Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 There is no actual scientific evidence to support these ideas on freezing by Aajonus. This has been debated on the live foods group. Vinny Pinto, the group owner is a scientist, and he says that Aajanous's claims in this area have no scientific substance. I am not discrediting Aajanous, but I would like to say he has quite a history amongst many who actually know him, of being a little *off*, and I have heard true stories of some very odd things in regards to him. He is an extremist, and I would take a lot of what he has to say with a grain of salt. I myself follow much of the same diet he does, and I am not by any means saying he does not have a lot of good advise, I am merely saying to question what *anyone* tells you before making a concrete decision about anything. I try to do a lot of research before I believe any one person on any subject. There is way too much information out there that may be good intentioned, but just is not true. I can pile through a stack of health books, and find massive discrepancies in every one. Ignorance is common, even amongst the educated, and we just have to be well informed when making personal decisions, as informed as we possibly can. I have read quite a few papers on freezing, and they all seem to say that freezing up to 3 months will not damage your food. Kefir grains for example can be frozen this long, and used upon defrosting, this is in my opinion is pretty indicative of freezing not harming the food. Aajanous claims that freezing bursts the cell walls of the food, but this is redundant. Freezing contracts food, heat expands. Expansion causes bursting, not contraction. I hope I have not offended anyone in reference to Aajanous, but I felt it was best to say something. Blessings, -Angel Kirkland Washington Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 No offense taken... I actually based it off of my own testing, but since I don't have any " schooling " in the area, I am not used to being listened to... so I always try to cite " bigger " sources of information. And my own testing is a lot of gut instinct, combined with a whole lot of common sense, and a touch of intelligence thrown in! lol > >Reply-To: RawDairy >To: <RawDairy > >Subject: Re: freezing >Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:46:53 -0700 > >There is no actual scientific evidence to support these ideas on freezing >by >Aajonus. This has been debated on the live foods group. Vinny Pinto, the >group owner is a scientist, and he says that Aajanous's claims in this area >have no scientific substance. I am not discrediting Aajanous, but I would >like to say he has quite a history amongst many who actually know him, of >being a little *off*, and I have heard true stories of some very odd things >in regards to him. He is an extremist, and I would take a lot of what he >has >to say with a grain of salt. I myself follow much of the same diet he does, >and I am not by any means saying he does not have a lot of good advise, I >am >merely saying to question what *anyone* tells you before making a concrete >decision about anything. I try to do a lot of research before I believe any >one person on any subject. There is way too much information out there that >may be good intentioned, but just is not true. I can pile through a stack >of >health books, and find massive discrepancies in every one. Ignorance is >common, even amongst the educated, and we just have to be well informed >when >making personal decisions, as informed as we possibly can. I have read >quite >a few papers on freezing, and they all seem to say that freezing up to 3 >months will not damage your food. Kefir grains for example can be frozen >this long, and used upon defrosting, this is in my opinion is pretty >indicative of freezing not harming the food. Aajanous claims that freezing >bursts the cell walls of the food, but this is redundant. Freezing >contracts >food, heat expands. Expansion causes bursting, not contraction. I hope I >have not offended anyone in reference to Aajanous, but I felt it was best >to >say something. >Blessings, >-Angel >Kirkland Washington > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Freezing can actually cause extensive damage to cells. The ice crystals that form from water in the cells act like millions of tiny swords and can shred the cells. But all cells get shredded when we chew and digest our food anyway, so I doubt that makes any difference. Wouldn't the question be how do individual nutrients survive after freezing? The answer to this would be different for each nutrient you looked at. Some enzymes degrade if you so much as look at them cross-eyed while others can only be destroyed following extreme measures. Jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 there is no way one can buy good grassfed beef without freezing it. I have thought about that. At this point I rather eat frozen grassfed than Winn Dixie's fresh meat. Rhoda PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Totally cool . In truth, the web is my favorite source of schooling when it comes to getting answers swiftly. I go to one of the main search engines, such as google, and type in whatever I am wanting evidence on, and just start piling through whatever I find. I look to the source of whatever information to determine what prejudice is affecting the source(all sources are based on prejudice, you just have to back up or disprove what they are saying). Of course