Re: Just back from seeing Dr. Serra in Brazil

[Guest guest]

I'm just back from my second treatment session in Rio de Janeiro with Dr. Marcio Serra and have been reading all the recent postings on the board about Dr. Serra's work on faces and butts with PMMA. Thought I would add my two bits to the discussion since I've seen and worked with Dr. Serra quite recently.

Thank you for the excellent email! I tend to agree with DR Serra on most of his views also.

Do you happen to have pics to share with us? (I can cover your eyes if you want)

VergelDirectorProgram for Wellness Restoration, PoWeRA 501 © 3 non profit national organization"Only what we are not giving can be lacking in any situation"The Course of MiraclesLinks to our web sites:www.nelsonvergel.comwww.powerusa.orgwww.facialwasting.orgwww.salvagetherapies.orgJoin our free listservers by sending a blank email to:pozhealth-subscribe fuzeonsupport-subscribe

[Guest guest]

Wow, that’s a lot of information, ,

and very useful. Thank you very much for posting this! It looks like I will be checking out flights to Brazil in the near

future.

I just have one question – how long

did you end up staying in Brazil for each treatment session (i.e., did Dr. Serra have you stick around for a couple of days to make

sure there were no complications)?

Just back

from seeing Dr. Serra in Brazil

I'm just back from my second treatment session in

Rio de

Janeiro with Dr. Marcio Serra and have been

reading all the

recent postings on the board about Dr. Serra's

work on faces

and butts with PMMA. Thought I would add my

two bits to the

discussion since I've seen and worked with Dr.

Serra quite

recently.

First of all, I whole-heartedly recommend Dr.

Serra. Not only is

he a very fine doctor but he's an extremely nice

guy as well. FYI,

before going to Rio for my treatments, I checked

him out

thoroughly, including getting in touch with some

of his former

patients, reading his treatment abstracts that he

presented in

Thailand at the International AIDS Conference,

emailing

questions and receiving before and after photos

from Dr. Serra

directly, and discussing all of this with my

personal physician

here in NYC. While in Rio for my first

treatment session with Dr.

Serra—the most rigorous of the 2—I

emailed a post to this board

and was overwhelmed by the number of people who

contacted

me wanting more information. My sessions

with Dr. Serra were

to treat my moderate facial lipoatrophy. 3

years ago, I had 5

NuFill/Sculptra treatments and had not been

impressed—very

very expensive and the results were not

lasting. I can honestly

say that Dr. Serra managed to accomplish more in

one

treatment session than all five Sculptra sessions

and it seems

to be lasting. If you go back to my October

postings on the board,

maybe you can find my description of the session

and see that I

was and still am very pleased.

My second treatment session with Dr. Serra was

about 2 weeks

ago. Dr. Serra had photographed me at the

start of the 1st

session in October, and at the start of the 2nd

session, we

reviewed the before photos from early October,

took some more

photos, and then decided what needed to be

attended to in the

2nd session. I didn't need much

more—mostly some

smoothing out of certain areas, etc. The 2nd

session was far

less intense and easier, with probably a third as

many

injections, or less.

One reason I wanted to write the board again about

my

experience with Dr. Serra is that, following this

most recent

session with him 2 weeks ago, he and I had a very

interesting

conversation that I wanted to share with you

all. I was asking Dr.

Serra his feelings about the various

" fillers " that are available

around the world for HIV patients who suffer

lipodistrophy

problems and his opinions of them all. He's

worked with pretty

much most of the available products, and I thought

his

comments on them were extremely interesting.

Dr. Serra currently uses Sculptra only for

treating fine lines,

mostly around the lips. He does not feel

that Sculptra is an

effective product for filling fat pockets lost

through HIV

lipodistrophy. He said that he felt

Bio-Alcamid was an effective

filler but that the molecule that makes up this

product is very

large and that the techniques developed to implant

it (shot

directly down into the dermal layer, implanting a

sort of balloon

underneath that fills the area) make it useful

more for very deep

pockets but not so much for moderate ones and that

the results

were ultimately less " natural " and

smooth to the face. He was

extremely bothered by the price of Bio-Alcamid,

especially

considering that it was totally out of reach for

all but the extremely

wealthy in Brazil. One quality that he uses

to " rate " a product is

price versus results, and he had some issue with

Bio-Alcamid in

this department. In terms of silicone, he

said he uses it as well,

though he is not anxious to inject lots of this

product in the face

or butt or body for that matter. He is

currently using it for very

deep fine lines—brow lines, that sort of

thing. He also said that

he had been very disappointed in some of the big

HIV

conferences were new filler products had been

presented, and

for this reason: he said that many of these

products have large

financial backers and present their

" results " after a mere 6

months of testing, hoping that doctors will seek

to use the

products. He wants to see long-term results

at conferences

rather than short term promotional abstracts.

