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Could Sally be " wrong " ? Sally has her reasons.........

She's not necessarily made her position clear because, I believe, it depends

on which aspect of the topic is being discussed. There is enough

information to warrant concerns about a diet using consistent, steady

amounts of alfalfa and I'll give ideas, issues for you to cnosider....

For starters, I've been " sprouting " and germinating seeds/grains/legumes for

20 years, feeding my flock of parrots. When I " sprout " (greening them up) I

use an EasyGreen sprouter and have never had mold.....this things works

fabulously: http://www.2-life.com/site/easygreen_sprouter.html. Mold is a

huge, often overlooked issue for home-sprouters, and most people, imo, do

NOT properly sanitize their sprouts.

No matter what you are sprouting/germinating, you must, must, must use

food-grade hydrogen peroxide (not the brown-bottle drugstore H202 which is

loaded with stabilizers, heavy metals, etc.) in the initial soaking water

to neutralize bacteria and aflatoxins. One of the most trustworthy sources

of sprouting/germinating information is a professional organization that

does extensive research for businesses that provide already

sprouted/germinated seeds to grocery stores, HFS, etc., and over the years,

they've demonstrated that many seeds/grains/legumes, used in

sprouting/germinating contain bacteria and aflatoxins which must be

neutralized. If Will doesn't carry H202 in the store (great for so many

uses - food sanitizing, laundry, cleaner, etc.) it can be ordered here:

http://www.dfwx.com/h2o2.htm

Alfalfa, in particular, harbors salmonella and E coli, more than other

sprouting material. You should ONLY use it if you are buying from a source

that is testing their batches, ensuring the safety. And yes, at this point,

someone will usually pop up claiming " I've sprouted alfalfa for 350 years

and have never had a problem... " . My view is that alfalfa is like playing

Russian Roulette, so it isn't a topic I debate or want to debate, having

decided that sanitizing with H202, and knowing my supplier, must be

foundational, before I'd even consider sprouting alfalfa seeds.

Bacteria is harbored in the DRY SEED, by the way. We've all heard about

containers of sprouted alfalfa pulled from grocery store shelves,

contaminated with salmonella, etc., but the salmonella didn't develop in the

packaging, or enter the alfalfa sprouts via contaminated production

equipment, but was, instead, latent, within the seed, made manifest, if you

will, during soaking and sprouting, growing right along with the sprout.

Here are some articles about the controversy:

http://www.examiner.com/x-1429-Miami-Food-and-Drink-Examiner~y2009m4d27-Alfalfa-\

sprouts-grown-in-South-Florida-are-safe

" The CDC received reports of 31 cases of *Salmonella* Saintpaul, a

particular strain of the bacteria, in Michigan, Minnesota, Pennsylvania,

South Dakota, Utah, and West Virginia. "

The International Sprout Growers Association, an organization I've followed

and watched develop over many years, takes a leadership position, teaching

sprouting techniques, and ensuring the quality of seeds are safe:

http://www.isga-sprouts.org/

Screened seeds can be purchased here:

http://www.sproutnet.com/sprouting_seed_and_supplies.htm

Both the ISGA and Sproutnet have a great archive of research posts

emphasizing the importance of knowing your supplier, as well as properly

sanitizing. If you want to learn how to sanitize with H202, let me know

and I'll walk you through it. It's simple once you get the basics down.

Other reasons Sally could possibly be anti-alfala? Goitrogenic! Thyroid

issues are often undiagnosed, and eating alfalfa, without proper levels of

iodine, can result in a dysfunctional thyroid, thyroid cancer, or goiters.

Moderns tend to overdue, eating above and beyond " traditional " levels, and

WAPF addresses that issue regarding isoflavones in this article:

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/dangersisoflavones.html

HTH!

Sharon, NH

>

>

> I just started sprouting yesterday with raw pumpkin seeds and alfalfa

> sprouting seeds. I was reading in NT about sprouting and Sally Fallon says

> NEVER to sprout alfalfa. This goes against everything else I have ever read

> about alfalfa. Could Sally be wrong?! Gasp! Anyone want to weigh in with

> their opinion on alfalfa?

>

>

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Donna Gates/Body Ecology says the same about not using alfalfa, but I don't know

why. Something toxic about it, I assume. I sprout clover instead and like it a

lot. Clover seems to be a bit sturdier and holds up better under frequent

rinsing during sprouting in a jar, i.e., the tender leaves don't break off as

much as with alfalfa. R.

