledgeable > and > > experienced personally on the subject. > > > > with best wishes, > > --V > > > > > > > > > > ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~ > > --A.J. Muste > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Ed wrote: > you do not understand the components of kombucha. Ed, you seem to have a habit of not really reading my posts, so I would really appreciate it if you'd read my whole response this time. >Kombucha is not " top-notch nutrition " You took my statement out of context, which I won't take the space to clarify here. But to elaborate, based on my own experience with kombucha (more on this point later), I have noticed that with KT in my diet, I utilize my food more completely, I am in better shape physically, I have less pain overall, I have far superior energy overall. I have been finding greater and great efficacy in my health program, and a growing capacity for engagement with my life on every level. Therefore I do call kombucha part of a program for top nutrition. Nearly all persons in Western society have digestive disturbances of one kind or another due to poor diet and demineralization of the soil among other factors leading to poor general health. Kombucha helps one digest food and assimilate nutrients, therefore it is very helpful to overall health and nutrition. Plus it contains organic acids that are building blocks to health-- giving the body elements it needs, to use as it sees fit-- in other words, food. I use the word nutrition in the orthomolecular dietary therapy sense: that optimal (top-notch) nutrition is achieved through a combination of factors, many of which are still not recognized by Western medicine and the science on which it depends, including Western, conventionally trained nutritionists. Some of those factors are micro-nutrients and other substances that science chooses to assume don't matter, others are such things as assimilation through digestion. Optimal health and nutrition means the organism thrives, not just meets some minimal standard set by Western science to prevent disastrous illness (and not challenge Industry by requiring decent nutritional levels of food they sell). >According to research (kombucha-research.com and Cornell University >Food study) kombucha contains vitamins and minerals in insufficient >amounts to be considered as food or as having nutritional value. >Other than a pleasant drink it works in other ways than a simple >food. Kombucha is great just not a great food! These statements say to me that you subscribe to the Western Medical view of nutrition. As you may have surmised, I do not subscribe to it. Although I do not have scientific credentials, I do have some knowledge based on decades of trial and observation in myself and others, plus extensive reading and formal study in alternative health subjects and the history of health. And in my work life, I have indexed and edited many books in the alternative health field. >It is _not_ scare tactics to be mindful that kombucha is a live >biological active organism and shxx happens. Kombucha tea is safe >and antipathogenic _when_ properly fermented. Kombucha is incredibly strong as a culture. People don't die of yogurt poisoning, and they don't die of kombucha poisoning. It _is_ scare tactics to pretend that people die of fermented foods. And, I don't think anyone is discussing drinking KT that is not properly fermented. >When I speak of kombucha I am speaking as it applies to acetic acid >ferments. Lacto-ferments have different values. Studies on thousands >of " kombucha " in the United States (see above) Roussin states 887, not " thousands " . > state they found " no >lactic acid " in their ferments. This point is important. If you are >relying upon the health benefits of a lacto-ferment saying that that >it is healthy and has no ill affects does that apply to my kombucha >(acetic acid ferment that does not have lactic acid)? > >, in order to make an informed choice one does have to know >what is in their ferment! What's in yours? We could in fact be >talking about two different things. This is where you reveal that you don't read my posts. I've said several times, and recently again, that my culture came from a local woman who gave me one of her extra SCOBYs. You keep talking to me as if I have a culture grown from a GTs culture, the ones you are proclaiming aren't really kombucha. Well, you are wrong. My own culture did not derive from the GTs brand. And, I believe you are also wrong that GTs is not kombucha. If kombucha were so corruptible, we would not have a kombucha culture at all, if it were so easily changed into a dangerous and scary mutant. The label of GTs, as you have observed, is very highly engineered for marketability. That doesn't mean it isn't actually kombucha. But it does mean that all statements on the label are very carefully considered. I asked GT Dave himself about the " Lactobacillus Bacterium " label, and he told me directly that it is an aceto ferment and that the bacteria in kombucha can be categorized in the Lactobacillus Bacterium family (and the way it is written makes it clear this refers to a family or organisms, not a specific organism: the capitalized, singular form). Ed, you keep saying that this label proves GTs is a lacto-ferment, and I keep saying that the label itself doesn't prove that. When I inquired recently about the GTs analysis you announced several months ago that you were having done, you said you'd decided against it because you didn't know whether to have the bottled stuff analyzed, or stuff that had been brewed from a culture derived from it. All that matters is what is in the bottle on the shelf. We can