I asked Dr. Serra what he liked about PMMA.

Keep in mind that

the PMMA solution he is using in Brazil is not his

invention and

he is not profiting from the product itself.

The solution that he is

using in Brazil in which the PMMA material is

suspended is

different than that sold under the brand name

" Artecoll " in that the

Artecoll product is suspended in, I believe,

bovine collagen and

has caused all kinds of problems, mostly of the

allergic sort. Dr.

Serra and his colleagues in Brazil use a different

solution to

suspend the PMMA which is non-allergenic and, more

importantly, have developed a technique of

implanting it which

seems to be very effective. They inject the

solution in a series of

cross lines, implanting the material in your face

or butt in

overlapping crosshatch stitches like the letter

" X " . He holds the

syringe almost parallel to your face, injecting

the needle

sideways through the dermal layer, releasing the

PMMA solution

as he pulls the needle out, massaging the trail of

PMMA with his

fingers as he goes. The results are smooth

and natural and

hold up well in the long term, especially if the

lipodistrophy

continues to progress. He and another

colleague in Brazil have

been experimenting with how much PMMA they can

implant at

one time. This is not so important with the

face, but in terms of

reconstructing butts, clearly more is needed so it

would be better

to be able to deposit more at a time to build a

greater surface

faster. He's getting more and more butt

patients, many of whom

are not even HIV positive. In terms of

long-term use of PMMA, he

presented results in Thailand this past summer at

the

International AIDS conference for 5 years worth of

PMMA

treatments. Because of this, he is now

jetting off to discuss his

work around the world at various

conferences. Right after my

session, he was getting on the plane to go to

Europe at the

invitation of a HIV conference there. As for

the other issue---

cost—I paid a total of $500 for two sessions

with Dr. Serra,

which included his work and the price of the PMMA

solution. So

in terms of cost versus effectiveness, PMMA scores

pretty high.

So here's the big thing about what I discussed

with Dr. Serra:

He said that he ultimately felt that no one

product will solve all

the problems of any one individual's

lipodistrophy. He said that,

in reality, a patient might need some Bio-Alcamid

in very deep

pockets, PMMA to fill moderate pockets and build

up a smooth

natural look to the face, silicon for brow lines,

Sculptra for around

the lips. In other words, almost like a

" cocktail " of products

rather than all of one thing. On me, he used

silicone on my brow

and only PMMA for my face. I think, as Americans

especially, we

always seem to be looking for that one magic

bullet, that one

special product that's going to cure all and make

everything

perfect. Maybe instead, we need to look at

these facial and butt

filler products more like we do with our HIV

cocktails—a mixture

of meds that make up a way to that's prescribed as

per the

individual. I've been bothered in the past

by some of the HIV

community who get on the bandwagon about

individual drugs

and medical products and act like they've found the

answer,

when in fact each of these finds are part of the

answer and we

need to decide how to use each to their greatest

effect.

I guess that's about it. Be glad to answer

any questions about

the above if I can. Thanks.

Welcome to

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In Health,

Vergel (powertx@...)

List Founder and Moderator

[Guest guest]

I went to Rio twice to see Dr. Serra. The trips were about one

month apart from each other. Dr. Serra says he sometimes

does the 2 sessions only 2 weeks apart for those people from

abroad who can only make the trip once and can stay the entire

time. However, the space of one month apart is better, and

actually when I sat down and laid out the cost it was pretty much

the same price to stay for a little over 2 weeks or to go down

there 2 separate times.

My first trip I stayed 5 days. Dr. Serra recommended staying in

Rio a few days after the first session because of possible

swelling to the face. I arrived on a Thursday (all flights are

overnight), had my session on a Friday, then left Rio the

following Monday. The next session, one month later, I stayed

only 3 days and left the same day as my treatment session.

Keep in mind I was only having face work done, not butt work.

You'd have to ask Dr. Serra directly what the time plan is he'd

recommend for butt work.

I used airline miles for one of the plane trips so only had to pay

for the second trip down there. The best time to go, in terms of

budget, is between Easter and Thanksgiving, which is

considered the " off " season for tourism and the rates are much

lower. Flights during the off season range from $500-$800,

depending on airline and flight times and where in the States

you're flying from. During the season, the airline prices are

much higher and flights are harder to get. Anything around

Carnival time is impossible. For both trips I rented a

one-bedroom, fully-equipped condo in Ipanema, 2 blocks back

from the beach, for $35/night. I cooked " at home " a lot to save

money (supermarket was right across the street), though

restaurants abound, are excellent and very reasonably priced.

