Re: Re: Dehorning is against my religion

[Guest guest]

I totally agree with everything you have said. I do want to mention that Miniature Jersey bulls are NOT the mean, nasty animals of their larger distant cousins. I had a Miniature Jersey bull who never got nasty with me. The only reason I had to sell him was because he would get out and run onto the road and I was afraid he would be killed or hurt someone in the car/truck that hit him.

As I mentioned earlier, I had a very sweet Highland with those awesome horns. She was a delight to be around and never used those horns on me, UNTIL she calved. I had to be at the dentist (had an emergency) the morning she calved and I carried the calf to the corral with her by my side.....no problem. I put them both in there and loved on her and her baby.....no problem. Then, I went into the house, got the vaccines and came back. Gave one vaccine and she went for me with those horns (and boy did she know exactly how to use them) and I have to say that I moved faster than I've moved in 10 years and if I hadn't, I would have had my right breast removed. As it was, the horn tip did catch the breast and I had one heck of a scrape (could have been a major gauge), which took months to totally go away. Thought I was going to be scared for life and had to go to the doc to make sure she didn't damage it. I know she was protecting her baby, but I have NEVER had any of my girls resent me working with their calves.

Once she was out of the corral, we never had a problem again. Not until the day she went after Margie's calf.

Horns are not necessary in a small farm operation. Those people who like to keep the horns on animals don't deal with them on a daily basis or they too would disbud at a very early age.

Margie's horns were corrupted when the men that brought her here as a calf tried to remove them with my LIMB CUTTERS. I almost freaked. But, they grew back, CROOKED. The ONLY time I have had a problem with them is when I have bent down and hit one with my head (LOL) because I mis-judged where they were. MAN, THOSE THINGS ARE HARD!!!

K.C.

Re: Dehorning is against my religion

There is a big difference between dehorning an adult cow with a full set of functional horns and dehorning a young calf who is still in the wobbly bud stage. I dehorn my calves for my own safety, for the safety of my other animals, and other people. There is no way on God's green earth I would leave a steer horned. Have you ever had an 1100 lb animal come thundering over to you with his head swinging because he wants to play? Or been knocked by a cows head as she suddenly turns around? Do you know what kind of damage that could do to a person?As for castrating- a sexually mature male bovine is a danger, plain and simple. Any bovine is dangerous, just by their shear size, but your average steer or milk cow isn't a boiling bundle of hormones and muscle. Beef bulls aren't as ill tempered as dairy bulls, but you have to be extremely careful around them and God help you if they decide they don't like you someday. Our neighbor kept a bull for his milk cows and he was as docile as could be and one day he just went after the farmer and threw him across the barn. WeldonA Bit of Earth FarmLitchfield, Ohio> > The book "Edenbank Accounts" is about the creation of the > Edenbank dairyfarm in Chilliwack British Columbia which had one of > the world's prize Ayreshire herds in the 1930s / 40s and 50s.> > It relates an anecdote about the day the whole herd was dehorned at > once. Some animals lost as much as 150 pounds from the shock. That > decision was made NOT because it had anything to do with better > conditions for the animals, but because one of the family had had a > very close call with the herdsire.> > I won't go out as far into woo-woo-land, as the > biodynamic "scientists" do with their 'prep' thingys, but I won't be > dehorning my livestock, either.> > Read the farming practices God decreed for the ancient Israelites in > the Bible. They're as valid here today in the New JerUSAlem as they > were then in the old. > > Particularly offensive is castration. Sure, the entire North American > meat business is predicated on such "herd management techniques" but > that doesn't make it right. We are what we eat = quit feeding your > children the flesh of eunuchs, unless that's what you want them to be > when they grow up.PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

[Guest guest]

Tinybabe wrote:

> *I totally agree with everything you have said. I do want to mention

> that Miniature Jersey bulls are NOT the mean, nasty animals of their

> larger distant cousins. I had a Miniature Jersey bull who never got

> nasty with me. The only reason I had to sell him was because he would

> get out and run onto the road and I was afraid he would be killed or

> hurt someone in the car/truck that hit him. *

> **

Hey. What do you mean. We have a six year old Jersey bull who has no

ring in his nose. He is a perfectly behaved gentleman. We have a two

year old bull who isn't too bad but, suffers from second in command

syndrome. He still is very manageable.

Older bull is pushing a ton. Compared to a couple 18 hand Percherons we

have, he is not all that big.

Bunting

[Guest guest]

Well, most people you talk to will tell you that a Jersey bull "is the meanest thing on 4 legs". They have killed more people than any other breed of bull. Maybe you got lucky or they have worked on temperament in your area. Out here, they are just flat dangerous and people don't keep them unless they are a steer for the freezer.