assume that whatever is grown from GTs is going be a reasonable facsimile of the brew in the bottle. That is generally what happens. -->> So I say, SHOW ME a verifiable lab analysis that indicates GTs is not an aceto-ferment, and I'll be the first to warn people about it, any chance I can get. I had a series of email correspondence with GT Dave, and I checked out their website. I see no reason not to trust that when he says it's an aceto-ferment kombucha, that's what it is, particularly since it tastes like KT I've tasted from several other sources. I realize that you do see reason not to trust that it an aceto-ferment, but I'm not convinced, and because I think you may have a conflict of interest in making this claim, I say: show me the lab report. I don't see why Dr. Sklenar's formula, which claims not to be pasteurized but apparently will not grow a healthy, reproducible culture, is immune to these kinds of claims against it. And Kombucha Wonder Drink is pasteurized but doesn't make that clear on the bottle, and no one is railing against them on this list. But GTs, which did indeed research and strategize its marketing very carefully, and for which they need feel no shame, is being a wild success. Moreover, the culture does grow and reproduce true. As such, they are spreading KT widely, a great benefit. Unless, as you say, it's not a true kombucha. So please, show me the lab report and let's get it settled one way or another. Again, I repeat, my culture is not from GTs. My culture was handed to me directly from a local brewer, who got hers from another long-established local brewer. I first heard that people were growing cultures from GTs when friends of mine announced they had done it, and then several people on this list announced they had done it, or were going to, and some of them asked for info on how to do it. I offered a recipe based on my knowledge of brewing at home. That's my connection with it, period. >As a health care professional I stand by my recommendation not to >drink kombucha tea while pregnant or while nursing, or to give to >infants and babies. Yes, you've made that clear, Ed. However, you're not the only health care professional on this list, and there are health care professionals, both on and off this list, that are fine with women drinking kombucha during pregnancy and while nursing. It's particularly not a problem for women who have already been drinking it. Women who want to begin while already pregnant or nursing because they have learned of its ability to assist with morning sickness and other physical discomforts, even at low levels of intake (couple tablespoons a day), need to start very very slowly taking it in with food and diluted with water, just a teaspoonful. http://www.midwiferytoday.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7971 (I would suggest interested women open a new inquiry about KT on that forum.) I can *GUARANTEE* that kombucha is better for a pregnant or nursing mother than Coke and Diet Coke. I think somewhere in this discussion the health and well-being of the mother has been overlooked in favor of theorizing that is not borne out in practice. I also think that this discussion ignores the reality of the state of nutrition and health in Western culture-- that is to say-- extremely poor and needs all the help it can get. I also remind the list that we have had women report here that they were able to get pregnant after beginning with KT, whereas they previously could not get pregnant. Those women reported drinking it throughout the resulting pregnancy. --V ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~ --A.J. Muste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Ed wrote: > you do not understand the components of kombucha. Ed, you seem to have a habit of not really reading my posts, so I would really appreciate it if you'd read my whole response this time. >Kombucha is not " top-notch nutrition " You took my statement out of context, which I won't take the space to clarify here. But to elaborate, based on my own experience with kombucha (more on this point later), I have noticed that with KT in my diet, I utilize my food more completely, I am in better shape physically, I have less pain overall, I have far superior energy overall. I have been finding greater and great efficacy in my health program, and a growing capacity for engagement with my life on every level. Therefore I do call kombucha part of a program for top nutrition. Nearly all persons in Western society have digestive disturbances of one kind or another due to poor diet and demineralization of the soil among other factors leading to poor general health. Kombucha helps one digest food and assimilate nutrients, therefore it is very helpful to overall health and nutrition. Plus it contains organic acids that are building blocks to health-- giving the body elements it needs, to use as it sees fit-- in other words, food. I use the word nutrition in the orthomolecular dietary therapy sense: that optimal (top-notch) nutrition is achieved through a combination of factors, many of which are still not recognized by Western medicine and the science on which it depends, including Western, conventionally trained nutritionists. Some of those factors are micro-nutrients and other substances that science chooses to assume don't matter, others are such things as assimilation through digestion. Optimal health and nutrition means the organism thrives, not just meets some minimal standard set by Western science to prevent disastrous illness (and not challenge Industry by requiring decent nutritional levels of food they sell). >According to research (kombucha-research.com and Cornell