Re: i need some sanity: baby nutrition

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/26/04 5:23:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, katja@...

writes:

> >1. Get some " real " kefir (you are, good!)

>

> hee.

Perhaps you could try using goat, rather than cow, milk, if you have a

source?

Chris

[Guest guest]

Hello Katja,

My second child is almost 11 months old now too. We are also on a gluten free

diet, except I have been on it for several years now so no gluten during this

second pregnancy. I just wanted to say that we also started feeding our

daughter fairly early, around 5 or 6 months old. She was hungry and ready for

food. She is also still breastfed and was exclusively breastfed until 5 or 6

months. We give her raw egg yolks, meat, veggies and pumpkin and some fruit,

along with little chunks of coconut oil, which she really seems to like. She

has never been constipated despite being started on solid food " early " .

We don't give her dairy at all. I don't have a good feeling about giving

her dairy of any kind yet, even though we raise goats for milk. Anyway, my

point is that I don't think it is necessarily harmful to feed your baby food

when the baby wants it before they reach a certain age mark. I think it

entirely depends on the child and what food you give to the child. Perhaps all

the stuff about damaging a baby's gut by feeding food early is because the food

is usually gluten rich or pasteurized dairy rich foods that are not really good

for lots of people.

Anyway, perhaps the constipation is from the dairy and not because of early

feeding. My baby still poops frequently, although they are solid poops now.

Maybe you could try giving her some probiotics designed for babies. I know of

many others who do this and have had good results. Also I don't think that it

is too much too soon, but of course this is just my personal opinion and only

based on my experience with my two daughters.

Actually now that I think about it, it was more like four months when she

started eating very small quantities of food. So anyway, that is my experience

and hopefully there was something useful in there somewhere.

Rebekah

dh

dd Sierra (3/29/00)

dd Arabelle (4/6/03)

i need some sanity: baby nutrition

my daughter is 11 months old tomorrow. she's been breastfed all along and

is growing like a weed.

when amber was 5-6mos old, she was *obsessed* with food. just totally

obsessed. so finally we gave in and gave her some - egg yolks, some

applesauce, some squash, some meat. that lasted for two or three weeks and

then she got somewhat constipated. (i'm beginning to think that

perhaps we've given her too much variety too soon?)

finally we had to give her a

baby enima on morning 5. (massive guilt #3!!!)

so.

can somebody set me straight, please?

[Guest guest]

ok. that's good.

thanks. i'm thinking too that it might be the dairy, even though it's good

raw grass fed dairy...it's such a *huge* component of our diet that it's

hard to imagine avoiding it, even for her. but i think that's what i'm

going to try...she does still breastfeed (hopefully she doesn't want to

give that up anytime soon!!!)

thank you!

katja

At 03:48 PM 2/26/2004, you wrote:

>Hello Katja,

>

>My second child is almost 11 months old now too. We are also on a gluten

>free diet, except I have been on it for several years now so no gluten

>during this second pregnancy. I just wanted to say that we also started

>feeding our daughter fairly early, around 5 or 6 months old. She was

>hungry and ready for food. She is also still breastfed and was

>exclusively breastfed until 5 or 6 months. We give her raw egg yolks,

>meat, veggies and pumpkin and some fruit, along with little chunks of

>coconut oil, which she really seems to like. She has never been

>constipated despite being started on solid food " early " .

> We don't give her dairy at all. I don't have a good feeling about

> giving her dairy of any kind yet, even though we raise goats for

> milk. Anyway, my point is that I don't think it is necessarily harmful

> to feed your baby food when the baby wants it before they reach a certain

> age mark. I think it entirely depends on the child and what food you

> give to the child. Perhaps all the stuff about damaging a baby's gut by

> feeding food early is because the food is usually gluten rich or

> pasteurized dairy rich foods that are not really good for lots of people.

> Anyway, perhaps the constipation is from the dairy and not because

> of early feeding. My baby still poops frequently, although they are

> solid poops now. Maybe you could try giving her some probiotics

> designed for babies. I know of many others who do this and have had good

> results. Also I don't think that it is too much too soon, but of course

> this is just my personal opinion and only based on my experience with my

> two daughters.

> Actually now that I think about it, it was more like four months when

> she started eating very small quantities of food. So anyway, that is my

> experience and hopefully there was something useful in there somewhere.

>

>Rebekah

>dh

>dd Sierra (3/29/00)

>dd Arabelle (4/6/03)

> i need some sanity: baby nutrition

>

>

>

> my daughter is 11 months old tomorrow. she's been breastfed all along and

> is growing like a weed.

> when amber was 5-6mos old, she was *obsessed* with food. just totally

> obsessed. so finally we gave in and gave her some - egg yolks, some

> applesauce, some squash, some meat. that lasted for two or three weeks and

> then she got somewhat constipated. (i'm beginning to think that

> perhaps we've given her too much variety too soon?)

>

> finally we had to give her a

> baby enima on morning 5. (massive guilt #3!!!)

> so.

> can somebody set me straight, please?

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi- If it makes you feel any better my last two children started solids after

the age of one (avocados only) and were constipated until they got adjusted

to solids. My first two (twins) were started on solids at 7 months (puree of

rutabega) and I never forgave myself because of the difficult constipation that

followed. They were in such distress.

My other 2 didn't have distress. I'd probably feed her real watery foods and

nurse often (mine always nursed every hour or so).

Elainie

[Guest guest]

>so.

>can somebody set me straight, please?

