Re: How Much Were You Taking???/My Doctor

[Guest guest]

He didn't just move, he sold his practice. And my assumptions are founded in the fact that he prescribed 80 mg. of a drug with the potential for very dangerous side effects and then did not connect my symptoms to that drug. If he was that careless with my health, does it not stand to reason that other patients might also have suffered ill effects from his doctoring? By the way, the presumption orf innocence is brought to bear on our judicial system. I am not convicting him, merely stating my opinion. That's called freedom of speech.juddworld wrote:

maybe he lost his lease, other had totally unrelated reasons for moving. you're making an awful lot of assumptions with very little information. Innocent until proven guilty in America.

Re: Re: How Much Were You Taking???/My Doctor

Thanks for the tip! I'd searched before but hadn't found any source that didn't charge for the information. I just checked him out on the state medical board's web site and it shows no disciplinary action against him. So I'm still baffled. Since he's only 36, you'd think he'd want to hang onto his greatest asset--his very busy practice. Obviously there was some very compelling reason for him to sell. There is the possibility of course that there's litigation in progress, which I'd think could take months or even years to work its way through the legal system. The medical board's report doesn't include any pending litigation.

wildcats_of_blue wrote:

Indeed, it sounds fishy. If you are in the USA:You can check your physician's background and license status to see if there are any complaints filed. Try searching on "<Your State> medical board" in Google or "Practitioner Profile". Each state has some type of reporting system. Most are self reporting, but they are supposed to report legal actions taken against them or report board final disciplinary action taken against them. Or go right to the AMA:AMA - Reporting ethical violationshttp://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/2509.htmlFrom this page you select your state.

[Guest guest]

I don't mean to belittle your troubles or concerns. I too have been affected negatively by the statins. It's my opinion that most Doctors are trying to help us. Contrary to popular belief, they don't make anymore money for prescribing one drug or the other. They may get little gifts from the sales rep (clipboards, pens, etc), but no extra on the paycheck. I think the trouble lies further up the chain of command. Doctors use the tools and information they are given. My fault with a lot of them is that, like in your case, they ignore the complaints of the patients and listen to the biased information from the drug companies and their "studies".

I guess my point was, your Doctor may have been doing what he thought is best for you. It's your opinion that he's a poor Doctor for not addressing your concerns and side effects more forthrightly. That's your opinion and it's probably true as that seems to be a common complaint. He is a bad Doctor if he didn't give you the respect of taking your troubles seriously. But, to suggest in a public forum that he has probably moved to duck malpractice suits from other disgruntled patients is almost slanderous as you have no information other than your assumptions and your experience with him. If he is ducking lawsuits or the like, moving wouldn't help him much unless he grew a beard and changed his name and occupation.

I think it's easy for a lot of us to focus our anger at our GP's who are only following drug company guidelines. It is frustrating when we complain and they quote the drug companies literature about the low side effect profile. My doctor's favorite quote is "these medications are well tolerated"... We'll I don't tolerate them well at all. Do I think I have a bad Doctor?? Not really. I think he is doing what he thinks is best for me (I've had a heart attack). The statistics show that statins do improve my odds. He pretty much said that it's a trade off with the side effects. If I can tolerate what I can, I'm still better off on the drugs than off. But who's makes the final decision?? Me, I can decide to take or not to take them. There are a couple I will never put in my mouth again (Lipitor is one of them). We can be our own advocates with our Doctors and if we have a Doctor that doesn't take us seriously, it's time to get a new one, rather than just "follow Doctor's orders"..

Statins have been shown to help a lot of people and prevent cardio events. My opinion is that the lowest dose possible be used along with other lifestyle changes, supplements etc. to get to ones goal I think there is a LARGE amount of people who are taking them that shouldn't be nor need to me. Anyway, I'm done ranting. Sorry for the long tirade.

Re: Re: How Much Were You Taking???/My Doctor

Thanks for the tip! I'd searched before but hadn't found any source that didn't charge for the information. I just checked him out on the state medical board's web site and it shows no disciplinary action against him. So I'm still baffled. Since he's only 36, you'd think he'd want to hang onto his greatest asset--his very busy practice. Obviously there was some very compelling reason for him to sell. There is the possibility of course that there's litigation in progress, which I'd think could take months or even years to work its way through the legal system. The medical board's report doesn't include any pending litigation.

wildcats_of_blue wrote:

Indeed, it sounds fishy. If you are in the USA:You can check your physician's background and license status to see if there are any complaints filed. Try searching on "<Your State> medical board" in Google or "Practitioner Profile". Each state has some type of reporting system. Most are self reporting, but they are supposed to report legal actions taken against them or report board final disciplinary action taken against them. Or go right to the AMA:AMA - Reporting ethical violationshttp://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/2509.htmlFrom this page you select your state.

