Re: Travolta's Son Dies

[Guest guest]

I've seen a few more articles about this since this post appeared. I really have my doubts that this was an accident, though we will probably never find out the truth.

Travolta's Son DiesNew year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines.

[Guest guest]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01042009/news/nationalnews/avoidable_death_147077.htm

The health problems of tragic teen Jett Travolta would not have been properly treated unless his celebrity Scientologist parents had rejected their religion's theories on medicine, outraged experts said yesterday.

An autism activist, who spoke on the condition that her name not be revealed, said anti-seizure medication could have controlled the attacks that cops said Travolta's son was prone to suffering.

Police said Jett, 16, had a seizure Friday that led him to fall and hit his head on a bathtub in a Bahamas hotel.

It is not known if he was taking medication.

But the church to which his parents are devoted would have discouraged the use of any medication for the seizures that affect 25 percent of teen autistic suffers, said Scientology experts.

And his parents have repeatedly denied their son could have autism - an illness the church says doesn't exist.

"I believe this is something that was totally avoidable," said the autism activist, who asked not to be identified by name because she says she has a friendship with Travolta's brother, .

"There were such clear indications that this kid had autism," she said. "It's bothered me for years.

"The irony is not lost that has committed his life to working with autism and disabilities, and his brother, for religious reasons, would let this happen.

" tries to be as supportive of his brother's choices as he can be, but this has really upset me."

According to the Church of Scientology, people with disabilities like autism are classified as "degraded" and capable of curing themselves by working harder on the church's teachings.

Travolta and wife Preston repeatedly denied speculation that their son exhibited autistic symptoms.

Instead, they blamed their son's problems on a bout with Kawasaki syndrome as a toddler. The rare disease is characterized by high fever, skin rash and swelling of the lymph nodes. Left untreated the, illness can cause heart and circulation problems later in life.

Police believe a seizure led to Jett's fatal fall. The teen was found in a bathroom of the family's Bahamas vacation home Friday morning with a broken nose and smashed skull, cops said.

"The Travoltas as Scientologists - and very prominent Scientologists - would never consult a doctor to deal with the treatment of autism," said Rick Ross, a leading authority on the church.

"This child lived out his life without ever being evaluated or treated, in my opinion. The sad thing is, perhaps he could have been helped."

Jett's parents claimed to have treated his Kawasaki symptoms with a Scientology-prescribed course of "detoxification" - a regimen of diet and saunas that the church claims is purifying, but which Kawasaki specialist Dr. na Tremoulet has never heard of.

"I am not familiar with that therapy," she said yesterday. Standard treatment includes blood transfusions.

All medication - including anti-seizure drugs - are discouraged by the church, which believes drugs stockpile in the body over time and damage it, experts on the church said.

"The failure to give doctor-recommended drugs or medications to Jett might be considered to be a laudable Scientology ethics matter," said Pattinson, a former senior-level church member.

Calls for comment from the church were not returned yesterday.

Initial reports from police that Jett's body lay undiscovered in the bathroom for nearly 10 hours were challenged yesterday by Travolta's attorney, McDermott.

He said the teen was discovered within minutes by a nanny - whose screams brought Travolta sprinting from an upstairs bedroom.

The movie star tried desperately to resuscitate his son.

" did everything he could, but it appears it was too late," said a detective.

The Travoltas remained on Grand Bahama Island yesterday, surrounded by more than 50 friends, family and church members who had jetted in during the week for a two-day New Year's party scheduled to end today.

The celebrations, including a catamaran cruise, were canceled as the grieving family instead planned Jett's funeral.

adam.nichols@...New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines.

[Guest guest]

I think that Jett Travolta did have a right to reject medication.

However, if his parents made that decision, it was highly

irresponsible unless there was an overwhelming medical reason.

Religous freedom would include (read this sentence very carefully- the

wording is deliberate, although it had to be complex to attempt to

convey what I mean) freedom to reject treatment with a sound mind

based on religious beliefs (as extension to medical self-sovereignty),

but not the right to reject lifesaving treatment for someone else.

This in my mind provokes a memory of a court case where a divorced

father attempted to have his teenage son circumcised after converting

to Judaism over the concerns of his mother (I forgot the son's

position, or it might not have been mentioned in the articles).

[Guest guest]

Its true that we don't know if he had autism or not, but then he was never tested because Scientology doesn't believe the well-documented condition actually exists.

