Re: Normal CT

[Guest guest]

No most with PA have normal scans at first. Review my evolution article and take to your team. Scans are + MORE in advanced PA. WHAT stage are u in. May your pressure be low!CE Grim MS, MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertension

I got the report this afternoon that the abdominal CT I had done yesterday was 'normal'. Does that absolutely rule out me having PA?

Donna

[Guest guest]

No Just means tumor wasn't big enough to to be seen on CT scan or as many on

here can tell you who ever read the scan missed it. Maybe the it is on the scan

report and your dr didn't read all the notes.

>

> I got the report this afternoon that the abdominal CT I had done yesterday was

'normal'. Does that absolutely rule out me having PA?

>

> Donna

>

[Guest guest]

The stage I most closely identify with is 4 as I have been having muscle cramps

for at least 3 months with fingers, toes, legs actually seizing. Then this week

I experienced for the first time shaking uncontrollably while walking in my

backyard. I grabbed hold of the walls of my greenhouse in effort to stop the

shaking, but to no avail. It was only after coming in the house and taking 800

mg of K and 600 mg of Mg that it began to subside.

I have been on around 8 g K and 3-4 g Mg daily for a couple months now and have

been consuming virtually no salt for a month. (Yesterday, about 5 minutes after

the tech pushed some saline solution through my IV I began having involuntarily

muscle quaking. It wasn't until I was able to topically apply some K and wait

several minutes that it stopped.)

The K and Mg are the only things that allow me to move about my house and make

the very occasional excursions away from home. It also:

- quells the palpitations and the shortness of breath.

- keeps me from becoming impacted

- stops the pain in my flanks and face, the cramping and pain in my other

muscles and the headaches

All of this had been coming on for at least 4 years, but the last 2 months it

seems to be on warp drive.

Donna

--- Clarence Grim wrote:

No most with PA have normal scans at first. Review my evolution article and

take to your team. Scans are + MORE in advanced PA. WHAT stage are u in.

[Guest guest]

My endo's head nurse (an advocate of mine since '91) called and read me the

radiologist's report verbatim. It said my adrenals were clear.

--- " Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA " wrote:

No Just means tumor wasn't big enough to to be seen on CT scan or as many on

here can tell you who ever read the scan missed it. Maybe the it is on the scan

report and your dr didn't read all the notes.

[Guest guest]

I have had 2 CT's and they have been normal too. One was looking at the adrenals, one was just of the belly. It happens.No Just means tumor wasn't big enough to to be seen on CT scan or as many on here can tell you who ever read the scan missed it. Maybe the it is on the scan report and your dr didn't read all the notes.

[Guest guest]

When you get short of breath try breathing into a small paper bag or a small zip

lock bag. What you think is shortness of breath may be hyperventilation.

>

> No most with PA have normal scans at first. Review my evolution article and

take to your team. Scans are + MORE in advanced PA. WHAT stage are u in.

>

[Guest guest]

No, it's shortness of breath.

--- " Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA " wrote:

When you get short of breath try breathing into a small paper bag or a small

zip lock bag. What you think is shortness of breath may be hyperventilation.

[Guest guest]

Maybe I missed it but I haven' see where you have posted any of your labs or

what you are taking for meds.

>

> No most with PA have normal scans at first. Review my evolution article and

take to your team. Scans are + MORE in advanced PA. WHAT stage are u in.

>

[Guest guest]

I though I was having shortness of breath until I tried breathing into a bag

found this to shorten recovery from sometimes 1/2 hour to less then a minute.

>

> When you get short of breath try breathing into a small paper bag or a small

zip lock bag. What you think is shortness of breath may be hyperventilation.

>

[Guest guest]

I diagnosed my Hashimoto's, my thyroid cancer, my parathyroid adenoma and

numerous deep lypomas. I use to be a weight lifter and long distance bicyclist

(120 miles a week) before the cancer. Then there's the dual college major that

included animal science with nutritional classes, study of various types of

gastric systems, SID handbook, etc., all senior level classes. Plus, I did all

my own vet work on the farm. I delivered a breach birth by myself (ewe & lamb

both did well), assisted on a c-section, learned how to do necropsies and was

quite good at finding the answer. Merck Manual was my bedtime reading for years.

