Re: Gluten and Arthritis - OT

[Guest guest]

Hi Ellen;

I apologize for the off topic post, but I am only 31 and I have

pretty bad arthritis in my hands, feet, and hips so I really wanted

to ask you a little more about this. Could you tell me how long and

how severly you had arthritis before you cut out gluten? Also, what

made you think to stop eating gluten, did you have some sort of

testing or did you stop eating it for another reason and found it

coincidentally.

Thanks so much for any info you can provide.

Jill

> Vicki,

> I just had to jump in here and let you know that my arthritis went

> away when I stopped eating gluten (I was not expecting that result

at

> all.)

[Guest guest]

I just may try cutting out the Gluten cuz I really am getting tierd of

my hands hurting so bad. Mainly the thumbs. It makes it really hard to milk.

What's some heavy sorces of Gluten that you cut out?

One of my cows, Domino, that has very small tits and is a heavy

producer so it ends up taking me 20 minutes to milk her. She's SOOOO good

and stands very still all the time. When she knows I'm having a hard time

getting to the back tits close to her legs she, trys to spread her legs

wider for me without kicking the bucket. I try to push the bag forward a

little with my right hand and work the tit over the forfinger with my thumb

on the left hand. Once I get that 1/4 down a little and it gets alittle

easier to grab, I'll work it with the other hand.

I can't believe how patient she is with me. Seeing I don't milk her

unless I have the customers for extra milk. It was 2 calving cycles since I

last milked her and she's so good it's like she's milked every day. She's a

lucky mom and gets to raise her calf on her (sometimes Winks calf too)

without it being taken from her. I was hoping that after a couple of years

it would increase the size of her tits, but they haven't gotten very big.

Vick L.

>

>Reply-To: RawDairy

>To: RawDairy

>Subject: Re: Gluten and Arthritis - OT

>Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 03:11:40 -0000

>

>

>Hi Ellen;

>

>I apologize for the off topic post, but I am only 31 and I have

>pretty bad arthritis in my hands, feet, and hips so I really wanted

>to ask you a little more about this. Could you tell me how long and

>how severly you had arthritis before you cut out gluten? Also, what

>made you think to stop eating gluten, did you have some sort of

>testing or did you stop eating it for another reason and found it

>coincidentally.

>

>Thanks so much for any info you can provide.

>

>Jill

>

> > Vicki,

> > I just had to jump in here and let you know that my arthritis went

> > away when I stopped eating gluten (I was not expecting that result

>at

> > all.)

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Bread is where you find most of the gluten. It's in the flour. If you are

going to eat bread, get grains you can grind or make sure the flour is

gluten free or whole grain flour.

K.C.

Re: Gluten and Arthritis - OT

>>Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 03:11:40 -0000

>>

>>

>>Hi Ellen;

>>

>>I apologize for the off topic post, but I am only 31 and I have

>>pretty bad arthritis in my hands, feet, and hips so I really wanted

>>to ask you a little more about this. Could you tell me how long and

>>how severly you had arthritis before you cut out gluten? Also, what

>>made you think to stop eating gluten, did you have some sort of

>>testing or did you stop eating it for another reason and found it

>>coincidentally.

>>

>>Thanks so much for any info you can provide.

>>

>>Jill

>>

>> > Vicki,

>> > I just had to jump in here and let you know that my arthritis went

>> > away when I stopped eating gluten (I was not expecting that result

>>at

>> > all.)

>>

>>

>>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!

> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

>

>

>

>

> PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!

> Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Ellen;

>

> I apologize for the off topic post, but I am only 31 and I have

> pretty bad arthritis in my hands, feet, and hips so I really wanted

> to ask you a little more about this. Could you tell me how long

and

> how severly you had arthritis before you cut out gluten? Also,

what

> made you think to stop eating gluten, did you have some sort of

> testing or did you stop eating it for another reason and found it

> coincidentally.

>

> Thanks so much for any info you can provide.