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While clover doesn't have the salmonella issue like the alfalfa, it has

other issues which Fallon discusses here:

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/dangersisoflavones.html<http://www.westonaprice.\

org/soy/dangersisoflavones.html>Sharon,

NH

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Carr

wrote:

>

>

> Donna Gates/Body Ecology says the same about not using alfalfa, but I don't

> know why. Something toxic about it, I assume. I sprout clover instead and

> like it a lot. Clover seems to be a bit sturdier and holds up better under

> frequent rinsing during sprouting in a jar, i.e., the tender leaves don't

> break off as much as with alfalfa. R.

>

>

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Ok, does the warehouse carry the food grade H2O2 or where does

everybody get theirs and how much does one use in the soaking water?

> While clover doesn't have the salmonella issue like the alfalfa, it has

> other issues which Fallon discusses here:

>

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/dangersisoflavones.html<http://www.westonaprice.\

org/soy/dangersisoflavones.html>Sharon,

> NH

>

> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Carr

> wrote:

>

>>

>>

>> Donna Gates/Body Ecology says the same about not using alfalfa, but I

>> don't

>> know why. Something toxic about it, I assume. I sprout clover instead and

>> like it a lot. Clover seems to be a bit sturdier and holds up better under

>> frequent rinsing during sprouting in a jar, i.e., the tender leaves don't

>> break off as much as with alfalfa. R.

>>

>>

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Ideal is to buy 35% food grade and reduce it to 3% with a 11:1 ratio

water:h202. From THAT mix, use 1 oz for every 1 cup of soaking solution.

Treat the 35% with respect. It is called liquid fire for good reason. But

don't fear it so much that you don't use it. It is well worth the extra

precaution and care. I use it for everything. Europeans are much more

advanced in their use of H202 over bleach. H202 breaks down after

20-minutes into pure water.

You can use H202 with ACV for a perfect blend that kills a wide array of

fungus, mold, yeast, mildew, bacteria, but make sure you NEVER mix them

together in the same bottle. Put them both in spray bottles - store

separately, spray them both onto the area you're sanitizing. Leave on a

full 20-minutes and then wipe clean.

Don't buy 17% food grade H202. Too often, it is too dluted with water. You

know you have good quality H202 when you place it in the freezer and it WILL

NOT freeze. If it freezes, you've bought yourself a container of water and

dealt with an unscrupulous dealer.

Sharon

>

>

> Ok, does the warehouse carry the food grade H2O2 or where does

> everybody get theirs and how much does one use in the soaking water?

>

>

> On 8/17/09, Sharon son <sharon@... <sharon%40ericsons.net>>

> wrote:

> > While clover doesn't have the salmonella issue like the alfalfa, it has

> > other issues which Fallon discusses here:

> > http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/dangersisoflavones.html<

> http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/dangersisoflavones.html>Sharon,

> > NH

> >

> > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Carr

> > <moxie77@... <moxie77%40frontiernet.net>>wrote:

> >

> >>

> >>

> >> Donna Gates/Body Ecology says the same about not using alfalfa, but I

> >> don't

> >> know why. Something toxic about it, I assume. I sprout clover instead

> and

> >> like it a lot. Clover seems to be a bit sturdier and holds up better

> under

> >> frequent rinsing during sprouting in a jar, i.e., the tender leaves

> don't

> >> break off as much as with alfalfa. R.

> >>

> >>

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You seem to know so much on this issue. I've always sprouted with plain water

and never had problems, but am very interested in what you have to say. Would

you mind explaining your soaking methods? Do you use the sanitizing mixture for

the overnight soaking before putting them in the sprouter? Or another method?

Again, very interesting. Would you say this is necessary for any kind of

sprouts inlcuding wheat and bean?

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For any parrot owner, it is vital information that can save thousands of

dollars in vet bills, so yes, I'm well read on the topic. I'm in the middle

of dehydrating, fermenting, making butter and ricotta, so if we could do

this in stages, I'd be glad to help as much as possible.

Start by reading about mycotoxins in grains. Here's someone who wrote a good

piece that is NT/WAPF-friendly:

http://thehealthadvantage.com/grainsandmycotoxins.html

<http://thehealthadvantage.com/grainsandmycotoxins.html> Are you familiar

with aflatoxin infestation of peanuts? We don't eat any peanuts not grown

in New Mexico, for example, because NM is the only state that doesn't have

aflatoxins - specifically, the Valencia peanut.

