Re: 8000 mg K-does not compute.

[Guest guest]

Daily 8000 mg K.Cl = 8000/39 = 205 mEq = ~10 K.Cl tablets each 20 mEq I take 6 tablets 20 mEq /daily = 4680 mg K.Cl Max Here is how you say you get 8000 mg K a day. I have never seen a supplement with 8000 mg of K a day. Does not compute how are you calculating K intake? Re: Amount of K

[Guest guest]

Over the counter potassium supplements do not compute the same or metabolize the same in the body as say the prescription calcium chloride (which is actually listed ibn milliequivalents and not milligrams like the over the counter). Most bought at a store or nutritional store is potassium gluconate, but you'd have to take over 20 pills a day to get close.

physiologically can't see your body taking in that much per day or you'd be seeing some serious side effects (like very slow heart rate) or peeing 20 times a day (if that was daily intake). I bet whatever form you are using is measured or metabolized different to your closer to 4000 than 8000 and a more safer, and effective you said, dose for you. But it's got to be healthy to get so much from diet.

Subject: 8000 mg K-does not compute.To: hyperaldosteronism Cc: "Grim Clarence" Date: Sunday, December 4, 2011, 7:26 PM

Here is how you say you get 8000 mg K a day.

I have never seen a supplement with 8000 mg of K a day.

Does not compute how are you calculating K intake?

Re: Amount of K

"So are you getting 4,700 mg of K in what you are eating?"I have no idea; I've never calibrated my dietary intake. Some days I may eat 3large bowls of beans (pre-soaked and rinsed or eaten with Beano ;->) and somedays I may eat a banana and a half or whole avocado (depending if my husbandwould like part of it). Some days I eat 1 lg baked potato and some days I eat 2med. Keeping up with how much I eat hasn't been as important to me as the factthat I eat as consistently from that list as possible.K supplements, on the other hand, those I consume at least 8 G daily these daysor more if the symptoms I listed some time back are still problematic for me.

[Guest guest]

Ten a day everyday and you'd die of a bleeding ulcer before Conn's ever got ya

Subject: RE: 8000 mg K-does not compute.To: hyperaldosteronism Date: Sunday, December 4, 2011, 7:49 PM

Daily 8000 mg K.Cl = 8000/39 = 205 mEq = ~10 K.Cl tablets each 20 mEq

I take 6 tablets 20 mEq /daily = 4680 mg K.Cl

Max

Here is how you say you get 8000 mg K a day.

I have never seen a supplement with 8000 mg of K a day.

Does not compute how are you calculating K intake?

Re: Amount of K

[Guest guest]

I experienced that taking K.Cl without enough food caused upset stomach. Initially I cured it by taking Tums but later tried to reduce before bed dose to 20 mEq with small snack and use 60 mEq with main daily meal. This eliminated my upset stomach and I guess I could trick my stomach to assume that all is from the food! I hope this eliminates or reduces possibility of future GI problems. Any folks here has more experience on this topic? I already lost a relative to GI which became intestine cancer and could not be saved. Max. Ten a day everyday and you'd die of a bleeding ulcer before Conn's ever got ya Daily 8000 mg K.Cl = 8000/39 = 205 mEq = ~10 K.Cl tablets each 20 mEqI take 6 tablets 20 mEq /daily = 4680 mg K.ClMax Here is how you say you get 8000 mg K a day. I have never seen a supplement with 8000 mg of K a day. Does not compute how are you calculating K intake? Re: Amount of K

[Guest guest]

The gut problems with KCL is the reason I recommend low Na V-8 and DASH.CE Grim MD I experienced that taking K.Cl without enough food caused upset stomach. Initially I cured it by taking Tums but later tried to reduce before bed dose to 20 mEq with small snack and use 60 mEq with main daily meal. This eliminated my upset stomach and I guess I could trick my stomach to assume that all is from the food! I hope this eliminates or reduces possibility of future GI problems. Any folks here has more experience on this topic? I already lost a relative to GI which became intestine cancer and could not be saved. Max. Ten a day everyday and you'd die of a bleeding ulcer before Conn's ever got ya Daily 8000 mg K.Cl = 8000/39 = 205 mEq = ~10 K.Cl tablets each 20 mEqI take 6 tablets 20 mEq /daily = 4680 mg K.ClMax Here is how you say you get 8000 mg K a day. I have never seen a supplement with 8000 mg of K a day. Does not compute how are you calculating K intake? Re: Amount of K