>i gave her kefir yesterday (though it's " inferior " kefir cause it's from

>WFN starter...we're gettin' some GEM grains soon!) and some today, and i

>thought i'd cut out all other dairy sources for a while...

1. Get some " real " kefir (you are, good!)

2. Take some plums, or prunes, and cook them in some water.

Take out the pits, mash them up a bit. Feed daily. Kids seem

to love stewed prunes, and ya know, they WORK.

3. Stop feeling guilty. At least you are open to new ideas ...

the average Mom would still be feeding her Oreos. (eeeew).

The prunes work because they keep water in the stool.

Stool softener pills do the same thing (I don't know

how to get them down a kid though) and so does Metamucil.

But kids (at least my kids) love stewed prunes, so that

is easy! They don't cause diarrhea, that is one of those

urban legends. You can also put them in brownies and other

baked goods to keep them moist and add flavor.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

At 04:55 PM 2/26/2004, you wrote:

>1. Get some " real " kefir (you are, good!)

hee.

>2. Take some plums, or prunes, and cook them in some water.

> Take out the pits, mash them up a bit. Feed daily. Kids seem

> to love stewed prunes, and ya know, they WORK.

that's a good idea. i had some high quality prune juice in the house and

gave her some of that but it didn't work yet (i know! juice! i was

desperate!)...we'll try with the whole prunes

>3. Stop feeling guilty. At least you are open to new ideas ...

> the average Mom would still be feeding her Oreos. (eeeew).

hee.

well, ya know. first, i'm not the average mom. mistakes are unacceptable!

but on top of that, i give other people advice. ya know? people trust me to

not screw up with their health, and that compounds the guilt. if i screwed

up on my own baby, ya know?

however, i will endeavor to implement this advice!

>The prunes work because they keep water in the stool.

>Stool softener pills do the same thing (I don't know

>how to get them down a kid though) and so does Metamucil.

>But kids (at least my kids) love stewed prunes, so that

>is easy! They don't cause diarrhea, that is one of those

>urban legends. You can also put them in brownies and other

>baked goods to keep them moist and add flavor.

yeah. it's all about the prunes. i'm not really into metamucil - she's a

baby! that just shouldn't be necessary. but it is hrad to get her to drink

water (she does slightly better with tea). so prunes it is.

thank you heidi!

[Guest guest]

,

When I did my raw food stint last year it was amazing at how quickly I became

EFA deficient (I had my levels tested) First sign for me is a dry flaky

patches on my body. I was only doing a *cleanse* that did more harm than good.

Elainie

[Guest guest]

Hey Katja...At least she's a good eater! Don't feel guilty. You caught it

early. If you knew how much olive oil went where the sun doesn't shine to

help Gaby poop.... but I digress. Did she have any bad symptoms from " gluten

through the boobie " ? If not, maybe she didn't get enough to harm her. She

may need some enzymes to help her digest the food. I give Gaby some of mine

sprinkled on some honey, but he's older, so I'm not sure how that works for

the little ones. Does she eat ghee/clo? That is supposed to help, and stock,

too. Definitely get her a probiotic of some sort. I have been Gaby one, and

his stools are well formed, don't float, and his gas has decreased to almost

nothing- believe me that's a BIG improvement. Anyway, does the constipated

poop smell funny, like people who eat tofu and then don't floss? If it does,

there is most likely undigested protein in there, but the above

recommendations should help. Maybe back off on the heavy protein

stuff(she'll be fine with your milk, many kids go a year or more, and its

just for a few days) unless it is predigested in some way(like kefir), and

then add it back slowly. I hope that helps.

Best Wishes

Michele

>From: katja <katja@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: i need some sanity: baby nutrition

>Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:53:00 -0500

>

>ok, guys. i've gotten myself kinda worked up over this and i really need

>some sanity. so here we go:

>

>my daughter is 11 months old tomorrow. she's been breastfed all along and

>is growing like a weed.

>i've recently diagnosed us all as celiac (thanks, heidi!) and we've been

>grain free for probably 6 weeks. before that, however, i ate grains, so

>she's had gluten though the boobie. (her aunt was diagnosed celiac-sprue by

>an allopath) we've been on WD since monday

>(guilt #1: all the gluten she got through my milk before i figured out that

>was bad.)

>

>when amber was 5-6mos old, she was *obsessed* with food. just totally

>obsessed. so finally we gave in and gave her some - egg yolks, some

>applesauce, some squash, some meat. that lasted for two or three weeks and

>then she got somewhat constipated. she pushed it out herself though (sorry,

>ew.) after that she was *done* with food, which suited me just fine.

>(guilt #2: i can't believe i let her have food that young.)

>

>when she was 10 months old, she wanted food again. she's voracious about

>it, and we also started right off having her drink water or tea, as well,

>to keep her hydrated. she generally eats salmon, beef, or pork, apples,

>pears, bananas, kelp, spinach, occasional bits of cauliflower, raw butter,

>raw yogurt, raw cream cheese, or occasionally raw jack cheese. she's had

>some other things too, but that's the usual. (i'm beginning to think that

>perhaps we've given her too much variety too soon?)

>

>last week she was constipated for 4 days and finally we had to give her a

>baby enima on morning 5. (massive guilt #3!!!) after that she didn't poop

>for a day, and then when she did the day after that, it was pretty solid

>and she had to push, but she didn't have to push so much that it upset her

>or stopped her from playing. we're into day #3 since that, with no poop!

>(guilt...rising...)

>

>so i'm pretty much going off the deep end: " ohhhhh nooooooo what have i

>done to my poooooooor babeeeeeeeeeee i've ruined her bowellllllssss... "

>

>so.

