Re: Re: not adding our own opinions and TWO other items

[Guest guest]

We have twins also, fraternal boys, who will be 14 tomorrow! Time flies. When they were born, our older two (also boys!) were 4 and 2. I never remember being able to nap (sadly), but nursing was very successful for us--thanks to being blessed with a good milk supply and "easy" boys as far as nursing went. I loved it. We never needed pacifiers, and I worked only 15 hours a month, and was able to pump to cover that time and my husband would feed them. I was so happy I never needed to make a drop of formula for them, and they gradually dropped off frequency and weaned just at age 2. Despite not being EBF, due to the frequency of nursing two and pumping my scant hours away, I didn't have return of menses until they were well over a year.

I too found it hard to find others who had successfully nursed twins for that long. One episode I do remember--at the hospital where I delivered, a nursing assistant came in to help me position them for a 1am feed, and commented why she never could understand how anyone would try to breastfeed twins. Not exactly encouraging words, and ones that were reported the next day to the very nice lactation consultant when she visited.

The two other items:

1) Prayer request--one of our STM instructors in Cville has a newborn daughter who just had open heart surgery today to begin repair of a congenital heart defect. Please pray for her swift recovery, and for her next surgery in probably 6-9 months.

2) The Richmond Diocese has a NFP page on Facebook if anyone is interested...if you type Richmond NFP in the search, you'll find us!

Thanks!

D. Poehailos, MD

Family Physician

STM Instructor/Instructor Trainer, Charlottesville VA

NFP Coordinator, Catholic Diocese of Richmond VA

To: nfpprofessionals Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 2:42:10 PMSubject: Re: Re: not adding our own opinions

I can give my experience with twins. My fourth and fifth child were fraternal twins, a girl and a boy. I tried to find a way to co-sleep but I sure couldn't figure it out. I did end up sleeping a great deal sitting up on the couch, in my "nest", with the "C" pillow. In fact for years I had a hard time not falling asleep immediately when sitting on the couch due to the association! Daytime napping, other than the cat naps I took there, did not happen with three other children and homeschooling. I remember the morning I woke up and found I had been allowed to sleep for five straight hours and it had been a year since I last had; since the last two months of the pregnancy. I returned to fertility at 14 and half months after returning to fertility with the other children at 10 months. I did not use pacifiers and limited the baby swing to one 15 minute session a day. I tried to find others at the time who had successfully breastfed twins for the duration and I couldn't find even one. There were several moms who after having nursed for (maybe) 3-4 months would drop one twin to a bottle and continued on with the easier baby. My twins were child-led weaned at around 2 and a half years. I did have the help of two older daughters, age 10 and 13 at their birth.I do not say all this to pat myself on the back, but to encourage anyone who finds themselves with twins. It was only through the grace of God and much prayer and offering every bit of the pain/inconvenience and numbness. Please do encourage anyone with twins to fight the battle; it is worth it, just like it is with a single baby.Penny on

Pam, thanks for an excellent response.

Regarding naps and nursing two babies, this email on naps came to this list on Jan. 25, 2011 from Palmer:

"As a doula and an NFP teacher, I have worked with several mothers of twins who have nursed exclusively. The single most important factor in the return of cycles for these moms has been whether or not they could lay down during the day for a nap. Neither pacifier use nor nighttime feedings is as predictive as napping. For those who did nap - even for as little as 30 minutes - the menses was delayed beyond a year. For those who did not, nearly all experienced the return of cycles before 6 months. It's not gold standard research, but it is a remarkable trend I have noticed over the past 10 years."

I did a survey of those mothers who said they did eco-bf and had an early return around 3 months postpartum. I don't have that research in front of me, but I remember that none of those moms who replied did the daily nap (at least 30 minutes of napping or resting). Four of those moms were nursing two and figured the extra nursing would give them a long amenorrhea, but they had an early return. Only 3 of those 4 who were nursing two babies (tandem nursing was involved also) responded to my inquiry but those three did not do the nap.

For naps I used to nurse my baby with my 2 and 4 year old in bed with me. They knew if one of them was awake 30 minutes later I would get up with that person. But usually everyone got in a short nap.

One mother told me when she naps, she lies across the entry/exit to the room. That way if anyone leaves, they have to crawl over her body to leave and wake her up. Another mother of 7 closed off the room and nursed on the floor. Little ones who were not napping played with quiet toys.

