OT - For the Single Women

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/29/00 6:32:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

Susiational@... writes:

<< http://www.pioneerplanet.com/columnists/docs/BILLINGS/docs/034773.htm >>

That was a great article Susi!! Thanks for sharing it. There are times when I

envy single people, LOL!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 08/29/2000 6:31:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

Susiational@... writes:

> http://www.pioneerplanet.com/columnists/docs/BILLINGS/docs/034773.htm

<A

HREF= " http://www.pioneerplanet.com/columnists/docs/BILLINGS/docs/034773.htm " >T

his generation of women know singlehood is powerful (8/27/2000)</A>

ok not a Single Woman but read it anyway and am glad I did cuz being the mom

of a gay young man, it was reassuring to see that marriage was not the

ultimate goal of many other folks who are str8. BTW the following paragraph

mirrors the sentiments of social critics against homosexuality as well:

<<So now that staying single after 30 no longer bears the ``spinster''

stigma, social critics are already coming forward to complain that this trend

will ruin the family, lower the birth rate, emasculate men, raise the minimum

wage, and all the other evils heaped at the door of feminism.>>

Barb

who just doesn't get why some people feel they have to control the lives of

others

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/29/00 5:26:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

Horsemom2@... writes:

<< ok not a Single Woman but read it anyway and am glad I did cuz being the

mom

of a gay young man, it was reassuring to see that marriage was not the

ultimate goal of many other folks who are str8.>>

What I find ironic is that many gay couples I know would *want* to get

married, which anti-gay rhetoric-makers can't reconcile with their vision of

homosexuality as depraved, disease-spreading and against family values. Hell,

here in NYC I know more stable, long-term gay relationships than I do of

straight ones!

--acey

[Guest guest]

My dad found pointed this article out to me. I've noticed a few

women lamenting the fact that they are single, myself included. Here

is a different approach:

http://www.pioneerplanet.com/columnists/docs/BILLINGS/docs/034773.htm

Susi

who isn't sure how to put a link in, so you can just cut and paste if

this didn't work

[Guest guest]

I would not really call this " lamenting " . its a fact that some of us

are alone and its bad enough to hear everybody's married with kids

and

boyfriends for so many years... sorry but thats my point on that...

lucie

who just ..... oh well.. :-(((

> My dad found pointed this article out to me. I've noticed a few

> women lamenting the fact that they are single, myself included.

Here

> is a different approach:

>

>

http://www.pioneerplanet.com/columnists/docs/BILLINGS/docs/034773.htm

>

> Susi

> who isn't sure how to put a link in, so you can just cut and paste

if

> this didn't work

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/29/00 5:25:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

Horsemom2@... writes:

<< Barb

who just doesn't get why some people feel they have to control the lives of

others >>

No kidding. This is probably my biggest pet peeve ever!

It's like we all have to fit into some kind of mold or people feel they have

the right to judge you. I'm not gay, but have plenty of friends who are and

it's sickening to see the way they are treated at times.

In my own life, I have been engaged for 3.5 years. I also do not have a

ring, because I do not want one (though we will both have wedding bands). It

is amazing the people I meet who feel they need to tell me that I'm not

really engaged and my SO should put his money where his mouth is. Nevermind

that this is a partnership and that WE choose when we get married and if I

have an engagement ring.

We will be married next year (we'll both be 26 and will have been enaged for

almost 5 years). So I guess the quote Barb shares doesn't apply to me. BUT

I will be having my children probably late 20's, early 30's. So I guess I'm

part of the problem. <sarcasm>

Anyways, I say people should live their own lives, as long as it doesn't hurt

them or others.

~Kat, who vented a bit because of this one woman's voiced opinion about her

engagement recently (wedding date 11-24-00!!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/29/00 7:03:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, slowens@...

writes:

<< I hope that you are able to find some peace

being single

>>

That was an excellent post, ! ITA!

~Kat, who learned a lot about herself the year she took off from dating

[Guest guest]

Wether I look or not... still the same.. I don't think people can

understand the way I do. Too many details to tell and I dont want to

say all of those on here... some words would be just to harsh...

lucie

who's sorry to go on about how " single " she is

> In a message dated 8/29/00 7:21:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> nrgizerbnyrabit31@y... writes:

>

> << would not really call this " lamenting " . its a fact that some of

us

> are alone and its bad enough to hear everybody's married with kids

> and

> boyfriends for so many years... sorry but thats my point on that...