>can somebody set me straight, please?

>i gave her kefir yesterday (though it's " inferior " kefir cause it's from

>WFN starter...we're gettin' some GEM grains soon!) and some today, and i

>thought i'd cut out all other dairy sources for a while...

>

_________________________________________________________________

Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here.

http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

[Guest guest]

Yes, I did that for Gaby, but I blended soaked prunes with just enough water

to make a prune " pudding " . He wouldn't eat it warm, so I froze eat(prune

sorbet?) and he loved it.

Michele

>From: Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: i need some sanity: baby nutrition

>Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:55:01 -0800

>

>

> >so.

> >can somebody set me straight, please?

> >i gave her kefir yesterday (though it's " inferior " kefir cause it's from

> >WFN starter...we're gettin' some GEM grains soon!) and some today, and i

> >thought i'd cut out all other dairy sources for a while...

>

>1. Get some " real " kefir (you are, good!)

>

>2. Take some plums, or prunes, and cook them in some water.

> Take out the pits, mash them up a bit. Feed daily. Kids seem

> to love stewed prunes, and ya know, they WORK.

>

>3. Stop feeling guilty. At least you are open to new ideas ...

> the average Mom would still be feeding her Oreos. (eeeew).

>

>The prunes work because they keep water in the stool.

>Stool softener pills do the same thing (I don't know

>how to get them down a kid though) and so does Metamucil.

>But kids (at least my kids) love stewed prunes, so that

>is easy! They don't cause diarrhea, that is one of those

>urban legends. You can also put them in brownies and other

>baked goods to keep them moist and add flavor.

>

>-- Heidi Jean

>

>

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday.

http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx

[Guest guest]

At 07:58 PM 2/26/2004, you wrote:

>Hey Katja...At least she's a good eater! Don't feel guilty. You caught it

>early. If you knew how much olive oil went where the sun doesn't shine to

heehee!

thank you!!

>help Gaby poop.... but I digress. Did she have any bad symptoms from " gluten

>through the boobie " ? If not, maybe she didn't get enough to harm her. She

she really doesn't, actually. just dry skin, but we all have that. our

house is terribly dry and this winter was one of the worst...but since it's

all through the family, i think it's safe to assume she needs to live

gluten free.

>may need some enzymes to help her digest the food. I give Gaby some of mine

>sprinkled on some honey, but he's older, so I'm not sure how that works for

>the little ones. Does she eat ghee/clo? That is supposed to help, and stock,

she doesn't yet. it seems a little early to be starting with CLO to my

taste - i generally try to keep supplimenting to a minimum. but perhaps i

should consider CLO to be food... i take it, so she's getting some that

way, at least.

>too. Definitely get her a probiotic of some sort. I have been Gaby one, and

>his stools are well formed, don't float, and his gas has decreased to almost

>nothing- believe me that's a BIG improvement. Anyway, does the constipated

>poop smell funny, like people who eat tofu and then don't floss? If it does,

>there is most likely undigested protein in there, but the above

>recommendations should help. Maybe back off on the heavy protein

>stuff(she'll be fine with your milk, many kids go a year or more, and its

>just for a few days) unless it is predigested in some way(like kefir), and

>then add it back slowly. I hope that helps.

hee. we have backed off on meat and stuff, actually - only doing it if she

asks for it. and her poop is sinking, so that's good.

>Best Wishes

thanks

>Michele

>

> >From: katja <katja@...>

> >Reply-

> >

> >Subject: i need some sanity: baby nutrition

> >Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:53:00 -0500

> >

> >ok, guys. i've gotten myself kinda worked up over this and i really need

> >some sanity. so here we go:

> >

> >my daughter is 11 months old tomorrow. she's been breastfed all along and

> >is growing like a weed.

> >i've recently diagnosed us all as celiac (thanks, heidi!) and we've been

> >grain free for probably 6 weeks. before that, however, i ate grains, so

> >she's had gluten though the boobie. (her aunt was diagnosed celiac-sprue by

> >an allopath) we've been on WD since monday

> >(guilt #1: all the gluten she got through my milk before i figured out that

> >was bad.)

> >

> >when amber was 5-6mos old, she was *obsessed* with food. just totally

> >obsessed. so finally we gave in and gave her some - egg yolks, some

> >applesauce, some squash, some meat. that lasted for two or three weeks and

> >then she got somewhat constipated. she pushed it out herself though (sorry,

> >ew.) after that she was *done* with food, which suited me just fine.

> >(guilt #2: i can't believe i let her have food that young.)

> >

> >when she was 10 months old, she wanted food again. she's voracious about

> >it, and we also started right off having her drink water or tea, as well,

> >to keep her hydrated. she generally eats salmon, beef, or pork, apples,

> >pears, bananas, kelp, spinach, occasional bits of cauliflower, raw butter,

> >raw yogurt, raw cream cheese, or occasionally raw jack cheese. she's had

> >some other things too, but that's the usual. (i'm beginning to think that

> >perhaps we've given her too much variety too soon?)

> >

> >last week she was constipated for 4 days and finally we had to give her a

> >baby enima on morning 5. (massive guilt #3!!!) after that she didn't poop

> >for a day, and then when she did the day after that, it was pretty solid

> >and she had to push, but she didn't have to push so much that it upset her

> >or stopped her from playing. we're into day #3 since that, with no poop!

> >(guilt...rising...)

> >

> >so i'm pretty much going off the deep end: " ohhhhh nooooooo what have i

> >done to my poooooooor babeeeeeeeeeee i've ruined her bowellllllssss... "

> >

> >so.

