Re: Vicki- Deb needs HELPPP (was weight regain/Deb)

[Guest guest]

Vicki,

Ok let me preface by saying he was REALLY, REALLY nice. I turned a 10

min surgery consult into 40 mins. Having said that....my hopes were a

bit crushed.

He said he was familiar with the DS/BPD, had looked into to performing

it himself, but the data shows that it carries alot more risks than the

RNY with really about the same weightloss results. {Mind you...not

agreeing with him...just repeating what he said and didn't want to

argue with the doc}. He felt that the DS was appropriate possibly in

just super obese patients (which I'm not...43-45 BMI here). He was

really nice and said that he would call me at home, where we could

spend 30 mins discussing the differences in more detail, and would even

refer me to Rabkin if that is what I was sure I wanted. He himself

feels that the surgery carries too many risks and doesn't result in

behavior changes and people can " cheat " too easily. {Though I have

learned from y'all that PROTEIN 100-150gms comes first}.

Needless to say, during this I was a balling baby(maybe I should get

tearduct surgery first lol)!!!! Showed him the comparision from Dr K's

site, and he told me I shouldn't believe everything I read on the

internet. That people here are gonna tout theirs as being the best

surgery. {Though I am lurking on band,ds & rny boards for a balanced

view and told him such}. Said that a little bit of knowledge can be

dangerous. But he pegged me right on....I want to make the PERFECT

choice and am overwhelmed with all the info.

After the consult, he had me talk with the next patient who was there

having her band filled. She has had really good results 6 mos out: 75

lbs lost, no tightness, no vomiting. Feeling terrific actually. Makes

the band sound great as she's on solids and eating everything, just in

mini portions.

So here I am....all confused again (

What's this fatty to do??

HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

Deb

>

>

>

> Hi Deb- its me. tell me tell me tell me!!!!!!!!!

>

> vicki

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/12/2004 8:11:26 PM Central Standard Time,

dsathome@... writes:

After the consult, he had me talk with the next patient who was there

having her band filled. She has had really good results 6 mos out: 75

lbs lost, no tightness, no vomiting. Feeling terrific actually. Makes

the band sound great as she's on solids and eating everything, just in

mini portions.

So here I am....all confused again (

What's this fatty to do??

HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

Deb

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----

Deb,

I don't know how long you have been reading, But I am on the long end of

3 seperate weight loss surgeries. I'm no little thing,at 230 ish after TT.

BUT I can help you with statistic and information. If you'd like to talk, I

have lots of weekend minutes and nothing to do this weekend. Email me your #

and we can chat about it. Also It might help to lurk on the revision boards a

few weeks and see how many people are rvising from a failed rny to a distal

RNY or ds/Bpd there are also a few bands who despite the surgery are still

gaining. While a lap band is newer and more common, I had the first bands that

were out. I can tell you exactly why you don't want a purely restrictive

proceedure. I can also explain to you why Dr. K says restriction doesn't work

and

why you don't want it. Someone who is saying they don't puke is lying or has

never stressed the band in any way. I ruined my teeth from years of vomiting

and slowly regained. BUT to me the banding is 100 times better than the RNY.

It does horrible things to your body and you can't eat. I have experienced

all three and hands down the DS is the best,easiest to live with, and least

traumatic to your system. I don't think my surgery is the best, I *KNOW* my

surgery is the best. 150 lbs is a lot of weight to lose. AND to top it off

because of my history, Dr. K only expected 100lbs loss. So it's performing even

better than he expected.

Some of my story can be found here....

_http://hometown.aol.com/mdl1031/ _ (http://hometown.aol.com/mdl1031/ )

If you want to talk, let me know. If you'd rather call me and not give

out your home number that is fine, I will send mine. I promise I'm no weirdo

(At least I think I'm not...LOL). Maybe my experience can help you.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/13/2004 1:21:28 AM Central Standard Time,

firecoupleinca@... writes:

(Mel....wanna share your story with Deb?)

----------------------------------------------------------------

I'm ahead of you Cindee!

Mel

_http://hometown.aol.com/mdl1031/ _ (http://hometown.aol.com/mdl1031/)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/13/2004 1:30:19 AM Central Standard Time,

firecoupleinca@... writes:

I completely disagree that " a little knowledge can be dangerous " That

is ridiculous! LACK of info is even more dangerous! Are you supposed

to blindly follow a Dr's advice without researching it? You NEED to

know all about each type of surgery, you need to know all the risks,

and you need to make an informed decision based on what YOU think is

best for you, not what one Dr who is obviously biased and against the

DS thinks is best for you.