>

> Jill

>

> > Vicki,

> > I just had to jump in here and let you know that my arthritis went

> > away when I stopped eating gluten (I was not expecting that

result

> at

> > all.)

My question would be are we talking osteo arthritis or rheumatoid

arthritis? DH has RA and we've now been off of gluten for 2 1/2

weeks. At the same time we both started taking cod liver oil. Now

that he seems to be getting somewhat better, we don't know which one

to give the credit to. RA is very unpredictable, in that what is

affected one day isn't a problem the next. As to why we are going

glutenless, mainly because his rheumy is threating to put him on

higher dose meds. We have read over and over about how grains in

general and gluten in particular, in some people, can have a very

negative effect on their rheumatoid arthritis. We figured it

wouldn't hurt us to give it a try for a few weeks/months to see if it

would help. Some trial and error later and I've got a bread recipe

that is working for us. The flours are: 1 cup each of white bean and

rice along with 1/2 cup each of tapioca flour and cornstarch(non GM

of course). It is a yeasted bread with 3 eggs to help with the

rising. I soak the white bean and rice flour for 24 to 36 hours in

whey and/or kefir and/or fresh buttermilk. Any combination seems to

work. I let the bread machine do the mixing and the first rise, then

I scoop it out and put in a loaf pan to rise the second time. I've

made the same recipe with variations for morning toast - cinnamon and

dried currents in one loaf and date pieces, cinnamon and crispy

pecans on the second loaf (the winner!). Very yummy actually.

Oh and BTW gluten is in wheat, rye, barley and to a much lesser

amount in oats.

Whether this will be something that will help his RA long term or not

remains to be seen. Anyone out there have a testamonial on giving up

gluten and their RA gets better, I'd like to hear about it. Feel

free to email me off list if you want.

Rhonda

[Guest guest]

That's good. I don't eat alot of bread and the bread I make is made with

whole wheat and stone ground flour.

Vick

>

>Reply-To: RawDairy

>To: <RawDairy >

>Subject: Re: Re: Gluten and Arthritis - OT

>Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 15:48:41 -0700

>

>

>Bread is where you find most of the gluten. It's in the flour. If you are

>going to eat bread, get grains you can grind or make sure the flour is

>gluten free or whole grain flour.

>

>K.C.

>

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[Guest guest]

Oh what a sweeetie!

I just posted a link that may help. Also google " gluten " for links

(you'll come up with a lot of celiac disease sites as well)

Good luck

Ellen in Hume VA

>

> What's some heavy sorces of Gluten that you cut out?

> One of my cows, Domino, that has very small tits and is a heavy

> producer so it ends up taking me 20 minutes to milk her. She's SOOOO

good

> and stands very still all the time. When she knows I'm having a hard

time

>

[Guest guest]

Oh what a sweeetie!

I just posted a link that may help. Also google " gluten " for links

(you'll come up with a lot of celiac disease sites as well)

Good luck

Ellen in Hume VA

>

> What's some heavy sorces of Gluten that you cut out?

> One of my cows, Domino, that has very small tits and is a heavy

> producer so it ends up taking me 20 minutes to milk her. She's SOOOO

good

> and stands very still all the time. When she knows I'm having a hard

time

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks bunches Ellen. ;o)

>

>Reply-To: RawDairy

>To: RawDairy

>Subject: Re: Gluten and Arthritis - OT

>Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 17:40:58 -0000

>

>

>

>Oh what a sweeetie!

>

>I just posted a link that may help. Also google " gluten " for links

>(you'll come up with a lot of celiac disease sites as well)

>

>Good luck

>

>

>Ellen in Hume VA

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > What's some heavy sorces of Gluten that you cut out?