> >can somebody set me straight, please?

> >i gave her kefir yesterday (though it's " inferior " kefir cause it's from

> >WFN starter...we're gettin' some GEM grains soon!) and some today, and i

> >thought i'd cut out all other dairy sources for a while...

> >

>

>_________________________________________________________________

>Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here.

>http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 08:08 PM 2/26/2004, you wrote:

>Yes, I did that for Gaby, but I blended soaked prunes with just enough water

>to make a prune " pudding " . He wouldn't eat it warm, so I froze eat(prune

>sorbet?) and he loved it.

oh, good idea!

amber tends to do warm alright (we just discovered that she'll drink more

warm tea than she will cold tea - after all this time of cooling it down

for her!) but just in case...

[Guest guest]

I think it is food, the CLO that is, just like any other good oil, but a

very potent one. If she is drinking less milk maybe a minute amount would

help her bowels, like 1/4 tsp-1/2tsp? I don't know how big she is. They say

1 tsp for every 50lb. Don't ask me who " they " are, not sure which " they " .

Good thing its not floating. Hee hee. EFA's help alot w/bowel function and

dry skin, too. Mine has gotten much better since starting CLO, now that I

think about it. I finished my whole first bottle of the Carlsons stuff, and

I'm like Whoa, thats 50,000 mg or more of DHA. Yeah! I need like 190,000

more and I'll be all caught up. Woo hoo!

Good luck with the baby!

Michele

>From: katja <katja@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: RE: i need some sanity: baby nutrition

>Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 20:11:12 -0500

>

>At 07:58 PM 2/26/2004, you wrote:

> >Hey Katja...At least she's a good eater! Don't feel guilty. You caught

>it

> >early. If you knew how much olive oil went where the sun doesn't shine to

>

>heehee!

>thank you!!

>

> >help Gaby poop.... but I digress. Did she have any bad symptoms from

> " gluten

> >through the boobie " ? If not, maybe she didn't get enough to harm her. She

>

>she really doesn't, actually. just dry skin, but we all have that. our

>house is terribly dry and this winter was one of the worst...but since it's

>all through the family, i think it's safe to assume she needs to live

>gluten free.

>

> >may need some enzymes to help her digest the food. I give Gaby some of

>mine

> >sprinkled on some honey, but he's older, so I'm not sure how that works

>for

> >the little ones. Does she eat ghee/clo? That is supposed to help, and

>stock,

>

>she doesn't yet. it seems a little early to be starting with CLO to my

>taste - i generally try to keep supplimenting to a minimum. but perhaps i

>should consider CLO to be food... i take it, so she's getting some that

>way, at least.

>

> >too. Definitely get her a probiotic of some sort. I have been Gaby one,

>and

> >his stools are well formed, don't float, and his gas has decreased to

>almost

> >nothing- believe me that's a BIG improvement. Anyway, does the

>constipated

> >poop smell funny, like people who eat tofu and then don't floss? If it

>does,

> >there is most likely undigested protein in there, but the above

> >recommendations should help. Maybe back off on the heavy protein

> >stuff(she'll be fine with your milk, many kids go a year or more, and its

> >just for a few days) unless it is predigested in some way(like kefir),

>and

> >then add it back slowly. I hope that helps.

>

>hee. we have backed off on meat and stuff, actually - only doing it if she

>asks for it. and her poop is sinking, so that's good.

>

>

>

> >Best Wishes

>

> thanks

>

>

> >Michele

> >

> > >From: katja <katja@...>

> > >Reply-

> > >

> > >Subject: i need some sanity: baby nutrition

> > >Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:53:00 -0500

> > >

> > >ok, guys. i've gotten myself kinda worked up over this and i really

>need

> > >some sanity. so here we go:

> > >

> > >my daughter is 11 months old tomorrow. she's been breastfed all along

>and

> > >is growing like a weed.

> > >i've recently diagnosed us all as celiac (thanks, heidi!) and we've

>been

> > >grain free for probably 6 weeks. before that, however, i ate grains, so

> > >she's had gluten though the boobie. (her aunt was diagnosed

>celiac-sprue by

> > >an allopath) we've been on WD since monday

> > >(guilt #1: all the gluten she got through my milk before i figured out

>that

> > >was bad.)

> > >

> > >when amber was 5-6mos old, she was *obsessed* with food. just totally

> > >obsessed. so finally we gave in and gave her some - egg yolks, some

> > >applesauce, some squash, some meat. that lasted for two or three weeks

>and

> > >then she got somewhat constipated. she pushed it out herself though

>(sorry,

> > >ew.) after that she was *done* with food, which suited me just fine.

> > >(guilt #2: i can't believe i let her have food that young.)

> > >

> > >when she was 10 months old, she wanted food again. she's voracious

>about

> > >it, and we also started right off having her drink water or tea, as

>well,

> > >to keep her hydrated. she generally eats salmon, beef, or pork, apples,

> > >pears, bananas, kelp, spinach, occasional bits of cauliflower, raw

>butter,

> > >raw yogurt, raw cream cheese, or occasionally raw jack cheese. she's

>had

> > >some other things too, but that's the usual. (i'm beginning to think

>that

> > >perhaps we've given her too much variety too soon?)

> > >

> > >last week she was constipated for 4 days and finally we had to give her

>a

> > >baby enima on morning 5. (massive guilt #3!!!) after that she didn't

>poop

> > >for a day, and then when she did the day after that, it was pretty

>solid

> > >and she had to push, but she didn't have to push so much that it upset

>her

> > >or stopped her from playing. we're into day #3 since that, with no

>poop!

