RE: Zeel, Traumeel, oral Arnica doses for arthritic dogs

[Guest guest]

Have you considered changing their diets and get them off a grain diet to a total "grain free diet". Most of those you described, are probably "gluten" sensitive and will do much better on a gluten free diet. Gluten is in: wheat, barley, rye, oats, spelt and bran. Check their foods, and I bet you they are all on a dry food with gluten. Kortekaas PT www.fullspectrumcaninetherapy.com Zeel, Traumeel, oral Arnica doses for arthritic dogs I am currently seeing a number of arthritic dogs that are negatively affected by weather shifts. Some of the dogs are on NSAIDS and/or tramadol already. Others do not want to use NSAIDS and have tried Adequan and Duralactin with some success, but the dogs will still have some "bad" days. Most are also being seen for Laser therapy, Treadmill, acupuncture, and/or chiropractic. I am hoping by adding in a homeopathic option, the dogs will have less "bad" days especially in spring and fall in Chicago. The dogs vary in weight from 25 pounds to 95 pounds. Any suggestions on how to dose dogs with homeopathics or any other ideas are greatly appreciated.VCA Aurora Rehab Coordinator

[Guest guest]

,

I have quizzed a number of board certified

nutritionists (none affiliated with pet food companies) and they don’t

feel gluten sensitivity is that common in dogs.

I am well aware of the seriousness of the

problem in people (in Madison we have great holistic food awareness for people),

but the whole “anti-grain movement” in pet foods is kind of a

mystery to me especially when we consider that dogs really are omnivorous and have

historically eaten plant materials including grains of many types .

Could you provide some resources supported

by boarded nutritionists that support the gluten sensitivity that you are talking

about or any other “anti –grain” information?

I am giving a nutrition talk to 200 ie

owners in less than a month and want to make sure I consider this area of

concern in a balanced but scientific/evidence based way.

Thanks so much,

Ken Lambrecht DVM

Medical Director

Westside Family Pet Clinic

Fitness & Rehab Director

4 Paws Swim & Fitness

www.westsidepet.net

From:

VetRehab [mailto:VetRehab ] On Behalf Of Kortekaas

Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 5:01

AM

To: VetRehab

Subject: Re: Zeel,

Traumeel, oral Arnica doses for arthritic dogs

Have you considered changing their diets and get them off a grain diet

to a total " grain free diet " . Most of those you described, are

probably " gluten " sensitive and will do much better on a gluten free

diet. Gluten is in: wheat, barley, rye, oats, spelt and bran. Check their

foods, and I bet you they are all on a dry food with gluten.

Kortekaas PT

www.fullspectrumcaninetherapy.com

Zeel,

Traumeel, oral Arnica doses for arthritic dogs

I am currently seeing a number of arthritic dogs that

are negatively affected by weather shifts. Some of the dogs are on NSAIDS

and/or tramadol already. Others do not want to use NSAIDS and have tried

Adequan and Duralactin with some success, but the dogs will still have some

" bad " days. Most are also being seen for Laser therapy, Treadmill,

acupuncture, and/or chiropractic. I am hoping by adding in a homeopathic

option, the dogs will have less " bad " days especially in spring and

fall in Chicago.

The dogs vary in weight from 25 pounds to 95 pounds. Any suggestions on how to

dose dogs with homeopathics or any other ideas are greatly appreciated.

VCA Aurora Rehab Coordinator

[Guest guest]