_____________________________

Oh and Deb, I meant to tell you about lack of knowledge and how it affected

my body. The RNY started a whole chain of events that ended with me having

Severe anemia, I think it contributed to my developing fibromyalgia, I have had

2 compression spinal fractures from doing what a doc told me and not

researching. AND I was a nurse. I had B12 issues, which can lead to nerve

damage,

and lots of dumping. Speaking of dumping I was revisited by my old friend

today. Not in 2 years post op. I had flashbacks of horrors and vowed never to

drink sweet tea and eat carbs together. This is very rare in DS pts and touted

by RNY docs as a plus. If you ever felt it bad enough you'd know it IS NOT a

good thing! Besides I love steak too much to deal with severe restrictive

proceedures...LOL. And I eat my steak! (when it's on sale...LOL)

Mel

_http://hometown.aol.com/mdl1031/ _ (http://hometown.aol.com/mdl1031/)

[Guest guest]

Deb,

This story sounds like others I have heard. It sounds like the gal

with the band is an exception to the general rule of the band. The

info Vicki gave you on camparisons is more accurate. Some docs just

do not want to admit that the DS is superior because they do not do

it....and that means they lose business if they cannot talk you into

one of " their procedures " . Beware of those docs. I do not know where

you went, but would be careful. Keep reading all the boards, make the

decision right for you. I can tell I had the DS and I am not sorry at

all ! My stats are below.

Ginger <><

lap ds 7-15-03

down 160 pounds (woo hoo - half of atarting weight)

84.2% EWL

5' 3 "

sw/cw/goal~(healthy–dreaming/praying to lose a few more pounds)

320/160/???

56.7 / 28.3 (BMI pre-op / now)

> >

> > Hi Deb- its me. tell me tell me tell me!!!!!!!!!

> >

> > vicki

[Guest guest]

OHH Deb, I feel for you!

In my opinion that Doc was more than a bit clueless. Sounds to me

like he only performs the banding (and RNY possibly?) and of course

he wants you to have what HE performs, right? Since he doesn't do the

ds, it must not be " good enough " .....NOT TRUE!

You do NOT have to be super morbidly obese to have the ds!

I was 5 foot 5, 238 pounds, and had a BMI of 39.4. I was a size22/24

the day of surgery. I not only qualified easily for the DS, I was

blessed to have been very successful with my weight loss with few

complications other than some nasty nausea for the first month and

some esophageal spasms which are not common in others at all. This

surgery worked wonders for me, as well as MANY others here! It gave

me a life again! I am over 2 years out, have reached my goal, and

actually made myself gain a few pounds because I got too skinny for

my taste (and darn it, I lost 2 pounds since my appointment Tuesday!).

That Dr has his facts wrong. The weight loss results are NOT the

same, and the weight regain afterwards is much different. Yes, of

course there are risks with any surgery, but we are so blessed to

have Dr K (and Dr Z when he was performing surgery) who believe in

using that great " blue water " and watching for leaks immediately post-

op instead of waiting for you to come back sick and in severe pain.

Their aftercare and follow-up is unlike any I have seen with any

other surgeon...and their honesty as well as openness when it comes

to asking questions and comparing surgeries is amazing.

Bullcrap.....he is wrong when he says that this surgery does not

cause bahavior changes! Ask anyone here! We all had to relearn eating

habits! But one of the blessings of this surgery is that once we are

further out we CAN eat a more normal diet and our quality of life is

so much better than those who have had the RNY or banding. I know

MANY women who have had one or the other procedures and not only has

every one of them regained at the least 20 pounds, and for some up to

75 pounds....all are dieting again and none have ever been able to

eat the quality or the quantity of foods that the Ds post-ops can and

do. PLUS all of them have issues with vomiting and dumping syndrome

as well as the inability to digest many meats, etc......YUCK!

Yes, this surgery DOES cause us to change our behavior in many ways.

We do have to relearn our eating habits and we have such a better

quality of life as compared to an RNY patient. We can eat a much more

balanced and substantial meal!

Quite a few people here were revisions from other types of weight

loss surgery and they can tell you eactly what their experiences were

and why they ended up with the DS even after having one and sometimes

two OTHER procedures first!

(Mel....wanna share your story with Deb?)

It sounds to me like your Doc simply does not perform the DS, does

not have his facts straight on the DS, and wants to discourage you

from pursuing the DS. If you disagree with what he says and you

honestly believe that the DS is best for you, do not waste your time

trying to convert that Dr to a believer, it will never happen!