> > One of my cows, Domino, that has very small tits and is a heavy

> > producer so it ends up taking me 20 minutes to milk her. She's SOOOO

>good

> > and stands very still all the time. When she knows I'm having a hard

>time

> >

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

K.C. and Vicki

Sorry I didn't catch this earlier. Gluten is in wheat, whether you

grind it yourself or buy it ground, whole grain or not, or purchase

anything made with it...bread pasta, cake etc. It is also in spelt,

rye, kamut, and barley. It is not in rice, wild rice, buckwheat,

quinoa, or corn. It is probably not in oats, but oats are often

processed in plants that process gluten containing foods so oats can

be a problem for some people. So if you are going to experiment you

need to go off all gluten for a while.

Ellen

> That's good. I don't eat alot of bread and the bread I make is made

with

> whole wheat and stone ground flour.

> Vick

>

> >From: " Tinybabe " <tinybabe2@r...>

> >Reply-To: RawDairy

> >To: <RawDairy >

> >Subject: Re: Re: Gluten and Arthritis - OT

> >Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 15:48:41 -0700

> >

> >

> >Bread is where you find most of the gluten. It's in the flour. If

you are

> >going to eat bread, get grains you can grind or make sure the flour is

> >gluten free or whole grain flour.

> >

> >K.C.

> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now!

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[Guest guest]

I didn't realize it was in whole grains. I thought it was added to the processed flours.

I buy organic oat flour from Bob's Red Mill. I wouldn't think they have any in there. They offer lots of gluten free products.

K.C.

Re: Re: Gluten and Arthritis - OT> >Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 15:48:41 -0700> >> >> >Bread is where you find most of the gluten. It's in the flour. Ifyou are> >going to eat bread, get grains you can grind or make sure the flour is> >gluten free or whole grain flour.> >> >K.C.> >> > _________________________________________________________________> FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

[Guest guest]

[K.C.] Bread is where you find most of the gluten. It's in the flour.

If you are

going to eat bread, get grains you can grind or make sure the flour is

gluten free or whole grain flour.

[Vick] That's good. I don't eat alot of bread and the bread I make is made with

whole wheat and stone ground flour.

[MAP] <groan> I can't believe I'm reading this... This thread is

painful.... This topic is way too serious for surreally incoherent

statements like K.C.'s... Wheat gluten is in any food whatsoever that

contains wheat, barley, or rye in any form whatsoever, regardless of

whether it's whole grain or how it's ground. It goes way beyond

bread. Vick, you owe it to yourself to spend a good many hours

googling and reading up on this topic. You will find countless

resources on the web.

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay

[Guest guest]

Mike, I guess I'm one of the lucky people who don't have problems with gluten. I didn't know it was in whole grains. I don't eat a lot of bread or flour ridden products. I do eat more oats and grind my own oat flour when I need it. The other times when I'm lazy, I get oat flour from Bob's Red Barn.

I guess I don't have arthritis either or I would be affected by gluten?

K.C.

Re: Re: Gluten and Arthritis - OT

[K.C.] Bread is where you find most of the gluten. It's in the flour.If you aregoing to eat bread, get grains you can grind or make sure the flour isgluten free or whole grain flour.[Vick] That's good. I don't eat alot of bread and the bread I make is made withwhole wheat and stone ground flour.[MAP] <groan> I can't believe I'm reading this... This thread ispainful.... This topic is way too serious for surreally incoherentstatements like K.C.'s... Wheat gluten is in any food whatsoever thatcontains wheat, barley, or rye in any form whatsoever, regardless ofwhether it's whole grain or how it's ground. It goes way beyondbread. Vick, you owe it to yourself to spend a good many hoursgoogling and reading up on this topic. You will find countlessresources on the web.Mike SE PennsylvaniaThe best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan KayPLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

[Guest guest]

> I guess I don't have arthritis either or I would be affected by

gluten?

K.C.

Actually this is one of the things that I'm trying to find out about

gluten. My hubby has rheumatoid arthritis and we are currently

experimenting with going gluten free. This Thursday will be 3

weeks. We also went on CLO at about the same time. Now his symptoms

seem to be lessening. OK, so which one is helping? Or is it both?

