Thank you

[Guest guest]

Laurie,

Dizziness from Darvocet is probably just your body adjusting to the medication change. Give it a few days and see if it gets better. You also might want to try decreasing the dose for a few days and gradually going back up. Dizziness alone is not considered an allergy.

Gentle hugs,

Fern

[Guest guest]

Patty

I guess I missed your joining the group but I want to welcome you and say Hi. I hope you are feeling better and up to at least reading mail. I know a girl with Lupus so I realize there are some bad days. I have fibro., chronic fatigue and irritable bowel along with other misc. junk. Days can be hard sometimes but I always seem to do it. Glad your hear and buzz when you need to.

Prayers for you

Thank you

Thank you all for the wonderful 'welcomes'.....

Sorry I've not responded until now... I've had a nasty bout with a Lupus < SLE > flare -up the last few weeks and have been unable to read my e-mail, let alone respond... But I just wanted to say 'THANKS' for this list and the thoughtful and caring people on it.... What a way to network with others and still stay focused on the issues we ALL have to face...'PAIN' of *some* kind......And than YOU Ken, for your 'dream child'..... This list is a an answer to what many of us seek.... Peace of mind, knowing there are others to share this 'world' of ours with......

Take gentle care.....Patty B. ~~~If you really try one can find the beauty in everything...even in the insane mind and the broken heart~~~

Know someone who could profit from our list? Send our direct sign-up URL: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/chronic_pain or write us at: chronic_pain-listowneronelistManage your subscription with several special email addresses:chronic_pain-owneronelist - Sends email to the list owners chronic_pain-subscribeonelist - Subscribe to the list through email chronic_pain-unsubscribeonelist - Unsubscribe from the list chronic_pain-normalonelist - Switch your subscription to normal chronic_pain-digestonelist - Switch your subscription to digest

[Guest guest]

Patty

I guess I missed your joining the group but I want to welcome you and say Hi. I hope you are feeling better and up to at least reading mail. I know a girl with Lupus so I realize there are some bad days. I have fibro., chronic fatigue and irritable bowel along with other misc. junk. Days can be hard sometimes but I always seem to do it. Glad your hear and buzz when you need to.

Prayers for you

Thank you

Thank you all for the wonderful 'welcomes'.....

Sorry I've not responded until now... I've had a nasty bout with a Lupus < SLE > flare -up the last few weeks and have been unable to read my e-mail, let alone respond... But I just wanted to say 'THANKS' for this list and the thoughtful and caring people on it.... What a way to network with others and still stay focused on the issues we ALL have to face...'PAIN' of *some* kind......And than YOU Ken, for your 'dream child'..... This list is a an answer to what many of us seek.... Peace of mind, knowing there are others to share this 'world' of ours with......

Take gentle care.....Patty B. ~~~If you really try one can find the beauty in everything...even in the insane mind and the broken heart~~~

Know someone who could profit from our list? Send our direct sign-up URL: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/chronic_pain or write us at: chronic_pain-listowneronelistManage your subscription with several special email addresses:chronic_pain-owneronelist - Sends email to the list owners chronic_pain-subscribeonelist - Subscribe to the list through email chronic_pain-unsubscribeonelist - Unsubscribe from the list chronic_pain-normalonelist - Switch your subscription to normal chronic_pain-digestonelist - Switch your subscription to digest

[Guest guest]

Ray,

There are days (like today) when I don't see a lot of hope in this life.

Those are the times that I hold on to the only true hope -- that someday I will

be in heaven where

there is no more pain and no more tears.

Sunny

Ray in Virginia wrote:

> Jo,

> Thanks. Sharing our stuggles with each other is a blessing. In reading

> about another's difficulties we can see ourselves a little better. We may

> even arrive at a new way to see ourselves and our lives with chronic disease

> and pain. I know that I have benefited from the help and support that

> others on this list have given me at low points in my life.

> Ray

>

>

> Know someone who could profit from our list? Send our direct sign-up URL:

/subscribe.cgi/chronic_pain or write us at:

chronic_pain-listowneregroups

> Manage your subscription with several special email addresses:

> chronic_pain-owneregroups - Sends email to the list owners

> chronic_pain-subscribeegroups - Subscribe to the list through email

> chronic_pain-unsubscribeegroups - Unsubscribe from the list

> chronic_pain-normalegroups - Switch your subscription to normal

> chronic_pain-digestegroups - Switch your subscription to digest

[Guest guest]

I too used to feel this way, Sunny.

Then my Docs got me on Prozac and now paxil.

That was over ten years ago and either of those meds make life very much easier.

Please do consult with your Doctors ASAP.

The amazing thing was that the Prozac got me up and running (mentally) in one week's time.

Great stuff and little mental pain.

