Re: another gross thing happening! Need advice

[Guest guest]

I am a pediatrician with an interest in children with ASD. The chid who forces himself to regurgitate and occasionally vomit may have rumination syndrome. A difficult to treat condition that may be related to obsessive compulsive traits or to severe gastroesophageal reflux disease. Becase of the apparent enjoyment/pleasure that the boy gets from the process, it may well be rumination. If so help may be obtained from a specialist in cognitive behavioral therapy. However, these psychologist specialists are usually pay for service without acceting medicaid or health insurance. Schwartz, MD Vienna, VA

[Guest guest]

The spray sounds like a great idea. good luck. Pat K

Thank you ,

Yes has many OCD issues and we are dealing with them both behaviorally and with Meds. The OCD type behavior increased at the beginning of summer (we all think early pre puberty he is now 8 3/4 years old) and we have just started to help him get some control with behavioral therapy and Meds. We do see a psychologist and a psychiatrist and he has an ABA type program at home. This is totally in imitation of the other child and I do think he likes the reaction he gets. That is why we tried extinction first but it is really hard to ignore this behavior, especially in school. I think I may try a breath spray, something he doesn't like and when he does this I will give him a spray in his mouth. If it doesn't work at least he will not smell so bad. Hopefully this will be something the school will be able to do as well because consistency is always so important. Thanks for your interest in our kids! They need as many informed/interested professionals as possible on their side. Kellie

To: AutismBehaviorProblems Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 7:30:15 AMSubject: Re: another gross thing happening! Need advice

I am a pediatrician with an interest in children with ASD. The chid who forces himself to regurgitate and occasionally vomit may have rumination syndrome. A difficult to treat condition that may be related to obsessive compulsive traits or to severe gastroesophageal reflux disease. Becase of the apparent enjoyment/pleasure that the boy gets from the process, it may well be rumination. If so help may be obtained from a specialist in cognitive behavioral therapy. However, these psychologist specialists are usually pay for service without acceting medicaid or health insurance. Schwartz, MD Vienna, VA

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[Guest guest]

Hi, Kellie... gags himself -- it is a sensory thing, feels good to gag. We, because of his age, were able to remove chew sticks and other stuff that he would use to gag. Obviously has found a way to get that feeling in an area you don't have any control of...that's what makes it tricky. I'm going to do some research for you today...I'm going to as my OT, she is absolutely fantastic.

Regarding the consequence...what about saying every day that you don't do this, you get a something that in the end gets you something at Target...I know he likes Target...sometimes I've had to do a reward often at first, like every other day, then as the situation improves I do it less frequently, but by this time the inappropriate behavior is almost non-existent...I only know this from Lily........

OK, I'm on a mission today! I'll get back to you.

e

To: AutismBehaviorProblems Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 6:57:04 AMSubject: another gross thing happening! Need advice

Hi Everyone,It just seems like I'm always talking about bodily fluid or function issues!!! just seems to be at a very weird stage where this is concerned. O.K. here goes. Ever since he has been spending 2 hours a day in the self contained class at school he has been making himself vomit a little in his mouth all day long. He makes that awful vomit sound and then swallows it. There is another boy in this class that does this so I know where it comes from but I just don't know what to do about it. It has gotten so bad that he smells like vomit all the time. He doesn't care if it gets on his shirt or if some is around his mouth. It is so gross. The other day he did it and ended up pukeing on the kitchen floor. He actually fought me when I was trying to clean it up. He wanted to lick it off the floor. We were trying extinction but this didn't work. It just got worse. At school they told him to

say excuse me so he does but it is not stopping. I am trying to think of something that is a negative to do everytime but I'm not sure what. I have been trying to make him brush his teeth everytime he does this but he doesn't seem to care. Any advice or help from someone who has seen this or something similar would be greatly appreciated! ! Thanks Kellie

[Guest guest]

Thank you ,

Yes has many OCD issues and we are dealing with them both behaviorally and with Meds. The OCD type behavior increased at the beginning of summer (we all think early pre puberty he is now 8 3/4 years old) and we have just started to help him get some control with behavioral therapy and Meds. We do see a psychologist and a psychiatrist and he has an ABA type program at home. This is totally in imitation of the other child and I do think he likes the reaction he gets. That is why we tried extinction first but it is really hard to ignore this behavior, especially in school. I think I may try a breath spray, something he doesn't like and when he does this I will give him a spray in his mouth. If it doesn't work at least he will not smell so bad. Hopefully this will be something the school will be able to do as well because consistency is always so important. Thanks for your interest in our

kids! They need as many informed/interested professionals as possible on their side. Kellie

To: AutismBehaviorProblems Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 7:30:15 AMSubject: Re: another gross thing happening! Need advice