(Me, yeah, well, I'm just now up and around after a bout with flu -

now why did I get that? Daily kefir, good fats, low sugar, CLO, no

gluten, plenty of raw milk, cream and butter? I'm baffled)

I don't think that just because a person has arthritis you are

automatically affected by gluten. I do know that we've read over and

over that *many* autoimmune diseases may be caused by or negatively

affected by gluten. I've also read recently on another group that a

very large percentage of the American population probably has an

intolerance to gluten - whether they have symptoms or not.

Apparently it is one of the causes of leaky gut - and leaky gut can

be a cause of lots of major health problems.

At this point though, I'd have to say that the jury is out. It's

just a Mike says though, gluten is part of the grain itself -

wheat, rye, barley and to a lesser extent oats. And the bummer from

what I'm reading is that looks like sprouting the grains won't remove

the gluten, and in fact may actually accentuate the gluten content.

Go figure.

Now, back to us. How long will we go gluten free? I don't know. DH

is almost at the desperate stage as his rheumy is telling him if his

RA gets any worse, she's talking about Enbrel (really wicked stuff!)

so he's all in favor of staying off the gluten for a while longer to

see how he fares. He is, BTW, the epitome of " if it's edible is goes

between 2 slices of bread with mayo. " So this has put some pressure

on me to come up with a good bread. Currently I am making a white

bean flour/rice flour yeasted bread - soaking the flour in kefir/whey

or whatever I have on hand. The recipe is actually quite tasty.

K.C., I am on several health yahoo groups and it's amazing just how

many people there are who know from personal experience about things

I know nothing about. I'm actually on a couple of dozen that I go no

email and just occasionally read from the yahoo site itself. Many of

the subjects aren't even things that pertain to my life, but I learn

so much. Mostly I lurk and listen and learn, rather than jump in on

discussions. I do contribute by speaking up on subjects that I

personally know about. But like with this gluten/arthritis thing -

mostly I ask questions when I unlurk. Then I take away lots of ideas

and work through them on my own.

Rhonda

who now needs to start soaking the flours for tomorrow's bread

[Guest guest]

Rhonda: Do you and your husband take any vitamin C? If so, what kind? When I was studying nutrition (basically relating to osteo type problems and allergies), there was no doubt that Vitamin C made a big difference in how people with arthritis were affected. In other words, taking the right amount of the right kind of Vitamin C will lesson the pain and help the joints. It will also strengthen your immune system. Along with MSM (a relative new comer - within the last 5-10 years) and glucosamine sulfate, you might see even more improvement. I would hate you see anyone go on meds if they don't have to. They adversly affect other parts of the body.

Most people taking Vitamin C, and not particularly people here, but in the mainstream, don't realize that the vitamin C they are taking is synthetic. Basically useless.

K.C.