Temp

In SEZ, AZ

////////////////

-----Original Message-----From: Sunny Milton Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 6:16 AMTo: chronic_painegroupsSubject: Re: Thank youRay, There are days (like today) when I don't see a lot of hope in this life. Those are the times that I hold on to the only true hope -- that someday I will be in heaven wherethere is no more pain and no more tears. SunnyRay in Virginia wrote:> Jo,> Thanks. Sharing our stuggles with each other is a blessing. In reading> about another's difficulties we can see ourselves a little better. We may> even arrive at a new way to see ourselves and our lives with chronic disease> and pain. I know that I have benefited from the help and support that> others on this list have given me at low points in my life.> Ray>>> Know someone who could profit from our list? Send our direct sign-up URL: /subscribe.cgi/chronic_pain or write us at: chronic_pain-listowneregroups> Manage your subscription with several special email addresses:> chronic_pain-owneregroups - Sends email to the list owners> chronic_pain-subscribeegroups - Subscribe to the list through email> chronic_pain-unsubscribeegroups - Unsubscribe from the list> chronic_pain-normalegroups - Switch your subscription to normal> chronic_pain-digestegroups - Switch your subscription to digestKnow someone who could profit from our list? Send our direct sign-up URL: /subscribe.cgi/chronic_pain or write us at: chronic_pain-listowneregroupsManage your subscription with several special email addresses:chronic_pain-owneregroups - Sends email to the list owners chronic_pain-subscribeegroups - Subscribe to the list through email chronic_pain-unsubscribeegroups - Unsubscribe from the list chronic_pain-normalegroups - Switch your subscription to normal chronic_pain-digestegroups - Switch your subscription to digest

[Guest guest]

Dear Renée,

I feel so sad when I read your mail and I can understand it all so

well. You are going through things I have been going through when I

was younger; this must be so painful for you. It is so clear that

your parents just don't want you to lead your own life. The scene of

your father tearing apart your letter is making me literally cry;

this is a horrible treatment. Can't they see how much you love them

and how loyal you are to them. And now you've met a significant other

and they don't grant it to you!

I think that you really have to get out of there. It is after all not

any different from living with a husband that abuses you.

You have to go away, the sooner the better. But make a watertight

plan and let yourself be helped.

Cut all contact for let's say 3 months or so. Make sure someone they

know knows that you are OK. Don't accept any emotional blackmail.

These two are clinging to you with all the power they have. And they

do it because once you're gone, they will have to face their own

lives, something they'd rather not do. They have been using you for

all these years. You were their possession.

Please, hang on. You will get through all this and your life will be

much better. But from what I read here, you have to get out of there,

immediately if you ask me. This sounds like they are kidnapping their

own child.

Hang on, you are in my thoughts.

Hildegard

> > OH MY GOD!

> > Your post touches me deeply.

> > The only thing I can say is: Get out of there, the sooner the

> better.

> > On the other hand, if you have lived with your parents for such a

> > long time, you probably need to do this slowly and smoothly.

> Because

> > otherwise the step to your own life might be traumatizing.

> > What always helps me when things become too crazy, is just

thinking

> > of some general principles:

> > * nobody owns you.

> > * nobody cannot not live without you, we are all replacable

> > * nobody has the right to use you to give sense to their life

> > * if parents love their children, they give them the right to

make

> > their own decisions and make their own mistakes.

> > You have the right to take your fate in your own hands, and you

are

> > entitled to unconditional love. I am glad to read that your

> " beloved "

> > supports you.

> > Please keep on posting; you can find some support here.

> > All the best,

> >

> > Hildegard

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Renée,

I feel so sad when I read your mail and I can understand it all so

well. You are going through things I have been going through when I

was younger; this must be so painful for you. It is so clear that

your parents just don't want you to lead your own life. The scene of

your father tearing apart your letter is making me literally cry;

this is a horrible treatment. Can't they see how much you love them

and how loyal you are to them. And now you've met a significant other

and they don't grant it to you!

I think that you really have to get out of there. It is after all not

any different from living with a husband that abuses you.

You have to go away, the sooner the better. But make a watertight

plan and let yourself be helped.

Cut all contact for let's say 3 months or so. Make sure someone they

know knows that you are OK. Don't accept any emotional blackmail.

These two are clinging to you with all the power they have. And they

do it because once you're gone, they will have to face their own

lives, something they'd rather not do. They have been using you for

all these years. You were their possession.

Please, hang on. You will get through all this and your life will be

much better. But from what I read here, you have to get out of there,

immediately if you ask me. This sounds like they are kidnapping their

own child.

Hang on, you are in my thoughts.

Hildegard

> > OH MY GOD!

> > Your post touches me deeply.

> > The only thing I can say is: Get out of there, the sooner the

> better.

> > On the other hand, if you have lived with your parents for such a

> > long time, you probably need to do this slowly and smoothly.

> Because

> > otherwise the step to your own life might be traumatizing.

> > What always helps me when things become too crazy, is just

thinking

> > of some general principles:

> > * nobody owns you.

> > * nobody cannot not live without you, we are all replacable

> > * nobody has the right to use you to give sense to their life

> > * if parents love their children, they give them the right to

make

> > their own decisions and make their own mistakes.

> > You have the right to take your fate in your own hands, and you

are

> > entitled to unconditional love. I am glad to read that your

> " beloved "

> > supports you.

> > Please keep on posting; you can find some support here.