And if that isn't enough I had planned to go to UTHSC to become a PA, but the

cancer had other ideas.

Trust me, mine is shortness of breath.

Donna

--- " Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA " wrote:

I though I was having shortness of breath until I tried breathing into a bag

found this to shorten recovery from sometimes 1/2 hour to less then a minute.

[Guest guest]

Can not hurt to try the bag trick. As I said I thought I was getting short of

breath. I have been to ED a few times because of it. Had 3 stress tests done got

heart have to target rate but have to stop because of shortness of breath. It

was Dr Grim who said I should try the bag trick. For me it works. I would guess

that many with PA that think they have shortness of breath really have

hyperventilation.

>

> I though I was having shortness of breath until I tried breathing into a bag

found this to shorten recovery from sometimes 1/2 hour to less then a minute.

>

[Guest guest]

This isn't the Merck Manual but may give you something to think about.

http://fitsweb.uchc.edu/student/selectives/TimurGraham/GI_Hydrogen_Loss_and_Redu\

ction_in_ECV.html

>

> I though I was having shortness of breath until I tried breathing into a bag

found this to shorten recovery from sometimes 1/2 hour to less then a minute.

>

[Guest guest]

You do know you still need about 1500mg of sodium a day? You're obviously getting some, but are you up around 1500? NO sodium is not good for you and could be a killer. ANY extreme is typically just as bad as the other extreme (though I wouldn't mind trying out the OTHER extreme when it came to money!)

Topical K?

No most with PA have normal scans at first. Review my evolution article and take to your team. Scans are + MORE in advanced PA. WHAT stage are u in.

[Guest guest]

Being poor and on welfare isn't what it is cracked up to be, !

>

> No most with PA have normal scans at first. Review my evolution article and

take to your team. Scans are + MORE in advanced PA. WHAT stage are u in.

>

[Guest guest]

Do we have your complete story? Wihtout it we are whistling in the dark. 8 gm of K is a lot are you certain of the units. That would be 8000 mg of K and could be dangerous. The stage I most closely identify with is 4 as I have been having muscle cramps for at least 3 months with fingers, toes, legs actually seizing. Then this week I experienced for the first time shaking uncontrollably while walking in my backyard. I grabbed hold of the walls of my greenhouse in effort to stop the shaking, but to no avail. It was only after coming in the house and taking 800 mg of K and 600 mg of Mg that it began to subside. I have been on around 8 g K and 3-4 g Mg daily for a couple months now and have been consuming virtually no salt for a month. (Yesterday, about 5 minutes after the tech pushed some saline solution through my IV I began having involuntarily muscle quaking. It wasn't until I was able to topically apply some K and wait several minutes that it stopped.) The K and Mg are the only things that allow me to move about my house and make the very occasional excursions away from home. It also: - quells the palpitations and the shortness of breath. - keeps me from becoming impacted - stops the pain in my flanks and face, the cramping and pain in my other muscles and the headaches All of this had been coming on for at least 4 years, but the last 2 months it seems to be on warp drive. Donna --- Clarence Grim wrote: No most with PA have normal scans at first. Review my evolution article and take to your team. Scans are + MORE in advanced PA. WHAT stage are u in.

[Guest guest]

Better to say no visible bumps. As they can me as small as 1 mm diameter and no device will pick them up that small. Recommend a second reading as I have seen bumps that have been missed on first reading. CE Grim MD My endo's head nurse (an advocate of mine since '91) called and read me the radiologist's report verbatim. It said my adrenals were clear. --- "Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA" wrote: No Just means tumor wasn't big enough to to be seen on CT scan or as many on here can tell you who ever read the scan missed it. Maybe the it is on the scan report and your dr didn't read all the notes.

[Guest guest]

Nay it is normal in early PA.CE Grim MD I have had 2 CT's and they have been normal too. One was looking at the adrenals, one was just of the belly. It happens.No Just means tumor wasn't big enough to to be seen on CT scan or as many on here can tell you who ever read the scan missed it. Maybe the it is on the scan report and your dr didn't read all the notes.