Re: Gluten and Arthritis - OT

> I guess I don't have arthritis either or I would be affected by gluten?K.C.Actually this is one of the things that I'm trying to find out about gluten. My hubby has rheumatoid arthritis and we are currently experimenting with going gluten free. This Thursday will be 3 weeks. We also went on CLO at about the same time. Now his symptoms seem to be lessening. OK, so which one is helping? Or is it both? (Me, yeah, well, I'm just now up and around after a bout with flu - now why did I get that? Daily kefir, good fats, low sugar, CLO, no gluten, plenty of raw milk, cream and butter? I'm baffled)I don't think that just because a person has arthritis you are automatically affected by gluten. I do know that we've read over and over that *many* autoimmune diseases may be caused by or negatively affected by gluten. I've also read recently on another group that a very large percentage of the American population probably has an intolerance to gluten - whether they have symptoms or not. Apparently it is one of the causes of leaky gut - and leaky gut can be a cause of lots of major health problems. At this point though, I'd have to say that the jury is out. It's just a Mike says though, gluten is part of the grain itself - wheat, rye, barley and to a lesser extent oats. And the bummer from what I'm reading is that looks like sprouting the grains won't remove the gluten, and in fact may actually accentuate the gluten content. Go figure.Now, back to us. How long will we go gluten free? I don't know. DH is almost at the desperate stage as his rheumy is telling him if his RA gets any worse, she's talking about Enbrel (really wicked stuff!) so he's all in favor of staying off the gluten for a while longer to see how he fares. He is, BTW, the epitome of "if it's edible is goes between 2 slices of bread with mayo." So this has put some pressure on me to come up with a good bread. Currently I am making a white bean flour/rice flour yeasted bread - soaking the flour in kefir/whey or whatever I have on hand. The recipe is actually quite tasty.K.C., I am on several health yahoo groups and it's amazing just how many people there are who know from personal experience about things I know nothing about. I'm actually on a couple of dozen that I go no email and just occasionally read from the yahoo site itself. Many of the subjects aren't even things that pertain to my life, but I learn so much. Mostly I lurk and listen and learn, rather than jump in on discussions. I do contribute by speaking up on subjects that I personally know about. But like with this gluten/arthritis thing - mostly I ask questions when I unlurk. Then I take away lots of ideas and work through them on my own. Rhondawho now needs to start soaking the flours for tomorrow's bread PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

[Guest guest]

> Rhonda: Do you and your husband take any vitamin C? If so, what

kind? When I was studying nutrition (basically relating to osteo

type problems and allergies), there was no doubt that Vitamin C made

a big difference in how people with arthritis were affected. In

other words, taking the right amount of the right kind of Vitamin C

will lesson the pain and help the joints. It will also strengthen

your immune system. Along with MSM (a relative new comer - within

the last 5-10 years) and glucosamine sulfate, you might see even more

improvement. I would hate you see anyone go on meds if they don't

have to. They adversly affect other parts of the body.

>

> Most people taking Vitamin C, and not particularly people here, but

in the mainstream, don't realize that the vitamin C they are taking

is synthetic. Basically useless.

Yeah, K.C. we take Vit C. Natrol's Ester-C with bioflavonoids. We

haven't had DH on any glucosamine since we'd read that it's mainly

for osteoarthritis - although I guess a person could technically have

both types of arthritis. MSM - no. He does take grapeseed/grapeskin

extract daily and the C daily, and a good multi when we happen to

think of buying it, and now of course 2 teaspoon daily of CLO. He's

already on Plaquenil and Methotrexate - both of which have to be

watched as one clobbers the retinas and the other the liver. Great

huh? He was also on, and has weened himself off of (without the drs'

*permission* if you will), high dose naproxen. (Oh and did his

rheumy call him up and warn him when the news hit a month or so ago

about the health dangers of naproxen? NOOOO!) All they want to do is

keep bringing out the big guns. He told her last Monday that he was

going gluten free and she just shrugged and said something like 'well

if you think you feel better...' - which he interpreted to mean more

like 'well if you think you feel better...but it won't help you

anyway' - and almost in the same breath said that he should really

consider trying Embrel. Did I read recently that Embrel costs

something like $1,000 a month to take? Wouldn't our health insurance

just love that? I've heard rumors that drs get kickbacks from

prescription drug companies - anyone know if that's true?

I'm heading to bed - night all

Rhonda

[Guest guest]

Mike honey, your knowledge is impressive, but your approach could

use a little polish. Try to keep it constructive, OK? :-)

-Blair

> [MAP] <groan> I can't believe I'm reading this... This thread is

> painful.... > Mike

> SE Pennsylvania

>

> The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay

[Guest guest]

[K.C.] Mike, I guess I'm one of the lucky people who don't have

problems with gluten. I didn't know it was in whole grains. I don't

eat a lot of bread or flour ridden products. I do eat more oats and

grind my own oat flour when I need it. The other times when I'm lazy,

I get oat flour from Bob's Red Barn.