> > All the best,

> >

> > Hildegard

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Renée,

I feel so sad when I read your mail and I can understand it all so

well. You are going through things I have been going through when I

was younger; this must be so painful for you. It is so clear that

your parents just don't want you to lead your own life. The scene of

your father tearing apart your letter is making me literally cry;

this is a horrible treatment. Can't they see how much you love them

and how loyal you are to them. And now you've met a significant other

and they don't grant it to you!

I think that you really have to get out of there. It is after all not

any different from living with a husband that abuses you.

You have to go away, the sooner the better. But make a watertight

plan and let yourself be helped.

Cut all contact for let's say 3 months or so. Make sure someone they

know knows that you are OK. Don't accept any emotional blackmail.

These two are clinging to you with all the power they have. And they

do it because once you're gone, they will have to face their own

lives, something they'd rather not do. They have been using you for

all these years. You were their possession.

Please, hang on. You will get through all this and your life will be

much better. But from what I read here, you have to get out of there,

immediately if you ask me. This sounds like they are kidnapping their

own child.

Hang on, you are in my thoughts.

Hildegard

> > OH MY GOD!

> > Your post touches me deeply.

> > The only thing I can say is: Get out of there, the sooner the

> better.

> > On the other hand, if you have lived with your parents for such a

> > long time, you probably need to do this slowly and smoothly.

> Because

> > otherwise the step to your own life might be traumatizing.

> > What always helps me when things become too crazy, is just

thinking

> > of some general principles:

> > * nobody owns you.

> > * nobody cannot not live without you, we are all replacable

> > * nobody has the right to use you to give sense to their life

> > * if parents love their children, they give them the right to

make

> > their own decisions and make their own mistakes.

> > You have the right to take your fate in your own hands, and you

are

> > entitled to unconditional love. I am glad to read that your

> " beloved "

> > supports you.

> > Please keep on posting; you can find some support here.

> > All the best,

> >

> > Hildegard

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

!!

I just read your posting! So much reminds me of my own life. And when

you said " Afterwards, I crawled into bed for an awful night of trying to

figure out how I could survive what my life was becoming. " it brought

back a million memories of laying in my bed at my parents house feeling

scared, confused, helpless, hurt, betrayed, defeated, and at my wit's

end. Once you realize what's been happening to you, you owe it to

yourself to make changes and take care of yourself. You have to take

such big steps though, and it's so scary- so daunting sometimes. After

all, they've kept you pretty much cut off from the rest of the world,

from healthy relationships, and from any other resources that other

people could use to help get them out of the kind of a situation you're

in. Besides that, there's some kind of comfort in what's familiar in

spite of the fact that you know it's bad for you. I can tell that you

are a strong person though, just by the fact that you have stood up to

them regarding and it looks like you are on the track to

something really great. I totally agree with and Hildegard when

they say you need to get out of there. You are worth a lot more than

being what your parents give you credit for. And you certainly don't

deserve to be treated the way they are treating you. I know that the

whole idea of leaving seems intimidating and at times impossible, but

it's not. It's not easy by any means, but it's not impossible. And your

nada and father aren't going to make it easy on you- Hildegard is

probably right when she says that letting go of you is going to mean your

parents are going to have to face themselves and eachother and they sure

don't want to do that. But in spite of all the dificulties, when you are

finally one day free of them, living the life you want to live, in

relationships with people who love you the way love is supposed to be,

you are going to be so happy you might not even know what to do with

yourself. I hope that you can see that you are so worthy of having that

freedom in your life- you deserve so much more than the life they are

forcing upon you. And remember you're not alone in this at all. You're

first of all so lucky to have - and besides that, you've got all

of us behind you. Take care!

Caty

On Thu, 11 Oct 2001 15:32:28 -0000 reneeswolf@... writes:

> Thank you, Hildegard and , with all my heart for your kind

> words.

>

> My lightbulb is still pretty dim, but I'm starting to understand

> that

> one of the things that's happened to me over the past 20 or so years

>

> is that I've assumed a " loner " persona. I don't talk to people

> about

> anything in my life because my mother has never liked my friends for

>

> long and is paranoid about loyalty to the family.

>

> I hit bottom in this solitude three weeks ago, when my parents

> presented me with information my father had systematically gathered

>

> against . My father had gone on-line, to court houses, to

> city halls, to other places to put together this indictment against

>

> him, and the two of them held a kangaroo court where he was found

> guilty of everything but 9/11. It was insane.

>

> My father (a retired corporate executive) put together a

> presentation

> complete with graphs, and delivered it with such contempt it felt

> like my heart froze. The hardest part wasn't that he did this, but

>

> that his findings were irrational. He prides himself on a

> scientific

> mind, but but what he'd done wasn't just morally wrong from the

> invasion of privacy standpoint - it was just plain incorrect. His

> conclusions were purely illogical, yet he shouted me down as I

> questioned them. My mother just kept spitting accusations at me

> throughout his " testimony " , her face twisted in rage. She calmed

> down for a while when I started to just sob. I think she thought

> I'd

> caved. Then when she demanded that I promise to never marry

> ,

> and I refused, she just lost it. She'd begun attacking him months

> ago, but this is the first time in my life that she had ever

> attacked

> me. It was like she truly hated me.