[Guest guest]

Didn't she say she was using some sort of transdermal K? Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Bingham Over the counter potassium supplements do not compute the same or metabolize the same in the body as say the prescription calcium chloride (which is actually listed ibn milliequivalents and not milligrams like the over the counter). Most bought at a store or nutritional store is potassium gluconate, but you'd have to take over 20 pills a day to get close. physiologically can't see your body taking in that much per day or you'd be seeing some serious side effects (like very slow heart rate) or peeing 20 times a day (if that was daily intake). I bet whatever form you are using is measured or metabolized different to your closer to 4000 than 8000 and a more safer, and effective you said, dose for you. But it's got to be healthy to get so much from diet. Here is how you say you get 8000 mg K a day. I have never seen a supplement with 8000 mg of K a day. Does not compute how are you calculating K intake? Re: Amount of K " So are you getting 4,700 mg of K in what you are eating? " I have no idea; I've never calibrated my dietary intake. Some days I may eat 3large bowls of beans (pre-soaked and rinsed or eaten with Beano ;->) and somedays I may eat a banana and a half or whole avocado (depending if my husbandwould like part of it). Some days I eat 1 lg baked potato and some days I eat 2med. Keeping up with how much I eat hasn't been as important to me as the factthat I eat as consistently from that list as possible.K supplements, on the other hand, those I consume at least 8 G daily these daysor more if the symptoms I listed some time back are still problematic for me..

[Guest guest]

Yes, but no evidence that it gets into the blood stream that I know of. Transdermal K iodine as I recall.Just trying to get the details so we can help others if it works.CE Grim MD Didn't she say she was using some sort of transdermal K? Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Bingham Over the counter potassium supplements do not compute the same or metabolize the same in the body as say the prescription calcium chloride (which is actually listed ibn milliequivalents and not milligrams like the over the counter). Most bought at a store or nutritional store is potassium gluconate, but you'd have to take over 20 pills a day to get close. physiologically can't see your body taking in that much per day or you'd be seeing some serious side effects (like very slow heart rate) or peeing 20 times a day (if that was daily intake). I bet whatever form you are using is measured or metabolized different to your closer to 4000 than 8000 and a more safer, and effective you said, dose for you. But it's got to be healthy to get so much from diet. Here is how you say you get 8000 mg K a day. I have never seen a supplement with 8000 mg of K a day. Does not compute how are you calculating K intake? Re: Amount of K "So are you getting 4,700 mg of K in what you are eating?"I have no idea; I've never calibrated my dietary intake. Some days I may eat 3large bowls of beans (pre-soaked and rinsed or eaten with Beano ;->) and somedays I may eat a banana and a half or whole avocado (depending if my husbandwould like part of it). Some days I eat 1 lg baked potato and some days I eat 2med. Keeping up with how much I eat hasn't been as important to me as the factthat I eat as consistently from that list as possible.K supplements, on the other hand, those I consume at least 8 G daily these daysor more if the symptoms I listed some time back are still problematic for me..

[Guest guest]

Thas whatImsaing. Max: 6 a day really gets most folks tummy but maybe you have an iron gut. I forget what else you are taking? Why so much K?CE Grim MD Ten a day everyday and you'd die of a bleeding ulcer before Conn's ever got ya Subject: RE: 8000 mg K-does not compute.To: hyperaldosteronism Date: Sunday, December 4, 2011, 7:49 PM Daily 8000 mg K.Cl = 8000/39 = 205 mEq = ~10 K.Cl tablets each 20 mEq I take 6 tablets 20 mEq /daily = 4680 mg K.Cl Max Here is how you say you get 8000 mg K a day. I have never seen a supplement with 8000 mg of K a day. Does not compute how are you calculating K intake? Re: Amount of K

[Guest guest]