Hi Ken, Thanks for the inquiry and I will try to help you with as much research I have. We need way more research on this subject and one of the the biggest problems with the gluten is, that the % from gluten in wheat went from 2% to 50-60% in the last 50 years. Partly due through GMO. The other problem is: Glyco-proteins in gluten are like "sticky" glue what goes for the areas with vascular damage and/or genetic weakess links. Might be a big cause for muscular-skeletal problems. See the articles of Symes, DVM at www.dogtorJ.com. Articles: 1. Abnormal permeability precedes the development of a gluten sensitive enteropathy in Irsh setter dogs. by EJ Hall and R.M. Batt 1991 2. A case control study of risk factors for canine atopic dermatitis among boxer, bull terrries and West Highland white terries dogs in Sweden. by Nadtvedt, Bergvall, Sallader etc. 3. Dieraty modulation of gluten sensitivity in a naturally occuring enteropathy of the Irish setter dogs. by Hall and Batt 1992 4. Inheritance of gluten sensitivity enteropathy in Irish setters, by Garden, Pidduck, Lakhani, April 2000 and there are several more. I am leaving for Europe to teach, so I will have to get back to you later. The dogs from the Britisch Isles are the most sensitive especially the Irish dogs and they think it is has a relationship to epigenetics changed in the middle of 1800. "Irish Potatoe Famine". I will for ward you some answers from two other vets, Toni Lynch and Klein, DVM Hope this helps. Kortekaas PT Zeel, Traumeel, oral Arnica doses for arthritic dogs I am currently seeing a number of arthritic dogs that are negatively affected by weather shifts. Some of the dogs are on NSAIDS and/or tramadol already. Others do not want to use NSAIDS and have tried Adequan and Duralactin with some success, but the dogs will still have some "bad" days. Most are also being seen for Laser therapy, Treadmill, acupuncture, and/or chiropractic. I am hoping by adding in a homeopathic option, the dogs will have less "bad" days especially in spring and fall in Chicago. The dogs vary in weight from 25 pounds to 95 pounds. Any suggestions on how to dose dogs with homeopathics or any other ideas are greatly appreciated.VCA Aurora Rehab Coordinator

[Guest guest]

,Thanks for the references.  Could you tell us what journals these articles are published in?Thanks!Leilani Alvarez, DVM, CVA

Hi Ken,   Thanks for the inquiry and I will try to help you with as much research I have. We need way more research on this subject and one of the the biggest problems with the gluten is, that the % from gluten in wheat went from 2% to 50-60% in the last 50 years. Partly due through GMO. The other problem is: Glyco-proteins in gluten are like " sticky " glue what goes for the areas with vascular damage and/or genetic weakess links. Might be a big cause for muscular-skeletal problems. See the articles of Symes, DVM at www.dogtorJ.com.

  Articles: 1. Abnormal permeability precedes the development of a gluten sensitive enteropathy in Irsh setter dogs. by EJ Hall and R.M. Batt 1991   2. A case control study of risk factors for canine atopic dermatitis among boxer, bull terrries and West Highland white terries dogs in Sweden. by Nadtvedt, Bergvall, Sallader etc.

  3. Dieraty modulation of gluten sensitivity in a naturally occuring enteropathy of the Irish setter dogs. by Hall and Batt 1992   4. Inheritance of gluten sensitivity enteropathy in Irish setters, by Garden, Pidduck, Lakhani, April 2000

  and there are several more. I am leaving for Europe to teach, so I will have to get back to you later. The dogs from the Britisch Isles are the most sensitive especially the Irish dogs and they think it is has a relationship to epigenetics changed in the middle of 1800. " Irish Potatoe Famine " .

  I will for ward you some answers from two other vets, Toni Lynch and Klein, DVM   Hope this helps. Kortekaas PT      

Zeel, Traumeel, oral Arnica doses for arthritic dogs

I am currently seeing a number of arthritic dogs that are negatively affected by weather shifts. Some of the dogs are on NSAIDS and/or tramadol already. Others do not want to use NSAIDS and have tried Adequan and Duralactin with some success, but the dogs will still have some " bad " days. Most are also being seen for Laser therapy, Treadmill, acupuncture, and/or chiropractic. I am hoping by adding in a homeopathic option, the dogs will have less " bad " days especially in spring and fall in Chicago. The dogs vary in weight from 25 pounds to 95 pounds. Any suggestions on how to dose dogs with homeopathics or any other ideas are greatly appreciated.

VCA Aurora Rehab Coordinator

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I will refer to the numbers below where they come from.

1. Gut, 1991, 32, 749-753 Department of Veterinary Pathology, University of Liverpool, Liverpool

2. The Authors. Journal compilation 2007. ESVD and ACVD. 18, 309-3153. Gut, 1992. 33, 198-205

4. AJVR, Vol 61. No 4, April 2000

5. Evidence for a compensatory increase in synthesis of brush border enzymes in the jejunum of Irish Setters with gluten sensitive enteropathy. AJVR, Vol 59, No. 11. November 1998

6. Characterization of intestinal morphologic, biochemical, and ultrastructural features in gluten-sensitive Irish Setters during controlled oral gluten challenge exposure after weaning. AJVR, Vol. 59, No. 11 November 1998

7. Evaluation of intestinal permeability and gluten sensitivity in Soft Coated Wheaten Terriers with familial protein-losing enteropathy, protein-losing nephropathy, or both. AJVR, Vol 61, No. 5. May 2000

Don't forget to look at Symes, DVM web site www.dogtorJ.com. He is very informitive on this subject.