I am a pediatrician with an interest in children with ASD. The chid who forces himself to regurgitate and occasionally vomit may have rumination syndrome. A difficult to treat condition that may be related to obsessive compulsive traits or to severe gastroesophageal reflux disease. Becase of the apparent enjoyment/pleasure that the boy gets from the process, it may well be rumination. If so help may be obtained from a specialist in cognitive behavioral therapy. However, these psychologist specialists are usually pay for service without acceting medicaid or health insurance. Schwartz, MD Vienna, VA

[Guest guest]

e,

Thanks!! I really wanted to use a positive but he has so FEW things we can offer and they are already tied up in other behaviors. Target- no touching printers at school, no aggression at school,home and therapy. Computer time is tied to doing work at school and homework. Elevator rides go with other behaviors etc... I just don't have anything left that he will care about. I don't want to use the keyboard because he is so good at playing on it and all that classical music is so good for him... so calming. Since extinction isn't really possible (how do you ignore this, especially at school) and I have tried brushing his teeth each time I think I am going to try a breath spray each time. We have tried a 3 strikes program many times with other behaviors but he just doesn't respond to it. It is so hard to reward positively for NOT doing something like this. If you mention it you

remind him and he will do it, if you don't mention it he doesn't know what he would get for not doing it. VERY CONFUSING. I just wanted you to know where my thought process is and I would really appreciate hearing anything you find out!!!! You are such a sweetheart, Kellie

To: AutismBehaviorProblems Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 8:19:21 AMSubject: Re: another gross thing happening! Need advice

Hi, Kellie... gags himself -- it is a sensory thing, feels good to gag. We, because of his age, were able to remove chew sticks and other stuff that he would use to gag. Obviously has found a way to get that feeling in an area you don't have any control of...that's what makes it tricky. I'm going to do some research for you today...I'm going to as my OT, she is absolutely fantastic.

Regarding the consequence. ..what about saying every day that you don't do this, you get a something that in the end gets you something at Target...I know he likes Target...sometimes I've had to do a reward often at first, like every other day, then as the situation improves I do it less frequently, but by this time the inappropriate behavior is almost non-existent. ..I only know this from Lily........

OK, I'm on a mission today! I'll get back to you.

e

From: "folkangelymail (DOT) com" <folkangelymail (DOT) com>To: AutismBehaviorProbl emsyahoogroups (DOT) comSent: Monday, February 9, 2009 6:57:04 AMSubject: another gross thing happening! Need advice

Hi Everyone,It just seems like I'm always talking about bodily fluid or function issues!!! just seems to be at a very weird stage where this is concerned. O.K. here goes. Ever since he has been spending 2 hours a day in the self contained class at school he has been making himself vomit a little in his mouth all day long. He makes that awful vomit sound and then swallows it. There is another boy in this class that does this so I know where it comes from but I just don't know what to do about it. It has gotten so bad that he smells like vomit all the time. He doesn't care if it gets on his shirt or if some is around his mouth. It is so gross. The other day he did it and ended up pukeing on the kitchen floor. He actually fought me when I was trying to clean it up. He wanted to lick it off the floor. We were trying extinction but this didn't work. It just got worse. At school they told him to

say excuse me so he does but it is not stopping. I am trying to think of something that is a negative to do everytime but I'm not sure what. I have been trying to make him brush his teeth everytime he does this but he doesn't seem to care. Any advice or help from someone who has seen this or something similar would be greatly appreciated! ! Thanks Kellie

[Guest guest]

e,

One more thing. used to want the input in his throat as well. We helped him get what he needed by giving him a sippy cup that he had to really suck on to get the drink out. I would usually put something like a smoothie in it. This worked well for him and when he needed this input he would ask for the sippy cup. I did try this again (he hasn't wanted this in awhile) but he wasn't interested, even when I used a straw with a very thick smoothie. I am leaning toward behavioral instead of sensory because of the other kid and the fact that if you ignore the behavior he then seeks you out to say EXCUSE ME so you know he did it. Everything is just so complicated.... Kellie

To: AutismBehaviorProblems Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 8:46:49 AMSubject: Re: another gross thing happening! Need advice

e,

Thanks!! I really wanted to use a positive but he has so FEW things we can offer and they are already tied up in other behaviors. Target- no touching printers at school, no aggression at school,home and therapy. Computer time is tied to doing work at school and homework. Elevator rides go with other behaviors etc... I just don't have anything left that he will care about. I don't want to use the keyboard because he is so good at playing on it and all that classical music is so good for him... so calming. Since extinction isn't really possible (how do you ignore this, especially at school) and I have tried brushing his teeth each time I think I am going to try a breath spray each time. We have tried a 3 strikes program many times with other behaviors but he just doesn't respond to it. It is so hard to reward positively for NOT doing something like this. If you mention it you

remind him and he will do it, if you don't mention it he doesn't know what he would get for not doing it. VERY CONFUSING. I just wanted you to know where my thought process is and I would really appreciate hearing anything you find out!!!! You are such a sweetheart, Kellie