University >Food study) kombucha contains vitamins and minerals in insufficient >amounts to be considered as food or as having nutritional value. >Other than a pleasant drink it works in other ways than a simple >food. Kombucha is great just not a great food! These statements say to me that you subscribe to the Western Medical view of nutrition. As you may have surmised, I do not subscribe to it. Although I do not have scientific credentials, I do have some knowledge based on decades of trial and observation in myself and others, plus extensive reading and formal study in alternative health subjects and the history of health. And in my work life, I have indexed and edited many books in the alternative health field. >It is _not_ scare tactics to be mindful that kombucha is a live >biological active organism and shxx happens. Kombucha tea is safe >and antipathogenic _when_ properly fermented. Kombucha is incredibly strong as a culture. People don't die of yogurt poisoning, and they don't die of kombucha poisoning. It _is_ scare tactics to pretend that people die of fermented foods. And, I don't think anyone is discussing drinking KT that is not properly fermented. >When I speak of kombucha I am speaking as it applies to acetic acid >ferments. Lacto-ferments have different values. Studies on thousands >of " kombucha " in the United States (see above) Roussin states 887, not " thousands " . > state they found " no >lactic acid " in their ferments. This point is important. If you are >relying upon the health benefits of a lacto-ferment saying that that >it is healthy and has no ill affects does that apply to my kombucha >(acetic acid ferment that does not have lactic acid)? > >, in order to make an informed choice one does have to know >what is in their ferment! What's in yours? We could in fact be >talking about two different things. This is where you reveal that you don't read my posts. I've said several times, and recently again, that my culture came from a local woman who gave me one of her extra SCOBYs. You keep talking to me as if I have a culture grown from a GTs culture, the ones you are proclaiming aren't really kombucha. Well, you are wrong. My own culture did not derive from the GTs brand. And, I believe you are also wrong that GTs is not kombucha. If kombucha were so corruptible, we would not have a kombucha culture at all, if it were so easily changed into a dangerous and scary mutant. The label of GTs, as you have observed, is very highly engineered for marketability. That doesn't mean it isn't actually kombucha. But it does mean that all statements on the label are very carefully considered. I asked GT Dave himself about the " Lactobacillus Bacterium " label, and he told me directly that it is an aceto ferment and that the bacteria in kombucha can be categorized in the Lactobacillus Bacterium family (and the way it is written makes it clear this refers to a family or organisms, not a specific organism: the capitalized, singular form). Ed, you keep saying that this label proves GTs is a lacto-ferment, and I keep saying that the label itself doesn't prove that. When I inquired recently about the GTs analysis you announced several months ago that you were having done, you said you'd decided against it because you didn't know whether to have the bottled stuff analyzed, or stuff that had been brewed from a culture derived from it. All that matters is what is in the bottle on the shelf. We can assume that whatever is grown from GTs is going be a reasonable facsimile of the brew in the bottle. That is generally what happens. -->> So I say, SHOW ME a verifiable lab analysis that indicates GTs is not an aceto-ferment, and I'll be the first to warn people about it, any chance I can get. I had a series of email correspondence with GT Dave, and I checked out their website. I see no reason not to trust that when he says it's an aceto-ferment kombucha, that's what it is, particularly since it tastes like KT I've tasted from several other sources. I realize that you do see reason not to trust that it an aceto-ferment, but I'm not convinced, and because I think you may have a conflict of interest in making this claim, I say: show me the lab report. I don't see why Dr. Sklenar's formula, which claims not to be pasteurized but apparently will not grow a healthy, reproducible culture, is immune to these kinds of claims against it. And Kombucha Wonder Drink is pasteurized but doesn't make that clear on the bottle, and no one is railing against them on this list. But GTs, which did indeed research and strategize its marketing very carefully, and for which they need feel no shame, is being a wild success. Moreover, the culture does grow and reproduce true. As such, they are spreading KT widely, a great benefit. Unless, as you say, it's not a true kombucha. So please, show me the lab report and let's get it settled one way or another. Again, I repeat, my culture is not from GTs. My culture was handed to me directly from a local brewer, who got hers from another long-established local brewer. I first heard that people were growing cultures from GTs when friends of mine announced they had done it, and then several people on this list announced they had done it, or were going to, and some of them asked for info on how to do it. I offered a recipe based on my knowledge of brewing at home. That's my connection with it, period. >As a health care professional I stand by my recommendation not to >drink kombucha tea while pregnant or while nursing, or to give to >infants and babies. Yes, you've made that clear, Ed. However, you're not the only health care professional on this list, and there are health care professionals, both on and off this list, that are fine with women drinking kombucha during pregnancy and while nursing. It's particularly not a problem for women who have already been drinking it. Women who want to begin while already pregnant or nursing because they have learned of its ability to assist with morning sickness and other physical discomforts, even at low levels of intake (couple tablespoons a day), need to start very very slowly taking it in with food and diluted with water, just a teaspoonful. http://www.midwiferytoday.