Good luck,

Kortekaas PT

www.fullspectrumcaninetherapy.com

To: VetRehab From: leilani.alvarez@...Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 22:02:12 -0400Subject: Re: Zeel, Traumeel, oral Arnica doses for arthritic dogs

,

Thanks for the references. Could you tell us what journals these articles are published in?

Thanks!

Leilani Alvarez, DVM, CVA

On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 1:02 AM, Kortekaas <pkortekaasmsn> wrote:

Hi Ken,

Thanks for the inquiry and I will try to help you with as much research I have. We need way more research on this subject and one of the the biggest problems with the gluten is, that the % from gluten in wheat went from 2% to 50-60% in the last 50 years. Partly due through GMO. The other problem is: Glyco-proteins in gluten are like "sticky" glue what goes for the areas with vascular damage and/or genetic weakess links. Might be a big cause for muscular-skeletal problems. See the articles of Symes, DVM at www.dogtorJ.com.

Articles:

1. Abnormal permeability precedes the development of a gluten sensitive enteropathy in Irsh setter dogs. by EJ Hall and R.M. Batt 1991

2. A case control study of risk factors for canine atopic dermatitis among boxer, bull terrries and West Highland white terries dogs in Sweden. by Nadtvedt, Bergvall, Sallader etc.

3. Dieraty modulation of gluten sensitivity in a naturally occuring enteropathy of the Irish setter dogs. by Hall and Batt 1992

4. Inheritance of gluten sensitivity enteropathy in Irish setters, by Garden, Pidduck, Lakhani, April 2000

and there are several more. I am leaving for Europe to teach, so I will have to get back to you later. The dogs from the Britisch Isles are the most sensitive especially the Irish dogs and they think it is has a relationship to epigenetics changed in the middle of 1800. "Irish Potatoe Famine".

I will for ward you some answers from two other vets, Toni Lynch and Klein, DVM

Hope this helps.

Kortekaas PT

Zeel, Traumeel, oral Arnica doses for arthritic dogs

I am currently seeing a number of arthritic dogs that are negatively affected by weather shifts. Some of the dogs are on NSAIDS and/or tramadol already. Others do not want to use NSAIDS and have tried Adequan and Duralactin with some success, but the dogs will still have some "bad" days. Most are also being seen for Laser therapy, Treadmill, acupuncture, and/or chiropractic. I am hoping by adding in a homeopathic option, the dogs will have less "bad" days especially in spring and fall in Chicago. The dogs vary in weight from 25 pounds to 95 pounds. Any suggestions on how to dose dogs with homeopathics or any other ideas are greatly appreciated.VCA Aurora Rehab Coordinator

[Guest guest]

I have just started using the Zeel, so I'll put in my 2 cents, for what it's

worth. I have found a great response in my acupuncture cases that I've used it

on. Most are getting Zeel injections into acupuncture points (aquapuncture). I

use a protocol I adapted from Dr Andi Looney at Cornell- I mix the vial of Zeel

(2.2 ml) with sterile saline (6-10cc) and inject it into the points. You can

adjust the volume of saline to get what you want,depending on the number of

points. I don't think you can overdo it with the amount of Zeel, but you can

reduce the dose for smaller patients (especially if it helps the cost if you can

split a vial between two smaller patients) For a Persian cat I have I use 0.4

cc Zeel. Since there is 1.8cc Zeel left, the owner gives 0.1 cc orally daily

between treatments. I have two St Bernards taking Zeel tablets in addition to

their monthly acupuncture-- they get 2 tablets twice a day. (they weigh

125-150#). For your smaller patients I would use 1/2 tablet Zeel twice daily

and go up to 1 or 1 1/2 tablets for your 95# guy. (And you can use the tablets

even if you aren't using the injectables-- i have one patient on tablets alone)

I have not used the Traumeel yet injectable, but for humans the cream is

awesome for reducing pain/swelling/bruising! I just went to an intro lecture on

the Heel products given by PJ Broadfoot. She uses much smaller doses of the

homeopathics-- typically 0.1ml, but she often is combining multiple products and

mixing it with the patients own blood (a technique called autosanguinous, but

I'm not very familiar with it to explain more than that. I'm sure others on the

list can help.) She doesn't do acupuncture, so she just injects it. She has

written about using the products and her protocols in a new book on

Complementary Medicine (she is one of multiple authors) if you want to look

further. Hopefully others with more experience than I will chime in-- I would

like to hear how others are using the products too!