> >>

>

> Lucie,

> Once you stop looking you will find someone. That is how it always

happens.

>

[Guest guest]

> I would not really call this " lamenting " . its a fact that some of

us

> are alone and its bad enough to hear everybody's married with kids

> and

> boyfriends for so many years... sorry but thats my point on that...

>

> lucie

> who just ..... oh well.. :-(((

>

I apologize if the use of the word " lamenting " sounded offensive. It

certainly was not my intention. Maybe I should have just

said " talking about the fact. "

Susi

who was trying to provide a counter-approach to the topic

[Guest guest]

> Wether I look or not... still the same.. I don't think people can

> understand the way I do. Too many details to tell and I dont want

to

> say all of those on here... some words would be just to harsh...

>

> lucie

> who's sorry to go on about how " single " she is

>

Lucie,

My posting the article didn't have to do with you " going on about how

single you are. " Since I have been on these boards, I have talked

openly about the fact that I am not single and volunteered myself (in

jest) to be " set up " from time to time (ask if I asked who

she was inviting to her wedding), as have you and so many others.

I'm sorry you took my post so personally.

Susi

[Guest guest]

> I would not really call this " lamenting " . its a fact that some of

us

> are alone and its bad enough to hear everybody's married with kids

> and

> boyfriends for so many years... sorry but thats my point on that...

Lucie,

I've been reading your replies to these messages about single women

and I feel that I have to reply to what you have been saying. I hope

that what I have to say comes out right. I understand that you are

not happy being single. Most of us are searching (or have found)

that special someone that we will spend the rest of our lives with.

Some of us find that person when we are 16, some of us find them when

we are 30, some of us find them when we are 60 and some of us think

we found that person only to realize that we were wrong! My point is

that you have no way of knowing when you will meet that special

someone! But, I just don't think it's fair for you to say that you

deserve to meet someone before someone else simply because you are

older than that person. That's just not how it works. We all meet

people at different times in our life. Yes, some people are lucky

and meet the person of their dreams at a young age. Yes, it may seem

that everyone around you has someone....that they have a

family....that they are happy. And that may be what you want to

have....what you are searching for. But, you can't let that rule

your life. You can't go around saying " oh, if only I found

someone...my life would be so much better " or " oh it's so unfair that

I'm single...that I'm alone..if only I could find someone I would be

complete " . It's sort of the same philosophy as losing weight.....you

think your life will be so much better when you get to that " perfect

weight " or " my problems will be solved when I lose 20, 30, 40 lbs. "

That's not the way it works. You have to learn to be happy with who

you are right now. You have to be able to say " you know what, I'm

single and although that's not exactly what I would choose for myself

right now....that's the way it is " . You can either be bitter about

the fact that you are single and tell everyone how unfair it is or

you can accept where you are in your life right now and work on being

happy with you. I guess it's just that I see some real bitterness

and almost an anger at the fact that you are single in your replies

and that worries me. I understand that you don't want to be single

and that's ok....it's ok to want to meet someone and to want to fall

in love and to want to have a family.....most of us want that for

ourselves. But, it's like you are searching for it too hard! And,

as many of us can attest.....it's when you stop searching and start

focusing on yourself that love seems to fall into your lap. Maybe

you could just try to gain some perspective about being single and

come to some sort of acceptance about it! It doesn't mean you have

to stop looking, but maybe you could work a little bit on being happy

with what you have been given in life. We all have things we have to

deal with....some of us are single, some of us are married, some of

us are divorced....we've all been dealt a different hand and we have

to live with what we've been given. Do you deserve to be single?

It's not really a question of deserving or not deserving....it's just

the way it is! You may meet the man of your dreams tomorrow...you

might meet him in ten years! You have no way of knowing what's in

store for you. But, for now, you have to learn to live with being

single and while you don't have to be happy about that fact...you do

have to find some sort of peace or acceptance about it. Otherwise,

the bitterness, the anger, the pain you feel because you are single

will creep into all the other aspects of your life....it will define

who you are more than it should. I hope that this is making sense

and that I am not offending you because that is not my intention.

You might be thinking " well, it's easy for you to say all these

things because you have found someone that you love and you have a

daughter " but I would like to think that I would feel the same way if

I was single. That I would be happy with who I was and that I could

still find happiness in my life without someone else. And that's

what I hope for you.....that these years that you are alone will

still be happy for you. I hope you meet someone wonderful someday,

but in the meantime, I hope that you are able to find some peace

being single

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 08/30/2000 10:09:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

janou_pou@... writes:

> After reading this article, I thought: " Wow, I'm in fact single! "

> and I'm not the only one. I don't have to lie about my intentions

> any more!