There are wonderful surgeons like Dr K who can, will,and do perform

the Ds and they will honestly share with you all the risks as well as

sharing their stats on average weight loss results, quality

of life after DS as compare to other WLS, and long term results as

well.

I completely disagree that " a little knowledge can be dangerous " That

is ridiculous! LACK of info is even more dangerous! Are you supposed

to blindly follow a Dr's advice without researching it? You NEED to

know all about each type of surgery, you need to know all the risks,

and you need to make an informed decision based on what YOU think is

best for you, not what one Dr who is obviously biased and against the

DS thinks is best for you.

You are in my thoughts and prayers! Dr's like that just make me go

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!! You deserve to have the best surgery available

to you! It sounds to me like you know much more about the DS than that

Dr is and that probably intimidated him, but please don't give up

and don't settle for less than what you want, need, and deserve!

Bless you, and remember, there are a couple of hundred post-op

patients here who will ALL agree that the DS was the best choice for

them and they can and will tell you WHY!

HUGS!

Cindee

> > >

> > > Hi Deb- its me. tell me tell me tell me!!!!!!!!!

> > >

> > > vicki

[Guest guest]

>Showed him the comparision from Dr K's

>site, and he told me I shouldn't believe everything I read on the

>internet. That people here are gonna tout theirs as being the best

>surgery. {Though I am lurking on band,ds & rny boards for a balanced

>view and told him such}. Said that a little bit of knowledge can be

>dangerous. But he pegged me right on....I want to make the PERFECT

>choice and am overwhelmed with all the info.

>After the consult, he had me talk with the next patient who was there

>having her band filled. She has had really good results 6 mos out: 75

>lbs lost, no tightness, no vomiting. Feeling terrific actually. Makes

>the band sound great as she's on solids and eating everything, just in

>mini portions.

>So here I am....all confused again (

>What's this fatty to do??

Deb,

Keep researching, and don't believe a doc who trash-talks another doctor.

If you ask Dr. K., he will give you an honest opinion and comparison of the

various procedures based on research not personal preferences. How much

research? Loads of it and he's right up there doing a lot of it. Right

now he's following a couple siblings, one with the RNY and one with the

GR-DS, that had their operations about three weeks apart. That will give

him a pretty good basis for a direct comparison of the two procedures. How

do I know this? I'm the DS side of the equation and my younger brother is

the RNY side. He wanted the DS but his insurance won't cover it because of

a stupid ruling by the state medical board back home. They don't approve

of the DS so the insurance companies hang their collective hats on that

decision to reject requests for the DS. My sister also had the RNY, about

a year before my DS. While she has had fairly good results, she still has

to watch every morsel she eats, has to chew it properly, and has had at

least three E/R visits directly related to RNY issues. At two years out,

she's also starting to have some weight gain even on the reduced food

intake and moderate exercise program she follows.

I chose the DS and fought to have it. When an unenlightened HMO refused to

approve the procedure, I switched insurance companies to one that would

cover it, I felt that strongly about my decision. I'm wanting to switch

back to the HMO but they aren't willing to cover any " complications "

directly related to an " unauthorized procedure " even though it has made a

tremendous change in my life. Even my former PCP at the HMO didn't

recognize me when I stopped by to visit him a month or so ago. He's so

impressed he's starting to fight the HMO brass to change their position on

the DS.

Bottom line.. YOU do your research. YOU make the decision which

procedure is best for you. YOU tell the doc which one you want to have.

And YOU fight for that procedure until you get it. YOU will have all of US

backing you 100%.

Jerry

[Guest guest]

Deb,

In reading your post, I think your surgeon sounds sincere in his

beliefs. I think the research he read is now out of date, however.

Dr.K is on the cutting edge of research on the DS. I think what we

all know here has possibly not even been published, it is so new.

It was presented at the Bariatric Surgery Conference last summer.

Your surgeon is probably concerned about protein malabsorption. The

calcium malabsorption is found in both the RNY and DS. Even

Dr.Baltazar (sp) from Spain when first studying the DS published a

study and concluded by saying he felt this was NOT a feasible

surgery. Now he is one of the respected pioneers of the DS! lol

Naturally he is performing the surgery he believes in. How can we

blame him for that? He wants to help patients in an ethical way.

As a physician, I saw patients who had complications from the RNY.