I think American specialists should be called in. Many of these islands depend on tourism and so have an interest in sweeping bad-things-happening-to-tourists under the rug. Just look at what they did with the Natalee Halloway case. I have had family take Carribbean cruises and a lot goes on the companies keep out of the media.

Still, this could have been an accident, but I think we will never know.

In a message dated 1/5/2009 11:30:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, no_reply writes:

I think this can go two ways. Either the boy did not have autism but the media is trying to drum up speculation to sell newspapers and get viewers to news shows, or else the media knows something we do not and they are right on target.Time will tell.Administrator New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines.

[Guest guest]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01042009/news/nationalnews/avoidable_death

_147077.htm

" The health problems of tragic teen Jett Travolta would not have been

properly treated unless his celebrity Scientologist parents had

rejected their religion's theories on medicine, outraged experts said

yesterday. "

No one yet knows for sure whether or not the boy had autism.

I do not know whether or not it is policy to call in someone from the

US when a foreign national dies in the Bahamas. It could be they have

done so because the death is suspicious.

I do know that when my friend fell off a cliff and died while

mountain climbing alone in new Zealand, no one was called in from the

US. The ME determined it was an accidental fall, had him creamated,

and returned the remains to his parents.

I am not willing to pass judgement until the medical examiners make

some kind of a determination.

I think this can go two ways. Either the boy did not have autism but

the media is trying to drum up speculation to sell newspapers and get

viewers to news shows, or else the media knows something we do not

and they are right on target.

Time will tell.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

wrote: " Its true that we don't know if he had autism or not,

but then he was never tested because Scientology doesn't believe the

well-documented condition actually exists ... <snip> ... "

True, however Kawasaki Disease does not present itself in such a way

as to be autism-like.

At the end of the video clip (see link below), you can see Travolta

walking in a crowd with his daughter, son and wife. Their 8-year-old

daughter appears much more capable in the crowd than the 16-year-old

son and Travolta is holding both his children's hands in the

same way ... firm grip that is usually reserved for keeping young

children safe. One does not generally hold their teenage son's hand

in such a fashion unless the child requires help in the given

situation.

http://ca.yahoo.com/s/834289

Untreated Kawasaki Disease, can -- but does not always -- lead to

vasculitis, which is an inflammation of the blood vessels and

arrhythmias, which are changes in the normal pattern of the

heartbeat. When treating Kawasaki Disease, the child is usually

given a high dose of aspirin to reduce the risk of heart problems

while also receiving intravenous doses of gamma globulin (purified

anti-bodies) which cures Kawasaki Disease within 10 days or the

beginning of this treatment.

I am neither claiming or denying that Jett Travolta had Autism. I am

saying that his physical appearance and the way in which

Travolta treated his son in public is not in keeping with Kawasaki

Disease but in keeping with something else which is not in evidence

at this point in time.

Raven

[Guest guest]

" Still, this could have been an accident, but I think we will never

know. "

I am convinced we will know, and very quickly too.

1) Seizures leave an imprint on brain chemistry for a certain period

after the seizure takes place. If it happened the way the Travoltas

say, he would have died with a freeze-frame picture of his brain

intact and ready for examination.

2) It also seems improbabe that he should be knocked out after a fall

and NOT recover even though he was in the bathtub.

The idea of splashing water on someone's face when trying to get them

to recover is because it sends a new sensation to the system and the

system -not immediately recognizing whether or not this new sensation

poses a threat or is safe- wakes up to identify the potential threat

and deal with it.

Assuming there was water in the tub, he should have recovered at some

point even if he was exhausted from a seizure...unless he fell really

really hard.

If he had just turned off the water and slipped and fell, one would

think that the coolness of evaporating water on his body would have

woken him up.

3) Very damning is this:

" Initial reports from police that Jett's body lay undiscovered in the

bathroom for nearly 10 hours were challenged yesterday by Travolta's

attorney, McDermott.

" He said the teen was discovered within minutes by a nanny - whose

screams brought Travolta sprinting from an upstairs bedroom. "

Assuming the teen was bathing...

If it was minutes, the body would be wet whether it was in or out of

the water.

If it was a half hour or an hour, the body would be wet if it were in

water, and if the body were out of the water, it MIGHT be wet, and

the skin would be moist. The roots of the hair on the scalp would be

moist too.