The other thing I would add is that if your acupuncturist is trained in using

Chinese herbal formulas, there may be something that may help with adding herbs

in, too.

Sandy Young DVM, CVA, CVH, CCRT-in-training

>

> I am currently seeing a number of arthritic dogs that are negatively affected

by weather shifts. Some of the dogs are on NSAIDS and/or tramadol already.

Others do not want to use NSAIDS and have tried Adequan and Duralactin with some

success, but the dogs will still have some " bad " days. Most are also being seen

for Laser therapy, Treadmill, acupuncture, and/or chiropractic. I am hoping by

adding in a homeopathic option, the dogs will have less " bad " days especially in

spring and fall in Chicago. The dogs vary in weight from 25 pounds to 95

pounds. Any suggestions on how to dose dogs with homeopathics or any other

ideas are greatly appreciated.

>

> VCA Aurora Rehab Coordinator

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

My experience is mostly with traumeel in competition dogs, but I do have a little experience with it in arthritic dogs as well. In my experience 1 tablet 2-3 times a day works well for most dogs and has decreased the need for other drugs. I do own a 8.5 lb toy fox terrier and have found with her if I give more than 1/2 tablet by mouth BID for several days in a row I get some vomiting. I also know of one other dog that will vomit if given 1 tab BID for more than a week (also less than 20 lbs). For both dogs the vomiting is self limiting and a 24-48 hour break from traumeel and restarting at a lower dose fixes the problem. Although I know many that are firm believers in it, I haven't had as good a result with the traumeel gel. I should also add that most the dogs I've worked with are getting at a minimum chiropractic on a regular basis and some are also getting acupuncture, laser, or other therapies.

Polazzi, DVM

To: VetRehab From: melhorlock@...Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 15:22:31 +0000Subject: Zeel, Traumeel, oral Arnica doses for arthritic dogs

I am currently seeing a number of arthritic dogs that are negatively affected by weather shifts. Some of the dogs are on NSAIDS and/or tramadol already. Others do not want to use NSAIDS and have tried Adequan and Duralactin with some success, but the dogs will still have some "bad" days. Most are also being seen for Laser therapy, Treadmill, acupuncture, and/or chiropractic. I am hoping by adding in a homeopathic option, the dogs will have less "bad" days especially in spring and fall in Chicago. The dogs vary in weight from 25 pounds to 95 pounds. Any suggestions on how to dose dogs with homeopathics or any other ideas are greatly appreciated.VCA Aurora Rehab Coordinator

[Guest guest]

I use all the Heel products and have great success with Traumeel for acute and subacute problems, Zeel for chronic stuff and use combinations frequently. I have heard of only one person to have the reaction that you describe with the nausea, but all well adjusted animals are exquistely and happily more sensitive to the effects of all medications, conventional and otherwise. The information and studies are all on the HeelUSA.com site if you want the science. You may need to log in as a member or new account to get to the Rx protocol "club" but it is well worth it. I find homotox remedies to be very useful adjunctive care. If you pay attention to who gets it and who doesn't you will realize that those that do get it seem to do significantly better. Judith M. Shoemaker, DVMAlways Helpful Veterinary Services305 Nottingham RoadNottingham, PA 19362ph fax info@... www.judithshoemaker.com

To: vetrehab From: polazzil@...Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 22:01:02 -0500Subject: RE: Zeel, Traumeel, oral Arnica doses for arthritic dogs

Hi, My experience is mostly with traumeel in competition dogs, but I do have a little experience with it in arthritic dogs as well. In my experience 1 tablet 2-3 times a day works well for most dogs and has decreased the need for other drugs. I do own a 8.5 lb toy fox terrier and have found with her if I give more than 1/2 tablet by mouth BID for several days in a row I get some vomiting. I also know of one other dog that will vomit if given 1 tab BID for more than a week (also less than 20 lbs). For both dogs the vomiting is self limiting and a 24-48 hour break from traumeel and restarting at a lower dose fixes the problem. Although I know many that are firm believers in it, I haven't had as good a result with the traumeel gel. I should also add that most the dogs I've worked with are getting at a minimum chiropractic on a regular basis and some are also getting acupuncture, laser, or other therapies. Polazzi, DVM