instinct is very important, and I think you are very well in listening to your inner self. I myself recently have done a lot of things out of instinct, and later I found evidence to support my feelings. It would take quite a large leap of faith for me to get rid of my freezer though, I really do not know what I would do without it. I guess since canning is out of the question, and dehydrating at low temps is long and tedious for large amounts of food, I have wondered how to stock up otherwise in case of an emergency. I know that freezed goods will not last long if there is a power outage, but what does one do for food storage otherwise? If I had a root cellar, it would probably be easier I suppose. What do you think about this? This has been an issue very much on my mind, for I feel we all may need food storage in times to come. Blessings, -AngelKirkland Washington No offense taken... I actually based it off of my own testing, but since I don't have any "schooling" in the area, I am not used to being listened to... so I always try to cite "bigger" sources of information. And my own testing is a lot of gut instinct, combined with a whole lot of common sense, and a touch of intelligence thrown in! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 You can actually soak it in raw milk, kefir, or EM for quite a length of time, and keep it fresh. I do this quite often with EM. I like the basic flavor though, so I most often just freeze it. You are right though, natural meats have a real short life span. Blessings -AngelKirkland Washington there is no way one can buy good grassfed beef without freezing it. I have thought about that. At this point I rather eat frozen grassfed than Winn Dixie's fresh meat. Rhoda PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Has anyone else tried vacumm packing? I use my food saver, and my natural meat keeps fresher than conventional meat in the fridge that way... it stays good for 3 - 4 weeks ( after that we have always eaten it! It might last longer!) >You can actually soak it in raw milk, kefir, or EM for quite a length of >time, and keep it fresh. I do this quite often with EM. I like the basic >flavor though, so I most often just freeze it. You are right though, >natural meats have a real short life span. > there is no way one can buy good grassfed beef without freezing it. I >have thought about that. At this point I rather eat frozen grassfed than >Winn Dixie's fresh meat. _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Has anyone else tried vacumm packing? I use my food saver, and my natural meat keeps fresher than conventional meat in the fridge that way... it stays good for 3 - 4 weeks ( after that we have always eaten it! It might last longer!) >You can actually soak it in raw milk, kefir, or EM for quite a length of >time, and keep it fresh. I do this quite often with EM. I like the basic >flavor though, so I most often just freeze it. You are right though, >natural meats have a real short life span. > there is no way one can buy good grassfed beef without freezing it. I >have thought about that. At this point I rather eat frozen grassfed than >Winn Dixie's fresh meat. _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 At 01:09 PM 10/22/04 -0700, you wrote: >You can actually soak it in raw milk, kefir, or EM for quite a length of time, and keep it fresh. I do this quite often with EM. I like the basic flavor though, so I most often just freeze it. You are right though, natural meats have a real short life span. Actually, I assumed Rhoda was referring to the same situation that is quite common around here - when you buy a side of beef or whatever, it's delivered already frozen. That's just the way the process works, apparently. Not that I mind that. I'm not buying into the " freezing is bad " theory either. MFJ I just don't like it when you lump me in with everyone else in the world. Because just like everyone else in the world, I wanna be speshul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 At 01:09 PM 10/22/04 -0700, you wrote: >You can actually soak it in raw milk, kefir, or EM for quite a length of time, and keep it fresh. I do this quite often with EM. I like the basic flavor though, so I most often just freeze it. You are right though, natural meats have a real short life span. Actually, I assumed Rhoda was referring to the same situation that is quite common around here - when you buy a side of beef or whatever, it's delivered already frozen. That's just the way the process works, apparently. Not that I mind that. I'm not buying into the " freezing is bad " theory either. MFJ I just don't like it when you lump me in with everyone else in the world. Because just like everyone else in the world, I wanna be speshul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 I would second this opinion. And actually, the best example that freezing is not a harmful thing to food is the Eskimo peoples, like the Inuet. They froze a lot of the meats they ate, for obvious reasons. When they were ready for more, they would go out to the outside igloo and get a big frozen chunk fish or caribou meat out and slice it up. They were some of the healthiest peoples on earth until they adopted a western diet, and succumbed to a myriad of illnesses such as alcoholism, diabetes,etc. They also fermented caribou to achieve some of the same beneficial efffects that we get today from probiotic foods such as yogurt, kefir, kiimchi and sauerkraut. And they had no recorded