If it were hours, and the body was lying in water, the skin would be

puckered, especially around the fingers and toes.

If it were hours, and the body was NOT lying in water, the skin would

be very very dry.

4) Blood quickly pools at the lowest point on the body once

circulation ends, and so whatever way the body was would betray how

long it had been there. No blood = short duration. Lots of blood in

one area means long duration.

5) Then there are the tell-tale signs of rigormortis that normally

sets in after 10 hours. A cop is not a medical examiner, but

experienced cops would have seen enough deaths to be able to hazzard

a fairly accurate guess attime of death.

6)Body temperature and water temperature would tell a lot as well.

You can tell how long a corpse has been dead by how cool it is. If

the corpse was out of the water " a few minutes " and was already at

room temperature, then the teen had been dead more than " a few

minutes. " Hours in fact.

If the corpse was in the water, and the water was below body

temperature, the corpse would be above water temperature if the teen

just died. If the corpse had been there a long time, it would be at

water temperature. If BOTH the corpse and the water had been there a

long time, the lowest the water and the corpse could get would be

room temperature, and it takes a certain amount of time for both a

body and water to do that. All they would need to know is the weight

of the corpse and volume of water, and then do the science and math

associated with heat loss from bodies and from water.

The time of death, in other words, could be pinpointed almost

instantaneously even if the CAUSE of death could not. So it's a good

bet that the police and the medical examiner knew right away whether

or not the Travoltas were lying because if the story the Travoltas

tell does not correspond with the actual evidence at hand, there is

good reason to suspect a suspicious death.

From there, it is only a matter of time to determine whether it

really was a seizure, or some other form of death. Charges would

depend primarily on time of death. If it is determined that the child

had a seizure and could have been helped had he been checked on

earlier, they will be charged with neglect and some kind of

manslaughter charge. If it happened as they say, then it will simply

be a death due to accident.

If there was some other cause of death, such as blunt trauma, then it

would be a murder charge.

If there was some other cause of death, such as blunt trauma, and the

story does not correspond to the evidence, then it is a murder charge

with intent to deceive, lying to a police investigator, impeding an

investigation, etc.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

I said:

You can tell how long a corpse has been dead by how cool it is. If the corpse was out of the water "a few minutes" and was already at room temperature, then the teen had been dead more than "a few minutes." Hours in fact.If the corpse was in the water, and the water was below body temperature, the corpse would be above water temperature if the teen just died. If the corpse had been there a long time, it would be at water temperature. If BOTH the corpse and the water had been there a long time, the lowest the water and the corpse could get would be room temperature, and it takes a certain amount of time for both a body and water to do that. All they would need to know is the weight of the corpse and volume of water, and then do the science and mathassociated with heat loss from bodies and from water.The time of death, in other words, could be pinpointed almost instantaneously even if the CAUSE of death could not. So it's a good bet that the police and the medical examiner knew right away whether or not the Travoltas were lying because if the story the Travoltastell does not correspond with the actual evidence at hand, there is good reason to suspect a suspicious death.Just wanted to add:

You can also tell how long the corpse had been sitting there by water the temperature of the water was in the pipes.

Assuming the water was truned off:

If it was a cold shower or bath, the water would run cold.

If it is was a warm bath, the water the water in the tub would be as warm as the water in the pipes.

If it was a warm shower, the water would be warm and the corpse would be warm.

If it was a warm bath and the corpse was found after a little while, the water would run warm initially and run warmer as new water comes up from the water heater and then warm to whatever temperature the water ought to be depending on how high the "hot" water was turned up, but the intial warmth would be the same as the warmth of the water in the tub since the water would cool to room temperature no matter where the water was...unless the pipes were insulated.

Also, one needs to keep in mind that if the corpse was pulled from the tub, there would be water all over the floor, and evaporation would be seen on the tiles. But if such were not in abundant evidence, it would mean the corpse had been there long enough for the water to evaporate.

One could still estimate time of death by condensation on the mirrors, fixtures, and crome or lack thereof. If the child was drying himself, you could tell how long ago he dried himself by how wet the towels were.

Etc., etc., etc.

In short, there is NO WAY to CONCEAL time of death, and a person would have to work very hard to FAKE time of death and would probably be unsuccessful in the attempt to do so. Thus there is only ONE WAY that would legitimately show time of death and if the evidence is that time of death had not been faked or concealed, I don't see why there would be a need to call in a ME from the US unless there was suspicion about CAUSE of death.