[Guest guest]

Never never assume. I've been out of work and we've on welfare for over a year because of this illness - teaching has put some gas money in the car and paid car insurance, but that's about it.

I told you my story is a deep one and the medical board, when I told them I wasn't renewing my license at that time because I was wanting to get some help for feeling so sick and using the $500 to pay for some labs at that time (I had no insurance - made a good salary - but $1000 a month went to student loans) back then, decided to NEVER let me renew it until I paid tens of thousands of dollars in "professional assessments". saying I wasn't too sick to work I had the undiagnosed PA, with severe low K (I have low of 1.9 in the ER), combined with hyperthyroidism and I was VERY sick - to the point of hallucinations and week long insomnia among the million other things going on ( I could not even walk up 5 steps without being competely winded). The sense of doom was beyond imaginable during this period too. I easily had 170/130 or higher every day. Not sometimes, but everyday. I never slept, but the way my

heart pounded through my chest I thought I was dropping dead any second. So I had said I HAD to find out or I was dying.

Little did I know the hell to come.

Of course, I KNEW I was sick organically, and not mentally, but I couldn't tell anyone about the hallucinations because that label would be even harder to overcome and I had already fought the "he's just stressed out" "he's depressed" road with the providers before and wasn't about to do it again. My HUGE mistake, and I have been lectured about this from lawyers and docs alike, was I told the board casually that I had to have sleeping pills to get ANY sleep and how I hated that and that was it. It exploded in their mind and now ALL burden of proof was on me to prove I wasn't too sick, or didn't have an addiction problem.

But I had no money and they do not except any assessments but their own designated. One of their docs, who is the board assessment doc, charges $1000 a VISIT! He makes you bring extra money for labs if he so desires to do them. And he takes no cash, no insurance, and always insists on a follow up. This is what I have been up against.

I am 100% dead serious about that. So you might see why I am not overflowing with sympathy for a truck driver who has to get his or her 150/94 down to 139/89 and only gets a yearly certificate when all they have to do is exercise a bit and NOT stop and eat at the truck stop - now if they have PA that's a different story, but still fixable....

Remember I have written how I feel we all tend to live in the world around us as if OUR problem is worse than the next guy or gal and I don't think that way? We act like my PA is worse than yours, I can't eat DASH way because I have this or that, I can't exercise because this or that, no one knows what I've been through, etc......well we all have a back story and there are exceptions to every rule. I went from 6 figures to NOTHING the very next day at the start of this nightmare. And I have 6 figure student loans and 7 children who I supported fine until I got sick. I have sold everything we own of value. I keep my prized Fender electric and my Fender acoustic. That's it.

I ask for advice, and read most everything on the list, and want to hear from friends as to what they do and have done to get better, or find the problem, and so on, on the list, but I don't imply my problem is worse than the next. We all are one in our way , but somehow still that island to ourselves also.

I am not one, no matter what, who's gonna sit on his ass though, so I found something to do which is teach (I am back at the clinic but not at full capacity). And I am a positive thinker who will exercise to whatever capacity I can, I will eat better and if there's something I can't eat (like nuts - high K - but my teeth issues don't let me) I will work around it. That's me, and I think others have that capacity, but refuse to use it. So I am a bit sarcastic and hard on those who make excuse after excuse, but only because I believe we can do more than we act like most of the time. Yes, I know it's hard.....but I like reasons not excuses.

Most of all I am not giving up. Like many I tried to find out what was wrong, but was misdiagnosed or not diagnosed for years and years. After it led to all this I am angry beyond belief at some of those who brushed me aside and if I was with a few of them face to face - especially those who acted like it was stress - I am not sure I could keep myself back (I wouldn't kill someone, but sure let them know how mad I was). Thus I go to therapy just because I do not want to stay that way. So I am fighting this too.

As to welfare..... I had a hard working dad who tried his best growing up but we were always on welfare. I know it better than most. I am not a high school graduate, neither were either of my parents (they were 17 when I was born), and yet I had no silver spoon, no help with schooling, no nothing. I busted my ass and I always see a light ahead, not let my past, my illnesses, my upbringing, anything, hold me back. I know rock bottom.

