Injury- Lower back

October 11, 2007

Disc problems are my speciality. I blew my L5/1 disc in 1976 which you

read about at www.backextender .com. When I started my chiropractic

training the school had just introduced a new therapy approach initially

designed for treating disc problems called Flexion Distraction Therapy

aka the Technique. The doctor who was to teach the course asked me

if I would be one of his test subjects while he worked out the

technique. That was only approach which gave me relief and I am sure

that along with thousands of hypers and decompression exercises like

hanging leg raises which have worked over the years. My suggestion is

that you find a PT or DC who uses this technique and give it a try. Of

course you can come to New Zealand for treatment….

Dr J , MSc., DC

Whangarei, NEW ZEALAND

Eddie White wrote:

>

> As I age I seem to work harder and smarter but still injure myself. I

> have enjoyed an almost indestructible back during most of my power

> lifting career but last week while training for the AAU World Meet in

> Orlando I managed to damage some disks in my lower back. I was doing

> heavy box squats with 450 lbs of weight and 120llbs of bands. This is

> not an exceptional amount for me as I have used much more. At any rate

> on my last set and rep I was coming off the box and felt a pop and

> then the shooting pain all the way into my left foot. Turns out I have

> 2 bulging disks and another with some arthritus in it. Currently, my

> therapy includes the spinal steroid shots and physical therapy. The

> doctor says I am not a candidate for surgery and should heal.

>

> My question is: Have any of you had experience with someone in similar

> circumstance and were they able to rehab to their former selves

> without constantly injuring their back. Doctors where I live think

> power lifters are crazy to put so much load on their spines. I

> purchased a book called Ultimate Back Fitness and Performance by

> Sturart McGill and I am attempting to read it order to design my own

> rehab plan. Any help anyone could give me would be greatly appreciated.

>

> Just a few particulars: I was training at 205 bodywt. and planned to

> lift at 198. My peaking triples were 3/560 on squat, 3/385 on bench,

> and 3/640 on deadlift. I was hoping for at least 600/415/705. My in

> injuries are at L-4 and L-5 and the disks are pressing on the ciatic

> nerve. The shots have alleviated 60% of the pain and I now can at

> least walk with a limp. I have taken two as of yesterday and have a

> third to go then I start PT. I think any of you who have done a sport

> all their lives can appreciate how apprehensive I am at this point. If

> you can help or point me in the right direction for more information,

> I will forever be in your debt.

>

> Eddie White

> Blue Springs, Mo.

October 12, 2007

Stuart McGill recently published a DVD (2 DVD set) on his back program.

I ordered it but have not seen it.

Tom Fahey

Cal State Chico

USA

Injury- Lower back

As I age I seem to work harder and smarter but still injure myself. I

have

enjoyed an almost indestructible back during most of my power lifting

career but

last week while training for the AAU World Meet in Orlando I managed to

damage

some disks in my lower back. I was doing heavy box squats with 450 lbs

of

weight and 120llbs of bands. This is not an exceptional amount for me

as I have

used much more. At any rate on my last set and rep I was coming off

the box and

felt a pop and then the shooting pain all the way into my left foot.

Turns out

I have 2 bulging disks and another with some arthritus in it.

Currently, my

therapy includes the spinal steroid shots and physical therapy. The

doctor says

I am not a candidate for surgery and should heal.

My question is: Have any of you had experience with someone in similar

circumstance and were they able to rehab to their former selves without

constantly injuring their back. Doctors where I live think power

lifters are

crazy to put so much load on their spines. I purchased a book called

Ultimate

Back Fitness and Performance by Sturart McGill and I am attempting to

read it

order to design my own rehab plan. Any help anyone could give me would

be

greatly appreciated.

Just a few particulars: I was training at 205 bodywt. and planned to

lift at

198. My peaking triples were 3/560 on squat, 3/385 on bench, and 3/640

on

deadlift. I was hoping for at least 600/415/705. My in injuries are

at L-4 and

L-5 and the disks are pressing on the ciatic nerve. The shots have

alleviated

60% of the pain and I now can at least walk with a limp. I have taken

two as of

yesterday and have a third to go then I start PT. I think any of you

who have

done a sport all their lives can appreciate how apprehensive I am at

this point.

If you can help or point me in the right direction for more

information, I will

forever be in your debt.

=======================

October 12, 2007

For starters being a lifter why are you getting steroid shots and

physical therapy for you lower back anyway? What is your thinking?

Do you want mismanage your condition into a chronic inflammatory

one?

There is the world of hard and soft reality. Athletes live in the

world of hard reality of performance. No one cares if you hurt they

care if you can catch the ball or not. The average person lives in

the world of soft reality. No one really cares if they do less and

less as their muscular-skeletal package degenerates.

Your lower back muscle-bone-nerve-disc package is machinery.

Muscles do not work in isolation. They pull on bones that act of

levers. The bones move about joints that act as fulcrums. Your

back is a lever machine system that produces force by the act of

leverage.