cardiovascular disease and ironically, their diet consisted of 99.9% meats and saturated fats, including whale milk and seal blubber. The difference was that they ate it raw. Very interesting...so yes, I concur with this, that freezing is not a bad thing at all. I hate it that Aajanous has propagated this rumor, as he has so many other good things to say. It can be really very discouraging to people because who has time to slaughter a calf every day or even make a trip to the store every single day? Certainly not me, with my homeschooling and busy life. D. On Oct 22, 2004, at 2:42 PM, RawDairy wrote: > > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:46:53 -0700 > > Subject: Re: freezing > > There is no actual scientific evidence to support these ideas on > freezing by > Aajonus. This has been debated on the live foods group. Vinny Pinto, > the > group owner is a scientist, and he says that Aajanous's claims in this > area > have no scientific substance. I am not discrediting Aajanous, but I > would > like to say he has quite a history amongst many who actually know him, > of > being a little *off*, and I have heard true stories of some very odd > things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 I would second this opinion. And actually, the best example that freezing is not a harmful thing to food is the Eskimo peoples, like the Inuet. They froze a lot of the meats they ate, for obvious reasons. When they were ready for more, they would go out to the outside igloo and get a big frozen chunk fish or caribou meat out and slice it up. They were some of the healthiest peoples on earth until they adopted a western diet, and succumbed to a myriad of illnesses such as alcoholism, diabetes,etc. They also fermented caribou to achieve some of the same beneficial efffects that we get today from probiotic foods such as yogurt, kefir, kiimchi and sauerkraut. And they had no recorded cardiovascular disease and ironically, their diet consisted of 99.9% meats and saturated fats, including whale milk and seal blubber. The difference was that they ate it raw. Very interesting...so yes, I concur with this, that freezing is not a bad thing at all. I hate it that Aajanous has propagated this rumor, as he has so many other good things to say. It can be really very discouraging to people because who has time to slaughter a calf every day or even make a trip to the store every single day? Certainly not me, with my homeschooling and busy life. D. On Oct 22, 2004, at 2:42 PM, RawDairy wrote: > > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:46:53 -0700 > > Subject: Re: freezing > > There is no actual scientific evidence to support these ideas on > freezing by > Aajonus. This has been debated on the live foods group. Vinny Pinto, > the > group owner is a scientist, and he says that Aajanous's claims in this > area > have no scientific substance. I am not discrediting Aajanous, but I > would > like to say he has quite a history amongst many who actually know him, > of > being a little *off*, and I have heard true stories of some very odd > things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 I've been feeling the same thing... that's why I would rather be on a farm! Food storage... I've been theorizing a few things... haven't had time to research them yet... I've been concentrating on getting out of Idaho... and trying to figure out where to go ... the kids, the cats, and I are all breaking out in open lesions now, and I can't find any quality food here. (We have determined that it is a direct " detox " of all the pesticides on everything including our food.) Anyways, food storage... how did the pioneers keep their meat? I believe smoking was their method... they certainly didn't have freezers. What about the Indians...the Plains Indians migrated with the buffalo, but how did they keep the animal that they killed? They are not known for wasting anything... and I don't recall ever reading or hearing anything about them killing one every day! Maybe they killed one a week, and had enough people in the tribe to consume it all in one week. So that is always a possibility... form a small community to consume all of the slaughtered animal before it goes bad. I have also heard about using the raw milk before... have you tried UNHEATED honey (different from raw honey - not heated above 93 degrees artificially), I think I remember hearing that unheated honey would help preserve... or maybe a combination of things. Let me know if I spark anything! And as for a large leap of faith to get rid of the freezer... food is a very important issue for me... if I don't eat properly, I would wither away and a strong wind would be my end! My body doesn't asorb nutrients that have been altered or synthetically produced (that was what the conventional doctor told me, and what stemmed my decision to look into alternative medicine!) So, when we took out all grains from the diet, I lost 2 inches, but not a pound...I, unfortunately , did not gain any weight either (105 lbs.)