When we started our family all my friends (bottlefeeding or breastfeeding) took the phone off the hook and napped with their kids. There were no answering machines in those days. There are plenty of books now advocating the nap (titles mentioned in The Seven Standards) and certainly, as UNICEF says, "breastfeeding can be an opportunity for a mother to take a few minutes of much-needed rest." Unfortunately for some mothers, taking a nap is a time when mom does not relax as she is thinking about all the things she can get done as soon as baby falls asleep and she can get up.

BTW, all recently published books on breastfeeding, the NFP manual, and Battle-Scarred ('s memoirs) are 40% off now at lulu.com during NFP Week and World Breastfeeding Week.

Sheila K. KippleyNFP Internationalwww.NFPandmore.org The Seven Standards of Ecological BreastfeedingBreastfeeding and Catholic Motherhood

Re: not adding our own opinions

Dr. Pedulla,I just want to clarify the point that choosing not to ecologically breastfeed does not equate to letting a child cry it out or not meeting his needs. Some mothers may choose to cry it out, and whether I agree with this parenting philosophy or not still doesn't make it a moral choice. There are several points of the 7 Standards that I don't follow, including cosleeping. However, I nurse them on demand and I have never let my babies "cry it out". It's not as black and white as you make it.> As a Catholic who used and taught NFP primarily for religious reasons I've followed the recent discussions with sadness. I think part of these conflicts couples have are our fault. NFP is difficult and requires a good deal of self-control. It means acknowledging that God is God and that we follow His instructions and His example. However, I also feel strongly that we have no right to insist, or even imply, that God requires everyone to ecologically breastfeed or to homeschool. Let's stick to what the Catechism says about God's law and not our personal interpretations.> > peace and prayers,> Gaes> > ------------------------------------> >

[Guest guest]

