Re: estrogen and breast cancer

[Guest guest]

fat cells don't produce estrogen the same way ovaries do.. but they do create it from circulating hormones that are pre-cursors to estrogen

 

An AP article the Cincinnati Enquirer for Dec 8 reported a study funded by the G. Komen for the Cure foundation.  It was reviewed by Dr. Thun, senior epidemiologist for the American Cancer Society.  As reported in the Enquirer, " Weight and obesity matter because fat cells make estrogen, a hormone that fuels the growth of most breast cancers, he said. "   That's news to me.  I have been led ( by Lee and others) to believe that the ovaries make all three forms of estrogen and that fat cells can store estrogen.  I will appreciate correction or comment, please.

 

Another AP article on the same page reported as follows:

    " A Philadelphia jury has awarded three women $72.6 million in compensatory damages over their use of a hormone replacement drug, and more could be coming when punitive damages are determined.

    " ...[the jury] ordered ...Pfizer to pay out the damages over the plaintiffs' claims that Prempro gave them breast cancer...

    " ...Wyeth Pharmaceuticals was hit with dozens of lawsuits after a study found Prempro users had a much higher incidence of breast cancer... Pfizer bought Wyeth in 2009. "

 

Something to think about.  What will be the trials and judgments when women start engaging in small group and then class action suits against the Pill manufacturers when the evidence shown by Dr. Kahlenborn finally gets acknowledged?  And what will happen when the lawyers start salivating on the kind of class action suits that can be filed in response to the results of the HHS mandate that every doctor and hospital gas to give out the Pill for free?

 

A Blessed Immaculate Conception Day to all of you. 

 

Kippley

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Fat cells do produce estrogen, primarily estrone, and certainly not in the same way ovaries do. Here I want to insert some comments:There is a proclivity to blame estrogens for much illness (interestingly in women mostly without attention to men), and without designating what particular estrogen, its source, and how it is acting in concert or not in concert with other sex steroids and hormones. So when I read articles about estrogen I want to know what estrogen -- human or pharmaceutical (synthetic, artificial, bio-identically synthetic) -- for example is the estrogen in question estradiol, estriol, estrone, estrin, ethinyl estradiol, etc. Then I want to know what other hormones are involved in the processes which the research is examining. Just these two questions of course lead to very complex responses and so it is then not so easy to say this equals that. 

As for Lees' work, and those of his ilk, it is my assumption that there looking at hormones, sex steroid and others, in concert is the way to really work with issues of sexual and reproductive health. If one looks at the references for Lee's work, and the work of Theirry Hertoghe (The Hormone Handbook) one will get a better picture of what to ask and what to look for when reading studies on sex hormones.

Also, the liver plays a key roll in the metabolism, synthesis, an biotransformation of any form of estrogen and so the ability of the liver to do that job is key to whether or not estrogen becomes a " dangerous " hormone -- once again I refer you to the work of Hertoghe and his ilk.

Hope this is helpful.Geraldine Matuswww.justisse.ca

 

fat cells don't produce estrogen the same way ovaries do.. but they do create it from circulating hormones that are pre-cursors to estrogen

 

An AP article the Cincinnati Enquirer for Dec 8 reported a study funded by the G. Komen for the Cure foundation.  It was reviewed by Dr. Thun, senior epidemiologist for the American Cancer Society.  As reported in the Enquirer, " Weight and obesity matter because fat cells make estrogen, a hormone that fuels the growth of most breast cancers, he said. "   That's news to me.  I have been led ( by Lee and others) to believe that the ovaries make all three forms of estrogen and that fat cells can store estrogen.  I will appreciate correction or comment, please.

 

Another AP article on the same page reported as follows:

    " A Philadelphia jury has awarded three women $72.6 million in compensatory damages over their use of a hormone replacement drug, and more could be coming when punitive damages are determined.

    " ...[the jury] ordered ...Pfizer to pay out the damages over the plaintiffs' claims that Prempro gave them breast cancer...

    " ...Wyeth Pharmaceuticals was hit with dozens of lawsuits after a study found Prempro users had a much higher incidence of breast cancer... Pfizer bought Wyeth in 2009. "

 

Something to think about.  What will be the trials and judgments when women start engaging in small group and then class action suits against the Pill manufacturers when the evidence shown by Dr. Kahlenborn finally gets acknowledged?  And what will happen when the lawyers start salivating on the kind of class action suits that can be filed in response to the results of the HHS mandate that every doctor and hospital gas to give out the Pill for free?