The only exception is I have paid alot in taxes when I am working, and now back to work I will pay alot more for the rest of my life - though likely never reap the benefits of it again (contrary to what is trying to be preached today the more you make the more taxes you pay literally and %, and the less you get back on a return.) Many many many who do not, nor never work nor pay taxes will reap the benefit of my paying taxes though in the past and in the future (some, who pay NO taxes, actually get some back on a return - how the hell is that okay?).

But I am sure I will never get a thank you from them.

Sorry bro, I know most of us mean well, and writing on this list often doesn't always convey our humor, or empathy and sympathy well, but we are all fighting our different demons on our own turf. One thing my young 44 years has taught me is that my problem is just that - mine. Someone else may be fighting their own just as hard, whether I see it or not.

I have mine too.........

Subject: Re: Normal CTTo: hyperaldosteronism Date: Saturday, December 3, 2011, 11:55 AM

Being poor and on welfare isn't what it is cracked up to be, !> > No most with PA have normal scans at first. Review my evolution article and take to your team. Scans are + MORE in advanced PA. WHAT stage are u

in.>

[Guest guest]

But have you tried rebreating into a bag. What Ca chemo did you get?Did you take any muscle building supplements?CE Grim MD I diagnosed my Hashimoto's, my thyroid cancer, my parathyroid adenoma and numerous deep lypomas. I use to be a weight lifter and long distance bicyclist (120 miles a week) before the cancer. Then there's the dual college major that included animal science with nutritional classes, study of various types of gastric systems, SID handbook, etc., all senior level classes. Plus, I did all my own vet work on the farm. I delivered a breach birth by myself (ewe & lamb both did well), assisted on a c-section, learned how to do necropsies and was quite good at finding the answer. Merck Manual was my bedtime reading for years. And if that isn't enough I had planned to go to UTHSC to become a PA, but the cancer had other ideas. Trust me, mine is shortness of breath. Donna --- "Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA" wrote: I though I was having shortness of breath until I tried breathing into a bag found this to shorten recovery from sometimes 1/2 hour to less then a minute.

[Guest guest]

And hypervent causes alkalosis which can worsen low K symptoms as it lowers K as K moves into cells in exchange for H that is moving out to buffer loss of HCO2 thru hypervent. Even 30-60 sec of forced hypervent can shift K. CE Grim MDOn Dec 3, 2011, at 10:21 AM, Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA wrote: Can not hurt to try the bag trick. As I said I thought I was getting short of breath. I have been to ED a few times because of it. Had 3 stress tests done got heart have to target rate but have to stop because of shortness of breath. It was Dr Grim who said I should try the bag trick. For me it works. I would guess that many with PA that think they have shortness of breath really have hyperventilation. > > I though I was having shortness of breath until I tried breathing into a bag found this to shorten recovery from sometimes 1/2 hour to less then a minute. >

[Guest guest]

I was already aware that metabolic acidosis is a result of hyperaldosteronism

(and Cushing's disease, lung disease, severe vomiting...), thus it is important

to be tested for CO2, as well as Cl when these disorders are suspected.

I'm not following why you would point out this article to me as it appears to

lend credibility to me saying that I have shortness of breath (i.e. high serum

CO2 ) rather than your belief that I actually suffer from from hyperventilation

(i.e low serum CO2)....

Donna

--- georgewbill@... on Sat Dec 3, 2011 8:41 am (PST)wrote:

This isn't the Merck Manual but may give you something to think about.

http://fitsweb. uchc.edu/ student/selectiv es/TimurGraham/ GI_Hydrogen_

Loss_and_ Reduction_ in_ECV.html

--- " dstartz " <d_m_g_s@... > wrote:

Trust me, mine is shortness of breath.

Donna

--- " Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA " <georgewbill@ > wrote:

I though I was having shortness of breath until I tried breathing into a bag

found this to shorten recovery from sometimes 1/2 hour to less then a minute.

[Guest guest]

Who has what backwards?

Donna

--- Clarence Grim wrote:

They do not have it all right. Aldo acts primarily on Na permeability and H and

K follow that. So they have it backwards.