To: AutismBehaviorProblems Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 8:19:21 AMSubject: Re: another gross thing happening! Need advice

Hi, Kellie... gags himself -- it is a sensory thing, feels good to gag. We, because of his age, were able to remove chew sticks and other stuff that he would use to gag. Obviously has found a way to get that feeling in an area you don't have any control of...that's what makes it tricky. I'm going to do some research for you today...I'm going to as my OT, she is absolutely fantastic.

Regarding the consequence. ..what about saying every day that you don't do this, you get a something that in the end gets you something at Target...I know he likes Target...sometimes I've had to do a reward often at first, like every other day, then as the situation improves I do it less frequently, but by this time the inappropriate behavior is almost non-existent. ..I only know this from Lily........

OK, I'm on a mission today! I'll get back to you.

e

From: "folkangelymail (DOT) com" <folkangelymail (DOT) com>To: AutismBehaviorProbl emsyahoogroups (DOT) comSent: Monday, February 9, 2009 6:57:04 AMSubject: another gross thing happening! Need advice

Hi Everyone,It just seems like I'm always talking about bodily fluid or function issues!!! just seems to be at a very weird stage where this is concerned. O.K. here goes. Ever since he has been spending 2 hours a day in the self contained class at school he has been making himself vomit a little in his mouth all day long. He makes that awful vomit sound and then swallows it. There is another boy in this class that does this so I know where it comes from but I just don't know what to do about it. It has gotten so bad that he smells like vomit all the time. He doesn't care if it gets on his shirt or if some is around his mouth. It is so gross. The other day he did it and ended up pukeing on the kitchen floor. He actually fought me when I was trying to clean it up. He wanted to lick it off the floor. We were trying extinction but this didn't work. It just got worse. At school they told him to

say excuse me so he does but it is not stopping. I am trying to think of something that is a negative to do everytime but I'm not sure what. I have been trying to make him brush his teeth everytime he does this but he doesn't seem to care. Any advice or help from someone who has seen this or something similar would be greatly appreciated! ! Thanks Kellie

[Guest guest]

Hi, Kellie...I realize he is imitating someone else, but if he did not like the sensation I don't think he'd do it--gagging is an issue for lots of our children...they obviously don't now they like it until they do it....if that makes sense.... Maybe I'm wrong...also it does seem that you are out of rewards... I know it is tricky with our kiddos, I also know from my own ABA, and OT that most if not all behaviors are workable...so I will ask them when I have a chance. The OT comes tomorrow morning.

I know ignoring it may not make it go away quickly, but if you can get over your precious beautiful boy smelling like vomit (God love him -- ignoring may be the key. It may last 4 days and or it may last 2 weeks, but my assumption is that it will go away...For me sometimes I am embarrassed about something, so I push for it to stop too hard, too fast (we talked about this the other night), when really if I take a step back and let the school handle some of it, and ignore it at home, it does go away (again I only know this from Lily with regard to school, but I do know it with from our in-home program)....talk soon.

You'll figure it out...I know you! LOL

e

To: AutismBehaviorProblems Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 8:46:49 AMSubject: Re: another gross thing happening! Need advice

..

[Guest guest]

I just read this... LOL....OK, it is behavior (however we do know he likes the feeling as he did it when he was younger)...yes, if he seeks you out to say excuse me...it's behavior and needs to be dealt with that way --- it all goes back to ignoring, and or any other thing you can think of to take away, etc...I've got a note out to my ABA therapist, when I hear back I'll send you an email offline.

Hugs to you!!!!!!!

e

To: AutismBehaviorProblems Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 8:57:22 AMSubject: Re: another gross thing happening! Need advice

e,

One more thing. used to want the input in his throat as well. We helped him get what he needed by giving him a sippy cup that he had to really suck on to get the drink out. I would usually put something like a smoothie in it. This worked well for him and when he needed this input he would ask for the sippy cup. I did try this again (he hasn't wanted this in awhile) but he wasn't interested, even when I used a straw with a very thick smoothie. I am leaning toward behavioral instead of sensory because of the other kid and the fact that if you ignore the behavior he then seeks you out to say EXCUSE ME so you know he did it. Everything is just so complicated. ... Kellie