So something is fishy any way you look at it.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

it IS documented that he had seizures. Also very well documented, dead

unmedicated epileptic scientologists in bathtubs.

Poor kid...

Kassiane

> From: environmental1st2003 <no_reply >

> Subject: Re: Travolta's Son Dies

> To: FAMSecretSociety

> Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 10:30 AM

>

>

> http://www.nypost.com/seven/01042009/news/nationalnews/avoidable_death

> _147077.htm

>

> " The health problems of tragic teen Jett Travolta

> would not have been

> properly treated unless his celebrity Scientologist parents

> had

> rejected their religion's theories on medicine,

> outraged experts said

> yesterday. "

>

> No one yet knows for sure whether or not the boy had

> autism.

>

> I do not know whether or not it is policy to call in

> someone from the

> US when a foreign national dies in the Bahamas. It could be

> they have

> done so because the death is suspicious.

>

> I do know that when my friend fell off a cliff and died

> while

> mountain climbing alone in new Zealand, no one was called

> in from the

> US. The ME determined it was an accidental fall, had him

> creamated,

> and returned the remains to his parents.

>

> I am not willing to pass judgement until the medical

> examiners make

> some kind of a determination.

>

> I think this can go two ways. Either the boy did not have

> autism but

> the media is trying to drum up speculation to sell

> newspapers and get

> viewers to news shows, or else the media knows something we

> do not

> and they are right on target.

>

> Time will tell.

>

>

> Administrator

[Guest guest]

wrote: " ... <snip> ... I do not know whether or not it is

policy to call in someone from the US when a foreign national dies in

the Bahamas. It could be they have done so because the death is

suspicious ... <snip> ... "

It was stated in yesterday's news articles that it is NOT policy to

have TWO coroners perform an autopsy and it is NOT policy for a US

coroner to be called in to collaborate with the Bahamian coroner.

The reason for calling in a second coroner and for ensuring that said

coroner is an American is to do away with the speculation and rumours

of wrongdoing that accompanied the autopsy done when

died in the Bahamas.

There were also rumours of wrongdoing and subterfuge with regards to

her 20-year-old son 's death in the Bahamas.

Because Travolta is a celebrity just as was a

celebrity, the Bahamian government wants to ensure that they are not

painted with the same ugly brush yet a third time hence the two

coroners required to do the autopsy.

Raven

[Guest guest]

There has been a personal complication related to this case.

Yesterday my mother brought up the subject after seeing some video of Jett shortly before he died. She made two telling comments.

1. That he looked more retarded than autistic, because he had that "look" about him.

2. That he looked calm and not wild and screaming, so he couldn't have been autistic.

This lead to a discussion about how only a percentage of autistics are wild like that. The rest can get like that SOMETIMES, which is called a meltdown.

Later on in the discussion, argument really, she mentions, again, that she doesn't think that I have Asperger's because I don't act like an autistic person.

So on and on it went until we got home and I could do other things.

It is an old argument. Because I'm high functioning and am not like Rain Man or those worst case kids on TV, I can't be autistic. Never mind the fact that I have two unofficial diagnosis and have participated in 2 university studies that BOTH say that I am. (neither were DNA tests because I don't want my DNA on some database if I can avoid it.) Its the same: never mind the sensory issues, the social problems, etc., etc.. because I don't act like Rain Man or sit in a corner grunting and growling, I can't be autistic.

Very annoying.

New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines.

[Guest guest]

This is a good point. When I first learned about AS, I ordered a number of books on the subject. The clinical ones weren't too interesting, but I found the autobiographical ones much more enlightening. Reading about what others went through and how similar it was to what I myself experienced really helped.

I did give my mother some of these books to read, but that was a mistake. Rather than learn anything, she simply picked things from the books to support her side of the argument. That side being that I wasn't autistic because of A, B, C, etc. She also overlooked things like most people with autism and AS are unemployed or underemployed and many never learn to drive.

Pretty much what I learned was to not even both to mention it to her anymore because she was too determined NOT to change her mind about anything. That's hardly surprising since many times I caught her in the act of doing something she shouldn't be and she bald-facedly either denies or justifies her actions with some silly rationale.

