UNDA side effect of heartburn?

[Guest guest]

Hello UNDA experts,

I've seen a couple of patients have "toxicity" oriented side effects (nausea, headaches) from starting UNDAs, i.e., the variety in which we're stirring up a little too much stuff and their systems aren't built up enough to handle it. These are the ones that we reduce dose below level of symptoms, everything turns out fine.

However, a patient just told me that during 1, 20, 243 she regularly experienced heartburn. She's finished the set - didn't tell me while it was going on. But there was a clear dose relationship, in that on days she forgot the 3rd dose it was less pronounced; on days she remembered the 3rd dose, it wasn't only in direct response to the UNDAs, but also in response to eating. Heartburn (experienced as burning sensation at throat level) is not a usual Sx for her; in fact has never had it.

My intention was to repeat 1, 20, 243 before moving on w/this particular pt b/c I of direct gallbladder stasis, as well as liver underlying other issues, namely hormone imbalance. But don't want to do so until I know what this reflux business signifies.

What do you all make of this? Would you treat it like any other UNDA side effect, and just reduce # drops/dose until below level of symptoms?

Thanks,

Deborah Epstein, NDSeattle

[Guest guest]

Deborah,

My apologies if this is redundant. I saw your post again today on this topic. Usually when I send posts out to the UNDA group I will get a post sent to my email as well, and I know in consequence that it was received by the group. In the case of my response to your email, however, this didn’t happen, and while I realize you may well have gotten it and feel you still need a better answer, I would rather be redundant here than not, and hopefully this time see the post, and so know with more certainty that you indeed got my answer...Bob

------ Forwarded Message

Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:19:50 -0700

To: UNDA Group < >

Conversation: UNDA side effect of heartburn?

Subject: Re: UNDA side effect of heartburn?

Don’t know if this will be helpful or not, but I will say that I’ve learned I have to be careful about always going to the “back off on your UNDA’s” strategy when people get related symptoms. IF the diet is clean, IF they are doing all the emunctory moving/opening protocols, IF they are integrating the other BTG’s (is she doing the ACV?), and they are STILL getting reactions to the UNDA’s, THEN we talk about lowering the dose. If they’re NOT doing these things though, then we sit down and talk about whether or not doing UNDA’s at all is the right program for them. Otherwise, I’ve found we can cultivate a kind of “blame it on the UNDA’s” mentality, when the UNDA’s are really just doing what we want them to do..and I find out after a month that my patient took a week off from UNDA’s here or there for one reason or another, and the overall effort has been considerably undermined. If you know you’ve got good compliance, the other thing that comes to mind is your registering heartburn as occurring in the throat, which also brings up thoughts of GERD, hiatal hernia, etc. From a new medicine perspective you have to wonder if there is something she is confronting in her life right now that is causing her to have a difficult time swallowing it, from CCM I might consider if there is some major decision or dilemma she is confronting, and I’d also keep in mind that as people do their healing work the diaphragmatic segment is a common place to see spasms. On these terms, some kind of breathwork, and/or customized visualization, may be helpful here. Lot’s of ways to look at this...hope this helps.....Bob

Hello UNDA experts,

I've seen a couple of patients have " toxicity " oriented side effects (nausea, headaches) from starting UNDAs, i.e., the variety in which we're stirring up a little too much stuff and their systems aren't built up enough to handle it. These are the ones that we reduce dose below level of symptoms, everything turns out fine.

However, a patient just told me that during 1, 20, 243 she regularly experienced heartburn. She's finished the set - didn't tell me while it was going on. But there was a clear dose relationship, in that on days she forgot the 3rd dose it was less pronounced; on days she remembered the 3rd dose, it wasn't only in direct response to the UNDAs, but also in response to eating. Heartburn (experienced as burning sensation at throat level) is not a usual Sx for her; in fact has never had it.

My intention was to repeat 1, 20, 243 before moving on w/this particular pt b/c I of direct gallbladder stasis, as well as liver underlying other issues, namely hormone imbalance. But don't want to do so until I know what this reflux business signifies.

What do you all make of this? Would you treat it like any other UNDA side effect, and just reduce # drops/dose until below level of symptoms?