Glad you’re hanging in, ! Hanna From: nfpprofessionals [mailto:nfpprofessionals ] On Behalf Of kdpoehailos@...Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 3:15 PMTo: nfpprofessionals Subject: Re: Re: not adding our own opinions and TWO other items We have twins also, fraternal boys, who will be 14 tomorrow! Time flies. When they were born, our older two (also boys!) were 4 and 2. I never remember being able to nap (sadly), but nursing was very successful for us--thanks to being blessed with a good milk supply and " easy " boys as far as nursing went. I loved it. We never needed pacifiers, and I worked only 15 hours a month, and was able to pump to cover that time and my husband would feed them. I was so happy I never needed to make a drop of formula for them, and they gradually dropped off frequency and weaned just at age 2. Despite not being EBF, due to the frequency of nursing two and pumping my scant hours away, I didn't have return of menses until they were well over a year. I too found it hard to find others who had successfully nursed twins for that long. One episode I do remember--at the hospital where I delivered, a nursing assistant came in to help me position them for a 1am feed, and commented why she never could understand how anyone would try to breastfeed twins. Not exactly encouraging words, and ones that were reported the next day to the very nice lactation consultant when she visited. The two other items: 1) Prayer request--one of our STM instructors in Cville has a newborn daughter who just had open heart surgery today to begin repair of a congenital heart defect. Please pray for her swift recovery, and for her next surgery in probably 6-9 months. 2) The Richmond Diocese has a NFP page on Facebook if anyone is interested...if you type Richmond NFP in the search, you'll find us! Thanks! D. Poehailos, MDFamily PhysicianSTM Instructor/Instructor Trainer, Charlottesville VANFP Coordinator, Catholic Diocese of Richmond VA To: nfpprofessionals Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 2:42:10 PMSubject: Re: Re: not adding our own opinions I can give my experience with twins. My fourth and fifth child were fraternal twins, a girl and a boy. I tried to find a way to co-sleep but I sure couldn't figure it out. I did end up sleeping a great deal sitting up on the couch, in my " nest " , with the " C " pillow. In fact for years I had a hard time not falling asleep immediately when sitting on the couch due to the association! Daytime napping, other than the cat naps I took there, did not happen with three other children and homeschooling. I remember the morning I woke up and found I had been allowed to sleep for five straight hours and it had been a year since I last had; since the last two months of the pregnancy. I returned to fertility at 14 and half months after returning to fertility with the other children at 10 months. I did not use pacifiers and limited the baby swing to one 15 minute session a day. I tried to find others at the time who had successfully breastfed twins for the duration and I couldn't find even one. There were several moms who after having nursed for (maybe) 3-4 months would drop one twin to a bottle and continued on with the easier baby. My twins were child-led weaned at around 2 and a half years. I did have the help of two older daughters, age 10 and 13 at their birth.I do not say all this to pat myself on the back, but to encourage anyone who finds themselves with twins. It was only through the grace of God and much prayer and offering every bit of the pain/inconvenience and numbness. Please do encourage anyone with twins to fight the battle; it is worth it, just like it is with a single baby.Penny on Pam, thanks for an excellent response. Regarding naps and nursing two babies, this email on naps came to this list on Jan. 25, 2011 from Palmer: " As a doula and an NFP teacher, I have worked with several mothers of twins who have nursed exclusively. The single most important factor in the return of cycles for these moms has been whether or not they could lay down during the day for a nap. Neither pacifier use nor nighttime feedings is as predictive as napping. For those who did nap - even for as little as 30 minutes - the menses was delayed beyond a year. For those who did not, nearly all experienced the return of cycles before 6 months. It's not gold standard research, but it is a remarkable trend I have noticed over the past 10 years. " I did a survey of those mothers who said they did eco-bf and had an early return around 3 months postpartum. I don't have that research in front of me, but I remember that none of those moms who replied did the daily nap (at least 30 minutes of napping or resting). Four of those moms were nursing two and figured the extra nursing would give them a long amenorrhea, but they had an early return. Only 3 of those 4 who were nursing two babies (tandem nursing was involved also) responded to my inquiry but those three did not do the nap. For naps I used to nurse my baby with my 2 and 4 year old in bed with me. They knew if one of them was awake 30 minutes later I would get up with that person. But usually everyone got in a short nap. One mother told me when she naps, she lies across the entry/exit to the room. That way if anyone leaves, they have to crawl over her body to leave and wake her up. Another mother of 7 closed off the room and nursed on the floor. Little ones who were not napping played with quiet toys. When we started our family all my friends (bottlefeeding or breastfeeding) took the phone off the hook and napped with their kids. There were no answering machines in those days. There are plenty of books now advocating the nap (titles mentioned in The Seven Standards) and certainly, as UNICEF says, " breastfeeding can be an opportunity for a mother to take a few minutes of much-needed rest. " Unfortunately for some mothers, taking a nap is a time when mom does not relax as she is thinking about all the things she can get done as soon as baby falls asleep and she can get up. BTW, all recently published books on breastfeeding, the NFP manual, and Battle-Scarred ('s memoirs) are 40% off now at lulu.com during NFP Week and World Breastfeeding Week.Sheila K. KippleyNFP Internationalwww.NFPandmore.org The Seven Standards of Ecological BreastfeedingBreastfeeding and Catholic Motherhood Re: not adding our own opinions Dr. Pedulla,I just want to clarify the point that choosing not to ecologically breastfeed does not equate to letting a child cry it out or not meeting his needs. Some mothers may choose to cry it out, and whether I agree with this parenting philosophy or not still doesn't make it a moral choice. There are several points of the 7 Standards that I don't follow, including cosleeping. However, I nurse them on demand and I have never let my babies " cry it out " . It's not as black and white as you make it.> As a Catholic who used and taught NFP primarily for religious reasons I've followed the recent discussions with sadness. I think part of these conflicts couples have are our fault. NFP is difficult and requires a good deal of self-control. It means acknowledging that God is God and that we follow His instructions and His example. However, I also feel strongly that we have no right to insist, or even imply, that God requires everyone to ecologically breastfeed or to homeschool. Let's stick to what the Catechism says about God's law and not our personal interpretations.> > peace and prayers,> Gaes> > ------------------------------------> >

[Guest guest]

Ruth Deddens, Chairman of One More Soul's Bd of Trustees, and mother of 9, breastfed quads.To: nfpprofessionals From: hannaklaus@...Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 15:28:02 -0400Subject: RE: Re: not adding our own opinions and TWO other items