[MAP] I don't have any problems with gluten either (or any other

food), but in a way, I don't believe people like us are lucky. I think

the gluten-intolerant people are luckier, becuase they are forced to

stop eating foods that probably aren't good for anybody, gluten

tolerant or otherwise, whereas we can be carefree to our possible

detriment. For myself, based on theoretical considerations, I've

decided to eliminate wheat and any other grains from my diet. It's a

personal (yes, idiosyncratic and not recommended to others) commitment

to optimal health, which can only be measured in probabilities.

[K.C.] I guess I don't have arthritis either or I would be affected by gluten?

[MAP] Most people have no detectable problems with gluten and hence

none of the associated symptoms. Certainly among them are many

arthritics.

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay

[Guest guest]

Doctors don't know Jack S--T about nutritional supplements. A doctor told me that drinking aloe wouldn't help with a problem I had caused by another doctor and put me on one of those acid blockers. Boy did that screw me up. I kept up with the aloe and told the doc that he should read up on it since it totally took care of the problem. His attitude was, "well, if you need me, call" and walked out. They get real uppity when you talk nutrition.

And yes, they have been getting kick backs for eons. May I suggest that you go to Great Earth's site (www.greatearth.com) and check out their NSP (Nutritional Supplement Program) supplements? All of their supplements are derived from natural resources and yes, they do use Ester C. I take the 1000 or 1500 mg. C with bioflavonoids as well. I take the whole program which consists of a great multi vitamin, an anti oxidant (from dry E), Vitamin C and minerals (all chealated) and if you buy the whole program, you get the minerals free. Been taking them for years. Even got my dad to start years ago and I think that's why he's in such good shape for 85. My mom refuses to take anything and has weak bones and other problems.

I'm sorry to sound like an advertisement, but I've checked out many vitamin supplements and none compare in potency. They aren't cheap, but they are well worth it.

I think the raw dairy has helped me as well. There's nothing that can be done for the nerve damage I've suffered, but at least the rest of me is still working OK for an old broad.

Buck up, doctors don't know everything. Keep researching the meds and do what is best for YOU. The raw dairy and good supplementation will probably do better then all the meds, but you can't just stop taking meds without researching it first. You have to remember, the meds you are taking were created because there was, at one time, a more natural thing that helped and the drug companies decided to immitate it in order to make big bucks.

You might even consider getting a doctor that is more of a naturepath MD. At least they will work with you and not belittle you for taking a more natural path to health.

K.C.

Re: Gluten and Arthritis - OT

> Rhonda: Do you and your husband take any vitamin C? If so, what kind? When I was studying nutrition (basically relating to osteo type problems and allergies), there was no doubt that Vitamin C made a big difference in how people with arthritis were affected. In other words, taking the right amount of the right kind of Vitamin C will lesson the pain and help the joints. It will also strengthen your immune system. Along with MSM (a relative new comer - within the last 5-10 years) and glucosamine sulfate, you might see even more improvement. I would hate you see anyone go on meds if they don't have to. They adversly affect other parts of the body.> > Most people taking Vitamin C, and not particularly people here, but in the mainstream, don't realize that the vitamin C they are taking is synthetic. Basically useless.Yeah, K.C. we take Vit C. Natrol's Ester-C with bioflavonoids. We haven't had DH on any glucosamine since we'd read that it's mainly for osteoarthritis - although I guess a person could technically have both types of arthritis. MSM - no. He does take grapeseed/grapeskin extract daily and the C daily, and a good multi when we happen to think of buying it, and now of course 2 teaspoon daily of CLO. He's already on Plaquenil and Methotrexate - both of which have to be watched as one clobbers the retinas and the other the liver. Great huh? He was also on, and has weened himself off of (without the drs' *permission* if you will), high dose naproxen. (Oh and did his rheumy call him up and warn him when the news hit a month or so ago about the health dangers of naproxen? NOOOO!) All they want to do is keep bringing out the big guns. He told her last Monday that he was going gluten free and she just shrugged and said something like 'well if you think you feel better...' - which he interpreted to mean more like 'well if you think you feel better...but it won't help you anyway' - and almost in the same breath said that he should really consider trying Embrel. Did I read recently that Embrel costs something like $1,000 a month to take? Wouldn't our health insurance just love that? I've heard rumors that drs get kickbacks from prescription drug companies - anyone know if that's true?I'm heading to bed - night allRhondaPLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