From: Kellie Folkerts <folkangelymail (DOT) com>To: AutismBehaviorProbl emsyahoogroups (DOT) comSent: Monday, February 9, 2009 8:46:49 AMSubject: Re: another gross thing happening! Need advice

e,

Thanks!! I really wanted to use a positive but he has so FEW things we can offer and they are already tied up in other behaviors. Target- no touching printers at school, no aggression at school,home and therapy. Computer time is tied to doing work at school and homework. Elevator rides go with other behaviors etc... I just don't have anything left that he will care about. I don't want to use the keyboard because he is so good at playing on it and all that classical music is so good for him... so calming. Since extinction isn't really possible (how do you ignore this, especially at school) and I have tried brushing his teeth each time I think I am going to try a breath spray each time. We have tried a 3 strikes program many times with other behaviors but he just doesn't respond to it. It is so hard to reward positively for NOT doing something like this. If you mention it you

remind him and he will do it, if you don't mention it he doesn't know what he would get for not doing it. VERY CONFUSING. I just wanted you to know where my thought process is and I would really appreciate hearing anything you find out!!!! You are such a sweetheart, Kellie

From: Two Blessings <ljdjd1234yahoo (DOT) com>To: AutismBehaviorProbl emsyahoogroups (DOT) comSent: Monday, February 9, 2009 8:19:21 AMSubject: Re: another gross thing happening! Need advice

Hi, Kellie... gags himself -- it is a sensory thing, feels good to gag. We, because of his age, were able to remove chew sticks and other stuff that he would use to gag. Obviously has found a way to get that feeling in an area you don't have any control of...that's what makes it tricky. I'm going to do some research for you today...I'm going to as my OT, she is absolutely fantastic.

Regarding the consequence. ..what about saying every day that you don't do this, you get a something that in the end gets you something at Target...I know he likes Target...sometimes I've had to do a reward often at first, like every other day, then as the situation improves I do it less frequently, but by this time the inappropriate behavior is almost non-existent. ..I only know this from Lily........

OK, I'm on a mission today! I'll get back to you.

e

From: "folkangelymail (DOT) com" <folkangelymail (DOT) com>To: AutismBehaviorProbl emsyahoogroups (DOT) comSent: Monday, February 9, 2009 6:57:04 AMSubject: another gross thing happening! Need advice

Hi Everyone,It just seems like I'm always talking about bodily fluid or function issues!!! just seems to be at a very weird stage where this is concerned. O.K. here goes. Ever since he has been spending 2 hours a day in the self contained class at school he has been making himself vomit a little in his mouth all day long. He makes that awful vomit sound and then swallows it. There is another boy in this class that does this so I know where it comes from but I just don't know what to do about it. It has gotten so bad that he smells like vomit all the time. He doesn't care if it gets on his shirt or if some is around his mouth. It is so gross. The other day he did it and ended up pukeing on the kitchen floor. He actually fought me when I was trying to clean it up. He wanted to lick it off the floor. We were trying extinction but this didn't work. It just got worse. At school they told him to

say excuse me so he does but it is not stopping. I am trying to think of something that is a negative to do everytime but I'm not sure what. I have been trying to make him brush his teeth everytime he does this but he doesn't seem to care. Any advice or help from someone who has seen this or something similar would be greatly appreciated! ! Thanks Kellie

[Guest guest]

Oh Kellie! I am so sorry this is happening. I dont know what to tell you because I have not dealt with it. I hope you get some good advice here. I know this is hard. The only thing that started doing that he picked up from another child is blowing spit bubbles and also spitting too. And the more I would tell him to stop that it is not nice, the more he would do it. So, I try to ignore, but if we are out in public, that is hard to do because people stare. you know how that is I am sure, just as we all do. Anyhow, i hope that someone can help you with this. I feel for you and i am here for you.

Stacie

Hi Everyone,It just seems like I'm always talking about bodily fluid or function issues!!! just seems to be at a very weird stage where this is concerned. O.K. here goes. Ever since he has been spending 2 hours a day in the self contained class at school he has been making himself vomit a little in his mouth all day long. He makes that awful vomit sound and then swallows it. There is another boy in this class that does this so I know where it comes from but I just don't know what to do about it. It has gotten so bad that he smells like vomit all the time. He doesn't care if it gets on his shirt or if some is around his mouth. It is so gross. The other day he did it and ended up pukeing on the kitchen floor. He actually fought me when I was trying to clean it up. He wanted to lick it off the floor. We were trying extinction but this didn't work. It just got worse. At school they told him to say excuse me so he does but it is not stopping. I am trying to think of something that is a negative to do everytime but I'm not sure what. I have been trying to make him brush his teeth everytime he does this but he doesn't seem to care. Any advice or help from someone who has seen this or something similar would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks Kellie

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