To: VetRehab From: melhorlockDate: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 15:22:31 +0000Subject: Zeel, Traumeel, oral Arnica doses for arthritic dogs

I am currently seeing a number of arthritic dogs that are negatively affected by weather shifts. Some of the dogs are on NSAIDS and/or tramadol already. Others do not want to use NSAIDS and have tried Adequan and Duralactin with some success, but the dogs will still have some "bad" days. Most are also being seen for Laser therapy, Treadmill, acupuncture, and/or chiropractic. I am hoping by adding in a homeopathic option, the dogs will have less "bad" days especially in spring and fall in Chicago. The dogs vary in weight from 25 pounds to 95 pounds. Any suggestions on how to dose dogs with homeopathics or any other ideas are greatly appreciated.VCA Aurora Rehab Coordinator

Rediscover Hotmail®: Get e-mail storage that grows with you. Check it out.

[Guest guest]

I have only recently starting using these products but have received very favorable responses from the owners.  I use the sterile ampules of Traumeel and Zeel as aquapuncture.  2 ml (1 ampule) for dogs and 1 ml for cats once weekly.  You can also get them in tablet form to send home with the owners, which I have found very useful especially for pets that can not tolerate NSAIDs.

The representative from Heel that I worked with was exceptionally helpful.  Here are her details:Mindy Cole

Pharmaceutical RepresentativeHeel Inc.10421 Research Road, SE

Albuquerque, NM 87123Tel:    Ext. 2937

fax: 1.mcole@...

I agree with Judith that compared to pets that do not receive the homeopathic they seem to do much better.Best,Leilani Alvarez, DVM, CVA

I use all the Heel products and have great success with Traumeel for acute and subacute problems, Zeel for chronic stuff and use combinations frequently.  I have heard of only one person to have the reaction that you describe with the nausea, but all well adjusted animals are exquistely and happily more sensitive to the effects of all medications, conventional and otherwise.  The information and studies are all on the HeelUSA.com site if you want the science.  You may need to log in as a member or new account to get to the Rx protocol " club " but it is well worth it.  I find homotox remedies to be very useful adjunctive care.  If you pay attention to who gets it and who doesn't you will realize that those that do get it seem to do significantly better.     

Judith M. Shoemaker, DVMAlways Helpful Veterinary Services305 Nottingham RoadNottingham, PA 19362ph fax

 info@... www.judithshoemaker.com 

To: vetrehab From: polazzil@...Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 22:01:02 -0500

Subject: RE: Zeel, Traumeel, oral Arnica doses for arthritic dogs

Hi,  My experience is mostly with traumeel in competition dogs, but I do have a little experience with it in arthritic dogs as well.  In my experience 1 tablet 2-3 times a day works well for most dogs and has decreased the need for other drugs.  I do own a 8.5 lb toy fox terrier and have found with her if I give more than 1/2 tablet by mouth BID for several days in a row I get some vomiting.  I also know of one other dog that will vomit if given 1 tab BID for more than a week (also less than 20 lbs).  For both dogs the vomiting is self limiting and a 24-48 hour break from traumeel and restarting at a lower dose fixes the problem.  Although I know many that are firm believers in it, I haven't had as good a result with the traumeel gel.  I should also add that most the dogs I've worked with are getting at a minimum chiropractic on a regular basis and some are also getting acupuncture, laser, or other therapies.

Polazzi, DVM 

To: VetRehab From: melhorlock@...Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 15:22:31 +0000

Subject: Zeel, Traumeel, oral Arnica doses for arthritic dogs

I am currently seeing a number of arthritic dogs that are negatively affected by weather shifts. Some of the dogs are on NSAIDS and/or tramadol already. Others do not want to use NSAIDS and have tried Adequan and Duralactin with some success, but the dogs will still have some " bad " days. Most are also being seen for Laser therapy, Treadmill, acupuncture, and/or chiropractic. I am hoping by adding in a homeopathic option, the dogs will have less " bad " days especially in spring and fall in Chicago. The dogs vary in weight from 25 pounds to 95 pounds. Any suggestions on how to dose dogs with homeopathics or any other ideas are greatly appreciated.

VCA Aurora Rehab Coordinator

Rediscover Hotmail®: Get e-mail storage that grows with you. Check it out.