 

A Blessed Immaculate Conception Day to all of you. 

 

Kippley

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

There is gross oversimplification in blaming estrogen for everything. Most organs in the human body have estrogen receptors and estrogen is a necessary hormone for both men and women to some degree. The bigger culprits are synthetic estrogens, and especially oral forms of estrogen which are transformed in the liver into carcinogenic and thrombogenic byproducts. Transdermal estradiol therapies avoid this. Furthermore, remember even Premarin (oral horse estrogen without the Provera) in the huge WHI study did NOT cause excessive breast cancer or loss of life.

An AP article the Cincinnati Enquirer for Dec 8 reported a study funded by the G. Komen for the Cure foundation. It was reviewed by Dr. Thun, senior epidemiologist for the American Cancer Society. As reported in the Enquirer, "Weight and obesity matter because fat cells make estrogen, a hormone that fuels the growth of most breast cancers, he said." That's news to me. I have been led ( by Lee and others) to believe that the ovaries make all three forms of estrogen and that fat cells can store estrogen. I will appreciate correction or comment, please.

Another AP article on the same page reported as follows:

"A Philadelphia jury has awarded three women $72.6 million in compensatory damages over their use of a hormone replacement drug, and more could be coming when punitive damages are determined.

"...[the jury] ordered ...Pfizer to pay out the damages over the plaintiffs' claims that Prempro gave them breast cancer...

"...Wyeth Pharmaceuticals was hit with dozens of lawsuits after a study found Prempro users had a much higher incidence of breast cancer... Pfizer bought Wyeth in 2009."

Something to think about. What will be the trials and judgments when women start engaging in small group and then class action suits against the Pill manufacturers when the evidence shown by Dr. Kahlenborn finally gets acknowledged? And what will happen when the lawyers start salivating on the kind of class action suits that can be filed in response to the results of the HHS mandate that every doctor and hospital gas to give out the Pill for free?

A Blessed Immaculate Conception Day to all of you.

Kippley

[Guest guest]

Just curious: if the transdermal Estrogen products avoid the carcinogenic and thrombogenic byproducts, why is Ortho Evra patch found to cause even more clots than many of the pills?  Appreciate all the details provided so far. Thanks, , MDSVFPRFront Royal, VA From: nfpprofessionals [mailto:nfpprofessionals ] On Behalf Of DavenportSent: Friday, December 09, 2011 2:11 PMTo: nfpprofessionals Subject: Re: estrogen and breast cancer There is gross oversimplification in blaming estrogen for everything. Most organs in the human body have estrogen receptors and estrogen is a necessary hormone for both men and women to some degree. The bigger culprits are synthetic estrogens, and especially oral forms of estrogen which are transformed in the liver into carcinogenic and thrombogenic byproducts. Transdermal estradiol therapies avoid this. Furthermore, remember even Premarin (oral horse estrogen without the Provera) in the huge WHI study did NOT cause excessive breast cancer or loss of life. An AP article the Cincinnati Enquirer for Dec 8 reported a study funded by the G. Komen for the Cure foundation. It was reviewed by Dr. Thun, senior epidemiologist for the American Cancer Society. As reported in the Enquirer, " Weight and obesity matter because fat cells make estrogen, a hormone that fuels the growth of most breast cancers, he said. " That's news to me. I have been led ( by Lee and others) to believe that the ovaries make all three forms of estrogen and that fat cells can store estrogen. I will appreciate correction or comment, please. Another AP article on the same page reported as follows: " A Philadelphia jury has awarded three women $72.6 million in compensatory damages over their use of a hormone replacement drug, and more could be coming when punitive damages are determined. " ...[the jury] ordered ...Pfizer to pay out the damages over the plaintiffs' claims that Prempro gave them breast cancer... " ...Wyeth Pharmaceuticals was hit with dozens of lawsuits after a study found Prempro users had a much higher incidence of breast cancer... Pfizer bought Wyeth in 2009. " Something to think about. What will be the trials and judgments when women start engaging in small group and then class action suits against the Pill manufacturers when the evidence shown by Dr. Kahlenborn finally gets acknowledged? And what will happen when the lawyers start salivating on the kind of class action suits that can be filed in response to the results of the HHS mandate that every doctor and hospital gas to give out the Pill for free? A Blessed Immaculate Conception Day to all of you. Kippley

[Guest guest]