> > >(guilt...rising...)

> > >

> > >so i'm pretty much going off the deep end: " ohhhhh nooooooo what have i

> > >done to my poooooooor babeeeeeeeeeee i've ruined her bowellllllssss... "

> > >

> > >so.

> > >can somebody set me straight, please?

> > >i gave her kefir yesterday (though it's " inferior " kefir cause it's

>from

> > >WFN starter...we're gettin' some GEM grains soon!) and some today, and

>i

> > >thought i'd cut out all other dairy sources for a while...

> > >

> >

> >_________________________________________________________________

> >Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here.

> >http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Katja..

I am not a Mom but I can pass on what has worked for our customers who have

faced simular problems.

raw milk seems to keep little kids and not so little kids moving.

Colostrum will repair any perceived damage which I doubt is there.

My daughter who is 8 spends time with her mom who is the N-N antichrist and she

straightens right out movement wise when she gets back here and is on raw milk

again.

Good luck Tim

[Guest guest]

Hi Elainie,

While when I was raw I didn't have any problems with dryness, I was also

20-21 and was not pregnant/breastfeeding. I ate a lot of coconuts, avocados,

olive oil, etc. Nuts did nothing moisture wise. I did start craving

fish(raw, which I'd never had), which I ate for about four weeks and then

boom, was pregnant - after they'd told me I was infertile. In my experience

since then, the fish craving comes with EFA deficiency. I think most raw

vegan diets are deficient in EFA's, especially for pregnant/nursing mothers.

There is a lot of incorrect info out there in raw circles - some dude argued

with me about EFA " s , stating there was enough in BANANAS! I was like,

" what??? "

How long were you raw? I think I was so EFA deficient before going raw that

my body was happy to get what little it could. Just sad. My ADD has improved

so much the past few years...except when I was B12 deficient, thanks to

another myth in the raw community. People just talk out of their fruitarian

behinds sometimes.

I think raw is fine for a cleanse, a very short one, and definitely

supplement oils. Especially harmful is that Hallelujah diet. Its based on

carrot juice, Barley Green, etc. Extremely low protein and fat. I was never

into that low fat nonsense. I love me some oily goodness.

Where did you have your EFA's tested? I would like to do that. I know I must

be deficient, but I'm curious how much.

Thanks,

Michele

>From: zumicat@...

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: i need some sanity: baby nutrition

>Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:40:57 EST

>

>,

>When I did my raw food stint last year it was amazing at how quickly I

>became

>EFA deficient (I had my levels tested) First sign for me is a dry flaky

>patches on my body. I was only doing a *cleanse* that did more harm than

>good.

>

>Elainie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/27/2004 12:11:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,

rawbabymama@... writes:

>

> While when I was raw I didn't have any problems with dryness, I was also

> 20-21 and was not pregnant/breastfeeding. I ate a lot of coconuts, avocados,

>

> olive oil, etc. Nuts did nothing moisture wise. I did start craving

> fish(raw, which I'd never had), which I ate for about four weeks and then

> boom, was pregnant - after they'd told me I was infertile. In my experience

> since then, the fish craving comes with EFA deficiency. I think most raw

> vegan diets are deficient in EFA's, especially for pregnant/nursing mothers.

>

> There is a lot of incorrect info out there in raw circles - some dude argued

>

> with me about EFA " s , stating there was enough in BANANAS! I was like,

> " what??? "

>

> , I think all vegan diets are deficient in EFA's. I was vegan

> (macrobiotic vegan ) for 12 years and had the same problem.

>

> How long were you raw? I think I was so EFA deficient before going raw that

> my body was happy to get what little it could. Just sad. My ADD has improved

>

> so much the past few years...except when I was B12 deficient, thanks to

> another myth in the raw community. People just talk out of their fruitarian

> behinds sometimes.

I was raw for several months (about 3) and then discovered I was pregnant. I

added eggs, then fish, then meat in that order. It took me several weeks to

start eating cooked foods and then the thought of raw foods made me gag. I was

pretty much doing a Sunfood diet.

I've been around the raw community for the past 15 years and I think they're

all hypocrites. The bingeing that goes on.. the lies etc... Some of my friends

teach this stuff (they're well known raw gurus) and I know and have seen what

goes on behind the scenes.

>

> I think raw is fine for a cleanse, a very short one, and definitely

> supplement oils. Especially harmful is that Hallelujah diet. Its based on

> carrot juice, Barley Green, etc. Extremely low protein and fat. I was never

> into that low fat nonsense. I love me some oily goodness.

I gained weight from all the olive oil. Started out weighing my usual 105

before the *cleanse* and ended up 115.

>

> Where did you have your EFA's tested? I would like to do that. I know I must

>

> be deficient, but I'm curious how much.

My local ND. I run all my tests through him (thyroid, etc..)

>

> Elainie

>

>

[Guest guest]

ah - right, i forgot, amber LOVES avocados...

At 09:54 PM 2/26/2004, you wrote:

>Hi- If it makes you feel any better my last two children started solids after

>the age of one (avocados only) and were constipated until they got adjusted

>to solids. My first two (twins) were started on solids at 7 months (puree of

>rutabega) and I never forgave myself because of the difficult constipation

>that

>followed. They were in such distress.

>

>My other 2 didn't have distress. I'd probably feed her real watery foods and

>nurse often (mine always nursed every hour or so).