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7971 (I would suggest interested women open a new inquiry about KT on that forum.) I can *GUARANTEE* that kombucha is better for a pregnant or nursing mother than Coke and Diet Coke. I think somewhere in this discussion the health and well-being of the mother has been overlooked in favor of theorizing that is not borne out in practice. I also think that this discussion ignores the reality of the state of nutrition and health in Western culture-- that is to say-- extremely poor and needs all the help it can get. I also remind the list that we have had women report here that they were able to get pregnant after beginning with KT, whereas they previously could not get pregnant. Those women reported drinking it throughout the resulting pregnancy. --V ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~ --A.J. Muste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Hi Ed, and Virginia Reading Dominic's pages concerning use of honey, it should be pasterized so it will not compete with the things in the kombucha. My question is, is it then okay to feed small children? just a curious question. Isn't the stuff we buy in the stores pasturized? unless organic bought. Audrey <snippet>> > Ed wrote: > >Many people use raw honey > >(incredible healing properties) both in fermenting kombucha tea and > >as a nutritional food. In one out of five cases of botulism in > >infants, the infant has eaten raw honey. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Hi Virginia! was great meeting you--she is a sweetie. On Dominic's site their is a recipe he does for a mead of kombucha/honey I made before, it was very nice. Audrey <snippet> > > Hi, I'm new to this list. I am just starting out, got a starter from > Audrey on Saturday. I was just wondering if anyone knows if it is > safe to drink while breastfeeding. I asked some other people and the > only thing the could think of would be the caffeine (which isn't bad, > is just passed to my son via bm). I am hoping someone here will have > a more sure answer. Thanks! > > ~Virginia > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 >Reading Dominic's pages concerning use of honey, it should be >pasterized so it will not compete with the things in the kombucha. My >question is, is it then okay to feed small children? just a curious >question. Isn't the stuff we buy in the stores pasturized? unless >organic bought. >Audrey Audrey, generally supermarket-bought honey is pasteurized, but not always. If it stays liquid and doesn't crystalize, it's pasteurized. However, children over 1 year of age can have honey, pasteurized or not. That is the general guideline and all sources agree on it from the USDA to the FDA to natural food enthusiasts. --V ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~ --A.J. Muste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 " If it stays liquid and doesn't crystalize, it's pasteurized. " this is not necessarily true, I have bees, honey made from some flowers crystalizes easily, other slowly.my last years honey (raw) never crystalized, this years (also raw) is already nearly solid, and I have gotten pasturized honey from the store that crystalized very quickly, you cannot use that as a guide to whether honey is raw or not, make sure you read the lable, I would not give a baby under a year any honey, just to be sure. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Thanks for the clarification, Pam. I think the advice not to give any baby under 1 year any honey is the best advice. That does not mean, however, that the mother cannot eat honey, even if she is breastfeeding. She can. --V > " If it stays liquid and doesn't crystalize, it's >pasteurized. " this is not necessarily true, I have bees, honey made >from some flowers crystalizes easily, other slowly.my last years honey >(raw) never crystalized, this years (also raw) is already nearly solid, >and I have gotten pasturized honey from the store that crystalized very >quickly, you cannot use that as a guide to whether honey is raw or not, >make sure you read the lable, I would not give a baby under a year any >honey, just to be sure. >Pam ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~ --A.J. Muste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Thanks for the clarification, Pam. I think the advice not to give any baby under 1 year any honey is the best advice. That does not mean, however, that the mother cannot eat honey, even if she is breastfeeding. She can. --V > " If it stays liquid and doesn't crystalize, it's >pasteurized. " this is not necessarily true, I have bees, honey made >from some flowers crystalizes easily, other slowly.my last years honey >(raw) never crystalized, this years (also raw) is already nearly solid, >and I have gotten pasturized honey from the store that crystalized very >quickly, you cannot use that as a guide to whether honey is raw or not, >make sure you read the lable, I would not give a baby under a year any >honey, just to be sure. >Pam ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~ --A.J. Muste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.