Until last year I had regular occasions of upset stomach due to KCl and used Tums especially after sleeping at night. 1st I asked doc to replace KCl with K-citrate but discovered not much difference. After that doc prescribed Motilium (Domperidone) 10mg 4 times daily…but I never started it because I had to take each tablet half hr before a meal and I usually have no clue when I have a meal that I can calculate half hr before it…so I developed my own method: moved 20mEq from bedtime to main meal and then after I did not notice upset stomach…bedtime dose is 2 hrs before bed with small snack. Max.62M L adenoma by NP59 scan. Aldos=1065…2056 [28-860] pmol/L, Renin=6 [<30] ng/L. med combo #76={Spiro=100, Amlo=10, Indap=2.5, Ramip=5, Metf=1000, Crestor=20, Feno=67, K.Cl=120 mEq}{K=4.7}{not DASHing but low-salt diet just slightly above craving while keeping K/Na ratio constant, heat intolerance, insulin resistance} Thas whatImsaing. Max: 6 a day really gets most folks tummy but maybe you have an iron gut. I forget what else you are taking? Why so much K? CE Grim MD Ten a day everyday and you'd die of a bleeding ulcer before Conn's ever got ya Subject: RE: 8000 mg K-does not compute.To: hyperaldosteronism Date: Sunday, December 4, 2011, 7:49 PM Daily 8000 mg K.Cl = 8000/39 = 205 mEq = ~10 K.Cl tablets each 20 mEq I take 6 tablets 20 mEq /daily = 4680 mg K.Cl Max Here is how you say you get 8000 mg K a day. I have never seen a supplement with 8000 mg of K a day. Does not compute how are you calculating K intake? Re: Amount of K

[Guest guest]

Some Tums used to be loaded with salt.Spreading K out usually helps. In general I never give other meds to counter act side effects of K on the gut. Just move dosing around or working on DASH more. Have you tried low Na V-8? 1 cup is about 24 mE. But then if you needed 10 cups you would get all of the sodium for the DASH and would probably develop a yellow skin (but not eyeballs) from the hypercarotenemia. CE Grim MD Until last year I had regular occasions of upset stomach due to KCl and used Tums especially after sleeping at night. 1st I asked doc to replace KCl with K-citrate but discovered not much difference. After that doc prescribed Motilium (Domperidone) 10mg 4 times daily…but I never started it because I had to take each tablet half hr before a meal and I usually have no clue when I have a meal that I can calculate half hr before it…so I developed my own method: moved 20mEq from bedtime to main meal and then after I did not notice upset stomach…bedtime dose is 2 hrs before bed with small snack. Max.62M L adenoma by NP59 scan. Aldos=1065…2056 [28-860] pmol/L, Renin=6 [<30] ng/L. med combo #76={Spiro=100, Amlo=10, Indap=2.5, Ramip=5, Metf=1000, Crestor=20, Feno=67, K.Cl=120 mEq}{K=4.7}{not DASHing but low-salt diet just slightly above craving while keeping K/Na ratio constant, heat intolerance, insulin resistance} Thas whatImsaing. Max: 6 a day really gets most folks tummy but maybe you have an iron gut. I forget what else you are taking? Why so much K? CE Grim MD Ten a day everyday and you'd die of a bleeding ulcer before Conn's ever got ya Subject: RE: 8000 mg K-does not compute.To: hyperaldosteronism Date: Sunday, December 4, 2011, 7:49 PM Daily 8000 mg K.Cl = 8000/39 = 205 mEq = ~10 K.Cl tablets each 20 mEq I take 6 tablets 20 mEq /daily = 4680 mg K.Cl Max Here is how you say you get 8000 mg K a day. I have never seen a supplement with 8000 mg of K a day. Does not compute how are you calculating K intake? Re: Amount of K

[Guest guest]

I have already posted what I take and use. I choose not to continue to repeat

myself about it. If you're really interested in knowing, I've posted the info in

my profile at <http://conns.dstartz.com>. You'll need to register and login to

read it.

Donna

--- Clarence Grim wrote:

Yes, but no evidence that it gets into the blood stream that I know of.

Transdermal K iodine as I recall.

Just trying to get the details so we can help others if it works.

CE Grim MD

Didn't she say she was using some sort of transdermal K?