When I got my minis, every person I know was terrified for me because there was a bull in the mix (trio of Mini Jerseys). Everything I read said the minis weren't mean. My opinion on this is that when they grew them big, they ignored temperament. What I have observed is that big Jersey bulls have lost their fear of man. Mini Jerseys have retained that and are very manageable.

Just last year a Jersey bull got a friend of mine and he spent 3 months in the hospital. I would say you are very lucky to have the breeding that you do.

Mini Jersey don't get that big. Usually they max out at about 700-800 lbs. However, Sammy the Bull was 39" and weighed 1000 lbs. Maybe you have a mini and don't know it. (LOL).

K.C.

Re: Re: Dehorning is against my religion

Tinybabe wrote:> *I totally agree with everything you have said. I do want to mention > that Miniature Jersey bulls are NOT the mean, nasty animals of their > larger distant cousins. I had a Miniature Jersey bull who never got > nasty with me. The only reason I had to sell him was because he would > get out and run onto the road and I was afraid he would be killed or > hurt someone in the car/truck that hit him. *> ** Hey. What do you mean. We have a six year old Jersey bull who has no ring in his nose. He is a perfectly behaved gentleman. We have a two year old bull who isn't too bad but, suffers from second in command syndrome. He still is very manageable. Older bull is pushing a ton. Compared to a couple 18 hand Percherons we have, he is not all that big. BuntingPLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/

[Guest guest]

> Those people who like to keep the horns on animals don't deal with them on a daily basis or they too would

> disbud at a very early age.

Now wait just a minute! That is not true. I "deal with" them several times a day...probably more than you, K.C., because I'm around them enough to realize what "mood" of each of my animals are in, especially when they have young at their sides. I've been raised around livestock my entire live. And one of the most important things we were all taught at a very early age was that with a horned animal, you must always be aware of what's going on around you at all times...not just nonchalantly go waltzing into the pen while having your mind elsewhere. People have been kicked in the head and stomped by horses, too. But that doesn't mean we all need to cut their hooves off. I'm not telling anyone they are wrong for choosing to dehorn/disbud, as it's a personal preference. But I do resent the implication that I am wrong or "don't deal with them" , simply because I choose NOT to dehorn/disbud.

Shona

Goodridge Farms

South Central Missouri

[Guest guest]

> Those people who like to keep the horns on animals don't deal with them on a daily basis or they too would

> disbud at a very early age.

Now wait just a minute! That is not true. I "deal with" them several times a day...probably more than you, K.C., because I'm around them enough to realize what "mood" of each of my animals are in, especially when they have young at their sides. I've been raised around livestock my entire live. And one of the most important things we were all taught at a very early age was that with a horned animal, you must always be aware of what's going on around you at all times...not just nonchalantly go waltzing into the pen while having your mind elsewhere. People have been kicked in the head and stomped by horses, too. But that doesn't mean we all need to cut their hooves off. I'm not telling anyone they are wrong for choosing to dehorn/disbud, as it's a personal preference. But I do resent the implication that I am wrong or "don't deal with them" , simply because I choose NOT to dehorn/disbud.

Shona

Goodridge Farms

South Central Missouri

[Guest guest]

Didn't mean to step on your toes. But, I am out with my animals all the time and know their mood. You can not tell when an animal is going to just go off and yes you have to be aware of what is going on. My Highland was fine and I was petting her and her baby just before she tried to get me. Since she was across the pasture when she decided to attack the calf, and I was right there, she gave no indication she was going to do that either.

To say you are with your animals more then I am with mine is a bit far out as well since you don't know my situation either.

K.C.

RE: Re: Dehorning is against my religion

> Those people who like to keep the horns on animals don't deal with them on a daily basis or they too would

> disbud at a very early age.

Now wait just a minute! That is not true. I "deal with" them several times a day...probably more than you, K.C., because I'm around them enough to realize what "mood" of each of my animals are in, especially when they have young at their sides. I've been raised around livestock my entire live. And one of the most important things we were all taught at a very early age was that with a horned animal, you must always be aware of what's going on around you at all times...not just nonchalantly go waltzing into the pen while having your mind elsewhere. People have been kicked in the head and stomped by horses, too. But that doesn't mean we all need to cut their hooves off. I'm not telling anyone they are wrong for choosing to dehorn/disbud, as it's a personal preference. But I do resent the implication that I am wrong or "don't deal with them" , simply because I choose NOT to dehorn/disbud.

Shona

Goodridge Farms

South Central Missouri

PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/