Re: Frans Bosch - Isometrics?

[Guest guest]

I read the Bosch/Klomp book, and recently received the re-release of their

DVD through Gambetta Sports. Although both contain some excellent anatomy and

references to classical locomotion studies (like 's insights on

foot elasticity), I believe their analysis of running technique, as well as

some of their views on reactivity, pre-tension, and the notion of muscle slack

are speculative at best, and several key concepts such as the " whip from the

hip " do not appear to be research-based.

Nevertheless, since Frans was presenting less than an hour from me, I

thought it was a great opportunity to talk to the author before continuing to

talk

about him. I know my persepctive. I needed to know his. Basically, Frans

believes that muscles can 'work' as either elastic bands or pumps

(shortening), and that not all muscles have the same properties. For example,

he sees

the glutes as more suited to concentric work, and the hamstrings more suited to

eccentric work.

The way he works the hamstrings involves some rather unique protocols, such

as the athlete kneeling in the sand, bending forward almost head first,

extending out to an almost torso flat position, and then lifting himself back up

to vertical. Another athlete is holding his feet during these movements. He

also advocates some variations of extension work from a glute-ham type

apparatus.

Ken Jakalski

Lisle High School

Lisle, IL

[Guest guest]

The Nordic leg curl you describe is at least a century old-exercise, a

simple eccentric-component partner exercise, cheap and simple as it is.

Not really a revelation (I hope!) or something to get really excited about.

Yes, there is a strong eccentric component in one exercise, does that make

you run faster or how does this fit into the global concept, since a lot

of people have been doing this exercise since ages.

The velocity of knee flexion in this way is a lot slower than while

running 12 meter per second anyway and while running both hamstrings do

not contract simultanuously.

Help me out, because I just can't see Bosch and Klomp saying everybody

else has been doing things wrong all the time, while coming up with some

" new " exercises? In other words: where are the superior results?

The whole system has been abandoned quickly in Holland since the only ones

benefiting from this concept were surgeons and physios.

Please say hello to Frans, he is a great painter!

Henk Kraaijenhof

Amstelveen

Holland

I read the Bosch/Klomp book, and recently received the re-release of their

> DVD through Gambetta Sports. Although both contain some excellent anatomy

> and

> references to classical locomotion studies (like 's insights on

> foot elasticity), I believe their analysis of running technique, as well

> as

> some of their views on reactivity, pre-tension, and the notion of muscle

> slack

> are speculative at best, and several key concepts such as the " whip from

> the

> hip " do not appear to be research-based.

>

> Nevertheless, since Frans was presenting less than an hour from me, I

> thought it was a great opportunity to talk to the author before

> continuing to talk

> about him. I know my persepctive. I needed to know his. Basically,

> Frans

> believes that muscles can 'work' as either elastic bands or pumps

> (shortening), and that not all muscles have the same properties. For

> example, he sees

> the glutes as more suited to concentric work, and the hamstrings more

> suited to

> eccentric work.

>

> The way he works the hamstrings involves some rather unique protocols,

> such

> as the athlete kneeling in the sand, bending forward almost head first,

> extending out to an almost torso flat position, and then lifting himself

> back up

> to vertical. Another athlete is holding his feet during these movements.

> He

> also advocates some variations of extension work from a glute-ham type

> apparatus.

>

> Ken Jakalski

> Lisle High School

> Lisle, IL

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Henk!

Frans mentioned that he has always enjoyed your company, and simply smiled

when I mentioned eccentric work as " old wine in new bottles. "

Nothing in his presentations said anything about others doing things wrong

in the past. At best, he simply presented both approaches and referred to one

as 'old school' and the other as 'new school.'

He also highlighted the following points before his first presentation on

basic motor properties. These points of emphasis inidcate that he was not

introducing his approach as the definitive answer to the training puzzle:

1.Science applied in generic models

2.No strict rules about form, but building blocks from anatomy and

biomechanics

3.No coach-replacing concepts, just tools

4.No ready-to-serve years round training plan--individualizing is key

5.No Holy Grail of running--always a complex process

I knew he was a medical illustrator, and the images in his book and in is

PowerPoint presentations do reveal artistic talent as well as technical skill.

Ken Jakalski

Lisle High School

Lisle, IL

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/3/2007 3:07:12 AM Central Daylight Time,

kitesurfer257@... writes:

Is there any equipment involved in the statics that Frans recommends? What

does he recommend for the duration of each static contraction? How many reps,

sets, etc? Does he advocate doing these in various positions through the

range of motion? What is his rationale for his recommendation? For example,

does

he have any evidence that this works?

Hi Ed!

Bosch's slides on hamstring work were contained in his fourth presentation

on the change in training for pole vaulter Rens Blom after 2003.