... but when I stopped eating cooked food, and started eating raw fresh produce, I have been a little hungry while I look for food sources for dairy and meat, but I have put on 7 lbs in the first 2 weeks, and have kept it on for 6 weeks now! Yeah! I'm thrilled... so if throwing out my freezer will " cure my ails " and get me to a point where I feel healthy (doctors have always said that I am " healthy as a horse " no matter what problems I am having), there is no leap at all. (And it's another one of those run on sentences that my mother would be mortified at! lol) _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 I've been feeling the same thing... that's why I would rather be on a farm! Food storage... I've been theorizing a few things... haven't had time to research them yet... I've been concentrating on getting out of Idaho... and trying to figure out where to go ... the kids, the cats, and I are all breaking out in open lesions now, and I can't find any quality food here. (We have determined that it is a direct " detox " of all the pesticides on everything including our food.) Anyways, food storage... how did the pioneers keep their meat? I believe smoking was their method... they certainly didn't have freezers. What about the Indians...the Plains Indians migrated with the buffalo, but how did they keep the animal that they killed? They are not known for wasting anything... and I don't recall ever reading or hearing anything about them killing one every day! Maybe they killed one a week, and had enough people in the tribe to consume it all in one week. So that is always a possibility... form a small community to consume all of the slaughtered animal before it goes bad. I have also heard about using the raw milk before... have you tried UNHEATED honey (different from raw honey - not heated above 93 degrees artificially), I think I remember hearing that unheated honey would help preserve... or maybe a combination of things. Let me know if I spark anything! And as for a large leap of faith to get rid of the freezer... food is a very important issue for me... if I don't eat properly, I would wither away and a strong wind would be my end! My body doesn't asorb nutrients that have been altered or synthetically produced (that was what the conventional doctor told me, and what stemmed my decision to look into alternative medicine!) So, when we took out all grains from the diet, I lost 2 inches, but not a pound...I, unfortunately , did not gain any weight either (105 lbs.)... but when I stopped eating cooked food, and started eating raw fresh produce, I have been a little hungry while I look for food sources for dairy and meat, but I have put on 7 lbs in the first 2 weeks, and have kept it on for 6 weeks now! Yeah! I'm thrilled... so if throwing out my freezer will " cure my ails " and get me to a point where I feel healthy (doctors have always said that I am " healthy as a horse " no matter what problems I am having), there is no leap at all. (And it's another one of those run on sentences that my mother would be mortified at! lol) _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Jill, I think that WHEN the cells get shredded would be an issue simple because as soon as they are shredded they are oxidized, which cause a lot of damage. >Freezing can actually cause extensive damage to cells. The ice >crystals that form from water in the cells act like millions of tiny >swords and can shred the cells. But all cells get shredded when we >chew and digest our food anyway, so I doubt that makes any difference. >Jill _________________________________________________________________ Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Jill, I think that WHEN the cells get shredded would be an issue simple because as soon as they are shredded they are oxidized, which cause a lot of damage. >Freezing can actually cause extensive damage to cells. The ice >crystals that form from water in the cells act like millions of tiny >swords and can shred the cells. But all cells get shredded when we >chew and digest our food anyway, so I doubt that makes any difference. >Jill _________________________________________________________________ Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 The Native Americans dried their meats by smoking them over open fires. Unfortunately smoke has a lot of toxins, and isn't a healthy alternative. Blessings, -AngelKirkland Washington I've been feeling the same thing... that's why I would rather be on a farm! Food storage... I've been theorizing a few things... haven't had time to research them yet... I've been concentrating on getting out of Idaho... and trying to figure out where to go ... the kids, the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 , I agree...and I homeschool too! Have done so since mine were born, except for a couple years in their teens which I truly regret. It was their choice, but it really changed them a lot! No great deed was done through force. Blessings, -AngelKirkland Washington I would second this opinion. And actually, the best example that freezing is not a harmful thing to food is the Eskimo peoples, like the Inuet. They froze a lot of the meats they ate, for obvious reasons. When they were ready for more, they would go out to the outside igloo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 , I agree...and I homeschool too! Have done so since mine were born, except for a couple years in their teens which I truly regret. It was their choice, but it really changed them a lot! No great deed was done through force. Blessings, -AngelKirkland Washington I would second this opinion. And actually, the best example that freezing is not a harmful thing to food is the Eskimo peoples, like the Inuet. They froze a lot of the meats they ate, for obvious reasons. When they were ready for more, they would go out to the outside igloo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Given that thinking I would have a tendency to agree... but