Ortho Evra containes a synthetic estrogen(ethinyl estradiol) and not bioidentical human estradiol. It is not at physiologic levels like estradiol replacement patches. It has to have ten times the estrogenic effect and binding to receptors to stop ovulation. In addition it contains another synthetic progestin (norgestimate). In many instances the progestins are more carcinogenic and thrombogenic than the synthetic estrogens. An AP article the Cincinnati Enquirer for Dec 8 reported a study funded by the G. Komen for the Cure foundation. It was reviewed by Dr. Thun, senior epidemiologist for the American Cancer Society. As reported in the Enquirer, "Weight and obesity matter because fat cells make estrogen, a hormone that fuels the growth of most breast cancers, he said." That's news to me. I have been led ( by Lee and others) to believe that the ovaries make all three forms of estrogen and that fat cells can store estrogen. I will appreciate correction or comment, please. Another AP article on the same page reported as follows: "A Philadelphia jury has awarded three women $72.6 million in compensatory damages over their use of a hormone replacement drug, and more could be coming when punitive damages are determined. "...[the jury] ordered ...Pfizer to pay out the damages over the plaintiffs' claims that Prempro gave them breast cancer... "...Wyeth Pharmaceuticals was hit with dozens of lawsuits after a study found Prempro users had a much higher

incidence of breast cancer... Pfizer bought Wyeth in 2009." Something to think about. What will be the trials and judgments when women start engaging in small group and then class action suits against the Pill manufacturers when the evidence shown by Dr. Kahlenborn finally gets acknowledged? And what will happen when the lawyers start salivating on the kind of class action suits that can be filed in response to the results of the HHS mandate that every doctor and hospital gas to give out the Pill for free? A Blessed Immaculate Conception Day to all of

you. Kippley

[Guest guest]

First of all the products to which you refer are not " estrogen " strictly speaking as the estrogens are a group of endogenous human hormones. The synthesized hormones used for HRT and hormonal contraception are not estrogens. This is an important distinction when one is trying to sort out the effects on the body of pharmaceutical hormonal drugs.

Transdermally applied hormones bypass the liver, and thus more of the product is made available. Orally taken hormones must make a pass at the liver first before utilization so less of the product is made available. The bio-availability of hormonal products is dependent on the transdermal absorption rate of the individual and for oral products the individual response by the liver and gut to these products.

Geraldine MatusDirector and Academic DeanJustisse-Healthworks for Womenwww.justisse.ca info@...

10145 - 81 AvenueEdmonton, AB. T6E 1W91-   1-1- (Fx)Behind every wise woman are many other wise women.

 

Ortho Evra containes a synthetic estrogen(ethinyl estradiol)  and not bioidentical human estradiol. It is not at physiologic levels like estradiol replacement patches. It has to have ten times the estrogenic effect and binding to receptors to stop ovulation. In addition it contains another synthetic progestin (norgestimate). In many instances the progestins are more carcinogenic and thrombogenic than the synthetic estrogens.

  An AP article the Cincinnati Enquirer for Dec 8 reported a study funded by the G. Komen for the Cure foundation.  It was reviewed by Dr. Thun, senior epidemiologist for the American Cancer Society.  As reported in the Enquirer, " Weight and obesity matter because fat cells make estrogen, a hormone that fuels the growth of most breast cancers, he said. "   That's news to me.  I have been led ( by Lee and others) to believe that the ovaries make all three forms of estrogen and that fat cells can store estrogen.  I will appreciate correction or comment, please.

 Another AP article on the same page reported as follows:    " A Philadelphia jury has awarded three women $72.6 million in compensatory damages over their use of a hormone replacement drug, and more could be coming when punitive damages are determined.

    " ...[the jury] ordered ...Pfizer to pay out the damages over the plaintiffs' claims that Prempro gave them breast cancer...

    " ...Wyeth Pharmaceuticals was hit with dozens of lawsuits after a study found Prempro users had a much higher

incidence of breast cancer... Pfizer bought Wyeth in 2009. "  Something to think about.  What will be the trials and judgments when women start engaging in small group and then class action suits against the Pill manufacturers when the evidence shown by Dr. Kahlenborn finally gets acknowledged?  And what will happen when the lawyers start salivating on the kind of class action suits that can be filed in response to the results of the HHS mandate that every doctor and hospital gas to give out the Pill for free?