He did not give any detailed specifics regarding reps, sets, etc. I believe

this is all relative to the feedback from the athlete. For example, he notes

that there are no laws for recovery after training load. How much recovery

is needed differs between atheltes and depends on many factors inside and

outside training sessions.

Regarding the success of the program:

Rens himself believed a change from the classic Eastern German strength

training he was doing prior to 2003 was necessary, and after his switch to

coordination-based strength training he improved in the vault.

The negative effects of his more 'classic' strength training were:

1) hypertrophy, 2) exhausting strength sessions and ba recovery, 3)

inability to jumpr from longer run ups during the first two periods of his

training,

and 4) feeling of limited transfer of strength training to running and jumping

The hamstring work was an attempt to give Rens more pole vault specific

strength and speed. The training was based on improving inter and intra

muscular

coordination.

The single leg hamstring work from an extension chair involved a bar and

extended arms.

Hamstring work done in this manner was only part of his change in training.

He also did what was called a 5-5-5-5 squat: 5 reps slow with permanent

tension, 5 reps fast, no full extension and with a plyometric change of

direction at the lowest point, 5 reps explosive with full extension, and 5 reps

slow

with permanent tension. The load was up to 85% with a 4 series max.

Rens also did single leg hack squats against the wall with a weight bar. He

also did other protocols that more closely resembled the demands of the

actual event.

Regarding the hamstring work:

Bosch believes that the functional hamstring wants to stop knee extension

and wants to assist hip extension. That explains why he works the hamstrings

in this manner.

His conclusion relative to Blom's training:

Conditioning and technique integrated in strength training results in less

training stress and

better results in basic running and jumping.

Long term planning is less important than short term adjustments

Finding transfer for the individual athlete is the key

Jumping with competition technique is necessary and other training should

not hinder it.

Ken Jakalski

Lisle HS

Lisle, Illinois

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

Please remember that Rens Blom jumped 5.75 in 2000 then 5.81 under

Bosch. His main improvements were in consistency. Also Rens Blom's

" East German " strength training wasn't what we supertrainers would

call good. What would his improvements have been had he simply

switched to a more " modern " strength program?

2000-2001

1/2 squat 4x12

hip flexors 4x12

calf raises 4x12

leg ext 4x12

leg curl 4x12

seated single leg calf raise 4x10

adductor 4x10

abductor 4x10

then stuff like:

back extension machine, ab machine, bicep curls, tricep machine

Mort

State College, PA

> Hi Ed!

>

> Bosch's slides on hamstring work were contained in his fourth

presentation

> on the change in training for pole vaulter Rens Blom after 2003.

>

> He did not give any detailed specifics regarding reps, sets, etc. I

believe

> this is all relative to the feedback from the athlete. For example,

he notes

> that there are no laws for recovery after training load. How much

recovery

> is needed differs between atheltes and depends on many factors

inside and

> outside training sessions.

>

> Regarding the success of the program:

>

> Rens himself believed a change from the classic Eastern German

strength

> training he was doing prior to 2003 was necessary, and after his

switch to

> coordination-based strength training he improved in the vault.

>

> The negative effects of his more 'classic' strength training were:

> 1) hypertrophy, 2) exhausting strength sessions and ba recovery, 3)

> inability to jumpr from longer run ups during the first two periods

of his training,

> and 4) feeling of limited transfer of strength training to running

and jumping

>

> The hamstring work was an attempt to give Rens more pole vault

specific

> strength and speed. The training was based on improving inter and

intra muscular

> coordination.

>

> The single leg hamstring work from an extension chair involved a bar

and

> extended arms.

>

> Hamstring work done in this manner was only part of his change in

training.

> He also did what was called a 5-5-5-5 squat: 5 reps slow with

permanent

> tension, 5 reps fast, no full extension and with a plyometric change

of

> direction at the lowest point, 5 reps explosive with full extension,

and 5 reps slow

> with permanent tension. The load was up to 85% with a 4 series max.

>

> Rens also did single leg hack squats against the wall with a weight

bar. He

> also did other protocols that more closely resembled the demands of

the

> actual event.

>

> Regarding the hamstring work:

>

> Bosch believes that the functional hamstring wants to stop knee

extension

> and wants to assist hip extension. That explains why he works the

hamstrings

> in this manner.

>

> His conclusion relative to Blom's training:

>

> Conditioning and technique integrated in strength training results

in less

> training stress and

> better results in basic running and jumping.

>

> Long term planning is less important than short term adjustments

>

> Finding transfer for the individual athlete is the key

>

> Jumping with competition technique is necessary and other training

should

> not hinder it.

>

> Ken Jakalski

> Lisle HS

> Lisle, Illinois

>

>

>

> ************************************** See what's free at

http://www.aol.com.

>

>

>