Re: Hiding veiny arms and legs

[Guest guest]

I have severe fat loss in my arms and legs from the use of Zerit.I live in a beach town and can never wear shorts. I was wondering if Bio-Alcamid can be used on the legs and arms to help hide my veins?I feel like a 39 year old freak.Bill

Bill: I have never seen Bio Alcamid used for that application, but you may want to ask them. Dr Serra in Brazil treats it with PMMA,as shown by the file I sent last week

VergelDirectorProgram for Wellness Restoration, PoWeRA 501 © 3 non profit national organizationLinks to our web sites:www.nelsonvergel.comwww.powerusa.orgwww.facialwasting.orgwww.salvagetherapies.orgJoin our free listservers by sending a blank email to:pozhealth-subscribe fuzeonsupport-subscribe DisclaimerThis information (and any accompanying printed material) is not intended to replace the attention or advice of a physician or other health care professional. Anyone who wishes to embark on any dietary, drug, exercise, or other lifestyle change intended to prevent or treat a specific disease or condition should first consult with and seek clearance from a qualified health care professional.

[Guest guest]

At 06:05 PM 12/14/2004, you wrote:

>I have severe fat loss in my arms and legs from the use of Zerit.

>

>I live in a beach town and can never wear shorts. I was wondering

>if Bio-Alcamid can be used on the legs and arms to help hide my

>veins?

I don't know. It might be possible.

I'm a little worried by a trend I see on this list. The majority of posts

here are about facial fillers and the like.

On the one hand, this is GOOD. It is 100% no question that addressing our

appearance is very important to self-esteem, reducing depression that might

arise, etc. This has important effects on overall health (e.g., specific

practices of " applied " psychoneuroimmunology, impact of reducing depression

on the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis, etc.)

Let's look at the underlying problems. Recognizing d4T/stavudine (Zerit) as

a proximate cause of a lot of peripheral wasting is important.

But what is causing the damage to adipocytes? And are there ways to offset

that--and/or to help gradually improve adipocyte biology? Can agents that

restore mitochondrial viability help in recovery? Or are they a waste of money?

Does more comprehensive evaluation and management of endocrine disruption

help to offset various aspects of lipoatrophy? What is the role of

testosterone?

How can we assure appropriate management of other aspects such as

hypercholesteremia, neuropathy, pancreatitis, lactic acidosis and

hepatotoxicity? How can we improve gut function to assure adequate nutrient

intake and offset depletion?

What is the role and value of agents such as N-acetylcysteine, alpha lipoic

acid, a multivitamin, carnitine, glutamine? What botanical agents may be of

help? Should these be evaluated in clinical trials?

I hope some discussion will arise about how to address the INTERNAL effects

of lipodystrophy as well as the continued and important discussion of

external approaches.

M.

[Guest guest]

>I live in a beach town and can never wear shorts. I was wondering>if Bio-Alcamid can be used on the legs and arms to help hide my>veins?I don't know. It might be possible.I'm a little worried by a trend I see on this list. The majority of posts here are about facial fillers and the like.On the one hand, this is GOOD. It is 100% no question that addressing our appearance is very important to self-esteem, reducing depression that might arise, etc. This has important effects on overall health (e.g., specific practices of "applied" psychoneuroimmunology, impact of reducing depression on the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis, etc.)Let's look at the underlying problems. Recognizing d4T/stavudine (Zerit) as a proximate cause of a lot of peripheral wasting is important.But what is causing the damage to adipocytes? And are there ways to offset that--and/or to help gradually improve adipocyte biology? Can agents that restore mitochondrial viability help in recovery? Or are they a waste of money?Does more comprehensive evaluation and management of endocrine disruption help to offset various aspects of lipoatrophy? What is the role of testosterone?How can we assure appropriate management of other aspects such as hypercholesteremia, neuropathy, pancreatitis, lactic acidosis and hepatotoxicity? How can we improve gut function to assure adequate nutrient intake and offset depletion?What is the role and value of agents such as N-acetylcysteine, alpha lipoic acid, a multivitamin, carnitine, glutamine? What botanical agents may be of help? Should these be evaluated in clinical trials?I hope some discussion will arise about how to address the INTERNAL effects of lipodystrophy as well as the continued and important discussion of external approaches. M.

to the plain layman like myself this post makes no sense it might make sense to a dr. Could you please write in language that the rest of us can understand?

Thanks a million

FRANK

[Guest guest]

I experienced the very veiny look in both arms and legs for a couple

of years back in late 90s. I cant remember when it happened or what

drugs and vitamins I was taking but veins are back to normal. It isnt

real cool at the beach. I looked like a junkie. Several of my

friends,who didnt know my status,commented that I looked like I had

aids.

>

>

> I have severe fat loss in my arms and legs from the use of Zerit.

>

> I live in a beach town and can never wear shorts. I was wondering

> if Bio-Alcamid can be used on the legs and arms to help hide my

> veins?

>

> I feel like a 39 year old freak.

>

> Bill

[Guest guest]

I appreciate you sharing your files and informationwith the group but still waiting for the before andafter pictures of actual patients treated with PMMA byDr. Serra in Brazil. Are you and Dr.Serra willing toshare those pic's with the group?