>

> Afterwards, I crawled into bed for an awful night of trying to

> figure

> out how I could survive what my life was becoming. I talked to

> , who (thank God) is a psychologist and has much experience

> with bpd. That's when he explained it to me, at 3 in the morning.

>

> After we spoke, I was just stunned. I didn't know what to do, just

>

> that I had to live somehow. was my only support, because

> I've distanced myself from everyone to be " loyal " to my family. I

> understood I couldn't put all this on him alone, so tried to think

> of

> three colleagues at work whom I might be able to talk to the next

> day, for some validation that I wasn't this evil, stupid,

> brainwashed, pathetic creature. I am blessed that I work for a

> human

> service agency, so each of them has a background in mental health.

> I

> received so much support and kindness, that I realized that reaching

>

> out was the only way I was going to make it. I still don't talk to

>

> them much, but they check in with me, and I know I have a place to

> stay with each of them if I have to leave.

>

> I am afraid of my father; I believe he is capable of violence.

>

> It's grown harder at home since then. I wrote a seven page letter

> to

> them begging them to understand that I love them, don't want to

> upset

> them, but have to be able to choose and to make mistakes if I choose

>

> wrong. That was two weeks ago, in response to my father telling me

>

> he needed to have a father/daughter talk with me (after the first

> kangaroo court failed to make me give in). I was terrified, because

>

> we've never had one before. That night, after I emailed the letter

>

> to them, I sat with him for three hours as he tore my letter apart.

>

> He literally wrote all over it in red pen, like a professor with a

> stupid student. My mother, whom I've defended against him and

> protected from him (at her insistence) for 20 years, let him. They

>

> then joined forces to tell me how they'll never trust me again, that

>

> I've destroyed the family. Never mind that my brother bailed ten

> years ago and we haven't seen him since. Never mind that my father

> has been emotionally neglectful and abusive to my mother (and she to

>

> him) for decades. I am now the betrayer.

>

> It continues to escalate; I continue to buy into their accusations

> and to try to keep doing everything I've always done for them and

> actually live the way I always have. That means not going out

> except

> to go to work, spending all weekend with her, having dinner with

> them

> on Saturday night. I'm afraid to stop because it feels like then

> they'll be right. I'm afraid to see even the one short

> evening a week that we have since things got hard because they treat

>

> me so badly afterwards. I feel like I'm suffocating, like I'm a

> prisoner who's actually being tortured...and I've yet to really

> understand why I should protect myself from them, why I'm more

> important than they are. At some level my inner voice says I have

> to

> in order to survive. But it gets drowned out by their louder

> voices.

>

> A long long way of saying, thank you for your response to me. I

> don't know how I'm going to survive this still. I'm afraid of

> breaking down completely. I keep telling myself that to keep

> reaching out is a good thing, which is why I wrote yesterday and am

>

> writing today. I am very glad to not be alone with this - that I

> have , my therapist, my colleagues, and this site.

>

> But the nights are so long, and the weekends are so awful.

>

>

>

>

> > OH MY GOD!

> > Your post touches me deeply.

> > The only thing I can say is: Get out of there, the sooner the

> better.

> > On the other hand, if you have lived with your parents for such a

>

> > long time, you probably need to do this slowly and smoothly.

> Because

> > otherwise the step to your own life might be traumatizing.

> > What always helps me when things become too crazy, is just

> thinking

> > of some general principles:

> > * nobody owns you.

> > * nobody cannot not live without you, we are all replacable

> > * nobody has the right to use you to give sense to their life

> > * if parents love their children, they give them the right to make

>

> > their own decisions and make their own mistakes.

> > You have the right to take your fate in your own hands, and you

> are

> > entitled to unconditional love. I am glad to read that your

> " beloved "

> > supports you.

> > Please keep on posting; you can find some support here.

> > All the best,

> >

> > Hildegard

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

!!

I just read your posting! So much reminds me of my own life. And when

you said " Afterwards, I crawled into bed for an awful night of trying to

figure out how I could survive what my life was becoming. " it brought

back a million memories of laying in my bed at my parents house feeling

scared, confused, helpless, hurt, betrayed, defeated, and at my wit's

end. Once you realize what's been happening to you, you owe it to

yourself to make changes and take care of yourself. You have to take

such big steps though, and it's so scary- so daunting sometimes. After

all, they've kept you pretty much cut off from the rest of the world,

from healthy relationships, and from any other resources that other

people could use to help get them out of the kind of a situation you're

in. Besides that, there's some kind of comfort in what's familiar in

spite of the fact that you know it's bad for you. I can tell that you

are a strong person though, just by the fact that you have stood up to

them regarding and it looks like you are on the track to

something really great. I totally agree with and Hildegard when

they say you need to get out of there. You are worth a lot more than

being what your parents give you credit for. And you certainly don't

deserve to be treated the way they are treating you. I know that the

whole idea of leaving seems intimidating and at times impossible, but

it's not. It's not easy by any means, but it's not impossible. And your

nada and father aren't going to make it easy on you- Hildegard is

probably right when she says that letting go of you is going to mean your

parents are going to have to face themselves and eachother and they sure

don't want to do that. But in spite of all the dificulties, when you are

finally one day free of them, living the life you want to live, in

relationships with people who love you the way love is supposed to be,

you are going to be so happy you might not even know what to do with

yourself. I hope that you can see that you are so worthy of having that

freedom in your life- you deserve so much more than the life they are

forcing upon you. And remember you're not alone in this at all. You're

first of all so lucky to have - and besides that, you've got all

of us behind you. Take care!