In a message dated 1/10/2009 12:27:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, no_reply writes:

3) They refuse to be educated because they are not interested in getting rid of their prejudice or ignorance. A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

[Guest guest]

This is why I very rarely tell anyone about my having AS. I've had people who liked me suddenly look at me like I was an alien or about to go Rain Man on them. I've told my business partners about it, but it didn't seem to affect their opinion of me, probably though it explained a few things actually. There are others I have no intention of telling. Mostly these are people in the neighborhood that I have known for a while but since they are inveterate gossips, they would have it blown all out of proportion and all over town in no time (as if they don't think I know things they have already said about me).

I am so sick and tired of hearing ignorant people talking out their ... hats .... about Autism while not bothering to educate themselves on the facts.RavenA Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

[Guest guest]

Yesterday my mother brought up the subject after seeing some video of Jett shortly before he died. She made two telling comments.

1. That he looked more retarded than autistic, because he had that "look" about him.

2. That he looked calm and not wild and screaming, so he couldn't have been autistic.

This lead to a discussion about how only a percentage of autistics are wild like that. The rest can get like that SOMETIMES, which is called a meltdown.

Later on in the discussion, argument really, she mentions, again, that she doesn't think that I have Asperger's because I don't act like an autistic person.

So on and on it went until we got home and I could do other things.

It is an old argument. Because I'm high functioning and am not like Rain Man or those worst case kids on TV, I can't be autistic. Never mind the fact that I have two unofficial diagnosis and have participated in 2 university studies that BOTH say that I am. (neither were DNA tests because I don't want my DNA on some database if I can avoid it.) Its the same: never mind the sensory issues, the social problems, etc., etc.. because I don't act like Rain Man or sit in a corner grunting and growling, I can't be autistic.

Very annoying.

At first I used to believe my parents were just stubborn in refusing to believe that my diagnosis is real, but then I realized three things:

1) They are just as prejudiced as anyone else in the world and

2) They are just as ignorant.

3) They refuse to be educated because they are not interested in getting rid of their prejudice or ignorance.

Remember that Raven and I have produced more than a dozen podcasts on autism spectrum disorders and that we are linked to by over 500 organizations. Many times organizations contact US and ASK to link, or they compliment us on the reliability of the factual information we provide, etc. I have recieved correspondance from Tony Attwood to this effect. Many believe these podcasts are informative, superlative, and accurate, yet my mother is convinced that she knows more about autism and AS than I do because she casually browsed through the OASIS website for two hours.

The site owner put her in contact with someone who had a kid with AS and they BOTH agreed that their kids could not have AS because neither looked or acted weird. Coincidentally, this other parent was a member of the Family Forum who wound up quitting because none of the Aspies in there who were running it knew anything about AS in her opinion. Later on my sister was diagnosed AS, (although she now denies her diagnosis. What happened was that she went through a thorough and systematic diagnostic process where it was determined that in addition to OCD, she had AS for sure. Then later on she went to another shribk who casually remarked that she might not have AS, and so she has denied her diagnosis ever since.) My mother at first thought my sister was making it up, then believed it, feeling betrayed that the OASIS site which had led her to believe -somehow- that Aspies were like Rainman light, and she also then believed that this friend she was corresponding with was lying to her about her kid and that ALL Aspies must look normal and act normal and that the media portrays them as blithering idiots. But then my sister rejected her own diagnosis, so my mother resumed her first prejudiced. That if my sister didn't have it, then I could not either, because neither of us looked or acted weird. She resumed her friendship with the other parent and her faith in the OASIS website was restored.

So this is what we are dealing with, and I would recommend to anyone reading this that the way my mom and 's mom think are really no different that the way your parents think about YOU either to your face or behind your back. And it's also how your average everyday NT think about you.

I never knew my mother felt this way about me until I accidentally overheard her talking on the phone a few times with her sisters and friends. I then made it a point to keep an ear open for further input. I am now of the opinion that she thinks I have some sort of mania where I believe that I have AS but actually do not and that I really do not know what I am talking about anyway because whatever research I come up with seldom corresponds to what she can find on the OASIS website, etc.

Both my parents have always been this way. They really do not care about the MIC project or how many inroads we have made with both the autistic and research communities. My dad simply does not care about the AS diagnosis.