Val

[Guest guest]

Just trying to figure out exactly what you are taking so we can help others.Don't have time for 2 sites. CE Girm MD I have already posted what I take and use. I choose not to continue to repeat myself about it. If you're really interested in knowing, I've posted the info in my profile at <http://conns.dstartz.com>. You'll need to register and login to read it. Donna --- Clarence Grim wrote: Yes, but no evidence that it gets into the blood stream that I know of. Transdermal K iodine as I recall. Just trying to get the details so we can help others if it works. CE Grim MD Didn't she say she was using some sort of transdermal K? Val

[Guest guest]

Before my adrenalectomy, I was taking 175 MEQ (6825 mg.?) of K, 4 times a day

with food. When I had the CT scan, they noticed my stomach was swollen. I had an

endoscopy which showed gastritis so now I am taking 20 mg. of omerorazole, which

I hope to stop next year. I had a similar experience in 2000 when I was taking

mega doses of NSAIDS for an arthritic knee and I could barely walk. I always

thought I had a sensitive stomach, but maybe its more like I have assaulted it

with meds.

Lucy Sage

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone

Bingham wrote:

>Ten a day everyday and you'd die of a bleeding ulcer before Conn's ever got ya

>

>

>

>

>

>Subject: RE: 8000 mg K-does not compute.

>To: hyperaldosteronism

>Date: Sunday, December 4, 2011, 7:49 PM

>

>

>

> 

>

>

>

>

>

>Daily 8000 mg K.Cl = 8000/39 = 205 mEq = ~10 K.Cl tablets each 20 mEq

> 

>I take 6 tablets 20 mEq /daily = 4680 mg K.Cl

> 

>Max

> 

>

>

>Here is how you say you get 8000 mg K a day.

>

> 

>

>I have never seen a supplement with 8000 mg of K a day.

>

>

> 

>

>Does not compute how are you calculating K intake?

>

> 

>

>

>Re: Amount of K

> 

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Not maybe you were. This is an all time record in my random access file in my head. Need thumbnail.Thanks. Also will submit abstract tonight so if everyone can be certain they have updated the their data that would be good. a will then send me excel file and I can forward to anyone else who would like to look at it.a we can now send attachments which go to our files but then I will need to upload it. Thanks.Or maybe better to upload file to our files. Thanks for everyones help. Will send abstract for editing and suggestions if anyone has time. CE Grim MD Before my adrenalectomy, I was taking 175 MEQ (6825 mg.?) of K, 4 times a day with food. When I had the CT scan, they noticed my stomach was swollen. I had an endoscopy which showed gastritis so now I am taking 20 mg. of omerorazole, which I hope to stop next year. I had a similar experience in 2000 when I was taking mega doses of NSAIDS for an arthritic knee and I could barely walk. I always thought I had a sensitive stomach, but maybe its more like I have assaulted it with meds. Lucy Sage Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone Bingham wrote: >Ten a day everyday and you'd die of a bleeding ulcer before Conn's ever got ya > > > > > >Subject: RE: 8000 mg K-does not compute. >To: hyperaldosteronism >Date: Sunday, December 4, 2011, 7:49 PM > > > > > > > > > >Daily 8000 mg K.Cl = 8000/39 = 205 mEq = ~10 K.Cl tablets each 20 mEq > >I take 6 tablets 20 mEq /daily = 4680 mg K.Cl > >Max > > > >Here is how you say you get 8000 mg K a day. > > > >I have never seen a supplement with 8000 mg of K a day. > > > > >Does not compute how are you calculating K intake? > > > > >Re: Amount of K > > > > >

[Guest guest]

The problem is, I don't know what my data originally said. Is there somewhere to find my answers? If not, I cannot update it. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence GrimNot maybe you were. This is an all time record in my random access file in my head. Need thumbnail. Thanks. Also will submit abstract tonight so if everyone can be certain they have updated the their data that would be good. a will then send me excel file and I can forward to anyone else who would like to look at it. a we can now send attachments which go to our files but then I will need to upload it. Thanks. Or maybe better to upload file to our files. Thanks for everyones help. Will send abstract for editing and suggestions if anyone has time.