Glad you’re hanging in, ! Hanna From: nfpprofessionals [mailto:nfpprofessionals ] On Behalf Of kdpoehailos@...Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 3:15 PMTo: nfpprofessionals Subject: Re: Re: not adding our own opinions and TWO other items We have twins also, fraternal boys, who will be 14 tomorrow! Time flies. When they were born, our older two (also boys!) were 4 and 2. I never remember being able to nap (sadly), but nursing was very successful for us--thanks to being blessed with a good milk supply and "easy" boys as far as nursing went. I loved it. We never needed pacifiers, and I worked only 15 hours a month, and was able to pump to cover that time and my husband would feed them. I was so happy I never needed to make a drop of formula for them, and they gradually dropped off frequency and weaned just at age 2. Despite not being EBF, due to the frequency of nursing two and pumping my scant hours away, I didn't have return of menses until they were well over a year. I too found it hard to find others who had successfully nursed twins for that long. One episode I do remember--at the hospital where I delivered, a nursing assistant came in to help me position them for a 1am feed, and commented why she never could understand how anyone would try to breastfeed twins. Not exactly encouraging words, and ones that were reported the next day to the very nice lactation consultant when she visited. The two other items: 1) Prayer request--one of our STM instructors in Cville has a newborn daughter who just had open heart surgery today to begin repair of a congenital heart defect. Please pray for her swift recovery, and for her next surgery in probably 6-9 months. 2) The Richmond Diocese has a NFP page on Facebook if anyone is interested...if you type Richmond NFP in the search, you'll find us! Thanks! D. Poehailos, MDFamily PhysicianSTM Instructor/Instructor Trainer, Charlottesville VANFP Coordinator, Catholic Diocese of Richmond VA To: nfpprofessionals Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 2:42:10 PMSubject: Re: Re: not adding our own opinions I can give my experience with twins. My fourth and fifth child were fraternal twins, a girl and a boy. I tried to find a way to co-sleep but I sure couldn't figure it out. I did end up sleeping a great deal sitting up on the couch, in my "nest", with the "C" pillow. In fact for years I had a hard time not falling asleep immediately when sitting on the couch due to the association! Daytime napping, other than the cat naps I took there, did not happen with three other children and homeschooling. I remember the morning I woke up and found I had been allowed to sleep for five straight hours and it had been a year since I last had; since the last two months of the pregnancy. I returned to fertility at 14 and half months after returning to fertility with the other children at 10 months. I did not use pacifiers and limited the baby swing to one 15 minute session a day. I tried to find others at the time who had successfully breastfed twins for the duration and I couldn't find even one. There were several moms who after having nursed for (maybe) 3-4 months would drop one twin to a bottle and continued on with the easier baby. My twins were child-led weaned at around 2 and a half years. I did have the help of two older daughters, age 10 and 13 at their birth.I do not say all this to pat myself on the back, but to encourage anyone who finds themselves with twins. It was only through the grace of God and much prayer and offering every bit of the pain/inconvenience and numbness. Please do encourage anyone with twins to fight the battle; it is worth it, just like it is with a single baby.Penny on Pam, thanks for an excellent response. Regarding naps and nursing two babies, this email on naps came to this list on Jan. 25, 2011 from Palmer:"As a doula and an NFP teacher, I have worked with several mothers of twins who have nursed exclusively. The single most important factor in the return of cycles for these moms has been whether or not they could lay down during the day for a nap. Neither pacifier use nor nighttime feedings is as predictive as napping. For those who did nap - even for as little as 30 minutes - the menses was delayed beyond a year. For those who did not, nearly all experienced the return of cycles before 6 months. It's not gold standard research, but it is a remarkable trend I have noticed over the past 10 years." I did a survey of those mothers who said they did eco-bf and had an early return around 3 months postpartum. I don't have that research in front of me, but I remember that none of those moms who replied did the daily nap (at least 30 minutes of napping or resting). Four of those moms were nursing two and figured the extra nursing would give them a long amenorrhea, but they had an early return. Only 3 of those 4 who were nursing two babies (tandem nursing was involved also) responded to my inquiry but those three did not do the nap. For naps I used to nurse my baby with my 2 and 4 year old in bed with me. They knew if one of them was awake 30 minutes later I would get up with that person. But usually everyone got in a short nap. One mother told me when she naps, she lies across the entry/exit to the room. That way if anyone leaves, they have to crawl over her body to leave and wake her up. Another mother of 7 closed off the room and nursed on the floor. Little ones who were not napping played with quiet toys. When we started our family all my friends (bottlefeeding or breastfeeding) took the phone off the hook and napped with their kids. There were no answering machines in those days. There are plenty of books now advocating the nap (titles mentioned in The Seven Standards) and certainly, as UNICEF says, "breastfeeding can be an opportunity for a mother to take a few minutes of much-needed rest." Unfortunately for some mothers, taking a nap is a time when mom does not relax as she is thinking about all the things she can get done as soon as baby falls asleep and she can get up. BTW, all recently published books on breastfeeding, the NFP manual, and Battle-Scarred ('s memoirs) are 40% off now at lulu.com during NFP Week and World Breastfeeding Week.Sheila K. KippleyNFP Internationalwww.NFPandmore.org The Seven Standards of Ecological BreastfeedingBreastfeeding and Catholic Motherhood Re: not adding our own opinions Dr. Pedulla,I just want to clarify the point that choosing not to ecologically breastfeed does not equate to letting a child cry it out or not meeting his needs. Some mothers may choose to cry it out, and whether I agree with this parenting philosophy or not still doesn't make it a moral choice. There are several points of the 7 Standards that I don't follow, including cosleeping. However, I nurse them on demand and I have never let my babies "cry it out". It's not as black and white as you make it.> As a Catholic who used and taught NFP primarily for religious reasons I've followed the recent discussions with sadness. I think part of these conflicts couples have are our fault. NFP is difficult and requires a good deal of self-control. It means acknowledging that God is God and that we follow His instructions and His example. However, I also feel strongly that we have no right to insist, or even imply, that God requires everyone to ecologically breastfeed or to homeschool. Let's stick to what the Catechism says about God's law and not our personal interpretations.> > peace and prayers,> Gaes> > ------------------------------------> >