I never say any that were free of complications! lol That was the

nature of my job at the time, working Urgent Care. Since then I

have seen RNY patients who were doing very well. Two of them, I

think. lol One of them became my patient. Why? Because she was

left with NO FOLLOW-UP CARE!

I saw the patient who is considered a " star " patient by her surgeons

from San Diego. Turns out, she came to me because she had stomach

pain and couldn't sooth it by drinking antacids. lol I look at her

and said, huh? Can't you remember that your stomach

was " BYPASSED " ? Drink all the antacids you want, but it ain't going

in your stomach! lol She felt pretty sheepish. I gave her Pepcid.

We do tend to make changes in how we eat. I am eating like a

naturally thin person now. Unbreaded meats. Fresh fruits and

veggies. Whole grain breads. I take my vitamins, of course. If I

don't tell anyone, they can't guess by eating with me that I have

had a stomach reduction. I eat relatively normal amounts now that I

am more than 2 1/2 yrs out.

I do have to monitor my levels of calcium, etc, for the rest of my

life. That is compliance with requirements. Nothing more, nothing

less. Am I normal? No. Do I feel fantastic? YES!!! Is it

difficult to take calcium and a Centrum everyday? No. The rest is

a no-brainer.

Choose the life you want to lead then pick the surgery that will

bring you that life. Simple. I never considered the RNY for

myself, but that was my own choice. Maybe I would have regretted it

or changed my mind if I had never heard about the DS and stayed SMO

for years.

Marta

DS 4/3/2

BMI 50, now BMI 24

264/124

size 24/ size 4

[Guest guest]

> Bottom line.. YOU do your research. YOU make the decision which

> procedure is best for you. YOU tell the doc which one you want to

have.

> And YOU fight for that procedure until you get it. YOU will have

all of US

> backing you 100%.

>

> Jerry

Don't lie, Jerry. YOu know damn well Mel won't support *anyone* if

they choose the RNY! lol

ALso, Jerry, I don't think it is fair to say her surgeon was trash-

talking Dr.K and I know you are a fair man. He was trash-talking

the DS procedure, but I think he was using old research. I read

everything I could get my hands on. I did NOT use online patient

support groups as part of my research, I ONLY used medical

literature. You guys might remember I was totally alone, didn't

know a single DS patient until Jo adopted me. Thank you, Jo!

Marta

[Guest guest]

http://www.growley.com/mywls/appeal/research-appeal.html

Deb... please look at the research that I have on my weight loss surgery

page at the above link. I think you will see that medical research shows

that the DS is by far the superior surgery. Wherever you see a name

underlined, you can go to at least a summary of that researcher's findings.

Elle

Re: Vicki- Deb needs HELPPP (was weight

regain/Deb)

Vicki,

Ok let me preface by saying he was REALLY, REALLY nice. I turned a 10

min surgery consult into 40 mins. Having said that....my hopes were a

bit crushed.

He said he was familiar with the DS/BPD, had looked into to performing

it himself, but the data shows that it carries alot more risks than the

RNY with really about the same weightloss results.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/13/2004 7:26:36 AM Central Standard Time,

mjs93311@... writes:

I think what we

all know here has possibly not even been published, it is so new.

It was presented at the Bariatric Surgery Conference last summer.

__________________________________

And there is even newer published works in the near future. Dr. K's office

contacted me for my latest stats a few months ago related to revisions and

another one about the reasons why the RNY fails. Thats what I understood

anyway.

Mel

_http://hometown.aol.com/mdl1031/ _ (http://hometown.aol.com/mdl1031/)

[Guest guest]

Now why didn't I know there would be an outporing of support? I've already

learned in my short week on this site that you all are just unbelievable human

beings!!!!!!!!!!!!

My eyes are welled up with tears right now from readingyour words of support.

I have to get to my exercise, a soccer game and a birthday lunch, but I WILL be

back here later to talk more about everything you have said. From the bottom of

my heart, THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.

Hugs,

Deb

" Marta S. " wrote:

> Bottom line.. YOU do your research. YOU make the decision which

> procedure is best for you. YOU tell the doc which one you want to

have.

> And YOU fight for that procedure until you get it. YOU will have

all of US

> backing you 100%.

>

> Jerry

Don't lie, Jerry. YOu know damn well Mel won't support *anyone* if

they choose the RNY! lol

ALso, Jerry, I don't think it is fair to say her surgeon was trash-

talking Dr.K and I know you are a fair man. He was trash-talking

the DS procedure, but I think he was using old research. I read

everything I could get my hands on. I did NOT use online patient

support groups as part of my research, I ONLY used medical

literature. You guys might remember I was totally alone, didn't

know a single DS patient until Jo adopted me. Thank you, Jo!