[Guest guest]

very good points and I have to agree with all of them, especially about the Doctor's doing there job. And you're right, you did keep him anonymous. What I don't understand is the package warnings tell you to report any muscle weakness etc immediately. And then when you do, the Doctor is yawning and staring out the window! Then they do a CK muscle test and a liver sgot, and if it isn't out of line, they inform you that you are not having side effects. I can relate to the brain fog, although I think some of mine came/comes from the beta blocker I take as well as the statins. can you say sloooow motion?? The brain fog is the worst. I would be in the Doc's trying to explain things and couldn't articulate what the heck I was trying to say and I felt as he was sitting there rolling his eyes at me. Doing menial tasks took an enormous amount of concentration. Lipitor also made me depressed and VERY crabby.

lipitor and crestor affected me the worst. I am temporarily off statins (crestor was the last) and when I go back on it will be 10mgs zocor and 10mgs zetia. For some reason a low dose of zocor doesn't bother me much if you exclude chronically sore feet. This won't get me to goal number wise, but close enough and gives me something to work on. I think the statins work in part by lowering inflammation/stabilizing plaque and it isn't just the numbers. My heart is pretty clear, but I had a piece of plaque burst in the LAD (main heart artery, bad spot for a heart attack), got a clot and died and zapped back to life in the ER. It's a miracle I'm still here. (I was 42 whan I had the MI, 45 now) My smoking caused the inflammation (according to the cardiologist). Bad fats (hydrogynated oils etc) and bad diet cause it as well. Inflammation roughs up the interioir of the arteries and sets one up for an MI. More MI's happen this way then do from finally becoming all plugged up. Plugging up slow usually give one some warning (Clinton), a blood clot can come out of the blue and is actually deadlier..

I'll quite droning on here. It's nice to have an healthy exchange of experiences, opinions and ideas. I appreciate your candidness.

Re: Re: How Much Were You Taking???/My Doctor

I agree wholeheartedly that we need to take responsibility for our own health. And also that doctors, in general, are trying to do what's best for their patients. Which is why I mentioned here a day or two ago that I had no interest in suing my doctor. Pfizer, yes. The doctor, no. But the fact remains that his dismissal of the devastating side effects that I was suffering was at least bordering on malpractice. He's the expert, or is supposed to be. Also, those very side effects I was experiencing included such a profound mental fog that I was incapable of figuring out for myself that hey, I am one of those people they're talking to in those Lipitor ads when they say to report muscle pain or weakness to your doctor. After all, hadn't I already done so?! And my doctor wasn't concerned!

As for my slandering the man, how can it be slander when I have not identified him? Legally, it isn't slander if the charges are against someone who remains anonymous. And I never thought he expected to dodge disgruntled patients by moving. My guess is that he had suffered a financial crisis which required him to liquidate his practice. As far as I can see, I have been far more respectful of him than he was of me. I trusted him to help me stay healthy, and although I don't believe it was a deliberate act on his part that I was harmed by what he did, there is absolutely an element of negligence in his refusing to take my complaints seriously. Especially since those pharmaceutical reps don't tell the doctors that the statins do not have any side effects. They say the side effects are rare and usually not serious. It is the doctor's job to be on the lookout for side effects when patients report them. Surely he knew that muscle pain and weakness was a red flag. Especially when he has put the patient on the very highest dose of the drug. Even the general public (at least those whose minds aren't too fogged by the statins) know that now, with all the commercials including that little disclaimer. If he did not know it, then he was ignorant as well as negligent. In which case I would not be at all surprised if someone has sued him by now. (Hey, you don't suppose he's on Lipitor and that's given him brain fog??! Possible but not likely, I'd think, since he's a very athletic 36-year-old.) As for the little goodies the doctors get from the pharmaceutical reps, I've heard they include much more than what you mentioned. How about everything from clipboards and pens all the way up to very expensive wining and dining, entertainment, and trips?

I think it serves no useful purpose to let the doctors off the hook entirely (number one on the oath they take is "First, do no harm."), and after all, they do have a responsibility to us, their patients, to be both conscientious and cautious. But the bottom line is that there are several villains in this whole scenario, but the worst of them probably aren't the doctors. I'd put both the pharmaceutical companies and the FDA way up there at the top of the list. Until something is done about that too-cozy partnership, at least we can try to help each other deal with the after-effects. Peace!

juddworld wrote:

I don't mean to belittle your troubles or concerns. I too have been affected negatively by the statins. It's my opinion that most Doctors are trying to help us.