Thanks,

Deborah Epstein, ND

Seattle

------ End of Forwarded Message

[Guest guest]

Deborah,

My apologies if this is redundant. I saw your post again today on this topic. Usually when I send posts out to the UNDA group I will get a post sent to my email as well, and I know in consequence that it was received by the group. In the case of my response to your email, however, this didn’t happen, and while I realize you may well have gotten it and feel you still need a better answer, I would rather be redundant here than not, and hopefully this time see the post, and so know with more certainty that you indeed got my answer...Bob

------ Forwarded Message

Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:19:50 -0700

To: UNDA Group < >

Conversation: UNDA side effect of heartburn?

Subject: Re: UNDA side effect of heartburn?

Don’t know if this will be helpful or not, but I will say that I’ve learned I have to be careful about always going to the “back off on your UNDA’s” strategy when people get related symptoms. IF the diet is clean, IF they are doing all the emunctory moving/opening protocols, IF they are integrating the other BTG’s (is she doing the ACV?), and they are STILL getting reactions to the UNDA’s, THEN we talk about lowering the dose. If they’re NOT doing these things though, then we sit down and talk about whether or not doing UNDA’s at all is the right program for them. Otherwise, I’ve found we can cultivate a kind of “blame it on the UNDA’s” mentality, when the UNDA’s are really just doing what we want them to do..and I find out after a month that my patient took a week off from UNDA’s here or there for one reason or another, and the overall effort has been considerably undermined. If you know you’ve got good compliance, the other thing that comes to mind is your registering heartburn as occurring in the throat, which also brings up thoughts of GERD, hiatal hernia, etc. From a new medicine perspective you have to wonder if there is something she is confronting in her life right now that is causing her to have a difficult time swallowing it, from CCM I might consider if there is some major decision or dilemma she is confronting, and I’d also keep in mind that as people do their healing work the diaphragmatic segment is a common place to see spasms. On these terms, some kind of breathwork, and/or customized visualization, may be helpful here. Lot’s of ways to look at this...hope this helps.....Bob

Hello UNDA experts,

I've seen a couple of patients have " toxicity " oriented side effects (nausea, headaches) from starting UNDAs, i.e., the variety in which we're stirring up a little too much stuff and their systems aren't built up enough to handle it. These are the ones that we reduce dose below level of symptoms, everything turns out fine.

However, a patient just told me that during 1, 20, 243 she regularly experienced heartburn. She's finished the set - didn't tell me while it was going on. But there was a clear dose relationship, in that on days she forgot the 3rd dose it was less pronounced; on days she remembered the 3rd dose, it wasn't only in direct response to the UNDAs, but also in response to eating. Heartburn (experienced as burning sensation at throat level) is not a usual Sx for her; in fact has never had it.

My intention was to repeat 1, 20, 243 before moving on w/this particular pt b/c I of direct gallbladder stasis, as well as liver underlying other issues, namely hormone imbalance. But don't want to do so until I know what this reflux business signifies.

What do you all make of this? Would you treat it like any other UNDA side effect, and just reduce # drops/dose until below level of symptoms?

Thanks,

Deborah Epstein, ND

Seattle

------ End of Forwarded Message

[Guest guest]

Hi Bob,

Thanks so much for reposting. I didn't in fact see your response - seems to be

something wierd happening (w/Yahoo, I suspect), where the full thread isn't

showing, as I don't " see " it (even this one, which is what makes me think

there's a Yahoo Groups problem happening) at the bottom of the original

question. And this is very helpful. THANK YOU!

>

> Deborah,

> My apologies if this is redundant. I saw your post again today on this

> topic. Usually when I send posts out to the UNDA group I will get a post

> sent to my email as well, and I know in consequence that it was received by

> the group. In the case of my response to your email, however, this didn¹t

> happen, and while I realize you may well have gotten it and feel you still

> need a better answer, I would rather be redundant here than not, and

> hopefully this time see the post, and so know with more certainty that you

> indeed got my answer...Bob

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Bob,

Thanks so much for reposting. I didn't in fact see your response - seems to be

something wierd happening (w/Yahoo, I suspect), where the full thread isn't

showing, as I don't " see " it (even this one, which is what makes me think

there's a Yahoo Groups problem happening) at the bottom of the original

question. And this is very helpful. THANK YOU!

>

> Deborah,

> My apologies if this is redundant. I saw your post again today on this

> topic. Usually when I send posts out to the UNDA group I will get a post

> sent to my email as well, and I know in consequence that it was received by

> the group. In the case of my response to your email, however, this didn¹t

> happen, and while I realize you may well have gotten it and feel you still

> need a better answer, I would rather be redundant here than not, and

> hopefully this time see the post, and so know with more certainty that you

> indeed got my answer...Bob

>