[Guest guest]

Wow what a powerful story -- twins, no formula, no pacifier, no menses, no leisure (you were also working). And so it can be done, as we have been hearing. Do yo have any regrets in that other things might have suffered or wool you do the same if you had to do it all over again?

Sincerely yours,

Dominic M. Pedulla MD, FACC, CNFPMC, ABVM, ACPh

Interventional Cardiologist, Endovascular Diplomate, Varicose Vein Specialist, Noncontraceptive Family Planning Consultant, Family Planning Researcher

Medical Director, The Oklahoma Vein and Endovascular Center (www.noveinok.com, veininfo@...)

Executive Director, The Edith Stein Foundation (www.theedithsteinfoundation.com)

(office)

(cell)

(FAX)

pedullad@...

“Our fundamental purpose is not to go out and help the poor. For us, this has only been a means. Our purpose is to maintain the Catholic faith within us, and to allow its diffusion to others through the instrument of charity.†Blessed Frederic Ozanam, a 19th century founder of the Society of Saint De

Re: Re: not adding our own opinions

I can give my experience with twins. My fourth and fifth child were fraternal twins, a girl and a boy. I tried to find a way to co-sleep but I sure couldn't figure it out. I did end up sleeping a great deal sitting up on the couch, in my "nest", with the "C" pillow. In fact for years I had a hard time not falling asleep immediately when sitting on the couch due to the association! Daytime napping, other than the cat naps I took there, did not happen with three other children and homeschooling. I remember the morning I woke up and found I had been allowed to sleep for five straight hours and it had been a year since I last had; since the last two months of the pregnancy. I returned to fertility at 14 and half months after returning to fertility with the other children at 10 months. I did not use pacifiers and limited the baby swing to one 15 minute session a day. I tried to find others at the time who had successfully breastfed twins for the duration and I couldn't find even one. There were several moms who after having nursed for (maybe) 3-4 months would drop one twin to a bottle and continued on with the easier baby. My twins were child-led weaned at around 2 and a half years. I did have the help of two older daughters, age 10 and 13 at their birth.

I do not say all this to pat myself on the back, but to encourage anyone who finds themselves with twins. It was only through the grace of God and much prayer and offering every bit of the pain/inconvenience and numbness. Please do encourage anyone with twins to fight the battle; it is worth it, just like it is with a single baby.

Penny on

Pam, thanks for an excellent response.

Regarding naps and nursing two babies, this email on naps came to this list on Jan. 25, 2011 from Palmer:

"As a doula and an NFP teacher, I have worked with several mothers of twins who have nursed exclusively. The single most important factor in the return of cycles for these moms has been whether or not they could lay down during the day for a nap. Neither pacifier use nor nighttime feedings is as predictive as napping. For those who did nap - even for as little as 30 minutes - the menses was delayed beyond a year. For those who did not, nearly all experienced the return of cycles before 6 months. It's not gold standard research, but it is a remarkable trend I have noticed over the past 10 years."