Caty

On Thu, 11 Oct 2001 15:32:28 -0000 reneeswolf@... writes:

> Thank you, Hildegard and , with all my heart for your kind

> words.

>

> My lightbulb is still pretty dim, but I'm starting to understand

> that

> one of the things that's happened to me over the past 20 or so years

>

> is that I've assumed a " loner " persona. I don't talk to people

> about

> anything in my life because my mother has never liked my friends for

>

> long and is paranoid about loyalty to the family.

>

> I hit bottom in this solitude three weeks ago, when my parents

> presented me with information my father had systematically gathered

>

> against . My father had gone on-line, to court houses, to

> city halls, to other places to put together this indictment against

>

> him, and the two of them held a kangaroo court where he was found

> guilty of everything but 9/11. It was insane.

>

> My father (a retired corporate executive) put together a

> presentation

> complete with graphs, and delivered it with such contempt it felt

> like my heart froze. The hardest part wasn't that he did this, but

>

> that his findings were irrational. He prides himself on a

> scientific

> mind, but but what he'd done wasn't just morally wrong from the

> invasion of privacy standpoint - it was just plain incorrect. His

> conclusions were purely illogical, yet he shouted me down as I

> questioned them. My mother just kept spitting accusations at me

> throughout his " testimony " , her face twisted in rage. She calmed

> down for a while when I started to just sob. I think she thought

> I'd

> caved. Then when she demanded that I promise to never marry

> ,

> and I refused, she just lost it. She'd begun attacking him months

> ago, but this is the first time in my life that she had ever

> attacked

> me. It was like she truly hated me.

>

> Afterwards, I crawled into bed for an awful night of trying to

> figure

> out how I could survive what my life was becoming. I talked to

> , who (thank God) is a psychologist and has much experience

> with bpd. That's when he explained it to me, at 3 in the morning.

>

> After we spoke, I was just stunned. I didn't know what to do, just

>

> that I had to live somehow. was my only support, because

> I've distanced myself from everyone to be " loyal " to my family. I

> understood I couldn't put all this on him alone, so tried to think

> of

> three colleagues at work whom I might be able to talk to the next

> day, for some validation that I wasn't this evil, stupid,

> brainwashed, pathetic creature. I am blessed that I work for a

> human

> service agency, so each of them has a background in mental health.

> I

> received so much support and kindness, that I realized that reaching

>

> out was the only way I was going to make it. I still don't talk to

>

> them much, but they check in with me, and I know I have a place to

> stay with each of them if I have to leave.

>

> I am afraid of my father; I believe he is capable of violence.

>

> It's grown harder at home since then. I wrote a seven page letter

> to

> them begging them to understand that I love them, don't want to

> upset

> them, but have to be able to choose and to make mistakes if I choose

>

> wrong. That was two weeks ago, in response to my father telling me

>

> he needed to have a father/daughter talk with me (after the first

> kangaroo court failed to make me give in). I was terrified, because

>

> we've never had one before. That night, after I emailed the letter

>

> to them, I sat with him for three hours as he tore my letter apart.

>

> He literally wrote all over it in red pen, like a professor with a

> stupid student. My mother, whom I've defended against him and

> protected from him (at her insistence) for 20 years, let him. They

>

> then joined forces to tell me how they'll never trust me again, that

>

> I've destroyed the family. Never mind that my brother bailed ten

> years ago and we haven't seen him since. Never mind that my father

> has been emotionally neglectful and abusive to my mother (and she to

>

> him) for decades. I am now the betrayer.

>

> It continues to escalate; I continue to buy into their accusations

> and to try to keep doing everything I've always done for them and

> actually live the way I always have. That means not going out

> except

> to go to work, spending all weekend with her, having dinner with

> them

> on Saturday night. I'm afraid to stop because it feels like then

> they'll be right. I'm afraid to see even the one short

> evening a week that we have since things got hard because they treat

>

> me so badly afterwards. I feel like I'm suffocating, like I'm a

> prisoner who's actually being tortured...and I've yet to really

> understand why I should protect myself from them, why I'm more

> important than they are. At some level my inner voice says I have

> to

> in order to survive. But it gets drowned out by their louder

> voices.

>

> A long long way of saying, thank you for your response to me. I

> don't know how I'm going to survive this still. I'm afraid of

> breaking down completely. I keep telling myself that to keep

> reaching out is a good thing, which is why I wrote yesterday and am

>

> writing today. I am very glad to not be alone with this - that I

> have , my therapist, my colleagues, and this site.

>

> But the nights are so long, and the weekends are so awful.

>

>

>

>

> > OH MY GOD!

> > Your post touches me deeply.

> > The only thing I can say is: Get out of there, the sooner the

> better.

