Re: for EW Re: TEACHING - WHAT THEY TEACH YOU - off topic

[Guest guest]

Carolyn, I had -- 6? 8? classes in 'classroom management' - the problem is

administration and the definition of 'assault' and 'self defense' and PROVING it

in a court of law.  I taught teachers, and the problem is that kids know you

1)can't touch them, 2) can't threaten them 3) only the administration can call

cops or give out discipline.  If a kid says 'no' - is that a threat to you or

others?  'sit in your seat! " -- " NO! "   -- " Go to the Office! " -- 'NO! " - OK --

where's the danger to others?  you can't leave the classroom.  That's both

illegal AND it places students in danger, and if a kid hurts himself, it's YOUR

fault - if a student is sent to the hospital by the action of another student

while you are our of the room -- YOU are responsible for the cost - thus

'professional' insurance. 

People say it's the teachers - trust me - I USED to believe in 'parent

involvement' -- no more.  I put in my 7 years of K-12 got my doctorate in

special ed, more masters in things I enjoyed -- and taught teachers cool stuff -

but would NEVER set foot in an El-Ed class room again -- AND I'd trade my

university income for the income of an El-Ed teacher any day of the week --

really - we make WAY too much and they make nothing - and retire with nothing.

It's not the teachers, it's not the kids.  It's the parents and how they cow

the administration with threats of suits - I have my 'two hears and a star' as

every Corpsman does - it's our 'inside joke'.  I took more injuries in the

hallway of a high school than I took in nearly 4 years in 'Nam.  Why?  Because

here you have to have 'evidence'  - and my first wound here was a blade in the

shoulder before I put my knee on the students throat - and *I* was nearly

suspended because the knife was tossed into the crowd of students and

disappeared.  ONE witness who would not testify said he saw me 'stabbed' but

wasn't sure who -- or he might have been killed.  Why me?  Because I would not

tolerate weapons on campus and other teachers did because they knew what would

happen if they tried to disarm a student.

The long story short is the gangs and I had a 'truce' -- black, brown, yellow

and white gangs - all ended up respecting me because -- yeah, I returned the

weapons I took away -- knives in two weeks, firearms in pieces over two weeks,

without cartridges and disassembled mags.  It's now I lived, and my car was

only trashed twice in the first year at one school I was at for three years.  

At least they learned how to field strip and clean a sidearm.  Or sharpen a

knife - and I lived to disarm other students.  

so Teachers learn the subject matter, they learn 'classroom management' but they

DON'T learn how to disarm students and disobey the law and commit felony crimes

to stay alive.  Or Ag Teacher was gang-raped on a weekend when she came in to

take care of the 'school garden' -- and Administration blamed her - and then

denied her leave.  Then denied her time off or disability - and refused to give

her a good recommendation - it took her 9 -- NINE -- years to get the district

to settle with her.

Wonder why we don't have 'good teachers'? -- I have to leave now, I'm angry at

what we pay our teachers, how we treat them, how we blame them and how a 3d

grade teacher makes $32K a year and her vice principal starts at $85K a year and

has life time medical after 5 years and she has medicare after 45. And tops out

at $43K + 25 years + a masters degree. I need a walk and some target practice. 

sorry.

 

Dream Well. Travel Well.  May you Walk Your Path in Beauty.

" Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. " Carl Sagan.

>________________________________

>

>To: " sproutpeople " <sproutpeople >

>Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2012 6:18 PM

>Subject: Re: for EW Re: EW!! How did your presentation

go?

>

>

> 

>Too bad she didn't tell him to go to the office, please.  He might have left

and she might have had a nice time.  Didn't have cell phones then.  Could call

the police on him now, though the principal probably would have done that. 

They still don't teach too much about discipline and assertive discipline in

college.  There should be classes required as that is one of the biggest

problems in school today, it is not teaching.  It is getting the kids to behave

so they can be taught.

>

>Carolyn Wilkerson

>

> 

>

>

>________________________________

>

>To: sproutpeople

>Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2012 8:34 PM

>Subject: for EW Re: EW!! How did your presentation go?

>

>

> 

>

>Since you are talking about teaching I must tell you a true story about a

friend of mine. This happened 43 years ago. She just graduated college and began

her FIRST DAY AS A TEACHER. They assigned her a high school.

>

>She was 23 years old. Can you imagine, a young woman of 23 in a room with

teenagers? She was in that class for 5 minutes. 5 MINUTES!!

>

>A VERY TALL teenage boy stood up, looked her in the eye, picked up a typewriter

and threw it against the window and out the window shattering everything. He

then looked at her and said " Now what are you going to do?? "

>

>She walked out, came home, never went back and became a librarian. When she

told me the story I absolutely could not believe this happened to her.

>

>It did.

>

>Melody

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree that parents and hen administrators who won't enforce the rules are the

big problem.  Teachers are not.  However, there are also some nonconfrontive

ways to deal with students.  In some special needs classes (where more injuries

to teachers and assistants takes place) should be and usually are trained on how

to take down a student safely and also how not to push a kid into a corner where

they are likely to lash out.  Sometimes kids have to have some space and to be

given some options as to choices, acceptable choices and not pushed.  Some kids

get emotional if hey are backed into corners and you don't follow them into

corners.  I sure learned a lot working with teachers in different schools and

different situations.  I usually saw the problems as people didn't call me when

things were going well.  I have been in schools where police were in the halls

and where there were locked doors and metal detectors at the main door.  It

wasn't

teachers who needed to have metal detectors.  And the NCLB and tests were a

fiasco.  That dumbed down education and caused opposite problem it was supposed

to prevent.  Was a ruse to destroy unions so they could fire any teacher

anytime they wanted rather than being fair.  Tenure does not save all jobs. If

a teacher is lousy and they give them instructions as to what has to be done,

they pay for remedial work, they let a mentor help them and they view others

classes, and they don't improve, nothing can keep them from being fired.  Just

have to do it right if here is a real problem.  But there are poor

administrators who don't do their jobs.  There isn't that much difference from

one state to another, except for the money the states set aside for schools. 