[Guest guest]

I think you can go to the data site and look at it.See last of item 6. CE Grim MD Welcome to the exciting world of Hyperaldosteronism You are in the right place! I am Dr. CE Grim a retired Professor of Medicine and Endocrinology. I have had a long standing interest is Primary Aldosteronism since medical school days when I saw my first patient with Primary Aldosteronism in 1963 as a 4th year medical student. I did a Nephrology Fellowship at Duke and an Endocrinology and Metabolism Fellowship with Dr. Conn (1969-70). I have been on the faculty of the University of MO, Indiana Univ, UCLA/ R. Drew, and the Medical College of Wisconsin in Divisions of Nephrology, Endocrinology, Hypertension, Cardiology and Epidemiology. I have published over 240 papers and book chapters in most areas of the broad discipline of High Blood Pressure. My CV is in our files for details. The GOAL of our group is to teach you and your health care team about the ins and outs of the causes, diagnosis and control of the many forms of hyperaldosteronism. The steps below will introduce you into the fascinating world of high blood pressure, salt and potassium and the role of the adrenal hormone aldosterone in health and disease. Doing these in sequence will save you time and effort in getting up to speed in taking control of you health and educating your own health care team. While we can’t make you a doctor we will make you into a pretty good BP doctor-a skill that you will have for life. 1. Overview: Read my article in our files on the evolution of PA (Evolution_of_PA-Grim.pdf ) and take to all members of health care team. Tell us what stage you believe you are in. This is a brief review of most causes of hyperaldosteronism, high blood pressure, low potassium (K). Be certain that you and your health care team understand the key role of excess diet salt in HTN and especially in PA. Go to: http://www.worldactiononsalt.com/evidence/treatment_trials.htm For a state of the art and science discussion of salt and health. 2. Other patients with hyperaldosteronism (Conn’s syndrome). Read our Conn's stories in our files and then give us your own in as much detail as you can. Dr. Conn was the first to describe this disease process and the syndrome is named after him. To see others' stories, on the Hyperaldosteronism home page, go to Files/Conn’s Stories. You'll find instructions in "A - How to put your story here.doc "Then send us your story in an email and then we will likely ask more questions and make suggestions before you upload it to our files. 3. Hyperaldosteronism and Salt: The deadly Duo. Eating Plan to control high blood pressure due to hyperaldosteronism and most others with high blood pressure. This will reduce your need for medications and in many will get your BP and K to goal without meds.. Get the DASH diet book by T. et al, read it and use it: $8 in paperback at your local bookstore. If they don’t have it ask them to order it for you. Learning to eat the DASH way will play a major role in your road to good BP and K control and, in many of our folks here, will revolutionize your life. Go to chapter 9 and do the 14 day challenge. Tell your Dr you are doing this as your BP may plummet if you are on other meds in only 2-3 days. or go to http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/public/heart/hbp/dash/new_dash.pdf download this 64 page booklet free and do the Week on the DASH Diet for 2 weeks. If you are on BP meds be prepared for a large fall in BP and let your Dr. know you are doing this. Or go to (but costs money) DASH Diet for Health ProgramThe DASH Diet for Health Program is designed to help you improve your eating and exercise habits. Twice each week we will provide you with information on our website about food, food preparation, eating out, losing weight, getting fit and much more. In addition to providing new information each week on our website, we create a web page specially for you where you can track progress in areas such as your weight, blood pressure, and exercise.http://www.dashforhealth.com/ I strongly recommend you get the book and read it now! 4. Measure your BP: Measure your BP daily so you can see if it is getting better. If you are taking meds be sure to tell your health care team you are doing this as your BP may plummet to normal quickly. We recommend you use a device you listen to and will help you learn how to do this. If this is not something you want to do we can teach a significant other how to do it. See sharedcareinc.com or email to sharedcare@... to order a video on how to do this. If you already have one we will teach you how to teach your health care team how to validate your device. Your life and health depends on accurate BP measurements. Go to the amricanheart.org and download the Guidelines for Human Blood Pressure Measurement. Insist the your health care team do BP the AHA way. Your life is in the hands of those who measure your BP. Never trust your life to an automatic BP machine unless you know it is accurate on YOU. 5. Genetics and your BP: Go to familyhistory.hhs.gov and do your detailed family medical history so we can review with you to help Dx familial causes of high blood pressure and heart disease. If BP runs in your family you may save lives in your family by checking their BP yourself. There is a brief discussion of this in my Evolution Article. 