[Guest guest]

Doctors don't know Jack S--T about nutritional supplements. A doctor told me that drinking aloe wouldn't help with a problem I had caused by another doctor and put me on one of those acid blockers. Boy did that screw me up. I kept up with the aloe and told the doc that he should read up on it since it totally took care of the problem. His attitude was, "well, if you need me, call" and walked out. They get real uppity when you talk nutrition.

And yes, they have been getting kick backs for eons. May I suggest that you go to Great Earth's site (www.greatearth.com) and check out their NSP (Nutritional Supplement Program) supplements? All of their supplements are derived from natural resources and yes, they do use Ester C. I take the 1000 or 1500 mg. C with bioflavonoids as well. I take the whole program which consists of a great multi vitamin, an anti oxidant (from dry E), Vitamin C and minerals (all chealated) and if you buy the whole program, you get the minerals free. Been taking them for years. Even got my dad to start years ago and I think that's why he's in such good shape for 85. My mom refuses to take anything and has weak bones and other problems.

I'm sorry to sound like an advertisement, but I've checked out many vitamin supplements and none compare in potency. They aren't cheap, but they are well worth it.

I think the raw dairy has helped me as well. There's nothing that can be done for the nerve damage I've suffered, but at least the rest of me is still working OK for an old broad.

Buck up, doctors don't know everything. Keep researching the meds and do what is best for YOU. The raw dairy and good supplementation will probably do better then all the meds, but you can't just stop taking meds without researching it first. You have to remember, the meds you are taking were created because there was, at one time, a more natural thing that helped and the drug companies decided to immitate it in order to make big bucks.

You might even consider getting a doctor that is more of a naturepath MD. At least they will work with you and not belittle you for taking a more natural path to health.

K.C.

Re: Gluten and Arthritis - OT

> Rhonda: Do you and your husband take any vitamin C? If so, what kind? When I was studying nutrition (basically relating to osteo type problems and allergies), there was no doubt that Vitamin C made a big difference in how people with arthritis were affected. In other words, taking the right amount of the right kind of Vitamin C will lesson the pain and help the joints. It will also strengthen your immune system. Along with MSM (a relative new comer - within the last 5-10 years) and glucosamine sulfate, you might see even more improvement. I would hate you see anyone go on meds if they don't have to. They adversly affect other parts of the body.> > Most people taking Vitamin C, and not particularly people here, but in the mainstream, don't realize that the vitamin C they are taking is synthetic. Basically useless.Yeah, K.C. we take Vit C. Natrol's Ester-C with bioflavonoids. We haven't had DH on any glucosamine since we'd read that it's mainly for osteoarthritis - although I guess a person could technically have both types of arthritis. MSM - no. He does take grapeseed/grapeskin extract daily and the C daily, and a good multi when we happen to think of buying it, and now of course 2 teaspoon daily of CLO. He's already on Plaquenil and Methotrexate - both of which have to be watched as one clobbers the retinas and the other the liver. Great huh? He was also on, and has weened himself off of (without the drs' *permission* if you will), high dose naproxen. (Oh and did his rheumy call him up and warn him when the news hit a month or so ago about the health dangers of naproxen? NOOOO!) All they want to do is keep bringing out the big guns. He told her last Monday that he was going gluten free and she just shrugged and said something like 'well if you think you feel better...' - which he interpreted to mean more like 'well if you think you feel better...but it won't help you anyway' - and almost in the same breath said that he should really consider trying Embrel. Did I read recently that Embrel costs something like $1,000 a month to take? Wouldn't our health insurance just love that? I've heard rumors that drs get kickbacks from prescription drug companies - anyone know if that's true?I'm heading to bed - night allRhondaPLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

[Guest guest]

Rhonda - I can recommend a couple of naturopaths that are really top notch here in the valley.