Legumes, beans, grains - it is all the same. It all has to be sanitized and

germinated - whether you are going to only consume the germinated products,

(never with " big " beans, by the way - you want to cook those and never eat

those raw), or give them to your animals (farmers feed sprouted

grains/seeds/legumes to livestock..have a dairy farmer here in NH who does

that. The U of Minnesota calls germinated seeds/grains/legumes the

" equivalent " of fruits/vegetables/grass. Germinating makes nutrients

available anywhere from 3 to 300%, again U of M study - the leaders in

studying germinated/sprouted material.

I always sanitize...cannot emphasize that enough - whether it is going to

just germinate in a tray, a sieve or the Easy Green machine......

Many diseases that result from aflatoxin/mycotoxin are not going to be a

quick allergy or tummy ache. It's going to be auto-immune, cancers, etc.

It is a huge health problem, imo..........

http://www.fao.org/Wairdocs/X5008E/X5008e01.htm

It is yet another reason to NEVER eat ANY meat that has been primarily fed

grains:

http://www.oardc.ohio-state.edu/ohiofieldcropdisease/Mycotoxins/mycopagedefault.\

htm

Not trying to be alarmist, but it truly is something to take very, very

seriously.

Sharon, NH

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 1:43 PM, naturalhealthinwi <

naturalhealthinwi@...> wrote:

>

>

> You seem to know so much on this issue. I've always sprouted with plain

> water and never had problems, but am very interested in what you have to

> say. Would you mind explaining your soaking methods? Do you use the

> sanitizing mixture for the overnight soaking before putting them in the

> sprouter? Or another method? Again, very interesting. Would you say this is

> necessary for any kind of sprouts inlcuding wheat and bean?

>

>

>

--

I just happen to think that in life we need to be a little like the farmer,

who puts back into the soil what he takes out " ~ Newman

Deut 11:15 He will put grass in the fields for your cattle, and you will

have plenty to eat.

Check out my blog - www.ericsons.net - Food for the Body and Soul

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  • 2 years later...

Hello Jefferio (Jeff? Jeffer? lol) --

Welcome. :)

I believe vermicompost can be too 'hot' to use by itself on microgreens. I'm

gonna ask EW or one of our soil-sprouter experts to step in and comment further,

please. :)

I'm intrigued by your RV challenge. Sprouts will grow anywhere, fortunately (I

grew some hanging off a towel rack in a hotel bathroom once as a challenge lol).

The Food Pantrie is a hanging screened rack that can be used for sprouting or

dehydrating. If I were to use it in an RV I would place a hanging hook in a

corner or non-traffic area (is there one? lol), and maybe a couple of cuphooks

on sidewalls for guywires to prevent sway; plus I'd place a towel in bottom rack

and staple/tape a plastic bag around the bottom (would replace frequently to

avoid mold).

http://www.discountjuicers.com/pantrie.html

Simpler/cheaper version of this would be a 3-tier wire hanging basket, like you

might use at home to store fruit. Find one with flatter bottoms; find/make

sprouting trays to fit; hook on ceiling and guywires/hooks on side as above;

small towels in each layer and plastic on bottom basket to prevent splash.

Do let us know how you choose to organize!

Molly

>

> Hi gang!

> I've had the worm bin composting the fiber from my juicing and my wheatgrass

sod for about six months now, so I should presumably have enough worm tea and

castings to fertilize the micro greens for the first time. Any tips?

>

> Also, does anyone have ideas on how to organize sprouting space in an RV? I'm

thinking of dedicating the entertainment center corner nook to sprouting. Isn't

sprouting more entertaining than TV these days? :)

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Thanks, .

What is an aerogarden? Is that the handie pantrie? :)

What do you use for hydroponics in the RV? Is that the micro farm?

Do you prefer jars to easy sprouters, stacking trays and hemp bags?

Thanks,

Jeff

> >

> > Hi gang!

> >

> > I'm starting with one of each discounted sprout sampler and one of each kind

of sprouter.

> >

> > I've already sprouted everything successfully except the microgreens and the

cruciferous seeds, which I haven't tried yet. I'll be trying these next.

> >

> > I've had the worm bin composting the fiber from my juicing and my wheatgrass

sod for about six months now, so I should presumably have enough worm tea and

castings to fertilize the micro greens for the first time. Any tips?

> >

> > Also, does anyone have ideas on how to organize sprouting space in an RV?

I'm thinking of dedicating the entertainment center corner nook to sprouting.