[Guest guest]

Some doctors are more responsible than others. About five years ago my husband

had a second round of chemotheraphy for lymphoma, and one of the chemo drugs

they gave him was Adriamycin, which has the potential to cause serious heart

failure in doses above a certain maximum. The problem is that he had gotten this

maximum the first time, and the dr gave it to him again without telling him of

the risks. He developed congestive heart failure, which the dr admitted was due

to the Adriamycin, but he didn't think it was any big deal: " You don't have heart

failure any more, you've been treated for it " , and when my son asked the dr

about the warnings in the PDR (Physicians' Desk Reference) he said, " We never

read that. " We sued and won. (Cost half of the settlement between costs and

lawyers, but as one of the consulting doctors said, " After we get through with

him, he WILL read it. " One problem is that some doctors do not want to tell you

about the downsides of the meds because they think that the benefits are such

that we should take the meds and take our chances, and in cases like ours, when

the side effects are in a different part of the body, they don't take them

seriously.

We have been very careful to research side effects ever since then,but the

official stuff that comes with the statins do NOT tell us what we need to know.

Linden

" juddworld " wrote:

>I don't mean to belittle your troubles or concerns. I too have been affected

negatively by the statins. It's my opinion that most Doctors are trying to help

us. Contrary to popular belief, they don't make anymore money for prescribing

one drug or the other. They may get little gifts from the sales rep (clipboards,

pens, etc), but no extra on the paycheck. I think the trouble lies further up

the chain of command. Doctors use the tools and information they are given. My

fault with a lot of them is that, like in your case, they ignore the complaints

of the patients and listen to the biased information from the drug companies and

their " studies " .

>

>I guess my point was, your Doctor may have been doing what he thought is best

for you. It's your opinion that he's a poor Doctor for not addressing your

concerns and side effects more forthrightly. That's your opinion and it's

probably true as that seems to be a common complaint. He is a bad Doctor if he

didn't give you the respect of taking your troubles seriously. But, to suggest

in a public forum that he has probably moved to duck malpractice suits from

other disgruntled patients is almost slanderous as you have no information other

than your assumptions and your experience with him. If he is ducking lawsuits or

the like, moving wouldn't help him much unless he grew a beard and changed his

name and occupation.

>

>I think it's easy for a lot of us to focus our anger at our GP's who are only

following drug company guidelines. It is frustrating when we complain and they

quote the drug companies literature about the low side effect profile. My

doctor's favorite quote is " these medications are well tolerated " ... We'll I

don't tolerate them well at all. Do I think I have a bad Doctor?? Not really. I

think he is doing what he thinks is best for me (I've had a heart attack). The

statistics show that statins do improve my odds. He pretty much said that it's a

trade off with the side effects. If I can tolerate what I can, I'm still better

off on the drugs than off. But who's makes the final decision?? Me, I can decide

to take or not to take them. There are a couple I will never put in my mouth

again (Lipitor is one of them). We can be our own advocates with our Doctors and

if we have a Doctor that doesn't take us seriously, it's time to get a new one,

rather than just " follow Doctor's orders " ..

>

>Statins have been shown to help a lot of people and prevent cardio events. My

opinion is that the lowest dose possible be used along with other lifestyle

changes, supplements etc. to get to ones goal I think there is a LARGE amount

of people who are taking them that shouldn't be nor need to me. Anyway, I'm done

ranting. Sorry for the long tirade.

> Re: Re: How Much Were You Taking???/My

Doctor

>

>

> Thanks for the tip! I'd searched before but hadn't found any source that

didn't charge for the information. I just checked him out on the state medical

board's web site and it shows no disciplinary action against him. So I'm still

baffled. Since he's only 36, you'd think he'd want to hang onto his greatest

asset--his very busy practice. Obviously there was some very compelling reason

for him to sell. There is the possibility of course that there's litigation in

progress, which I'd think could take months or even years to work its way

through the legal system. The medical board's report doesn't include any pending

litigation.

>

> wildcats_of_blue wrote:

>

> Indeed, it sounds fishy. If you are in the USA:

> You can check your physician's background and license status to see

> if there are any complaints filed.

>

> Try searching on " <Your State> medical board " in Google

> or " Practitioner Profile " . Each state has some type of reporting

> system. Most are self reporting, but they are supposed to report

> legal actions taken against them or report board final

> disciplinary action taken against them.

>

> Or go right to the AMA:

> AMA - Reporting ethical violations

> http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/2509.html

> From this page you select your state.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>