> > On the other hand, if you have lived with your parents for such a

>

> > long time, you probably need to do this slowly and smoothly.

> Because

> > otherwise the step to your own life might be traumatizing.

> > What always helps me when things become too crazy, is just

> thinking

> > of some general principles:

> > * nobody owns you.

> > * nobody cannot not live without you, we are all replacable

> > * nobody has the right to use you to give sense to their life

> > * if parents love their children, they give them the right to make

>

> > their own decisions and make their own mistakes.

> > You have the right to take your fate in your own hands, and you

> are

> > entitled to unconditional love. I am glad to read that your

> " beloved "

> > supports you.

> > Please keep on posting; you can find some support here.

> > All the best,

> >

> > Hildegard

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

hi renee.....

I was saved by a loving husband who loved me for who I was,in

spite of my crazy family, and who gave me the strength to begin

to deal with my family of origin.....

that was 17 years ago, and in spite of meeting his AWAY from my

family, I actually ended up moving INTO THE SAME HOUSE with

my parents and toxic brothers in a last ditch effort to recreate the

Waltons. Oddly the thing that propelled me into that situation was

the reading of " The Family " by ....the famous book about

dysfunctional families by Bradshaw. Anyway....after years of living

in the same house with them, the house was " blown up " by my

father having a rage fit about my sister in law who was in town for

experimental cancer therapy. My parents moved out bec. I moved

out and it was over. Then I had to deal with the return of the full

blown nada and a brother who joined the toxic movement with

full energy..

finally....an open door...and we moved back to New England. But

not before Nada had announced that she was living with us part

of the year. The house is nice and she wanted a freebie.

Finally ----on Sunday I divorced her to her face, and although she

was scheduled to leave on Tuesday, I asked her to leave now,

because I just could not look at her face for one more minute.

I comes from a family with Filipino cultural values which

embrace care of the elderly and an exagerrated reverence for the

elders without any responsibility on the part of the seniors in a

family. All my life I was taught to answer to my mother's slightest

whim. I found my first escape in an elopement, (which ended in

widowhood by suicide), and my second escape when I realized

my father could get violent. It was horrible to see the risk I had

put my family through.

Finally, my sister died last year and I just didn't have the

" emotional fat " to deal with the family anymore.

If you have true love in your life, then please don't let it pass you

by. Let it give you strength to move on.

I have brothers who will never marry bec. they are still in the

nada-care mode. I had an aunt who didn't marry her true love

because my grandfather did a presentation much like your

father's and to force the breakup.

Do you have money of your own? Do you have a way to move or

live somewhere else?

have courage....

Kathleen

[Guest guest]

hi renee.....

I was saved by a loving husband who loved me for who I was,in

spite of my crazy family, and who gave me the strength to begin

to deal with my family of origin.....

that was 17 years ago, and in spite of meeting his AWAY from my

family, I actually ended up moving INTO THE SAME HOUSE with

my parents and toxic brothers in a last ditch effort to recreate the

Waltons. Oddly the thing that propelled me into that situation was

the reading of " The Family " by ....the famous book about

dysfunctional families by Bradshaw. Anyway....after years of living

in the same house with them, the house was " blown up " by my

father having a rage fit about my sister in law who was in town for

experimental cancer therapy. My parents moved out bec. I moved

out and it was over. Then I had to deal with the return of the full

blown nada and a brother who joined the toxic movement with

full energy..

finally....an open door...and we moved back to New England. But

not before Nada had announced that she was living with us part

of the year. The house is nice and she wanted a freebie.

Finally ----on Sunday I divorced her to her face, and although she

was scheduled to leave on Tuesday, I asked her to leave now,

because I just could not look at her face for one more minute.

I comes from a family with Filipino cultural values which

embrace care of the elderly and an exagerrated reverence for the

elders without any responsibility on the part of the seniors in a

family. All my life I was taught to answer to my mother's slightest

whim. I found my first escape in an elopement, (which ended in

widowhood by suicide), and my second escape when I realized

my father could get violent. It was horrible to see the risk I had

put my family through.

Finally, my sister died last year and I just didn't have the

" emotional fat " to deal with the family anymore.

If you have true love in your life, then please don't let it pass you

by. Let it give you strength to move on.

I have brothers who will never marry bec. they are still in the

nada-care mode. I had an aunt who didn't marry her true love

because my grandfather did a presentation much like your

father's and to force the breakup.

Do you have money of your own? Do you have a way to move or

live somewhere else?

have courage....

Kathleen

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/4/02 1:03:18 PM Central Daylight Time,

lindadkc@... writes:

> he has the shuffle walk . and sorta bent over in the shoulders . and is

> stiff..

Is he being treated for this Parkinsonism, ? Sinemet has helped my

husband for a long time. He no longer shuffles, but being bent in the

shoulders has worsened to head-on-chest, which is bad for the esophagus and

airway. Keeping your FIL as straight as possible for as long as possible

will certainly improve his quality of life. Also, the further he stoops the

more compressed his internal organs will be, making it hard for them to

function. Respiratory problems also become dangerous.

Sinemet treatment requires working with several neurotransmitter systems; a

good neurologist can do wonders. Let us know if you need help here.