they also have a different thinking on when meat goes bad... they eat " high meat " , or meat that has progressed to various stages of decay (or fermenting) in order to consume those helpful bacterias and replenish their systems! And I think that the amount of fats consumed is also a fact to note... maybe the extra fat protects them in ways we haven't even thought of yet. >the best example that >freezing is not a harmful thing to food is the Eskimo peoples, like the >Inuet. They froze a lot of the meats they ate, for obvious reasons. >When they were ready for more, they would go out to the outside igloo >and get a big frozen chunk fish or caribou meat out and slice it up. >They were some of the healthiest peoples on earth until they adopted a >western diet, and succumbed to a myriad of illnesses such as >alcoholism, diabetes,etc. They also fermented caribou to achieve some >of the same beneficial efffects that we get today from probiotic foods >such as yogurt, kefir, kiimchi and sauerkraut. And they had no >recorded cardiovascular disease and ironically, their diet consisted of >99.9% meats and saturated fats, including whale milk and seal blubber. >The difference was that they ate it raw. > And here I have to concur as another homeschooler with small ones too... I don't have time for anything extra... and I only get to the stores once a week or so.... the food saver has been working wonderfully for so many other things, maybe we will try vaccuum sealing meat and then putting it in the freezer....hmmmmm. The current food save experiment is with peaches in mason jars... Both the ones in the fridge, and the ones on the shelf are staying fresh... going on 6 weeks! > It can be really very >discouraging to people because who has time to slaughter a calf every >day or even make a trip to the store every single day? Certainly not >me, with my homeschooling and busy life. > D. > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 In a message dated 10/22/04 1:55:03 PM Central Daylight Time, lucidangel@... writes: << There is no actual scientific evidence to support these ideas on freezing by Aajonus. This has been debated on the live foods group. Vinny Pinto, the group owner is a scientist, and he says that Aajanous's claims in this area have no scientific substance. Hi Angel, Wow- Sometimes it gets a little overwhelming with all the info, etc. I am glad you shared that. Guess we just do the best we can do. We bought a quarter beef and with just the two of us it will take us awhile to go through it. But I would think it would still be better to eat this raw than what I have done all these years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 In a message dated 10/22/04 1:55:03 PM Central Daylight Time, lucidangel@... writes: << There is no actual scientific evidence to support these ideas on freezing by Aajonus. This has been debated on the live foods group. Vinny Pinto, the group owner is a scientist, and he says that Aajanous's claims in this area have no scientific substance. Hi Angel, Wow- Sometimes it gets a little overwhelming with all the info, etc. I am glad you shared that. Guess we just do the best we can do. We bought a quarter beef and with just the two of us it will take us awhile to go through it. But I would think it would still be better to eat this raw than what I have done all these years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 > > >bursts the cell walls of the food, but this is > >redundant. Freezing > >contracts > >food, heat expands. Expansion causes bursting, not > >contraction. I hope > > > Actually, the problem with living things is that > they all contain water, and water expands (initially) > as it freezes. This is the miracle that allows life > to continue--the ice forms at the top of the lake > since ice is less dense than water, thus leaving > liquid > water available for fishies and whatever. > > This ice-expansion causes cells to burst, which is > why berries and so forth are always mushy after being > frozen and thawed. I think its possible to avoid some > of this if an item is frozen under specific > conditions (either very fast or very slow) but I > can't recall the specifics. > > /andrea Course, I burst the cell walls pretty well, also, when I chew the berries. No harm done except to the berry. HA! D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 Fast freezing forms smaller ice crystals, slow freezing creates big ice crystals, so fast freezing causes less damage to the internal structure of the food. --Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 The difference being when the cells were oxidized...in the freezer (or while thawing), or in your mouth (or while chewing)... so the question becomes would you rather eat oxidized cells, or oxidize the cells you are eating? > > Actually, the problem with living things is that > > they all contain water, and water expands (initially) > > as it freezes. This is the miracle that allows life > > to continue--the ice forms at the top of the lake > > since ice is less dense than water, thus leaving > > liquid > > water available for fishies and whatever. > > > > This ice-expansion causes cells to burst, which is > > why berries and so forth are always mushy after being > > frozen and thawed. > >Course, I burst the cell walls pretty well, also, when I chew the berries. >No harm done >except to the berry. HA! > D. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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