I loaded a file a few days ago with his pics in this group. Is anyone getting the emails notifying when I load a file up?

Here is the link. It is an adobe acrobat file (you need adobe acrobat reader, free upload at

http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html)

Here are the pics . I warn you, they are very graphic, so if you cannot handle graphic pics, so not open them

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/QAjBQbTde_GNk2rtTXkgvW7PrMBYpR3CfsGkaYo4OHJUNzshv7qf1N_o_TE8_E3Brdi30Sq5X_MmpDBZZGiB/Lipoatrophy.

VergelDirectorProgram for Wellness Restoration, PoWeRA 501 © 3 non profit national organizationLinks to our web sites:www.nelsonvergel.comwww.powerusa.orgwww.facialwasting.orgwww.salvagetherapies.orgJoin our free listservers by sending a blank email to:pozhealth-subscribe fuzeonsupport-subscribe DisclaimerThis information (and any accompanying printed material) is not intended to replace the attention or advice of a physician or other health care professional. Anyone who wishes to embark on any dietary, drug, exercise, or other lifestyle change intended to prevent or treat a specific disease or condition should first consult with and seek clearance from a qualified health care professional.

[Guest guest]

--- PoWeRTX@... wrote:

> Bill: I have never seen Bio Alcamid used for that

> application, but you may

> want to ask them. Dr Serra in Brazil treats it with

> PMMA,as shown by the file

> I sent last week

I appreciate you sharing your files and information

with the group but still waiting for the before and

after pictures of actual patients treated with PMMA by

Dr. Serra in Brazil. Are you and Dr.Serra willing to

share those pic's with the group?

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

At 07:33 PM 12/15/2004, TucChico@... wrote:

> to the plain layman like myself this post makes no sense it might

>make sense to a dr. Could you please write in language that the rest of us

>can understand?

>Thanks a million

Hey -- go read a book!!! LOL. Seriously (I saw your post,

Bill....)--actually, to the extent you have time and interest, by ALL

means, check out the basic science a bit.

But given not everyone has a penchant, let me have a shot at translation...

On the one hand, this is GOOD. It is 100% no question that addressing our

>appearance is very important to self-esteem, reducing depression that might

>arise, etc. This has important effects on overall health (e.g., specific

>practices of " applied " psychoneuroimmunology, impact of reducing depression

>on the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis, etc.)

OK--here I was talking about WHY getting a filler is not just about

vanity, as an insurance company might claim. Vanity plays a role, no doubt!

So what?

But there is also a medical rationale. If your face looks gaunt and it is

hard to face the world (literally), you can get depressed. We already KNOW

depression is common with HIV disease. And depression can correlate with

more rapid progression. If you can get this fixed with a good filler (and

are lucky enough to be able to afford it!!), it may well help slow

progression of HIV disease.

So--it is more than skin deep....and indeed, we have to understand WHY it

happened to begin with....

>Let's look at the underlying problems. Recognizing d4T/stavudine (Zerit) as

>a proximate cause of a lot of peripheral wasting is important.

That's clear enough. Zerit is a primary culprit--but not exclusive. ( " AZT

butt " was not uncommon back in the day; and HIV causes wasting on its own.)

>But what is causing the damage to adipocytes? And are there ways to offset

>that--and/or to help gradually improve adipocyte biology? Can agents that

>restore mitochondrial viability help in recovery? Or are they a waste of

>money?

Mitochondria are the powerhouses of cells. They are damaged by nukes like

AZT (Retrovir), d4T, ddI, etc. They are also damaged by HIV. Some of the

drugs seem to be preferential in the tissues they damage. Which we see

when, say, ddI is more likely to cause pancreatitis. d4T/stavudine/Zerit

(all the same names for one drug!) damages nerves (neuropathy) and fat

cells (adipocytes).

>Does more comprehensive evaluation and management of endocrine disruption

>help to offset various aspects of lipoatrophy? What is the role of

>testosterone?

There are a few basic " systems " in the body: the immune system, the

endocrine systems (hormones), the neurological system, the digestive

system. They are NOT discreet--they are interconnected (otherwise we'd have

three bodies...) So how does the endocrine system interact with the

development of fat cells? Or their depletion?

>How can we assure appropriate management of other aspects such as

>hypercholesteremia, neuropathy, pancreatitis, lactic acidosis and

>hepatotoxicity? How can we improve gut function to assure adequate nutrient

>intake and offset depletion?

Addressing other aspects. HIV is found in the gut. The gut is damaged. It

doesn't absorb nutrients. Voila, correlates with the observed loss of

micronutrients as disease progresses.

>What is the role and value of agents such as N-acetylcysteine, alpha lipoic

>acid, a multivitamin, carnitine, glutamine? What botanical agents may be of

>help? Should these be evaluated in clinical trials?

These are " dietary supplements " and don't get as much clinical evaluation

as drugs. But that is slowly changing.

>I hope some discussion will arise about how to address the INTERNAL effects

>of lipodystrophy as well as the continued and important discussion of

>external approaches.

Voila....I hope that STARTS to help some.

M.