Cheryl

[Guest guest]

when he started all this he was seeing this one doctor and he had him on all

kinds of meds.. one of them was sinemet and than amitriplyline a antidepessant..

than at one time on prozic.. well all the meds he was on made him go almost

nuts.. we change dr to geriatric dr.. we ask him if he needed to see a

neuologist. he said he could do what they could do for him..

he is on reminyl and blood pressure meds.. we found out certain meds don't mix

when you have lewy bodies.. and i have read that also.. thank you .. lindad

----- Original MesFrom: LewyLady@...

To: LBDcaregivers

Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 1:47 PM

Subject: Re: thank you

In a message dated 5/4/02 1:03:18 PM Central Daylight Time,

lindadkc@... writes:

> he has the shuffle walk . and sorta bent over in the shoulders . and is

> stiff..

Is he being treated for this Parkinsonism, ? Sinemet has helped my

husband for a long time. He no longer shuffles, but being bent in the

shoulders has worsened to head-on-chest, which is bad for the esophagus and

airway. Keeping your FIL as straight as possible for as long as possible

will certainly improve his quality of life. Also, the further he stoops the

more compressed his internal organs will be, making it hard for them to

function. Respiratory problems also become dangerous.

Sinemet treatment requires working with several neurotransmitter systems; a

good neurologist can do wonders. Let us know if you need help here.

Cheryl

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/4/02 5:15:10 PM Central Daylight Time,

lindadkc@... writes:

> we change dr to geriatric dr.. we ask him if he needed to see a neuologist.

> he said he could do what they could do for him..

whoops - excuse me, but there are these specialties called COGNITIVE

NEUROLOGY and GERIATRIC PSYCHIATRY! My experience with a geriatrician has

sadly been that he was not up to date on the research. PLUS, there are

multiple neurotransmitter systems to be dealt with in the administration of

Sinemet and other drugs. AND, per our researcher Cognitive Neurologist, most

doctors don't want to be bothered with the details. (And he is most

decidedly not the egotistical kind of doc that we/some have such problems

with.)

So sorry, , but I have a major problem with docs who think they are

specialists when they are not. (can you tell?)

There are just so many variables and problems in administering to LBD

patients that I have a profound respect for those practitioners who know they

don't know it all and who consult with colleagues. This most often happens

in the major medical institutions where there is a serious effort to

understand the disease.

Cheryl LL

[Guest guest]

i understand ..

it was great talking to you on msn.. have to do that again sometime. have a good

night. lindad

Re: thank you

In a message dated 5/4/02 5:15:10 PM Central Daylight Time,

lindadkc@... writes:

> we change dr to geriatric dr.. we ask him if he needed to see a neuologist.

> he said he could do what they could do for him..

whoops - excuse me, but there are these specialties called COGNITIVE

NEUROLOGY and GERIATRIC PSYCHIATRY! My experience with a geriatrician has

sadly been that he was not up to date on the research. PLUS, there are

multiple neurotransmitter systems to be dealt with in the administration of

Sinemet and other drugs. AND, per our researcher Cognitive Neurologist, most

doctors don't want to be bothered with the details. (And he is most

decidedly not the egotistical kind of doc that we/some have such problems

with.)

So sorry, , but I have a major problem with docs who think they are

specialists when they are not. (can you tell?)

There are just so many variables and problems in administering to LBD

patients that I have a profound respect for those practitioners who know they

don't know it all and who consult with colleagues. This most often happens

in the major medical institutions where there is a serious effort to

understand the disease.

Cheryl LL

[Guest guest]

Thanks to all for responding to my question when I needed help looking

up meds. It is so comforting to know when I have no other resources to

search, this group is here for me and willing to help. A BIG THANKS!

:-))

Sandie

Des Moines, IA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/28/02 4:37:06 AM Central Standard Time,

_Hendrick@... writes:

> It's nice to finally have contact with other parents who have a child

> with PMG. Up to now we've been floating in space not knowing much

> about the condition or it's impact on Daire's life

Oh , do I remember that feeling so VERY well..... Before we were able to

purchase the computer, all we had was 5 pieces of paper from the March of

Dimes telling us about the diagnosis. We were so scared & alone, not knowing

what to expect. The Dr.'s here had never seen a case before & were about as

uselesss as a Wal-Mart greeter..... (God forgive me, if anyone on the list is

one.) I'll write & tell you more about my son Cody shortly. I've covered up

right now with work on banjos & everyone wants them back yesterday. This

group will give you a greater piece of mind & the ultimate place to

vent...... No one can understand what your going thru except people that

" know " what your going thru. ;-)

Best,

K.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/28/02 4:37:06 AM Central Standard Time,

_Hendrick@... writes:

> It's nice to finally have contact with other parents who have a child

> with PMG. Up to now we've been floating in space not knowing much

> about the condition or it's impact on Daire's life

Oh , do I remember that feeling so VERY well..... Before we were able to

purchase the computer, all we had was 5 pieces of paper from the March of

Dimes telling us about the diagnosis. We were so scared & alone, not knowing

what to expect. The Dr.'s here had never seen a case before & were about as

uselesss as a Wal-Mart greeter..... (God forgive me, if anyone on the list is

one.) I'll write & tell you more about my son Cody shortly. I've covered up

right now with work on banjos & everyone wants them back yesterday. This

group will give you a greater piece of mind & the ultimate place to

vent...... No one can understand what your going thru except people that

" know " what your going thru. ;-)

Best,

K.