I did a survey of those mothers who said they did eco-bf and had an early return around 3 months postpartum. I don't have that research in front of me, but I remember that none of those moms who replied did the daily nap (at least 30 minutes of napping or resting). Four of those moms were nursing two and figured the extra nursing would give them a long amenorrhea, but they had an early return. Only 3 of those 4 who were nursing two babies (tandem nursing was involved also) responded to my inquiry but those three did not do the nap.

For naps I used to nurse my baby with my 2 and 4 year old in bed with me. They knew if one of them was awake 30 minutes later I would get up with that person. But usually everyone got in a short nap.

One mother told me when she naps, she lies across the entry/exit to the room. That way if anyone leaves, they have to crawl over her body to leave and wake her up. Another mother of 7 closed off the room and nursed on the floor. Little ones who were not napping played with quiet toys.

When we started our family all my friends (bottlefeeding or breastfeeding) took the phone off the hook and napped with their kids. There were no answering machines in those days. There are plenty of books now advocating the nap (titles mentioned in The Seven Standards) and certainly, as UNICEF says, "breastfeeding can be an opportunity for a mother to take a few minutes of much-needed rest." Unfortunately for some mothers, taking a nap is a time when mom does not relax as she is thinking about all the things she can get done as soon as baby falls asleep and she can get up.

BTW, all recently published books on breastfeeding, the NFP manual, and Battle-Scarred ('s memoirs) are 40% off now at lulu.com during NFP Week and World Breastfeeding Week.

Sheila K. Kippley

NFP International

www.NFPandmore.org

The Seven Standards of Ecological Breastfeeding

Breastfeeding and Catholic Motherhood

Re: not adding our own opinions

Dr. Pedulla,

I just want to clarify the point that choosing not to ecologically breastfeed does not equate to letting a child cry it out or not meeting his needs. Some mothers may choose to cry it out, and whether I agree with this parenting philosophy or not still doesn't make it a moral choice. There are several points of the 7 Standards that I don't follow, including cosleeping. However, I nurse them on demand and I have never let my babies "cry it out". It's not as black and white as you make it.

> As a Catholic who used and taught NFP primarily for religious reasons I've followed the recent discussions with sadness. I think part of these conflicts couples have are our fault. NFP is difficult and requires a good deal of self-control. It means acknowledging that God is God and that we follow His instructions and His example. However, I also feel strongly that we have no right to insist, or even imply, that God requires everyone to ecologically breastfeed or to homeschool. Let's stick to what the Catechism says about God's law and not our personal interpretations.

>

> peace and prayers,

> Gaes

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Interesting question! "Working" was a very relative term then as far as my office time went. I was doing one 9 hour Saturday and one 6 hour Sunday only once a month. That was by my choice--I was fairly young in my practice of medicine (5 years out of residency) and didn't want a three year (that's how long I did that) gap appearing in my CV. And I was worried I'd forget everything while I was gone, and I had to do board recertification when the twins were a year old (and had to pump/dump during the exam.) My boss was very happy to have a doctor who wanted one weekend every month. I'm still at the same place--my office is inside of an urgent care.

To be honest, I felt I had the best of both worlds. I enjoyed some amazing years and quality time with my young sons--all four of them. We went to the playground, the park, the grocery store, and the children's museum, and all the at-home mom treasures. My triple stroller and I were inseparable for several years. I had one weekend a month to get to see patients, stay up to date on new meds, and not feel so panicked when I reentered practice seriously 16 hours a week when the twins started preschool.

Sleep (or lack thereof) was an issue--I never found a way to co-sleep with two, so often we'd alternate having one or the other in with us and the other in a bassinet or crib nearby. Those who know me say I'm a high energy person at baseline, so I made it through, but it was admittedly a challenge.

I was blessed with a wonderful milk supply and boys who were easy nursers--so I was able to keep my supply up (and could pump 10 oz or more in a 10 minute break between patients on my work days--with supportive coworkers who let me take that slot in peace.)

So, for me, I wouldn't have had it any other way--but I know each person's situation is different. I wish Bekah and all the twin moms out there the best--God's best blessings do sometimes come wrapped in challenges!

God bless,

To: nfpprofessionals Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 1:55:58 PMSubject: Re: Re: not adding our own opinions and TWO other items

Wow what a powerful story -- twins, no formula, no pacifier, no menses, no leisure (you were also working). And so it can be done, as we have been hearing. Do yo have any regrets in that other things might have suffered or wool you do the same if you had to do it all over again?