If you want to reach resolution (to be good as new or close to it as

possible) you need to upgrade your knowledge so you can better

manage your condition. 1st off realize that your chemical medicine

doctor and PT are soft reality thinkers. They are working over the

demise of your parts and the nobility of their treatment is to make

your demise less subjectively severe.

Biomechanical Medical Pathology should be dictating your thinking

and treatment.

When you injured lower back you damaged the parts (disc, facets

surfaces, muscle). When you injure part of the machinery your body

starts the healing process. This is known as the acute inflammatory

stage. It involves pain, heat, swelling and redness. Your body

emits chemicals that cause your sensation of pain to promote the

healing response.

(1st step) Stopping Harmful Activity and Stabilization: When parts

are injured they have lost their specialized ability to function.

That means to align your self with the acute inflammatory healing

response you stop harmful activity and stabilize the injured area so

the parts that have lost their specialized ability are not called

upon to do so and therefore suffer re injury. As Hippocrates

said " the doctor will use plenty of splints and bandages to aid the

joint to heal " .

You immediately stop activity and stabilize your lower back so if

muscles are injured they are not called upon to function to produce

force. If its discs they are not called upon to stabilize

compression forces. If its facets surfaces they cannot sustain

shear forces.

(2nd step) Orthopedic training/treatment: To reach resolution

requires the restoration and preservation of proper skeletal posture

(global & segmental). When the global and segmental posture of the

machine parts are not correct then they will not work with proper

physiology and the injury will not reach resolution but will become

a chronic inflammatory condition.

You have posterior bulged discs that are causing spinal stenosis and

entrapment of the sciatic nerve supposedly within the canal space.

This is typical biomechanical condition caused by posterior movement

of the superior vertebra on the inferior vertebra. Your chemical

medicine do not care about this it is your physical medicine people

that do.

The superior vertebra moves posterior due to posterior shear forces

and when it does it takes the disc with it and bulges it into canal

space. It also mechanically causes stenosis of the foraminal

opening where the sciatic nerve exits the spinal column.

Your next step is to take the mystery out of x-ray and MRI and to

examine them as they demonstrate the spine as biomechanical

machinery. If you examine your MRI or X-ray you should observe

above conditions. The way you can tell if one vertebra has moved

posterior over the one below is simple process. You apply a dot to

the posterior superior and inferior posterior margins of the

inferior vertebral body in lateral view. You extend a upward line

from the two dots. The line should strike the superior vertebra at

its inferior posterior border.

If the line strikes the superior body at point anterior to the

inferior posterior margin then the vertebra has moved posterior.

You obtain a measurement by measuring the Millimeter distance from

which the line strikes the body to the posterior inferior margin.

You reach 6 millimeters you are starting to talk American Medical

Association guidelines for a permanent impairment rating. I would

guess your L5 and L4 are probably at those levels.

Your next step is to get the facts on your lower back utilizing the

information I have outlined and report back. You do that and I will

then tell you how to biomechanically strengthen your back.

Scherger Chiropractor

Ridgefield WA USA

-- In Supertraining , " Eddie White "

wrote:

>

> As I age I seem to work harder and smarter but still injure

myself. I have enjoyed an almost indestructible back during most of

my power lifting career but last week while training for the AAU

World Meet in Orlando I managed to damage some disks in my lower

back. I was doing heavy box squats with 450 lbs of weight and

120llbs of bands. This is not an exceptional amount for me as I

have used much more. At any rate on my last set and rep I was

coming off the box and felt a pop and then the shooting pain all the

way into my left foot. Turns out I have 2 bulging disks and another

with some arthritus in it. Currently, my therapy includes the

spinal steroid shots and physical therapy. The doctor says I am not

a candidate for surgery and should heal.

>

> My question is: Have any of you had experience with someone in

similar circumstance and were they able to rehab to their former

selves without constantly injuring their back. Doctors where I live

think power lifters are crazy to put so much load on their spines.

I purchased a book called Ultimate Back Fitness and Performance by

Sturart McGill and I am attempting to read it order to design my own

rehab plan. Any help anyone could give me would be greatly

appreciated.

>

> Just a few particulars: I was training at 205 bodywt. and planned

to lift at 198. My peaking triples were 3/560 on squat, 3/385 on

bench, and 3/640 on deadlift. I was hoping for at least

600/415/705. My in injuries are at L-4 and L-5 and the disks are

pressing on the ciatic nerve. The shots have alleviated 60% of the

pain and I now can at least walk with a limp. I have taken two as

of yesterday and have a third to go then I start PT. I think any of

you who have done a sport all their lives can appreciate how

apprehensive I am at this point. If you can help or point me in the

right direction for more information, I will forever be in your debt.

>

> Eddie White

> Blue Springs, Mo.

>

October 12, 2007

Eddie,

I have studied Stuart McGill's works for several years and attended

a day long workshop with him last November. His Lower Back Disorder

text would be the place to start followed by Ulimate Back Fitness &

Performance. You have a serious back problem and it is going to take

time to work your way through it. The Lower Back Disorder book is

the foundation from which the Ultimate Back Fitness & Performance is

built and I feel it is necessary to truly understand

the " Performance " book. Left to your own devices and with just

the " Performance " book, you will more than likely jump into strength

exercises before the corrective work is done. Here are

McGill's " Stages of Patient Progression " :

1. Detect and correct perturbed motion and motor patterns.

2. Establish stability through (proper stability)exercises and

education.