Isn't sprouting more entertaining than TV these days? :)

> >

> > Any ideas for sprouting proof shelving to use in an RV?

> >

>

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Thanks Molly.

I wonder whether the handie pantrie would hanging in the shower.

Jeff

> >

> > Hi gang!

>

> > I've had the worm bin composting the fiber from my juicing and my wheatgrass

sod for about six months now, so I should presumably have enough worm tea and

castings to fertilize the micro greens for the first time. Any tips?

> >

> > Also, does anyone have ideas on how to organize sprouting space in an RV?

I'm thinking of dedicating the entertainment center corner nook to sprouting.

Isn't sprouting more entertaining than TV these days? :)

>

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Thanks ew.

I needed to know how to make worm tea.

Jeff

>

> Vermicompost is not too hot, but too strong. Soak one cup or vermicompost in a

gal. of water over night to make worm 'tea'. Strain the tea. Then dilute that

tea with equal parts of water to feed your microgreens that you have in any

soil. Not necessary to ad this to any of your sprouters. The sprouts don't need

it to grow.

> You can also use this mix for house plants, except any cactus or succulents.

> PS: toss the compost that you strained out in you garden.

> ew

>

> Re: new to sprouting

>

> Hello Jefferio (Jeff? Jeffer? lol) --

>

> Welcome. :)

>

> I believe vermicompost can be too 'hot' to use by itself on microgreens. I'm

gonna ask EW or one of our soil-sprouter experts to step in and comment further,

please. :)

>

>

>

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What about sunflower micro greens?

Jeff

>

> should say: soak one cup of

>

> PS: I never add and fertilizer to any microgreens. They really don't need it.

The only time I would is if gowing pea shoots. I might add something after the

fourth cutting.

> ew

>

> Re: new to sprouting

>

> Hello Jefferio (Jeff? Jeffer? lol) --

>

> Welcome. :)

>

> I believe vermicompost can be too 'hot' to use by itself on microgreens. I'm

gonna ask EW or one of our soil-sprouter experts to step in and comment further,

please. :)

>

>

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Hi . You referred to the Micro farm. I have one and another unopened. Do

you grow wheatgrass in it, and if so-any tips on avoiding mold while growing. I

use some ocean solution and a touch of peroxide and even in cold weather I

notice a bit of mold. I'm thinking of taking them out after about 5 days to get

more air and prevent any mold and just water as needed.

Re: new to sprouting

An aerogarden is a self contained total garden system-you can google it to

find tons of info, and there are plenty of videos of them on youtube. I buy mine

used off of craigslist or have even gotten some free off of freecycle. I have a

ton of them-they are wonderful. The Handie (Food) pantrie is a solar

dehydrator/sprouter/wheatgrass grower-totally different set up. I make my own

hydroponic gardens from various methods, pond pumps, etc. I do prefer jars, for

the most part, since they don't require much attention. I do use some hemp bags

(I make them myself-MUCH cheaper) that I hang from hooks over my kitchen sink,

but the mikro (micro) farm is THE BOMB!! I even grow many " baby " or mini veggies

in mine-love it.

> > >

> > > Hi gang!

> > >

> > > I'm starting with one of each discounted sprout sampler and one of each

kind of sprouter.

> > >

> > > I've already sprouted everything successfully except the microgreens and

the cruciferous seeds, which I haven't tried yet. I'll be trying these next.

> > >

> > > I've had the worm bin composting the fiber from my juicing and my

wheatgrass sod for about six months now, so I should presumably have enough worm

tea and castings to fertilize the micro greens for the first time. Any tips?

> > >

> > > Also, does anyone have ideas on how to organize sprouting space in an

RV? I'm thinking of dedicating the entertainment center corner nook to

sprouting. Isn't sprouting more entertaining than TV these days? :)

> > >

> > > Any ideas for sprouting proof shelving to use in an RV?

> > >

> >

>

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I am allergic to wheat, so I don't grow it, but have in the past...just not in

the micro farm. Are you sure it IS mold? Many grasses will get some fine,

hairlike appendages at the base of the root, often thought to be mold, but

usually not. If you KNOW it is mold, it sounds like your temperature is too

warm or too cold, or you are over watering?

> > > >

> > > > Hi gang!

> > > >

> > > > I'm starting with one of each discounted sprout sampler and one of

each kind of sprouter.

> > > >

> > > > I've already sprouted everything successfully except the microgreens

and the cruciferous seeds, which I haven't tried yet. I'll be trying these next.