Sincerely yours, Dominic M. Pedulla MD, FACC, CNFPMC, ABVM, ACPhInterventional Cardiologist, Endovascular Diplomate, Varicose Vein Specialist, Noncontraceptive Family Planning Consultant, Family Planning ResearcherMedical Director, The Oklahoma Vein and Endovascular Center (www.noveinok.com, veininfo@...)Executive Director, The Edith Stein Foundation (www.theedithsteinfoundation.com) (office) (cell)

(FAX)pedullad@...

“Our fundamental purpose is not to go out and help the poor. For us, this has only been a means. Our purpose is to maintain the Catholic faith within us, and to allow its diffusion to others through the instrument of charity.†Blessed Frederic Ozanam, a 19th century founder of the Society of Saint De

Re: Re: not adding our own opinions

I can give my experience with twins. My fourth and fifth child were fraternal twins, a girl and a boy. I tried to find a way to co-sleep but I sure couldn't figure it out. I did end up sleeping a great deal sitting up on the couch, in my "nest", with the "C" pillow. In fact for years I had a hard time not falling asleep immediately when sitting on the couch due to the association! Daytime napping, other than the cat naps I took there, did not happen with three other children and homeschooling. I remember the morning I woke up and found I had been allowed to sleep for five straight hours and it had been a year since I last had; since the last two months of the pregnancy. I returned to fertility at 14 and half months after returning to fertility with the other children at 10 months. I did not use pacifiers and limited the baby swing to one 15 minute session a day. I tried to find others at the time who had successfully breastfed twins for the duration and I couldn't find even one. There were several moms who after having nursed for (maybe) 3-4 months would drop one twin to a bottle and continued on with the easier baby. My twins were child-led weaned at around 2 and a half years. I did have the help of two older daughters, age 10 and 13 at their birth.I do not say all this to pat myself on the back, but to encourage anyone who finds themselves with twins. It was only through the grace of God and much prayer and offering every bit of the pain/inconvenience and numbness. Please do encourage anyone with twins to fight the battle; it is worth it, just like it is with a single baby.Penny on

Pam, thanks for an excellent response.

Regarding naps and nursing two babies, this email on naps came to this list on Jan. 25, 2011 from Palmer:

"As a doula and an NFP teacher, I have worked with several mothers of twins who have nursed exclusively. The single most important factor in the return of cycles for these moms has been whether or not they could lay down during the day for a nap. Neither pacifier use nor nighttime feedings is as predictive as napping. For those who did nap - even for as little as 30 minutes - the menses was delayed beyond a year. For those who did not, nearly all experienced the return of cycles before 6 months. It's not gold standard research, but it is a remarkable trend I have noticed over the past 10 years."

I did a survey of those mothers who said they did eco-bf and had an early return around 3 months postpartum. I don't have that research in front of me, but I remember that none of those moms who replied did the daily nap (at least 30 minutes of napping or resting). Four of those moms were nursing two and figured the extra nursing would give them a long amenorrhea, but they had an early return. Only 3 of those 4 who were nursing two babies (tandem nursing was involved also) responded to my inquiry but those three did not do the nap.

For naps I used to nurse my baby with my 2 and 4 year old in bed with me. They knew if one of them was awake 30 minutes later I would get up with that person. But usually everyone got in a short nap.

One mother told me when she naps, she lies across the entry/exit to the room. That way if anyone leaves, they have to crawl over her body to leave and wake her up. Another mother of 7 closed off the room and nursed on the floor. Little ones who were not napping played with quiet toys.

When we started our family all my friends (bottlefeeding or breastfeeding) took the phone off the hook and napped with their kids. There were no answering machines in those days. There are plenty of books now advocating the nap (titles mentioned in The Seven Standards) and certainly, as UNICEF says, "breastfeeding can be an opportunity for a mother to take a few minutes of much-needed rest." Unfortunately for some mothers, taking a nap is a time when mom does not relax as she is thinking about all the things she can get done as soon as baby falls asleep and she can get up.

BTW, all recently published books on breastfeeding, the NFP manual, and Battle-Scarred ('s memoirs) are 40% off now at lulu.com during NFP Week and World Breastfeeding Week.

