RE: Re: Breast lumps/spiro off topic

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Here we go again. The top 10% pays 70% of the income taxes. How much do the class enviers want? The bottom 47% live off the top 53%. What is the fair share for that group that lives off the 53%? What exactly does " fair share " mean? Actually, I'd like to see the Bush tax cuts end. The bottom bracket would increase by 50%. Maybe then free loaders would pay at least something. http://www.american.com/archive/2007/november-december-magazine-contents/guess-who-really-pays-the-taxes Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence GrimAnd have them pay their fair share.CE Grim We don't hate those filty rich people - we just want to be them and join them.

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The government team in the UK (called " NICE " ) kills people. Look at survival statistics in the UK. Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers. Breast cancer mortality is 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the U.K. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence GrimAh but does it " kill " more that the non-govt team. Phyllis, I didn't say one word about wanting or not wanting people to be insured. My comment in its entirety was to note that medicine by government panel kills people. Have you done a study on the outcomes in VA vs. other facilities, or is that just your opinion? From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Francis Bill SUSPECTED PABoth and I should be seeing some of the best educated Dr there. Our VA is part of the Dartmouth Med school Dr that are trained can expect to earn over $1,00,000,000 in there life time then most other Dr will earn. All Dr at the VA teach at Dartmouth. About 1/2 of Dartmouth Med students intern at the VA. Many Dr work at both the VA and the Dartmouth medical center. This being said at least for me care is less the expected. I have also been to Dartmouth Medical because I didn't feel the care at the VA was what it should be. I found that the care isn't any better there.One Visit to the Dartmouth Ed I was seen by a Dr that didn't seem to know how to put a B/P cuff on. Maybe he went to Yale As Dr Grim said about a year ago Yale does not test there medical students. Said something like when found this out it scared the hell out of h im. Mediocre service is what is now normal.> >> > 3.)About not being able to get proper treatment through the government > > program you're in, it figures, and it boggles my mind to think people > > want government doling that mediocrity out to everyone.Whatever > > happened to doctors treating patients?> >> > Val

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So lack of money kills people. So what else is new.Suspect part of this is that by picking cancer up earlier it appears that we are doing better.Recent AM CA society noteThe importance of money was further illustrated by an ethnic breakdown of outcomes in the US.White Americans, who are on the whole wealthier and therefore more able to afford the insurance which underpins the US system, were up to 14% more likely than others to survive cancer. CE Grim MD The government team in the UK (called "NICE") kills people. Look at survival statistics in the UK. Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers. Breast cancer mortality is 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the U.K. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence GrimAh but does it "kill" more that the non-govt team. Phyllis, I didn't say one word about wanting or not wanting people to be insured. My comment in its entirety was to note that medicine by government panel kills people. Have you done a study on the outcomes in VA vs. other facilities, or is that just your opinion? From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Francis Bill SUSPECTED PABoth and I should be seeing some of the best educated Dr there. Our VA is part of the Dartmouth Med school Dr that are trained can expect to earn over $1,00,000,000 in there life time then most other Dr will earn. All Dr at the VA teach at Dartmouth. About 1/2 of Dartmouth Med students intern at the VA. Many Dr work at both the VA and the Dartmouth medical center. This being said at least for me care is less the expected. I have also been to Dartmouth Medical because I didn't feel the care at the VA was what it should be. I found that the care isn't any better there.One Visit to the Dartmouth Ed I was seen by a Dr that didn't seem to know how to put a B/P cuff on. Maybe he went to Yale As Dr Grim said about a year ago Yale does not test there medical students. Said something like when found this out it scared the hell out of h im. Mediocre service is what is now normal.> >> > 3.)About not being able to get proper treatment through the government > > program you're in, it figures, and it boggles my mind to think people > > want government doling that mediocrity out to everyone.Whatever > > happened to doctors treating patients?> >> > Val