Marta

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/13/2004 5:19:14 PM Central Standard Time,

sujerlam@... writes:

Then I found out they

signed an exclusivity contract with a WLS group that only does the RNY,

they get a super-cheap rate, so they'll say anything to discourage any of

their patients even looking at anything other than the RNY

__________________________________________

Jerry,

Dr. Booth told me the reason the insurance companies didn't want the DS

to become more common was that the DS was more expensive long term. The docs

require the nutritional followups that should be performed with the RNY, but

isn't commonly. Add to that an additional 5-7 thousand for the surgery, and

it's all about finances and not pt health. Also a RNY doc can turn out 4 or 5

surgeries a day where a ds doc usually schedules 2 a day 3 max. (more time

consuming)So it boils down to high profits for the doc also.

Mel

_http://hometown.aol.com/mdl1031/ _ (http://hometown.aol.com/mdl1031/)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/13/2004 7:32:13 AM Central Standard Time,

mjs93311@... writes:

Don't lie, Jerry. YOu know damn well Mel won't support *anyone* if

they choose the RNY! lol

____________________________________________________-

Damn skippy Marta,

But anyone who lived through what I did and has had the same increase in

quality of life I had after getting rid of the RNY that I did would argue

that it was concieved in hell. As punishment for the poor fat person who can't

control her self....LOL.

Speaking of the RNY. I had a flash back and a horrible sense of Deja vu.

Tom wanted to eat lunch, so we thought fast and cheap because we had to go

take care of some business. So it came down to pizza hut buffet. I NEVER drink

sweet tea and did that day because the diet pepsi tasted nasty. I don't know

if it was the sweet and carbs, But I got weak and shakey and my heart was

racing. And I got so sleepy that I fell asleep in the car. Haven't done that in

2 whole years since the ds revision. Made me appreciate where I came from.

Imagine a life where you do that after every meal 3 times a day on average to

different degrees depending on what you ate. I have sipped sweet tea

occasionally when there was no diet coke as an option and not had this so I

assume it

was the high carb lunch(Pizza and pasta) combined with the sweet tea. So

your way right that I will never say the ds is inferior, I would support the

person in thier decision BUT not the proceedure.

Mel

_http://hometown.aol.com/mdl1031/ _ (http://hometown.aol.com/mdl1031/)

[Guest guest]

>ALso, Jerry, I don't think it is fair to say her surgeon was trash-

>talking Dr.K and I know you are a fair man. He was trash-talking

>the DS procedure, but I think he was using old research.

Marta,

Sorry I didn't make that clearer. That's exactly what I meant,

trash-talking the DS procedure in general, not a specific doctor. The same

attitude I ran in to at Kaiser a couple years back. Then I found out they

signed an exclusivity contract with a WLS group that only does the RNY,

they get a super-cheap rate, so they'll say anything to discourage any of

their patients even looking at anything other than the RNY.

Jerry

[Guest guest]

Hi Deb!

If it helps, I'll add my stats to Ginger's:

Surgery 11/12/01

Pre-op Weight: 318

Current weight: 185

Before surgery I had asthma, edema, and could barely walk due to

arthritis aggravated by my weight. The asthma and edema have

disappeared and I walk an average of 1-2 miles everyday without

pain.

Do I eat what I want? You BET I do! It's one of the reasons I chose

this surgery. But, I eat my protein first and lately I've been

really good about avoiding sugar because I'd like to lose a little

more weight. But, if it doesn't happen, I am a SUCCESS! I have my

life and my health back.

I definitely recommend this surgery!

Tracey

>

> Deb,

> This story sounds like others I have heard. It sounds like the gal

> with the band is an exception to the general rule of the band. The

> info Vicki gave you on camparisons is more accurate. Some docs just

> do not want to admit that the DS is superior because they do not do

> it....and that means they lose business if they cannot talk you

into

> one of " their procedures " . Beware of those docs. I do not know

where

> you went, but would be careful. Keep reading all the boards, make

the

> decision right for you. I can tell I had the DS and I am not sorry

at

> all ! My stats are below.

> Ginger <><

> lap ds 7-15-03

> down 160 pounds (woo hoo - half of atarting weight)

> 84.2% EWL

> 5' 3 "

> sw/cw/goal~(healthy–dreaming/praying to lose a few more pounds)

> 320/160/???

> 56.7 / 28.3 (BMI pre-op / now)

>

>