Aliza

You might even consider getting a doctor that is more of a naturepath MD. At least they will work with you and not belittle you for taking a more natural path to health.

K.C.

[Guest guest]

Rhonda - I can recommend a couple of naturopaths that are really top notch here in the valley.

Aliza

You might even consider getting a doctor that is more of a naturepath MD. At least they will work with you and not belittle you for taking a more natural path to health.

K.C.

[Guest guest]

How about steel cut oats? I love Irish Oats by McCain (steel cut) because they have such a good flavor. I've gotten other steel cut oats and the flavor is not the same. Those are what I put into my poor little Cuisinart to grind up when I want some oat flour. I prefer the sweetness of oats over wheat anyway. Just like I prefer peacans over walnuts. Please don't tell me there's something wrong with peacans (LOL). I've even gone to rice noodles over traditional pasta. I order them from an Asian Market on line.

I even search out all oat cereals when I'm in the mood for cold cereal. But most of the stuff on the shelf is wheat. Even the organic stuff.

I've been an avid ingredient reader for years and years. Most of the stuff I purchased 10-20 years ago are off my list now because of some of the crap they include. It wasn't even a thoughtful move, just something that came about naturally. I think if more people read labels, they would be horrified at what is in food items today.

That's probably why more and more people are swearing off milk in the market. However, considering the tons of milk and milk products that are sold daily, it's going to take time to get the majority of people to think and eat right.

K.C.

Re: Re: Gluten and Arthritis - OT

[K.C.] Mike, I guess I'm one of the lucky people who don't haveproblems with gluten. I didn't know it was in whole grains. I don'teat a lot of bread or flour ridden products. I do eat more oats andgrind my own oat flour when I need it. The other times when I'm lazy,I get oat flour from Bob's Red Barn.[MAP] I don't have any problems with gluten either (or any otherfood), but in a way, I don't believe people like us are lucky. I thinkthe gluten-intolerant people are luckier, becuase they are forced tostop eating foods that probably aren't good for anybody, glutentolerant or otherwise, whereas we can be carefree to our possibledetriment. For myself, based on theoretical considerations, I'vedecided to eliminate wheat and any other grains from my diet. It's apersonal (yes, idiosyncratic and not recommended to others) commitmentto optimal health, which can only be measured in probabilities.[K.C.] I guess I don't have arthritis either or I would be affected by gluten?[MAP] Most people have no detectable problems with gluten and hencenone of the associated symptoms. Certainly among them are manyarthritics.Mike SE PennsylvaniaThe best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan KayPLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

[Guest guest]

KC wrote:

>I even search out all oat cereals when I'm in the mood for cold cereal.

I think somebody already mentioned that oats are gluten-free, but that they sometimes get prepared on the same equipment that processes wheat, so that they can be contaminated (which is bad for people who are truly allergic to gluten).

Here's something you might like for cold cereal. Bearing in mind that all seeds and nuts should really be soaked overnight to deactivate phylates.

4 oz oats

2 oz kefir

2 oz water

Put ingredients into a cereal bowl. Stir, cover and soak overnight. Next morning, stir in your choice of sweetener such as apple sauce, maple syrup, honey or whatever. It's yummy! You can graduate to 4 oz of kefir if you like.

Cheers,

and the K9's

[Guest guest]

I appreciate both Mike's knowledge and his no-nonsense delivery style.

> > [MAP] <groan> I can't believe I'm reading this... This thread is

> > painful.... > Mike

> > SE Pennsylvania

[Guest guest]

I appreciate both Mike's knowledge and his no-nonsense delivery style.

> > [MAP] <groan> I can't believe I'm reading this... This thread is

> > painful.... > Mike

> > SE Pennsylvania