North is usually better in supporting schools.  I used to work in the north. 

 

 I won't put anymore comments on this issue as i came here to learn about

sprouting. And my sprouts are looking better now that I put new ones out. I am

hoping to get some good alfalfa sprous in a couple of days and then I'll try

something else. I am thrilled to learn about people putting out seeds to grow

and then cutting the tops for food.  I hadn't thought of that before.  I don't

have much space but sure is nice idea.

 

 

Carolyn Wilkerson

 

________________________________

To: " sproutpeople " <sproutpeople >

Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 7:32 PM

Subject: Re: for EW Re: TEACHING - WHAT THEY TEACH YOU -

off topic

 

Carolyn, I had -- 6? 8? classes in 'classroom management' - the problem is

administration and the definition of 'assault' and 'self defense' and PROVING it

in a court of law.  I taught teachers, and the problem is that kids know you

1)can't touch them, 2) can't threaten them 3) only the administration can call

cops or give out discipline.  If a kid says 'no' - is that a threat to you or

others?  'sit in your seat! " -- " NO! "   -- " Go to the Office! " -- 'NO! " - OK --

where's the danger to others?  you can't leave the classroom.  That's both

illegal AND it places students in danger, and if a kid hurts himself, it's YOUR

fault - if a student is sent to the hospital by the action of another student

while you are our of the room -- YOU are responsible for the cost - thus

'professional' insurance. 

People say it's the teachers - trust me - I USED to believe in 'parent

involvement' -- no more.  I put in my 7 years of K-12 got my doctorate in

special ed, more masters in things I enjoyed -- and taught teachers cool stuff -

but would NEVER set foot in an El-Ed class room again -- AND I'd trade my

university income for the income of an El-Ed teacher any day of the week --

really - we make WAY too much and they make nothing - and retire with nothing.

It's not the teachers, it's not the kids.  It's the parents and how they cow

the administration with threats of suits - I have my 'two hears and a star' as

every Corpsman does - it's our 'inside joke'.  I took more injuries in the

hallway of a high school than I took in nearly 4 years in 'Nam.  Why?  Because

here you have to have 'evidence'  - and my first wound here was a blade in the

shoulder before I put my knee on the students throat - and *I* was nearly

suspended because the knife was tossed into the crowd of students and

disappeared.  ONE witness who would not testify said he saw me 'stabbed' but

wasn't sure who -- or he might have been killed.  Why me?  Because I would not

tolerate weapons on campus and other teachers did because they knew what would

happen if they tried to disarm a student.

The long story short is the gangs and I had a 'truce' -- black, brown, yellow

and white gangs - all ended up respecting me because -- yeah, I returned the

weapons I took away -- knives in two weeks, firearms in pieces over two weeks,

without cartridges and disassembled mags.  It's now I lived, and my car was

only trashed twice in the first year at one school I was at for three years.  

At least they learned how to field strip and clean a sidearm.  Or sharpen a

knife - and I lived to disarm other students.  

so Teachers learn the subject matter, they learn 'classroom management' but they

DON'T learn how to disarm students and disobey the law and commit felony crimes

to stay alive.  Or Ag Teacher was gang-raped on a weekend when she came in to

take care of the 'school garden' -- and Administration blamed her - and then

denied her leave.  Then denied her time off or disability - and refused to give

her a good recommendation - it took her 9 -- NINE -- years to get the district

to settle with her.

Wonder why we don't have 'good teachers'? -- I have to leave now, I'm angry at

what we pay our teachers, how we treat them, how we blame them and how a 3d

grade teacher makes $32K a year and her vice principal starts at $85K a year and

has life time medical after 5 years and she has medicare after 45. And tops out

at $43K + 25 years + a masters degree. I need a walk and some target practice. 

sorry.

 

Dream Well. Travel Well.  May you Walk Your Path in Beauty.

" Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. " Carl Sagan.

>________________________________

>

>To: " sproutpeople " <sproutpeople >

>Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2012 6:18 PM

>Subject: Re: for EW Re: EW!! How did your presentation

go?

>

>

> 

>Too bad she didn't tell him to go to the office, please.  He might have left

and she might have had a nice time.  Didn't have cell phones then.  Could call

the police on him now, though the principal probably would have done that. 

They still don't teach too much about discipline and assertive discipline in

college.  There should be classes required as that is one of the biggest

problems in school today, it is not teaching.  It is getting the kids to behave

so they can be taught.

>

>Carolyn Wilkerson

>

> 

>

>

>________________________________

>

>To: sproutpeople

>Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2012 8:34 PM

>Subject: for EW Re: EW!! How did your presentation go?

>

>

> 

>

>Since you are talking about teaching I must tell you a true story about a

friend of mine. This happened 43 years ago. She just graduated college and began

her FIRST DAY AS A TEACHER. They assigned her a high school.

>

>She was 23 years old. Can you imagine, a young woman of 23 in a room with

teenagers? She was in that class for 5 minutes. 5 MINUTES!!

>

>A VERY TALL teenage boy stood up, looked her in the eye, picked up a typewriter

and threw it against the window and out the window shattering everything. He

then looked at her and said " Now what are you going to do?? "

>

>She walked out, came home, never went back and became a librarian. When she

told me the story I absolutely could not believe this happened to her.

>

>It did.

>

>Melody

>

>