With my mother, it is a different story. I can remember when I told her about my e-mailswith Tony Attwood or my ongoing e-mail correspondance with Donna . None of that impressed her then and none of it impresses her now because for the 8 years I have been diagnosed, she's never heard of them nor bothered to find out who these people are. She HAS seen Temple Grandin on TV where she has mentioned that she is now cured of autism, and my mother has recognized her as a leading authority now and -when drunk- often inquires why I am not doing anything to treat or cure my autism like my sister might have done assuming she ever had it in the first place. She also believes that McCarthy is a powerful spokesperson for autism and so is Autism Speaks, which has commercials that appear on TV now and then. She has even suggested donating to them from time to time. When I explain what they stand for and why donating to them is a bad idea, she tells me that my opinion is obviously skewed because I have a warped and uneducated view of autism and have not gathered all the information she has about it via looking at the OASIS website for two hours like she has.

She tells me there are things such as medication, O2 (oxygen) therapy/hyperbaric chambers, chelation therapy, etc. which can treat the effects of AS and cure my AS, and that these things MUST be approved by the AMA, and approved by the FDA and CDC for treating autism, otherwise they would be banned wouldn't they?

So you are not alone . And rest assured, when I draft the podcasts, it's people like your mother and my mother that I keep in mind as a target audience when I write. I usually address their core superstitions, their core misbeliefs, and their core sources of misinformation and trounce them or combat them with recognized research.

The one drawback to this is that my mother stopped listening to them because the podcasts seemed "too educational" and therefore "too difficult" to understand. But then, she was a high school dropout who did not get her GED until I was ten years old.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

wrote: " ... <snip> ... never mind the sensory issues, the

social problems, etc., etc.. because I don't act like Rain Man or sit

in a corner grunting and growling, I can't be autistic. Very

annoying ... <snip> ... "

I can empathize with how you feel, . I cannot stand when a

doctor in ER jots down on Cub's file something along the lines

of " Mother claims child has AS. No signs evident. " On one occasion,

the comment was followed by " Mother obviously has issues. Possibly

borderline personality disorder. "

Excuse me? I can provide the names and dates of the AS diagnosis

(Cub was tested and re-tested, diagnosed and diagnosis re-confirmed

more than once by licensed accredited medical professionals with a

focus on Autism Spectrum Disorders) but because some HOSPITALIST who

is not even a SPECIALIST in the area of ASDs says he doesn't see Rain

Man in Cub, then *I* am the one with a mental disorder?

I am so sick and tired of hearing ignorant people talking out

their ... hats .... about Autism while not bothering to educate

themselves on the facts.

Raven

[Guest guest]

This is very true.

My mother picked a few things from the books and watched my behavior and so learned a few buttons she could almost always push.

But this also holds true in many other situations. Kids are vicious about this, learning secrets from friends and later turning on them and using those same secrets as sharp knives. Adults too, though they call it politics.

Hi;this may sound paranoid, but sometimes insight into a person can be used as a weapon against them, or others might 'hear' what they want to hear about us. New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines.

[Guest guest]

Mine does know about Mcarthy or Autism Speaks, though she probably has seen their commercials. Still, she won't listen when I try to explain why some noises drive my crazy so quickly or why I can't wear certain kinds of cloth because it hurts.

Her favorite thing those is that I don't like to eat out. She likes to hammer that it is because I don't want to be seen out with her or something like that. In truth it is because I look at people's mouths and not their eyes. That makes being in a room full of people eating extremely disgusting and usually kill my appetite in short order, unless I keep my eyes on my own plate and look up as little as possible.

In a message dated 1/10/2009 6:43:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, no_reply writes:

My mother is the same way, and she attributes my attempts to argue with her to pure stubbornness. She also scorns anyone or any source that agrees with my opinion. New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines.

[Guest guest]

I think in this case it is because they have worked with my family for over 50 years. My great grandfather put their father through college to be his forester. That father personally knew my great grandmother, who was very likely AS. They also knew my grandmother, who many or may not have been AS but certainly WAS a character, and also my uncle, who was very much like me, so almost certainly was AS. Some of my other cousins show AS traits and these people know them as well.

That's what I meant when I said my Dx probably explained a lot. So, they've seen all this for some time, but never had a name for it. They might say a few things in jest about me like they do one of my cousin who really is a strange one, but I'm sure it would be nothing bad.

Even if they do think less of me, so long as they keep doing good work and don't say anything to my face, we'll get along fine.