> > > >

> > > > I've had the worm bin composting the fiber from my juicing and my

wheatgrass sod for about six months now, so I should presumably have enough worm

tea and castings to fertilize the micro greens for the first time. Any tips?

> > > >

> > > > Also, does anyone have ideas on how to organize sprouting space in an

RV? I'm thinking of dedicating the entertainment center corner nook to

sprouting. Isn't sprouting more entertaining than TV these days? :)

> > > >

> > > > Any ideas for sprouting proof shelving to use in an RV?

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

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It's probably r/t too much moisture. As an aside, most folks w/ wheat issues

have no trouble w/ the juice of the green seedling/ grass.

Re: new to sprouting

I am allergic to wheat, so I don't grow it, but have in the past...just not in

the micro farm. Are you sure it IS mold? Many grasses will get some fine,

hairlike appendages at the base of the root, often thought to be mold, but

usually not. If you KNOW it is mold, it sounds like your temperature is too warm

or too cold, or you are over watering?

> > > >

> > > > Hi gang!

> > > >

> > > > I'm starting with one of each discounted sprout sampler and one of

each kind of sprouter.

> > > >

> > > > I've already sprouted everything successfully except the microgreens

and the cruciferous seeds, which I haven't tried yet. I'll be trying these next.

> > > >

> > > > I've had the worm bin composting the fiber from my juicing and my

wheatgrass sod for about six months now, so I should presumably have enough worm

tea and castings to fertilize the micro greens for the first time. Any tips?

> > > >

> > > > Also, does anyone have ideas on how to organize sprouting space in an

RV? I'm thinking of dedicating the entertainment center corner nook to

sprouting. Isn't sprouting more entertaining than TV these days? :)

> > > >

> > > > Any ideas for sprouting proof shelving to use in an RV?

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Since you can only harvest the sunflower shoots once it is unnecessary to give

them any fertilizer. Just toss the roots into the compost pile or to the

chickens or worms (if your lucky enough to have some). Then just start your next

batch.

Lee

> What about sunflower micro greens?

>

> Jeff

>

>

> >

> > should say: soak one cup of

> >

> > PS: I never add and fertilizer to any microgreens. They really don't need

it. The only time I would is if gowing pea shoots. I might add something after

the fourth cutting.

> > ew

> >

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I tip my container of harvested microgreens out in my yard-the squirrels and

birds go crazy for them!

> > >

> > > should say: soak one cup of

> > >

> > > PS: I never add and fertilizer to any microgreens. They really don't need

it. The only time I would is if gowing pea shoots. I might add something after

the fourth cutting.

> > > ew

> > >

>

>

>

>

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Jeff,

I have sunflower sprouts growing in my kitchen window all of the time. The

medium is 1/2 perlite and 1/2 coir. There is no nutrition in that mix. I do not

fertilize or feed them. Depending on the warmth of your house, they should be

ready to eat in one week. All of the nutrition that the plant needs is in the

seed itself.

ew

Re: new to sprouting

What about sunflower micro greens?

Jeff

-

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  • 1 month later...
Guest guest

Thanks...I did buy them in the grocery store, just recently, in the ethnic

aisle. I am in Michigan but it has been warm here lately. They do have a small

smell to them, but I have tasted them and they taste ok. Hmmm, I will have to

see if I can find organic somewhere. Are they still ok to eat, even if they

don't sprout? I figured tomorrow, I would just put them in the fridge.

Thanks

Kathy

> > > HI,

> > > I am trying to sprout some chick peas and not having very good luck. I

started soaking on Thursday. Since Friday morning, I have rinsed and drained

morning and night.

> >

>

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Guest guest

If they were in the ethnic aisle, chances are even greater that they were

imported, and thus treated with something (probably antimicrobials and/or growth

inhibetors, designed to KEEP them from sprouting in long transit and storage.

If they have an off smell, they may be rancid. I wouldn't eat them personally.

> > > > HI,

> > > > I am trying to sprout some chick peas and not having very good luck. I

started soaking on Thursday. Since Friday morning, I have rinsed and drained

morning and night.

> > >

> >

>

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Guest guest

Ok, thanks for the info. They only sell them in the ethnic aisle in our grocery

store. So I will have to find somewhere where they sell organic ones. I

appreciate everyones help.

Kathy

> > > > > HI,

> > > > > I am trying to sprout some chick peas and not having very good luck.

I started soaking on Thursday. Since Friday morning, I have rinsed and drained

morning and night.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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