>

> Janick

> who just broke her pledge of staying in lurk mode

Janick is out of the closet LOL

Actually, I think you are making a very wise decision considering your

finances and observations

I'm quite upset this morning cuz I got a phonecall from an ex-coworker that

she and her husband were separating after a few short years which brought 2

young children. This woman was one of the nicest women I have ever met and it

breaks my heart that the man of her dreams turned into a nightmare. To

complicate the matter they are Muslims (Indian) but this woman refused to

accept her husband's disrespect, not wanting her children (a boy and a girl)

brought up with no respect for women or their mom.

Barb

who thinks sometimes the single life can be the less lonelier one if someone

has the right attitude and knows many lonely married women

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/30/00 7:35:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, slowens@...

writes:

<<

who always said she hated long engagements and has now been engaged

for 3 1/2 years...LOL >>

Me too!

Since March 9, 1997. How about you?

~Kat, whose 4 year anniversary (since we got together) is next weekend

( and I were also very close friends for 2 years before we started

dating)

[Guest guest]

I loved this article Susi... You all know that I've been saying that

I'm engaged to be married?? Ok, well, I kinda distorted the truth a

bit. Although we have been engaged, I have no intentions of getting

married (which kind of defies the purpose of being engaged). I'm

financially independent and Gilbert is partially dependent on me. If

we get married and then get divorced, he goes off with half of my

belongings (which includes the house, which is in my name, all my

mutual funds). I didn't mention my intentions to you guys before,

because I was scared of the reaction you would have (for some reason,

I thought that american women were against cohabitation, because in

Quebec it is extremely popular).

After reading this article, I thought: " Wow, I'm in fact single! "

and I'm not the only one. I don't have to lie about my intentions

any more!

Janick

who just broke her pledge of staying in lurk mode

[Guest guest]

> After reading this article, I thought: " Wow, I'm in fact single! "

> and I'm not the only one. I don't have to lie about my intentions

> any more!

Janick,

I totally understand where you are coming from! I am in sort of the

same situation because of all the money I have from my parents and

Bob having so many debts. When we do get married, there will be a

pre-nup agreement stating that what is mine before the wedding (my

parents money) is mine and can't be used or gone after by Bob's

debtors. Although I do plan to marry Bob one day....it is definitely

something I worry about (you should see my will....LOL...it's a

little complicated)! Bob has not exactly been the most responsible

of people and it one of the things that causes stress in our

relationship! So, I totally understand where you are coming from and

I feel the same as you....there is nothing wrong with

cohabitation

who always said she hated long engagements and has now been engaged

for 3 1/2 years...LOL

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/30/00 10:53:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

janou_pou@... writes:

<< You are lucky that you

can have a pre-nup agreement. It is against the law in Quebec! >>

I will come out of my semi lurk mode to give you my opinion on marriage.

Politicians love to push the " marriage creates families " mumbo jumbo. My

husband and I had our first child out of wedlock. We got married when she was

15 months old. Did that piece of paper create a family? No! We were already a

family because the love and commitment were there. The only thing that piece

of paper has brought me is higher taxes and a harder time getting financial

aid for school. I was denied a child care grant, even though I was well below

the income requirements, because I have a husband that works. If anything, it

has made things harder! Now, I am not downing marriage! I love marriage and

weddings and all of that stuff. But a legal document, in my eyes, does not

define the relationship or the level of commitment. The love defines the

relationship, not a piece of paper.

who got married for the cake, LOL just kidding

[Guest guest]

When we do get married, there will be a

> pre-nup agreement stating that what is mine before the wedding (my

> parents money) is mine and can't be used or gone after by Bob's

> debtors. Although I do plan to marry Bob one day....it is

definitely

> something I worry about (you should see my will....LOL...it's a

> little complicated)! Bob has not exactly been the most responsible

> of people and it one of the things that causes stress in our

> relationship!

,

We are in a very similar situation indeed. You are lucky that you

can have a pre-nup agreement. It is against the law in Quebec! I

really love Gilbert and I do intend on living the rest of my life

with him. But I've seen so many divorces gone bad... not getting

married is a way for me to not get screwed when the things get

tough. After all, I have worked VERY hard to get where I am, and I

don't want to lose it. Gilbert is also not very good at

responsibility (money wise). He is an impulsive buyer, and that also

scares me a bit. However, we have discussed this, and he knows and

understands how I feel. Even if we have had many pressures (from his

family) to get married, we have decided not to (to my parents relief,

because they think like I do).