3. Develop endurance.

4. Build strength.

5. Develop speed, power and agility.

Most individuals would start at step 4 which would be a serious

mistake. It takes a trained clinician who is well grounded in

McGill's approach to take you through steps 1 through 3.

Locally, I refer out to a friend who also happens to be a friend of

Stu and has appeared with him as a speaker at several events where

Stu was presenting. I know my friend could help you but finding

someone like him in your area may take some time and effort on your

part. Perhaps by contacting Stu's office, they might be able to

direct you to someone in your area.

If I can be of further assistance, let me know.

Rick Huse

CSCS, NSCA-CPT, RKC, FMS

Indianapolis, IN

October 12, 2007

Hi Eddie,

You have chosen a good book in McGills. Other people on this list have much

more experience in designing LBP rehab programs specifically for power

lifters, so I wont give you any advice in this post, but this following

article might be useful for you for some personal encouragement and to give

to your doctors.

Exert from research article - Relative safety of Weightlifting and Weight

Training by P. Hamill

36 Rowtown, Addlestone, Surrey, KT15 1HQ, United Kingdom

Reference Data Hamill, B.P.Relative safety of weightlifting and weight

training. J. Strength and CondoRes. 8(1):53-57.1994

Fitzgerald and McLatchie

(7), studying weightlifters and powerlifters, ages 24 to 49, observed that

degenerative osteoarthritis was half as frequent as in the population at

large. This is particularly striking since both groups squat, and

weightlifters squat to full knee flexion, an exercise frequently considered

dangerous. The sample was small and diverse.

There is no statistically convincing evidence in the scientific literature

that weightlifting or weight training are particularly hazardous. The

overwhelming impression from the surveys and literature is that both are

markedly safer than many other sports, certainly when supervised by

qualified people. Occasionally the literature describes injuries to

weightlifters and powerlifters, but weight training seems to be the more

common source of injury from resistance training.

====================

Chris

B Eastham BPhEd MAAESS AEP

THE OPEN DOOR

Personal Training & Home Fitness Club

St Kilda

ph 0420 532 522

chris@...

coming soon www.theopendoor.com.au

Original post

Posted by: " Eddie White "

<mailto:EWHITE@...?Subject=%20Re%3AInjury-%20Lower%20back>

EWHITE@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/ewhite1us> ewhite1us

Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:08 am (PST)

As I age I seem to work harder and smarter but still injure myself. I have

enjoyed an almost indestructible back during most of my power lifting career

but last week while training for the AAU World Meet in Orlando I managed to

damage some disks in my lower back. I was doing heavy box squats with 450

lbs of weight and 120llbs of bands. This is not an exceptional amount for me

as I have used much more. At any rate on my last set and rep I was coming

off the box and felt a pop and then the shooting pain all the way into my

left foot. Turns out I have 2 bulging disks and another with some arthritus

in it. Currently, my therapy includes the spinal steroid shots and physical

therapy. The doctor says I am not a candidate for surgery and should heal.

My question is: Have any of you had experience with someone in similar

circumstance and were they able to rehab to their former selves without

constantly injuring their back. Doctors where I live think power lifters are

crazy to put so much load on their spines. I purchased a book called

Ultimate Back Fitness and Performance by Sturart McGill and I am attempting

to read it order to design my own rehab plan. Any help anyone could give me

would be greatly appreciated.

Just a few particulars: I was training at 205 bodywt. and planned to lift at

198. My peaking triples were 3/560 on squat, 3/385 on bench, and 3/640 on

deadlift. I was hoping for at least 600/415/705. My in injuries are at L-4

and L-5 and the disks are pressing on the ciatic nerve. The shots have

alleviated 60% of the pain and I now can at least walk with a limp. I have

taken two as of yesterday and have a third to go then I start PT. I think

any of you who have done a sport all their lives can appreciate how

apprehensive I am at this point. If you can help or point me in the right

direction for more information, I will forever be in your debt.

================================

October 13, 2007

Regarding the following:

" Fitzgerald and McLatchie

(7), studying weightlifters and powerlifters, ages 24 to 49, observed that

degenerative osteoarthritis was half as frequent as in the population at

large. This is particularly striking since both groups squat, and

weightlifters squat to full knee flexion, an exercise frequently considered

dangerous. The sample was small and diverse. "

You have to be careful of incorrect inference and causality. It could be (but

it may not be) that the lifting is what protected them. What I mean it is

possible that through natural selection those who are successful lifters may be

less prone to degenerative osteoarthritis. If you tested sprinters you might

find that they are much stronger than marathoners in the bench press - but

concluding that sprinting helps the bench press would be an invalid conclusion.

Personally, I tend to believe that lifting with proper form does strengthen the

joints and back, but I have not data to support that contention.

Ed White

Sandwich, MA USA

Eastham wrote: Hi