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I have never heard of cancer treatment costing 1 billion for a single person. I am in the wrong business. CE Grim MD It has been a while since I could afford insurance. last time was 1987. At that time max insurance would pay out was $1,000,000,000. At that time cancer treatment could exceede this ammount in a very short time. Seems to me that unless one was very rich having insurance could kill you. > > > > > > 3.)About not being able to get proper treatment through the government > > > program you're in, it figures, and it boggles my mind to think people > > > want government doling that mediocrity out to everyone.Whatever > > > happened to doctors treating patients? > > > > > > Val >

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That's better. But assume one will work for 40 years this comes to only $25,000 a year. Glad I went to Missouri. Maybe it is 10,000,000? for MDs.CE Grim MD Again my thinking is a bit off today. Should be 1,000,000. > > > > > > > > > > 3.)About not being able to get proper treatment through the > > government > > > > > program you're in, it figures, and it boggles my mind to think > > people > > > > > want government doling that mediocrity out to everyone.Whatever > > > > > happened to doctors treating patients? > > > > > > > > > > Val > > > > > > > >

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Francis, the survival statistics of socialized vs not-quite-socialized systems do not confirm your statement. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Francis Bill SUSPECTED PAIt has been a while since I could afford insurance. last time was 1987. At that time max insurance would pay out was $1,000,000,000. At that time cancer treatment could exceede this ammount in a very short time. Seems to me that unless one was very rich having insurance could kill you. >> The government team in the UK (called " NICE " ) kills people. Look at> survival statistics in the UK.> > Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers.> Breast cancer mortality is 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom.> Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the U.K. The mortality> rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent> higher..

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Or how much is wasted without "rules.CE Grim MD Every wonder how much of the VA and Medicare budgets are spent on the rules? How much of your doc's time is spent trying to get proper treatment for people like you? Private business spends 14% of GDP to comply with rules. Val >> I think you have a clear picture of the problem, Val. It's not a problem with my doctor, she's damn good. It's not the lack of availability of state of the art testing. It's the damn rules that get in her way!

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No way of telling. We've never tried to live without all the rules, and the last few years have gotten much worse. If people controlled their own medical accounts, we wouldn't need volumes of rules and thousands of " rules bureaucrats. " Have you ever run a private practice where you had to comply with all the Medicare rules? If you did, I assume you had a whole back office staff to handle it? Doctors are overwhelmed by the sheer monstrous burden of the program. Fully 42% of Denver physicians refuse to participate in Medicare; about one-third nationwide. More and more, seniors will need trained monkeys because no physicians will see them. I get Medicare email updates and am in awe of the burden and complexity. It is no wonder my Lyme doctors refuse Medicare - they can't afford that much staff. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence GrimOr how much is wasted without " rules.Every wonder how much of the VA and Medicare budgets are spent on the rules? How much of your doc's time is spent trying to get proper treatment for people like you? Private business spends 14% of GDP to comply with rules.>> I think you have a clear picture of the problem, Val. It's not a problem with my doctor, she's damn good. It's not the lack of availability of state of the art testing. It's the damn rules that get in her way!

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But you would need folks have a good grasp of medical concepts which few really have. Should start teaching these concepts in school I think starting in grade school I would think.CE Grim No way of telling. We've never tried to live without all the rules, and the last few years have gotten much worse. If people controlled their own medical accounts, we wouldn't need volumes of rules and thousands of "rules bureaucrats." Have you ever run a private practice where you had to comply with all the Medicare rules? If you did, I assume you had a whole back office staff to handle it? Doctors are overwhelmed by the sheer monstrous burden of the program. Fully 42% of Denver physicians refuse to participate in Medicare; about one-third nationwide. More and more, seniors will need trained monkeys because no physicians will see them. I get Medicare email updates and am in awe of the burden and complexity. It is no wonder my Lyme doctors refuse Medicare - they can't afford that much staff. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence GrimOr how much is wasted without "rules.Every wonder how much of the VA and Medicare budgets are spent on the rules? How much of your doc's time is spent trying to get proper treatment for people like you? Private business spends 14% of GDP to comply with rules.>> I think you have a clear picture of the problem, Val. It's not a problem with my doctor, she's damn good. It's not the lack of availability of state of the art testing. It's the damn rules that get in her way!