Janick

who thinks that it is a shame that marriage has to be that way

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 08/30/2000 2:49:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

Agaw12577@... writes:

> who got married for the cake, LOL

hm

maybe that is why I married twice?

Barb

who never would have married husband #1 if we had lived together first even

for a dream cake cuz he literally transformed on our wedding night from a

doting husband-to-be to a man determined never to appear henpecked

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/30/00 11:49:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

Agaw12577@... writes:

<< But a legal document, in my eyes, does not

define the relationship or the level of commitment. The love defines the

relationship, not a piece of paper. >>

EXACTLY!

That is how I think of it too. and I all ready are a family (and so

far we have 2 feline children! . Our wedding will be a fun party and a

nice way of seeing family and friends.

Our love will not change on that day-it'll keep growing daily, just like it

does now. The only new thing (besides the money/taxes crap), will be that I

get to call Trav " hubby " !

My wedding is not going to be very typical. Let's just say, my mom is making

me have a wedding cake. So, as you can see, I will not be doing everything

traditional (but yes, I gave in to her about the cake). and I have

decided to make this a fun day and not a day of stress. So whatever happens,

happens!

~Kat

[Guest guest]

Janick, I'm glad you broke your pledge. =)

I'm not sure about everybody else here, but the Americans in my

generation are not against cohabitation. HOWEVER, my mother sure

is! =))

Susi

who has done the cohabitation " thing " twice in her life and enjoys

both living alone and living with a man

Phew! Glad I am not the only one!!!

Who had a live-in fiance before . But he had a non-live-in girlfriend :-*

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 08/30/2000 3:57:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

TheTaeBoWay@... writes:

> My wedding is not going to be very typical. Let's just say, my mom is

making

>

> me have a wedding cake. So, as you can see, I will not be doing

everything

> traditional (but yes, I gave in to her about the cake). and I have

> decided to make this a fun day and not a day of stress. So whatever

happens,

>

> happens!

hey how about a reception at the WTC?

hehehehehe

Barb

who meets tomorrow!!!!

[Guest guest]

> <<

> who always said she hated long engagements and has now been

engaged

> for 3 1/2 years...LOL >>

>

> Me too!

>

> Since March 9, 1997. How about you?

>

> ~Kat, whose 4 year anniversary (since we got together) is next

weekend

> ( and I were also very close friends for 2 years before we

started

> dating)

I just realized that me and Gilbert have been engaged for 6 years!!!

Janick

who is amazed at how time flies by

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/30/2000 4:55:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

Horsemom2@... writes:

<<

Barb

who meets tomorrow!!!!

>>

Cool! Enjoy yourselves. My bet is that it will be non-stop talking.

Elena

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/30/00 2:16:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

ravin@... writes:

<< But being 20/21

living together I think is a little different then even at 25. >>

It is different. Trav and I moved in together when we were 22 and there's a

big difference from then to now.

I went straight from living in a dorm/apartment with a college friend to

living with Trav. I've always wondered what it would have been like if I

lived on my own for a few years and *then* moved in with him. I would think

that would be more complicated, since we'd have specific routines. I dunno.

~Kat

[Guest guest]

Janick, I'm glad you broke your pledge. =)

I'm not sure about everybody else here, but the Americans in my

generation are not against cohabitation. HOWEVER, my mother sure

is! =))

Susi

who has done the cohabitation " thing " twice in her life and enjoys

both living alone and living with a man

> I loved this article Susi... You all know that I've been saying

that

> I'm engaged to be married?? Ok, well, I kinda distorted the truth

a

> bit. Although we have been engaged, I have no intentions of

getting

> married (which kind of defies the purpose of being engaged). I'm

> financially independent and Gilbert is partially dependent on me.

If

> we get married and then get divorced, he goes off with half of my

> belongings (which includes the house, which is in my name, all my

> mutual funds). I didn't mention my intentions to you guys before,

> because I was scared of the reaction you would have (for some

reason,

> I thought that american women were against cohabitation, because in

> Quebec it is extremely popular).

>

> After reading this article, I thought: " Wow, I'm in fact single! "

> and I'm not the only one. I don't have to lie about my intentions

> any more!

>

> Janick

> who just broke her pledge of staying in lurk mode