In a message dated 1/10/2009 6:45:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, no_reply writes:

They probably do not want to lose your business relationships. When I worked in offices, people were polite to my face, but there were plenty of times I overheard people talking about me behind my back when they did not know I was in the storeroom with them, or when I was standing just outside the lunchroom door about to go in.AdministratorNew year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines.

[Guest guest]

Hi;

this may sound paranoid, but sometimes insight into a person can be used as a

weapon against them, or others might 'hear' what they want to hear about us.

(Two examples from my own past:

When I foolishly told my mom that I had been to counseling, she later said I was

no different than before. (I had gone to counseling for my own benefit, to learn

to survive amongst my fellow humans)

Years later I was considering becoming part of a small church that was new to

our city, I communicated with the presiding clergy-man, telling him a bit about

myself, my church background, and self; including that I am an eccentric and an

extreme introvert, and that I was concerned if I would be Ok that church; he

naively said yes. However, later he told me I was unfriendly etc etc. Someone

neutral said maybe this clergy-person heard what he wanted to, about my

experience, and maybe he had never met an extreme introvert before.

I had been in another small church a few years before, a different setting,

multi ethnic, a dwindling congregation, and I was accepted as an

introvert/eccentric, I was there a year and a half until the congregation

decided to dis-band)

I realize many of us want to accept others for who they are, and to be accepted,

however....

as one of the characters in Zenna 's novel " The People " said,

" different is dead. "

These novels are composed of short stories about the history of a group of

aliens who crash on earth, they were widely separated as their small ships

escaped the crash of the mother ship. These aliens were very peaceful,

philosophical, and possessed abilities, that would be considered ESP.

This was during the settlement by white men of North American continent. Some

assimilate into human culture, adapting superficially, but still keeping their

abilities a secret from most earth-humans. Others are persecuted and murdered,

as they are considered freaks or witches; Some survive by denying their past and

their abilities, even their history was suppressed in each succeeding

generation.

When the stories told of the present day, the different groups of 'the people'

were trying to find each other and help the ones who had denied their history

learn how to survive without suppressing who they really were. (sometimes with

the help of earth-humans who were very accepting)

Please be aware I am not saying anyone who is different should never tell other

people, just that sometimes we might tell some one and they won't accept who we

are.

I have to go, I am at a public access computer and the office is closing soon.

renaissanzelady

>

> Subject: Re: Re: Travolta's Son Dies

> To: FAMSecretSociety

> Received: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 2:34 PM

>

>

> I did give my mother some of these books to read, but that

> was a mistake.

> Rather than learn anything, she simply picked things from

> the books to support

> her side of the argument. That side being that I wasn't

> autistic because of A,

> B, C, etc. She also overlooked things like most people

> with autism and AS

> are unemployed or underemployed and many never learn to

> drive.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> In a message dated 1/10/2009 12:27:20 P.M. Eastern Standard

> Time,

> no_reply writes:

>

> 3) They refuse to be educated because they are not

> interested in getting rid

> of their prejudice or ignorance.

>

> **************

__________________________________________________________________

Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your

favourite sites. Download it now at

http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.

[Guest guest]

" I did give my mother some of these books to read, but that was a

mistake. Rather than learn anything, she simply picked things from

the books to support her side of the argument. That side being that I

wasn't autistic because of A, B, C, etc. She also overlooked things

like most people with autism and AS are unemployed or underemployed

and many never learn to drive.

" Pretty much what I learned was to not even both to mention it to her

anymore because she was too determined NOT to change her mind about

anything. "

My mother is the same way, and she attributes my attempts to argue

with her to pure stubbornness. She also scorns anyone or any source

that agrees with my opinion.

If I cite a book by Simon Baron-Cohen, Professor of Developmental

Psychopathology at the University of Cambridge and Fellow at Trinity

College who holds degrees in Human Sciences from New College, Oxford,

a PhD in Psychology from UCL, and an M.Phil in Clinical Psychology at

the Institute of Psychiatry and who held lectureships in both of

these departments in London before moving to Cambridge in 1994 and

who is also Director of CLASS (Cambridge Lifespan Asperger Syndrome

Service), a clinic for adults with suspected AS....