 A Blessed Immaculate Conception Day to all of

you.    Kippley 

     

[Guest guest]

There is no literature to the best of my knowledge That transdermal estradiol " bypasses" carcinogenicEffects- it is medically safer but not non- carcinogenicEstradiol is estradiol; it stimulates breast tissueRegardless of how it gets into bodySent from my iPhone

First of all the products to which you refer are not "estrogen" strictly speaking as the estrogens are a group of endogenous human hormones. The synthesized hormones used for HRT and hormonal contraception are not estrogens. This is an important distinction when one is trying to sort out the effects on the body of pharmaceutical hormonal drugs.

Transdermally applied hormones bypass the liver, and thus more of the product is made available. Orally taken hormones must make a pass at the liver first before utilization so less of the product is made available. The bio-availability of hormonal products is dependent on the transdermal absorption rate of the individual and for oral products the individual response by the liver and gut to these products.

Geraldine MatusDirector and Academic DeanJustisse-Healthworks for Womenwww.justisse.ca info@...

10145 - 81 AvenueEdmonton, AB. T6E 1W91- 1-1- (Fx)Behind every wise woman are many other wise women.

Ortho Evra containes a synthetic estrogen(ethinyl estradiol) and not bioidentical human estradiol. It is not at physiologic levels like estradiol replacement patches. It has to have ten times the estrogenic effect and binding to receptors to stop ovulation. In addition it contains another synthetic progestin (norgestimate). In many instances the progestins are more carcinogenic and thrombogenic than the synthetic estrogens.

An AP article the Cincinnati Enquirer for Dec 8 reported a study funded by the G. Komen for the Cure foundation. It was reviewed by Dr. Thun, senior epidemiologist for the American Cancer Society. As reported in the Enquirer, "Weight and obesity matter because fat cells make estrogen, a hormone that fuels the growth of most breast cancers, he said." That's news to me. I have been led ( by Lee and others) to believe that the ovaries make all three forms of estrogen and that fat cells can store estrogen. I will appreciate correction or comment, please.

Another AP article on the same page reported as follows: "A Philadelphia jury has awarded three women $72.6 million in compensatory damages over their use of a hormone replacement drug, and more could be coming when punitive damages are determined.

"...[the jury] ordered ...Pfizer to pay out the damages over the plaintiffs' claims that Prempro gave them breast cancer...

"...Wyeth Pharmaceuticals was hit with dozens of lawsuits after a study found Prempro users had a much higher

incidence of breast cancer... Pfizer bought Wyeth in 2009." Something to think about. What will be the trials and judgments when women start engaging in small group and then class action suits against the Pill manufacturers when the evidence shown by Dr. Kahlenborn finally gets acknowledged? And what will happen when the lawyers start salivating on the kind of class action suits that can be filed in response to the results of the HHS mandate that every doctor and hospital gas to give out the Pill for free?

A Blessed Immaculate Conception Day to all of

you. Kippley

[Guest guest]

Thank you Dr. Ruppersberger. Yes, it certainly does. Getting back to Dr. Kippley's original question on endogenous estrogen production:Although we commonly think of the ovaries as the main source of estrogen, the enzyme aromatase which produce it can be found in all parts of the body. Fat and the skin are major sources of estrogen, especially in older people. The activity of aromatase increases with age and under the influence of prolactin, cortisol, prostaglandin, and the pituitary hormones, FSH and growth hormone. It can be inhibited by progesterone, thyroid, aspirin, and high altitude. Aromatase can produce estrogen in fat cells, fibroblasts, smooth muscle cells, breast and uterine tissue, pancreas, liver, brain, bone, skin, etc. Its action in breast cancer, endometriosis, uterine cancer, lupus, gynecomastia, and many other diseases is especially important. Aromatase in mammary tissue appears to increase estrogen receptors and cause breast neoplasia, independently of ovarian estrogen (Tekmal, et al., 1999).Also Beta-glucoronidase converts the inactive estrogen-glucuronides into active estrogen. When it passes thru inflamed tissues which are high in beta-glucoronidase it will leave the estrogen to accumulate in the tissue. Also, one must look at the role of steroid sulfatase, as it appears to be partly responsible for overproduction of endogenous estrogen and provides a growth advantage for breast tumor cells (Utsumi et al., 2000).An interesting publication:Endocr Relat Cancer 1999 Jun;6(2):307-14. Aromatase overexpression and breast hyperplasia, an in vivo model--continued overexpression of aromatase is sufficient to maintain hyperplasia without circulating estrogens, and aromatase inhibitors abrogate these preneoplastic changes in mammary glands. Tekmal RR, Kirma N, Gill K, Fowler K “To test directly the role of breast-tissue estrogen in initiation of breast cancer, we have developed the aromatase-transgenic mouse model and demonstrated for the first time that increased mammary estrogens resulting from the overexpression of aromatase in mammary glands lead to the induction of various preneoplastic and neoplastic changes that are similar to early breast cancer.” “Our current studies show aromatase overexpression is sufficient to induce and maintain early preneoplastic and neoplastic changes in female mice without circulating ovarian estrogen. Preneoplastic and neoplastic changes induced in mammary glands as a result of aromatase overexpression can be completely abrogated with the administration of the aromatase inhibitor, letrozole. Consistent with complete reduction in hyperplasia, we have also seen downregulation of estrogen receptor and a decrease in cell proliferationmarkers, suggesting aromatase-induced hyperplasia can be treated with aromatase inhibitors. Our studies demonstrate that aromatase overexpression alone, without circulating estrogen, is responsible for the induction of breast hyperplasia and these changes can be abrogated using aromatase inhibitors.” Some of the endogenous thyroid and progesterone that help inhibit excess estrogen, can be improved with diet. And there are several things which can do this. For instance, a diet low in animal protein will suppress the thyroid, as will polyunsaturated and oxidized fats, sometimes all that is needed is to increase dietary protein intake to over 70 gms/day and remove polyunsaturated fat. A little supplemental progesterone and thyroid would also help in the interim, but I often see all it takes is as little as 6 weeks of dietary changes.Darcy Hemstad, RN, BSNFertility and nutrition educator Certified BOM instructor