Dr. Serra's office is in Copacabana. I walked there the first time,

and took a cab to and from the other times (cab ride is maybe

$2.00-- very cheap). Rio is a fantastic city, very sophisticated and

breathtakingly gorgeous. The beaches are unreal, graced by the

most beautiful and sexy people you've ever seen. I'd been there

before, so knew that I wanted to stay in Ipanema. It's less

crowded and very safe (there are crime concerns in some of

Rio's other neighborhoods). Other good neighborhoods are

Arpoador and Leblon. Copacabana is very built up though there

are lots and lots of hotels there catering to tourists. A couple of

blocks back from the hotels on Copacabana beach is a huge

commercial boulevard called " Avenida da Nossa Senhora da

Copacabana " , with skyscraper office towers and loads of

businesses, packed with people. Maybe 3 miles long. Dr.

Serra's office is up on one of the office towers there.

Most professional Brazilians (like Dr. Serra) speak some

English (Dr. Serra's English is quite good), but you'll find the

average Brazilian doesn't speak anything but Portuguese. If you

know Spanish, you'll be able to get by a little better. I wouldn't

let the language issue be a concern though. Hotels and airline

offices and sometimes even restaurants all have staff members

who speak English. If you can learn the words for " thank you "

and some basic courtesies, you'll be fine. You can write out

addresses for cab drivers and show it to them.

It is possible to rent a furnished apartment by the month during

the off-season in Ipanema for as little as $500. For those of you

who could swing it, you might consider going down there and

staying for the summer months, having your butt and face done,

and coming home totally refreshed (in every sense of the word).

Just a thought.

Hope that answers all the questions.

> Wow, that's a lot of information, , and very useful. Thank

you very

> much for posting this! It looks like I will be checking out

flights

to

> Brazil in the near future.

>

>

>

> I just have one question - how long did you end up staying in

Brazil for

> each treatment session (i.e., did Dr. Serra have you stick

around for a

> couple of days to make sure there were no complications)?

>

>

>

> Just back from seeing Dr. Serra in Brazil

>

>

>

>

> I'm just back from my second treatment session in Rio de

> Janeiro with Dr. Marcio Serra and have been reading all the

> recent postings on the board about Dr. Serra's work on faces

> and butts with PMMA. Thought I would add my two bits to the

> discussion since I've seen and worked with Dr. Serra quite

> recently.

>

> First of all, I whole-heartedly recommend Dr. Serra. Not only is

> he a very fine doctor but he's an extremely nice guy as well.

FYI,

> before going to Rio for my treatments, I checked him out

> thoroughly, including getting in touch with some of his former

> patients, reading his treatment abstracts that he presented in

> Thailand at the International AIDS Conference, emailing

> questions and receiving before and after photos from Dr. Serra

> directly, and discussing all of this with my personal physician

> here in NYC. While in Rio for my first treatment session with

Dr.

> Serra-the most rigorous of the 2-I emailed a post to this board

> and was overwhelmed by the number of people who contacted

> me wanting more information. My sessions with Dr. Serra

were

> to treat my moderate facial lipoatrophy. 3 years ago, I had 5

> NuFill/Sculptra treatments and had not been impressed-very

> very expensive and the results were not lasting. I can honestly

> say that Dr. Serra managed to accomplish more in one

> treatment session than all five Sculptra sessions and it seems

> to be lasting. If you go back to my October postings on the

board,

> maybe you can find my description of the session and see that

I

> was and still am very pleased.

>

> My second treatment session with Dr. Serra was about 2

weeks

> ago. Dr. Serra had photographed me at the start of the 1st

> session in October, and at the start of the 2nd session, we

> reviewed the before photos from early October, took some

more

> photos, and then decided what needed to be attended to in the

> 2nd session. I didn't need much more-mostly some

> smoothing out of certain areas, etc. The 2nd session was far

> less intense and easier, with probably a third as many

> injections, or less.

>

> One reason I wanted to write the board again about my

> experience with Dr. Serra is that, following this most recent

> session with him 2 weeks ago, he and I had a very interesting

> conversation that I wanted to share with you all. I was asking

Dr.

> Serra his feelings about the various " fillers " that are available

> around the world for HIV patients who suffer lipodistrophy

> problems and his opinions of them all. He's worked with pretty

> much most of the available products, and I thought his

> comments on them were extremely interesting.

>

> Dr. Serra currently uses Sculptra only for treating fine lines,

> mostly around the lips. He does not feel that Sculptra is an

> effective product for filling fat pockets lost through HIV

> lipodistrophy. He said that he felt Bio-Alcamid was an effective

> filler but that the molecule that makes up this product is very

> large and that the techniques developed to implant it (shot

> directly down into the dermal layer, implanting a sort of balloon

> underneath that fills the area) make it useful more for very

deep

> pockets but not so much for moderate ones and that the

results

> were ultimately less " natural " and smooth to the face. He was

> extremely bothered by the price of Bio-Alcamid, especially

> considering that it was totally out of reach for all but the

extremely

> wealthy in Brazil. One quality that he uses to " rate " a product is

> price versus results, and he had some issue with Bio-Alcamid

in

> this department. In terms of silicone, he said he uses it as

well,

> though he is not anxious to inject lots of this product in the face

> or butt or body for that matter. He is currently using it for very

> deep fine lines-brow lines, that sort of thing. He also said that

> he had been very disappointed in some of the big HIV

> conferences were new filler products had been presented, and

> for this reason: he said that many of these products have large

> financial backers and present their " results " after a mere 6

> months of testing, hoping that doctors will seek to use the

> products. He wants to see long-term results at conferences

> rather than short term promotional abstracts.