Sheila K. KippleyNFP Internationalwww.NFPandmore.org

The Seven Standards of Ecological Breastfeeding

Breastfeeding and Catholic Motherhood

Re: not adding our own opinions

Dr. Pedulla,I just want to clarify the point that choosing not to ecologically breastfeed does not equate to letting a child cry it out or not meeting his needs. Some mothers may choose to cry it out, and whether I agree with this parenting philosophy or not still doesn't make it a moral choice. There are several points of the 7 Standards that I don't follow, including cosleeping. However, I nurse them on demand and I have never let my babies "cry it out". It's not as black and white as you make it.> As a Catholic who used and taught NFP primarily for religious reasons I've followed the recent discussions with sadness. I think part of these conflicts couples have are our fault. NFP is difficult and requires a good deal of self-control. It means acknowledging that God is God and that we follow His instructions and His example. However, I also feel strongly that we have no right to insist, or even imply, that God requires everyone to ecologically breastfeed or to homeschool. Let's stick to what the Catechism says about God's law and not our personal interpretations.> > peace and prayers,> Gaes> > ------------------------------------> >

[Guest guest]

I can't answer about Clomid Peggy, which is a question better answered by the OB/GYNs, FPs, etc. But as regards failure to regain ovulatory function after cessation of OCPs it is more common, and lasts a bit longer I think, than the literature and medical consensus among OCP dispensing physicians would have us believe (they usually say around 3 months or less for the OCPs, and for Depo "up to" 18 months, but usually downplaying even this sad fact), and would be expected to be worse the older the woman is. So even when normal ovulatory function was established before starting the pill, the relatively powerful anabolic hormones in the pill can disrupt the hypothalamic-pituitary-ovarian axis for unpredictable and varying lengths of time.

But all of this goes ditto if ovarian function and metabolism was abnormal to begin with. PCOS is one of those conditions, and it is entirely possible that ovulatory function may not resume at all following OCP cessation in that case unless a medical intervention aimed at restoring normal ovarian function is given (like metformin or actos or some other drug to lessen ovarian insulin resistance).

I think might have some valuable info to add to this.

Sincerely yours,

Dominic M. Pedulla MD, FACC, CNFPMC, ABVM, ACPh

Interventional Cardiologist, Endovascular Diplomate, Varicose Vein Specialist, Noncontraceptive Family Planning Consultant, Family Planning Researcher

Medical Director, The Oklahoma Vein and Endovascular Center (www.noveinok.com, veininfo@...)

Executive Director, The Edith Stein Foundation (www.theedithsteinfoundation.com)

(office)

(cell)

(FAX)

pedullad@...

"It is an indisputable fact that the Christian faith, from its origins, did not want to be only an idea, that it entered into the world endowed with institutional elements (apostolic function, apostolic succession) and that, therefore, the institutional form of the Church belongs by essence to the faith." (Cardinal ph Ratzinger, December 30, in "La Croix.")

Re: not adding our own opinions and TWO other items

Please forgive a very late newcomer adding a comment here about persevering with Eco-BF; I find my situation fascinating medically. I Eco-BFed my first w/o knowing what was going on. We were in the military, and isolated, so I just did what came naturally, napping included. I later learned about the science behind it with Sheila Kippley's books, and went on to Eco-BFeed 4 young ones. I remain amazed at the BFeeding amenorrhea., never setting any goals for it, just desiring the closeness at the breast.

Babies #6 and #7 sadly had me with low milk supply due to my new low thyroid; their weight losses indicated supplementing and it was not able to be done with my pumped milk. I used formula and a supplementer

(Lact-Aid) at the breast for the entire nursing duration ( somewhat a headache at times ) because I wanted the closeness that I had with the other 4 at the breast. There was something missing for me using a bottle, so I persevered to have this closeness, even using the supplementer @ naps. With the oldest @ 28 years now, and the youngest at 10, I am every bit as close to each of them with the breastfeeding memories. I know this seems extreme, even to me at times, but I have no regrets.

My fascination is how I also went w/o cycles for at least 12 months for both, using the supplementer, but was not doing this to get any child spacing. I only would realize it when the cycles returned because that was not any goal. Baby #5 bit me a lot and I used a bottle a lot starting at six months. I only had 6-7 months of amenorrhea for this situation; cycles returned quickly with those

first bottles. Sadly, the nursing memories here are absent and I do grieve for them still!

Thanks to all for this exchange and this NFP yahoogroup concept! Ann,RN / NFPIntnl.