>

>Elainie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

tim! thanks!!

first, in particular " perceived damage " - i think you're totally right. i

think i'm so focused on adult damage that i'm making more of the situation

than what's reasonable, but then again, when it's your first baby, it's so

hard to be reasonable!

second, yay about your daughter! that's so good to know!

-katja

At 10:31 PM 2/26/2004, you wrote:

>Hi Katja..

>I am not a Mom but I can pass on what has worked for our customers who

>have faced simular problems.

>raw milk seems to keep little kids and not so little kids moving.

>Colostrum will repair any perceived damage which I doubt is there.

>My daughter who is 8 spends time with her mom who is the N-N antichrist

>and she straightens right out movement wise when she gets back here and is

>on raw milk again.

>Good luck Tim

[Guest guest]

From: " the scorpio " :

> help her bowels, like 1/4 tsp-1/2tsp? I don't know how big she is. They

say

> 1 tsp for every 50lb. Don't ask me who " they " are, not sure which " they " .

Michele, I think it's Dr. Mercola who says that about dosing CLO. Of course

" they " could include some someones other than Mercola, but I do know that

he is at least *part* of the " they. "

~ Fern

[Guest guest]

>tim! thanks!!

>first, in particular " perceived damage " - i think you're totally right. i

>think i'm so focused on adult damage that i'm making more of the situation

>than what's reasonable, but then again, when it's your first baby, it's so

>hard to be reasonable.

I'll second that with a little research ... IF a baby's gut gets damaged,

it heals really quickly. Usually within a month or two. Older folks

take longer, up to two years.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Yes, I have another perspective for you!!!

My midwife told me that there does come a time around 5-7 mos. where

baby might not poop for as much as 10 days straight! She has seen

this in babies who were exclusively breast fed as well as eating

some solids. I was also told this could happen on and off and not

to be alarmed by it. Thank goodness for her perspective because

that was exactly happened!

Any chance your little one is just going through this cycle and

maybe it will pass?

Leann

> ok, guys. i've gotten myself kinda worked up over this and i

really need

> some sanity. so here we go:

>

> my daughter is 11 months old tomorrow. she's been breastfed all

along and

> is growing like a weed.

> i've recently diagnosed us all as celiac (thanks, heidi!) and

we've been

> grain free for probably 6 weeks. before that, however, i ate

grains, so

> she's had gluten though the boobie. (her aunt was diagnosed celiac-

sprue by

> an allopath) we've been on WD since monday

> (guilt #1: all the gluten she got through my milk before i figured

out that

> was bad.)

>

> when amber was 5-6mos old, she was *obsessed* with food. just

totally

> obsessed. so finally we gave in and gave her some - egg yolks,

some

> applesauce, some squash, some meat. that lasted for two or three

weeks and

> then she got somewhat constipated. she pushed it out herself

though (sorry,

> ew.) after that she was *done* with food, which suited me just

fine.

> (guilt #2: i can't believe i let her have food that young.)

>

> when she was 10 months old, she wanted food again. she's voracious

about

> it, and we also started right off having her drink water or tea,

as well,

> to keep her hydrated. she generally eats salmon, beef, or pork,

apples,

> pears, bananas, kelp, spinach, occasional bits of cauliflower, raw

butter,

> raw yogurt, raw cream cheese, or occasionally raw jack cheese.

she's had

> some other things too, but that's the usual. (i'm beginning to

think that

> perhaps we've given her too much variety too soon?)

>

> last week she was constipated for 4 days and finally we had to

give her a

> baby enima on morning 5. (massive guilt #3!!!) after that she

didn't poop

> for a day, and then when she did the day after that, it was pretty

solid

> and she had to push, but she didn't have to push so much that it

upset her

> or stopped her from playing. we're into day #3 since that, with no

poop!

> (guilt...rising...)

>

> so i'm pretty much going off the deep end: " ohhhhh nooooooo what

have i

> done to my poooooooor babeeeeeeeeeee i've ruined her

bowellllllssss... "

>

> so.

> can somebody set me straight, please?

> i gave her kefir yesterday (though it's " inferior " kefir cause

it's from

> WFN starter...we're gettin' some GEM grains soon!) and some today,

and i

> thought i'd cut out all other dairy sources for a while...

[Guest guest]

Hi Elainie. That is true about vegan diets, though some people include flax

oil which can be beneficial. It helped me at one point, then I became unable

to utilize it somehow. Most of them are way over starched. The raw community

is very strange. I could never find friends in it because they were so

judgemental and no one thought for themselves. This one chick at the health

store always peers in my cart dissapprovingly because she knows I was raw at

one point. It drives me nuts, cause she's one of those Doug Graham

followers. But if the raw community can get people to eat more raw foods,

then they are doing some good.

I'm glad you found this way of eating, so your pregnancy didn't suffer. I

knew nothing about then, but my body did tell me to eat fish in my 7th mo,

so I had 2lb a day!

Best Wishes,

Michele

>From: zumicat@...

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: i need some sanity: baby nutrition

>Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:41:11 EST

>

>In a message dated 2/27/2004 12:11:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,

>rawbabymama@... writes:

>

> >

> > While when I was raw I didn't have any problems with dryness, I was also

> > 20-21 and was not pregnant/breastfeeding. I ate a lot of coconuts,

>avocados,

> >

> > olive oil, etc. Nuts did nothing moisture wise. I did start craving

> > fish(raw, which I'd never had), which I ate for about four weeks and

>then

> > boom, was pregnant - after they'd told me I was infertile. In my

>experience

> > since then, the fish craving comes with EFA deficiency. I think most raw

> > vegan diets are deficient in EFA's, especially for pregnant/nursing

>mothers.