6. How to DX and treat PA: Go to our file/Conn's Articles of Note/Medications/Bravo spir 1973.pdf and read this article and take to your health care team. It is old but still one of the best in the medical management of PA. Also see our file from the Endocrine Society Guidelines on PA. Dr. Grim's Perfect Primary Aldosteronism Blood and Urine Testing to diagnose PA in one day. 1. Eat a high salt diet for 2 weeks-at least 4000 mg of Na a day.2. No BP meds in last 4-12 weeks depending on meds and Drs advice.3. Collect 24 hr urine for Na, K and creatinine and aldosterone. Do not lose a drop of this liquid gold. It is impossible to interpret the renin and aldo without this.4. The morning you finish the 24 hr urine have fasting blood drawn for renin, aldo and K using our guidelines to get an accurate K. Try to get this done about 1-4 hours after you have been out of bed.5. Send us the results with the normal values for your lab.6. If you ever have a salt (saline) infusion test for PA be certain to ask them to measure how much you pee during the 4 hours of the infusion. If it is 1-1.5 liter of urine it strongly suggests that you may have PA. If more tha 1.5 L you almost certainly have PA. I call this Dr. Grim’s “Quick Pee Test” for PA. Our PA Registry: If you have been Dxed with PA already and are on Rx or have had surgery please go to http://www.kwiksurveys.com/online-survey.php?surveyID=HIJIO_f2685379 and complete our survey with as much information as you know. If there is some information you don't know ask us and we will help. If you need to update this as you journey thru the diagnostic/treatment process you can add another entry but label it as Nameyymmdd. For example today 4/20/11 for me would be Grim110420. This way of writing the date is an ever increasing number and will allow us and you to sort your multiple entries into a dated order. We are working on a more extensive database. 8. Learn the language: If you are new to medical lingo then download the acroyms from http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodpressureline/message/291869. Salt and high blood pressure: To learn the state of the science of salt and blood pressure please spend some time looking at http://www.worldactiononsalt.com/evidence/treatment_trials.htm10. Become a HBP expert consumer: Expect that it will take at least several weeks to get all this digested and to learn the new language of high blood pressure health care. As most doctors and nurses in practice have had very little training in high blood pressure you must become an expert yourself. For example most have never had anyone listen with them with a double stethoscope to verify that they can hear BP sounds. We cannot make you a doctor but we will make you a pretty good BP doctor.11. How High Blood Pressure should be managed: Go to nih.gov and download and read the Joint National Commission (JNC) Report 7 to get an overview on current guidelines. I ask all my secretaries to read this so they can communicate the importance of high blood pressure to my patients. JNC 8 will be out soon.Then: get (and study) the Hypertension Primer from americanheart.org. This is the most up-to-date compendium of what is known about high blood pressure and what every Dr. should know when they graduate from Medical School. Every chapter is only 2-3 pages. Read one chapter every week-night and you will finish it in about a year. I am working on a reading guide for lay people for the Primer. Stay tuned.12. Ask us questions: Ask any questions about high blood pressure you want answered. That is what we are here for.13. One-on-one Consulting: I can provide individual consulting if you do not want to go public. If you want individual one-on-one consulting for you and your Doctor contract me directly at lowerbp2@....May your pressure be low!Clarence E. Grim BS, MS, MD, FACP, FACCBoard Certified in Internal Medicine, Geriatrics, and High Blood Pressure Specializing in Primary Aldosteronism and Difficult to Control High Blood Pressure. The problem is, I don't know what my data originally said. Is there somewhere to find my answers? If not, I cannot update it. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence GrimNot maybe you were. This is an all time record in my random access file in my head. Need thumbnail. Thanks. Also will submit abstract tonight so if everyone can be certain they have updated the their data that would be good. a will then send me excel file and I can forward to anyone else who would like to look at it. a we can now send attachments which go to our files but then I will need to upload it. Thanks. Or maybe better to upload file to our files. Thanks for everyones help. Will send abstract for editing and suggestions if anyone has time.