There is no literature to the best of my knowledge That transdermal estradiol " bypasses" carcinogenicEffects- it is medically safer but not non- carcinogenicEstradiol is estradiol; it stimulates breast tissueRegardless of how it gets into bodySent from my iPhone

First of all the products to which you refer are not "estrogen" strictly speaking as the estrogens are a group of endogenous human hormones. The synthesized hormones used for HRT and hormonal contraception are not estrogens. This is an important distinction when one is trying to sort out the effects on the body of pharmaceutical hormonal drugs.

Transdermally applied hormones bypass the liver, and thus more of the product is made available. Orally taken hormones must make a pass at the liver first before utilization so less of the product is made available. The bio-availability of hormonal products is dependent on the transdermal absorption rate of the individual and for oral products the individual response by the liver and gut to these products.

Geraldine MatusDirector and Academic DeanJustisse-Healthworks for Womenwww.justisse.ca info@...

10145 - 81 AvenueEdmonton, AB. T6E 1W91- 1-1- (Fx)Behind every wise woman are many other wise women.

Ortho Evra containes a synthetic estrogen(ethinyl estradiol) and not bioidentical human estradiol. It is not at physiologic levels like estradiol replacement patches. It has to have ten times the estrogenic effect and binding to receptors to stop ovulation. In addition it contains another synthetic progestin (norgestimate). In many instances the progestins are more carcinogenic and thrombogenic than the synthetic estrogens.

An AP article the Cincinnati Enquirer for Dec 8 reported a study funded by the G. Komen for the Cure foundation. It was reviewed by Dr. Thun, senior epidemiologist for the American Cancer Society. As reported in the Enquirer, "Weight and obesity matter because fat cells make estrogen, a hormone that fuels the growth of most breast cancers, he said." That's news to me. I have been led ( by Lee and others) to believe that the ovaries make all three forms of estrogen and that fat cells can store estrogen. I will appreciate correction or comment, please.

Another AP article on the same page reported as follows: "A Philadelphia jury has awarded three women $72.6 million in compensatory damages over their use of a hormone replacement drug, and more could be coming when punitive damages are determined.

"...[the jury] ordered ...Pfizer to pay out the damages over the plaintiffs' claims that Prempro gave them breast cancer...

"...Wyeth Pharmaceuticals was hit with dozens of lawsuits after a study found Prempro users had a much higher

incidence of breast cancer... Pfizer bought Wyeth in 2009." Something to think about. What will be the trials and judgments when women start engaging in small group and then class action suits against the Pill manufacturers when the evidence shown by Dr. Kahlenborn finally gets acknowledged? And what will happen when the lawyers start salivating on the kind of class action suits that can be filed in response to the results of the HHS mandate that every doctor and hospital gas to give out the Pill for free?

A Blessed Immaculate Conception Day to all of

you. Kippley