[Guest guest]

I know I feel the same guilt that you feel. I know Mom would be much better in

Heaven but it sounds bad when you say you wish your mom dead. It is in a

different context though.

I have always been pro -life and also against mercy killing. I still am, but

now I

understand how people can think that that is the answer. It seems cruel to put

our LO's through this, but they might reach one person that we do not know

about and change their life forever. We have no idea what purpose they still

have on this earth. It's not for us to decide. However, I too have told my

kids

to shoot me if something like this happens to me. Their answer was we are so

close in age (twenty years apart) that we will be in the nh together. LOL

Sheila

-- In LBDcaregivers@y..., " northergirl " <dianemac@t...> wrote:

> Thanks for the your response to my question. I know that right now,

> mom says that Dad sleeps a lot, however, I don't know what else he

> would do. He rubs his hands together a lot, I have asked him if his

> hands are cold or bothering him, he just looks at me blankly. I

> think it is because he doesn't know what to do. He has been self

> employed all his life. He has told us so many times in the past,

> that the day that he can't take care of himself, to shoot him. I

> know that if he knew this was going on that he would rather that we

> did. Mom has to take him to the bathroom all the time now, and after

> reading some of the messages, it would appear that this is a " normal "

> process. I know that his hallucinations are quite vivid. He thinks

> that my mom is sleeping around, and that the " men in the bedroom "

> have been paid by her to come and kill him. He sees so much, and the

> blank wall is definetly the canvass. Mom gets frustrated, and

> sometimes from lack of sleep, gets quite angry with him. I feel for

> her and wish that she would consider respit, however she dosen't

> think that he is ready for that. I always say perhaps he may not be,

> but perhaps she is, but she says no, not yet. I feel helpless at

> times as I am so far away from them. I know that she does her best,

> but I worry about her sanity as well. I really hope that it doesn't

> continue too long, it seems unfair to both of them. I know last

> night she told me she hopes to get another summer out of it, but, I

> don't know. I also feel bad for thinking that it would be better if

> he just did not.

[Guest guest]

I know I feel the same guilt that you feel. I know Mom would be much better in

Heaven but it sounds bad when you say you wish your mom dead. It is in a

different context though.

I have always been pro -life and also against mercy killing. I still am, but

now I

understand how people can think that that is the answer. It seems cruel to put

our LO's through this, but they might reach one person that we do not know

about and change their life forever. We have no idea what purpose they still

have on this earth. It's not for us to decide. However, I too have told my

kids

to shoot me if something like this happens to me. Their answer was we are so

close in age (twenty years apart) that we will be in the nh together. LOL

Sheila

-- In LBDcaregivers@y..., " northergirl " <dianemac@t...> wrote:

> Thanks for the your response to my question. I know that right now,

> mom says that Dad sleeps a lot, however, I don't know what else he

> would do. He rubs his hands together a lot, I have asked him if his

> hands are cold or bothering him, he just looks at me blankly. I

> think it is because he doesn't know what to do. He has been self

> employed all his life. He has told us so many times in the past,

> that the day that he can't take care of himself, to shoot him. I

> know that if he knew this was going on that he would rather that we

> did. Mom has to take him to the bathroom all the time now, and after

> reading some of the messages, it would appear that this is a " normal "

> process. I know that his hallucinations are quite vivid. He thinks

> that my mom is sleeping around, and that the " men in the bedroom "

> have been paid by her to come and kill him. He sees so much, and the

> blank wall is definetly the canvass. Mom gets frustrated, and

> sometimes from lack of sleep, gets quite angry with him. I feel for

> her and wish that she would consider respit, however she dosen't

> think that he is ready for that. I always say perhaps he may not be,

> but perhaps she is, but she says no, not yet. I feel helpless at

> times as I am so far away from them. I know that she does her best,

> but I worry about her sanity as well. I really hope that it doesn't

> continue too long, it seems unfair to both of them. I know last

> night she told me she hopes to get another summer out of it, but, I

> don't know. I also feel bad for thinking that it would be better if

> he just did not.

[Guest guest]

Diane,

I got my Mom to give up a lot of the " people " she saw particularly in

the bedroom, by covering the mirrors and covering the windows at night

when they might refect light. Same in the bathroom.

Donna

[Guest guest]

Diane,

I got my Mom to give up a lot of the " people " she saw particularly in

the bedroom, by covering the mirrors and covering the windows at night

when they might refect light. Same in the bathroom.

Donna

[Guest guest]

Diane

We took mirrors down in dads room of the NH, plus covered his windows

with shelf tacky tape. In the hospital, they remembered dad and covered

the picture in his room.

Sandie

[Guest guest]

Diane

We took mirrors down in dads room of the NH, plus covered his windows

with shelf tacky tape. In the hospital, they remembered dad and covered

the picture in his room.

Sandie