And if I should point out that he is author of Mindblindness (MIT

Press, 1995), The Essential Difference: Men, Women and the Extreme

Male Brain (Penguin UK/Basic Books, 2003), and Prenatal Testosterone

in Mind (MIT Press, 2005), and that he has edited a number of

scholarly anthologies, including Understanding Other Minds (OUP,

1993, 2001), The Maladapted Mind (Erlbaum, 1997) and Synaesthesia

(Blackwells, 1997) and that he has also written books for parents and

teachers such as Autism: The Facts (OUP, 1993), Tourette Syndrome:

The Facts (OUP, 1998), and Teaching children with autism to mind read

(Wiley, 1998) and that he is the author of the DVD-ROM Mind Reading:

an interactive guide to emotions ( Kingsley Ltd, 2003) that

was nominated for a BAFTA award for Best Off-Line Learning....

And if I mention that he has been awarded prizes from the American

Psychological Association, the British Association for the

Advancement of Science (BA), and the British Psychological Society

(BPS) for his research into autism and that for 2007 he was President

of the Psychology Section of the BA, Vice President of the National

Autistic Society, and received the 2006 Presidents' Award for

Distinguished Contributions to Psychological Knowledge from the BPS

and that his current research is testing the 'extreme male brain'

theory of autism at the neural, endocrine and genetic levels....

She will respond that because she never heard of him, he must mot

know what he is talking about and that CLEARLY McCarthy DOES

know what she is talking about or else this Cohen guy would be as

well known as McCarthy.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

" I've told my business partners about it, but it didn't seem to affect

their opinion of me, probably though it explained a few things

actually. "

They probably do not want to lose your business relationships. When I

worked in offices, people were polite to my face, but there were plenty

of times I overheard people talking about me behind my back when they

did not know I was in the storeroom with them, or when I was standing

just outside the lunchroom door about to go in.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

" Please be aware I am not saying anyone who is different should never

tell other people, just that sometimes we might tell some one and they

won't accept who we are. "

That happens all the time.

Most people are not interested in learning WHY someone is different.

They are just interested in doing the classification.

Administrator

[Guest guest]

My mom was unfortunately the same about me being transexual, but

unusually she tried to pin all the blame on Asperger's syndrome and

puberty. It got kindof ridiculous at times, especially when she seemed

to think denial of information could change my mind.

Honestly, it seems that my grandparents on my mother's side may have a

touch of AS, especially my grandfather. The irony is that in

personality I definitely took more from Mom and her side of the family

more than Dad.

[Guest guest]

>

> I can empathize with how you feel, . I cannot stand when a

> doctor in ER jots down on Cub's file something along the lines

> of " Mother claims child has AS. No signs evident. " On one

occasion,

> the comment was followed by " Mother obviously has issues. Possibly

> borderline personality disorder. "

>

> Excuse me? I can provide the names and dates of the AS diagnosis

> (Cub was tested and re-tested, diagnosed and diagnosis re-confirmed

> more than once by licensed accredited medical professionals with a

> focus on Autism Spectrum Disorders) but because some HOSPITALIST

who

> is not even a SPECIALIST in the area of ASDs says he doesn't see

Rain

> Man in Cub, then *I* am the one with a mental disorder?

>

> I am so sick and tired of hearing ignorant people talking out

> their ... hats .... about Autism while not bothering to educate

> themselves on the facts.

>

> Raven

>

Raven I can't believe the state of doctors and their treatment of

people. People become dactors (for the most part for money) and to

lord over other's their largesse. Please try to put them out of your

mind. I have had similar experiences but yours is most troubling, as

your child is medically dependant.

I know it isn't in your plans but if you wanted to visit the US for

medical treatment (my house is open and empty) mimi

[Guest guest]

>

>

> That's what I meant when I said my Dx probably explained a lot. So,

they've

> seen all this for some time, but never had a name for it. They

might say a few

> things in jest about me like they do one of my cousin who really

is a

> strange one, but I'm sure it would be nothing bad.

>

> Even if they do think less of me, so long as they keep doing good

work and

> don't say anything to my face, we'll get along fine.

>

>

>

>

I am sure that your character speaks for itself and that your

families sense of right and community responsibility, are traits that

grateful people remember. AS is not leperesy (we all know that

often, as produces the best in human behavior) Lack of lying or being

poor liars, good if a routine is established (it will be followed)

Good researchers, engineers, programers. good at quiet work. The

list goes on. Many people recognise the ValuE of those traits. The

biggest problem is that there will always be jealous people with low

self esteem that use AS people to make themselves feel greater, and

more important. Personally I stay inside