> >

> > There is a lot of incorrect info out there in raw circles - some dude

>argued

> >

> > with me about EFA " s , stating there was enough in BANANAS! I was like,

> > " what??? "

> >

> > , I think all vegan diets are deficient in EFA's. I was vegan

> > (macrobiotic vegan ) for 12 years and had the same problem.

>

>

>

> >

> > How long were you raw? I think I was so EFA deficient before going raw

>that

> > my body was happy to get what little it could. Just sad. My ADD has

>improved

> >

> > so much the past few years...except when I was B12 deficient, thanks to

> > another myth in the raw community. People just talk out of their

>fruitarian

> > behinds sometimes.

>

>

>I was raw for several months (about 3) and then discovered I was pregnant.

>I

>added eggs, then fish, then meat in that order. It took me several weeks to

>start eating cooked foods and then the thought of raw foods made me gag. I

>was

>pretty much doing a Sunfood diet.

>

>I've been around the raw community for the past 15 years and I think

>they're

>all hypocrites. The bingeing that goes on.. the lies etc... Some of my

>friends

>teach this stuff (they're well known raw gurus) and I know and have seen

>what

>goes on behind the scenes.

>

> >

> > I think raw is fine for a cleanse, a very short one, and definitely

> > supplement oils. Especially harmful is that Hallelujah diet. Its based

>on

> > carrot juice, Barley Green, etc. Extremely low protein and fat. I was

>never

> > into that low fat nonsense. I love me some oily goodness.

>

>I gained weight from all the olive oil. Started out weighing my usual 105

>before the *cleanse* and ended up 115.

>

> >

> > Where did you have your EFA's tested? I would like to do that. I know I

>must

> >

> > be deficient, but I'm curious how much.

>

>

>My local ND. I run all my tests through him (thyroid, etc..)

>

> >

> > Elainie

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I'm glad your body told you to eat fish.I can't imagine having a raw vegan

pregnancy, how did you manage? The cravings must have been unbearable.I was just

doing an experiment and wasn't planning on becoming pregnant.My dh was

worried when we found out we were pregnant about the raw diet contributing to a

weak

constitution in our baby but he's got an excellent constitution like my last

2. We discovered NT when it first came out 9 years ago and that's how we have

been raising our family.

First 2 children (5 total) were raised vegan until they were 3 1/2 years and

they started to develop dental caries (they were still nursing and my

deficient milk was probably a contributing factor as well) and so we added fish

and

butter to their diets as a first step. The caries healed.

Elainie

[Guest guest]

Heidi, where did you get that fact? Just curious, as your source would

probably have other helpful facts as well. 's leaky gut symptoms went

away when I cut the legumes/grains completely(and my mom did too, except a

little corn), and I know it's been less than two months or so. It is bad

when it goes unchecked and persists over long periods of time, because then

the body's capability to make enzymes/etc is damaged and nutrient

deficiencies cause longterm damage. Just had to scare you Katja, whua ha ha.

Just kidding, she's fine.

Take care,

Michele

>From: Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: i need some sanity: baby nutrition

>Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:57:07 -0800

>

>

> >tim! thanks!!

> >first, in particular " perceived damage " - i think you're totally right. i

> >think i'm so focused on adult damage that i'm making more of the

>situation

> >than what's reasonable, but then again, when it's your first baby, it's

>so

> >hard to be reasonable.

>

>

>I'll second that with a little research ... IF a baby's gut gets damaged,

>it heals really quickly. Usually within a month or two. Older folks

>take longer, up to two years.

>

>-- Heidi Jean

>

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Take off on a romantic weekend or a family adventure to these great U.S.

locations. http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx

[Guest guest]

>Heidi, where did you get that fact? Just curious, as your source would

>probably have other helpful facts as well.

The Celiac listgroup

<CELIAC@...>

Is constantly posting summaries of studies and links to studies. One within the

last 6 months

or so was about how fast the gut heals ... some people seem to take a LONG time

to make a recovery. See below. There was another one about babies, which I

can't find

at the moment. The babies heal a lot faster. But if you want a LOT of helpful

facts, buy Dangerous Grains!

> 's leaky gut symptoms went

>away when I cut the legumes/grains completely(and my mom did too, except a

>little corn), and I know it's been less than two months or so. It is bad

>when it goes unchecked and persists over long periods of time, because then

>the body's capability to make enzymes/etc is damaged and nutrient

>deficiencies cause longterm damage. Just had to scare you Katja, whua ha ha.

> Just kidding, she's fine.

Oh, that is mean! ;--)

Here is one thing I read. Note:

" Children recovered up to 95% within 2 years and 100% in the

long-term. " Babies are even faster.

Now I know is going to say this is a good argument for the SCD

and why " the gluten theory " isn't true ... I'd point out that the

folks who did this study are very much believing in " the gluten theory "

and also in the potentially permanent damage done by gluten.

But probioitics and glutamine etc. certainly help in the healing!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

----------

With all the excitement over the recent article on research identifying a

gluten peptide which triggers celiac disease appearing in the Sept. 27,

2002 Science magazine another important recent research study was

overlooked. This study may answer the question as to how long it takes for

the symptoms of celiac disease to go away once starting and maintaining a

gluten-free diet. The following article was posted 09/25/2002 on

medscape.com:

" Histologic Follow-Up of People With Celiac Disease on a Gluten-Free Diet:

Slow and Incomplete Recovery " , Am J Clin Pathol 118(3):459-463, 2002.