>

> I asked Dr. Serra what he liked about PMMA. Keep in mind that

> the PMMA solution he is using in Brazil is not his invention and

> he is not profiting from the product itself. The solution that he

is

> using in Brazil in which the PMMA material is suspended is

> different than that sold under the brand name " Artecoll " in that

the

> Artecoll product is suspended in, I believe, bovine collagen and

> has caused all kinds of problems, mostly of the allergic sort.

Dr.

> Serra and his colleagues in Brazil use a different solution to

> suspend the PMMA which is non-allergenic and, more

> importantly, have developed a technique of implanting it which

> seems to be very effective. They inject the solution in a series

of

> cross lines, implanting the material in your face or butt in

> overlapping crosshatch stitches like the letter " X " . He holds the

> syringe almost parallel to your face, injecting the needle

> sideways through the dermal layer, releasing the PMMA

solution

> as he pulls the needle out, massaging the trail of PMMA with

his

> fingers as he goes. The results are smooth and natural and

> hold up well in the long term, especially if the lipodistrophy

> continues to progress. He and another colleague in Brazil

have

> been experimenting with how much PMMA they can implant at

> one time. This is not so important with the face, but in terms of

> reconstructing butts, clearly more is needed so it would be

better

> to be able to deposit more at a time to build a greater surface

> faster. He's getting more and more butt patients, many of

whom

> are not even HIV positive. In terms of long-term use of PMMA,

he

> presented results in Thailand this past summer at the

> International AIDS conference for 5 years worth of PMMA

> treatments. Because of this, he is now jetting off to discuss

his

> work around the world at various conferences. Right after my

> session, he was getting on the plane to go to Europe at the

> invitation of a HIV conference there. As for the other issue---

> cost-I paid a total of $500 for two sessions with Dr. Serra,

> which included his work and the price of the PMMA solution.

So

> in terms of cost versus effectiveness, PMMA scores pretty high.

>

> So here's the big thing about what I discussed with Dr. Serra:

> He said that he ultimately felt that no one product will solve all

> the problems of any one individual's lipodistrophy. He said

that,

> in reality, a patient might need some Bio-Alcamid in very deep

> pockets, PMMA to fill moderate pockets and build up a smooth

> natural look to the face, silicon for brow lines, Sculptra for

around

> the lips. In other words, almost like a " cocktail " of products

> rather than all of one thing. On me, he used silicone on my

brow

> and only PMMA for my face. I think, as Americans especially,

we

> always seem to be looking for that one magic bullet, that one

> special product that's going to cure all and make everything

> perfect. Maybe instead, we need to look at these facial and butt

> filler products more like we do with our HIV cocktails-a mixture

> of meds that make up a way to that's prescribed as per the

> individual. I've been bothered in the past by some of the HIV

> community who get on the bandwagon about individual drugs

> and medical products and act like they've found the answer,

> when in fact each of these finds are part of the answer and we

> need to decide how to use each to their greatest effect.

>

> I guess that's about it. Be glad to answer any questions about

> the above if I can. Thanks.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Welcome to our PozHealth group!

> If you received this email from someone who forwarded it to

you and would

> like to join this group, send a blank email to

> PozHealth-subscribe and you will get an

email with

> intructions to follow. You can chose to receive single emails or

a daily

> digest (collection of emails). You can post pictures, images,

attach files

> and search by keyword old postings in the group.

>

> For those of you who are members already and want to switch

from single

> emails to digest or viceversa, visit www.yahoogroups.com,

click on

> PozHealth, then on " edit my membership " and go down to your

selection. The

> list administrator does not process any requests, so this is a

> do-it-yourself easy process !

> Thanks for joining. You will learn and share a lot in this group!

>

> NOTE: I moderate, approve or disapprove emails before they

are posted.

> Please follow the guidelines shown in the homepage. I will not

allow

> rudeness, sexually explicit material, attacks, and anyone who

does not

> follow the rules. If you are not OK with this, please do not join

the group.

>

>

> Forward this email to anyone who may benefit from this

information! Thanks!

> In Health,

>

> Vergel (powertx@a...)

> List Founder and Moderator

>

>

>

>

>

>

>