CE Grim MD

[Guest guest]

, I thought I owed you for a therapy session but obviously we are even!

From your account I'm not sure my assumption was incorrect! I've never hit the

6digit number but high 5's. Took the bus driving job to make sure my last child

(#3) could graduate h.S. and get her masters in O.T. All 3 have a college

education (2 masters and 1 associte who makes the most $$$,$$$ BTW) and are able

to pay their own loans, nothing started over $50K so I'm satisfied. I am glad I

don't have 4 more to look at!

Please rest assured that I do not pass judgement on welfare or handicap placards

either for that matter! If I did it certainly looks sounds like you were using

the system correctly! That is what we pay FICA, etc. for and at the salary your

previously mentioned I'm sure you maxed out more than once! I'm from a family of

6 children and my wife from 8 (she's one of twins born 1 day before her mom's

40th bday and she has a younger brother) so I have an idea what it takes to

raise a large family. I don't envey you and your wife but you can adopt me as a

GrandPa, I'm available if you want to move closer! BTW, I recommend keeping the

Fernders. Charge them as " Medical Devices " (exersize and therapy)!

To your conditions: Are you still on low dose Spiro and experiencing

Gynecomastia? If so, have you looked into the effects on your hormonal system.

As I was researching my breast bumps I found quite a bit on how the lowering

effect of testosterone allowed for more circulating estrogen which caused

problems for some of us. You have access to better info and a better

understanding than I but I found the best info when I googled " Male Breast

Cancer " and " Transgender M2F " . You are not premenopausal are you? JK!

Dr. Grim is right, you have a story that needs to be published.

- 65 yo super ob. male - 12mm X 13mm rt. a.adnoma with previous rt. flank

pain. Treating with Meds. And DASH. . Current BP(last week ave): 131/76 HR 60

Other Issues/Opportunities: OSA w Bi-Pap settings 13/19, DM2, and PTSD.

Meds: Duloxetine hcl 80 MG, Metoprolol Tartrate 200 MG, 81mg asprin, Metformin

2000MG and Spironolactone 50 MG.

> >

> > No most with PA have normal scans at first. Review my evolution article and

take to your team. Scans are + MORE in advanced PA. WHAT stage are u in.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

High serum HCO2 tells you not much and there are many causes. PA is one. Suspect you mean high bicarb not C02 but maybe not. SOB would not be on my list of a common cause of high serum CO2. high pCO2 will dirve your breathing faster and deeper. You really need an arterial CO2 and p02 to tell what is going on and some PFTs. SOB is a sensation that only the pt can state. Exactly what do you mean when you say your are SOB? When, how long, what brings it on, what makes it better etc? I was already aware that metabolic acidosis is a result of hyperaldosteronism (and Cushing's disease, lung disease, severe vomiting...), thus it is important to be tested for CO2, as well as Cl when these disorders are suspected. I'm not following why you would point out this article to me as it appears to lend credibility to me saying that I have shortness of breath (i.e. high serum CO2 ) rather than your belief that I actually suffer from from hyperventilation (i.e low serum CO2).... Donna --- georgewbill@... on Sat Dec 3, 2011 8:41 am (PST)wrote: This isn't the Merck Manual but may give you something to think about. http://fitsweb. uchc.edu/ student/selectiv es/TimurGraham/ GI_Hydrogen_ Loss_and_ Reduction_ in_ECV.html --- "dstartz" <d_m_g_s@... > wrote: Trust me, mine is shortness of breath. Donna --- "Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA" <georgewbill@ > wrote: I though I was having shortness of breath until I tried breathing into a bag found this to shorten recovery from sometimes 1/2 hour to less then a minute.

[Guest guest]

the site that I linked to based on the email I responded to which has been deleted from your note so cant see it. But OK. Go back a few emails about what aldo does and there was a link to a site that splained in a spot on acid base balance but did not have it right.CE Grim MD Who has what backwards? Donna --- Clarence Grim wrote: They do not have it all right. Aldo acts primarily on Na permeability and H and K follow that. So they have it backwards. CE Grim MD