=A9 2002 American Society of Clinical Pathologists, Inc.

The complete article is at:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/440971

Here is the Abstract:

" To assess histologic recovery in response to gluten withdrawal in celiac

disease, 158 patients seen in our hospital during a 15-year period

underwent follow-up small intestine biopsies (SIBs) within 2 years after

starting a gluten-free diet; further SIBs were done if villous atrophy was

present. A modified Marsh classification was used (IIIA, partial villous

atrophy; IIIB, subtotal villous atrophy; IIIC, total villous atrophy).

Of patients with Marsh IIIA, IIIB, or IIIC lesions, histologic remission

was seen in 65.0% within 2 years, 85.3% within 5 years, and 89.9% in long-

term follow-up. Eleven patients (7.0%) with persisting (partial) villous

atrophy had symptoms and signs of malabsorption and were considered to have

refractory celiac disease; 5 of them developed an enteropathy-associated T-

cell lymphoma. Children recovered up to 95% within 2 years and 100% in the

long-term.

Histologic recovery in celiac disease after starting a gluten-free diet

takes time and is incomplete or absent in a substantial subgroup of

patients (10.1% villous atrophy after 5 years). Systematic follow-up of

patients with celiac disease and the malabsorption syndrome and secondary

complications is needed. "

Note, that after 2 years on a GF diet, some 35% of patients still have

symptoms! 15% after 5 years! No wonder there are so many posts on the

Celiac List complaining of problems long after going on a GF diet.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for the information, Heidi! I'm going to check out the

Celiac info. I never classified myself as such, but its worth checking out.I

don't do grains anyway(allergic/diabetic).

Take care,

Michele...still floating on an oxytocin high from eating Curry Coconut

Shrimp with loved ones :~)

>From: Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: i need some sanity: baby nutrition

>Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 21:03:08 -0800

>

>

> >Heidi, where did you get that fact? Just curious, as your source would

> >probably have other helpful facts as well.

>

>The Celiac listgroup

>

><CELIAC@...>

>

>Is constantly posting summaries of studies and links to studies. One within

>the last 6 months

>or so was about how fast the gut heals ... some people seem to take a LONG

>time

>to make a recovery. See below. There was another one about babies, which I

>can't find

>at the moment. The babies heal a lot faster. But if you want a LOT of

>helpful

>facts, buy Dangerous Grains!

>

>

> > 's leaky gut symptoms went

> >away when I cut the legumes/grains completely(and my mom did too, except

>a

> >little corn), and I know it's been less than two months or so. It is bad

> >when it goes unchecked and persists over long periods of time, because

>then

> >the body's capability to make enzymes/etc is damaged and nutrient

> >deficiencies cause longterm damage. Just had to scare you Katja, whua ha

>ha.

> > Just kidding, she's fine.

>

>Oh, that is mean! ;--)

>

>

>Here is one thing I read. Note:

>

> " Children recovered up to 95% within 2 years and 100% in the

>long-term. " Babies are even faster.

>

>Now I know is going to say this is a good argument for the SCD

>and why " the gluten theory " isn't true ... I'd point out that the

>folks who did this study are very much believing in " the gluten theory "

>and also in the potentially permanent damage done by gluten.

>But probioitics and glutamine etc. certainly help in the healing!

>

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

-----------

>

> With all the excitement over the recent article on research identifying a

>gluten peptide which triggers celiac disease appearing in the Sept. 27,

>2002 Science magazine another important recent research study was

>overlooked. This study may answer the question as to how long it takes for

>the symptoms of celiac disease to go away once starting and maintaining a

>gluten-free diet. The following article was posted 09/25/2002 on

>medscape.com:

>

> " Histologic Follow-Up of People With Celiac Disease on a Gluten-Free Diet:

>Slow and Incomplete Recovery " , Am J Clin Pathol 118(3):459-463, 2002.

>=A9 2002 American Society of Clinical Pathologists, Inc.

>

>The complete article is at:

>

>http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/440971

>

>Here is the Abstract:

>

> " To assess histologic recovery in response to gluten withdrawal in celiac

>disease, 158 patients seen in our hospital during a 15-year period

>underwent follow-up small intestine biopsies (SIBs) within 2 years after

>starting a gluten-free diet; further SIBs were done if villous atrophy was

>present. A modified Marsh classification was used (IIIA, partial villous

>atrophy; IIIB, subtotal villous atrophy; IIIC, total villous atrophy).

>

>Of patients with Marsh IIIA, IIIB, or IIIC lesions, histologic remission

>was seen in 65.0% within 2 years, 85.3% within 5 years, and 89.9% in long-

>term follow-up. Eleven patients (7.0%) with persisting (partial) villous

>atrophy had symptoms and signs of malabsorption and were considered to have

>refractory celiac disease; 5 of them developed an enteropathy-associated T-

>cell lymphoma. Children recovered up to 95% within 2 years and 100% in the

>long-term.

>

>Histologic recovery in celiac disease after starting a gluten-free diet

>takes time and is incomplete or absent in a substantial subgroup of

>patients (10.1% villous atrophy after 5 years). Systematic follow-up of

>patients with celiac disease and the malabsorption syndrome and secondary

>complications is needed. "

>

>Note, that after 2 years on a GF diet, some 35% of patients still have

>symptoms! 15% after 5 years! No wonder there are so many posts on the

>Celiac List complaining of problems long after going on a GF diet.

>

>

>

>-- Heidi Jean

>

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage.

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